Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Justifying a curtain purchase

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 06-16-2015, 02:13 AM:

Long-time readers will know that my theater (a single-screen in eastern Montana) has no stage curtain. It used to have one, but we took it down in about 1984 because it was old and dirty and had stopped working reliably, and besides, the ancient traveler mechanism wouldn't interface with modern automation.

Ever since then I've used colored lights that shine across the screen at angles, so the audience is never looking at a blank screen.

Over the years I've expressed on here many times how much I would love to restore a curtain to the theater, and now I have saved up the cash to do it and have gotten a quote which I think is reasonable.

My wife, Lynn, has never questioned most of the major decisions I've made for the theater, but (even though she hasn't said it) I know she thinks the curtain is going to be too costly to make sense. And, it IS very costly. But this is something I've wanted to do ever since we took the old curtain down in 1984.

So I need to convince her that this is a good idea, and this is where my fellow Film-Techers come in. I'm hoping some of you can help me come up with ways to express to her the importance of a stage curtain in a classic movie theater.

I've told her all the expected arguments (it will protect the screen, it will make the presentation classier, the audience will appreciate the added showmanship it will bring, etc.), but I have a slight feeling she thinks I'm a bit crazy for wanting to spend this kind of money on something that doesn't really add anything to the presentation of the movie itself and most likely, won't add to the appraised value of the theater either.

In other words, I know she thinks it's an awful lot of money to spend just to make our presentation look like it's really supposed to look.

If she was dead set against it I would back down; but she knows it's something I've really wanted to do for a long time and therefore she'll go along with it. Bottom line, I just don't want her to think that it's a waste of money. Your comments, please?

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 06-16-2015, 02:36 AM:

If you want it and you have the money to pay for it, then by all means get it. Not everything can be measured by dollars and cents and is this thing going to bring in more customers.

I've done various things to decorate my theatre (mostly the lobby) over the years just because I want to do it; I know that this sort of thing won't bring in an extra dime of revenue but it's my theatre and I want it to look nice. And it's gratifying when people who have never been here before say, "What a great looking little theatre you have here."

I spend a lot of time in my theatre so what's the difference between putting cash into decorating that or decorating my living room. Either way I get to look at my surroundings and say, "I like that." So it's worth the price paid.

Posted by Alan Plester (Member # 852) on 06-16-2015, 03:36 AM:

Go for it Mike, so nice to read someone actually wants tabs put in, they are in my mind shear class, its like everything else, it will hurt for a while but you will get over it, go for it mate.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 06-16-2015, 05:26 AM:

How much money do clean restrooms earn you?

Yes, it may be a difficult decision, but if it adds class to your cinema, do it.

You could easily spend the same amount of money or more on things that are not even visible to the audience.
I am sure the curtain will be valued by your patrons and it will add to their cinema experience.

- Carsten

Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 06-16-2015, 06:14 AM:

I would look at it this way. You are competing with home/cell phone viewing of movies. Anything you do that makes going to your theatre more of a special experience will help your attendance in the long run. Even if it doesn't increase grosses, it could prevent them from dropping in the future.

A couple of GCC theatres down here in the 90's had 1 or 2 screens with curtains. They tended to only use them on Friday or Saturday nights. It was truly more exciting when they would dim the lights and start the opening policy trailer on the curtain and have the curtain open up to expose the screen.

Posted by Buck Wilson (Member # 5885) on 06-16-2015, 06:21 AM:

I can't tell you how excited I am for you. I can't wait for the pictures!!

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-16-2015, 06:32 AM:

One could come up with similar analogies for most everything else. You could replace your kitchen table with a folding table or even an old wire spool (e.g. the college solution) and it will still function as a place to hold the food while you eat it.

When you have company over (particularly company you want to come back) do you tend to pick things up and make the place more tidy and impressive looking that how you normally live?

