Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Theater companies STILL screwing their paying patrons

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Posted by Paul H. Rayton (Member # 1817) on 05-21-2015, 04:05 PM:

I might have thought that the practice of luring people to a movie theater with an advertised showtime of a given movie -- and then not showing it -- would be, by now, illegal, or at least really frowned upon. At least, they would not do it in a major market.

We've tried twice now to see "Ex Machina". First time, Sun. May 10, we went to the Pacific Americana in Glendale (CA). The entire place that day, including the parking garage, was pandemonium (Mother's Day crowds), and it was clear we were not going to be able to make it to the scheduled 3:05PM showtime until maybe 3:00PM, at which time all decent seats would be gone. So we gave up and left. OK, that one was our fault for not arriving earlier, and our fault.

One week later: Let's try again, at the same place. Sunday, May 17, we figured to have another go at it. Heard a lot about it, interested in seeing it. By now the show has been playing citywide for at least a month, and we shouldn't face a massive crowd for seating. We get to the parking lot at about 2:30PM, and arrive at the ticketing area at 2:35, for the advertised 3:05PM showing. We look at the display board, above the cashiers -- and there is no show listed for 3:05PM, only one at 5:35PM. We ask the cashier, "What happened to the 3:05PM screening? Is it sold out or something?" Reply: "No, we're not having that show today. Is there something else you'd like to see?"

Well, WTF, no, there is NOT something else I wanted to see, at least not at that moment.

As an former employee of commercial cinemas, I know PRECISELY what happened to "our" 3:05PM show. They yanked it, so they could sell more tickets to "Mad Max", or "Pitch Perfect", or maybe the "Avengers" show, all of which were in the same complex.

This ticks me off no end. We went to the expense and time commitment to make it to their location to see a **specific** movie, and which they specifically advertised in the papers with notes (in the ad) that declared "Times for Sunday May 17 ONLY" (their emphasis).

We went to the "Customer [No] Service" desk to inquire (though I knew what was happening). The girl on duty there said, "Oh, you should have checked on Fandango before coming in -- the updated times should have been listed there". Well, that's just HORSEPUCKY. I'm still involved with theaters, although now a nonprofit, and I know that all too often we get people coming in with complaints about the times listing on Fandango, too.

This was not an "error" in the listings, this was a deliberate yanking of a show by Pacific, and screw the public who might be coming to see it. And no, they did not offer us any return tickets for some other date or other compensation, either.

Back in the 1990s, I was working a commercial 6-plex here in L.A. When some title opened very strongly on a Friday, if the big, THX-equipped houses sold out during prime times over the weekend, it was a known event that the "backup" print would be hastily assembled and we'd run it in one of the smaller houses (non-THX, and much smaller screen.) This was just playing dirty, but who was I, as an employee, to tell them they couldn't do it? So the patrons unknowingly being sent to screen #2 or #5 for that showtime were being screwed, too -- getting less of a "presentation" than in the big screen, THX house.) And people who presented themselves to purchase tickets for the cancelled show were simply lied to, told something like "the projector broke down" or similar.

It just seems (to me) that now, what with DCPs, and online tracking of showtimes, etc., that big chains like Pacific shouldn't be able to pull off such bait-and-switcheroo tricks with the titles on their screens. How naive I am.

I'm about to also write Pacific to complain directly to them as well, but I wanted to vent here publicly first, since (to be honest) I doubt that Pacific will do anything to "apologize" for their disrespecting their customers that way. So if I can at least alert others to the continuation of these shabby practices, even just a little, I'll feel better. Next time I'll be thinking twice about taking my spendable $$ to Pacific's locations, for sure.

Is anybody else out there being required to perform such little "tricks" for their management these days?

(PS: I tried to upload an image here of the Pacific ad from last Sun., but it's not going through. Maybe later.)

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-21-2015, 05:47 PM:

I assume they had a meeting and said, what group is it better to piss off?

A. The group of 6 people who want to see Ex Machina

or

B. 200 or more people who otherwise wouldn't get tickets to Mad Max (or whatever).

As usual, follow the money.

I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that's probably what happened.

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 05-21-2015, 06:31 PM:

Paul, I don't think you are being unreasonable to be upset about this. I know I would be to. However, I do think you are being unreasonable to say (or imply) the theatre is deliberately doing this to piss people off.

Assuming you kept a print out of the times or the listing from the paper, I think you have justification to ask for a free pass from the theatre. But is it really worth getting this bent out of shape about. Especially if you work in the industry and understand why this kind of thing happens.

As for directing people to a lesser presentation, I don't see an issue with this. Unless they are specifically the movie in a specific format - and not differentiating times not in that format, I don't think it's an issue. The patrons going to the overflow auditorium should actually be thankful the theatre added the additional show times so they didn't waste a trip.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 05-21-2015, 07:01 PM:

Did they not offer you a free pass to come back and see the show at a later date?

