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Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 03-09-2016, 06:38 PM:
 
The latest attempt to wipe out movie theaters for fun and profit:
quote:
Studios, Exhibitors Consider Revolutionary Plan for Day-and-Date Movies at Home (EXCLUSIVE)

Brent Lang
Senior Film and Media Reporter
@BrentALang

Studios, Exhibitors Consider Revolutionary Plan Day-and-Date

MARCH 9, 2016 | 03:41PM PT
Tech moguls Sean Parker, Prem Akkaraju pitch industry on premium service offering $50 rentals of new releases

Five years ago, major studios attempts to offer first-run movies in the home months early set off a fierce standoff with theater owners.

Now, a startup backed by Sean Parker of Facebook and Napster fame is trying to encourage Hollywood studios and exhibitors to wade back into those controversial waters. Called the Screening Room, the company offers secure, anti-piracy technology that will offer new releases in the home on the same day they hit theaters, sources tell Variety.

Individuals briefed on the plan said Screening Room would charge about $150 for access to the set top box that transmits the movies and charge $50 per view. Consumers have a 48-hour window to view the film.

To get exhibitors on board, the company proposes cutting them in on a significant percentage of the revenue, as much as $20 of the fee. As an added incentive to theater owners, Screening Room is also offering customers who pay the $50 two free tickets to see the movie at a cinema of their choice. That way, exhibitors would get the added benefit of profiting from concession sales to those moviegoers.

Participating distributors would also get a cut of the $50 dollar per view proceeds, also believed to be 20%, before Screening Room took its own fee of 10%.

Representatives from the Screening Room have been pounding the pavement in recent months, meeting with all of the major studios and feeling out exhibitors, more than a half dozen industry insiders confirmed to Variety. Parker, who is the major investor in Screening Room, has tapped former Sony Pictures worldwide marketing and distribution chief Jeff Blake in an advisory capacity. He has been working on the project and has deep ties to both the exhibition and studio communities.

At the presentations, Screening Room officials have told studio executives that they are close to finalizing a deal with AMC, which is poised to be the world’s largest exhibitor if its acquisition of Carmike Cinemas is approved by regulators.

There is serious interest from several of the major studios, including Universal, Fox and Sony, people familiar with the matter say. Those studios are continuing to study the business plan and deal terms and remain engaged in discussions with Screening Room. However, many cautioned that the talks are still in the initial stages. For its part, Disney, does not appear to be interested in the plan.

One potential deterrent for distributors is that Screening Room is looking to be the exclusive content partner. This may give pause to studios like Universal, that makes movies available through parent company Comcast, or Sony, which has family ties to Playstation.

On the other hand, the company’s anti-piracy technology could be appealing to studios who struggle with global content theft. Major films can be widely available illegally on line in file-sharing sites within hours of their release.

However, some exhibitors worry that they would essentially be midwifing their demise by agreeing to shrink the windows–which continues to be a hot-button issue for theater owners. Regal, for example, has steadfastly refused to screen any films that do not agree to a standard, exclusive theatrical run of roughly 90 days. Box office hit record levels last year, crossing $11 billion for the first time in history. But attendance has been essentially flat in recent years.

Although a few studios, such as Paramount and Universal, have tried to cook up alternative distribution strategies in recent years, most distributors have been wary of upsetting exhibitors. Last fall, Paramount teamed with a few chains, such as AMC and Cineplex, AMC and Cineplex, on a plan that allowed them to release the pictures on home entertainment platforms 17 days after the number of theaters showing the films dipped below 300.

There have also been efforts to create technology that allows consumers to watch major studio films in the home. Prima Cinema’s, for instance, boasts a box that allows customers to screen new releases, but is priced at a much steeper, $35,000.

In addition to Parker, Prem Akkaraju serves as CEO of the company and its co-founder. He was previously a partner at the electronic music company SFX Entertainment and was a partner at InterMedia Partners. In addition, he worked at JP Morgan Entertainment Partners and Sanctuary Music Group.

Representatives for Screening Room declined comment, as did AMC and the major studios.

Variety
 
Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 03-09-2016, 07:50 PM:
 
The article appears to confuse $ with %. Assuming the entire split is in $, first of all, how do the exhibitors split their $20? Who gets the credit?

Second, how does this make any sense for studios. Again, assuming everything is supposed to be in $ not %, the studio only gets a 40% cut when they are getting a 50% cut now.

If this company is pitching that they will get more total revenue, they are nuts. The vast majority of people that shell out $50 for a PPV movie are going to invite a bunch of people over. In 4 months or so, they can rent the Blu-ray from Redbox for $2 and the studios think people will shell out $50 and sit and watch by themselves or with 1 other person?
 
Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 03-09-2016, 08:07 PM:
 
I don't really understand the constant desire to get theatrical movies into homes so quick. It's not like that demand won't be there several months down the line. The only thing this accomplishes is minimizing movie theatres.
 
Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 03-09-2016, 09:55 PM:
 
Not totally sure what is going on, but since they seem to be making a deal with AMC here's what I think they are suggesting.

The distributors, for their cut of the $50 dollar fee, make the feature available to the Screening Room company for in home distribution day and date.

The exhibitor, AMC in this case, gets the exclusive rights to sell home viewing tickets as part of their deal when the book the film. They get $20 (or 20% if that's a typo) for every home view ticket they sell.

I'm guessing the only way this can work is for one exhibitor to have exclusive rights to selling the home tix, thus undercutting the competition who may have booked the film, but won't profit off of the home viewer. And that Screening Room doesn't sell tix while it is still on screen at the partner's theatre. Studio gets money no matter how tickets are sold, so they don't give a rats ass about the theatre.

Will viewing public pay $50 to watch a movie at home? If you have enough people, I guess it makes it worthwhile if you don't mind viewing at home.
 
Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-09-2016, 11:34 PM:
 
I don't think this concept has much of a chance at all at any kind of success. They're over-selling the dollar value of watching movies at home. Only the most douchey of home theater owners would be keen at all to spend $50 to watch a new movie at home the same time it opens in first run theaters.

People do already spend $50 or $60 to order premium pay per view events at home, but those are typically LIVE events such as a UFC fight night or a high profile boxing match. It's not something where the viewer has a 48 hour window to view the product.

There's no problem organizing a house party around a live pay per view UFC fight event. The fights are happening live and anyone interested at all in that kind of thing will adjust his/her schedule to watch it. Getting a group of people to do the same thing just to watch a freaking movie on a home TV screen will be a far more difficult task, especially if the viewing environment is just an ordinary living room and ordinary TV set.

I think this "Screening Room" thing will end up being yet another failed Day-and-Date movie release scheme gone bust. And I hope things like this fail and keep on failing. Because if any of them achieve a significant level of success it may push commercial movie theaters over the brink into failure.

If commercial movie theaters fail the entire movie industry will follow them into failure. Without movie theater screens the movie studios would just be making TV shows. No movie studio is going to spend $100-$200 million making a 2-hour movie production if it only plays on home TV screens. They're sure not going to spend tens of millions marketing made for TV movies either.
 
Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 03-10-2016, 05:16 AM:
 
Martin,

The only problem with one exhibitor getting the exclusive to sell the home tickets is that the other exhibitors won't play the movie.

A scheme like this would make a lot more sense as some kind of premium home release. For example, after a 16 week theatrical window, there would be a 6 week premium PPV window. $50 is too much for that but since the exhibitors would be ok with it and wouldn't need a cut you could drop the price to $25.

Towards the end of the window, nobody is going to pay that much when they can pay $5 a few days later. That is why I made my hypothetical window 6 weeks. The first 2-3 weeks will be relatively far from the normal value menu release.
 
Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 03-10-2016, 07:51 AM:
 
Lyle: yeah, your version makes more "sense" in a world where this whole scheme makes sense, but they are the ones who are talking about a cut going to the disturbs. I was just trying to figure out a mechanism for that working.

I anxiously await the final product.
 
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 03-10-2016, 01:44 PM:
 
quote: Justin Hamaker
I don't really understand the constant desire to get theatrical movies into homes so quick.
Neither do I. At $50/screening, it would only be cheaper than cinema tickets for people with large families or groups of friends. And the average home television set does not compare with the average cinema for picture and sound quality. I wonder what the target audience of something like this would be? Maybe people with young children?
 
