Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Old Masonite Marquee Letters

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Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 04-12-2013, 12:19 PM:

Ok, all you alphabet experts!- -

Does anybody know if these old-syle masonite marquee letters are still
being made? These are from a theater that's over 100 years old.

A lot of their letters are cracked or the clips are broken and they'd
like to find some replacment letters, if available.

Yes, I know they should just buy a complete new set of letters, but I've
already been down that road with them and it's a 'dead end' at this time.

The letters are 10" high & made of painted masonite.

The mounting hardware spacing is 7".

And yes, I know there's some letters like this listed on e-bay right now,
but it's only a partial set, the letters are bigger, & the guy is asking a
LOT of money (in my opinion) & some of the letters appear to be
in worse condition than many of the ones I'm trying to find replacements for.

-jc-

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 04-12-2013, 01:02 PM:

No one makes any changeable letters like that anymore, at least not anything that is a stock item at any sign materials supply company.

Letters like that would have to be custom made. It could get really expensive for them if they want a significant number of letters and especially if they want the new letters to match the typeface of the old letters. That "B" doesn't look like it comes from any typeface that is available in a computer-based format. So all the letters would have to be re-created in digital form, which would be a time consuming process. Then the letters would have to be nested in a routing program and use up however many sheets of Masonite needed for the order. Cleaning up the letters, painting them and adding clips like those in the picture would use up a lot of time (and added labor costs).

Since the rail spacing is 7" they should try a slotted, injection molded plastic letter (Wagner Letters or Gemini Pronto Slotted Letters) to see if they will fit on the rails. If the existing sign rails aren't compatible with plastic slotted letters then they ought to change out the rails on the existing sign to make them compatible.

I know they're probably trying to save a lot of money, but believe me it will be cheaper for them to buy a new set of slotted letters than have a sign company make custom routed/painted Masonite letters that match the existing ones. The plastic slotted letters will hold up over time a lot better too. A 10" plastic slotted letter will run between $7 and $10. Letter for letter a lot more in labor and materials costs would go into creating custom 10" Masonite letters.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 04-12-2013, 02:11 PM:

Why not just make them?

Masonite, a saw, a router and paint. Fashion the hardware from coat hanger wire and sheet metal.

I know it's a lot of work but it would still be cheaper than buying new ones. You'll be ab e to get letters in the exact font by tracing the old ones.

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 04-12-2013, 04:05 PM:

Is masonite really the best material for letters that will be exposed to the weather? I realize that's what the existing letters are made of and they have lasted for a very long time, but any masonite I've ever had anything to do with would swell and disintegrate if it was exposed to water.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 04-12-2013, 05:41 PM:

I've seen drive-in screens made with 4'x8' masonite panels attached on 4x4 framework by zinc plated drywall screws and painted with street paint that has held up for years with no issues.

Posted by Donald Brown (Member # 5427) on 04-12-2013, 08:17 PM:

I spotted a set of Masonite letters on E-Bay that has been for sale for quite a long time. If my recollection is accurate, I believe that I found them listed under the category: drive-in theatre. If I am not mistaken, I think that the pieces were in Connecticut and that the listing is still active.

Don Brown

Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 04-12-2013, 11:41 PM:

I would have guessed that those were made by the theater's in-house sign shop.

Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 04-13-2013, 10:12 AM:

quote: Frank Cox
any masonite I've ever had anything to do with would swell
and disintegrate if it was exposed to water.

I agree with you, Frank.

I'm 99% sure they're masonite or some similar highly compressed material.

The letters seem to be fairly well 'sealed' by the paint on the front side,
and some sort of sealant on the back. However, once they get a crack or
other defect in the surface and water gets inside they begin to expand
and deteriorate, like a piece of wet cardboard.

Those clips on the back do a great job though!
We had a freak wind storm here a week ago with winds over 75mph in this
area, and not one of these letters blew off the sign, according to the owner.

