Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Why do pedestal poppers exist?

This is topic Why do pedestal poppers exist? in forum Ground Level at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=002553

Posted by Dominic Espinosa (Member # 2122) on 12-14-2011, 09:44 PM:

Seriously.

I've never been a huge fan of Cretors but we've got these pedestal units of theirs and they SUCK.
Constantly with the breaking!

The Gold Medals with suspended kettles at our other locations NEVER break down unless they're mishandled (submerged electrical) or neglected (salt/oil grime eating up lid bolts).

I mean really, it's the design. The pin and clip design of the lid is a joke.
The oil tube (I understand now they come with a closed-delivery instead of a tube pointed at the lid) always coming loose and spraying everywhere.
The kettle hinge wearing out the insulating plate and burning up the contacts. etc.
Let's not mention the grease mess INSIDE where all the guts are because of the aforementioned oil tub that no operator ever considers TIGHTENING!

Yarg!

end rant...

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 12-14-2011, 10:02 PM:

Welcome to the world of the CRETOR's Diplomat units ... they're not as bad as the Presidents...NOT by a long shot.

Diplomats are a breeze to work on while the Presidents, you would need to go to school to work on them.

But, a "plus 10" on the Gold Medals ... BUT, take off the long cover for the bin warmer from time to time to clean out the month old popcorn that never escapes from there .. along with the blower...and I hated that flippin' beeper when it's time to dump the kettle.

But, sad to say "Dom", that you never have worked with a Manley popper ... these units walks all over both above since, with that cast aluminum kettle they used, these units could pop the corn to perfection.

Posted by Steven J Hart (Member # 2340) on 12-14-2011, 10:24 PM:

Monte, Agreed on the Manley corn quality. We used one at my theater for many years but had to go to a Gold Medal when the agitator cable broke and could not find anything to replace it (said cable) with. Ours was a floor standing unit and I loved the hopper style floor of the holding bin that funneled the un-popped kernels and small pieces through the screen.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 12-14-2011, 10:58 PM:

We had a Manley here too, and retired it for the same reason....couldn't find parts anymore. It made great corn but it was just too much work to keep it running.

Posted by Dominic Espinosa (Member # 2122) on 12-15-2011, 12:10 AM:

How complex are the parts?
couldn't a machine shop fabricate something?

Posted by Jason Raftery (Member # 6291) on 12-15-2011, 12:40 AM:

There's a ~ 10 year old Cretors Twin Diplomat at my workplace and I concur with everything Dom said. The design of the electrical connections / harness in the hinge is poor at best. Alignment issues abound. The kettles themselves have been replaced several times due to corrosion and metal fatigue. All that and the popcorn goes stale in this unit quickly.

If someone reading this has a service manual or schematics / parts lists for the Cretors Diplomat line, can you forward them to Brad for inclusion into the warehouse? There are numerous manuals for Gold Medal but nothing for Cretors in there....

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 12-15-2011, 03:47 AM:

There's a Drive-In in my area that still has a fully functioning Manley popper..the "Cascading" popper unit. This is the original popper installed when the place opened in 1953. At a small theatre up in Grangeville, Id, also has a fully functioning Manley popper in excellent condition..also the 'cascading' type.

................................................................

Thing with aligning the Diplomat kettle to the stir shaft is: to remove the 6, 7/16" bolts under the pan, undo those three small screws on the side next to the cable boss to remove the shaft input cover and remove the pan.

Flip the kettle over and you see two brackets that are locked down by allen head bolts in which these two brackets locks the kettle to the pivot rod.

You loosen these allens so the kettle will pivot on the shaft making it easy to align the stir shaft to the agitator in the kettle.

When you get that all aligned, you lock down those allen bolts and reverse the order to put the pan back on.

My big issues have been with any Cretors units is the wiring from kettle to 't-stat' along with the fibreglass covered nichrome wire harnesses from the main connection boss to the kettle. Wire won't break, but the fibreglass covering gets so hot that it goes brittle and falls off around the wiring and gradually, the wiring will love to find metal and will short to chassis blowing the double breaker in the panel if it didn't throw the 40A switch on the popper itself.

Older Presidents uses the "fingers" and collector collar to transfer current from base to kettle, where the newer units were direct hardwired.

Motors can be hell also since oil loves to leak from the pan center and goo things up horribly... and changing out the motor requires tons of patience since you got that adaptive stir collar on the motor itself which has a snap ring that has to be on a certain way to get it off .. and putting it back on is a super trip and a half.

Then we got the kettle themselves: the PR32EDNG "President" - the stir shaft and agitator MUST come out each day and be cleaned of carbon buildup. Otherwise, you'll never get that shaft out..and when that shaft freezes up due to hardened carbon in the pan center stud..good luck cutting all of that out.

Big downside of the Cretors is the heat rings. If you boil your kettle out on a routine basis, you notice the 'bubble rings' which shows how the popcorn is actually being cooked - in the heat of the rings since the kettle isn't being heated evenly (which was the big plus side for the Manley and using cast aluminum)

Gold Medal wins here with the heat coil system that criss-crosses across the bottom of the kettle making the heat be more evenly distributed across the bottom of the kettle and no cold sections between rings as does with the Cretors.

Good luck - Monte

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 12-17-2011, 02:19 PM:

The advantage of the Cretors is the quick recycle time compared to the Gold Medal.

Any Cretors that has electrical rings in the hinge is very old and long overdue for repair. They have not made machines or parts that way for more than a decade. (President-style) Louis