Posted by David Buckley (Member # 2600) on 03-10-2016, 01:56 PM:
 
quote: Justin Hamaker
I don't really understand the constant desire to get theatrical movies into homes so quick
Once they figure out how to make the same dollar with direct-to-home distribution, that's the end of exhibition. That's the plan; exhibition is an unnecessary step between production and monetization.

However, as others in this very thread have pointed out, the economics just don't stack up. Won't stop them looking for the holy grail though.
 
Posted by Dan Puma (Member # 9324) on 03-10-2016, 03:16 PM:
 
I really can't see people paying $150 for a device that only give you the right to stream movies for $50(!). I can imagine $50 new releases cutting into box gross a little bit if it was attached to On Demand, or even Apple TV or Roku, but can't imagine this will have much of an impact.
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-10-2016, 03:18 PM:
 
quote: David Buckley
exhibition is an unnecessary step
That's the problem -- they don't realize that exhibition is a NECESSARY step to lend legitimacy to their productions. Like Bobby points out, without exhibition they're just making TV shows.

I get the feeling these articles are written by avid "home theater" buffs who are just breathless at the thought of getting movies day-and-date with theaters. As soon as the latest crackpot idea comes up these articles are just bursting with anticipation.

What really irritates me is the way exhibition is always painted as the "bad guy" in these articles, as if we're a bunch of greedy bastards. It's always 'theater owners were furious' or 'a fierce battle with theater owners' or whatever. After all these alternative distribution methods continue to flop, why don't those assclowns GET IT? We are the engine that pulls the entertainment train. It would be a monumental job to get the kind of money from a straight-to-home release that they get when theaters come first. And they would get even more money if they stretched the window out to 6 months or more, like the good Lord intended. Like Rodney Dangerfield, we don't get no respect, no respect at all.
 
Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 03-10-2016, 05:15 PM:
 
quote: Mike Blakesley
What really irritates me is the way exhibition is always painted as the "bad guy" in these articles, as if we're a bunch of greedy bastards.
This attitude trickles down to the general public, perpetuating the notion that movie theatres are just raking in the money and making ungodly profits. We recently had someone post a review on our Facebook page calling us greedy bastards because we don't have the newest luxury seats. He went on to say that he would be taking his money 40 miles down the road.

His attitude did a 180 when I explained that our seats haven't been replaced because of the money we had to spend on digital projectors. I also explained that the theatre 40 miles down the road was part of the largest chain in the country which had plenty of cash flow, while we are an independent theatre.
 
Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 03-10-2016, 07:44 PM:
 
Several weeks ago, I met with someone, who I'm pretty sure represented
this company, to do a public demo of their device here in San Francisco.

They wanted to be sure their 'server'could interface with the equipment
at the screening room we were meeting at that day.

Beyond that I can't say much, other than:
1) I have yet to hear back from them;
2) No, it wasn't the Dolby Screening Room where I work at.

I was given some technical details but asked not to share them publicly,
but from the info in the article that started this thread, it sure seems like
they guy I met with was representing that company- - or else two companies
are planning to offer the exact same service . . . . .
 
Posted by Buck Wilson (Member # 5885) on 03-12-2016, 12:54 AM:
 
Justin, Just looked up that review. The sheer fact he said "Wow can't believe you responded" shows, and rightfully so, the low expectations of the average patrons to typical theater management(the big guys).

Not only did you deescalate the dude, you made him apologize and made him realize not all theater companies suck! [thumbsup]
 
Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 03-12-2016, 05:17 AM:
 
quote: David Buckley
That's the plan; exhibition is an unnecessary step between production and monetization.
So, the long-term strategy here is to cut out those greedy bastards in the exhibition industry and replace them with 10-dollar a month subscription plans from the likes of Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, Google and Apple? Because you know, they're nice and totally not greedy at all...

I'm pretty sure this plan will never fly. Maybe they get the contracts all right, but then... crickets. Paying 50 bucks to see a movie at home just isn't happening. Yeah, you can share with friends, but like Bobby already mentioned, getting a bunch of people together and watch a movie at someone's home, while sharing the costs, how often does that ever happen? Maybe for a special, one-off happening, broadcasted live, but for a movie from "tape"?

For most people, going to see a movie in a proper movie theater is still something special. It's a night out or an impotant part of a night out. Something most people are willing to spend more money on than watching a movie at home. This is also where the beef is for all those studios, let's hope they don't forget it.
 
Posted by Daniel Schulz (Member # 1881) on 03-12-2016, 02:56 PM:
 
I am intrigued at how many people are trying this sort of thing right now. As everyone on this forum knows, there has forever been a mechanism for Hollywood A-List types to get day-and-date (or even pre-release) movies for their private home screening rooms. This was done, not as a business, but as a sort of courtesy, a perk of being a studio executive or a movie star (and also helps with awards consideration - you *want* Steven Spielberg to watch your movie).

In the 35mm era this was easy to keep under control - almost by definition the potential audience was small and exclusive - the patron needed to have a film projector, the prints had to be physically delivered, and a union projectionist was required to run the show.

Once the digital era dawned, the number of people requesting "prints" started to increase, because of the lower barrier to entry. The studios still kept the distribution list quite small, but several people and companies have been looking at ways to monetize what had always been just a marketing expense. You have Prima Cinema with their $500-a-pop day-and-date releases with a digital file (but alas not much studio support). I think there are at least two companies trying to negotiate day-and-date rentals at high prices for the billionaire set (so basically the same thing as the courtesy prints, but extended to rich people willing to pay rather than the merely well-connected). I've also heard Prime Cinema themselves are going to move away from their proprietary file format and just use the DCPs. And now this company.

I think $50 is too low a price to make this palatable to exhibitors, and I also don't see any way to fairly divvy up that exhibition slice amongst all the interested exhibition parties.
 
Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-12-2016, 04:05 PM:
 
I don't have a problem with a tiny cottage industry that delivers day and date movies or pre-release movies to important movie industry insiders. Such people will probably have the resources to have their own pro-level d-cinema screening room and be able to play back encrypted DCP files. There's not a big profit motive in that activity. It has more to do about maintaining professional communication and relationships within the movie industry.

This "Screening Room" concept is not that kind of thing. It's clearly has a mass market business model. The concept tries to appeal to the bean counter set in the same way past day and date schemes have done. It mainly has everything to do about gaming positive cash flow numbers. Make the movie recoup its monetary investment ASAP.

Some studio executives and other movie industry people think the theatrical release platform is just a costly waste of time. For every week the movie is stuck playing in theaters it equals another week the studio will have to pay interest on all the money it borrowed to produce and market that movie. They think the real money is made on home video and the theatrical release delays the movie in getting to that point.

I wonder if these same guys have been monitoring what has happened with the home video market in the past few years. The situation is not all that great. Low cost streaming services like Netflix, Hulu and Amazon Prime are more popular than ever. Residential Internet connections have been improving. Quite a few urban & suburban customers have Internet connections faster than 25Mb/s. That's fast enough for movie streaming to get into Blu-ray quality levels. The on-demand market is improving enough to sour people on owning movies. Who needs all those disc containers hogging shelf space when all it takes is a click of a button to watch the movie in Blu-ray quality for next to nothing?

Race to the bottom economics pricing of movie streaming services and a pretty short theatrical window would both seriously damage the prospects of the $50 per movie Screening Room service. 50 bucks is 50 bucks. That's not cheap. I personally have no problem at all waiting 3 or 4 months to watch a movie for cheap on my TV screen versus paying 50 bucks to see it sooner.
 
Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 03-12-2016, 04:43 PM:
 
I'm quite certain most studio execs know that the exhibition industry still is a fundamental part of their revenue model. It's not like they can turn a blind eye on their financial statements. Also, the fact that, besides some misguided experiments, there still aren't day and date releases of feature releases for plebs, could also be seen as an implicit proof.

But it's not like there are some parties with different agendas that keep on trying to convince them otherwise.

Only if e.g. Netflix would produce a $100M+ feature film, release it as a streaming only affair and still make a profit on this adventure, the Genie would be out of the bottle.

But for now, I don't see them taking that risk, probably also because they know it wouldn't fly.
 
Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-12-2016, 08:00 PM:
 
Netflix and other streaming companies aren't interested in making their own conventional 2-hour Hollywood style movies. That's not their strong suit. The real action is in making adult oriented TV series like House of Cards. They do things in those series that no movie studio can do regardless of budget.

