This is topic Coca-Cola FREESTYLE...the future of bad soda in forum Ground Level at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-01-2013, 05:26 PM:
 
I would just like to take this opportunity to point out a few things.

First, Pepsi sucks. It always has and it always will. This isn't just a matter of personal taste. I will back that statement up by saying to look at various restaurants. The restaurants which have achieved major success are all serving Coke products. (The Kentucky Taco Hut doesn't count, as their parent company is Pepsi.) Likewise, the smaller operations including the mom and pop restaurants that serve Coke (with very rare exception) have quality food. Similarly, restaurants serving Pepsi typically have chosen Pepsi as a means to cut their costs, and they do the same thing with every other aspect of their operation including the quality of their food ingredients and preparation.

Pepsi is a warning sign. It means the establishment you are walking into puts their profit over quality all around since Pepsi is cheaper. Pay attention as you go out and choose places to get dinner. You WILL see that this is a bankable thing.

(Yes there are exceptions here and there for various reasons, but the above statements are easily more than 90% accurate.)

Putting Pepsi aside for a moment, Coke now has these damned "Freestyle" machines out now, and I've started seeing them in theaters and places that I used to patronize. I don't anymore. When I see a Freestyle machine, I know the drink will taste like ass water (moreso than even Pepsi) and I simply refuse to patronize that establishment. Ask anyone who knows me.

Pepsi = I walk
Freestyle = I walk

Coke has had these stupid things out for a few years now and STILL haven't figured out how to make them taste like Coke products!

If anyone is considering putting these bastardized machines into their theater, please actually stop for a moment and TASTE them! I'm finding more and more people like me who will walk away from a Freestyle machine. People ARE starting to notice. Don't lose customers just because you got brainwashed by some jackass Coke salesman telling you that it will benefit your company from a marketing perspective. It won't. It will just teach people not to buy the large on their next trip.

On a similar rant, do not sell plastic cups. Any and ALL plastic cups destroy the taste. Stick to styrofoam (preferably), wax or glass cups only.

Also don't use high-speed nozzles. The brix is impossible to get right and the time spent waiting for the foam to go down takes longer in the end to dispense. (Never pour the foam off or you have just screwed up the brix.)

Similarly the ice bin is there for a reason, to chill the lines. If your theater can't operate with a counter electric dispenser, don't EVER let your staff let the ice bin get lower than halfway or you WILL be serving a poor product.

Likewise the ice should be NO LESS THAN 2/3 of the cup before you fill it. This number varies up to 3/4 depending on the type of ice your ice machine produces and the type of cup you use, but NEVER pour a drink without starting at the 2/3rd level or higher unless a customer without taste buds specifically requests it. Pouring with less ice will knock the carbonation off and kill the quality.

Putting forth a little extra attention to design, calibration and training on things like this WILL make you more money. Case in point back when I was managing for UA I took a small 8 plex and made it #1 in the entire UA chain on per caps. That attention to quality in the concession (and of course the booth too) also brought that little theater which was doing decent business to a status of selling out 7 out of 8 auditoriums virtually every weekend. All you have to do is put a little extra effort into closely monitoring the quality of the products you are serving.

And if anyone ever sees this guy in person, please give him a swift kick to the balls for inventing that Freestyle abortion. Once he is down, please kick him again for me. His crappy machine coupled with Coke's brain-dead marketing department are on the path to kill their own product and they don't even realize it yet because they failed to put QUALITY as #1 priority.

-
 
Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 09-01-2013, 05:47 PM:
 
The best solution for selling quality soft drinks is to sell premix, not postmix. It costs more and it's a lot foamier, but it's a much better tasting product.

Unfortunately for those who like Coke, premix Coke is no longer available. (At least, it isn't around here.)

Most places around here have Pepsi, anyway. I think I told you folks before about my experience when I first set up my theatre. I wrote a letter to Coke and to Pepsi saying that I'm opening a theatre, come and see me. The Pepsi salesman was ringing my doorbell two days after I sent the letter. The Coke salesman showed up FIVE YEARS later.
 
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-01-2013, 05:59 PM:
 
Agreed, premix is the best, but it's all but dead these days.

No surprise on the Pepsi salesman, Frank. That's because Pepsi is desperate for anyone who will put their product into their store. Coke knows they have the product and that they don't have to try very hard. Plus for some reason Coke doesn't seem to care about Canada.

Still though, when the Coke guy knocked on your door, did you switch or did you hold a grudge?
 
Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 09-01-2013, 06:15 PM:
 
I once wrote a business plan for an eight screen theatre and RC Cola was the brand we were going to use.

I later sold the business plan to a company (located in Texas) and I noticed they were selling coke products at the location they opened.

At the time, I was anti-Pepsi and anti-Coke.
 
Posted by Pravin Ratnam (Member # 1417) on 09-01-2013, 07:12 PM:
 
I like the freestyle machines. BUt yes, the taste is not hte greatest. My suggestions
1) Always have a fountain option for the most popular drinks because that can take away the burden of serving so many customers quickly. Disable those flavors in the freestyle machine.
2) Maybe they finetune the freestyles in have a quick rinse of the spigot. Sti;l; won't be perfect. But it is a great side thing to have. Now I agree, it kind of sucks as the main dispenser once the novetly wears off.

I don't see why we can't have the best of both worlds. Freestyle for the sizable minority that wants to try out different drinks. And the fountains for the more popular ones.
 
Posted by Tony Ratcliff (Member # 1196) on 09-01-2013, 07:32 PM:
 
I totally agree about the Freestyle. I thought it was just me that thinks it tastes nasty and nothing like Coke.

About Coke vs Pepsi. We had Coke for many years because I agree it tastes better in fountain. BUT, after suffering through years of constant price hikes, non-existent customer service from my sales rep, and finally a refusal to replace my broken down 20 year old fountain machines, Pepsi walked in the door. I got a 1/3 drop in price, brand new machines ( ungraded to 8 heads per ) , nor more COD, order drop off using a key so I don't have to be there, on-line bill pay, and same-day repair service that actually repairs the issues ( which there have been few ).

So I think maybe it is a regional thing on who is the best.

I think the BEST would be to be able to have BOTH Coke and Pepsi, so I could serve Coke, Diet Coke and Mountain Dew.

OR if I could get Coke with Pepsi's prices and service level.
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 09-01-2013, 11:19 PM:
 
I will agree that the Freestyle machines are an abomination, but fountain soda is probably only really good about a third of the time anyway. Either there's not enough ice -- no wait, there's NEVER enough ice -- or the drink is flat, or the brix is off. Sometimes all three or at least two. The worst thing is, a theater concession employee has no control over anything -- they're told exactly how much ice to put in, which is almost never enough. They can't adjust the brix, obviously. And if the CO2 runs out, they haven't got a clue how to change it -- that's the day manager's job and sorry, he's gone home for the night.

quote: Brad Miller
Pepsi is desperate for anyone who will put their product into their store. Coke knows they have the product and that they don't have to try very hard.
That's gotta be the worst justification for poor customer service I ever heard.

This town is a Pepsi town, hands down. Every restaurant in this town sells Pepsi fountain products, and one of the local bars even uses Pepsi in its drinks. Maybe it's a regional thing, I don't know, but taste aside, I think it's mostly attributed to Coke's crappy service. We used to have a Coke machine (cans) at our parts store -- but we switched to Pepsi years ago, because Coke couldn't be bothered to keep our machine filled. Pepsi shows up every week without fail.

Our favorite restaurant, Fitzgeralds, has both Pepsi and Coke fountain machines, and the owner there tells me that Pepsi outsells Coke.

There was one "holdout" restaurant, a sandwich shop, but they finally switched to Pepsi last spring -- the icemaker built into their Coke machine broke down, Coke dragged its feet for months and then finally said they would repair the icemaker "this time," but in the future they would be responsible for their own repairs. Pepsi offered them a new icemaker machine with service included, a new floor cooler for bottled product and (of course) all new signage.

At the Roxy we started off selling Coke products, but in 1980 we decided to try Pepsi along with Coke because we had a lot of requests for it. Within two months Pepsi was out-selling Coke by a wide margin every day. So we finally just switched over. (We do carry some Coke 16-ouncers for those Coke fans, so we cover both bases.)

Our experience with Pepsi has been exemplary for over 30 years even though we're not exactly a big customer of theirs. I've never once had any kind of complaint about them. When we did a concession remodel and unexpectedly had to have the Pepsi machine removed and reinstalled, they sent a crew from Billings out to do it on a half day's notice. A few months ago when I screwed up and forgot to order a couple cases of cups (and we were on the verge of running out), our rep drove 160 miles round trip to bring those cups to us. Last summer when one of our spigots started to malfunction, the repair guy came in the front door within TWO MINUTES of me calling him. (We got lucky on that last one...he was already in town on another job. But still...none of this "we can't come until we get a written work order" nonsense.)
 
Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 09-01-2013, 11:44 PM:
 
I prefer Pepsi over Coke any day of the week and twice on Sunday. If the theater serves Coke I usually have a Pepsi bottle in my pocket or I buy fruit punch or root beer or something else. I will drink Coke if I have to, but prefer not to.

I'm tempted to try the free style. Since all of you coke fans say it sucks, it may actually taste good to me. [Smile]
 
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-01-2013, 11:51 PM:
 
Interesting that EVERYONE who has posted about the Freestyle machines so far has agreed they taste awful. [Big Grin]

All good reasons Mike. Clearly the regional Coke office is awful beyond words there, but I can assure you most towns (and of course businesses with more than one location) get Coke's attention and good service. That doesn't make it right, but it is what it is. There is one thing that really caught my eye in your post though.

quote: Mike Blakesley
We do carry some Coke 16-ouncers for those Coke fans, so we cover both bases.
Beside your obvious reasons for serving Pepsi instead of Coke, that statement shows you care and make an extra effort to excel at what you do. [thumbsup]

By the way, a tip for anyone at the Dallas/Fort Worth airport or other airports where Pepsi went and bought the place out in a desperate attempt to force-sell their crap. Think about it, an airport is LITERALLY a "captive group of consumers" and there is no escape...or is there?

What to do? Go to McDonald's. Yes, there I said it. Go to McDonald's! They took a stand and refuse to serve Pepsi regardless of any property deals greasing the airport executive's pocketbook.

Know who else took at stand against the Pepsi bullying? American Airlines. You can get it at their Admiral's Club, and DFW airport is the central hub for AA too, yet AA told them where to stick it.

Guess where I eat at the DFW airport and guess which airline I patronize.
 
Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 09-01-2013, 11:55 PM:
 
My big issue is the touchscreen ... not the greatest for the unit.

Then, the ice delivery behind the nozzle is a joke in itself.

You put one of these in the lobby, the sales line will definitely slow down due to one customer per drink.

Good for restaurants (like Fuddruckers who has them) but not for high speed concession lines.

Oh, I did have a Raspberry Coke and it wasn't too bad, but the Lime Coke wasn't it in a long shot.
 
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 09-02-2013, 12:37 AM:
 
WTF is Coke® Freestyle? Is that the machine with, like 101 flavors or some nonsense like that? Where is everything stored? That little white machine can't hold enough beverages, much less 101 different kinds of them. I would Google it and learn on my own but I am lazy.
 
Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 09-02-2013, 12:59 AM:
 
Joe, it is a touchscreen operated dispenser that offers up several flavors of Coke® products. From what I saw of one opened for servicing, it has many "cartridges" of what I would imagine to be super-concentrated syrups to make the drinks with. And as you would say, it tastes like ass. [Big Grin] (I prefer Pepsi® myself but don't mind a properly brix'd and served fountain Coke®. )

Here's what the Freestyle machine looks like:

-
 
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 09-02-2013, 01:09 AM:
 
Thanks, Tony. I also found a picture that showed the red machine just sitting there tucked away next to a wall in a theater. It looks like something that I'd completely ignore and not even register in my brain as I walked by. It looks like a kiosk and kiosks usually only do stupid and useless things, so I tend to ignore them. Unless that kiosk is a Red Box. Then I make Jen go use it. I also ignored bulk candy displays at UA theaters (and other chains if they had such things).

Do any theaters have a Red Box inside them yet? They should.
 
Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 09-02-2013, 01:14 AM:
 
You're welcome. [Smile] I wanted to ignore it too, but at the burger place I was at (they make AWESOME burgers) that abortion was the ONLY way to get ANY drink, even ice water.

I can tell the nozzle is not rinsed between flavors, as even the ice water had residual taste of the drink before mine.

Horrible concept, but the little kids seem to love it.
 
Posted by Jarod Reddig (Member # 6363) on 09-02-2013, 02:39 AM:
 
It does seem to be a kids thing. When I was little I use to mix different flavors at the fountains. We called it a bomb when we mixed all flavors. Anyways the Freestyle machines are a joke and do taste like shit. They have an effect of always tasting like the mix is off. The residual s left from each flavor is also a big factor of weird taste as said. Im a huge Coke fan too but I don't mind Pepsi and will drink it if there's no Coke. Coke WTF are you thinking screwing up your product?
 
Posted by Edward Havens (Member # 4715) on 09-02-2013, 04:16 AM:
 
I don't mind the Freestyle units. I do mind when someone who has a Freestyle unit doesn't use it to its full potential. I still have yet to find a business with a Freestyle unit using the Seagram's Ginger Ale flavors that are available.
 
Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 09-02-2013, 06:56 AM:
 
I am on the same page as Tony. Yes it is a super concentrate, using drug making technology; super accurate. Calls out when carts are empty and reorders new ones, could notify manager on the cell phone.