I have never heard of this sort of thing happening without passes being offered to the patrons who wanted to see the cancelled show.

I do agree that advertising a showtime for a particular title and then not showing that title for reasons that are within the control of the theatre management is unethical, and that even free passes don't really compensate for people who have wasted their time and perhaps hired a babysitter. Still, passes cost (effectively) nothing and are the least that the theatre manager should have done in this situation.

Definitely write to the theatre company (and maybe the film distributor, too) to express your displeasure. If you are lucky, the complaint might make it to someone who can make a difference for the better. If not, they will probably send you some passes to see another movie at their crappy theatre. For the cost of a stamp, it is probably worth it.

For the record, I also happen to think that the airlines' common practice of overbooking (selling more than the available number of seats, on the basis that there will be some no-shows and offering free tickets in the event that too many people try to check in for the flight) is also unethical, but I seem to be alone on that one. Still, I have never heard a good explanation for why it is somehow acceptable to sell (say) 102 tickets for a flight on a 100-seat airplane.

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 05-21-2015, 07:25 PM:

Scott, with the overbooking thing, I think it comes down to a matter of statistics. I'm sure have employed bean counters that tell them X number of people wind up not showing for their flight. I don't think it's necessarily ethical unless those final ticket holders know they are on standby, but I don't think it's the worst thing in the world.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 05-21-2015, 07:30 PM:

Paul: Ex Machina is great. Do not give up. We found that local cinemas don't do this as much as chains. Some of them even still LOVE films.

Posted by Buck Wilson (Member # 5885) on 05-21-2015, 09:02 PM:

We constantly have people coming up angry claiming "You have the wrong showtimes online!!" only to find out that they got their information from msn or askjeeves or buttholesurfin. com or whathaveyou... We always direct them to our actual site and try to explain to them that we truly have no control of the entire internet.

You do not seem to be in that boat. If you actually have a newspaper ad with a time they didn't honor, you can very likely get double passes each with enough complaining. That is redick.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 05-21-2015, 10:51 PM:

This is reminiscent of the Valentine's Day bullshit I went through three months ago.

My girlfriend and I went up to Oklahoma City to have dinner, see a movie and do some other things. I had bought advance tickets for us to see Kingsmen: The Secret Service at the Harkins Bricktown 16 theater. I paid a modest surcharge to see the movie on the theater's largest "Cine Capri" screen, equipped with Dolby Atmos.

After dinner we arrived at the theater only to find our movie had been switched to a smaller non-Atmos house. They moved Fifty Shades of Grey into the Cine Capri despite having advertised and advance sold tickets otherwise. Needless to say, I was pissed about it, but I contained my temper so I could have a reasonable, productive conversation with the manager. Apparently the theater chain management made this switcheroo at the last minute.

I let them know we drove up from Lawton to see the movie at that theater. If we didn't care about the difference between 5.1, 7.1 or Atmos we would have watched the movie in Lawton, maybe on Blu-ray months later. 50 Shades of Grey had a plain 5.1 mix. It didn't need to be in the Cine Capri house for any other reason than extra seats.

The theater refunded our money for the tickets we bought and also gave us a pair of re-admit passes for a future visit. That made it better. I've continued to watch movies there (and buy concessions). Last visit: Mad Max: Fury Road in Atmos. Thankfully they didn't have Pitch Perfect in the Cine Capri unannounced, even though it strangely made a lot more money opening weekend than Mad Max.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 05-22-2015, 05:38 AM:

Overbooking and overselling, it's common in almost every industry nowadays... Most people hate hotels and airlines for doing it.

I've seen numerous examples where one show got cancelled the last minute to accommodate the overflow from a sellout show. Also, shows with reserved seating getting moved into a "lesser" auditorium, reassigning some random seat but not even giving a compensation for the reservation fee.

I've once attended a show where the feature could not be started, probably because of a defective DCP (great Q.C.). They even refused to refund the tickets, they only handed out a coupon for a free show, that didn't cover 3D or other fancy shows. When I asked where they expect me to finish my popcorn they just shrugged.

It reminds me of this hotel in N.Y. where I arrived late at night after an exhausting flight and several hours worth of explaining at the customs what I was doing with the equipment which I was bringing with me for work (which got all the necessary paperwork). I booked the hotel via phone a week before and explicitly told them I would be checking in late at night, which was no problem. We exchanged credit card information and she e-mailed me a confirmation. The "gentle" lady at the reception told me they didn't expect me anymore, so they gave my room to somebody else and they were now fully booked. Great! I literally had to ask her if she could arrange another room for me at another hotel... Which she, at first, even refused to do. I told her, what do you expect me to do? Sleep with my luggage on a park bench outside? After some convincing, she called ONE partner hotel, who also didn't have a room available... I ended up booking a new hotel on-line, on the spot right there and got me a taxi ride to the other hotel. To add injury to insult, after I got my credit card statements, I realized the hotel actually charged for my apparent no-show... Obviously a call to the credit card company got that sorted out, but sure bet I would never be staying at this hotel EVER again.

