quote: Leo Enticknap

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At the AFI Fest in November, there was a dispute over cellphone use that led to a spot of vigilante justice. The funny thing was that it didn't happen during a gnarly Tarantino pic that you might expect to inspire such a confrontation, but a Victorian costume drama.

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quote: Leo Enticknap

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you'd expect someone on the receiving end of that to have reported it to the police, but he didn't.

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Suggests there may be a reason the person doesn't want to talk to the police.
 

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Posted by Steve Matz (Member # 1890) on 04-01-2015, 10:03 PM:
 
I've seen numerous times people that have been in Bars/Clubs attending usually the 9:00 pm showings at a Multiplex here. I think if you have a situation where a Movie Goer looks intoxicated or is acting erratic while purchasing a ticket, you should be able to refuse that person a Ticket. Nobody likes to be around an obnoxious drunk except another one. They only ruin the evening for Movie Patrons who came to watch a Feature they wanted to see and don't need some Drunk ruining their Evening ...
 

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Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 04-02-2015, 06:16 AM:
 
I think it will be better to outright refuse entry to anybody visibly intoxicated, but a lot of people try to avoid the confrontation and just hope for the best...
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-02-2015, 11:32 AM:
 
Plus some people are pretty good at sneaking their booze in.
 

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 04-02-2015, 02:10 PM:
 
Kind of a sidebar... I grew up in a bar. My parents owned one when I was a kid. It was attached to my house. Lived there from birth until I went away to college...

In the "old days" when somebody got "shut off" the custom was to pour the guy a "shorty" (half a beer in a small glass) then give it to him "on the house" and tell him, "All right... This is your last one."

Kind of a long way-about to say that people often forget the importance of treating customers with a certain dignity, even if they are out of line, in a way that lets them "save face."

Yeah... I've seen a few bar fights in my day. My dad could be a real ass kicker when he wanted to be but, even in those days, bar fights were VERY rare.

I think it had to do, mostly, with the fact that Dad treated customers with that "certain respect" even though he still didn't take "no" for an answer and would back that up with his fists if he neeed to.

Sadly, those days seem to be long gone...
 

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Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 04-04-2015, 11:45 PM:
 

quote: Randy Stankey

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I think it had to do, mostly, with the fact that Dad treated customers with that "certain respect" even though he still didn't take "no" for an answer and would back that up with his fists if he neeed to.

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Possibly the fact that bars/pubs tended to be locally owned, with their owners and managers being known and respected figures in their communities, helped.

There's a strange quirk of British licensing laws which says that the "landlord" of a pub's word is absolutely final within those premises. If (s)he asks you to leave and you don't, you're committing a serious offense, and can be given jail time. You have no right to question their decision - you just have to go. I learned this on a visit to a pub in the town I grew up on a visit back there in my early 20s. The place had changed hands, and from all accounts the new landlord was not making a good job of it.

So my friend and I got our drinks, and the first thing I noticed were globules of gross and disgusting crud floating around in my beer. I returned to the bar, and asked the landlord politely for another one. His response: "DON'T YOU F***ING CAUSE TROUBLE ROUND 'ERE! GET OUT! NOW! OUT!". I was on the verge of giving as good as I'd got, when my friend - a law student - pointed out this law, and that our only option was to leave and then complain later.

So we did, and I wrote to the local council explaining what had happened and suggesting that they reassess this man's suitability to be a pub licensee. A week or so later I got a reply, explaining that their licensing department tried to put my complaint to him, but were told that he'd died suddenly the previous day. We later found out that he had been drinking himself to death for some time previously, and by the time I encountered him, had almost finished the job but not quite.

He was a rare example of a bad 'un. "Back in the day" when most pubs were either independently owned or brewery franchises, the landlords knew their customers and could handle the problematic ones most of the time, without things deteriorating to the point of fights and/or the law having to get involved. Because these landlords had absolute legal power within their pubs, they hardly ever had to use it. Sadly, during my last 10 years or so in the UK, the independents were disappearing and being replaced by branches of chain pubs which are designed purely and simply to get as many people as drunk as possible as quickly as possible, and often managed by 20-somethings who generally contributed to the problem rather than using experience and common sense to prevent it.
 