A curtain is sort of like that. They do bring in extra revenue but probably not enough to easily track their amount. There are people (and I''m one of them) that seek out curtained theatres over naked ones. What you are selling is an entertainment experience and it all adds into that, including the curtain. How much each piece affects the show is difficult to measure on a spreadsheet. A thing like a curtain will affect different people in different ways (even in your own household, it would seem). Young people that never grew up with such things will not "get" the difference (as a collection of that age group) yet older people will be more impressed for the refinement in your presentation. Remember when televisions came in cabinets are were furniture? Now they are like pictures one hangs on a wall. A youngster wouldn't get the cabinet thing.

There are the facts about a curtain reducing screen aging...they really do slow it down quite a bit. Over half of the theatre's life, a show isn't running so leaving the screen naked is exposing it to HVAC unnecessarily.

But on the other side...don't kid yourself, the cost of a curtain doesn't stop at its installation. Don't cheap out on ANYTHING relating to the curtain...not the machine, track, carriers, installation or the fabric itself. It ages and does need to be kept up. If the carriers start to bind up and that machine has to work harder, the cord is going to stretch, putting slack in the system...and it just goes downhill from there. You need to periodically check in on it and make sure it is tension right. Have the curtain cut short in height and, if possible, think light weight fabrics. Over time, it will stretch under its own weight and once it touches the stage/floor or whatever is under it, your system is a gonner...you then have the weight of the curtain PLUS the cumulative friction of the drape dragging the floor, which if it is carpeting is just going to kill the system fast. For grand drapes, I'm VERY partial to drum based machines (with a large drum), not chains...which I prefer for masking. Before you sign on the line...if possible, go see a system your perspective installer put in and check out their work and see how pleased that owner is and what the service life has been after a few years of use. You've saved up a long time for this, get it done right.

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 06-16-2015, 07:55 AM:

What everyone else said. We're a single screen non-profit, so we use other people's money. We made sure we budgeted for new curtains and moveable masking when we did our Kickstarter for digital. Curtains are like bacon. Not necessary but sure make things better;>

Posted by Frank Bolkovac (Member # 6201) on 06-16-2015, 08:55 AM:

Plain and simple....It's SHOWMANSHIP. Something the big chains forgot a long time.

Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 06-16-2015, 09:45 AM:

Marcus Loew once said, "I don't sell tickets to movies, I sell ticket to movie theatres" as his justification to his stock holders as to why he was building lavish theatres. His point was that he was not selling anything unique, people could see movies elsewhere. He was giving them a reason to come to his theatres. This is still true today, even more so with the many competing media choices for watching motion pictures.

As others have pointed out, you may not be able to qualify why a curtain makes sense, but just accept that it does.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 06-16-2015, 02:29 PM:

What the all these guys said. To that I will only add, curtains in a cinema are like table cloths and candles in a restaurant...they add some style and class and distinguishes them from fast food joints. And people feel and appreciate that difference; you know it has to add to the overall experience of the establishment or restaurateurs wouldn't spend the money or the effort to do it.

Curtains on your screen will distinguish you from the character-less, cookie-cutter, assembly-line rooms of the thousands of soul-less multiplex screens which have about as much class as a toilet seat.

And here's the thing: installing a curtain assembly on your screen does not have to be the super-expensive deal you many think it is. Sure, if you go the, contracted theatrical house route, it can cost a fortune, but I can tell you, there are ways around that and I know this 1st hand because in two non-profits where I was making the decisions and would be dammed if I had to live with naked screens staring back at my audiences day in and day out. I was determined to get me screen curtains, and I did. I was able to install curtains for much less than the first numbers that we got from theatrical supply houses. MUCH less with just a little finessing.

How? First, by not doing almost all the work myself. Me and JoAnne went out and hunted through a dozen bulk material stores on Canal Street in Manhattan and found just the material we wanted -- a light-weight cream nylon/satin. Don't go with the standard heavy velour curtain material that is usually used. In once install, I got a local seamstress pleat and sew it -- she was happy to get the work; in the second, I had our wardrobe department sew the material -- they gave it as a project to their theatre students. In both cases, I got a beautiful, finished curtain for a fraction of the cost of custom-made curtains at a theatrical house like Rosebrand. Trick is to use LIGHTWEIGHT material. And anyone who tells you you need heavy velour because it will last doesn't know what they are talking about -- screen curtains are rarely ever handled by humans -- they just open and close. Ours went in in 1983 and only needed sewing repair once when a truss tore a small hole. Other than that, it still looks stunning -- folds shimmer as it moves and it catches the side lighting when it's still.

