Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Dead Body Found in Cinemark Bathroom!

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Posted by Michael Putlack (Member # 6523) on 01-16-2012, 12:05 PM:

If my theatre can boast of anything, it is our lack of decomposing bodies in our bathroom. The Cinemark in town can't make the same claim.

The Denver Channel

quote:
Missing Man's Body Found In Theater Restroom After 5 Days

Family, Police Were Searching For Missing Man, Who Died Of Heart Attack

Alan Gathright, 7NEWS Content Producer

FORT COLLINS, Colo. -- The decomposing body of a missing Loveland man was found in a locked restroom at a movie theater in Fort Collins after five days.

The body of George DeGrazio, 66, who had died of a heart attack, somehow went unnoticed for days, slumped in the locked family restroom room at the Cinemark Fort Collins 16, at 4721 S. Timberline Drive, authorities said.

Theater employees noticing a bad odor made the gruesome discovery Saturday afternoon after forcing their way into the restroom.

"The theater employees noticed the smell and they reported it to the managers. And the managers eventually broke the lock and found him," Larimer County Deputy Coroner James MacNaughton told 7NEWS on Sunday.

Family members want to know why employees didn't check the theater top-to-bottom after police searched the area, asking businesses if they'd seen the missing man.

DeGrazio's family had reported him missing on Jan. 9. Fort Collins police found the man's red Nissan Xterra parked in the Cinemark parking lot early Wednesday morning. Police searched the area, but could not find the man.

"If I had the police department saying somebody disappeared in this area and we're trying to locate him, I would be searching every nook and cranny of my establishment," said Dylan DeGrazio, the dead man's son.

"But that didn't happen."

Dylan DeGrazio said he wasn't upset about how his father died. A Sunday autopsy showed he died from natural causes, a heart attack caused by severe coronary artery disease, the coroner said.

But the son is disturbed by how his father's body was found after decomposing in a public restroom for days.

"I picture him just sitting there in this, like, slumped over, eyes open position," Dylan DeGrazio told 7NEWS reporter Amanda Kost on Sunday night.

"That's just the sheer reality of it. For somebody who didn't know George, that is just a corpse rotting in a bathroom, and that disgusts me. That disgusts me," he said.

7NEWS called the theater and were referred to Cinemark's corporate offices. We did not receive a comment from Cinemark on Sunday night.

Dylan DeGrazio said he's hoping his family can find closure, now that his father's body has been found.

"We know where he was, we know what happened and now we can begin to move forward a little bit," he said.

He said the family is trying to focus on how his father lived, rather than how he was found.

"I have faith that he’s in a better place. I know he’s in a better place. We’ll still always have good memories of him, the good ones," he said.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-16-2012, 01:14 PM:

They didn't even go in to clean that restroom for FIVE DAYS!!?

Wow, Joe is right: the theatres in Denver really do suck!

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 01-16-2012, 01:23 PM:

I'm amazed that nobody checks them after closing time. Even if they aren't planning to do any cleaning, who's to say that a bum or a burglar hasn't moved in and is waiting for the lights to go off to rob or trash the place.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-16-2012, 01:39 PM:

quote:
the theatres in Denver really do suck!

More like the managers in Denver really do suck - not doing building walkthroughs..

..another "black eye" for a big box circuit.

Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 01-16-2012, 01:42 PM:

I just don't see the logic in this. Who doesn't check a bathroom for 5 days?! Even the overnight custodial staff missed it?

I guess they aren't going to get a good audit score this year...

AJG

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 01-16-2012, 02:27 PM:

What kind of bathroom was this? With them talking about a locked door and all, I have to wonder if it wasn't some kind of private, single toilet bathroom typically meant only for use by employees.

I would be really shocked if the man had died in a regular theater bathroom with multiple toilet stalls. If the guy had been decomposing in a regular stall for 5 days that would be a black eye to both the theater staff and visiting customers not noticing it for that long.