Had they admitted their mistake, booked me on a comparable room in another hotel and paid for the taxi ride there, they might have had a return customer.

Posted by David Buckley (Member # 2600) on 05-22-2015, 06:00 AM:

Buy your tickets in advance online. Makes canning a show more work.

Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 05-22-2015, 06:22 AM:

quote: Scott Norwood
For the record, I also happen to think that the airlines' common practice of overbooking (selling more than the available number of seats, on the basis that there will be some no-shows and offering free tickets in the event that too many people try to check in for the flight) is also unethical, but I seem to be alone on that one. Still, I have never heard a good explanation for why it is somehow acceptable to sell (say) 102 tickets for a flight on a 100-seat airplane.

I don't know how ethical it is but I understand why they do it. People like me, and probably most on this site, buy the lowest fare non-refundable tickets and will normally show up for the flight. If we don't, they still get the revenue because the ticket isn't refundable.

However, there are a decent number of travelers (more or less depending on route and time) that are business travelers on fully refundable tickets.

These travelers will make last minute changes to their flight plans and decide to take a different flight. If they sold only the number of seats on the plane, when one of these travelers cancels, that revenue is lost forever.

By overbooking, they maximize revenue. They account for the typical number of cancellations. They normally will get volunteers to take a later flight in return for a flight voucher.

I guess it's not that "unethical" if they get volunteers. In the event of involuntary bumps, the penalty is big for the airline. They have to compensate you in cash (or check) immediately for twice your ticket cost (up to a $650 maximum) if they can't get you to your destination within 1 hour of your scheduled arrival. If your arrival is over 2 hours late, they have to compensate you 4 times your ticket cost (up to $1300 maximum).

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 05-22-2015, 07:12 AM:

My issue with overbooking is that something that does not exist is being sold. The airline or hotel guarantees transportation or a room to more people than it can accommodate. Eventually, someone will be denied something that was guaranteed. If airlines had the ability to swap out a larger plane in the event of overbooking of a flight on a smaller plane, I would have no problem with it, but this, effectively, never happens.

I understand the revenue argument and I understand that, occasonally, a "voluntarily" bumped passenger with a flexible schedule will be happy to get a free ticket (I have occasonally been that passenger), but it still reeks of over-selling.

Are there any movie theatres anywhere that would actually consider selling more tickets than they have seats for a given showtime?

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 05-22-2015, 07:30 AM:

quote: Lyle Romer
I don't know how ethical it is but I understand why they do it. People like me, and probably most on this site, buy the lowest fare non-refundable tickets and will normally show up for the flight. If we don't, they still get the revenue because the ticket isn't refundable.

I guess you somewhat answered your question yourself. The problem I have with those practices is that the service to the customer is nothing more than a variable in a big equation.

If you end up holding the shortest stick during this game of musical chairs while trying to board that plane, hoping to get your connecting flight on time, you couldn't care less about their motivations. Also, that money they promise you, is in many cases just petty cash compared to the real damages such events can cause and they wouldn't even give it to you, if there wasn't some regulation in place.

For a while, I ended up booking flights primarily on low-fares airlines, while all of their services suck and you're often treated like cattle, their technique of selling all seats in that plane practically non-refundable via a system pretty much like a Dutch auction seemingly avoids overbooking. Maybe we should start selling cinema tickets the same way? [Smile]

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 05-22-2015, 07:49 AM:

quote: Lyle Romer
In the event of involuntary bumps, the penalty is big for the airline. They have to compensate you in cash (or check) immediately for twice your ticket cost (up to a $650 maximum) if they can't get you to your destination within 1 hour of your scheduled arrival. If your arrival is over 2 hours late, they have to compensate you 4 times your ticket cost (up to $1300 maximum).

According to who?

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 05-22-2015, 08:45 AM:

In fairness, I should add that not all airlines overbook their flights. Jet Blue does not and there may be others. Still, the practice reflects badly on the industry.

At one point in the mid-1980s there was significant competition between Pam Am and Eastern for the BOS<->LGA<->DCA air shuttle market. Most of these tickets were sold immediately before the flight (very few advance bookings were made). One of these companies did an interesting promotion where passengers were promised that, if they arrived on time for their flight, they would be guaranteed a seat, even if a second plane had to be brought out and flown with just one passenger. Apparently, this almost never actually happened, but it was an effective promotion at the time. (Obviously, this only worked because the flights were short and because there was a separate fleet of aircraft just for shuttle operations. Presumably, they had extra pilots and stewardesses available as well. It was not good enough to save either Pan Am or Eastern, though.)

Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 05-22-2015, 09:20 AM:

quote: Ken Lackner
According to who?