You use lightweight nylon material (be sure it is opaque enough not to reveal the black screen masking behind it); light material will allow you to use a lightweight track and that's the key to a less expensive install. I used ADC's Specifine 113 lightweight aluminum track in both theatres -- clicky here: ADC Specifine Curtain Track The track is attached to the screen frame with L brackets. In both cases the track was over 40 width and it holds the curtain material just as good as a track 4 times the weight (and 5 times the cost). The only trick is to use more support brackets on the far ends where the material gathers and where the weight gets concentrated when the curtain is fully opened. The use of the light-weight material also significantly helps as it takes a lot less room for it to gather when opened so you don't need a lot of space beyond the screen for the material to live when fully opened.

The next trick is simply not to buy a curtain motor new -- ADC motors are incredibly expensive for nothing but a motor and some control relays and a gear box. You just need to hunt around for used curtain motors that you can pick up for a fraction of what you would have to spend new. With the thousands of single screens closed over the years -- and you KNOW every one of them had curtain motors back then -- there are plenty used motors hanging around just waiting to pull a curtain across a movie screen again as the feature begins.

Bottom line is, we were able to get beautiful results without breaking the bank. All it takes is some ingenuity, a little creativity and thinking outside the lines, but, Mike, knowing you, you have these in abundance. Not to mention a sense of real showmanship -- it takes someone with a unique passion to have been able to make a single screen work successfully for all these years as you have, willing to create a unique movie-going experience for his audiences. Put in a curtain, and I tell you, you will be rewarded a hundredfold by the very positive reaction you will get from your patrons.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 06-16-2015, 03:10 PM:

Frank--did you get any complaints from the fire marshall about a curtain made from nonstandard material? My (limited) experience suggests that he would want to see a specific type of label that is attached to all theatrical drapery (and which would indicate its flammability, or lack thereof), and would become upset if he could not find it. Maybe things are different in NYC, though, or you have some other documentation on its flammability.

Mike--I think that it is great that you are considering doing this. Please post pictures if you do. You have a gorgeous theatre and it would be great to add the finishing touch to the auditorium.

Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 06-16-2015, 03:42 PM:

quote: Frank Angel
there are plenty used motors hanging around just waiting to pull a curtain across a movie screen again

I sincerely wish Mike the best of luck with his quest, but a couple of years ago
when I tried to find a 'used' curtain motor from a closed theater or one that wasn't
using it anymore I found most had simply been junked or had mechanisms whose
gears or bearings were frozen with rust or corrosion from non-use.

Just as we were about to give up, it was only through stroke of total luck we
were given access to a theater that was about to be demolished to pull the
curtain motor out. - - - and then we ran into problems with it passing electrical
inspection when it was installed at it's 'new' location.

I was recently involved in a discussion with some people who are building what
will be one of the most technologically advanced screening rooms in the country
when it is completed some time later this year. I guarantee you, more money is
being poured into this single auditorium than it would cost to build an entire
multi-screen 'entertainment complex' in most parts of the US.

When they were finished rattling off their mind boggle-ing list of equipment
and specs, I casually asked if they were going to install a curtain.

"NO!" was their reply.

I sheepishly smiled and said "that's nice". [Roll Eyes]

> I know 'who butters my bread'- - and I'd rather have a job than a curtain <

Besides, they probably paid some designer hundreds of thousands, of not a
million or more to tell them that a curtain wasn't necessary - - so why should
they listen to me?

You have to pick you battles.......

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 06-16-2015, 04:03 PM:

Scott, yes indeed there are regs that require materials to be flame retardant. Thing is, you can also "treat" material that doesn't have the required "pretreaded" label with a flame retardant chemical spray. We bought the spray and the fact that we had bought the chemical and had the label and the receipt attached to the corner of the curtain seemed to be all that was required to satisfy an inspection....here in NYC, at least. Thing is, we are a city-owned institution -- we've never even seen an inspector. We did spray the material from the back very lightly as per instructions on the chemical; how much that actually retards combustion I have no idea.