You guys do know the General Cinema/Pepsi connection don't you? I don't know all the details, but as i understand it, there would be no Pepsi without General cinema. perhaps that is why service is so good. Louis
 
Posted by Mark Lensenmayer (Member # 134) on 09-02-2013, 07:05 AM:
 
One big advantage of the Freestyle machine is that every flavor is available in a sugar-free form. With most fast food places offering a non-sugar choice only of Diet Coke, this gives me many more choices in drinks. There are also many non-carbonated choices, which is also great for me, since I need to avoid sugar and carbonation.
 
Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 09-02-2013, 07:05 AM:
 
Minute Maid is a Coca-Cola brand? I didn't know that. Fanta and Sprite are the only other non-coke ones which I recognise from here.

I don't like cola of any type.
 
Posted by Mark Hajducki (Member # 1732) on 09-02-2013, 08:33 AM:
 
I would expect there to be issues with products/flavours running out in busy sites. Refilling the machines would be a pain as the numerous cartridges are in the base of each machine, rather than back of house.

quote: Mike Blakesley
Either there's not enough ice -- no wait, there's NEVER enough ice
This would be a positive for the freestyle machines as the customer would be able to choose how much ice they get (in the UK customers would complain about getting 2/3 of the cup filled with ice).

quote: Tony Bandiera Jr
I can tell the nozzle is not rinsed between flavors, as even the ice water had residual taste of the drink before mine.
Will it let you dispense without a cup present? If it does just let it run for a few seconds before filling the cup.

In the UK Coke tends to be used as a semi-generic term for cola. I personally prefer Coke over Pepsi (UK Coke is made with sugar, Pepsi with HFCS). Freestyle machines have not made it this far north yet.
 
Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 09-02-2013, 08:53 AM:
 
The cartridges are about like ink cartridges; very clean. As I mentioned, they tell YOU when they are empty. Quick; easy. Not at all like the ones we are accoustomed to.

As regards the non cleaning nozzle; not a factor. The mix must be 98% water.

Other than taste/speed, I see no objections. Perhaps the reboot time after changing cartridges.

Coca cola has many, many brands it owns. Look them up, you will be surprised. (I have some of their stock.)
 
Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 09-02-2013, 10:53 AM:
 
Not sure how you guys can drink any of that crap, but to each his own.

Just have to chime in about Coke's lousy service. When a regional Coke bought out the local dealer here they just screwed over and dumped all of the little guys. Pepsi has been very, very good to us. Coke came sniffing around about 10 years later, and yes, I hold a grudge. I told them to make me an offer that would include an apology and never heard back. We may lose a few sales to the Southern Coke Diehards, but not enough to notice.

FWIW, my assistant is one of the SCD's and brings her own Coke to drink.
 
Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 09-02-2013, 12:20 PM:
 
The Santikos Palladium AVX theater I visited outside Houston, TX had LOTS of those Freestyle machines. I'd never seen them before and wondered just what sort of compromises might have been made to fit a couple dozen drink choices into a single machine.

If I remember correctly I got a Coke Zero from one. I didn't remember it tasting bad, but then I might have been too distracted by the theater's center channel speaker being on the fritz.

Fountain sodas in general don't taste nearly as good as the bottled stuff. There's so many variables that can affect the taste. Too often it just tastes watered down compared to the bottled stuff.

IMHO, the very best Coca-Cola product one can get is Mexican Coke, sweetened with natural cane sugar instead of high fructose corn syrup bullshit and bottled in the classic tall, glass bottles. Chill it down ice cold and it is excellent.
 
Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 09-02-2013, 01:04 PM:
 
Correction: Postmix fountain drinks don't taste as good as the bottled product. Premix, on the other hand, is the same as bottled since the only thing that's added to the mix on-site is the CO2.

The only downsides of premix is that fact that it's substantially more expensive than postmix, and the drinks are fizzier so you can't pour them as fast (have to set the nozzles to a slower pour) and it can take some time for the foam to go down, especially when the atmospheric pressure is low.

But the product you're serving to the customer tastes a lot better than any postmix.

**Yes, the weather really does have a big effect on serving premix.
 
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 09-02-2013, 02:15 PM:
 
OK I'm not a concessions pro like you guys so I'm a bit confused. WTF is the difference between pre and post mix?

quote: Frank Cox
Premix, on the other hand, is the same as bottled since the only thing that's added to the mix on-site is the CO2.
That's how I've ALWAYS seen it done. Bag in the box connected to one tube, CO2 connected to another. Nothing else gets added in there. And yes the staff have always been able to change the CO2 themselves. CO2 isn't added to bottles on site so I don't see how they could be identical. No bottle has ever tasted as good as a McDonald's fountain. Also, WTF is "brix" and why is it called that?

I guess I spent too much time in the projection booth.
 
Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 09-02-2013, 02:29 PM:
 
Postmix (the bag-in-a-box) is a heavy syrup; CO2 and water are added to it on-site. Premix is just "flat soda" -- everything is there except for the fizz.

A five gallon tank of premix gets you roughly five gallons of finished product. A five gallon tank of postmix gets you several hundred gallons of finished product.

These days, postmix comes in a bag-in-a-box. Premix comes in five gallon aluminum tanks. (Years ago, postmix came in tanks too, but that has changed.)
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 09-02-2013, 08:36 PM:
 
quote: Frank Cox
A five gallon tank of postmix gets you several hundred gallons of finished product.
No, no.....a five gallon tank of postmix gets you six gallons of product. The mix is 5/1.

Joe - "brix" is just the industry term for the setting of the ratio of syrup to carbonated water, as in "I need these machines to be brixed." I haven't got a clue where the term comes from. The little cup the technician uses to do the job is called a "brix cup." Probably named after somebody who invented the system, who had a name like Jack Brixman or something.
 
Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 09-02-2013, 08:49 PM:
 
The default brix ratio being 5/1 for regular is where I would add 'color' the brix ratio to make the taste just a bit better by slightly increasing the soda/water ratio so the soda didn't have such a heavy taste.

I would do this simply due to where we didn't have a high water purification/filtration system like the product out of a bottle or can.

The results were positive coming from the patrons who would comment on how our soda would taste compared to the competition who would serve the same product - be it Pepsi or Coke..

Course, it all depends on how much ice is put in the cup first .. or, turn it around so the ice would last longer: add the product then add ice in the cup.

Below from wiki

quote:
Degrees Brix (symbol °Bx) is the sugar content of an aqueous solution. One degree Brix is 1 gram of sucrose in 100 grams of solution and represents the strength of the solution as percentage by weight (% w/w). If the solution contains dissolved solids other than pure sucrose, then the °Bx only approximates the dissolved solid content. The °Bx is traditionally used in the wine, sugar, fruit juice, and honey industries
You're close Mike, here's the real person:
quote:
In the early 1800s, Karl Balling, then Adolf Brix, and finally the Normal-Commissions under Fritz Plato prepared pure sucrose solutions of known strength, measured their specific gravities and prepared tables of percent sucrose by weight vs. measured specific gravity. Balling measured specific gravity to 3 decimal places, Brix to 5, and the Normal-Eichungs Kommission to 6 with the goal of the Commission being to correct errors in the 5th and 6th decimal place in the Brix table.
I was taught by our local Pepsi people on how to brix soda towers back in the early 70's and we had a more complicated method on performing the brix tests on each head. Coke simplified methods with using a single brix nozzle and a pre stamped ratio cup to make the job quick and easy..

It all works no matter how you slice it.

-Monte
 
Posted by Mark Ogden (Member # 43) on 09-02-2013, 08:56 PM:
 
Beaten to the punch by Monte.

I kind of like these machines, it's cool to be able to get a lime flavored Diet Dr. Pepper, or whatnot. The only thing that bothers me is having to wait behind people trying to figure out how it works. Reminds me of when the ape-men first reach out to touch the monolith in 2001.
 
Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 09-02-2013, 09:48 PM:
 
Postmix has changed since I last had anything to do with it, then. I remember that one tank of postmix (5 gallons) would last for weeks at the theatre that I worked at before I moved here and opened my own. The syrup was the consistency of something like molasses, and as I recall the lesser-selling varieties tended to expire rather than go empty.

That's 20+ years back so things have obviously changed.

I think this is something similar to what I remember:

12 Litre Pepsi Post Mix Syrup

That says their mix ratio is 6:1, and a 12 litre box gets you 72 litres of product. Which is a lot more than 6 gallons of product out of a 5 gallon box.
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 09-02-2013, 10:16 PM:
 
quote: Mike Blakesley
No, no.....a five gallon tank of postmix gets you six gallons of product. The mix is 5/1.
Well, I screwed that up...what I meant to say was that ONE gallon of postmix gets you six gallons of product. So, a five-gallon BIB yields 30 gallons of soda.
 
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 09-02-2013, 11:54 PM:
 
These things were just installed in a local hotdog joint. It's a summertime institution around here and it's right at the entrance to Presque Isle State Park so it gets a lot of tourist business.

I was there on the day after they were installed and I noticed that the lines for people waiting for drinks just about doubled. It takes people twice as long to pour a drink as it does with a normal soda fountain.

First, the damned thing is like playing a video game. People stand there, stare at it and press a couple virtual buttons while they decide what they want to drink. As mentioned, the touch screen doesn't work very well. People often have to push two or three times to get it to activate.

Next, they have to look underneath to see where the ice comes out. Then they have to look to see where the soda comes out. Then they have to push the button in a completely different location. They spill ice cubes and slop their drinks.

Finally, the confined opening prevents more than one person from accessing the machine at a time. On a normal machine, a person who wants Coke can pour while a second person gets Sprite. Can't do that on these Freestyle things.

I can't imagine what the cost to produce these machines is. Can't imagine any less than $10K. Then, you have to add maintenance. Probably requires a service contract. Then, on top of that, you have to buy product in proprietary cartridges? Those can't be cheap. Yes, I know that most places don't pay for their dispensers if they sell enough product but I bet the prices for those cartridges is a lot more, per drink, than regular BIBs.

I agree with the others. Drinks from these machines don't taste the same.

If you add all these things up, the only good reason for having them is because the kiddies think they are fun to play with.

Here's the bottom line: I don't want to play a fucking video game! I want to drink my Coca Cola!

If you are in the theater business, you want to get customers out of the concession lines and into their seats so they can drink their drinks, eat their popcorn and watch their movie. The better and faster you can do that, the more happy customers you have.

You don't want your customers standing around playing video games.
 
Posted by Jarod Reddig (Member # 6363) on 09-03-2013, 12:39 AM:
 
Joe I agree McDonald's fountain Coke is my favorite too.
 
Posted by Buck Wilson (Member # 5885) on 09-03-2013, 02:58 AM:
 
I personally don't have an issue with the Freestyle machines, however, I will let the machine 'flush' for 3-5 seconds right down the drain before I put my cup into the stream and fill it. Gets rid of the previous person's disgusting diet concoction.

My favorite flavor is Orange Sprite.

All that being said, I wouldn't even consider a Freestyle machine in a theater I was operating.
 
Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 09-03-2013, 09:20 AM:
 
My soda flavor of choice is Dr. Pepper.

The great thing about that is - whether or not you have Coke or Pepsi - you can have Dr. Pepper.
 
Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 09-03-2013, 10:36 AM:
 
Yesterday, my girlfriend and I visited a new Qdoba Mexican Grill location that opened in Lawton last week. Lo and behold they had a couple of these things installed:

-

I didn't know the freestyle machines were available in a silver and white color scheme. The ones I saw at the Santikos movie theater were red and white (typical Coca-Cola colors).

I agree with Randy about the design of these machines creating an inefficient flow of customer traffic. It would be foolhardy for a theater or any other business to install only one of them. A business would need a second machine at the very least as a backup while one is resupplied with drink cartridges. The Santikos theater I visited had probably a couple dozen of the machines scattered around the complex.

One positive aspect about the machines: counter personnel don't have to be bothered refilling customer drinks while the shows are running and can concentrate on other tasks. Or it gives the theater management another reason to have fewer employees on the clock.

Regarding Qdoba, it's pretty decent, but not as good as Chipotle. The queso-steak burrito I ordered cost nearly $8, compared to $6.99 for a burrito at Chipotle. And the Qdoba burrito wasn't nearly as big as a Chipotle burrito. My memory on this is accurate because I ate at Chipotle 3 times last week when I was in Colorado Springs. Eating another burrito a day later at Qdoba would draw an accurate comparison. The restaurant has some of the same contemporary decor as Chipotle. But I don't think the company is nearly as quality conscious over the food ingredients. They do have a wider variety of menu items though.
 
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 09-03-2013, 02:16 PM:
 
Thanks for the explanation on all of that Brix crap, guys! Adolph Brix would make a great villain in a Die Hard movie.

Looking at Bobby's photo, it looks like the ice dispenser is in the back, the liquid nozzle is towards the front (press the button to run the nozzle?). But where is the credit card slot/money intake? Otherwise any bastard with a cup can use it. This makes sense in a place like Q*Doba but at a theater people like to smuggle stuff in. No issue folding a cup up! At least it has a mode for disabled people... somehow.

Bobby, we also ate at Chipotle. Next time you're up here we'll eat at the original, very first Chipotle ever. I will take a picture of you there so you can post it on social media where people will think it's Photoshopped because nobody ever has awesome experiences like that in real life.
 
Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 09-03-2013, 02:38 PM:
 
quote: Dennis Benjamin
The great thing about that is - whether or not you have Coke or Pepsi - you can have Dr. Pepper.
Every place I've seen that uses Coke has Pibb and no Dr Pepper.

Although, I just found out that in Europe, Dr Pepper is bottled by Coke. Weird.
 
