This is topic Digital Signage Program in forum Ground Level at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 11-10-2015, 08:11 PM:
After 6 months of hard work, I've co-developed a digital sign program that can work with most Movie Theatre P.O.S. software (at least three that I've tested so far). When I started the project, it was mostly was for the theatres within the company I work for. It was a reaction to the absolute astronomical pricing out there from the various companies that I had received quotes from and the current money we were spending with a certain movie theatre mylar company. The advantages of the program I've helped develop are:
(1) Extreme Lost cost hardware (media players)
(2) Low monthly and/or yearly rates
(3) The ability to control the box office showtime sign from a web based GUI (including images and show schedule file)
(4) Auditorium signs that would not require network connectivity (Meaning no running of CAT5 cable!) and can quickly be changed if you have to move a film to a different auditorium.
(5) Access to web server with HD graphics for film titles
(6) Ability to request/create custom sign graphics for special shows and/or titles
The reason I am posting on here about it is: Do you think there is a market for this product? This was a solution to a problem that I encountered, and I refused to be at the mercy of the companies that want to charge an ridiculous amount of money for their products that I consider inferior. Additionally, I researched the amount of money that we were spending on mylars and was blown away on the yearly cost (it's one thing to see those weekly invoices, it's quite another to see how much you are spending yearly!). So I am considering offering it to other independent theatre owners, what do you think?
Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 11-11-2015, 12:14 PM:
There is definitely a market for Point Of Sale sign software and digital sign products for movie theaters and many other kinds of businesses. But it's not an easy thing to tackle.
Which systems are you comparing the setup you co-developed against?
The hardware is one thing. It's one thing to make it low cost, but it has to be durable. Some environments are very rough for electronics, such as fast food restaurants. The systems are going to be running all the time and expected to run at least several years.
I like being able to connect digital signs via a mac address filtered WiFi setup. We do this with some LED-based electronic variable message center setups using directional radios. Just about all use some kind of radio communication. It's rare we have to run CAT5 or fiber optic connections.
The biggest hurdle: content. That's the thing that goofs it up for most small businesses. Somebody has to create the messages, graphic design, video, etc. to play on these displays. There is a big learning curve there for the average person, and that's just for non-interactive stuff. If the digital signs, kiosk displays, menu boards, etc. are interactive or correspond with web content then a bunch of scripting can come into play. For most small businesses if they buy a digital sign system they have to rely at least in some part on 3rd parties for content creation services. Bigger businesses might be able to design/develop that stuff in house.
We sell a lot of LED signs from Daktronics and mainly use their Venus 1500 software to control them. It's easy enough for most people to be able to use and can do a lot of basic things. For more complex video or graphics effects it becomes necessary to use apps like Photoshop or After Effects and generate AVI or MP4 files from the animated layouts.
Regarding mylars, I'm not surprised they would be expensive. They're specialty products that have to be printed in a certain manner so the image doesn't wash out when back-lit. The imagery also has to be customized to fit a variety of auditorium signs in different sizes and proportions.
Very little in large format printing is what I would consider cheap. Our "consumables" (vinyls, laminates, inks, etc.) is pretty expensive, especially when buying materials that are worth a damn and tailored to the project. It's funny to see some idiot shop try to wrap a vehicle using cheap vinyl when they should have used 3M or Arlon vehicle wrap grade vinyl. The wrap falls apart after a few months.
Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 11-11-2015, 12:56 PM:
Bobby,
Most of the major Movie Theatre P.O.S. companies offer a digital signage "package" if you use their P.O.S. system. However, the disadvantage of it - is that is extremely expensive. I imagine that some Independent operators do not have the budget for the "Set-up" costs and the yearly fees they charge. I also think that the Independent operators feel like that have no other choice but to use the one they get offered from their P.O.S. vendor.
With the system I have come up with (we've been field testing for 6 months)- it is co-designed by a theatre operator and built in such a way that the owner/operator has more control over their own individual system. No more calling an 800 number to report that their signs did not update because they had to drop a show. They also can change their auditorium signs fairly easy if they have to move a show around (again, no waiting for the signs to update). Another major positive point, which I can guarantee no other vendor can offer: No need to run CAT 5 cable up and down the hallways and back to the manager office to use the auditorium signs (all of the Sign vendors require a hard wire configuration that I have dealt with in this business).