In terms of inspections, no doubt everything depends on the individual locale and the tenacity of the inspectors. In my case, I probably could have gotten away with doing nothing given the lax attention we get from inspectors, in other situations, I have heard inspectors come in and actually demand a swatch of the curtain material and set it ablaze.

I think I am supposed to redo that application every 5 years. I would guess we probably are a bit past due. I've got to look to see where I can get more of that magic powder-to-spray chemical.

Posted by Mark Campbell (Member # 4411) on 06-16-2015, 04:19 PM:

Mike - ahead of a curtain purchase I would spend the money/effort on moveable masking for your screen if possible. I read on another topic that you have been cropping scope films and filling your 30 x 15 because the blank screen space drove you nuts. Since you have always been a stickler for keeping up your theater this seems a logical step.

I was recently on a business trip in South Carolina and, being away from my wife and small kids, I took advantage of my brief freedom to catch Mad Max: Fury Road at a local Regal. Was a shoebox kind of place with fixed masking. Much of the epic scenery and action seemed less epic and many of the closing credits were cut off.

I realize that in the new world of digital that the impact of scope has been lost because of filmmakers cropping the native image down to scope to give a "cinematic look" and because of new stadium theater builds offering only common width masking. But there are those films out there whose image should be seen as the filmmakers intended. There are even filmmakers still filming with true anamorphic 35mm (next Star Wars!).

I'll admit I am an anamorphic nut and being want to watch a film 100% as intended. But I do think the first step in your showmanship should be proper screen masking. Then the curtain…

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 06-16-2015, 06:50 PM:

Thanks everyone for the replies. You all feel the same way I do about curtains.

Just a little more FYI, the quote I got is from Franklin Designs of Mississippi; we've known the owners for several years, they are a long-time reputable company and will do a good job. The fabric they are proposing is "Starlette" fabric sewn in a box pleat pattern, which I don't know anything about, so I would appreciate any comments on that too, good or bad. They will also make a pre-install trip out here to survey the location and make sure the installation will work out as intended.

As for the masking... it is true that we crop the scope picture, but if it's necessary (if subtitles or credits get cut off) we can run it slightly letterboxed. If I do that, there's less than a foot of white at the top and bottom of the screen. Flat is pillarboxed and has been that way since Day 1 so I'm not as worried about that -- and heck, if the format used in Jurassic World becomes the new standard, we'll have a perfect shaped screen.

Moving masking would be a huge project to install due to the way our screen area is built (just ask Mark Gulbrandsen, he's seen it up close). The screen is curved but there is no frame; the anchors are just J-hooks, screwed directly into the walls, floor and ceiling and there's no space behind, above or along side it. So I've made peace with the fixed masking issue. The screen IS masked to 2:1, so the lacings don't show.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 06-16-2015, 07:30 PM:

Frank--that all makes perfect sense in your case, especially since yours is a city building. I know that, at least in Mass. and R.I., the fire marshalls tend to be pretty strict about things like curtains, aisle lighting, exit signs, and the like, although I don't know the specific requirements (which vary by city/town, anyway).

I think that this is largely a result of the nightclub fire in Rhode Island about ten years ago. No one wants to be responsible for another event like this, so current fire inspections are now quite strict. In general, I think that this is a good thing, and will improve fire safety in all public buildings.

Posted by Geoff Jones (Member # 3668) on 06-16-2015, 07:36 PM:

Mike, do you run pre-show ads, or just trailers and the feature?

If you run ads, I don't think the curtain is worth the expense. Sure, you can stop the ads a minute before the showtime, close the curtain, and then reopen it, like Harkins does in their big Cine Capri screens, but to me this is cheesy. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

However, if your intention is to have the curtain closed with lights shining on it and some appropriate film score playing in the background up until showtime, then dim down the lights, fade out the music and have the curtains open onto your first trailer or a welcome screen, then I think that would be spectacular and would help you stand apart from your competitors, including both home theaters and other cinemas.