Greed is the motivating factor in these day and date schemes like Screening Room. Every day trader dreams of being part of the next big Internet streaming thing, tech whatever or just a huge IPO deal. They don't care at all about the consequences, such as laying waste to certain industries. They just want lots and lots of money.

Sean Parker was part of Napster and piggy-backed onto Facebook. Now he's looking at the movie industry as a source of another fast buck. I don't think he cares about the potential of putting movie theaters out of business and then the movie industry right along with it. Who uses Napster anymore? Does Sean Parker shed any tears over that? Deal makers like that wouldn't care if the movie industry became a thing of the past either.
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-12-2016, 11:55 PM:
 
quote: Marcel Birgelen
I'm quite certain most studio execs know that the exhibition industry still is a fundamental part of their revenue model.
Oh, they know it all right. They just HATE IT. That's why they keep trying to figure ways to get around it.
 
Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 03-13-2016, 03:21 PM:
 
The Hobbit-Meister weighs in (and we know he nailed it with HFR):
quote:
Sean Parker and Prem Akkaraju- backed startup offers day-and-date releases in the home for $50

Peter Jackson said he is backing Screening Room, the controversial start-up that wants to deliver new releases to the home while they are still in theaters, because it captures an audience that does not go to the cinema.

“Screening Room will expand the audience for a movie – not shift it from cinema to living room,” Jackson said in a statement.

Jackson isn’t the only big name backing the venture. He is joined as a shareholder by Steven Spielberg, Ron Howard, Brian Grazer, and J.J. Abrams.

Screening Room, the brainchild of entrepreneurs Sean Parker and Prem Akkaraju, offers movies for $50 at the same time as they open in theaters. It plans to charge $150 for access to the anti-piracy equipped set-top box that transmits the films and will give customers 48 hours to watch the movies. The hope is to capture middle-aged audiences whose family responsibilities prevent them from routinely going to the theater.

After Variety broke the news of Jackson’s involvement, some questioned whether he was back-tracking on his earlier support for theatrical release windows. In 2011, Jackson was among more than 20 directors who signed a letter decrying a deal that several major studios made with DirecTV to rent several releases eight weeks after they landed in theaters. Other signatories included Michael Bay, Kathryn Bigelow, James Cameron, and Guillermo del Toro.

But in a statement to Variety, Jackson explained that he believed that the DirecTV deal would imperil the theatrical business, while Screening Room will grow overall revenues for the industry.

Here is his full statement:

I had concerns about “DirecTV” in 2011, because it was a concept that I believe would have led to the cannibalization of theatrical revenues, to the ultimate detriment of the movie business.

Screening Room, however, is very carefully designed to capture an audience that does not currently go to the cinema.

That is a critical point of difference with the DirecTV approach – and along with Screening Room’s robust anti-piracy strategy, is exactly why Screening Room has my support.

Screening Room will expand the audience for a movie – not shift it from cinema to living room. It does not play off studio against theater owner. Instead it respects both, and is structured to support the long term health of both exhibitors and distributors – resulting in greater sustainability for the wider film industry itself.

Variety

I'd like to see more evidence for that last paragraph.
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-13-2016, 04:29 PM:
 
I also get a kick out of the promise that "the theater owners" will share in the revenues from this project at about $20 of the $50 per rental. Translated to English, that says "we'll pay AMC or Regal or other big chains but no independents will share in that revenue."
 
Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 03-13-2016, 09:46 PM:
 
And in other news, Amazon Studios announces their release strategy will now feature a 90-day window for theatrical release prior to Amazon Prime's streaming release.

Back to the day-and-date discussion already in progress...
 
Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-14-2016, 12:44 AM:
 
quote: Variety article
Screening Room, the brainchild of entrepreneurs Sean Parker and Prem Akkaraju, offers movies for $50 at the same time as they open in theaters. It plans to charge $150 for access to the anti-piracy equipped set-top box that transmits the films and will give customers 48 hours to watch the movies. The hope is to capture middle-aged audiences whose family responsibilities prevent them from routinely going to the theater.
I'm wondering where these guys got their market research for this bullshit.

First of all, younger people in their 20's and 30's tend to be burdened with "family responsibilities" more often than middle aged people. Usually when parents are in their 40's or 50's the kids have long since grown out of diapers. They're often heading out of high school, on to college, etc.

If the movie studios really want to get "empty nest" customers back into movie theaters they probably should start trying to make more movies that appeal to that age group. Not everyone likes action spectacles made for young males who like to indulge their inner man-child psyche.

I've talked with a lot of people over the years who don't visit movie theaters anymore. Some of these people are friends, coworkers, etc. Fundamentally they just don't see much value in paying a lot of money to see a movie. Price is the main reason why they don't go to theaters. Very few movies have must-see appeal to them either. They have no problem waiting until a movie arrives on Netflix, HBO or even basic cable where its content is sanitized and broken up with dozens of commercial breaks. Getting these people to pay $150 for a set top box and $50 a pop to watch a movie just isn't going to fly. My own "research" isn't scientific. But I think my own guessing might turn out to be very accurate.
 
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-14-2016, 06:44 AM:
 
Lets see...$50 to watch a movie in the home (plus start up costs for the equipment of $150 or so)...hmmm.

What does it cost to go to a typical cinema, particularly the ones putting in these new comfy chairs and such? For just a mere couple to drive to a theatre buy a couple of tickets and get some minimal concessions (popcorn/soda)...you are going to hit and probably exceed that $50. How is this NOT pitting commercial cinemas against home cinemas?

And if that is true, this does NOT expand the market but shift it. Furthermore, it likely reduces revenues since we don't know how many eyes are watching it in the home. If it is a family of 4, then it is absolutely a "deal" to stay at home.

The article makes it sound like they are finding a lost market but in fact it is a market already being captured. The convenience market that does not go out for whatever reason (cost, time, interest...etc.) STILL has access to movies just not on day-and-date releases. You can watch Star Wars VII and all of the Peter Jackson movies right now in your home without having to drive to a theatre or purchase a piece of plastic and shove it into a player. That market is already served (too well, in my opinion...I want release windows back to over a year and longer based on boxoffice to ensure sub run cinemas have a crack at the movie). Once a movie hits the home, thats it, except for a very small revival market.

Any exhibitor that gets "on board" with this is a fool with suicidal tendencies. Studios still don't get (except for maybe Disney) that movies have a longer shelf life than the initial theatrical release and there is no need to rush them into the merky world of home cinema where they lose their value nearly instantly.
 
Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 03-14-2016, 02:47 PM:
 
I think the key phrase is:

"because it captures an audience that does not go to the cinema."

What's the latest research on how many times per month/year that the average person goes to a movie theater?
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-14-2016, 03:08 PM:
 
quote: Scott Jentsch
What's the latest research on how many times per month/year that the average person goes to a movie theater?
Well the US has a population of about 320 million. According to this website which gets its data from the MPAA, there were 1,340,918,470 tickets sold last year, so doing the math, it averages out to 4.19 cinema visits per US citizen per year.

I have a guy here who works with me at my day job. He is a single dad with 3 kids. He does not go out to the theater, as a rule. I asked him, if you had a chance to watch a brand new movie the same day it gets to the theaters, but it would cost $50 and you have only 48 hours to watch it, would you be on board with that? He said "No. Too expensive."

Thanks to Netflix and Redbox, people value movies at about a buck or less now. Pretty sad for a product that can cost $200 million or more to produce.
 
Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 03-16-2016, 05:20 AM:
 
quote: Mike Blakesley
Oh, they know it all right. They just HATE IT. That's why they keep trying to figure ways to get around it.
Yeah, I'm also looking for a get-rich-quick-scheme which doesn't involve customers or potential jail time. [Wink]

quote: Paul Mayer
And in other news, Amazon Studios announces their release strategy will now feature a 90-day window for theatrical release prior to Amazon Prime's streaming release.

Back to the day-and-date discussion already in progress..

Well, I think this hits the core of this whole discussion, doesn't it? Apparently, Amazon, the poster child of the "I want it now" mentality, figured out they're getting more bang for the buck if they release their movies exclusively in proper cinemas first...

Besides the whole argument of cannibalizing their own market, another argument probably has been overlooked in this discussion and that's piracy.

While they might claim to use some super-strong encryption, none of those schemes has ever survived the test of time and scale. The reason why DCPs continue to be reasonable safe, is because they've effectively eliminated the scale factor. DCP releases are rather limited and nobody in his or her right mind is going to offer their expensive equipment for some reverse engineering for shady purposes.