He had to be in one of those small, single occupant bathrooms. Still, it's pretty bad for even one of those things not to be checked for days until someone noticed the smell.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-16-2012, 02:33 PM:

It says "family bathroom" in the article. So I think it was one of those single-user unisex bathrooms meant for changing a baby -- also maybe handicap accessible.

Posted by Michael Putlack (Member # 6523) on 01-16-2012, 02:39 PM:

If you watch the video on the webpage it shows the "hidden camera" shots the news crew took from inside the theatre, and it is a single occupancy "family" bathroom. I also like how nobody had a key and they had to break the lock.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 01-16-2012, 02:49 PM:

Kind of raises "self service" to a whole new level doesn't it? Louis

Posted by Sam Graham (Member # 2889) on 01-16-2012, 04:51 PM:

I used to go to that Cinemark fairly regularly, and their presentations were equally ignorant. General maintenance was also bad. Really poorly run place.

Haven't been there since they converted to digital, though.

Posted by Joshua Waaland (Member # 287) on 01-16-2012, 06:19 PM:

I have a feeling that the manager of that Cinemark has some "splainin to do". One for not having a key to the door, two for not cleaning the bathroom for five days, and three for not doing a walk through of the theater every night to make sure it is secure. [Eek!]

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 01-16-2012, 07:14 PM:

The only thing I can think of are the handicapped bathrooms we had at Mann's Kipling Place 6 (now owned by Elvis). They were single bathrooms that would lock from the inside. The theater was built by General Cinema. Still, these things were checked at closing every single day AND they were cleaned/restocked by the janitorial staff.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-16-2012, 09:34 PM:

Mega lawsuit gonna happen with this one against CineMark - total neglience...

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-16-2012, 10:26 PM:

Yeah, the newspaper seems to have left out part of the quote... after this:

quote:
"I have faith that he’s in a better place. I know he’s in a better place. We’ll still always have good memories of him, the good ones,"

...the guy probably said, "Plus, we are going to be SUPER rich and that'll make us feel a lot better."

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 01-17-2012, 12:45 AM:

Plus he got to occupy "his seat" a lot longer thsn anyone else ever did at a cinema. Louias

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-17-2012, 12:47 AM:

quote: Louis Bornwasser
Plus he got to occupy "his seat" a lot longer thsn anyone else ever did at a cinema.

Well of course. After all it is "the best seat in town!" [Razz]

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 01-17-2012, 01:23 AM:

It's common for old guys to die on the shitter.

They drink and smoke too much. They eat shitty diets that cause constipation.

Their hearts are bad enough to begin with but when they strain on the pot, trying to squeeze out last night's steak dinner their coronary arteries go, "Pop!"

This happens so often that several guys I know who are on ambulance crews call this "The Elvis Position."

As bad as this is for the theater, it's not all their fault.
If half the pimple-faced employees of movie theaters couldn't find their ass with either hand, how do you expect them to find anything else?

Besides, the cops couldn't find him either.
If I was the police chief of that town, I'd be trying to shift as much of the blame off my department and onto somebody else as much as possible.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-17-2012, 03:13 AM:

Not the theatre's fault of his death, nor the employees as what Randy said, but the one in charge of the theatre for not conducting proper operational training is gonna get it.

But the family of that father isn't done yet...

Posted by Melanie Loggins (Member # 6454) on 01-17-2012, 12:44 PM:

Makes me think of Clerks.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 01-17-2012, 01:59 PM:

I do not know if the unfortunate incident was reported in your local newspapers but the Honolulu Star Advertiser reported it this morning on page A-5. The town in Colorado was mentioned but the theatre was not.

-Claude

Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 01-17-2012, 06:32 PM:

This was on NBC news tonight. I imagine that heads will roll.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 01-17-2012, 08:34 PM:

Geez, alot a noise about...well, I won't say nothing, but certainly in the scheme of things, not all that off-the-wall. Yah, the question could be asked, why they didn't open that bathroom for cleaning, but I think Randy answered that pretty succinctly, and with his usual, insightful panache! BUT...let's be real -- that oversight didn't CAUSE the guy's heart attack, nor his demise....he wasn't accidently locked into some storage room for a week and died because of it, clawing at the door trying to excape. The cleaning oversight didn't exascebate his death, and finding him the next day or five days later changed nothing, except perhaps his body odor.