As far as hardware reliability: Again, the actual hardware devices have been built and tested extensively. I have had several devices running in the field for two years with no issues (running different software).
One thing to keep in mind though: This system is actually designed strictly for movie theatres. While I am sure they could be used in other applications, this was done from the ground up to be used in movie theatres specifically.
Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 11-11-2015, 04:13 PM:
When it comes to digital signs for individual auditoriums, I usually see LED-based, text only displays incorporated into an auditorium label sign. I often see the same thing in the ticket booth. They're usually monochrome displays with either Red or Amber LEDs.
I know Daktronics makes LED displays for that purpose for some theater chains. Time-O-Matic/WatchFire and some other companies may also do that as well. I don't know the details how one would dove-tail the operation of those signs directly into theater POS software. But I do know dedicated message center software for those kinds of signs is pretty easy to set up and operate.
If we're talking about signs that use flat screen TV monitors as the sign display then it's an entirely different situation with much greater data demands, learning curve for users, etc.
Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 11-13-2015, 01:32 PM:
Here are two images from our beta test. We will be installing a theatre with vertical monitors next month and will be using actual poster images. The box sign here is for a four screen theatre, but the program can display up to 24 titles without a problem.
Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 11-13-2015, 02:32 PM:
Dennis,
How are you getting the images to the auditorium displays without network connectivity? "No running of CAT5 cable!" could mean that it's all done over WiFi, except for the fact that WiFi is a type of network connectivity and you say "would not require network connectivity."
Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 11-13-2015, 03:20 PM:
I created an internal sign system for my company, so I can definitely say there would be a market for a low cost system for independent theatres.
My system is basically web pages built with PHP and MySQL. We have an internal computer working as our sign server which is running Apache and MySQL. We don't have a real time feed from our POS system, but we import times via an XML feed from our POS system.
We opted for a more minimalist approach with regard to movie graphics because it gave us space to have more information and display information in a less confusing manner.
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 11-13-2015, 05:34 PM:
Where does one get digital copies of the artwork for films that can be used for this sort of system? Is there a place online to download high-res movie artwork?
(Sorry to hijack this thread...I know next to nothing about digital signage.)
Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 11-13-2015, 06:58 PM:
Scott, the single best place I've found for a non-subscritpion service is IMP Awards (Internet Movie Poster). You can also find stuff on IMDb and Comingsoon.net.
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 11-13-2015, 08:09 PM:
That movie poster site is great; thanks!
Posted by David Buckley (Member # 2600) on 11-14-2015, 03:57 AM:
If one wants to do digital signage to LCD panels, then there are a number of commercial digital signage offerings and the open source Xibo, which, because its both free and good, is a very widely used system and has been around for some years.
Xibo 1.8, in beta now, stable release out soon will feature a full API, so an easy solution would be to do the general layouts in Xibo, and then a bit of shim code to link the POS to Xibo API for updating stuff.
Xibo, like make digital signage systems, uses a content management system, that runs on the LAMP or WAMP (ie on your office PC) stacks,and has a windows based player, which can be a small PC that goes on the VESA bracket on the back of the LCD telly.
Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 11-14-2015, 06:14 AM:
Ken,
The media device that is attached to the auditorium monitor has a USB port. You download the artwork onto the USB drive, then plug into the USB drive. If you have to move a movie title to a different auditorium, you simply swap the USB stick. Currently, we provide the artwork to other theatre locations through a Google Drive account. They just log in and download the artwork they need.
Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 11-16-2015, 09:54 AM:
I know you're a huge Raspberry Pi fan. Is that by any chance what you're using? If so, and one wanted to run network cables or provide wi-fi, could graphics be delivered that way?
Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 11-16-2015, 10:19 AM:
Ken,
Absolutely. The issue with using WI-FI is that movie theatres are typically very large with a lot of steel (and other things that cause interference). Repeaters or multiple routers can get expensive and complicated. Also, having to go back and run CAT5 or CAT6 through an existing building can be labor intensive, time consuming, and expensive.
Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 11-16-2015, 11:17 AM:
And having someone hoof it back and forth through the entire complex loading the data onto each individual device on a daily or even more frequent basis isn't labor intensive, time consuming, and expensive, not to mention error-prone?