The US DOT. See http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/publications/flyrights.htm#overbooking

quote:
Involuntary bumping

DOT requires each airline to give all passengers who are bumped involuntarily a written statement describing their rights and explaining how the carrier decides who gets on an oversold flight and who doesn't. Those travelers who don't get to fly are frequently entitled to denied boarding compensation in the form of a check or cash. The amount depends on the price of their ticket and the length of the delay:

* If you are bumped involuntarily and the airline arranges substitute transportation that is scheduled to get you to your final destination (including later connections) within one hour of your original scheduled arrival time, there is no compensation.

* If the airline arranges substitute transportation that is scheduled to arrive at your destination between one and two hours after your original arrival time (between one and four hours on international flights), the airline must pay you an amount equal to 200% of your one-way fare to your final destination that day, with a $650 maximum.

* If the substitute transportation is scheduled to get you to your destination more than two hours later (four hours internationally), or if the airline does not make any substitute travel arrangements for you, the compensation doubles (400% of your one-way fare, $1300 maximum).

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 05-22-2015, 09:30 AM:

quote:
* If the airline arranges substitute transportation that is scheduled to arrive at your destination between one and two hours after your original arrival time (between one and four hours on international flights), the airline must pay you an amount equal to 200% of your one-way fare to your final destination that day, with a $650 maximum.

Is the $650 the maximum compensation or ticket price? One way tickets are often more than round trip. Is compensation based on your ticket price, the lowest price the airline charged, or the price of a ticket that day? One way from your initial departure or from wherever they stranded you? Good things to know when trying to enforce your rights. Because we all need more headaches when traveling. [Confused]

Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 05-22-2015, 10:08 AM:

Martin the $650 is the maximum compensation. If you paid more than $325 for the one way ticket, you will not get the full 2x compensation.

It isn't perfectly clear but I'm pretty sure the compensation is based on what you paid for your one way trip from origin to destination. Even when you buy round trip, the actual fare is broken down into an amount for each direction.

If you book LAX-DFW-JFK and get involuntarily bumped in DFW, I'm 90% sure that the compensation is based on what you paid for LAX-JFK. They don't break down the fare for the legs of connecting flights.

I'm guessing involuntary bumps are pretty rare. I've heard them offer some pretty high voucher values for volunteers. One flight I was on got up to an $800 voucher and then they got volunteers.

Posted by Rick Raskin (Member # 1561) on 05-22-2015, 10:50 AM:

My brother was a a flight last week where they offered $1000 in travel vouchers for volunteer bumps. He said there was practically a stampede trying to get to the ticket counter.

I once was flying from LAX to IAD via ORD. Noticing an earlier direct to IAD, they wanted to charge me $75 to change. So I went to the gate anticipating flying via ORD. When that flight was overbooked they called me up to the counter and offered me an upgrade to business class if I would take the very same flight they were earlier going to charge me $75 for.

Back to the theater side...I was working a job where the management abruptly changed the schedule to insert an extra show. That significantly shifted the start time well ahead of what was advertised in the newspaper. Needless to say there were hundreds of very pissed off customers.

If they would have had a brain they could of probably added an early show and delayed the start of subsequent ones maybe 30 minutes. I think most customers would have been okay with that. But who said they had any brains. They eventually went under.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 05-22-2015, 05:51 PM:

What? That crappy theater didn't have time machines installed?

Posted by Steve Matz (Member # 1890) on 06-01-2015, 09:43 PM:

What Carmike Theaters do here really pisses me off. They advertise that on Saturday and Sunday between 4pm and 5:30pm you can watch a feature for $5.75 per person(excluding 3D) So I ask for 2 Tickets to a non-hit Film and he charges me $7.75 per ticket. I said whats the deal it's supposed to be $5.75 per person in that time Frame. He says Oh that Feature is being shown
in the Big D Theater(this is a 14 theater multiplex) and there is a 2 dollar sur charge for the Bigger Screen and supposedly better sound. I promptly said, you mean a Screen that is actually close to the size of a Single Screen Theater in the Old Days.He didn't know what to say and I further said you should be paying me 2 dollars to have to sit through 1/2 hr of Commercials and almost again that long of prevues. This is the same theater that charges $13.55 for a medium popcorn and coke. If this is how they are Nationwide These Guys should be Billionaires. Finally had enough of this outfit,they have 2 Multiplexes here and I'm done going to either one...POS outfit [fu]

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 06-01-2015, 10:13 PM:

I'm no Carmike fan, but in this case I don't see the problem. Obviously they had 13 other screens you could have picked from, one of which was probably showing that same movie. Remember they are paying around 60% film rent and all the costs associated with that huge building to run that "non hit" film. And, I'm sure the prices are clearly posted at the boxoffice window.