And yah, it sounds like this son is not only grieving, but also is mentally ticking away in the back of his mind the possibility of a hefty lawsuit he knows he and his lawyer will file...makin some easy money on dad's toilet bowl adventure.

As for the police, they are fine. A report comes in of a missing person but since there was no reason to believe there is foul play, they just go around asking citizens if they saw the guy, they asked the theatre personnel if he was in the theatre. They said no. That's about it. The police are not going to personally check every room attic to basement in the theatre or the surrounding buildings or break out the sniffing dogs and Swat Team in such a case. They just ask appropriate questions, give out their contact card and tell people to call if they see anything. This isn't a kidnapping case of a toddler where they found blood in the crib. This is exactly what they do for healthy, non-alzheimer's adult missing persons.

But of course the media will blow it all out of proportions because the story is a little grizzly, and if you haven't noticed, The News LOVES grizzly!

Posted by Dominic Espinosa (Member # 2122) on 01-17-2012, 08:49 PM:

I don't know why but I am honestly surprised that a big theater run by a big chain would suffer from such an "oversight" on the part of the theater manager.

Forget about the fact the guy was rotting in the john for 5 days.
Not walking through the building, as was pointed out earlier in this thread, is just asking for trouble from bums, criminals, and mischievous patrons alike.

Shame on all of them including the janitors for not questioning a restroom door that's locked for more than a few minutes during the business day.

Who's going to want to patronize that theater? I wouldn't. Hell no. If their level of concern for the cleanliness and safety of themselves and the building is so low they clearly have no care for me and my safety let alone the quality of my experience as a customer.

End rant

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 01-17-2012, 09:11 PM:

Yah but Dominic, those are two different issues. I admit it will bad publicity for awhile (especially that it hit the national news) maybe even bad for the entire chain, but stuff like that blows over faster than you think. They carried a report here about Dominios having two dozen rats jumping out of their basement hatch and romping around in their garbage which they left in uncovered bags in front of the store. Sure the publicity hurt then, but people have short memories. People still pile into that exact establishment. People will still take Carnival ocean cruses dispite that image of a liner nearly submerged and the people bobbing like apples in freezing water; people still fly Jet Blue even after over 100 of them were stranded, imprisoned in a Jet Blue plane on the tarmac with no water, no food, no BATHROOMS for more than 7 hours....and it happened MORE than once!

Listen, this theatre will send out a PR person and give a press release saying they are "committed" to Taken All Necessary Steps to correct the problems. But I ask, like what? Will they check the bathrooms every hour? What else can they do...they can't prevent people from dying on the crapper. But go back a year from now and they will have slacked off; it always happens. It's the nature of the human species if there isn't good management and leadership.

Anyway, that cleanliness issue has nothing to do with the severity or lack of severity of this guy's plight. He took a dump and kicked the bucket -- the theatre's lack of good operating procedures had nothing to do with it...didn't cause it, didn't quicken it. In short, there's no negligence with regard to his demise, unless of course they discover he died from rat poison that accidently got mixed in with the popcorn! And it wouldn't be hard to imagine such a scenario in that dive.

Now THAT would be a story!

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-17-2012, 09:22 PM:

quote: Dominic Espinosa
...they clearly have no care for me and my safety let alone the quality of my experience as a customer.

not a rant, but the truth: Patrons who enter ANY business ALWAYS feel like "am I safe here along with the quality of performance by the business's employees?"

I used to work at a discount 6plex that was a target by gangs.

The feeling of safety was a very high concern for all who attended there until one night, there was a scuffle between two "gang bangers" and the one suddenly left in a huffle, stormed outside and where that 'banger' spun around, pulled out a .32 and shot back with unloaded that gun into the theatre's lobby through the front door at that one he was scuffling with. that fellow wasn't hit, but bullets went into the wall, furniture and the floor.