$0.02

Posted by Michael Putlack (Member # 6523) on 06-16-2015, 08:45 PM:

If you get the curtain installed, you can have a "Grand Re-Opening" weekend and make a big deal about it. It would be great to do it to coincide with the new Star Wars or something else big!

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 06-16-2015, 10:57 PM:

quote: Geoff Jones
Mike, do you run pre-show ads, or just trailers and the feature?

If you run ads, I don't think the curtain is worth the expense. Sure, you can stop the ads a minute before the showtime, close the curtain, and then reopen it, like Harkins does in their big Cine Capri screens, but to me this is cheesy. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

We do run ads, but we generally open the doors 20 minutes before the showtime. The ad package is about 10 minutes, so I would plan to open the curtains for the ads, close them for a couple of minutes after the ads and reopen for the main show. I would do some stuff with the ceiling lights too, maybe having them on during the ads, then when the curtain closes, lower them to half before the trailers start and drop the curtain-warmer lights as the curtain is opening.

Believe me I would love to not run ads, but that money is going into my next-generation-digital-projector savings account. There are times when even an ancient theater has to bow to the circumstances of today.

Posted by Terry Monohan (Member # 8285) on 06-17-2015, 11:07 AM:

Mike your customers will love a curtain. The most important thing is to light them with COLOR lights. From the bottom start with LED lights that you can change the color every so often. A dark Blue/Red color looks great along the bottom shooting up. Are you going to put in the side to side type or waterfall going up type curtain? Don't forget to start the image of a film on the curtain then open them up. Don't open on a white screen like so many candy projection mangers do. Also put in a close tab after the trailers and open the curtain again on the main feature. Send us some photos when you get them up and going.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 06-17-2015, 11:24 AM:

Firstly, would sponsorship be something that could be investigated? From my experience in non-profits I've seen that it's much easier to interest a potential sponsor in a specific, visible item or project than in contributing to general running costs, because it gives the sponsor easy and good PR - e.g. "The July 4 classic movies weekend, sponsored by your local Chevy dealer" - that sort of thing. If there are any local businesses around (and especially local branches/presences of big businesses that could be looking for a tax writeoff), it might be worth working up a specific proposal, explaining how the sponsor would be getting positive PR from their partnership with you (e.g. an ad played at the start of each show for a year after the curtain goes up - that sort of thing).

Secondly, in terms of justifying the cost, instead of pitching it as a $20k investment (a big, scary number), pitching it as $4 per show for the next three years - half the hourly cost of the concessionist - might be less likely to scare your wife?

Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 06-19-2015, 03:58 PM:

Your intention to put in a curtain is laudable. Even if your customers don't notice it specifically, I think it's one of those things that adds to the moviegoing experience that people will appreciate, even if not directly because of that one single element.

I think the comparison to having a nice kitchen table or cleaning up the house before company comes over is a good one. Not because you are justifying this to your wife, but rather, it follows with your approach to showmanship.

When we have family over for Thanksgiving dinner, we use the good china and silverware we received as wedding presents. Would the meal taste as good if we just used our everyday plates and silverware? Sure, but the impression it leaves with our guests is worth the work of washing all that fancy stuff by hand instead of throwing the daily stuff in the dishwasher and hitting "turbo-wash."

When I have been most impressed with theaters, it has been because the finer details have been considered. Sure, the baseline should always be an excellent presentation of picture quality and sound quality. The bathrooms and lobby and auditoriums should always be clean and presentable.

But after that (assuming that those expectations have been reached, of course), it comes down to the friendliness of the staff, the condition of the building, and the various design elements.

If someone were to accuse you of running a classy movie theater, would there be enough evidence to convict you?

Having a screen open before the show is a class act thing to do. It's one of the things that you can do to set yourself apart from the multiplexes of the world.

One final thought, and this depends entirely upon your relationship with your wife.

In my situation, I just purchased a big-ticket item that I've been wanting for many years. I followed many eBay auctions and local sales and learned as much as I could about what a fair price is, and what was worth buying and what to avoid. The opportunity presented itself just recently, and my wife was completely supportive, even though she was nervous about the expenditure. When I expressed some "what the heck did I just do" doubts, she became concerned, but then I reassured her that I was confident about what I did and why, but I was just somewhat surprised that it finally happened. She had confidence in me that I was making a good decision, and supported me, even if it didn't have nearly the same value to her.