Right now I'm sitting here with 8 people in the crowd, 3 of which are senior citizens who didn't buy any concessions. No profits being made here tonight. The next 3 nights will probably be the same. But this weekend when we are crowded, some people are sure to say "Look at all the money they're raking in."

Posted by Steve Matz (Member # 1890) on 06-02-2015, 12:39 AM:

Yeah; the price was posted as $5.75 between 4pm and 5:30pm. Didn't say anything about Big D or Sur Charges. They like to spring that on you when you ask for the Tickets. Not my Problem they pay 60% for a Film Rental; You honor what your advertising says as you enter the theater...

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-02-2015, 06:11 AM:

Presuming what Steve is claiming is accurate...that is, the only exclusion to the $5.75 price is 3D, then he is correct, they are false advertising. Now, if they also have an exclusion in their advertising on the PLS (Premium Large Screen because it isn't a larger "format."), then that is Carmike's mistake. It is a bait and switch and probably illegal.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 06-02-2015, 03:37 PM:

I have a hard time believing there is no signage anywhere on the boxoffice about a surcharge for the Big D screen. If they have everything else priced why wouldn't they have that? Unless there was a sign and it got torn down or covered up or something. But with them being a big company you can bet they've got standards for stuff like that. If there really is no sign then it's probably the local college-student manager's fault.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 06-02-2015, 03:38 PM:

"If you have to ask how much, you shouldn't be here."

Posted by Mike Spaeth (Member # 524) on 06-02-2015, 04:25 PM:

I highly doubt that the Carmike 14 in Billings (which is not in a competitive zone) had anything but a hit movie in the Big D house. It's not like they were playing Woman In Gold there. In May, they likely played Avengers, Avengers, Mad Max, Tomorrowland, San Andreas in the Big D. It's pretty much common knowledge that their is an upcharge for PLF and it's probably noted on their pricing signage.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 06-02-2015, 07:23 PM:

quote: Paul H. Rayton
As an former employee of commercial cinemas, I know PRECISELY what happened to "our" 3:05PM show. They yanked it, so they could sell more tickets to "Mad Max", or "Pitch Perfect", or maybe the "Avengers" show, all of which were in the same complex.

With a lot of circuits using FANDANGO where their information comes from a third party network that is tied to the location's box office POS system that supplies the information to the HDTV monitors in the box office area.

When the POS unit shows a sellout of that particular time, that third party network system automatically takes out that showtime out of the HDTV when it reaches the sellout plateau number so no more tix can be offered to the public even though the POS terminal itself will still show seats that are available, but usually front row only.

Posted by Paul H. Rayton (Member # 1817) on 06-02-2015, 08:48 PM:

In the instance to which I was referring when I started this thread, it was not an issue of the theater being "sold out." The cashier quite freely volunteered to me, "We are not having that show today. Would you like to see something else?"

The only "problem" that day was that the theater (repeating the blame here: Pacific's Americana, in Glendale, CA) arbitrarily dropped the show in favor of something else which **might** sell a few more tickets. And then they made zero effort to apologize to me (us), such as by offering return ticket(s) for another date and time. I hope to never darken their doorway again, if that's how they're going to run their operations.

BTW, the commercial cinema company I worked for, previously in my career? The ones who were notorious (with me, anyway) for yanking smaller movies on weekend evenings, and doing a switcheroo with the backup print of some new show -- which **might** sell a few more tickets? It was GCC (General Cinema Co., for those not familiar with the term) And guess what .. they bankrupted out of business!

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 06-05-2015, 01:10 PM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
But with them being a big company you can bet they've got standards for stuff like that. If there really is no sign then it's probably the local college-student manager's fault.

I don't care much for this buck passing. The basic problem more and more is there is not one real adult in the building. It's easy to blame some wet behind the ears manager, but he represents the circuit and ultimately they are to blame for an unprofessional operation.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 06-05-2015, 01:50 PM:

quote: Sam D. Chavez
It's easy to blame some wet behind the ears manager, but he represents the circuit and ultimately they are to blame for an unprofessional operation.

That's true, but "the company" can't watch every employee all the time. And people do make mistakes.

Not defending Carmike here, I just think it's pretty unlikely that there was no sign about the Big D surcharge or that they are "springing it" on people.

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 06-05-2015, 04:34 PM:

I would be curious to see a picture of the theatre's box office signage. The Carmike web site doesn't have any information about this 4:00-5:30 matinee pricing, although if you go through Fandango there is a $5.75 price available for some shows.

I'm inclined to think this is a case of a customer not properly reading the signs.

Posted by Steve Matz (Member # 1890) on 06-10-2015, 12:31 PM:

Well I've been going to Movies for quite a few years now and I do know how to read and observe signs and advertising. The Front ticket booth doesn't show anything along side whats playing except the movie rating or if the feature is in 3D and I know that will cost you another 3 dollars for the glasses. Nothing about BIG D,OMNI VISION,or any other Screen/Sound Format BS. Here is what you see at Both Carmike Multiplex theaters here when entering the Doors...