But at about $150 per box, this argument no longer holds and even if they managed to create the perfectly safe box, nobody is going to stop you to record the content otherwise, using a HDMI capture device and an HDCP stripper or maybe even using one of the remaining analog loopholes, ultimately nothing will stop you putting a camera at your screen at home...

So, the whole super-encryption argument they bring forward is moot. If Hollywood wants their all their movies all over the Internet in HD quality day and date, then just follow on with this plan...

All in all, I only see further devaluation of the very product Hollywood is producing in this approach.
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-16-2016, 11:42 AM:
 
Just doing some quick math, I figure a studio would realize maybe a quarter to half of the revenue from a family (with a few friends) watching a new movie via "The Screening Room" as it would from a movie theater. I based this on my own ticket prices, figuring that "the Theater Owners" would get $20 of the $50 fee, and the studio would get 75% of the remaining $30. Based on our prices, the studio would get about half as much from TSR as from us; with a city theater's higher prices, the studio would get at least three or four times as much money from a cinema as from TSR.

Of course their argument is going to be "they capture the audience that doesn't go to the movies anyway."
 
Posted by David Buckley (Member # 2600) on 03-16-2016, 10:15 PM:
 
quote: Mike Blakesley
Of course their argument is going to be "they capture the audience that doesn't go to the movies anyway."
That's it though, isn't it. Either they are right, in which case the studios increase their income and exhibition keeps (or grows?) it's audience, or they are wrong, and in which case the golden goose is, not to put too fine a point on it, fucked.

That is one really big gamble, and a gamble with a really large number of venues, companies and employees. A gamble with a bit of an upside, and one hell of a downside.
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-16-2016, 11:11 PM:
 
What concerns me is, they'll do it with some blockbustery movie, which will still do well, and the TSR numbers will be small. So they'll say "See?! The theatrical still did fine! We made a little more money!" blah blah. Then they'll have their foot in the door and it's only a matter of time till the price starts dropping, or whatever.

We just had the highest grossing year in history and ticket sales are up over the previous few years. Why the #$%# do they want to "fix" what's not broken?
 
Posted by David Buckley (Member # 2600) on 03-17-2016, 05:38 AM:
 
quote: Mike Blakesley
Why the #$%# do they want to "fix" what's not broken?
Greed. Or stupidity. Or, maybe the full house: Both.
 
Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 03-17-2016, 09:15 AM:
 
> it's only a matter of time till the price starts dropping

When you consider the savings on not buying concessions, $50 is not all that high even for families with only few children.
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-17-2016, 11:59 AM:
 
I know, but remember: The perceived value of movies "in the home" is only about a buck or two. If things get to the point where they are needing to goose those home numbers after the initial novelty wears off, they would probably drop the price. The first part to drop would be the share that "the theater owners" get, would be my guess.
 
Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-17-2016, 12:30 PM:
 
$50 is still a pretty good chunk of money. It's not hard for me to spend that much taking my girlfriend to the movies, especially if we see the movie in a premium priced auditorium. A lot of money can be saved by avoiding the concession stand, but if Lie-MAX is involved you're still going to be out $30-$35 on a pair of tickets alone. It would be hard not to spend over $50 taking a family of four to the movies.

In that respect, I might be able to see a service like Screening Room attracting customers who have 2 or more kids, multiple room mates or whatever circumstance has 4 or more people living under the same roof. It takes a group of people for the dollar savings to kick in, just like ordering a live PPV event. Otherwise the service is only going to appeal to douchey isolationists who don't want to soil themselves by watching a movie with other people in a theater.

quote: Mike Blakesley
We just had the highest grossing year in history and ticket sales are up over the previous few years. Why the #$%# do they want to "fix" what's not broken?
Bean Counter Blindness.

Investors want only one thing: MORE. The corporate bean counters are under incredible pressure to bring in more revenue, more profit, more, more, more even when the fact is the paying movie-going audience is only so big. Another inarguable fact: most movie goers are always on the lookout for the cheapest way to see a movie.

Most people would gladly choose watching a brand new movie release at home on their TV set if the movie was available at the same time it debuted in theaters. It's all about money. They only go to the theater to see the new must-see movie because that's the only option. It's either that or wait for the video release, which many are more than willing to do. Some people just aren't willing to pay much of anything to see a given movie, if they bother to watch it at all.
 
Posted by David Buckley (Member # 2600) on 03-17-2016, 09:44 PM:
 
quote: Mike Blakesley
The perceived value of movies "in the home" is only about a buck or two.
This has, as one would expect, rattled around a bit on Reddit, and the biggest whine isn't about the $50 movie charge, which many folks, especially those with families, find reasonable, as long as you can pause the movie(!!!!), but the $150 for the set top box, mainly because everyone already has a flotilla of set top boxes.

My guess is that there will be a unique per-box watermark to track piracy, and that can't be done with existing set-top boxes.
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-25-2016, 10:56 PM:
 
Here's an article in favor of the Screening Room from a Hollywood idiot, published in Variety of all places.

quote:
Hollywood v Sean Parker: The Case for Home Movie Services

by Kristopher Tapley

In the wake of the news that entrepreneur Sean Parker and former SFX Entertainment executive Prem Akkaraju have teamed up to launch Screening Room, a startup that offers new film releases in the home for $50, a number of major filmmakers have spoken out against the proposal, which was first reported by Variety.

Filmmakers including James Cameron, Christopher Nolan, Roland Emmerich and M. Night Shyamalan have lined up against the plan, while Screening Room’s all-star lineup of backers includes Steven Spielberg, J.J. Abrams, Peter Jackson, Martin Scorsese and Ron Howard.

But as I read the various critiques, offered via statements and tweets (it’s unclear if detractors have heard Parker and Akkaraju’s pitch themselves), I kept getting hung up on one particular assertion. “Jim [Cameron] and I are committed to the sanctity of the in-theater experience,” producer Jon Landau said. “The movie-going experience is something to fight for,” M. Night Shyamalan added.

Filmmakers need to put aside lofty rhetoric about the value of the theater-going experience and realize that modern audiences are already consuming film and TV in different ways.

Just ask Cary Fukunaga, Brad Pitt or Will Smith, all of whom are making movies — big and small — with Netflix.

“What I’ve learned is that most people, even my friends, if they have busy lives — they’re just going to watch on whatever platform is available to them,” said Fukunaga in an interview with Variety last year. “It’s just the reality of now, in terms of filmmaking.”

And have filmmakers like Cameron or Nolan actually been to the local multiplex lately, or is the “sanctity” reserved for their own private screening rooms?

The choral crunching of the loudest food known to man, the vague smell of feet, the entitlement of those whipping out their cell phones — this is not a sacred environment. For most, going to the movies isn’t a time of worship like it is for those in or dedicated to the film industry. It’s an escape. And unless you’re bent on changing human behavior, that isn’t likely to change.

Some companies — like the Arclight and Drafthouse theater chains — are committed to an ideal experience, booting audience members who text during the movie, preventing entry once the film begins, etc. But for as many years as those practices have been in place, they have remained premium realities rather than standardized ones.

Larger companies have implemented more substantial premium experiences, but they remain notably limited. For example, the aim with AMC Theatres’ recent partnership with Dolby Laboratories — “Dolby Cinema at AMC Prime,” which marries the comfort of the theater chain’s already-exclusive plush seating auditoriums with Dolby’s dual laser projection and state-of-the-art sound technology — is to have roughly 100 such venues up and running by 2024. Hardly wide-ranging, and by that time, things like Screening Room may have already changed the game anyway. (It’s worth noting that AMC has signed a letter of intent to partner with Screening Room.)

Nolan, who echoed Landau and Cameron’s joint thoughts on the service without detailing his own, has spoken about the less-than-ideal theater-going experience in the past. “For some reason, it has become acceptable to say we are providing this empty room with a TV in it,” he said at the BFI London Film Festival in October. “We’re not putting on a show. That has to change, and if that experience for the audience is not valued, people will stop going.”

He went on to decry a growing trend among repertory theaters of projecting Blu-rays. “Exhibitors need to put their best foot forward and have standards,” he said. “No cinema should be showing a consumer grade format to an audience.”

