Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Taking over a Theater options

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Posted by Christopher Lani (Member # 7952) on 01-19-2014, 05:06 PM:

Hi Everyone! I am taking over a single screen art-deco theater at the end of February and have a number of operational questions. We are converting to digital and staying first run and was wondering if anyone books their own films. Are there advantages/disadvantages I should be aware of? Credit and cash flow are fine. Also, has anyone found a way of getting around holding a film on the break for 3 weeks. We are one of the most geographically isolated theaters in the lower 48 with a county population of 4,500 and we have not had a single film do well in it's 3rd week except for "Frozen". The closest theater to us is 189 miles away! Does anyone out there also play alternative content such as live sports and older, classic films along with their first run features. We are going with a Christie Solaria one plus and I was wondering if there are any recommendations for the additional equipment that will be needed. Thanks!

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-19-2014, 08:39 PM:

quote: Christopher Lani
has anyone found a way of getting around holding a film on the break for 3 weeks. We are one of the most geographically isolated theaters in the lower 48 with a county population of 4,500 and we have not had a single film do well in it's 3rd week except for "Frozen".

We are in a town of 2000 and we have done a few 3-week bookings. What I do is, if I KNOW we're going to have it for three weeks I'll put the start and end dates on the marquee for all to see. That seems to spread the crowd out a bit.

Also, depending on what you are grossing, you should be able to get most "typical" movies for 2 weeks minimum, not 3. The ones that tend to be 3-weekers are blockbuster sequels and super-hyped movies like "Twilight" and "Hunger Games."

Posted by Christopher Lani (Member # 7952) on 01-19-2014, 09:35 PM:

Thanks Mike!

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 01-19-2014, 10:05 PM:

If you're that isolated, is there any reason why you have to play first-run? It's not like your crowd will have already gone down the street and seen the movies elsewhere if you wait a couple of weeks and play stuff further down the schedule. It'll usually cost you less and you can play stuff for one week instead of two, giving your customers a new(er) movie to watch every week instead of every couple of weeks.

Posted by Christopher Lani (Member # 7952) on 01-20-2014, 11:49 AM:

Frank, that is what I normally do. But on occasion everyone around here enjoys a premier that is in sync with the rest of the world and see a movie on it's release date. I have done this with The Twilight Movies, The Hunger Games, The Hobbit, Star Trek. They all did well but died in the third weeks. They wont let me stack in the third week either. Most of the time I do wait 2 to 4 weeks to bring in a movie a week. That's the way my customers like it. I am just seeing if anyone knows a way out of the three week commitment. Anyone know a good booking agency out here in the west? I am 4 hours north of Las Vegas.

Posted by Mike Frese (Member # 4361) on 01-20-2014, 01:21 PM:

In your case, I would not book anything on the break for 3 weeks. Just wait the 2-3 weeks. With digital, the wait will be less than with film.

I believe a new person should not book their own movies for at least a year or two. But, if you already have a working relationship with the studios booking yourself I see no reason to change. It takes very little time to do.

For most movies with an expected box office of $150 million or more you will have a hard time getting them to accept a 2 week run.

I would not only play 2-3 weeks old but I would split as much as possible (you may have to wait a couple more weeks to do this) and play for 2 weeks getting a new movie every week.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-20-2014, 03:46 PM:

quote: Mike Frese
For most movies with an expected box office of $150 million or more you will have a hard time getting them to accept a 2 week run.

I think the expected gross is not as relevant as the "screen count" the studio wants to achieve. We played 12 movies on the break last year, all but two for 2 weeks.

The key is to be very selective on what you play on the break. If a movie is well-hyped and reasonably guaranteed to have great word-of-mouth, then go on the break. Watch the buzz on Facebook, and poll your customers on your own Facebook page to gauge excitement. (If you don't have a Facebook page, get one...it's free advertising and a LOT of your audience will see it.)

Another thing is to hold off till the last minute to commit yourself, and be flexible. We had been told "THREE WEEKS OR NOTHING!" on the first Hobbit movie, but wound up being able to book it starting in week 2 for 2 weeks. We were told the same thing on the most recent Hunger Games movie (and we didn't book it because of that) but then a neighboring theater was able to book it for 2 weeks because the studio was trying to make the numbers.

Posted by Terry Lynn-Stevens (Member # 7349) on 01-20-2014, 05:31 PM:

quote: Christopher Lani
We are one of the most geographically isolated theaters in the lower 48 with a county population of 4,500 and we have not had a single film do well in it's 3rd week except for "Frozen".

Mike has one of the best set-ups I have ever seen, a movie comes in for one week and then it is out. Frank also has a decent set-up as well.