Posted by Paul Gordon (Member # 3320) on 09-03-2013, 02:40 PM:
 
Speaking of the old premix soda keg days I have to tell you those kegs are perfect for home brewers. 20 L kegs, easy to clean and and fit a carboy of beer perfectly. Thats what I use at home and always have beer on tap in by 35mm screening room, fuck pop. BTW those self serve machines suck, its downloading work to the patron, if I'm paying $10 for a movie ticket then $5 for a pop I want someone to pour the drink for me. I hate the world, give me a beer.
 
Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 09-03-2013, 03:29 PM:
 
quote:
But where is the credit card slot/money intake? Otherwise any bastard with a cup can use it. This makes sense in a place like Q*Doba but at a theater people like to smuggle stuff in. No issue folding a cup up!
Yeah, the Freestyle machine I photographed at Qdoba was next to one of the doors. Somebody could pop in there, fill his cup and leave before any of the counter personnel clear on the other side of the restaurant could react. But if the soda pop tastes bad that might cut down the level of theft.

The opening on the front of the machine is large enough someone could stick his head in there and drink directly from the nozzle.

I can imagine videos uploaded to YouTube of college frat boys picking up one of their buddies off the ground and moving his face under the nozzle, "shotgun it, bitch!" Maybe covert government operates could waterboard a suspected terrorist using a Freestyle machine. A scary, but sweet, refreshing experience!

quote: Chris Slycord
Every place I've seen that uses Coke has Pibb and no Dr Pepper.
Are you just talking about movie theaters? I've seen lots of restaurants, convenience stores and other outlets serving soft drinks that offered Coca-Cola and Dr. Pepper.
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 09-03-2013, 03:36 PM:
 
quote: Bobby Henderson
But if the soda pop tastes bad that might cut down the level of theft.
There's another selling point for the Coke brochure!

A recent issue of Boxoffice has an article about the Freestyle saying that a person being able to get the exact drink they want is what "creates the ultimate moviegoing experience." Talk about over-hyping your product.
 
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 09-03-2013, 03:58 PM:
 
quote:
I can imagine videos uploaded to YouTube of college frat boys picking up one of their buddies off the ground and moving his face under the nozzle, "shotgun it, bitch!"
... as his head hits the ice lever causing a shower of ice cubes to rain down on his face!

Would be funny to see! [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 09-03-2013, 04:19 PM:
 
Waterboarding with ice cubes. That might make a person give up state secrets!

That kind of soda fountain drinking would have the "freestyle" label live up to its name. Stick your face in there and hit the button. When one of the staffers approaches just say you're freestyling it. If the staffer grabs you to eject you from the premises warn him you're freeballing it.

I wish the drink nozzle and ice dispenser was more visible. I think it's a design flaw. Customers have to stoop to see where the nozzle is to avoid spilling sticky pop all over their hands and parts of the Freestyle machine.
 
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 09-03-2013, 04:39 PM:
 
... and further increasing the operating cost of this already too-expensive machine.

From what I have read, the lease costs $300.00 per month not including the cost of the product.
 
Posted by Mark Hajducki (Member # 1732) on 09-03-2013, 04:40 PM:
 
quote: Mike Blakesley
being able to get the exact drink they want
Does it let them choose the strength of the added flavours (Coke with a hint of orange rather than a full dose of orange flavour)?

That combination could be made using a standard fountain by mixing Coke and Fanta together (available pre-bottled in some European countries).

The only draught drinks vending found in UK convenience stores and petrol stations is coffee supplied by Costa Express machines (Costa have more UK coffee shops than Starbucks). These machines are also touchscreen operated, some give a choice of flavoured syrups, and take some time to make the drinks.
 
Posted by Chris Daigle (Member # 7347) on 09-03-2013, 04:57 PM:
 
We were approached a couple months ago by our local Coke rep trying to convince us to switch over to these Freestyle machines. I'm not sure if its different in other parts of the country, but unlike the drop-in fountains that you get for free for selling the product, you have to pay a monthly fee for each Freestyle machine that you get. I don't remember the exact amount but I believe it was between $200-$300 per month. On top of that the product was about 10% more expensive than the regular bag in the box we're currently using. And one other thing, if you have these machines Coke "strongly discourages" keeping any legacy equipment so they only want you to sell Freestyle at your location. So if you switch be prepared to significantly raise drink prices just to generate enough money to cover the extra costs and end up at the exact point you are today profit-wise and then you get the added benefit of pissing off customers who will now be forced to wait in an endless line of people trying to decide which of the 100 flavors of soda they want.

If like us you prefer to pour your customers their drinks and not hand them an empty cup so they have to do it themselves, then I can't see this ever working well in a theater environment. Needless to say, we passed.
 
Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 09-03-2013, 05:01 PM:
 
quote: Bobby Henderson
Are you just talking about movie theaters? I've seen lots of restaurants, convenience stores and other outlets serving soft drinks that offered Coca-Cola and Dr. Pepper.
You're right I was focusing too much on theaters. But it did seem like he was implying that about anywhere that has coke also has Dr Pepper.
 
Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 09-03-2013, 06:51 PM:
 
I'm not really in the soda business and I've only seen one of those Freestyle machines once, in a Burger King in London. Seems like they are slowly starting to make their way into Europe too.

While I do understand that a Cherry or Vanilla Coke, dispensed by this machine might taste different than a bottled version, I don't really understand why a "Classic Coke" from this machine, will taste any different than that from a normal post-mix soda fountain.

Aren't they just using the same basic syrups and are just mixing in the special flavors, like lime, orange, etc.?

Regarding Coca Cola itself... It's actually kind of sad, that the country that this stuff originates from, has the worst tasting Coke on the planet. Since almost all bottlers outside of the U.S. still mainly use sugar as sweetener and not this damned HFCS stuff...
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 09-03-2013, 07:12 PM:
 
That's supposedly a reason Pepsi came out with "throwback" versions of their products a year or two ago. They had Pepsi Throwback and Mountain Dew Throwback -- which were sweetened with sugar instead of HFCS. There is a difference in taste but it's slight. But it must have caught on....they were "limited time" things when introduced but they're still available.

quote: Marcel Birgelen
Aren't they just using the same basic syrups and are just mixing in the special flavors, like lime, orange, etc.?
They don't use the basic syrups, apparently. They use a "base" fluid of some sort and it's mixed with the flavors that come in small cartridges. (I'd like to see a picture of the inside of one of those machines.) Anyway, it introduces more opportunities for bad mixes. Then you've got the possibility of "residual" taste from the last person's poured drink left on the spout.

Wikipedia has an article about the machines, including a picture of the insides (sort of). Here is their description of how it works:

quote:
Technologies involved include microdispensing technology and proprietary PurePour technology. Both technologies were originally developed to deliver precise doses of drugs. Microdosing blends one or more concentrated ingredients in 46 US fl oz (1.36 L) packets with water and sweetener at the point where the beverage is dispensed, thus avoiding the use of traditional 5 US gal (18.9 L) boxes of syrup (also known as a bag-in-a-box).[7] Cartridges store concentrated ingredients in the dispenser cabinet and are RFID enabled. The machine uses RFID chips to detect its supplies and to radio resupplying needs to other units. The machines transmit supply and demand data to both Coca-Cola and the owner including brands sold, times of the day of sales, troubleshooting information, and service data. The traditional ice cube dispenser remains. The maximum rate of output is 95 drinks per hour.

 
Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 09-03-2013, 08:32 PM:
 
The machine works well enough and people quickly do get used to it. Louisville has them in Dairy Queen and Firehouse Subs for over 2 years.

I end up with 40% Cherry Coke and the rest Reg. Coke. The Cherry is too sweet, just as it is in cans.

Taste? I guess we'll just disagree. Everything tastes different that everything else. Agreed McD has the best overall Coke. the machine is not a problem for me. louis
 
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 09-03-2013, 09:31 PM:
 
quote:
The maximum rate of output is 95 drinks per hour.
That comes out to one drink every 38 seconds.

How many of us had to pour drinks, two at a time, just to keep up with the lines?
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 09-03-2013, 09:57 PM:
 
I don't think the math works out. That doesn't take into account the time wasted while the customer considers the 125 choices, dinks around with the ice, and possibly changes his mind once or twice. I'll bet you'd be lucky to get 50 drinks an hour out of one of those things. That equates to 12.5 drinks in 15 minutes. Guess we'll stick with the old countertop model.
 
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-03-2013, 11:42 PM:
 
That's why they want you to put 10 of them in your lobby Mike. Just think "all those choices, your customers will be so happy and flock to your business because of it".

Or not.
 
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 09-04-2013, 01:44 AM:
 
quote: Mike Blakesley
I'll bet you'd be lucky to get 50 drinks an hour out of one of those things.
Yes, it did say it was maximum rate. Probably without changing flavors in between drinks.
 
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 09-04-2013, 02:50 AM:
 
Probably with just a constant flow, no stopping.

So I don't get it. People still need to wait in line at the concession stand to buy a cup for these things. It doesn't cut down on the concession line at all. Would-be customers see the long line and just say "screw it" and bypass the stand altogether. Or they bring their own stuff. Gotta keep that line super-short.
 
Posted by Buck Wilson (Member # 5885) on 09-04-2013, 02:56 AM:
 
I saw that and instantly thought WTF? That's yet another dealbreaker.
 
Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 09-04-2013, 02:57 AM:
 
quote: Mike Blakesley
That's supposedly a reason Pepsi came out with "throwback" versions of their products a year or two ago. They had Pepsi Throwback and Mountain Dew Throwback -- which were sweetened with sugar instead of HFCS. There is a difference in taste but it's slight. But it must have caught on....they were "limited time" things when introduced but they're still available.
Although I've never had the opportunity, I'm pretty sure that in the case of Coke, you could single out the HFCS and sugar versions in a blind taste test. And I'm well aware that people claim all kinds of stuff, like tasting the difference between Coke in glass or PET bottles, but this one, is pretty obvious.

quote: Mike Blakesley
They don't use the basic syrups, apparently. They use a "base" fluid of some sort and it's mixed with the flavors that come in small cartridges. (I'd like to see a picture of the inside of one of those machines.)
I did some catching up on the Googling part. And indeed, the "base flavor" cartridges they use, are flimsy compared to the "bag-in-a-box" versions. But, then again, bottlers also receive their concentrate, without the sweetener. AFAIK, the main reason they do that is because the sweetener adds a lot of bulk. So, is this essentially the same stuff bottling plants use (which is very concentrated and comes with all kinds of warning labels, because of the low pH), or is this yet another contraption, that's even more concentrated? *

quote: Mike Blakesley
Anyway, it introduces more opportunities for bad mixes.
Hey, everything is computer controlled, RFID tagged, laser aligned and uses PurePour(tm) technology that was previously only available for medical purposes, what could possibly go wrong?

quote: Mike Blakesley
Then you've got the possibility of "residual" taste from the last person's poured drink left on the spout.
I'm probably taking this far to easy, but couldn't that be solved by increasing the dosage of the flavor-containing elements in the first 2/3rds of the drink and just pouring (carbonated) water in the remaining third? That's the way those coffee machines that also offer drinks like hot chocolate are (mostly) solving this problem, without having to clean the nozzle/sprout/or-how-you-call-that-thing after every use.

quote: Brad Miller
That's why they want you to put 10 of them in your lobby Mike.
And they still charge you between $200 and $300 per month per device for those things?

quote: Joe Redifer
Would-be customers see the long line and just say "screw it" and bypass the stand altogether. Or they bring their own stuff. Gotta keep that line super-short.
Obviously, the thing was new and the novelty factor comes into play, but that's exactly the reason why I ignored that thing, when I saw it the first (and for now the only) time.

Edit: * Apparently, the Coke bottling plants receive their concentrate in two parts. Which already partially answers this question.
 
Posted by Edward Havens (Member # 4715) on 09-04-2013, 04:35 AM:
 
If one watches a Freestyle "pour" a drink, one'll see quick spritzes of whatever flavor(s) one wants go on and off during the filling process.

The one very minor issue I have with the Freestyle units is the difference between what's being "sold" and what's being sold. You don't get an actual Cherry Coke or an actual Raspberry Coke (which they really do have outside the USA) when you choose those drinks. You get a Coke with spritzes of cherry or raspberry flavor. A Cherry Coke from a Freestyle machine don't taste like a Cherry Coke out of a glass bottle or an aluminum can... but then, neither does the Cherry Coke that comes out of the post-mix machines at my theatre, which we brix at least twice a month. But I still love the Cherry Coke at my theatre, and it sells far better than the Coke with shots of cherry Flavor Rage we used to sell.
 
Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 09-04-2013, 08:45 AM:
 
I've watched people use Freestyle machines in theatres. They take up WAY too much time, fussing with the myriad choices... and the WASTE! Who do you think is paying for all that sampling & dumping down the drain?

You can't control costs by putting these things behind the counter. The whole point is letting the customer play. More time, more waste, more cost for you.

At a drive-in? Couldn't possibly work.

I agree that pre-mix tastes best. My wife and I often fly to a small airport that serves it. The bottler does something with premix (and the canned stuff) that we can't... they carbonate EVERYTHING. We dilute our drinks with uncarbonated syrup, so it's always going to be different. However, the premix is more expensive and cumbersome to store, because it's not concentrated. You probably won't see a major return of that stuff.

Coke has always been good to us. In our area (near Seattle), their service is prompt and first-class. We check brix at least 3 times per season. Our staff pulls the nozzles daily... no brown goo in our machines.

You can get competitive pricing on syrup if you work at it a little. Coke does want your business and they'll work with you, to an extent. For awhile, we were paying less to have our foodservice company supply our syrup. The local Coke warehouse was charging us about $12/box more... go figure.