Ticket Pricing:

Adult (Fri-Sat):
$10.75

Adult (Sun-Thurs):
$10.50

Additional 3D Surcharge:
$3.00

Matinee Mon-Thur:
$7.00

Super Bargain (4-5:30pm):
$5.75

Child (Fri-Sat Ages 3-11):
$8.00

Child (Sun-Thurs Ages 3-11):
$7.75

Matinee (Fri-Sat):
$7.50

Senior 60 (Friday-Saturday):
$8.00

Senior 60 (Sunday-Thursday):
$7.75

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 06-10-2015, 07:54 PM:

All that trouble over 25 Cents.

Posted by Steve Matz (Member # 1890) on 06-11-2015, 01:55 AM:

No Sam. they wanted $7.75 instead of the advertised $5.75....Not the Money, it's the principle. If you advertise something at a price just stick to what you advertised....Besides they should be
giving the $ 2.00 sur charge back to their Patrons for having to watch 1/2 hr of Commercials before the feature starts. When they give the times of the Features, that's not when they really start. add another 30 to 45 minutes to that... POS outfit !

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 06-11-2015, 08:42 PM:

Steve,

What I meant was they could have shortened that silly list of different prices between Mon/Thur, to Fri/Sun and avoided a lot of confusion over a quarter. I was not even focussing on your issue but sorry.

My issue used to be being identified as a senior citizen when I was like 52.

Posted by Steve Matz (Member # 1890) on 06-11-2015, 08:56 PM:

quote: Sam D. Chavez
My issue used to be being identified as a senior citizen when I was like 52.

Good One Sam, Every few years Senior Citizens have to gain age to benefit from any discount benefits. Everyone was giving discounts when you were 55 yrs old. Our City bus transportation, Theaters,Barbers, Fast Food, etc. Then for some reason someone decided that 55 was too young so now most of those I named have raised the age to 62yrs. The Rescue Mission however still honors 55 yr olds. I believe if the Government could get away with it; they would raise retirement age to 75 yrs and then hope you had a heart attack on the way down to the SS Office to sign up ... [beer]

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 06-12-2015, 12:14 AM:

quote: Steve Matz
Besides they should be giving the $ 2.00 sur charge back to their Patrons for having to watch 1/2 hr of Commercials before the feature starts

If they cut out the commercials they would then probably have to raise the prices. You can pay with money or you can pay with time.

Posted by Mike Spaeth (Member # 524) on 06-12-2015, 01:00 AM:

Geez, the exaggeration is rampant in this thread. I would bet you the BILLIONS OF DOLLARS the crooks at Carmike are pocketing from false advertising to customers about Big-D surcharges for non-hit movies that you have never, ever been in a feature that had 45 minutes of pre-show content AFTER the advertised start time of the movie before the actual feature started.

Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 06-12-2015, 01:26 AM:

I seem to recall that about 8 or 9 years ago someone annoyed at having to sit
through a bunch of ads filed a lawsuit against United Artists theaters claiming
that their published showtimes were, in effect, 'false advertising'.

As I remember it, he suit was thrown out of court. I don't recall the exact reason,
but I seem to recollect a quote from some judge that UA (and other theaters)
published SHOWtimes. Not "feature start times", and since the ads were,
technically, part of the "show" - - there was no false advertising involved.

Posted by Andrew Armstrong (Member # 8494) on 06-12-2015, 01:38 AM:

I will throw my reel in. Ex Machina was released January 21, 2015 in the UK, April 10 for the USA. I'm in the Houston, Tx market and it is still showing as of today, June 12th, but only one show time per day, the 4:30pm slot at 3 or 4 different cinemas, out of a few dozen or so. Most of the European movies i have ever seen only make it a month before falling to 3 or 4 show times a day. And i never talked to anyone who said they were making enough money off of it to keep it playing, so i'm waiting for it in the afterlife.

Posted by Steve Matz (Member # 1890) on 06-12-2015, 08:53 AM:

Advertising is one of the reasons you go to the Cinema to get away from the Crap your deluged with on TV. Once upon a time AMC was like TCM Channel; no commercials and it was enjoyable to watch. Now it's like watching NASCAR; Commercial every 2 or 3 laps. I'm almost willing to bet when Ted Turner passes on unless it's in his will that TCM will turn into the same thing AMC has
sunk to. The Old days of Movie going had cartoons,newsreel,serials,2 reelers and usually 2 features plus a Screen that was equal or larger than the so called BIG D BS. We didn't have to pay any sur charge or watch a 1/2 hr of commercials. If I'm paying $10.50 to only watch one feature I don't need to see the same Crap that I was trying to avoid from Television. [thumbsdown]

Posted by Buck Wilson (Member # 5885) on 06-14-2015, 08:35 AM:

I agree. It has always been "free content with commercials or pay for it to avoid commercials"

With theaters, you get the worst of both sides. YAY!