You are going to make more money if you are booking off release. This also gives you a chance to assess the situation, you are not stuck with a flop and you can select the big hit that people will now want to watch. Booking Lone Survivor in the 2nd or 3rd week is better than taking a gamble on Jack Ryan with a new release. Who would of predicted the success of Ride Along?

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-20-2014, 06:33 PM:

quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens
Mike has one of the best set-ups I have ever seen, a movie comes in for one week and then it is out

It has its advantages for sure, and also its disadvantages. We just have a different tool set than the big boys. The biggest disadvantage is, we often have to miss out on some big titles because we just don't have the time/space for everything we'd like to play. (Well I could go into how we don't get any promotional help and that kind of thing, but that's another thread.)

However this:

quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens
You are going to make more money if you are booking off release.

....is not true in most cases. In the case of a heavily promoted movie, it will do up to twice the business in those first couple of weeks as it would if we waited until three or four weeks in. Part of this is because we are relatively close to Billings (which has 24 first-run screens). In Christopher's case he is apparently more isolated than we are, BUT I guarantee that the movie fans in his town are just as excited about the brand new movies as the fans in the cities are. Excitement equals ticket sales. But there are plenty of small towns around where the fans are just used to waiting a few weeks for their movies to show up, so if that works, then great.

Another thing to consider is the sliding aggregate. That means a movie costs the same percentage in Week 6 as it does in Week 1. Disney, Warners and Paramount are all doing this now. So if I *know* I'm going to play a particular film, I'd rather take a chance on one dead week out of 3, and make a ton of money in weeks 1 and 2...providing there isn't something better to play during that time frame, of course.

quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens
Booking Lone Survivor in the 2nd or 3rd week is better than taking a gamble on Jack Ryan with a new release.

You can almost never book something in the 2nd week, and often not in the 3rd either. If you don't take it on the break you're usually "out" until week 4, because all the "prints" are on screens and they can't be bothered to make more "prints." (Don't get me started on the stupidity of that, but that's the way it is.) And if a movie blows up and becomes an unexpected hit, you might be stuck waiting for a "print" until week 7 or 8.

Posted by Robert E. Allen (Member # 1351) on 01-20-2014, 09:36 PM:

Don't do your own booking. A good booker has more pull with the distributors as he/she is often treated like a theatre chain. I use Frank Rash. Give him a call at 480-324-1290. Tell him I told you to call.

Bob

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-20-2014, 10:11 PM:

quote: Christopher Lani
Does anyone out there also play alternative content such as live sports and older, classic films along with their first run features.

I would love to try something in the alternative realm but we haven't done anything yet. I keep thinking about a free-admission football game on the big screen.

quote: Christopher Lani
We are going with a Christie Solaria one plus and I was wondering if there are any recommendations for the additional equipment that will be needed.

Do you have the proper set-up for sound? (Surrounds wired separately for L & R, and three stage speakers + subwoofers?) You will also want to add a high-quality Blu-Ray player for those inevitable times when you want to run a kids matinee and there are no "prints." A few people are having success with hooking up a game system and renting auditoriums to gamers for blocks of time.

Posted by Buck Wilson (Member # 5885) on 01-21-2014, 12:57 AM:

Christopher, that is a very neat theater!

Best of luck to you and yours.

Posted by Christopher Lani (Member # 7952) on 01-21-2014, 01:36 AM:

First of all, this page has been the most valuable resource for a theater operator that I have encountered! It has been a lifesaver and I am blown away by the responses and insights that I have gleaned from all of you. You are right, the Facebook page has been an invaluable resource and it is freeee! If anyone is interested in seeing the page it is located at

https://www.facebook.com/ElysCentralTheater

We have 1134 likes. Amazing. We do have an excellent sound system that was updated in 2000. It has the L/R separately wired surround sound with the 3 stage speakers and Sub. It sounds excellent. We are planning on the blu-ray player. Any suggestions? Gaming is definitely in the mix too. In terms of the Media Block, or the unit that handles all the inputs and sound, would you all go with Dolby? GDC? Doremi? Any input would help. Is the Solaria one plus a good unit to go with? We are also planning on sports events. Thanks Robert, I will give Frank a call! Thanks Robert. And thank you too Buck!

Posted by David E. Nedrow (Member # 4981) on 01-23-2014, 04:08 PM:

Florin Creative is the booker we use. Steve Florin has been really good to us with the films he gets. We've had just about every big release I can think of, given the constraints of a single screen.