We had Pepsi for about a year, and nobody was impressed. The local service crew also burned out one of our machines on a Friday, by wiring the power transformer backwards. Then, they left us with the problem... can't help us on the weekend, y'know.

We had Coke back in here by Saturday afternoon... new machines & all.
 
Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 09-04-2013, 09:35 AM:
 
We have a Freestyle setup at a local fast food outlet. I haven't been back to the counter since it went in. The drive-thru still uses a normal fountain so if I really want to have their "food" I buy there and then park and go inside.
The thing may well make great drinks (no opinion), but it is so slow - not slow dispensing but one goes mental waiting in line while the kiddies decide what to get.
The flavor cartridges are very small, so the (most popular) Coke runs out every few minutes when the place is busy. Then someone has to complain to a counter person, who has to find someone qualified, who has to find the key. Then the machine gets opened, and displays what cartridge is empty. Then it gets locked again while the cartridge is fetched and the machine unlocked and opened again. Then the new cartridge gets scanned (there's a bar code scanner inside) and the machine tells you what cartridge slot is to be changed(there are about 8 slots inside, each cartridge is quite small - anyone with cinema concession experience knows how often the large postmix boxes have to be swapped so you can imagine how few drinks a cartridge less than 1/4 that size will make. Finally the thing is refilled, closed, locked, and of course the first Coke is all watery so the customer has to pour it out and refill it. Hopefully the spill/pourout tray is connected to a drain.
All witnessed while sipping a normal postmix Coke from the dive-thru window.
This franchise location seems to be test marketing a new look for the chain I don't go to a lot of them but haven't seen another set up this way. Everything is screwed up: you order and pay at one counter and have to give a name, then you get a drink cup there. Then you wait at another counter for your name to be called, or go to the Freestyle line and miss your name being called. Chaos. I hope this doesn't roll out to the whole chain.
 
Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 09-04-2013, 12:37 PM:
 
quote: Edward Havens
Coke with shots of cherry Flavor Rage
Is that junk still being sold? That stuff was sweetened with sucralose, to make it compatible with the "Diet" drinks. So, if you took the extra calories to avoid that bitter taste of aspartame, you ended up with a distinct hint of sucralose...

quote: Dave Macaulay
All witnessed while sipping a normal postmix Coke from the dive-thru window.
So, that Freestyle goodness wasn't available at the drive-thru? Wonder what it would be like if it was. Will they tell you all the options if you ask gently? [Smile]
 
Posted by Pravin Ratnam (Member # 1417) on 09-04-2013, 01:12 PM:
 
Mark H said:
quote: Mark Hajducki
I would expect there to be issues with products/flavours running out in busy sites. Refilling the machines would be a pain as the numerous cartridges are in the base of each machine, rather than back of house.
That's why I suggested they could have a hybrid solution where the freestyle complements the soda fountain. The soda fountain will carry the most popular drinks while freestyle takes care of the other flavors and not carry the fountain flavors.That will also cut down on the lines as most of the customers will choose the fountain option.

GUys, don't resist it. Just give coke feedback to make it better. Choice is good.
quote: Chris Daigle
And one other thing, if you have these machines Coke "strongly discourages" keeping any legacy equipment so they only want you to sell Freestyle at your location.
Well, hopefully retail outlets will fight back and tell coke strongly that the lack of flexibility won't fly with them.
 
Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 09-04-2013, 03:06 PM:
 
I was going to add a particularly snarky reply, but:

The new system is easy and fast to reload. 10 seconds? plus reboot time. Had lunch at the place with the machine. the staff loves it. remember: small cartridge but LOTS of local water. i would really like to know the %age of water: 99%???

This brings up the question of local water. Louisville wins awards 5-10 times a year for good local water.(Better than 90% of the bottle waters.) Southern indiana never get an award. I won't buy any soft drinks over there because EVERYTHING, even McD tastes back. Employees at McD buy bottle cokes. Is it possible that super concentrate allows the flavor of the local water to dominate? If so, then the 5 to 1 mixes would be vastly better than the 99 to 1 mixes. Louis
 
Posted by Mark Hajducki (Member # 1732) on 09-04-2013, 04:14 PM:
 
Given that the machines sell Dasani brand water (in bottled form this is reverse-osmosis filtered water with added minerals) there should be some water filtering in the machine.

-------

The 2004 launch of (bottled) Dasani water in the UK did not go well. The initial adverts used the tagline "can't live without spunk" which is semen in UK slang. Next the source of the water was reported as being from the municipal water supply in Sidcup, London (a region not known for having high quality water). Just over a month after launch Dasani was withdrawn from sale due to a batch having a high level of the carcinogen bromate.

The UK bottled water market tends to advertise the source of the water (even if not technically spring water) sourcing the water from regions associated with good water taste. Since the failure of Dasani in the UK Coca-Cola bought a large spring water company, selling Abbey Well water under the Schweppes brand.
 
Posted by James Westbrook (Member # 3690) on 09-04-2013, 04:29 PM:
 
I noticed a picture of one of the Freestyle machines showed a dispenser for the Coke owned sweetened tea, which comes through BIB. I want to call it "Twin Peaks Tea" but I know that isn't the right name. The sweetened version is "Instant Diabetic Coma". So sweet I feel compelled to dilute it with water if available.
Some Coke distributors have impressive math skills. One orders 50 cases of the 1 liter Dasani. The Coke delivery man unloads a pallet with 56 on it. I point out the overage. The Coke guy says "keep em." This has to wreak havoc with Coke's accounting.
The pallet had 7 cases per row, with 8 rows. Why they didn't send with 7 rows and one added on top confounds me...
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 09-04-2013, 05:31 PM:
 
quote: Pravin Ratnam
GUys, don't resist it. Just give coke feedback to make it better. Choice is good.
When you need five or six machines to do the job of one, to sell about the same number of sodas as before (except they don't taste as good), at $300 a month per box, when you used to get a machine for free?

I can't see how anybody thinks this is a GOOD deal. It plays right into the "gotta-try-new-stuff-now" mentality shared by early adopters, but for businesses that don't have extra money to throw away, it looks like a real dicey proposition to me.

Plus sugary drinks are under new fire every day from all over the place, keep that in mind too. I saw an article yesterday citing a study saying that kids who drink too much soda have more tendency to grow up being violent. So now we can lay part of the blame Columbine, Aurora, Newtown, etc on Coca Cola I guess.
 
Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 09-05-2013, 06:21 AM:
 
quote: Mike Blakesley
I saw an article yesterday citing a study saying that kids who drink too much soda have more tendency to grow up being violent. So now we can lay part of the blame Columbine, Aurora, Newtown, etc on Coca Cola I guess.
Wow, seriously?!? All of these "studies" are really getting ridiculous. The soft drink industry should fund a study to prove that sugary drinks cure cancer. You can make a "scientific study" say whatever you want it to but the "war on soda" is getting ridiculous.

I remember as a kid a study saying how bad eggs were for you so I got scared (I was like 9 years old) and stopped eating eggs. Then a few months later a study came out saying that eggs in moderation were good for you. It was at that point that I stopped listening to studies.
 
Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 09-05-2013, 07:10 AM:
 
Does anybody remember the machines which were around in the '60s which mixed drinks from powder rather than post-mix syrup? Orange and lemon were certainly available, and I think there were other flavours as well. They tasted vile, and there was usually a small pile of undissolved powder at the bottom of the cup.
 
Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 09-05-2013, 08:21 AM:
 
Mike: I assure you the big boys have enough clout to get whatever they want at no charge from both Coke and Pepsi. They may even be able to get "placement" fees paid also. Louis
 
Posted by Jeff Taylor (Member # 443) on 09-05-2013, 08:58 AM:
 
As a small operator I used to get placement fees as well as a piece of the sales for soda can dispensers in malls. Coke and Pepsi actively competed.
 
Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 09-05-2013, 12:51 PM:
 
quote: Lyle Romer
The soft drink industry should fund a study to prove that sugary drinks cure cancer
Too late. We already know that coconut oil does that, while also facilitating a nice, even tan.
 
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-05-2013, 03:14 PM:
 
-
 
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 09-05-2013, 04:05 PM:
 
Don't forget that people who grow up to be violent have consumed water during their childhood. Also, people who stutter have been found to have drunk water in the past and maybe even continue to drink it. It truly is horrible.
 
Posted by Mark Hajducki (Member # 1732) on 09-05-2013, 04:24 PM:
 
quote: Stephen Furley
Does anybody remember the machines which were around in the '60s which mixed drinks from powder rather than post-mix syrup? Orange and lemon were certainly available, and I think there were other flavours as well. They tasted vile, and there was usually a small pile of undissolved powder at the bottom of the cup.
These still exist in the form of drinks for in-cup vending machine drinks under the Klix brand (a subsidiary of Mars with some of the drinks branded Starburst). My distant memories of these (as with the in-cup hot drinks) was an increase in flavour towards the base of the drink.
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 09-05-2013, 08:35 PM:
 
Here is the text of the violent kids article.

The Week magazine

SODA IS MAKING OUR KIDS VIOLENT

We already know that sugary soft drinks aren't exactly great for your health, contributing to obesity, diabetes, and other health problems. And now there's this: A new study in the journal Pediatrics says drinking too much soda can make children more likely to get into fights and break their friends' toys.

Researchers from the public health schools at Columbia and Harvard followed the habits of about 3,000 moms and their 5-year-olds in 20 large cities. They found that 43 percent of the kids consumed at least one soft drink per day, and that those who swilled four sodas or more daily were more than twice as likely to show signs of attention problems and aggression, such as destroying others' belongings or physically attacking people.

Even after adjusting for sociodemographic factors — such as maternal depression, intimate partner violence, and paternal incarceration — soft drink consumption was still associated with aggression, withdrawal, and attention problems.

"With every increase in soda consumption, we saw an increase in behavior problems," says Shakira Suglia, a study author and associate professor of epidemiology at Columbia University.

The study's conclusions confirmed suspicions of some experts who deal with preschoolers. "It makes sense on a lot of levels," Ben Belnap, a Utah child psychologist, tells The Salt Lake Tribune. "It sort of seems like a no-brainer."

Why would soda make kids misbehave? The researchers couldn't say, precisely, but they suggested that any of a number of ingredients — including high-fructose corn syrup and caffeine — might be enough to make a child unruly. Alexandra Sifferlin at TIME argues that caffeine is the most likely culprit.

Other studies connected the compound with changes in hormone levels that could alter the way still developing brains perceive and evaluate risk... The sugar in sodas may also affect behavior, though that connection is murkier. [TIME]

But some people suggest another factor should be added to the list of culprits: Slack parenting. "What kid is drinking four sodas a day?" asks Eve Vawter at Mommyish. "I'm a terrible Diet Coke addict. Yes, I know how utterly bad it is for me and yes, I will quit the Satan juice, and yes, I know, I know. But even though I feel like I consume a large amount of the DC daily, even I don’t drink FOUR a day and I'm a grownup person!"
 
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-06-2013, 01:17 AM:
 
Wah, wah, wah. It's just one excuse after another. The only thing valid about that article was the point that the problem is the PARENTS of kids these days. Most parents these days are terrible at being parents. While I'm not saying that HFCS, caffeine and such are good for kids (or people in general), this new generation of young adults needs to learn to stop digging for some excuse to validate their own poor parenting skills.

One of these days someone is going to do a useful study on this and come to the conclusion that if the parenting is bad, the kids will not grow up to be successful and useful members of society.
 
Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 09-06-2013, 03:20 AM:
 
quote: Brad Miller
One of these days someone is going to do a useful study on this and come to the conclusion that if the parenting is bad, the kids will not grow up to be successful and useful members of society.
This seems to be a universal problem, at least in "western" societies around the world. So, now we only need to invent something to fix parenting [Wink] .

But it's not just the parenting, it's society at a whole. Let's be a bit realistic here, many people in those "western societies" are, on average, way to fat. And I don't mean "does not fit some kind of ridiculously Photoshopped beauty-standard", but just so fat, that it becomes unhealthy.

Part of the problem is the simple fact that many people (and I might be partly guilty on that one too), feed almost exclusively on soda. That's one hell of a business for those deluxe sugar water selling companies. And also let's not deny: they won't shy back to make those drinks at least a slight amount addictive.

Personally, I'm totally fed up with all those (mostly bullshit) studies. Those primarily serve to sell more newspapers and magazines by scaring the public: Playing violent video games turns your dog into a silent killer; Eating too much candy after midnight causes your brain to spontaneously combust; etc., etc...

But it should be perfectly clear, that drinking this stuff day out and night, might somehow negatively affect your health. You don't need any sophisticated study for this, just a bit of common sense should be sufficient. My mama at least told me, that I cannot have more than one glass of coke a day, maybe two if it was a special day...

But that's probably the core problem, common sense has become a luxury. Companies know this all to well and are exploiting it to the bone. Governments all over the world react with extra mandatory warning labels and rules that further erode your freedom. Stuff like fat and sugar taxes are now seriously up for debate...

So, we do not need something to fix parenting, but something to fix common sense. I guess that's called education... hmmm...
 
Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 09-06-2013, 10:58 AM:
 
When I go to McDonalds I ask them to use the "Sweet Tea" styrofoam cups for my Coca-Cola McDonalds Coca-cola in a Styrofoam cup is the best I have found. The styrofoam cup keeps the ice from completely melting for hours.

Sonic also uses styrofoam cups and I will often stop there as it is closer and I don't have to go through the ordeal of asking for a special cup but the McDonalds coke tastes better.

The funny thing is some McDonalds use automated drink machines at the drive-thru and asking them for a different type of cup apparently wreaks havoc on their system.
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 09-06-2013, 12:36 PM:
 
It's an inventory issue. Most places count their cups, so if you ask for a Drink A beverage in a Drink B cup, but the two are different prices, they'll have to punch up the "Drink A" in their system and then their inventory count will be off by 1 in both cup types.