Your wife may be counting on you to exercise the proper due diligence and responsibility, and will allow that faith in you to carry her through what she considers to be a possibly unnecessary expense. If you are confident, exude that confidence and exercise it accordingly.

Good luck, and I look forward to seeing the installation!

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 06-19-2015, 05:45 PM:

The council-owned place that we operate has it's curtain operable again since Wednesday morning for the first time in a number of years. It will be used properly for the first time for the festival screenings of David Lean's 'Summer Madness', AKA 'Summertime' next Thursday. This evening I was projecting for the end of year show for the work of students from the college where I used to work, and I did close it at the end of the show.

Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 06-20-2015, 11:44 AM:

A single screener is the reel thing, opposed to the film supermarkets.
A single screener is cosy - and the moving curtain is a part of beeing cosy.
Go for it !

Per

Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 06-20-2015, 12:37 PM:

quote: Leo Enticknap
Firstly, would sponsorship be something that could be investigated?

That's in interesting thought that might be worth investigating.

Last year, I "adopted" the neon sign of a local non-profit theater when I noticed
some of its' neon was out and it needed some other repairs.

Their budget has been extremely tight since their conversion to digital, so they
had no money to take care of the sign.

I made a proposal to the owners to "adopt" the sign. We worked out a written
agreement, renewable yearly, and with a price cap, and also a liability release.
(If the sign came crashing down during a storm and landed on top of a car or
a little old lady, or I didn't want to be held legally or financially liable.)

The repairs I funded cost under $2,000, and since the theater is operated by
a non-profit, they gave me paperwork to take it off my taxes next year, so it
sorta works out well for both parties.

Maybe you can find a sponsor or generous patron to help fund your curtain installation.

Posted by John T. Hendrickson, Jr (Member # 849) on 06-20-2015, 02:01 PM:

Hey Mike. Haven't posted in eons, but this post caught my attention.

By all means, go for it!! I know you are the only game in town and it doesn't make sense from an economic standpoint, but if you have the money to do it, by all means indulge yourself. I have not been in a commercial theatre since the one I worked at got taken over three years ago and ended my time in the theatre business for good. But, if you were near me it would get me back for sure.

There are precious few single screens left, and they ALL deserve a curtain.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 06-21-2015, 12:48 PM:

quote: John T. Hendrickson, Jr
There are precious few single screens left, and they ALL deserve a curtain.

Spoken like a true showman, John; thank you. I am going to print it under a picture of my proscenium on 11x14, put in frames hang up one in my office and another in the rewind room first thing tomorrow morning!

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 06-21-2015, 01:42 PM:

If you don't mind a little humor... You'll probably never convince a woman who doesn't want to hang curtains!
[Wink]

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 06-21-2015, 03:08 PM:

quote: Leo Enticknap
instead of pitching it as a $20k investment

Ummm, did Mike actually say his quote was going to cost him $20k, or did you just pick a random number to prove a point?

If that's going to cost $20k then something is definitely wrong.

Maybe Joe would be willing to make you a custom intro that you could play on top of the curtains as they open. It could have your logo on screen with a kazoo band fanfare . Man that would be sweet. [Cool]

Mike, I seriously do applaud you for considering this and I do hope you are able to make it happen (just don't jeopardize the relationship). There are so few people around who seem to care anymore. I'm not like Guttag in saying that without a curtain there is no presentation quality, but anyone who actually goes to the effort and expense of adding a curtain...very admirable!

If you ever are able to figure out a way to get motorized masking in place, be sure to do top/bottom as well as side masking. This way you can shrink down the size of your screen during preshow. Customers would walk in and sit down, not really paying any attention to the content anyway (because it's preshow), then the curtains would close, there would be a nice bit of silence to get everyone's attention, the house lights start to dim (with the curtain lights still on bright to further attract attention to the stage) and then a few moments later the curtains start to open and suddenly the picture is noticeably bigger because it's the REAL show.