But what incentive do theaters really have to provide an ideal viewing experience? It’s no secret that exhibitors are as focused on the popcorn and candy business as the movie business. Their money is made at the concession stand, not in the brutal percentage game of box office receipts. I remember my days working in a theater where management refused to replace projector bulbs running at 40% illumination because of the expense and the screens were stained from God knows what.

The whole brick-and-mortar paradigm is obviously crumbling, judging by the fate of record and book stores. So why should movie theaters be any different, particularly if there isn’t much interest in “putting on a show,” as Nolan said? And even if there was interest, there’s not a lot to bolster confidence. Quentin Tarantino made his best pitch for offering audiences a unique theatrical experience with his “Hateful Eight” roadshow in December, projected in 70mm at 100 venues nationwide, many of them retrofitted with new projectors. The film brought in only $6.6 million during that limited engagement and distributor The Weinstein Co. seemed eager to get it out into the multiplex marketplace, pulling the wide release up a week.

So while I’m sure there’s a fair rebuttal to Screening Room, I don’t think “the sanctity of the in-theater experience” is it. That’s not to say there aren’t inherent concerns, though.

For instance, we still don’t have details on the service’s “robust anti-piracy strategy,” as Jackson put it in his statement. That was a sticking point for the Art House Convergence, a specialty cinema org representing 600 theaters that issued a statement in opposition to Screening Room. My question is, what’s to stop someone from Periscoping an entire film? That proved to be a problem for HBO and Showtime during last May’s Mayweather-Pacquiao boxing match, as countless viewers simply used their smartphones to re-transmit the fight.

Also, will there be a premium or ban on commercial venues? For the MayPac fight, bars paid anywhere between $6,500 and $15,500, depending on capacity (compared to the $89.95 consumer rate). Will a venue simply be able to purchase one of these set-top boxes for $150 and exhibit the latest release every weekend to its clientele?

I imagine a number of the big-time backers that Parker and Akkaraju have assembled have wanted to embrace this inevitable shift for some time. The difference now, given that the Screening Room plan will send as much as 40% of the $50 fee to exhibitors, is that they’ve been presented with an option that doesn’t cut theatrical out of the equation. The proposed service “does not play off studio against theater owner … it respects both,” Jackson said. “Screening Room was the only solution that supports all stakeholders in the industry,” added Ron Howard and producing partner Brian Grazer.

And perhaps some of the ancillary business concerns — particularly the video and on-demand revenue — would be rendered less relevant if some first-time audiences were paying $50, rather than $5, to see a new movie like “Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice.”

More importantly, growing the business by expanding the audience is a stated goal. Movie-going has been flat in recent years, with ticket sales hitting a 20-year low in 2014. Right now, only 11% of Americans and Canadians frequent the cinema, per a report from the Motion Picture Assn. of America, and 32% of the entire U.S. and Canadian population doesn’t go at all. Meanwhile, the theatrical window has continued to collapse. Two years ago, DreamWorks Animation CEO Jeffrey Katzenberg predicted that within a decade, films would be available on a pay-per-screen-size model as few as 17 days after their theatrical opening.

The National Assn. of Theater Owners copped to all of this turbulence in its official response to the Screening Room news. “More sophisticated window modeling may be needed for the growing success of a modern movie industry,” the org said, adding for good measure that “those models should be developed by distributors and exhibitors in company-to-company discussions, not by a third party.”

Whoever develops the model, the time has come. And next month’s CinemaCon — an annual exhibition confab hosted by NATO — will likely mark the dawn of an epic showdown in Hollywood.

Variety article
 
Posted by Buck Wilson (Member # 5885) on 03-26-2016, 12:21 AM:
 
quote:
“Exhibitors need to put their best foot forward and have standards,” he said. “No cinema should be showing a consumer grade format to an audience.”
*cough* 2k digital *cough*
 
Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-26-2016, 01:09 AM:
 
Observations about this article:

1. The writer completely fails to even acknowledge the fact commercial movie theaters are literally the bedrock supporting the movie industry. If there are no movie theaters there is no movie industry. Simple as that. The situation is honestly a pretty fragile one. Major theater chains are operating on not so wide profit margins. With all the mergers and leveraged buy outs increasing their debt loads it makes the chains more vulnerable to down-turns in audience numbers. The down-turns can happen via lack of hit movies. It can also happen if audiences have an attractive alternative to watching the movie in a theater.

2. I'm baffled by the idea guys like Steven Spielberg and Martin Scorsese would supposedly be in favor of something like this Screening Room scheme.

3. The writer mentions high end premium concepts like Dolby Cinema, complaining such systems are installed in a very limited number of theaters. Has this guy checked out just how much it costs to install a full blown Dolby Cinema system or IMAX with Laser? We're talking between $1 million and $2 million per screen. And that's in an EXISTING theater! Does he even know how much it costs to install an "ordinary" digital projection system with "ordinary" 5.1 surround sound? What about all the other operational costs in a movie theater? Does he think all that stuff is free? He almost hints at the issue when mentioning the old story about bad movie theaters running their lamps at dim levels to save money. But he failed to realize that's something you can't (or shouldn't) be doing with a very costly d-cinema setup. On the other hand, would there be any required presentation standards for home viewers to watch movies via the Screening Room service? How will an esteemed filmmaker backing this service feel about his product only being watched on an ordinary TV set with sound from ordinary, tinny TV speakers?

4. The writers picks on The Hateful Eight release and 70mm film as a premise of saying audiences don't appreciate a good film presentation. He failed to notice QT's own mistake of shooting an ultra-wide, large format movie mostly in a fucking dark log cabin and with a whole shit load of talking. He also failed to notice the damned Star Wars sequel hogging nearly all the best available screens where 70mm would have performed better. QT and Weinstein should have waited until about late March or April to release the movie at the very least.

5. This 40%-50% cut Screening Room "promises" to exhibitors, just how exactly would that be divided? I smell some bullshit wafting off that. The big boys (AMC, Regal, Cinemark) would probably get a taste. I'd be willing to bet smaller chains would be cut out completely. Even if the big chains got some revenue from this distribution model it definitely would not be enough to offset per person ticket sales losses. A big group of people could have a movie watching party, making that $50 per movie fee a cheap bargain. All those people in that group each would have had to pay a first run theater ticket price otherwise.

6. The writer seems to scoff at AMC's modest 100 screen plan for Dolby Cinema @ AMC Prime, saying that Screening Room probably will have changed the game by then. Uh, yeah, if the Screening Room concept and others like it establish a good enough foothold they will "change the game." They will change the game by eliminating it (the movie industry) completely. We'll just have broadcast TV and cable after the fuck-tards "change the game." Even after that game is changed, the de-evolution of TV will continue to devolve. Cable TV relies a good bit on re-broadcasting movies. The electronics industry will take it up the ass too. Who in their right mind will want to buy a huge OLED TV screen or surround sound system if the only new content they get to watch is TV series, TV movies and Fox News™. That stuff can be watched on a computer monitor or a freaking phone.

7. The only valid point the writer made in his article is certain bad practices of movie theater chains. Showing Blu-ray discs of repertory movies is just plain bad. But that's more the fault of the movie studios and not the movie theater chains. The studios are the ones supplying the content and quality of that content. That one is all on them, not the theaters. However, the movie theaters are on the hook for getting control of their auditoriums. Most of the big chain theaters move customers through the complex like cattle moving through a feed lot. Commercial theaters absolutely have to get tough with maintaining a proper movie going environment. Mobile phone use and other distractions or disruptions should not be tolerated at all. The writer kind of scoffs at the "sanctity" of the movie-going experience. Well, that "sanctity" is something that's really only earned by good movie theaters. If the movie theater is going to treat its operation no better than a fast food chain then it deserves to fall into oblivion.
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-26-2016, 09:13 PM:
 
In addition to all of Bobby's points (which, Bobby, you should distill into a letter-to-the-editor and send it to Variety), here are some things about that article that make my blood boil:

1. Like many articles of this type, he trots out the same old tired list of things that sometimes happen in theaters and infers that the theatrical moviegoing experience is terrible, 100% of the time. Things like sticky floors, everybody using their cell, everybody talking, people getting shot at, etc etc are the "norm" rather than the "exception" according to him. Well, that's NOT true. What these writers are really saying is, "I don't like going out to the movies so *I* should be able to stream them at home." Personal self-interest trumps everything to these guys.