Lobby had a few people standing around when the shooting took place and they went bezerk with fear. Got the police out there quick and they did apprehend the violater. word got around on that one quick and our business fell off real bad.

And when all of that turmoil disappared within a few months, our business was getting back up to normal until there was a parking lot shooting - once again by area gangs after someone else. They shot into the parking lot, hitting cars as they were leaving.

Once again, down went our business and the owner finally decided it was time for security to be hired ("duh!").

quote:
rat poison that accidently got mixed in with the popcorn!

..and I've tasted some of this theatre cooked food and wonder if the stuff IS laced with rat poison or similar...I refuse to consume theatre cooked products since the proper training in storing and handling such items are far from professional.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-17-2012, 11:04 PM:

quote:
the media will blow it all out of proportions because the story is a little grizzly, and if you haven't noticed, The News LOVES grizzly!

Not only that, Frank...the media LOVES bad news about the theatre business! I'll bet they are trying at this moment to figure out how they're going to work the lackluster boxoffice figures angle into their bathroom-death stories.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 01-17-2012, 11:26 PM:

I think you might be missing some of the bigger picture, Frank. No, the theater did not cause the death nor would finding him any sooner stand any chance of making him alive again, but it proves that the theater staff and management are all VERY inattentive to their own building. How did this man find the bathroom yet the staff could not? I can see it not being found until the end of the night or, at worst, the next morning, but FIVE DAYS? The incompetence there is inexcusable, though it does sound like both Randy and you are trying to drum up excuses for the theater staff. "They're irresponsible teenagers, so it's OK" is basically what you are implying. "Even the cops couldn't find him, so it's OK" is also what you're saying. Where exactly is this bathroom that it is even hidden from the po po? I'm guessing that they didn't even look. They probably just asked the staff/management "Have you seen a missing man? He looks like he is missing" and they replied in the negatory. Maybe they even showed them a photo, but I doubt they combed the theater.

Now the world knows how easy it is to sneak into a Cinemark and rob it. Go into a bathroom. Lock it. Wait until all the movies are out and the manager assumes everyone has left and sends the rest of the staff home. Then pop out and rob the manager. Or maybe just stay in there and slash all of the screens and engage in other vandalism in the middle of the night. Sure sounds easy to do at Cinemark.

I do not excuse irresponsibility just because someone is irresponsible.

Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 01-18-2012, 11:21 AM:

How could anyone not know there was a dead body in there? After 5 days you wouldn't be able to go in the restroom. Good lord bodies stink after 12 hours sometimes less. Death is a very distinctive smell and you can't mistake it for anything else.

Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 01-18-2012, 02:30 PM:

When I was the GM of my last theatre, a Regal 14 plex, we did a walk through of the building every day. Now, I do remember a time that someone locked the family restroom once. I remember we ended up calling a locksmith to get it open. I remember telling someone "If someone died in there, I don't want to find out later, let's get the damn door open now". Ironic.

I will also say that most of the big chains (especially) this time of year - cut their payroll to the bare minimum. So now you compound your problem even more - you had a bunch of unqualified people working for you - now you have half as many running around. So half the chance of them finding a dead body is cut by even more.

The lesson we should all take from this is - walk your damn building and check everything when you open and when you close.

Posted by Michael Putlack (Member # 6523) on 01-18-2012, 02:50 PM:

Five employees have been placed on administrative leave. I assume it is the building's managers because I know some of the managers and they're not responding to my texts.

I think that although a heart attack killed the guy, it might have been possible to save him if the staff checked the bathroom every hour or two. Maybe he was incapacitated on the floor for a few hours or overnight before he died? If he was found, the man could have gotten help. I think that the impending lawsuit will probably focus on that. It wasn't their fault he had a heart attack, but it might be their fault that he died from it.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 01-18-2012, 04:38 PM:

All of the suspended employees were managers who worked over the course of those 5 days. Ultimately it is management who is responsible for their building.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 01-19-2012, 02:41 PM:

Dennis: YOU would never run a theatre that way. . . . because you had excellent teachers and have good habits. Not to be an old "in-my-day" guy, but the infrastructure of instruction and caring is suffering mightily.