I have often wondered how anal the big chains are about little things like this.
 
Posted by Edward Havens (Member # 4715) on 09-06-2013, 01:13 PM:
 
Depends on the chain and whose in charge of those things at that moment.
 
Posted by James Westbrook (Member # 3690) on 09-06-2013, 02:23 PM:
 
Quite a few fast food places seem to be run by teenagers, with no obvious adult supervision. I can easily see inventory problems there.
 
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-06-2013, 02:52 PM:
 
quote: Sean McKinnon
The funny thing is some McDonalds use automated drink machines at the drive-thru and asking them for a different type of cup apparently wreaks havoc on their system.
Oh don't get me started on those things. The stupid machines toss out about 4 cubes of ice and then pour a poorly brix'd beverage in the cup that literally is WARM when served seconds later. To add insult to injury, the machines always seem to spill a little over the edge and the stupid people at McDonald's drive-through don't bother to wipe the cup down before handing it to you. I used to hit up McDonald's just to get a drink (they're $1 now for any size too), but now I walk in for it.

quote: Mike Blakesley
It's an inventory issue. Most places count their cups, so if you ask for a Drink A beverage in a Drink B cup, but the two are different prices, they'll have to punch up the "Drink A" in their system and then their inventory count will be off by 1 in both cup types.
I don't think that is accurate in the case of McDonald's. At least down here in Texas where it's nice and toasty in the summer, they were giving EVERYONE the styrofoam tea cups without even asking. Further north when I was working in Indiana last month, they were outright asking which cup the customer wanted. Of course everyone was choosing the styrofoam. Surely their inventory will take note of this and switch at some point.

What I really hate is places that if you get a small or medium drink, you get it in a wax cup (which is fine). But if you order the large, you get it in a plastic cup, which as I've ranted before is unacceptable and they never get an order for a large from me because of that.
 
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 09-06-2013, 10:18 PM:
 
quote: Some magazine I've never heard of called "The Week"
SODA IS MAKING OUR KIDS VIOLENT
Wow, their title states AS FACT that soda absolutely is without question causing kids to be violent. With journalistic integrity like that... wait, there is no integrity there. Their article is probably just as much hyperbole as their title. I don't care about anything that says "A new study finds" or "Scientists say". Such articles are usually pretty stupid and designed to provoke people's fears. All of these "studies" are 100% circumstantial evidence based on a small group of people. And with that, we get articles with titles that proclaim it as ABSOLUTE FACT like this one here. The Week magazine should be called The Weak because that's who it's written by and for.
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 09-06-2013, 11:04 PM:
 
I think in the actual magazine it had ", study says" at the end of the headline... or maybe a question mark, I'm not sure.

The Week Is actually a pretty good mag… It condenses articles from lots of publications into quick summaries. I like it because it doesn't stick to one political agenda the way Time does... It covers all viewpoints.
 
Posted by Sam Graham (Member # 2889) on 09-07-2013, 02:21 AM:
 
You know what? With all the options, it never even occurred to me to try basic Coke from a Freestyle machine. I'm usually having something like a cherry Fanta.

What I don't like about these machines is when you choose a flavor, it kicks out about a quarter cup, then suddenly that flavor's out and it just stops. It doesn't go to a weak syrup mix like a regular fountain, it just cuts you off cold.

We had a family buffet restaurant that had two of these for awhile. They went back to the standard fountains eventually.

Also...Dublin Black Cherry. My new favorite soda. Go find it now.
 
Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 09-07-2013, 04:15 AM:
 
My only experience with a Freestyle machine has been on the CinemaCon/ShowWest trade show floor. In that situation the drinks were cold and tasted close enough to what I wanted that I didn't pay any further attention. I have never seen one of these machines in use in a real world situation, but it seems like they are a bottleneck waiting to happen as customers try to make up their mind and experiment.

One comment about ice in fountain drinks. We train all of our employees to fill the cups at least 1/2 with ice (the Coke branded cups we use actually have an ice line we point out to the employees). However, the employees quickly seem to fall into the notion that more ice means less soda for the customer and therefore they go light to keep the customers from getting anger. I even have a hell of a time teaching them to fill the cup all the way up with ice when pouring an iced tea. It's not that they aren't getting the message, it's that they think they are cheating the customer.
 
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 09-07-2013, 05:53 PM:
 
quote: Brad Miller
What I really hate is places that if you get a small or medium drink, you get it in a wax cup (which is fine). But if you order the large, you get it in a plastic cup
I forgot to comment about this. Why do they do this? Is a plastic cup cheaper than a wax cup? If not, then is it to make the buyer of a large drink feel like a fancy millionaire? I was pretty upset the first time I got a plastic cup with my large McDonald's drink.
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 09-07-2013, 07:42 PM:
 
Less prone to leaks maybe?
 
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-07-2013, 08:54 PM:
 
We never had issues back when I managed for UA with the 44oz wax cups with them leaking. Well, at least we didn't with non-Kevin Costner epic movies. [Razz]
 
Posted by Jarod Reddig (Member # 6363) on 09-10-2013, 01:47 PM:
 
My local Wendys uses Coke Freestyle now even in the drive thru. Last night my Sprite tasted like sour lime and it had a brownish hue to it.
 
Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 09-10-2013, 04:21 PM:
 
Lunch today with this machine at Wendys. Flavor was off (too much flavor) and pour button wouldn't shut off. I let the assistant manager know and it was fixed (on line like digital cinema) within 15 minutes. Refill was spot on. Louis
 
Posted by Jarod Reddig (Member # 6363) on 09-10-2013, 04:45 PM:
 
I complained to the Wendys manager and he said "IM really sorry. Ever since we got them installed we have had dozens of complaints about the flavor." I spoke to him about some of the negative opinions of the machine in the cinema world and he said it didn't surprise him and he said he personally does not like the machine for the fact of how slow it is for his dine in customers to fill there drinks let alone the flavor issues.
 
Posted by Jake Spell (Member # 5294) on 09-21-2013, 07:14 PM:
 
Personally I like the Freestyle machines, but I also NEVER get a regular flavor. Usually some form of Pibb or Barq's root beer and they taste just as I expected.

As for as Coke vs Pepsi i like Coke but Ill drink either.

At the theater i used to manage a few years ago Pepsi was originally installed and from the start they were terrible. The install took several days and it took them THREE deliveries to get our initial order in, so long that by the time they finally got the initial order in it was already time for another. This continued until we switched to Coke Their service was completely non existent.

Coke on the other hand was very responsive, we had a great sales rep that worked with us even though we were a single screen independent. The very few problems got fixed the same or following day. Overall Coke was far better than Pepsi in my area.

We are served by Coke bottling out of Charlotte.
 
Posted by Jarod Reddig (Member # 6363) on 11-03-2013, 04:49 PM:
 
Now both Wendys locations in my town use Coke Freestyle machines. UGH! Everytime I get a Sprite it has a dirty color to it, sometimes brown sometimes orange, like some other drink from the last drink poured has residuals left. Coke just doesn't taste the same either. Always has a very light cherry flavor in it and im not a fan of cherry coke personally. Either way Coke should taste like coke. At first when I complained the manager was like yes we got some other complaints too. Now hes like I don't know what you mean, tastes the same to me. I wonder if he even remebers me complaining before???

Does the Coca-Cola company even taste test anymore? How are other people not having a national outcry over this? My whole family and all my friends barely go to our local Wendys anymore over this.
 
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-03-2013, 05:07 PM:
 
They just remodeled the Wendy's by my house, which has always been a model for the quality of which Wendy's locations should strive for. (Some of the Wendy's around here are awful, but this one is fantastic.)

Of course with the new remodel came two shiny fucking Freestyle machines. I went to get my drink, saw the Freestyle machines, turned back around and looked at the gal behind the counter and she already knew! She said they had gotten tons of complaints about the machines and offered to fill it up from the normal fountain at the drive-through.

I swear these corporate people sure are morons. If they didn't have a normal machine in the back, I would've never returned unless I was bringing my own drink, which by the way I have no problem with to make a point.
 
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 11-03-2013, 05:49 PM:
 
Do they still have those machines at the World of Coke in Atlanta that squirt a jet of soda, through the air and into your cup from about ten feet away?

Those were the coolest drink machines I ever saw! Every theater should have them!

A damn sight better than these Freestyle abominations!
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 11-03-2013, 09:02 PM:
 
quote: Jarod Reddig
My local Wendys uses Coke Freestyle now even in the drive thru.
How does that work? Is there a big sign with the 75 or whatever flavor choices? Does the line move more slowly now?
 
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-04-2013, 01:09 AM:
 
The Taco Bueno in my area of town does exactly that Mike. The sign above the menu is about half as big as the menu itself listing all of the combinations. They always seem shocked when I drive-through and order and don't get a drink, but I make it a point to tell them why...every time.

Because I'm stubborn like that. [Razz]
 
Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 11-04-2013, 08:04 AM:
 
quote: Randy Stankey
Do they still have those machines at the World of Coke in Atlanta that squirt a jet of soda, through the air and into your cup from about ten feet away?
Not to my knowledge. They moved to a new location 7 or 8 years ago, right around the time I moved to Atlanta. I did not get to see the old location, but I've been to the new one three times and don't recall seeing this, although I know exactly what you are referring to because I saw it at the Coke museum thingy on the Strip in Vegas many years ago. It was actually one of the things I was looking for when I visited World of Coke in Atlanta, and was somewhat disappointed they did not have it.
 
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 11-04-2013, 09:58 AM:
 
I am guessing that these new Coke machines are designed to be "involvement devices" to get customers to remember the Coca Cola brand. The idea, to let people "play" with Coke products.

Putting them in drive throughs or behind service counters is counter to customer involvement. The expense of putting these machines in areas where customers can't interact with them runs counter to their purpose. As a (hypothetical) business owner I wouldn't want to spend that kind of money for little or no benefit.

If a business really wanted to pump up the customer involvement, one of those long distance fountain dispensers would do it up in spades! An installation in a large lobby like in a theater megaplex would really be a showpiece!

If a customer bought a cup, pressed a button for the drink he wanted then put his cup on the platform and watched his drink fly through the air, not only would he be "involved" with the brand, it would create a memorable experience that is likely to bring him back to the theater again and again.

That, I would like to see! [Cool]

Too bad they don't still have them at World of Coke. That is one thing I remember the most. Isn't that the whole point? To get people to remember the product?
 
Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 11-04-2013, 11:28 AM:
 
Yeah, but you get to try 60 flavors from around the world, including the Beverly. [evil]

Did you go to the old location or the new one? The new one is a Pemberton Place, across from the even newer Georgia Aquarium.
 
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 11-04-2013, 12:42 PM:
 
Would have been ten or twelve years ago, while I was working at Cinemark.

I had an off day after a service call in Atlanta so I went there for a little recreation.
 
Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 11-05-2013, 11:47 AM:
 
Yeah, that was definitely the old location. I wish I had gotten to see it.
 
Posted by Frank B. McLaughlin (Member # 6683) on 11-06-2013, 08:55 AM:
 
Still missing the point: anything which does not involve a labor cost is good.
 
Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 11-06-2013, 03:10 PM:
 
So...these machines never need to be cleaned, calibrated, and otherwise serviced? The syrups change themselves when they are empty?

[Confused]
 
Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 11-06-2013, 06:14 PM:
 
From what I've read in this thread is that those machines need more care and love than any ordinary post-mix system, since there are far more components that can fail and those cartridges need regular replacements.

Also, producing and distributing those cartridges looks more labor intensive to me.

For all it does, it doesn't reduce labor costs in any part of the chain if you ask me [Wink] .
 
Posted by Mark Lensenmayer (Member # 134) on 11-07-2013, 07:34 AM:
 
Changing a cartridge takes just a few seconds. The machine automatically sends in a request for service or supplies when needed. When an item runs out, it is automatically removed or dimmed on the selection screen.

One other thing that I haven't seen mentioned is that the machine has a special interface for those in wheelchairs.

I really like the machine, but I understand how some might not like the selections. Coke from Mexico is still my favorite, but I have to watch sugar and carbonation.
 
Posted by Mark Strube (Member # 4190) on 11-07-2013, 12:19 PM:
 
I recently experienced a Freestyle machine that, when choosing a regular 'ol soda (no special flavor added), it quickly spritzed whatever flavoring was last used when I first started pouring, affecting the overall taste of the drink. I poured all of my soda out and refilled.

Do they all do this or was it malfunctioning? What crap.
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 11-07-2013, 05:39 PM:
 
What they should do is, program it so that it squirts 100% of the flavor into the drink during 90% of the pour. The last 10% of pouring time would just be carbonated water or the "base," thereby cleaning the flavor out of the nozzle for the next pour.

Probably had 200 "MBAs" designing this machine and nobody thought of that idea.
 
Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 11-07-2013, 07:18 PM:
 
Well, I'm not an MBA, but I must silently admit that I do have an engineering degree. Still, I do not consider myself extremely bright, but a page or 5 back I came up with the same ingenious idea. Actually not really my idea, because all coffee machines that offer multiple flavours I know off are already doing it that way...
 
Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 11-07-2013, 08:22 PM:
 
quote: Mike Blakesley
What they should do is, program it so that it squirts 100% of the flavor into the drink during 90% of the pour. The last 10% of pouring time would just be carbonated water or the "base," thereby cleaning the flavor out of the nozzle for the next pour.
Good idea but the current form of the machine doesn't know how much 100% is. You just hold the button until you are done pouring.
 