2. He assumes that day-and-date is inevitable, just because people want that. Forget about whether it's good for the industry or not. It's just gotta happen! People want day and date, sure -- but they don't want to spend a lot of money for it. They want to spend a couple of bucks, or have new movies on their Netflix queue, just like they spend for 3-month-old movies now.

3. He makes a big deal out of the fact that only 11% of the people in this country ever go out to the movies. Well....I would say that far less people than that ever go out to live concerts. Certainly, the average concertgoer goes less frequently than the average moviegoer goes to the movies. The majority of people in this country don't USUALLY go out to dinner. In other words, most people not going to the movies is NO BIG DEAL. When it comes to recreational stuff, there's not much stuff that MOST people do. Hell, MOST people don't even watch the average hit TV show.

What really pisses me off the most about this whole thing is the nice language NATO uses when they respond to these dumb ideas. Instead of being all nice, they should say "Look, studios: You have already decimated the theater industry by shrinking the video window to 90 days. If you hadn't done that, and if you would crack down on screener piracy, we'd probably still have 30 or 40% of the people in the country going to the movies, instead of 11%. Now, even with the 11%, we've just given you a record-breaking year. So will you please, for the love of God, STOP SCREWING with the window, or YOU WILL DESTROY the movie industry completely. Do you understand that? YOU ARE GOING TO RUIN YOUR OWN BUSINESS, AND OURS."
 
Posted by Manny Montes (Member # 5639) on 03-27-2016, 12:37 PM:
 
I'm honestly more curious as to why AMC's foreign overlords are so keen to jumping on any bandwagon to destroy the cinema experience.
 
Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-27-2016, 01:26 PM:
 
It's all about giving more value to shareholders.

Honestly, that's the prime motivation at the core of this short-sighted idiocy. If you're an executive at a movie studio, a global media company or even a start-up like Screening Room, making a bunch of money directly in the stock market is the main goal. If the company's stock price jumps a few points you, as the executive, will get paid big fat freaking bonuses from the shareholders' board of directors. Maybe you'll get a huge salary increase. And, of course, there will be extra padding put into that golden parachute when the time comes for you to leave the company in a few short years. It doesn't matter if you're fired, you sell out or what ever. Executives always have some kind of exit strategy.

As for doing things that are "good for the industry," not too many of these guys are thinking about the long term health of movie studios and commercial movie theaters. I think they just want to make all the money they can in the shortest amount of time possible. Any destructive consequences that develop years later are of little interest to them. They'll let some other executive worry about that when the time comes. Sounds a little similar to our goofed up political process here.
 
Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 03-27-2016, 02:17 PM:
 
Do you actually mean...

Cutting open the goose to get a golden egg sooner has some negative consequences?

Really

1
 
Posted by James Wyrembelski (Member # 9037) on 03-27-2016, 07:19 PM:
 
I like a lot of what Mike says

I dont understand the high negativity placed on theaters. Its honestly rare I ever have had an issue with the whole "sticky floors, texters, etc." mantra constantly used. 95% of the time everyone in the auditorium is quiet and respectful.

And only 11% go out to the movies? So? How many go bowling, golfing, casinos, concerts, plays, and all the other forms of entertainment more than a few times a year?

Yes, there are a select group of people that prop up the industry...i see that stat commonly used. same could be said about other industries as well. Some never go see a movie....me....I've went maybe about 20 times in the last year alone.

Might be going off topic or on a rant here but just let me go...heh...

I like to compare bowling alleys for some reason. Roughly 18% of the population have bowled at least once per year. A bit better than theaters but by no means a large chunk. Less than 1% are league players (which most likely are the patrons propping them up)

As an example Ive heard so many use bowling alleys as an example comparable to theaters (among other industries) as a dying industry because only an X amount of people bowl or only bowling alleys in largely populated areas seem to have enough to succeed. Yet, in our small town of 1200 people you can find that ALL 16 lanes are full with league players Thursday-Sunday from October-April.....Yes, the summer months are slow...but so is every other business during their "off season"....and yes...it IS the leagues that mostly prop the business up.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2015/05/10/bowling-final-frames-roll/27070351/

"It may be it is part of a broader decline in social engagement," said Wayne State University assistant sociology professor David Merolla. "But people's social tastes change, too. It's also possible bowling isn't what people do anymore."

Hansell, who has been in the bowling business since the 1960s, takes the view that there still are more frames to play.

While league bowling isn't what it once was, in part because folks don't have the time to commit to it, he said, it's still popular, with more than 67 million people bowling at least once last year."

If you replaced "bowling alley" with theater in the above article it sounds all too alike...which is why I use it as an example.

It just feels like what it comes down to sometimes (more with theaters simply due to the type of product) is that we should just skip this step and go straight to in home delivery....lets just stream movies and bowl on the Wii...gamble online...shop online.... and only leave to go to work....why EVER leave the house...its not as if there's an actual world out there you know? So what if the theater industry is pulling in record numbers and is a 12 billion dollar industry....or why would bowling alleys attempt to keep their 5 billion dollar industry alive? We wouldn't miss the 4,000 businesses or the almost 200K jobs between the two. Huh...makes no sense to me what so ever.
 
Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 03-28-2016, 11:39 AM:
 
There are big difference between movie theatres and bowling alleys.

First, If you want to bowl, you need to go out. If you want to watch a motion picture, you have lots of options other than a theatre.

Second, bowling alleys are not paying 50% to 95% of their revenue to their equipment supplier, forever, for the privilege of renting the alleys, scoreboards, and pin resetting machines. Theatres are paying 50% to 95% for the privilege of renting the movie(s) they are showing.

Third, the equipment suppliers for bowling alleys are not spending their days trying to undercut commercial venues with various bowl at home schemes.
 
Posted by James Wyrembelski (Member # 9037) on 03-28-2016, 12:38 PM:
 
Yep, you're correct

My beef is basically that ALL brick and mortar businesses are facing assault. What's the common denominator here? Social connection and value.

Read the comments under that article....sound familiar?? "I havent been in one since the 90's" "the concessions are horrible and over priced" "Run down and smelly"

No one wants to go out like they used to. Some don't have time. And the common complaint? Its too expensive. They no longer see value when they can be ENTERTAINED at home for a fraction of the cost. yes, the two are separate in product, but they are both entertainment venues.

Even that article point to the fact that our social connections are drastically changing. In my opinion we're eroding. Why go out when everything at home is half the cost and you can just talk to each other via the internet? Thus having an impact on ALL of these industries.
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-28-2016, 02:32 PM:
 
Well - comments under articles like that are not exactly scientific. Besides, we already know that only 11% of people go to movies. Lots of those people are under 18 or over 50 and thus probably don't do a lot of commenting on websites.

But I agree with the whole "eroding" concept. Around here, young people used to cruise around town for fun. They don't do that anymore -- in the 70s, the main drag would be teeming with vehicles every night until midnight, later on weekends. Now, even on a Saturday at 9:30pm you could throw a dead cat down the street and not have much of a chance of hitting anything. People are sitting home staring at screens.
 
Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 03-28-2016, 06:07 PM:
 
quote: Bobby Henderson
Executives always have some kind of exit strategy.
100% spot on. This is the biggest problem with corporate America. Companies are not built for the long term anymore. The entire goal going in is to plan an exit strategy.

I can guarantee you that the goal of Screening Room is to show growth and get bought out by Netflix or some other larger company.

The only long term companies formed are ones that get there almost by accident like Google and Facebook.

Also, a memo to the studios. People don't want fast access to movies on other platforms, they want CHEAP access to movies on other platforms. When some millennial says they want to see Batman vs. Superman on their phone, they mean they want to pay $1.99 (or better yet, nothing) to watch it. They don't want to pay a premium price for instant gratification.
 
Posted by James Wyrembelski (Member # 9037) on 03-31-2016, 06:40 PM:
 
Most certainly Mike. Same thing in this town. Even just within the last decade town has changed SO much as far as night life. Even just 10 years ago in this town at 2pm on a weekday you couldn't even move it was so busy and kept on going until 11 at night. I know the economic downturn has hampered a lot of that. Especially since Michigan was the ONLY state in the union that had negative census data. But, its been vastly improving each year. I hope the trend continues.

I'd like to clarify too that my postings also largely are trying to point out that it seems as if there is a glaring issue with articles and opinion on the internet that are completely trying to immediately invalidate any "old" ways or "old" businesses that are still doing quite well in an era where the entertainment pie has gotten exponentially larger and more ferociously competitive.
 
Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 03-31-2016, 08:45 PM:
 
Got on the tail end of this, but still have to add:

Goes all back to when television came out where it scared the studios and cinemas to no end.

Thus, visual ways to keep them in the theatre seats and out of the homes were: the Anamorphic processes, VistaVision, Cinerama, then IMAX, and the similar.

Then sound with multi channel and the gadgetry of 3D.

It all worked and worked well.

Sure, let these home based entertainment venues try to take hold, but people still are going to get out of the house, go to their venue of choice, and want to be entertained, where in a way, it's still cheap entertainment compared to other entertainment events.

.. the magic and the trill of it all.
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-31-2016, 11:47 PM:
 
We know there are always going to be people who want to get out of the house. The question that looms above all is.... are there enough of them?

How many people who NOW go to the movies would be "converted" to home viewing by schemes such as this?

When (it's probably no longer smart to say "if") day-and-date ever becomes mainstream, I can see it eventually siphoning off at least half of our business. Not because of anything we are doing wrong; it's just that we won't be able to compete on price, which is going to be the big driving factor, with convenience a close second. And it won't happen right away; it'll be slow and painful.

How many of us can live with half or less of the business we have now? I don't think we could here.
 
Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 04-04-2016, 05:22 PM:
 
Movie theaters aren't dead yet. They survived TV, the video cassette, the DVD and they will also survive instant-streaming.

This particular scheme, if it will ever get off the ground, will fail miserably. First off all, they will never sign up all the large studios. They might convince a few semi-independents, but the door to the real beef will remain shut.

Maybe the studios hate the exhibition industry, ever since the end of the studio system, but they're not going to slaughter the goose with the golden eggs for an early Thanksgiving. If even Amazon chooses to release their productions to theaters first, I'm pretty sure the exhibition industry is not dead just yet.
 
Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 04-05-2016, 10:26 AM:
 
We know there are always going to be people who want to get out of the house. The question is, what do they want to do when they get out?

I have my doubts as to whether or not they want to go out to see something they can see at home. That said, I don't think the exhibition industry is doomed, but in major markets there are far too many screens, and in smaller markets too many marginally profitable locations.

These current day and date at home schemes are not currently viable enough to make a significant dent in exhibition, but I suspect that day is coming.
 
Posted by Christopher Lani (Member # 7952) on 05-03-2016, 11:56 PM:
 
This may be an attempt to target the Baby Boomers and the perception that they don't like theaters because they are assumed to be filled with loud, cell phone using ruffians.
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-04-2016, 05:43 PM:
 
Here's another article featuring an industry idiot, more outspoken than most, who hasn't got a clue apparently about how his own business works.

Relativity Chief Dana Brunetti on Sean Parker's Screening Room: It Should Go Even Further

"It's controlled too much by the movie theaters," Dana Brunetti, the producer-turned-president of production at Relativity Media, said of the way in which films are released on the latest episode of the 'Awards Chatter' podcast, in which he wholeheartedly endorsed Sean Parker's idea for day-and-date distribution, The Screening Room. "I've been preaching and saying that for years, that we need to go day-and-date."

The thrice Emmy-nominated House of Cards executive producer actually feels The Screening Room model doesn't go far enough: "They're saying $50 and people are going, 'Well, that's too expensive.' I disagree. I think it should be $80 or $100, and if it's a bigger and more in-demand movie, then have it be flexible pricing. The reality of it, though, is it ends up being cheaper for a lot of people — think where you go, you valet your car or park your car, you get popcorn, it's $20, you get a babysitter, you have to be there at 7:15 — just that aspect of it is a pain in the ass for a lot of people. ... I can pause it when I need to get up and take a leak, I can pause it when I want to get up and get a beer, and I can sit on my couch in comfort, I don't have to have a babysitter, I don't have to drive anywhere, I don't have to park and if I want to start it at 8:23, I start it at 8:23 as opposed to having to be somewhere at a given time."

He continued: "It's going to come, and that's why something like Screening Room has a lot of industry players that are involved with it. The people that are involved with it — they can see the forest through the trees, whereas the theaters, they really need to get with it. It's an old model. They can make it beneficial to them, as well. How this industry has been for so long is, 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it.' But you know what? Look at the taxi drivers? They're pissed off and they think Uber is the worst thing in the world, but you and I probably think Uber is the best thing in the world. I go to Vancouver and I think, 'What the hell is wrong with this place?' I don't think the oil industry is happy with Tesla. But guess what? Times change and things are changing and they change for the better. It goes back to, 'Give the people what they want, how they want it and they'll pay for it.'"

In March, the 42-year-old vowed to THR, "If I ran a studio, I would flip [the current dynamic]. You want to show my films? You pay me, and I'm going to take a piece of your concessions." Now, as of late April, he does run a studio, so what's his current gameplan? He says on the podcast, "It's not something that I'm gonna be able to change overnight, but as the opportunities make themselves available I'm definitely going to push that way whenever I can."

Hollywood Reporter article
 
Posted by Ram Melegrito (Member # 8652) on 05-05-2016, 12:46 AM:
 
Good luck then on recovering your $250 million budgets.
 
Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 05-05-2016, 08:03 AM:
 
Didn't Relativity just go bankrupt?
 
Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 05-05-2016, 09:35 AM:
 
> You pay me, and I'm going to take a piece of your concessions.

Didn't Disney try that at one point? I don't think that worked out too well for them, but at least they had other businesses to keep them afloat until they came back to their senses.
 
Posted by Buck Wilson (Member # 5885) on 05-05-2016, 03:55 PM:
 
LOLOL What a dumbass. The industry is obviously filled with jackasses like that pushing and pushing.... why shit is as garbage as it already is
 
Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 05-05-2016, 04:08 PM:
 
quote: Some Hollywood Douche Producer
It's controlled too much by the movie theaters,
No, it's not. It's entirely controlled by the studios you work for.

quote: The Same Guy
The Screening Room model doesn't go far enough: "They're saying $50 and people are going, 'Well, that's too expensive.' I disagree. I think it should be $80 or $100, and if it's a bigger and more in-demand movie, then have it be flexible pricing.
You see, here's the reason why the exhibition industry doesn't have to worry about those guys. It will blow itself apart before any harm has been done if studios would let those boneheads make the decisions for them.

quote: Martin McCaffery
Didn't Relativity just go bankrupt?
They went bankrupt last year, the fault of the movie theaters I guess...

But Hollywood loves fairy tales and recycling, so they decided to screw over a few of their creditors, recycle themselves and un-bankrupt themselves a month or two ago.
 
Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 05-11-2016, 09:45 PM:
 
I did my own survey. At a dinner with people of a wide range of ages and different areas of expertise (only a handful of movie industry types), some middle-agers with their wives and some 20 somethings, I asked if there were a service that allowed you to get first run movies like Captain America - Civil War or the Starwars movie at home on the TV the very same minute it opened in the theatres, would anyone be interested in seeing it at home instead of going to the multiplex. The 20 somethings showed a bit more interest than the others who were mostly just curious. Then I said, to get a first run movie with this service, each movie would cost $50 a pop... would you still be interested? They started laughing amid shouts of "Are you effin kidding me...50 dollares?! NO WAY, etc.

Granted in the moment none seemed to take the time to do the math about how many people they could get to their $50 screening; they were just reacting to the price. It was obvious that $50 a ticket hit them as a much to high price-point for a movie ticket. One woman in her 60s looked at her husband who evidently wasn't exhibiting as negativity about it as she would have liked and she said, "You put $50 on our credit card to see a movie and you will be watching it from outside the house."

Point is, the reaction to a $50 charge for most people...and I am talking about many who are middle to lower-upper class folk who aren't exactly counting their pennies, is a sizable chunk of change; it seems that a $50 price tag as too expensive to shell out for a movie and the reaction was mostly negative. Of course the way they were thinking about it was that it was the equivalent to the price of a single ticket to a movie.

Maybe in the end if they were to figure the economics of it more carefully in terms of the additional costs associated with going to the a theatre verses stay home, they may see that it isn't as expensive as it might seem at first blush. I am only pointing out that I think the cost factor may be a much bigger psychological stumbling block that the proponents think.

While the group was visibly negative about the ticket price, they didn't seem all that concerned about the $150 set-top box. I guess they parallel that with other electronic set-top gear that they need to purchase or rent for service and $150 seemed reasonable, but it was the $50 ticket price that got the big guffaw.