And don't forget to run your preshow ads in mono too. [Wink]

Posted by Steve Matz (Member # 1890) on 06-21-2015, 06:04 PM:

The way Theater Movie Screens were meant to be !
(minus the Green of course) [beer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atz_OLOQxqo

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 06-21-2015, 06:38 PM:

quote: Brad Miller
And don't forget to run your preshow ads in mono too.

How does one do this with [dlp]

? The ads that I have seen lately are mixed as left/right, with no center channel or surrounds, and would honestly sound better in mono, anyway.

Is there a way to get a CP650 and/or DMA8 to produce a downmixed mono version from a 6-channel digital input?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-22-2015, 07:07 AM:

On the DMA8 (and the CP650) use the pro-logic mode to downmix the stereo track to something that is center heavy.

Posted by Steve Moore (Member # 4753) on 06-22-2015, 09:37 AM:

I love that we still close curtains; dim everything but the tabs and re-open in a wider scope... go for it Mike! To me it still makes the difference!

Posted by Robert E. Allen (Member # 1351) on 06-22-2015, 03:31 PM:

But it does add to the presentation Mike. You would not go to any live performance and see a curtainless stage before the performance. I remember working a UA theatre years ago that had two curtains. As I dimmed the houselights I raised the teardrop curtain which exposed the travel curtain. After the film company's logo finished I opened the travel curtain and dimmed the colored lights that were shining on it. The problem with today's multiplexes is there is no SHOWMANship in the auditoriums and that had dummed-down today's generation regarding what a REAL theatre looks like. Go for it Mike. Your patrons will appreciate it.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 06-22-2015, 08:50 PM:

What I meant by "presentation" was the movie itself. Yep I'm all about the show as a whole.... which is why we use the colored lights across the screen before the show starts. I can't stand having the audience seeing a blank screen, it's just wired into my DNA I guess!

Posted by Pravin Ratnam (Member # 1417) on 06-22-2015, 09:17 PM:

You have to pick your battles. I am someone who has enjoyed going to the theater since I was a little kid in the 70s. When I went to India later on, curtains were a big part of the theater experience even there. Having said that, curtains are a lower priority to me compared to BRIGHT bulbs for projection(my pet peeve is how many multiplexes have a problem with light levels), proper masking, well maintained sound, well designed acoustics.

If you are able to spend money on all of those top priorities and still make a profit, then worry about a luxury feature like a curtain. Most of us don't even come to the theater early enough to catch the curtain opening and stay long enough after the credits to watch it close. There are no intermisssions to watch the curtain close and open.

I hate to say it. But for even the average middle aged frequent moviegoer, let alone the average moviegoer who is younger, the movable curtain may not be a huge deal. I will settle for getting rid of those dastardly Liemax screens that look like a giant blank white cardboard cutout serving as a temporaray screen hanging from the ceiling.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 06-23-2015, 12:04 AM:

Well... we have everything on your list except the masking, which was discussed above. I tend to try to save up for occasional large projects like this. The last one was our new speakers and baffle wall in 2012, and in 2008 we renovated the concession stand. The only other thing we're working on right now is a repaint of the outside, which won't cost all that much.

Really the biggest question in my own mind is, do I spend money on the curtain or keep it aside for the inevitable, probably-five-years-or-so-down-the-road, next digital upgrade? If I thought the projection system would last another 10 or 15 years, then the curtain would be an easier spend. But, who knows?

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 06-23-2015, 01:20 AM:

Not to find fault with your setup, but if it were me I would be more inclined to find a way to get a proper Cinemascope ratio screen installed in your theatre before adding a frill like a curtain.

The customers are paying to see the picture on the screen, and if it's being cut off at the sides, you aren't giving them with everything that you could be providing them with if your screen was wider.

My screen is sized to be a "perfect" Cinemascope screen; we projected a Scope test pattern on the screen and then masked up to the edge of that when we installed the screen. Flat movies are pillarboxed but I can live with that -- I'm still showing the audience everything the director intended for them to see.