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-07-2013, 09:35 PM:
 
Hold on a minute there guys. Your idea may sound good on paper, but does nobody remember the early 90s "mix-in-the-cup" fountains? They tasted just as awful as these stupid Freestyle machines.
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 11-07-2013, 10:52 PM:
 
quote: Lyle Romer
You just hold the button until you are done pouring.
Well then, just modify the idea a bit. The flavor stuff pours with the plain water base stuff, whatever it is, and when you let off the button, the plain stuff flows just a half-second longer to rinse the nozzle.
 
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-07-2013, 11:55 PM:
 
No Mike, people are stupid. (This is news?)

If the machine is set to run the "clear stuff" for a certain amount of time (even if it is only half a second) when the button is released, there is no way to ensure a proper brix when you get those idiots pushing the button repeatedly because they can't calculate when to let go.

Then again Freestyle machine know nothing of this "brix" thing anyway.
 
Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 11-10-2013, 07:15 PM:
 
quote: Lyle Romer
Good idea but the current form of the machine doesn't know how much 100% is. You just hold the button until you are done pouring.
Handling it like a self-serve coffee machine was probably too much? Just put your EMPTY cup under it and wait until the machine is finished pouring? With modern sensors, you could probably even detect the size of the cup and prevent it from overflowing if somebody puts a different size or a half filled cup under it.

No matter how I look at this, I can only conclude that the current design is just flawed.

Nobody would accept a coffee machine that also serves hot chocolate and hot water (for e.g. tea or instant soup) that would put a human-detectable residue of either coffee or hot chocolate into the hot water. So why should somebody accept a soda machine that essentially does the same?
 
Posted by Martin Brooks (Member # 1269) on 11-30-2013, 04:39 PM:
 
Things must really be good in this world if this is what we have to complain about.

I tried this machine once and frankly, did not really notice any difference, but I didn't do any kind of blind A-B test and I did mix flavors.

But if you have a self-service fountain machine with multiple nozzles, I don't get why Freestyle is necessary anyway. I can mix flavors on the fountain machine just as well.

I remember when New Coke came out and everyone bitched and moaned. There was a guy who led an organization to get Coca-Cola to switch back to the old formula. Then a TV news reporter made him take a blind test and he couldn't tell the difference. You could see him come to the realization that he had been a fool. He disappeared after that. Of course, Coca-Cola did switch back, although many thought the whole thing had been a publicity stunt all along.

Early in this thread, someone mentioned Royal Crown. Back around 1986-1990, RC came out with Royal Crown Premium Cola. Dark glass bottles, cane sugar, no corn syrup, real cola beans, etc. I loved the stuff. Tasted so rich it tasted like it had chocolate in it. It failed and they stopped making it. I was told by a retailer that one of the problems is that people thought it was beer. (At a Fairway, I was carded for buying root beer once. Funny because it was root beer and the cashier didn't know the difference and funny because I was at least 50 at the time.)

Based in part on both the RC experience and nostalgia, I always thought that soda with sugar instead of corn syrup would taste better. Any my ex went to Belize and said that Coke tasted far better there. I thought about it for awhile and since I knew that all concentrate came out of Atlanta, l realized that the only difference could be water quality or cane sugar vs. corn syrup. But recently, a local supermarket had Mexican Coke and I bought it with great anticipation. Glass bottle, cane sugar…I thought it would taste great. Frankly, I thought it tasted like medicine--I was really disappointed, although I shouldn't be consuming those carbs anyway.

But if you want good soda, you wouldn't be drinking any Coke or Pepsi products anyway.
 
Posted by Sean Weitzel (Member # 244) on 11-30-2013, 05:24 PM:
 
I just had my first encounter with a Freestyle machine (I rarely frequent Burger King) and punched up a Diet Coke and holy moley was it bad! It did not resemble Diet Coke whatsoever. Sickeningly sweet with a weird bitter aftertaste. I foolishly neglected to take a sip before I left the store or I would have voiced my opinion.
 
Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 11-30-2013, 07:16 PM:
 
quote: Martin Brooks
Things must really be good in this world if this is what we have to complain about.
So, if Megacorp X screws brand Y, which has been around for like 100+ years and which millions of people love, we cannot complain about it because somewhere on this planet people are still dying of starvation?

quote: Martin Brooks
But if you have a self-service fountain machine with multiple nozzles, I don't get why Freestyle is necessary anyway. I can mix flavors on the fountain machine just as well.
Does your soda fountain also have a nozzle for cherry, orange, lime and coconut with white chocolate sprinkles flavor?

quote: Martin Brooks
I remember when New Coke came out and everyone bitched and moaned. There was a guy who led an organization to get Coca-Cola to switch back to the old formula. Then a TV news reporter made him take a blind test and he couldn't tell the difference.
New Coke is already a few years behind us now, but I guess there were sufficient people that could take out New Coke in a blind taste test. The problem is, many people seeking the spotlight are just there for the attention and not the cause itself... But what are trying to tell here? We shouldn't bitch around if somebody messes up an otherwise good product?

So, if let's say Fox would be announcing that they're going to switch from 2K or 4K to 720p MPEG2 for all their new release, because now the movie can fit on an USB stick or can even be distributed via the crappiest of DSL lines and 8 out of 10 people won't even bother about the difference, we shouldn't complain? Because, we're just bitching for bitching's sake and we still didn't solve world hunger?

quote: Martin Brooks
Glass bottle, cane sugar…I thought it would taste great. Frankly, I thought it tasted like medicine--I was really disappointed, although I shouldn't be consuming those carbs anyway.
You know what's funny? Coke actually was supposed to be a medicine once...
Also, not all Mexican Coke is made from 100% cane sugar. Most of the stuff that hits American stores although is, even still after Coca-Cola Mexico announced they're switching to corn syrup too...

quote: Martin Brooks
But if you want good soda, you wouldn't be drinking any Coke or Pepsi products anyway.
No, good soda should be preferably brewed at home. So, while you're on it, try some Open-source cola for starters, especially if you've got some nutmeg and coriander oil lying around...
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 11-30-2013, 08:45 PM:
 
Making your own soda = a fine idea, but it'd never catch on for the same reason "making your own beer" isn't all that popular...who's got the time? People barely have time to cook freaking dinner anymore, let alone their recreational beverages.

As for complaining about this when there are more pressing issues in the world....why limit yourself in complaints? After expressing your opinion on this, there are probably plenty of message boards you could write to and gripe about the U.S. Government's handling of [insert crisis name here].

If that's not enough complaining you could then write to the editor of several dozen newspapers and gripe about something.

The outlets for complaints are many, and complaining is fun! Hence its popularity.
 
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 12-01-2013, 12:13 AM:
 
I was told a number of years ago by my doctor that everyone is different in terms of nerves, pain thresholds and so forth. I do agree and believe that, but I think in the case of the Freestyle machines, some people just don't have the sensitivity in their taste buds to tell the difference. This isn't putting them down at all, I'm just pointing out that everyone is different and just because some asshat at Coke Corporate can't tell the difference, he is foolishly ASSUMING that nobody else can either. Wrong.

For the record, I have taken the Coke vs. Pepsi taste test many times whenever we ran across a place doing it way back in the day. (I used to come across the tables in malls and various shopping centers back when I was a kid.) I pegged Coke every single time. To me there is a MASSIVE difference in taste, yet I do know many people that just can not tell the difference to save their life. Lucky them...they don't get disgusted when they walk into a restaurant and see a Pepsi sign! Nowadays you can add walking into a fast food place and seeing a Freestyle machine sitting there waiting to pour out carbonated ass water to that.

By the way, even the type of ICE and the CUP used in making the drink, including the AMOUNT of ice makes a difference...but nothing will save the Freestyle.
 
Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 12-01-2013, 11:03 AM:
 
Even the difference between pouring the drink first and then adding the ice later is better.

I do believe that I can see where this machine is coming from. At the Atlanta airport, International departures, none of the food court users serve Coke themselves. They charge for the cup and then they send you to 4 of these machines. With the possible increase in the min.wage, it may well be cheaper to get out of the business of actually pouring it FOR customers.

Multiple machines mean that delays are minimal. Louis

(Notice that I didn't mention quality? No one seems to be concerned about that anymore.)
 
Posted by Victor Liorentas (Member # 5272) on 05-18-2014, 08:45 PM:
 
We started with Coke but they dropped us when we didn't change from the tanks to the bags. So Pepsi jumped right in!

I didn't see this come up in this thread. What is the main cause of excessive foam? Pepsi and diet Pepsi are driving us crazy!
It's most of the time but not always. Seems to be getting worse but it's never a problem with Sprite and Ginger Ale.
I'm talking foam that takes forever to dissipate and wastes so much time when we are busy.
 
Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 05-18-2014, 08:57 PM:
 
Historically foam is worse when the temperature of the syrup and the water is not the same, especially if much over 40F.

Our best result was when National Amusements had a walk in freezer with a 5000 gallon tank for water and the bag n box all set up with recirculating pumps. No foam ever.
 
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 05-18-2014, 09:23 PM:
 
quote: Louis Bornwasser
Even the difference between pouring the drink first and then adding the ice later is better.
Fill the empty glass about 1/3 full, add ice then top off the cup.

Makes a big difference in the taste.
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-18-2014, 09:28 PM:
 
quote:
What is the main cause of excessive foam? Pepsi and diet Pepsi are driving us crazy!
If your syrup lines are cooled by a cold plate in the bottom of your ice bin, be sure to stir the ice up thoroughly at least once a day or more. If the ice is floating on a layer of water at the bottom of the bin, the cold plate isn't as cold as it should be and the syrup doesn't get cooled properly, hence foam.

For us Diet Pepsi always has the most foam no matter what. The rest, no problem.
 
Posted by Victor Liorentas (Member # 5272) on 05-18-2014, 09:54 PM:
 
I'm using pre-mix in tanks not post mix syrup. No bags in box here.
 
Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 05-18-2014, 10:59 PM:
 
If you're using styrofoam cups, count on foamy drinks.

The comments about temperature are also correct. Serving pre-chilled product reduces foaming a lot,
 
Posted by Connor Wilson (Member # 6088) on 06-16-2014, 04:59 PM:
 
Not the biggest fan of these. I once approached a freestyle at a Five Guys to get some water, and there was some juice mixed in the water. I emptied it and refilled it, and then it gave me actual water.

Water is the only thing I drink, anyway.
 
Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 06-19-2014, 02:11 PM:
 
You can expect there to be some residual syrup from the previous product poured. I rarely drink anything other than water myself, but no matter what I'm pouring from one of these, I let it run a few seconds before putting my cup under the dispenser. Especially if I'm drinking water.
 
Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 06-19-2014, 02:28 PM:
 
After being in this business for all these years. I pretty much drink only water now. That's it.

Probably because I've seen the inside of one too many fountain machines...
 
Posted by Steven J Hart (Member # 2340) on 11-13-2014, 07:44 AM:
 
Was at Universal Studios in Orlando this last weekend. They have added another "feature" to the freestyle machines. They sell you a cup with a microchip embedded in the bottom. The freestyle fountain will not dispense unless a properly coded cup is in place. Rinsing the nozzle is only possible here by dispensing into the cup, then dumping it out.

On the Coke vs. Pepsi debate. I purchased my own fountain machine for our small theater. This allows us to have Coca-Cola and Diet Coke along with regional favorite Mountain Dew. Mountain Dew outsells all other drinks at our location. I also installed multiple water filters on the supply to the fountain. This really helps the taste of the soda as our city water supply has a nasty taste. I'd like to go with reverse osmosis filtering, but it wouldn't be practical for supply of a fountain.
 
Posted by Steve Matz (Member # 1890) on 11-13-2014, 09:55 PM:
 
Well COKE has been pissed off at PEPSI going clear back to the days when bottled 6 ounce Coke was a Nickel. Pepsi bought a ton of 12 ounce Bottles from a business and kept the Price at a Nickel for 12 ounces putting a big damper on Coke's domination in the Soft Drink Business. The only Coke Product I liked was when they came out with NEW COKE(which essentially was Pepsi) and Cherry Coke when they started selling it in our State in the 90's. Drank Gallons of that Stuff but eventually got away from it also'

Just recently tried the Mexican Coke which uses pure CANE SUGAR verses Corn Syrup which all the Domestic Mfgers have been using for decades. It comes in 12 ounce Glass Bottles and is considerable more expensive than the Corn Syrup Variety. I also see PEPSI has a Pure Sugar Version out also(probably using Beet Sugar though). Mountain Dew is also in a Sugar Version. Don't really see any significant taste difference between the Sugar Variety and the Corn Syrup Variety; so save your Money

Whats Ironic about COKE & PEPSI is that Both Companies know each other's so called Secret Formula's which I truly believe when they came out with the NEW COKE. If I put a Blindfold on you and gave you a NEW COKE to Drink followed by a PEPSI you wouldn't know the Difference....

quote: Mike Blakesley
For us Diet Pepsi always has the most foam no matter what. The rest, no problem.
The excessive Foam is more than Likely the reaction of using ASPARTAME with POTASSIUM BENZOATE which is a part of Diet Pepsi and other Diet Sodas. Big Controversy for years about ASPARTAME being a Cancer Causing Additive...
 
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 11-13-2014, 11:04 PM:
 
Now that this thread has floated up again, I'm reminded of one more reason I don't like the Freestyle machines.

The ice chute is too long.

It's probably because, in order to pack all the components into such a tight space and maintain the size profile that they wanted, they had to mount the dispensing motor near the top of the machine and route the chute down through a tangle of other components.

Consequently, when you push the ice lever, it takes as long as a second for the ice to fall into your cup. That's not so bad, by itself but, when you release the lever, ice keeps falling as the cubes that are still in the chute fall down.