There are a few cinemas that I built and designed that I am glad I don't have to service anymore; their operations are disgusting. Likewise, the (few) excellent ones are a pleasure even if someone I know isn't the boss. Louis

Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 01-21-2012, 09:10 PM:

So what movie was he seeing?

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 01-21-2012, 09:34 PM:

Maybe this?

Or this...

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 01-21-2012, 10:16 PM:

quote: Michael Putlack
I think that although a heart attack killed the guy, it might have been possible to save him if the staff checked the bathroom every hour or two.

Not possible. If you don't get to a heart attack victim within five minutes of the event, the chances of saving him are somewhere between "fat chance" and "diddly squat." Even if you get to the guy in five minutes or less, your chances of saving him are a little more than 50-50. If you saw the guy go down, administered CPR (and did it correctly) until the ambulance crew arrived, your chances of saving him are pretty good.

But, let's say that you do check the bathrooms every hour. Your average chance of getting to any possible victim in less than five minutes is probably 1 in 12. (There are 12 five minute periods in an hour.) That's 8.3 percent.

This was an "Elvis Sigthing." The guy was practically dead before he even sat on the throne.

The only thing the theater did wrong was fail to check thoroughly enough.

Ask yourself this question... Is a teenage usher going to knock on the door of a public restroom? Most people have a phobia about public restrooms. Your average teenager is probably the most lutropublicaphobic of all.

So, when your average usher goes to check the bathrooms (assuming he actually does check) he's going to think, "I'm not knocking on that door when some old guy is in there, farting and stinking up the place!"

Then every other usher who comes on shift does the same thing but none of them talks to any of the others so nobody knows that the aforementioned "old guy" has been in there all day... for five days.

Don't get me wrong. This is bad. It's very bad.
But the son is just being a crybaby and the newspaper is just compounding the problem when they by giving him a public venue to cry in. The truth is that the newspaper is just taking advantage of the son's grief for their own profit.

I have had to pick up old, shitty, dead guys before. I have witnessed an Elvis Sighting. I was also the security guard on duty at a hotel when they found a guy, dead in his room who had been there for two days. The maid who came in to clean the room said she heard the guy snoring but it turns out he was already dead. The "snoring" she heard was actually the body, shall we say, "outgassing."

These things aren't fun but what the hell are you going to do? Guys die on the shitter all the time. You scoop up the shitty, old, dead guy and wheel him away. You Clorox the hell out of the bathroom. You burn the mattress and buy a new one.

Five days is quite a long time to leave a guy dead in a public bathroom but the bigger question is... "You mean to tell me that you don't clean your friggin' shitters for five days until they stink so bad you can't stand it?

Dead guy or not, that's no way to run a frickin' business!

Posted by John Hegel (Member # 628) on 01-21-2012, 10:38 PM:

You have to give the HVAC system designer props. Most public restrooms don't have enough ventilation to suck a fart out of them let alone the smell of a rotting body for the majority of 5 days.

Posted by Christopher Crouch (Member # 3784) on 01-22-2012, 05:35 AM:

While failing to notice a rotting corpse for five days is definitely on the extreme side of things, there are a lot of theatres out there (especially megaplexes) that have areas which go unchecked for significant periods of time. Lazy or complacent, people tend to slip in to routines, neglect duties (especially checking in on less used areas), and lose site of the whole picture. Most of the time, this manifests itself via maintenance issues; this just happened to result in a more dramatic outcome. I'm not excusing such a horrific lapse in work performance, just pointing out that it's not as far fetched as one might think.