Posted by Muhamad Taufiq (Member # 8868) on 06-14-2015, 09:19 AM:

Just saw this from reddit

Posted by Mike Frese (Member # 4361) on 06-14-2015, 03:25 PM:

So what chains are running commercials AFTER the scheduled start time? I go to a Regal Theater the most right now. A 14 screen former Hollywood in Columbia, MO. I have never seen commercials being played after the scheduled start time. Previews can run a tad long. I counted about 18 minutes one time but they are usually 10 minutes-ish.

The prices for movies are not easy to find on their website. You need to know. But it is not really that hard to find out. My in-laws almost paid $12 a ticket to see an early afternoon showing taking my kids to Jurassic World (it was for there big screen). Thankfully I doubled check for them and saved them $15.

They seldom play a big release during the first week of release during the cheap bargain twilight time in non-big screen, non-3d. Thankfully I like to avoid the first week of release.

The other theater I attend but no where near as much is a B&B in Fulton, MO. No commercial here after the scheduled start time either.

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 06-14-2015, 06:50 PM:

I've started timing the previews. The last one I went to, at Carmike, had 21 mins of previews.
The record so far (and I don't go to pop movies often) is 27mins at AMC last year.

They both, do, however, start the previews at showtime.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 06-14-2015, 09:37 PM:

quote: Steve Matz
The Old days of Movie going had cartoons,newsreel,serials,2 reelers and usually 2 features plus a Screen that was equal or larger than the so called BIG D BS.

I doubt they had 80 or 90 foot screens in those days. How big is the big-D?

They also didn't have surround sound, subwoofers, or cushy seats like today. You didn't have 10 or 12 movies to choose from. And a lot of theaters had scratched prints, and if you lived in any non-major city (like Billings) you had to wait weeks for a movie to play in your town. In our case, sometimes up to a year or more and then you were guaranteed to get a scratched up print.

I think if we all were suddenly transported back to the "good old days" we would all immediately start begging to come back to 2015 with all its modern conveniences and improvements. I know I would.

Posted by Buck Wilson (Member # 5885) on 06-14-2015, 10:12 PM:

This happened to a friend of mine, she posted this pic on Facebook.

Liemax 3D AMC Barrywoods 24 KCMO

Posted by Steve Matz (Member # 1890) on 06-15-2015, 11:48 AM:

I don't know when you started going to Movies Mike but trying to say Carmike's seats and Big D Screen were better/bigger than the old days is BS. The original FOX Theater in Billings was built like a lot of the old Fox Palaces built in the 30's/40's. The seats were thick with red crushed Velvet, Fancy Carpeting/ Drapes all over the place.The Prints weren't all scratched up and concessions were reasonable for the day. Granted the sound was Altec Lansing 800 VOTT's back then but the theater still had great acoustics. Surround sound to me is too annoying on some films. When I first saw "Twister" in SS, I was constantly distracted from looking at the Screen because I'm hearing all these sounds like birds tweeting to the left and right of your seat and it just diverted my attention too much. Trying to even remotely compare these Multiplex Theaters to one of the neat Fancy built old Single theaters is like comparing a Rolls Royce to a YUGO. I doubt if people today could go back and have a real Movie expierence would want to come back to the BS of today [beer]

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 06-15-2015, 12:05 PM:

Just to be a little pedantic, The Palace Era was the late 20's to early 30's.
Granted, single screen theatres were built big by today's standards, especially towards the end of the 30's and prior to WWII, but they weren't palaces.
I personally prefer the post-Palace theatres, but YMMV.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 06-15-2015, 03:05 PM:

The palace era of movie theaters is indeed long gone.

The real palaces were built before TV. This was also a time when most movies were black and white, 1.33:1 in ratio and mixed in mono. Radio and live stage entertainment were the only competition movies had back then. That made it feasible to build single screen theaters that are big by today's standards even in small cities and towns. Some of these theaters were really ornate in their construction and decor.

The home video industry killed off the modern post-palace era movie palace -theaters like the GCC Northpark 1-2 in Dallas. The movie industry became permanently afflicted with ADHD, fueled by demands from investors and accountants to make any movie release blow its wad in theaters ASAP and get on home video as fast as possible. More screens per site helps a movie play itself out faster. This practice has been raised to a global level, helping a mediocre sequel like Jurassic World earn over $200 million domestic and $500 million globally in the first weekend. It will be interesting to see the earnings percentage drop next weekend.

Maybe the ultimate goal is to get movie releases to play themselves out in as little time as a pay per view TV broadcast. With such temporary staying power it might actually be possible for theaters to reduce the number of screens in a new complex. A handful of screens would each play a new movie for just a couple or so days and move on to the next batch. The downside is the same movies would probably be available as HD digital downloads in a matter of days and on Netflix in a couple or so weeks. Customers, just like the bean counters, are also badly afflicted with ADHD. The more fast and convenient you make it for them to see the movie the more easy you also make it for them to just skip the movie. "Nah, I'll just see it on Netflix next week."