Posted by Aleksandar Obradovic (Member # 7266) on 04-14-2013, 07:01 AM:

I know that you are looking for replacement letter and sorry for this interruption/"off topic" but why not to try with LED sign if you have founds?

Anyway you can utilize router/cutter (which is very cheap today) and cut-off those letters on your own from any material you wish any time you have need. Maybe you can do it for other cinemas too [Smile]

BR Alexander

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 04-15-2013, 09:01 AM:

quote: Frank Cox
Is masonite really the best material for letters that will be exposed to the weather?

No. Masonite should not be used as a material on any kind of permanent outdoor sign. It's really only good for temporary uses or as a material that will be covered by other materials.

Plastic letters are far better. They don't get damaged by moisture like Masonite. They're more durable. They're more professional looking.

There's nothing stopping a theater operator from hand cutting/routing his own Masonite letters. But how much is his time worth? Or how much will it cost him in labor to have an employee create the letter patterns, cut/rout those letters, sand them, paint them, attach the clips, etc.? Sheets of Masonite, clip hardware, sandpaper and paint all cost money too.

Unless the theater operator has a specific need to maintain a historical appearance with those letters, he's going to end up spending more money going that Masonite route. Really the only justification I could see in producing some home made Masonite letters is if the theater operator just had a lot of time on his hands and wanted to spend that time on a hobbyist sort of pursuit.

quote: Aleksandar Obradovic
I know that you are looking for replacement letter and sorry for this interruption/"off topic" but why not to try with LED sign if you have founds?

LED-based signs are great, but they're not within the budget for everyone. If a theater operator is looking to make some Masonite letters just to avoid the cost of buying a new set of slotted plastic letters chances are he doesn't have the budget for any kind of LED sign.

LED signs have big advantages: messages can be changed fast and often. You don't have to go outdoors in the weather to change the sign. One drawback: LED-based signs do not fit in very well with a vintage style sign -especially any LED board that is mainly just showing monochrome text like the reader boards in so many multiplex theaters. Plastic letters on rails work better in a vintage visual theme.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 04-15-2013, 12:07 PM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
Unless the theater operator has a specific need to maintain a historical appearance with those letters, he's going to end up spending more money going that Masonite route. Really the only justification I could see in producing some home made Masonite letters is if the theater operator just had a lot of time on his hands and wanted to spend that time on a hobbyist sort of pursuit.

I agree in principle. It all depends on how much the owner wants to do for himself versus how much he is willing to pay others to supply.

Assuming the letters are approx. 8" x 10", you could get 40 to 50 of them out of a 4' x 8' sheet of material. Almost enough for two complete sets. Consider that you won't need as many "Qs," "Js" or "Zs." Two or three sheets of material will give you enough to make all the letters you need.

$500 to $750 should buy enough material to do the job. Double that price to account for labor. $1,500 to $2,000 should do it. How much do you want to spend to do it yourself compared to buying ready-made signs?

Personally, I wouldn't mind doing a certain amount of work, myself, on weekends or days off but that's a personal decision. Weigh the cost of other solutions against how much time you are willing to spend to do it yourself.

Plastic sheet material might be a better choice than Masonite but would be more expensive.

You might be better off just to buy a new sign and be done with it.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-15-2013, 09:50 PM:

We have some letters here made out of masonite. I think they were probably jigsawed out by the theatre owner back in the day, they don't appear to be "manufactured." They're at least 40 years old and have been out in all kinds of weather. As long as they're kept painted they stand up....we keep a can of black spray paint in the basement to touch them up.

Maybe "old" masonite is better quality than new stuff, because I can certainly see where it could swell up and flake off with moisture.