Florin Creative
Steve Florin
914-937-1603

Posted by Mike Frese (Member # 4361) on 01-23-2014, 11:21 PM:

1) 189 miles!!! Who is going to drive 189 miles to see a movie 2-3 weeks sooner?

2) Booking: Robert says Frank Rash is saying you have a year before you need to convert to digital. Paramount has said no more film. I would not use any booker who is recommending people who are opening closed theaters now or in the last month that they can wait a year before converting to digital.

3) Booking point #2: as long as your are respectful to the studio reps and pay your film rental on time; booking yourself is pretty easy and takes very little time and effort.

4) Booking point #3: I have heard stories that booking the surprise hits after just 1 or 2 weeks is much easier to do being digital and NOT having a VPF.

5) Booking point #4: Totally agree with Mike B. about the agg. stuff. But again 189 miles!! You can get away with waiting 7 weeks to play a Disney title.

Posted by Robert E. Allen (Member # 1351) on 01-24-2014, 08:15 PM:

Mike, Frank has met with a number of directors many times and has a better handle on the situation than we do. So don't assume you know more about what is coming down the pike than he does. He's been in the business for many years. There are still about a thousand theatres running film. If I can afford to go digital sooner I will. But I'm not among those who panicked several years ago and jumped on the digital bandwagon.

Posted by Mike Frese (Member # 4361) on 01-25-2014, 12:34 AM:

quote: Robert E. Allen
Mike, Frank has met with a number of directors many times and has a better handle on the situation than we do.

What the heck does that have to do with anything?

quote: Robert E. Allen
There are still about a thousand theatres running film.

And those thousand theaters equal maybe 5% of a film's gross. Such a small amount that Paramount chose to ignore them. Such a small amount that the rest are barely satisfying them.

Bob, what are you playing this week? How any choices of movies did you have this week? Most theaters running film that I know of are complaining about poor selection.

Why anyone would move halfway across the country and put time and resources to operate a theater without a plan to convert to digital is beyond me.

Posted by Robert E. Allen (Member # 1351) on 01-25-2014, 01:37 PM:

I got "Nut Job" on the break and I'm still playing it. I have brought in "A Madea Christmas" for my second screen. Both are doing well. The only picture that disappointed me was "Anchorman 2". There were 2 nights when no one showed up for that. Had I known it was just a piece of garbage I never would have booked it here in the Bible Belt.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-25-2014, 05:43 PM:

quote: Mike Frese
1) 189 miles!!! Who is going to drive 189 miles to see a movie 2-3 weeks sooner?

You would be amazed at how much people who live in "the sticks" are willing to drive. Here in Montana, people will literally drive 500 miles to see a BALL GAME that their kid "might" get to play in (no guarantees). So going 189 miles to see a long-awaited blockbuster would be seen as a fun road trip for some people.

quote: Mike Frese
2) Booking: Robert says Frank Rash is saying you have a year before you need to convert to digital.

If you're not picky about what you play, sure I'd believe you have a year or maybe more. So what's going to happen in a year? You might be down to one two or three film companies. And then, all of a sudden what if those last couple of companies decide to pull the 35mm plug? Remember, Paramount gave almost no advance notice...they waited until a couple of weeks before Anchorman and decided that was going to be it. Just pick any two studios at random and see how long you could survive playing ONLY their titles. It can take months to spec out, order and install a digital system. How many of us can afford to be closed, or playing crap movies during that waiting time? We sure can't.

quote: Mike Frese
4) Booking point #3: I have heard stories that booking the surprise hits after just 1 or 2 weeks is much easier to do being digital and NOT having a VPF.

This is true. We've had it happen several times....although the "after 1 week" thing is rare but it does happen.

quote: Mike Frese
You can get away with waiting 7 weeks to play a Disney title.

But doing what you can "get away with" is bad for business. I would rather get movies faster while people are hot to see them...it makes them excited to come to the movies. People around here are really vocal about their appreciation that we work hard to bring movies in FAST.

Posted by Andrew Thomas (Member # 7000) on 01-25-2014, 11:55 PM:

Why book a big Disney movie any later than when you can first get it? They are full time sliding scale now, right? So booking week 1 vs. week 8 has nothing to do with your film rental percentage...

Also, we are digital with a VPF in a small town and haven't had any issue booking content on the break if we wanted it, or in the 2nd or 3rd week. Only studio that has shown any hesitation is Sony with Robocop. But that is one of the movies where we will just skip it if we can't get it on the break. Think that one is going to flop pretty hard after the opening weekend.

We also have been able to get several movies from Paramount on the break for only 2 week commitments. Our booker is pretty great.