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 04-05-2015, 12:48 AM:
 
I agree that private owners have the advantage of being able to do things like that but corporations can not use "policy" to shirk responsibility to customers. Not only is it bad business in the long term but I believe it to be wrong.

Employees don't have to be best buddies with customers but they need to give basic respect. Otherwise, their job turns into "Buh-Bye."

https://screen.yahoo.com/julia-sweeney-snl-skits/pat-physical-evaluation-000000921.html

When a corporation has 100+ theaters to manage, there has to be standards and uniformity. Policy manuals are the only way to do that but policy not the way a business is run. It is secondary to running the business.

I have had direct conversations with corporate managers who have told me, in so many words, that as long as movies run on schedule, as long as customers are happy and receipts are turned in, they don't give a rat's ass about the policy manual. (Yes, the phrase "don't give a rat's ass" was used.)

Given that caveat, a theater manager is and should have the final word in how a theater is run and how customers are treated. I have no doubt that is how Frank runs his theater.

What I am saying is that the behavior Frank talks about is, in my view, a direct result of the public becoming used to the "Buh-bye" corporate mentality carrying over into his business. Of course, there will be a few bad apples but they should be ouliers. Unfortunately, the way most corporations run things, they seem to be fast becoming the norm.

There is no excuse for treating customers poorly. As more customers become accustomed to being treated poorly, this kind of thing will only get worse.
 

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Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 04-05-2015, 01:49 AM:
 
Randy, I agree with most of what you're saying, and my basic philosophy is the same as what you were told about manuals. I have worked for companies that were very much about "get the job done however you need to", and I have also worked for companies where everything had to be by the book. I have also worked for companies where employees - including managers - were given very little autonomy to deal with the whatever needed to be done. Guess which one I prefer.

The one thing I will say about customers is I think there are too many today who have taken the sentiment of "the customer is always right" and use it as a guiding principle. I'm not talking about the ones who want you to replace their soda if they get the wrong flavor, or top off their popcorn if they spill some. I'm talking about the ones who take it upon themselves to ruin everyone's day if they don't get exactly what they want.

Honestly, I think it probably is an extension of how we (as a society) are becoming to dependent on technology, and losing our interpersonal skills as a result. Plus people just seem to have become used to everything being available "on demand", so they have little patience.
 

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 04-05-2015, 03:26 AM:
 
I agree that technology depersonalizes people.
I also have to admit that I often act that way, too.

I've got personal reasons for acting that way... sometimes. I went through a difficult marriage and an even worse divorce from my wife because of some pretty hairy mental health issues. (Sorry if I sound like a bitter ex-husband but these issues were actually diagnosed.) Anyhow, the whole thing left me with some pretty hairy issues of my own. So I guess I have to give some slack to other people. If I have my problems then, I should give other people some elbow room for their problems too. Right?

Point, here, being that, as much as I try to live and let live, I still see that there are some people... too many people... who are selfish and don't consider the other person. Those are the people who piss me off the most.

Technology and the ability to have instant gratification do play a part in that but I STILL believe that this is no excuse for people in business to serve the public, be that retail, food service or entertainment, to treat customers like cattle.

Yes, when you are faced with an unruly customer, stand your ground. Don't take crap when you shouldn't have to. You don't have to be servile to people who don't return the basic respect due to service workers.

Another thought... This isn't just a "modern times" issue...
I don't think your average person knows how to properly "use" a service worker. A service worker isn't a lackey. A service worker is a professional whose job it is to consult with the customer on how to best meet their needs. The customer should ask the servant questions and solicit help from the server to answer them. They should not demand things.

I worked in high-end retail for a few years while I was in college. (F.A.O. Schwarz toy store.) I met a few really good customers who knew how to use my services and it was a really enjoyable experience. I also met a few a-holes who just wanted what they wanted and wanted it now and who thought that because they had money, they could demand it. Those people are the ones who got "Buh-Bye".

That was all in the days before the internet. So, I don't think that the phenomenon is new, by any means. I just think that technology makes it more prevalent... Unfortunately.
 

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Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 04-05-2015, 11:36 AM:
 

quote: Randy Stankey

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Technology and the ability to have instant gratification do play a part in that but I STILL believe that this is no excuse for people in business to serve the public, be that retail, food service or entertainment, to treat customers like cattle.

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