I don't have room for curtains in my theatre because my screen comes very close to the side walls and the curtains would have nowhere to fold into. But I still prefer my full-sized Cinemascope screen over having curtains.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 06-23-2015, 01:55 PM:

Well it's a compromise. We can run the full scope picture, but it has the dreaded white space top and bottom, so I zoom it and a bit of the sides is cut off. Only about one or two movies a decade have anything like credits, titles, etc. that go way out to the edge, but if that happens then we run it with the dreaded white space. I think the picture looks much better slightly zoomed than with the white space.

We can't make the screen any wider because it's wall to wall. If I was to mask the screen down to the proper scope ratio, then the flat picture would be much smaller due to the loss of height.It's not possible to install movable masking due to the ancient way our stage/screen is built -- it would require tearing everything out and rebuilding it for a change nobody would even notice.

Sooooo -- I've made my peace with the 2:1 screen. Hell, if the Jurassic World format catches on, we're in perfect shape. We're probably one of the only theaters in this region playing it in the proper sized (and masked) format.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 06-23-2015, 04:15 PM:

Mike, you are not alone -- LOTS of single screens ran into this problem when scope was introduced. The proscenium arches were simply not designed for that wide aspect ratio. Thing is, your compromise isn't nearly as bad as what many modern builds have resorted to -- fixed width screens. You have no choice; they do that horror show ON PURPOSE!

I'll bet the only time you have a problem will be with old scope titles if you were to run classics at any time; there they were composing with ONLY a CinemaScope screen in a real movie theatre in mind, as it was the only place anyone would see that movie. No one worried about video. Today, everything is composed safe for 16:9 and HDTVs, probably IMAX too, mostly to the detriment of what the full scope image is capable of conveying. So, as you say, rarely will you find your 2:1 compromise actually chopping off any essential image elements. I guess you can thank DVDs and HDTVs for that and whatever was going thru the minds of Colin Trevorrow and his cinematographer when they decided on 2:1 for JW.

Posted by Pravin Ratnam (Member # 1417) on 06-23-2015, 04:29 PM:

Sorry guys. But I prefer a proper aspect ratio to not having any blank screen area. Obviously proper masking is ideal. And it is preferable to having a common height screen to a common width screen just to watch the masking unveil the wider aspect ratio. But in the absence of that(as it does not seem feasible in Mike's case), I will take the blank spaces. We live with it on home video and just think of how all of us felt when cable networks like HBO would refuse to letterbox a lot of their movies for the same reason Mike just gave.

When I see blank spaces on the top and bottom for 2.35:1 movies, it doesn't bother me as much as knowing that widescreen movie is cut off on the sides. I have seen that before and it bothers me. Now, I will admit, most moviegoers do not care about this as much as I do. But a lot of them don't care about curtains either and so if you spend money on curtains, it better be for your personal satisfaction and not for any business related justification.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 06-23-2015, 06:51 PM:

quote: Frank Angel
LOTS of single screens ran into this problem when scope was introduced. The proscenium arches were simply not designed for that wide aspect ratio.

Since the Roxy was built in 1930, it originally had a squarish screen with exits on both sides of it. When they converted to Scope in 1953, they took those exits out and built a side-door exit next to the screen.

I'm glad that we have the choice for scope movies - if anybody ever does comment to me that the picture is cut off at the sides, I'll be able to push one button and make them happy (well hopefully).

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-04-2015, 11:18 PM:

Just to update things on this thread, we had two things happen: First, the curtain price quote came in higher than I expected, and then we had an equipment problem (media block) and had to spend some bucks to get that fixed. So the curtain project has been put off for a short period while I 'save up' some more. Updates, pictures and so forth will definitely appear when it goes forward.

Posted by Alan Plester (Member # 852) on 08-05-2015, 01:30 PM:

Sorry to hear that Mike, damn curved balls, it will happen, and then you can look forward to some reel magic in your theatre.
Good luck

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 08-08-2015, 08:00 PM:

Interesting to add, outside of the looks and grandeur of what a curtain does to the location, but keeps the screen more cleaner from dust blown up the blowers used to do auditoriums.

Otherwise, invest in a screen brush and do monthly, vertical only wipedowns....and do the back side also, for "dust bunnies" populate behind a screen.