Posted by Rex Oliver (Member # 7593) on 04-16-2013, 01:38 AM:

I just joined this forum-movies and theater operation have always interest me even though I work at a short wave transmitter plant.I have been looking at these forums for some time now and decided to try joining in.
The project of masonite letter for a letter board-I was assigned to a this sort of project in vocational high school shop class-that is a good way for a someone to have letters made if they don't have the tools or labor.The client supplied us with several sheets of exterior hardboard and old letters to use as patterns.Me and another guy were busy for several days on the bandsaw and jigsaw cutting out letters-we salvaged hardware from the old ones so he could hang our new letters on his sign board.He had us cut the letters-the client painted them.Can't remember if that was for a movie theater or some other place.It was fun doing the work.This was in Rapid Ciry,South Dakota-back in like 1970.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 04-16-2013, 07:37 AM:

Short wave transmitter plant? You operate or build them? My former circuit designer built the VOA transmitters for Rockwell in Texas.

In the 1970s there was a small company owned by an old man who supplied the masonite letters. I am certain he is either dead or over 110 years old. I purchased 10's of thousands of the hardware sets.

Digital proves that theatres have more money than we thought; just buy a couple of sets of new letters!

Posted by Rex Oliver (Member # 7593) on 04-17-2013, 02:38 AM:

Louis:
Yes,I work at the remaining US VOA SW transmitter site.Operate,repair,maintain these rigs.A project is coming up to replace the 2n IPA and PA coils in our GE tranmitters.Due to budget and sequestering-3 transmitters are temporarily out of service-these are Continental Electronics 420A rigs that are 60+ yrs old.They have Doherty RF power amplifiers-and can generate 250/500Kw power out.To run these old rigs is a considerable expense.Most parts are NLA-a local machine shop makes them for us.Continental Electronics no longer supports 420A SW transmitters.Programming is run on 3 250KW GE transmitters built in 1962-1963 was when the Greenville Edward Murrow site was dedicated.VOA has cut back lots of their SW broadcasting becuase they are finding listners are using other formats to receive VOA programs-local AM,FM,internet,Cell phone.We run the Continental transmitters monthly to keep gas out of the tubes and vacuum capacitors.Continental Electronics has been a major transmtter supplier to VOA.Before working at the transmitter site in Greenville-worked in the Wash DC studio plant.The Greenville site runs Radio Marti broadcasts to Cuba,VOA broadcasts to Africa and South America.I enjoy this job-just wnat to continue.Well,guess wether the theater is digital or analog-they will always need letters for sign boards-same with other places.Out here at the site--we could cut the letters from aluminum-we have MANY 4x8' panels of aluminum here.Don't think that was the purpose for the metal sheets-they are needed for many other jobs here.

Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 04-17-2013, 09:59 AM:

For a couple of letters, I would say making new letters from masonite would be the way to go. You can trace the old letter, so it will be an exact match, and if the hangers are able to be salvaged, an hour or two of work for a few letters is time well spent.

Masonite isn't the best material, but if properly sealed and maintained, it would seem that it holds up pretty well.

Working with a local high school or trade school to have a class do up a bunch of letters would be a good business-community project, and it would give the students a chance to invest their time into a local business and see the results of their handiwork. Personal pride can go a long way, especially with a community-dependent operation like most drive-ins are.

In the other direction, how cool would it be to have an LED sign that was done in such a way to mimic the look of a vintage sign? I'm not talking the plastic sheet letters, but this kind of vintage letter-hanging-on-a-rail look. I would imagine an LED sign capable of decent resolution and dot-pitch could get pretty pricey...

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 04-17-2013, 02:59 PM:

Small ones are $55k per side. (good idea, though.) Louis

Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 04-22-2013, 04:59 PM:

So, if a theater wanted a sign like the El Capitan's, it would cost a few bucks? [Smile]

Even if it did, I think such a sign would make one heck of a first impression!

Given the number of small theaters shooting themselves in the foot by using really awful letter signs (I've seen more of those quasi-portable arrow letter signs than I would ever have thought existed in use), one wonders how much business is affected by such things.

I guess I'll just chalk signage up on the list of things I'd want for a theater that I owned that make seasoned managers/owners shake their heads with wonder at my naivete...