I think movie theaters are going to have to start diversifying a bit, showing movies from other sources and other types of content. The studios in Hollywood are leading them on a path to destruction.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 06-16-2015, 09:11 AM:

Depends a lot on local circumstances. . . . .

In 1971 I serviced 8 local screens that were 70mm-6 track with large A4 Voice of the Theatre. No screen was under 50 ft wide; largest was 80, which was a D-150. 4 were atmospherics, rest modern. Smallest 970 seats, largest about 3800.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 06-16-2015, 09:24 PM:

quote: Steve Matz
I don't know when you started going to Movies Mike but trying to say Carmike's seats and Big D Screen were better/bigger than the old days is BS. The original FOX Theater in Billings was built like a lot of the old Fox Palaces built in the 30's/40's.

I never said the old theaters weren't more nicely decorated than they are today, although that's mainly a matter of taste. I can tell you for certain though that modern seating is a lot more comfortable than 1930s-era seating, crushed velvet or no crushed velvet. Bigger, wider, deeper. The Fox Theatre in Billings, now known as the Alberta Bair Theater, still has its original seats -- they're tiny and cramped compared to modern seating. They don't recline, they don't have liftable armrests, and legroom is not the best. I was in the Fox Theatre many times during its movie days -- I saw Jaws and Close Encounters there, among others -- I don't know how big the screen was but I doubt it was more than 50 feet wide.

You also have to remember that not all theaters of old were "palaces." There were plenty of dumps then, just like there are now. Billings had the World Theater... that place was no palace.

I know how you feel -- I miss some things from my own personal "old days" too, but to say that all modern movie houses are THAT BAD compared to the old days, is just not true.

Posted by Steve Matz (Member # 1890) on 06-17-2015, 01:20 AM:

The WORLD Theater which was formerly the DOLLY and before that the LYRIC was the Biggest Joke for a Theater there was. The Projection Booth was part of the Lobby and had 3 steps up to the Door. No Balcony, etc. even as a kid comparing it to the FOX or Babcock was a no Brainer. The Stage in front of the Screen was so Low that little kids would go up on it and go up to the Screen and smear what was probably melted Milk Duds trying to touch the Actors before the Ushers would come running down the aisles to chase them off. That was one theater that when it went Tits up was no Big Loss for Movie Goers...

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 06-18-2015, 09:54 AM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
You also have to remember that not all theaters of old were "palaces." There were plenty of dumps then, just like there are now.

Hence the British expression "fleapit", which emerged in the 1920s, to describe the smaller houses with cheaper (and ofen bug-infested, as the name implies) seats.

Posted by Martin Brooks (Member # 1269) on 06-22-2015, 03:30 PM:

Well it certainly depends upon which era you're talking about. And while there were always "flea pits", there were also truly great theatres. There were 139 theatres in the U.S. with more than 2800 seats (with a median seat count of 3218), 29 of those in NYC alone.

When I was a kid in the 1960s living in NYC, I was lucky enough to live a bus ride away from one of the Loews "Wonder Theatres" - the Loews Paradise (over 3800 seats), which had sculptures throughout, lush carpeting, a star ceiling and moving clouds, but it did not have mag or stereo sound. I always lived near two ordinary theatres, one part of the RKO chain, but it had over 1000 seats and another independent theatre, which was considered very small in its day, but still probably had 700 seats.

But I also travelled into Manhattan to the roadshow theatres like the Rivoli ("West Side Story"), Criterion ("Lawrence of Arabia"), Loews Capitol/Cinerama ("How the West Was Won"), Warner Cinerama ("It's A Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World") and others.

By the time of the Dolby 70mm era, many of these theatres had become run down, but most (of the ones that were still around) still had great projection and sound. And it's a totally different experience seeing a film, especially a popcorn movie, with a thousand or more other people. And there were a few newer quality single-screen cinemas, like the Loews Astor Plaza and the Ziegfeld. Only the Ziegfeld is still with us.

So yes, in spite of things like Dolby Atmos and digital's advantages of steady picture and no dirt/scratches, I'd say that many of the presentations in the 60s-80s were better than today if you went to the best theatres to seek out the best presentations early in the run.

quote: Steve Matz
I believe if the Government could get away with it; they would raise retirement age to 75 yrs and then hope you had a heart attack on the way down to the SS Office to sign up ...

This is exactly what was intended when SS was first implemented in the 1930s. Average life expectancy was way below 65, especially for people who had worked their whole lives. It was thought that very few people would actually collect social security. Even in 1960, it was only 66.6 for men and 73.1 for women. It's almost 80 now.