Posted by Mike Frese (Member # 4361) on 01-26-2014, 08:18 AM:

quote: Andrew Thomas
Why book a big Disney movie any later than when you can first get it? They are full time sliding scale now, right? So booking week 1 vs. week 8 has nothing to do with your film rental percentage

No. Disney charges the same film rental no matter when you play it on the initial break run. And the percent goes up the better the movie performs. For example, (I think these have gone up again) if a movie grosses $60 m over it's initial 7 weeks (or whatever time they decide to use), the film rental was 49%. If it did $160 m, the rental was 54%. Do over $300 m and the rental was 60% to a high of 63% if over $400.

The declining sliding scale was being used less and less.

If the VPF is not causing you any problem, that means you must be grossing pretty good (take that as a compliment please). Meaning that you historically gross at least $3000 on a movie on the break. There were many theaters in my area that would gross $1500 or less often when playing movies on the break.

Robert: I would be feeling pretty disappointed playing Madea's Christmas right now. Especially in a area with little minority population (yes I am aware that this movie is his most diverse regarding casting) and since we are month past Christmas. What was your other choices to play this week? If there was none, then I would say that your lack of digital is hurting you now. Just to be able to play something should not be your criteria of being able to delay digital conversion. Do you have your financing in place? Or what equipment you are going to use in place?

Robert #2: Are you saying that Anchorman 2 was garbage because ticket sales were bad? Or the content was bad? Knowing that you are against sexual content and bad language I am surprised your booker even booked it for you in the first place. There were no surprises in this movie with just a little homework. Did he not know your adversity towards sexual content and bad language?

Posted by Andrew Thomas (Member # 7000) on 01-26-2014, 04:07 PM:

Yes, we are saying the same thing but defining the terms differently. Disney sets the percentage for first run movies not based on the week of play, but now by the aggregate national number. So the scale changes not over time, but over the trajectory of the sales of the film at the national level. So it doesn't make sense to wait until week 8 to book Frozen if you can book it week 1.

As for our box office numbers. I think we have had one movie not crack that $2000 mark over its 2 weeks (Saving Mr. Banks) here. Some, like Frozen and Nut Job will do 7-8k over two weeks, and 10-12 over the 4 weeks we run kids movies. We are a small town, but not micro (about 25k in the city proper, 35k in the surrounding 5 mile radius).

And we only charge $5.00 a ticket...

Posted by Terry Lynn-Stevens (Member # 7349) on 01-26-2014, 04:42 PM:

quote: Andrew Thomas
So it doesn't make sense to wait until week 8 to book Frozen if you can book it week 1.

All depends on how you look at it, Frozen is not a good example as it was almost a sure hit as there was no competition. But some movies you really are not sure of how they are going to do so it is better to book in week 2, 3 or thereafter.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-26-2014, 05:29 PM:

For the studios using the sliding aggregate system, all their movies are on the system. It doesn't matter if a movie is a guaranteed hit or not, it will gross more when you get it faster -- which of course leads to better concession sales.

So in the case of Disney and other aggregate studios, it boils down to how long you think the movie will play. If you think it's only a one-week title, let it wait a while....but if it looks like a slam-dunk, there's no reason not to go on the break.

Posted by Mike Frese (Member # 4361) on 01-26-2014, 08:06 PM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
So in the case of Disney and other aggregate studios, it boils down to how long you think the movie will play. If you think it's only a one-week title, let it wait a while....but if it looks like a slam-dunk, there's no reason not to go on the break.

What if it is a firm 3 week run? (sometimes you can get them to agree to a hold over gross)

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-27-2014, 08:55 PM:

Well like I said, sometimes a title is worth 3 weeks and sometimes not. I've found that with a non-sequel or non-blockbuster or otherwise "unknown quantity" they will usually let us book for 2 weeks; but if it's something with gigantic pre-awareness, they want three but will sometimes back down to two if they don't get the numbers they're looking for.

Posted by Ky Boyd (Member # 23) on 01-30-2014, 01:06 AM:

Use a film buyer. I highly recommend Doug Endicott and Mark Schulte at Exhibitor Support Partnership: 323-951-0135. www.espfilmbuyers.com

Posted by Jeff Eisentraut (Member # 1121) on 02-01-2014, 05:08 PM:

I have always done my own booking. My competitors use bookers and there have been many times where I scratch my head on the moves they make. Booking decisions are way too big to give to someone else...I must be a control-freak. BTW, I still book 2 theatres with 35mm and just received a letter last week from Paramount saying that they will indeed still offer 35mm on select films. I believe Wolf of Wall Street was a test of the Digital-only platform.