I'm sure there will be a lot of chains (especially Cinemark) sending out reminders to conduct thorough walk throughs and enforcing checklists, in the wake of this. However, I'm just as sure many people will slip back in to their poor habits within a year.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 01-22-2012, 05:57 AM:

unbelievable. I was thinking the same that many of you pointed out. When I used to work as an usher, I used to check the theatre thouroughly at night, after the rails had been closed. I used to check between ALL the rows and all the toilets for anything.
5 days with a dead body in a bathroom only shows negligence.

Posted by Alan Plester (Member # 852) on 01-22-2012, 08:27 AM:

Yea gods, I really cant believe what i`m` reading here, when i was in the industry,after the last show, every row of seats was checked, in both screens, all rest rooms, looked into and doors
pushed open, all flights of stairs checked, ventilation room checked, just incase someone was hiding in it, it aint rocket science, just common sense..These guys need arses kiked big time.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 01-22-2012, 11:14 AM:

What we're seeing here is a lack of professionism; complacency. Louis

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-22-2012, 02:46 PM:

What I'm curious about is this restroom itself: Usually, bathroom hardware that locks from the inside can be easily unlocked from from the outside with either a screwdriver since the handle that has a slot for it, or an allen wrench that goes into a hole in the knob or handle to release the locking mechanism.

Did Cinemark actually use a deadbolt type of assembly for the door's locking capabilities, making the restroom a (xcuse the pun) a "death room" where outside availability is denied in case of emergency?

If not, then poor training (or, none at all) was practiced in this area for emergency training procedures..

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 01-22-2012, 04:19 PM:

I thought the same thing. There should have been a simple privacy lockset on that door and they shouldn't have had to call a locksmith or break the door to get in... Unless they are THAT stupid.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 01-22-2012, 04:44 PM:

Yeah, why not have a key on site for your own restrooms?

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 01-24-2012, 09:43 AM:

I would have installed a dead bolt with a key on the outside and a twist lock on the inside.

In case of out-of-order, you could lock off the room. Also, in case of death/suicide, you could get in quickly. As a family bathroom, it is not normally used. In an emergency, it could also serve as a secure room for celebrities, aa room for additional stock, or even a "money vault" for heavy weekends.

From what others have said here, I don't suppose this particular location is run well enough to have any problems with extra stock, too much money, or celebrities. Louis

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 01-24-2012, 10:46 AM:

Several years ago I was involved in an event where the Queen was coming and we had to install an entire separate special bathroom for her.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 01-24-2012, 06:05 PM:

quote:
They drink and smoke too much. They eat shitty diets that cause constipation.

Their hearts are bad enough to begin with but when they strain on the pot, trying to squeeze out last night's steak dinner their coronary arteries go, "Pop!"

Actually, what usually happens with older people dying on the shitter, doesn't usually have much to do with their coronary arteries. The Vagus Nerve goes to both your heart and your bowels. Using lots of strain to get rid of an impacted bowel can stimulate the nerve which in turn can cause heart irregularities.

Posted by Christopher Crouch (Member # 3784) on 01-25-2012, 06:16 AM:

quote: Joe Redifer
why not have a key on site for your own restrooms?

That is definitely a huge oversight. Beyond something as bizarre as someone dying, I would be concerned with the potential for a child locking themselves in the bathroom by accident; especially in the case of a family restroom.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 01-26-2012, 01:28 AM:

D E E E E C O M P!! [Big Grin]

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-28-2012, 11:11 PM:

I just want to add a suggestion to the cinemas out there that have elevators in their respective locations-to also prevent such unfortunate occurances as with the main topic:

Check for occupancy in them as well when securing your respective location at the end of the night.

Some elevator cars don't have glass doors or similar to see within from the outside, but are multipurpose type for cargo and patrons to use.

..just a tip to go forward with... - thx..Monte

Posted by Dominic Espinosa (Member # 2122) on 01-29-2012, 03:22 PM:

Good point, Monte.

Another good idea would be to test your emergency call button in there once in a while.

When I took over facility maintenance I tested the call button in the elevator at the one location equipped with one and the operator at the elevator company couldn't identify the location...Or operate the phone either as she hung up on us the first try. And we'd been open for 6 years in that building with the same service company.