The upshot of this is that it is difficult to time how long to press the ice lever so that you don't end up with a cup overflowing with ice... which you will have to dump down the drain.

Next time you see one of these machines, look in the drain tray. I bet you'll see it is full of half-melted ice cubes from all the other people who accidentally overfilled their cups with ice and dumped half of it down the drain.

Not only is this a design flaw, I think it's pretty unsightly, too. It don't feel very appetized to drink Coke when I see a slop bin half full of melted ice and spilled soda. Do you?
 
Posted by Jarod Reddig (Member # 6363) on 11-13-2014, 11:44 PM:
 
I hear ya Randy Ive complained to my wife about the damn ice nozzle too.
 
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-15-2014, 11:29 AM:
 
Randy, in addition I don't like getting my hands wet when dispensing a soda because they put the nozzle (which sometimes drips) over where I have to put my cup.

Interestingly I found out a few things about these Freestyle machines this last week. I was inquiring about why some Freestyle machine taste like ass and others taste acceptable and a few actually taste almost indistinguishable from a real fountain. Turns out my assumption was right...software updates. What sucks though is Coke makes the locations PAY for a software update...to make their own product taste more like their own product! That's just dumb.

Also of interest, if you select regular Coke and add ANY flavor to it at all (cherry, lime, etc), you are using the flavor addon that you selected and Coke Zero, not regular Coke. It's the way the machine was designed and explains why the stores go through an insane amount of Coke Zero. People aren't really drinking that much Coke Zero, it's people thinking they are getting regular Coke but want a flavor addon using up all of the Zero syrup cartridge.
 
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 11-15-2014, 12:46 PM:
 
It was pretty clear to me from the start that these machines were conceived and designed as little more than marketing devices.

That's not really a problem. A company (or anybody) has the right to market their product in whatever way they see fit as long as it is legal. (I don't see legality as an issue here.) I do have a problem with marketing at the expense of providing a good product and pushing it off on the public as some kind of improvement when it is really little more than window dressing.

Most people just want to drink Coke. Why should they have to play a stinking video game in order to get it? Why should people have to stand in line while other people, in front of them, fuss with a complex machine? All they really want to do is drink a tasty beverage.

As we have seen, getting a tasty beverage from a Freestyle machine is little more than a crap shoot. You'll get *A* beverage but, unless the machine has had the correct software updates, it might or might not be actually tasty.

As we have seen, pouring a beverage, whether it is actually tasty or not, is a complex affair of pressing virtual buttons on a touch screen which often does not respond to touch then filling a cup with ice from an ice dispenser that sorta-kinda works but which often fills your cup with ice until it overflows. Then, finally, after you have gotten wet hands from a drippy nozzle and after you have overflowed your cup, yet again, with fizzy, foamy, syrupy liquid, you wind up with a product that only loosely resembles Coca Cola.

If you don't believe me, go sit at a table, ten feet away from one of these machines, and watch customers try to use them. It is actually funny to watch people try to use them! (I'm not laughing at the people. I'm laughing at what the machines make the people do just to get a drink.)

This whole Freestyle thing is nothing more than empty marketing designed to make "impressions" on customers and to provide a "fresh" public image but which doesn't really give what it claims to do in the first place.

Maybe you could claim that this is false advertising but, honestly, I'd say that's a stretch. It's not illegal but neither do I find it moral to use "smoke and mirrors" advertising at the expense of proving a good product.

Bottom line: Freestyle = Crapola.
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 11-15-2014, 11:16 PM:
 
Well you're making it sound a little more complicated than it is. The ice dispenser is a simple lever that you just press with your cup and hold until you have as much as you want. If you get too much, dump some out.

Then you press a maximum of two buttons to select the flavor you want, and one "pour" button to run the soda into your cup.

I will grant that the buttons aren't always as responsive as they should be.

Mind you, I'm not saying the product tastes good. I haven't had a lot of experience with these things but I've never had a Coke that I thought tasted real good from one.
 
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 11-16-2014, 12:29 AM:
 
Just sit quietly by, about ten feet away, where you can see but won't be noticed, and watch other people use the machines.
 
Posted by Buck Wilson (Member # 5885) on 11-16-2014, 12:37 AM:
 
I've never had a good beverage from one. Some are better than others, but you can always tell it's from a superconcentrate. It just has a weird tang/zing to it. And yes, I always flush the valve first(WHICH I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO DO)

Still not a fan.
 
Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 11-16-2014, 05:40 PM:
 
quote: Randy Stankey
Most people just want to drink Coke. Why should they have to play a stinking video game in order to get it? Why should people have to stand in line while other people, in front of them, fuss with a complex machine? All they really want to do is drink a tasty beverage.
Sounds like the perfect solution for locations were gambling and slot machines aren't legalized. Give those things a coin slot. Payout will be in "tasty" beverages rather than coins.

quote: Randy Stankey
As we have seen, pouring a beverage, whether it is actually tasty or not, is a complex affair of pressing virtual buttons on a touch screen which often does not respond to touch then filling a cup with ice from an ice dispenser that sorta-kinda works but which often fills your cup with ice until it overflows. Then, finally, after you have gotten wet hands from a drippy nozzle and after you have overflowed your cup, yet again, with fizzy, foamy, syrupy liquid, you wind up with a product that only loosely resembles Coca Cola.
In the near future, you will not only be given a cup, but your own bolt-on-nozzle, a pair of latex gloves and a manual.
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 11-16-2014, 09:00 PM:
 
quote: Randy Stankey
Just sit quietly by, about ten feet away, where you can see but won't be noticed, and watch other people use the machines.
Oh I agree peole are clueless on how to use them. I was stuck in a line behind a lady in a Wendy's yesterday in fact.
 
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 11-16-2014, 11:56 PM:
 
quote:
Sounds like the perfect solution for locations were gambling and slot machines aren't legalized. Give those things a coin slot. Payout will be in "tasty" beverages rather than coins.
Back in the 80's, I remember stories about Coke machines where you had to play a little game in which you had to make the LED display spell "C-O-K-E" by hitting a button to stop the randomly changing letters. Apparently that idea didn't last a month before they had to pull those machines.

I don't remember the details but I do remember reading about it.

quote: Marcel Birgelen
In the near future, you will not only be given a cup, but your own bolt-on-nozzle, a pair of latex gloves and a manual.
... AND a cup with an RFID tag on the bottom of it which tracks what kind of beverage you choose, how many times you refill and that information will be linked back to the credit card number you used at the POS station when you bought your drink so that everything you drink can be used as marketing data.

I'm only half joking, here... [Roll Eyes]

quote: Mike Blakesley
Oh I agree peole are clueless on how to use them. I was stuck in a line behind a lady in a Wendy's yesterday in fact.
While I think that "people" as a group are clueless and, often, downright stupid, I don't agree that "individuals" are stupid unless they are placed in situations where unexpected things happen.

For example, people who are suddenly trapped in a burning building can behave irrationally, for instance, by jumping from windows in high-rise buildings.

Freestyle machines place people in unfamiliar situations when they are forced to make selections on a screen, reach inside small compartments, press levers and push a flashing button just to get a drink.

All that when they just wanted a drink. What they get, instead, is a cup full of something that sorta-kinda, loosely resembles Coke.

It is the machines that are "making" people stupid when they are forced into unfamiliar situations for no tangible reason except for what I like to call "empty marketing."
 
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 11-17-2014, 08:56 AM:
 
Something that Brad mentioned....

When you select Cherry Coke or some other flavor, you really get Coke
Zero.

Bad! Very bad!

Coke Zero has aspartame and acesulfame potassium in it!
Two ingredients that some people are sensitive or allergic to! I mean like "hospital sick!"

Personally, I don't care for aspartame. I'm not so worried about the potential health effects. I just don't like the stuff. But, if somebody who selects "Coke+flavor" unwittingly drinks aspartame or acesulfame then either gets sick or gets upset about consuming artificial sweeteners! the Coca Cola Company could have a whole peck of trouble on its hands!
 
Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 11-17-2014, 09:04 AM:
 
I agree with Randy. Surely a company as large as Coke with lawyers out the wazoo would know this. Brad, what is your source of this information?

quote: Randy Stankey
Now that this thread has floated up again....
I see what you did there! [Big Grin] [beer]
 
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-17-2014, 10:16 AM:
 
A theater executive who inquired to Coke as to why he was going through absurd amounts of Coke Zero. The Coke rep explained it to him directly. It's apparently not a big secret.
 
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 11-17-2014, 11:39 AM:
 
Oh... And apparently, the setup menus on these machines aren't very well protected...

http://youtu.be/o1oyCQwxaX8

Just by pressing a few "secret" buttons, you can access all the settings and service menus.

So, Brad, here's your opportunity! [Wink]

I can't believe that there isn't a pass code on that screen!
 
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-17-2014, 11:44 AM:
 
Sweet. I wonder if the brix can be adjusted through that screen.
 
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 11-17-2014, 11:47 AM:
 
If there is anybody who can tell us that, and how to set it so you get the correct brix, it would be you. [Wink]
 
Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 11-17-2014, 12:27 PM:
 
Doing a Google search, I found this:

http://www.coca-cola.co.uk/freestyle/coca-cola-freestyle.html

Yes, this is a UK site. I wouldn't for a second assume the ingredients are the same as they are for the US. I've never seen "fructose-glucose syrup" on a US nutrition label. According to the ingredients for each flavor, they do use Coca-Cola for flavored Coke choices (not Coke Zero) in the UK, as no artificial sweeteners show up in the list of ingredients for Coca-Cola flavors.

I've been trying and trying and cannot find a similar site for the US. This disturbs me.

I'm still searching.
 
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-17-2014, 01:54 PM:
 
Ken, if you don't want Coke Zero the current solution is simple. Don't add a flavor into it such as cherry or lime. Just pour straight Coke and you will get straight Coke.
 
Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 11-17-2014, 02:05 PM:
 
I don't drink soda. I'm just trying to research this topic. There's no reason not to make nutrition information easily available, unless you have something to hid. Coke apparently does have something to hide.
 
Posted by Mark Hajducki (Member # 1732) on 11-17-2014, 05:37 PM:
 
quote: Ken Lackner
Yes, this is a UK site. I wouldn't for a second assume the ingredients are the same as they are for the US. I've never seen "fructose-glucose syrup" on a US nutrition label.
In the UK Coke (except from Freestyle machines) is made with sugar not fructose-glucose syrup.
 
Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 11-18-2014, 09:47 AM:
 
Upon further reflection and discussion, I'm just not buying it. As I stated previously, there is no way Coca-Cola would leave themselves wide open to lawsuits by doing something ridiculously stupid like this. Additionally, many people can spot the flavor of artificial sweeteners. My friend who used to work at World of Coca-Cola in Atlanta would have known if she was getting Coke Zero out of the Freestyle machines when she selected flavored Coke. She's not the only one. How many times have you seen customers bring back a drink because they were mistakenly given diet when they ordered regular?

quote: Mark Hajducki
In the UK Coke (except from Freestyle machines) is made with sugar not fructose-glucose syrup.
I know this. Hence:

quote: Ken Lackner
I wouldn't for a second assume the ingredients are the same as they are for the US.

 
Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 11-19-2014, 04:54 AM:
 
The ingredients of the two components of the base syrup used by bottling plants is largely the same over the world. There are some small variations, mostly due to regulatory constrains. For example, California introduced some strict regulations regarding certain versions of the caramel coloring used, so they changed it to avoid placing warning labels.

The biggest difference around the globe is the sweeteners being used. While the U.S. and nowadays also Mexico are largely using HFCS, in Europe it's still largely "regular" sugar. There is a noticeable taste difference (especially if you try them side by side), although it is somewhat subtle. The difference between Regular, Diet and Zero is night and day. While Zero may be a tad closer to the Regular variation than Diet (or Light), those alternative (or rather artificial) sweeteners are easily detectable and I do not like them. I even detect them in semi-diet products, those who mix regular sugars with one or two of those alternatives (aspartame, sucralose or even stevia).

What goes into the Freestyle machines is obviously different, as it must have a higher concentration than the regular syrup. Still, why would you want to use "Zero" as a base for the flavored versions?

What would make some sense is to use artificial sweeteners in the additives. So, the cherry flavor would, for example, contain aspartame instead of sugar or HFCS, so if you mix it with the diet/zero version of the drink, it remains free of sugar.

I only had limited encounters with those machines so far, the last one was in the U.K. I remember them offering both regular and Coke Zero with flavors. So, this difference is there only for marketing purposes?
 
Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 11-19-2014, 12:28 PM:
 
I highly doubt it. I am sure that when a customer selects Coke and adds a flavor, they are, in fact, getting Coke, not Coke Zero.

quote: Marcel Birgelen
Still, why would you want to use "Zero" as a base for the flavored versions?
You wouldn't.

quote: Marcel Birgelen
What would make some sense is to use artificial sweeteners in the additives. So, the cherry flavor would, for example, contain aspartame instead of sugar or HFCS, so if you mix it with the diet/zero version of the drink, it remains free of sugar.
I don't agree that this would make sense. You would have customers unknowingly adding artificial sweeteners to their flavored Coke or Sprite, with no warning or indication they are doing so. I'm not sure why the flavor has to be sweetened at all, artificially or with sugar; the base soda is already plenty sweet.

Taking a close look at the UK Freestyle site (and again, I wouldn't assume the ingredients are the same as they are in the US; but let's assume most of them are and the only major difference is HFCS vs. sugar), it doesn't seem like the flavors themselves are sweetened. When I look at nutritional information for Coke and Coke Cherry, no artificial sweeteners appear in the Cherry version; if the flavor itself had artificial sweeteners in it, they would. Similarly, no sugar sweeteners appear in the Diet Coke flavors.
 
Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 11-19-2014, 01:43 PM:
 
For some flavor additives, you probably don't need any additional sweetener, but I'm not entirely convinced it works for every flavor additive equally well. I'm also not sure if they're obliged to label their products with warnings for artificial sweeteners. Does the Diet or Zero option on the machine show any warnings like: contains Aspartame or sucralose?

Back in 2003 or so, Coca Cola offered "Flavor Rage" packets with flavors like Cherry and Vanilla to go with your fountain drinks. Those packets contained artificial sweeteners to make them compatible with their diet drinks. The stuff tasted awful by the way.
 
Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 11-19-2014, 02:20 PM:
 
Obviously there is no requirement for a warning label such as "Warning: contains artificial sweeteners," as diet drinks on the shelves do not have this. But the sweetener is listed in the ingredients on the back. In this case, the list of ingredients for Coke Cherry on Coke's Freestyle UK site does not contain aspartame or any other artificial sweetener. (And I never was able to find similar information for the US.) This is what leads me to believe that the flavor itself is not sweetened.
 
Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 11-19-2014, 05:30 PM:
 
Fruity flavor components without sugar. Sounds delicious and very natural. [Wink]

I guess Coca Cola is obliged to list nutritional information regarding all the products they sell publicly, maybe not on their machines, but at least somewhere online?
 
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 11-19-2014, 05:42 PM:
 
quote: Marcel Birgelen
Fruity flavor components without sugar. Sounds delicious and very natural.
That's exactly what packaged Kool-Aid is, only in powdered form.

So, theoretically, I guess that means if you wanted Cherry Coke, you could buy regular Coke and sprinkle in a little bit of cherry flavored Kool-Aid!

Eew! I bet that would taste horrible! [puke]

BTW: "Fructose-Glucose Syrup" is high fructose corn syrup. Different countries labeling requirements dictate what it can be called.

Corn syrup is chemically fractioned in order to separate the fructose from the glucose. Then, the two are mixed back together to produce the sweetness and flavor profile necessary to make the product taste the way it is "supposed" to.

According to law, ingredients must be listed in order of concentration or amount, greatest first.

Thus, if the mixture is 51% or more fructose and 49% or less glucose, it must be called "fructose-glucose." If it is the other way around, 51% or more glucose, it must be called "glucose-fructose."

So, basically, "fructose-glucose syrup" is just corn syrup.
 
Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 11-20-2014, 02:31 AM:
 
Yeah, many of those artificial flavors do not contain any form of sugar. Then again, you would expect Coke to use something more "natural", like something based on some actual essential oils, which would naturally include some amount of sugar. Their original formula is also nothing more than a few essential oils diluted to almost homeopathic levels, a heavy dose of caramel coloring, a shitload of sugar*, carbonated water and a hint of caffeine.

I'm always under the impression Cherry Coke (the bottled stuff) has a somewhat sweeter taste to it than Regular Coke. It might just be my mind playing tricks on me though and it might also vary slightly from bottler to bottler.

* Depending on your location... etc. etc.
 
Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 01-08-2015, 01:38 PM:
 
I've had 2 experiences with the Freestyle machines now.

The Sprite I bought tasted a bit like Barq's root beer to me. I refilled the drink, and it tasted better. This was at a Wendy's location.

The 2nd was at a Zaxby's... It partially filled my drink and stopped running. The kid that came out to fix it said it ran out of syrup. I noticed that most of the drink selections on the screen were not working, too. BTW: the partially filled drink tasted awful, so I had them give me a refund on it. By the time I was finished with the sandwich, they were still trying to reset the machine. I was not the only one that complained about this machine.
 
Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 12-26-2016, 05:16 PM:
 

It has been 718 days since the last post.


 
Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 12-26-2016, 05:16 PM:
 
My biggest complaint about the Free Style machines is they are never adequately stocked. To the best of my knowledge the only one in my community is at the Jack In The Box. From time to time I stop in for a Cherry Vanilla Dr. Pepper. More often than not the machined is out of one of the three ingredients. I've never worked with one so I don't know how much work they take, but it does appear that keeping them stocked is a task.
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 12-26-2016, 05:45 PM:
 
From what I've heard about them (not much, admittedly), keeping them stocked should be simple because they just have these little flavor cartridges which get micro-measured into the larger base-liquid and then carbonated water is added. So it should be about the same as changing an ink cartridge in a printer. Plus the machines are supposedly internet-connected so they reorder their supplies automatically as needed.

It probably comes down to some broom-pusher in the venue who is not paying attention and restocking the thing. Or maybe Coke sends somebody around quarterly or monthly to do it.

I may have noted this before, but one time I walked up to a Freestyle and attempted to get a Classic Coke. All of the other Coke flavors were available but regular Coke was "not available." I don't understand that one at all.
 
Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 12-26-2016, 09:03 PM:
 
It's been a long time ago, but I heard the machines dispense regular Coke in much the same way as any other fountain dispenser. It's the "boutique" combos that get the flavor cartridge treatment. If that's true, it might explain why they were out of the one flavor.

I don't notice any trouble with regular coke out of the Freestyle machines, but anything else leaves an aftertaste that takes hours to work out of my system.

So... I avoid the machines and places that use them.
 
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 12-26-2016, 11:41 PM:
 
I have having to push several buttons just to get a Coke.
It's like playing a video game!

I want a "Just give me a Coke" button!
 
Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 12-27-2016, 10:05 AM:
 
The machines are on line to both the store manager's cell phone and to Coke HQ. Yes the cartridges are exactly like ink cartridges.

Taste issues aside, the system works well.

My personal thoughts on taste: places with water issues seem to have a greater problem with bad tasting cokes using the new machines . This actually makes sense because the old style syrup is about 95% water, so the local water has less effect on taste. Louisville seems to do OK with the new machines; we have water that tests better than most bottled water and in the top 5% for purity.
 
Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 12-27-2016, 12:09 PM:
 
Louis- - not having worked on the concession side of things, other than
having to occasionally un-plug clogged soda dispenser drains, I always
assumed that Coke 'filtered' or otherwise somehow conditioned local
water sources so the product always tasted the same, no matter where
you got it. Am I wrong in that assumption?
 
Posted by Mike Spaeth (Member # 524) on 12-27-2016, 02:53 PM:
 
To answer the question about Coke vs flavored Cokes. The plain Coke is made with the Coke cartridge + HFCS. The flavors use the Coke Zero cartridge + HFCS. The machine must have been out of the Coca-Cola cartridge.
 
Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 12-27-2016, 03:13 PM:
 
quote: Louis Bornwasser
Taste issues aside, the system works well.
Pretty much says it all...
 
Posted by Mark Ogden (Member # 43) on 12-27-2016, 03:21 PM:
 
Few people have probably encountered one, but Pepsi has, or had, their own version of this machine called the "Spire". I ran into one at some fast food Chinese place in Pasadena awhile back. Same idea as the Freestyle, but it had a much larger screen and a cooler design. Worked well enough, I got my drink out of it, but they seem to have abandoned it. I can't even get the website for it to load, and I have never seen one here in the NYC area. As a Pepsi preferrer, I had some hopes for it. I wonder if Coke's market share is that huge that it made it unprofitable or impractical to keep developing it.
 
Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 12-27-2016, 03:32 PM:
 
quote: Jim Cassedy
I always assumed that Coke 'filtered' or otherwise somehow conditioned local water sources so the product always tasted the same, no matter where you got it.
It is possible Coke might do this in some flagship locations, but not as a general practice. Our theatre is on a well with extremely hard water. Simply softening the water was not enough to remove the mineral taste, so we had to install a reverse osmosis system. To the best of my knowledge, Coke has never paid a penny to help cover the cost of this system or the on going maintenance expenses.
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-20-2017, 08:16 PM:
 
My wife went to the movies today at the Carmike->AMC Shilo 14 in Billings. She said their concession counters look bland and bare because they have taken out all their soda machines and put in two (2) Coke Freestyle machines. This is for a 14-screen plex that has six concession stations and about 2000 seats total.

Lynn said there were only two people in the lobby in front of her and she STILL had to wait in line behind them to get her soda. I can't imagine what it will be like on the night of a huge blockbuster opening.

They charged her $5.79 for a 32-ounce "medium" cup that she had to fill herself.

Sheeez, no wonder people are staying home in droves.

(By the way, here at the single-screen Roxy, we charge $3.04 less for the same thing, and we fill it for you, and I hate having to charge that much.)
 
Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 04-20-2017, 10:40 PM:
 
I just had to raise my concession prices on April 1 to account for a new provincial sales tax on popcorn, candy and drinks. None of the customers have commented about it, though.

Even though the prices seem high to me (and even higher now) I guess they're still cheap compared to other places.
 
Posted by Buck Wilson (Member # 5885) on 04-22-2017, 04:11 PM:
 
Large popcorn- $9.23
Large drink- $6.84

And this is in one of the lowest cost of living areas in the nation. And Regal ups the price regularly. I'd say a dime or 2 every 6 months is what it's been going up for the last while
 
Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 04-22-2017, 05:20 PM:
 
Large popcorn: $6.00 including taxes.
Large drink: $3.00 including taxes.

(Prior to April 1 the large popcorn was $5.00)
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-22-2017, 10:42 PM:
 
Our "Large" soda is $2.75 (32 oz) and we have "XL" (44 oz) for $3.75.

Large 85oz popcorn $4.75 and XL 130oz is $5.75.

Our best selling item is probably our Couple Combo which is an XL popcorn and 2 Large drinks for $9.75.
 
Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 04-23-2017, 06:29 PM:
 
quote: Justin Hamaker
It is possible Coke might do this in some flagship locations, but not as a general practice. Our theatre is on a well with extremely hard water. Simply softening the water was not enough to remove the mineral taste, so we had to install a reverse osmosis system. To the best of my knowledge, Coke has never paid a penny to help cover the cost of this system or the on going maintenance expenses.
Coca Cola indeed doesn't require you to install a filter system in regions were the tap water is drinkable. Especially in warmer climates, this often results in a noticeable chlorine taste in fountain drinks.

Some franchises like McDonald's have mandatory reverse osmosis systems in place for their fountain drinks.

Whenever your tap water has a highly noticeable "taste discoloration" it's probably a wise decision to invest in a reverse osmosis system. You can use the filtered water for other purposes too, like your coffee machine if you have one.
 
Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 04-23-2017, 09:05 PM:
 
Couldn't agree more. When we moved into our current house the tap water tasted seriously vile (much more so, interestingly, than at our previous home, which is only four miles away). After some online research, I bought this Express Water system, which at time was on sale for $150, including a year's supply of filter cartridges and a spare UV bulb.

We couldn't be more pleased with it: the difference in taste between water straight from the faucet and water that has come through this thing is astonishing (and if I described the gross and disgusting slime in the old filters on removal in any significant detail, you wouldn't want to eat your dinner tonight). The filters need replacing every six months and the RO membrane and the UV bulb annually: total cost per year in filtration consumables is probably around $50. It's a bit of a faff to install and half an hour of messiness to swap out the filters, but it's still an improvement over messing around with jugs, and a lot cheaper than buying bottled water to drink.

Presumably you can get a slightly heavier duty version of something like this to feed a soda fountain system. Given the rate of water flow, I'm not sure that this one would be up to it.
 
Posted by Jarod Reddig (Member # 6363) on 05-02-2017, 08:48 PM:
 
Still for me I love a Coke from Mcdonalds with either a wax or styrofoam cup. Coke from a glass bottle being my favorite. My local spots with Freestyle seem to have gotten a bit better tasting. Unless Im just getting used to them but ive gotten better and better tasting drink from them. Still the Sprite is always off to me.
 
Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 05-02-2017, 09:04 PM:
 
The real future of bad soda is the way that Pepsi is screwing up some of their Mt. Dew flavors by secretly replacing some of the sugar with sucralose and other artificial sweeteners.

Somehow they think that this won't be noticeable. However, anybody with taste buds will immediately notice the chemical aftertaste. It's bad enough that they've introduced new flavors using this recipe (most recently Dew S.A.).

It is even worse when they take a good flavor (Game Fuel Citrus Cherry) and re-release it with artificial sweeteners mixed in.

If I want diet soda I'll buy diet soda. Note to soft drink makers: The nanny state people aren't going to like you any better because you slightly reduced the calories. Stop making hybrid diet/regular sodas. If you are going to do it, be upfront about it.

Artificial sweeteners, at least when used in drinks, taste NOTHING like sugar or high fructose corn syrup. When somebody creates one that does and doesn't have a chemical aftertaste, they will make countless billions of dollars.
 
Posted by Buck Wilson (Member # 5885) on 05-02-2017, 11:02 PM:
 
Artificial sweeteners suck ass. That's the first thing I look at.
 
Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 05-09-2017, 10:43 PM:
 
As does high fructose corn syrup, hence the popularity of Mexican Coke. It sells out at the supermarkets around here so quickly that sometimes we have to buy it on Amazon.
 
Posted by James Wyrembelski (Member # 9037) on 05-11-2017, 07:04 PM:
 
Agreed. Tried it for the first time this week. Really enjoy the Sprite and I rarely drink soda. Even in our tiny town I've noticed the Mexican soda products go quite quickly.
 
Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 05-12-2017, 09:19 PM:
 
Coca Cola recently relaunched Sprite in the Dutch market to become entirely sugar free, so the "Zero" became the new "Standard" or "Classic". I'm pretty sure if this doesn't fly into their faces and people keep buying the stuff, they'll do the same in many other markets.

And as a regular traveler between HFCS and real sugar markets, I totally agree with the following statement: HFCS sucks like a super massive black hole on super massive steroids.
 




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