With network cables you install them once, then program your signs without getting out of your chair.
Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 11-16-2015, 11:20 AM:
I'm with Frank. Network installation is a one-time deal. But it's cool that there are options for those unable or unwilling to install networking infrastructure.
Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 11-16-2015, 01:15 PM:
Frank,
When I was an usher, I had to gather all the marquee letters every Thursday night for each film, get a ladder and go to each auditorium and put those titles up. Mylars were a great improvement in that I didn't have to gather/separate marquee letters anymore - I just had to drag a ladder around to each auditorium and change the mylar. Changing out a flash drive is way easier than any of the older methods. I am not deterring anyone from running CAT5 cable up and down their hallways, I had simply come up with a solution to save money and still have HD Graphics without all the extra cost. If someone were to run CAT5, the same sign program could be run and the changing around of flash drives would be obsolete.
Just how lazy have we gotten in the new century?
Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 11-16-2015, 03:37 PM:
I view the networking capability as a way to avoid human error, rather than being lazy. I make my schedule on the POS system, then sync it to our LMS, web site, and sign system. Our times are also sent digitally to Cinema Source and the other show times services. It virtually eliminates the chance for human error - aside from me making a mistake when scheduling movies.
Besides the human factor with moving thumb drives, I would also be concerned with the wear and tear on USB ports. It may take a couple years, but eventually those ports will wear out.
Don't get me wrong, I think it's a fine idea for situations where a wired or wireless network is not available for one reason or another. I would just be encouraging a network solution and only using USB as backup option.
Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 11-16-2015, 05:49 PM:
First off all, congratulations. Looks like a cool product and although it's a niche market, I'm sure there are still sufficient small and medium sized potential customers out there.
But regarding this off-line system, you should also consider the extra support load caused by error prone solutions like shuffling USB sticks around. Everything that requires extra human interaction, creates extra opportunities of stuff going wrong. If you have ever dealt with some basic customer support on IT related stuff from the dark side of things, you should know what I'm talking about.
Keep in mind that, unless you've got the resources to hire someone picking up the phone for you, they will call you. Since cinema operations are also done at odd times, they will call you late at night too. They will also claim it is the most important thing in the world and it MUST be fixed RIGHT NOW or the little kitty is going to die...
The best solution to avoid this, is not to write contracts, but to avoid it happening entirely.
So, I'd scrap this off-line thing entirely and I'd demand a proper WIRED network. And unless it's carrier grade equipment maintained by people who know what they're doing, also avoid wireless like the plague.
Just my $0.02 ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
But yeah, I've been there, got the T-Shirt, buried it, dug it back up and burned it during the last T-Shirt Burning Day.
Posted by Buck Wilson (Member # 5885) on 11-16-2015, 10:14 PM:
On the flip side of the same coin, if everything is on a network, it would just take one issue to take EVERYTHING down instead of just one hall sign or what have you.
And he already said it COULD be hooked up via network. I think it's great to offer it both ways. Plus there are plenty of independents that just have 2-4 screens and truly see no need to network their auditorium signs.
Posted by Mark Hajducki (Member # 1732) on 11-18-2015, 06:10 PM:
Does this system have a USB stick per cinema, screen or film?
If a screen has different films showing in it throughout the day would a member of staff have to change the stick between shows?
Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 11-23-2015, 07:44 PM:
Mark,
The currently locations using this system that have multiple titles playing in a single auditorium - have custom artwork made displaying the multiple titles. So there is no need to switch out the USB sticks. So each auditorium does have it's own USB stick for the week. The switching out of the USB stick would only take place if the scheduled films switch to a completely different auditorium.
Alternatively - if you use the networked system, you wouldn't have to switch anything.
Posted by Richard Orsak (Member # 4472) on 12-28-2015, 10:02 AM:
How does one go about wanting to try this system?
Posted by Joel Pell (Member # 4375) on 01-14-2016, 04:53 PM:
I am also interested in this program. Can you email additional information?
Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 03-20-2016, 08:29 AM:
Some examples of the program:
Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 06-16-2016, 06:50 AM:
Wanted to post an update about the digital signage program. We have our final auditorium signage design. These are still pictures of the networked system. There are three different poster images that rotate every 15 seconds or so:
Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 06-16-2016, 12:30 PM:
Where are you getting the poster images for your display?
Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 06-16-2016, 01:27 PM:
Frank
Internet Movie Poster Awards site
Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 06-16-2016, 04:14 PM:
Yes. What he said.
Posted by Richard Orsak (Member # 4472) on 09-06-2016, 01:10 PM:
Dennis, looking to get back with you...sent email
Richard
Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 09-08-2016, 04:52 PM:
Looks great Dennis!
Posted by Manny Montes (Member # 5639) on 09-08-2016, 08:40 PM:
Dennis,
Is this running at all of the sites now? Or just a few? Have one nearby and wanted to check it out in person if it was.
Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 09-16-2016, 02:47 PM:
We have 51 of these signs up and running at various locations.
Obviously our new locations are running them 100%. (Prince Fredrick, Maryland, Falmouth and Oxford, Maine).
Several of our sites still utilize R.T.S. signage - we are reviewing each location that already have a form of digital signage and deciding whether or not we want to change out the hardware. You know, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
We also have some sites that are not utilizing digital signage at all. That will change in the future as we re-model our older locations.
Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 11-01-2016, 10:23 AM:
As of today. 75 signs are out in the field.
Now that we are utilizing this system for Ads and Previews, it is expanding rapidly.
Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 02-06-2017, 02:47 PM:
Just an update:
As of today, this sign program is running on 110 devices.
I didn't know we'd break 100 that fast!
Posted by Michael Putlack (Member # 6523) on 02-08-2017, 01:35 AM:
I'm just commenting so I can access Dennis' profile to shoot him an email!
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-10-2017, 10:32 AM:
Dennis... I had a customer asking me about doing this just a week ago. If you are interested in branching out into other States just let me know. You would sell the signage system or software direct to them and I set up & install. They do use a POS but it is not tied into their TMS by their own choice, so this would need to run on a stand alone computer, or perhaps their TMS server. They do have TMS systems at both their sites. Their location is also very high profile.
Mark
Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 02-10-2017, 04:58 PM:
You can e-mail me. The devices that I build and program need to have access to the Internet and need a local area connection to the POS server (wirelessly is possible, but wired is preferred). The software on each device is stand alone, so there is no other program that is needed to run it. The POS software needs to be able to upload the schedule in .txt form to the FTP server on the individual device.
Since we have over one hundred devices up and running now (Box Office Showtime signs, Auditorium signs, Trailer monitors, and still ad signs)adding more signs/locations isn't a big deal and it guarantees uptime and reliability.
There is a one time charge for each device and there is a flat monthly fee per device also.
Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 02-25-2017, 08:26 AM:
A couple more examples. We have decided to move away from another vendor's sign program (mentioned in an earlier post) at the remainder of our locations due to the sheer simplicity of this program and it's cost effectiveness.
Posted by Manny Montes (Member # 5639) on 03-01-2017, 01:49 AM:
Dennis,
does the box office system indicate sold out shows when they sell out? or does it not read that from the POS system
Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 03-01-2017, 07:35 PM:
Manny -
Yes. Like the P.O.S. system - the showtime turns yellow when the seats get low, then the showtime turns red when it is sold out.
Posted by Russ Levinson (Member # 7185) on 03-18-2017, 08:11 PM:
Very interested in this! Anyone else purchase these yet?
Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 04-12-2017, 05:38 AM:
Due to the number of e-mails that I am getting from this, I've decided to make a webpage. Eventually, it will become a full website. So, it is a work in progress:
Digital Cinema Signs
Again, this is in it's infancy. It's needs a lot of improvement.
Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 06-07-2017, 05:31 PM:
We are doing video walls now!
(Pay no attention to the Pepsi Aspire machines being installed below the video wall, I have nothing to do with that)
Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 01-04-2018, 01:41 PM:
As of today we are at 160 Digital signs.
This includes Box Office Signs, Auditorium signs, Trailer monitors, Video Walls, and Pricing monitors.
Adding ten more this month. We will break 200 by the summer...
Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 04-09-2018, 03:25 PM:
196 signs.
Posted by Manny Montes (Member # 5639) on 04-20-2018, 04:28 AM:
Dennis,
Do you think hardware wise this could also be put on a chromebit?
Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 08-22-2019, 10:39 AM:
It has been 489 days since the last post.