If the studios support this, it way wind up being a limited niche market which may not have the dire consequences for exhibitors that we can all imagine. After all, there was a niche market for Laserdiscs with people willing to shell out $30 for a movie (adjusted for today's inflation, that probably was more like 50 bucks). And that market always remained marginal. Then again, they weren't offering day and date titles on laserdiscs either. Thing is, just cause the technology may work, doesn't mean it will catch the public's fickle magic threshold to make it take off.

And then of course, the first time someone buys a tripod and a high-end digital camera and aims it at his 4K OLED screen and makes a decent copy, one MUCH better than what that guy in a trench coat gets off a screen in the theatre and without the stress of some usher wandering in and calling the FBI and the MPAA...the jig will be up - "The Screening Room service responsible for 6 BILLION DOLLARS in revenue loss do to the piracy of NN blockbuster title." Nice thing about that, the MPAA won't be able to blame the movie theatres!!
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-11-2016, 10:31 PM:
 
quote: Frank Angel
Granted in the moment none seemed to take the time to do the math about how many people they could get to their $50 screening; they were just reacting to the price.
I never thought about that angle... so if a guy (let's call him Bob) thinks he's going to save money for all his friends by having them all over to watch the newest movie, that's real nice for them but Bob still winds up paying the 50 bucks! Plus they all need to plan to go to Bob's house at the same time...gotta hire a babysitter, the whole bit...gee, it's not that different than going out to the movies. Then there would be some asshat who yells out PAUSE IT! I GOTTA TAKE A PISS! at the exact wrong moment, and some idiot would be on his cell phone, and other people would want to be visiting, and there are only so many "good" spots in front of the TV, etc. And everybody's gotta bring their own snacks. Then Bob has to clean up the mess afterward. So I can see where the bloom would fall off that rose pretty fast, especially if Bob is a guy who really wants to watch the new movie without a bunch of distractions.
 
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-11-2016, 11:49 PM:
 
All that security and yet there's not a damn thing stopping people from pointing their videocamera at the screen and uploading it within a couple of hours of it being released from the privacy of their own home.

This is sure to work out nicely for the studios I'm sure.
 
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-12-2016, 06:13 AM:
 
I actually envisioned more of a "movie club" sort of thing where several people in the neighborhood get the service and they take turns playing "host" for movie night (sort of like poker games, bridge games...etc.) You get 3 or 4 families/couples in on it and you really cut your costs way down versus going out to the theatre (especially when you factor food in there).

As for camcorder...are you kidding...direct record it digital. It isn't like HDCP isn't already busted. That said, one would have to think it is watermarked in some manner such that either direct record or camcorder would be tracable to the "entrepenur" .
 
Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 05-12-2016, 11:25 AM:
 
Exactly. The pirates wouldn't take long to figure out how to hack the feed. Then they would have another source for pirated movies featuring digital video and multi-channel digital surround sound. After all, the studios are still providing those screener discs to VIP types who can't soil themselves by watching a movie in a movie theater.
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-12-2016, 12:00 PM:
 
quote: Steve Guttag
I actually envisioned more of a "movie club" sort of thing where several people in the neighborhood get the service and they take turns playing "host" for movie night
Yes but then you still have all the pain-in-the-neck things I listed in my post above. It's still people leaving their house to get together with other people to watch a movie. It's just a different venue -- with the studio making way less money.
 
Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 05-12-2016, 12:35 PM:
 
While the "movie club" idea has some merit, it is a sketchy assumption that various friends are going to kick in the cost of the film rental to watch a movie at another person's home.
 
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-12-2016, 07:44 PM:
 
They don't "kick in" the costs. They take turns being the host. Say...Wednesday night is "movie night" and you take turns at each house...or maybe with less dates like only once a month...whatever the group wants. The more friends that participate, the cheapere it is for everyone.

Or everyone in the "club" dupes the movie and hands the others SD cards with the movie of the week. You no longer need go out and meet up but have again cut your costs to less than going to the movie theatre and the studios make less money...again, a lose-lose for the industry.

I maintain the premise of the whole thing is just plain wrong. This is a market that is already served. Nobody has to go to a movie theatre to see just about any movie. You just have to wait until it is released to home streaming/disc or premium channel. Typically 3-6 months after theatrical release.
 
Posted by Eric Hooper (Member # 1730) on 05-12-2016, 08:49 PM:
 
The people who would be interested in this are already downloading Captain America off of the torrents already.... [Roll Eyes]
 
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 05-12-2016, 10:20 PM:
 
I think the whole idea is silly.

Estimate the cost of a nicely sized flat screen TV at $1,000 to $2,000... the cost of a good home theater sound system at another $500 to $1,000. Add in the cost of your DVD/Blu-Ray player, the cost of this proposed set-top box and any other gadgets you need to make a home theater and the price can easily hit $2,000 or $3,000. If you go all-out, you could top $5,000 or more.

For the price of a good home theater, you could go out to the movie theater fifty or one hundred times!

I'm not saying that a person shouldn't have a nice TV system in their house if they want one but I disagree with the idea that people can "replace" the movie theater experience with a home theater because the expense doesn't pan out.

Unless a person is a super-duper movie buff who has "movie night" every weekend of the year, all that expensive stuff that they buy is basically just going to sit and collect dust most of the time.

I know a guy who is a retired movie producer. He is one of those super-duper movie buffs and he does watch movies almost every week. All he has is a nice flat screen (Vizio, I think) and a basic home theater receiver/speaker system. It's all stuff you can easily get at Best Buy or Walmart. The whole kit-n-kaboodle probably cost less than $2,000. This is probably the only person I know who has ever gotten his money's worth out of a home theater setup.

As far as I am concerned, this is all just empty marketing designed to make money from the unwashed masses who think they are getting something special but really aren't.
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-13-2016, 03:35 PM:
 
After just finishing writing my latest multi-thousand dollar check to a studio for a movie that will be available at Wal-Mart for $15 in 90 days, I wish there was some way to get across to these idiots that the theater industry is not this big bad greedy behemoth that just rakes in money by gouging people for movie tickets.

In other words, exclusivity is worth a lot of money. We pay dearly for that ever-shrinking window.

What's amazing is, the window used to be up to a year. Now we have 90 to 120 days, so the window is worth less, but the cost of film rent keeps going UP. So who are the greedy ones again?
 
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 05-13-2016, 04:50 PM:
 
quote: Mike Blakesley
I wish there was some way to get across to these idiots that the theater industry is not this big bad greedy behemoth that just rakes in money by gouging people for movie tickets.
How many people of the general public even realize that movie studios are not the same as movie THEATERS?

When ticket prices go up, many people start blaming the theater owners as the bad guys when it's really the studios that are driving the price increases.

I think it would do a lot of good if, somehow, we could impress upon the masses that movie theaters aren't always the bad guys.
 
Posted by Manny Montes (Member # 5639) on 05-15-2016, 02:38 PM:
 
quote: Randy Stankey
Estimate the cost of a nicely sized flat screen TV at $1,000 to $2,000... the cost of a good home theater sound system at another $500 to $1,000. Add in the cost of your DVD/Blu-Ray player, the cost of this proposed set-top box and any other gadgets you need to make a home theater and the price can easily hit $2,000 or $3,000. If you go all-out, you could top $5,000 or more.
I hate this system and I think the pricing is way off however the issue with this argument is that a lot of people aren't going to buy all of this equipment just for movies. I love movies and I love blu-rays, however I bought my TV, audio system, etc for TV, Gaming, Movies, streaming, etc... I think with most home theatres they are such multitaskers that I think it would be very easy for people to think "oh well I'll have that for the big game, etc" instead of thinking WOW $1500 just to watch movies, I could go to the theatre a whole bunch of times for that!"
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-15-2016, 09:27 PM:
 
Yeah it's really comparing apples to oranges.

To me, picture size/quality and sound size/quality aside, the much better argument for theater vs. home is, the fact that at the theater it's all done for you AND there is no interruption of the movie. You're having a night out... something special, vs. just another same-old-same-old night at the house.
 
Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 05-15-2016, 10:14 PM:
 
I have always thought that movie theatres have a certain kind of a magical atmosphere that you don't find anywhere else.

I don't know if this "magic" still exists in today's multiplexes, though. (I literally don't know. I haven't been in any multiplexes in thirty years.)
 
Posted by Buck Wilson (Member # 5885) on 05-15-2016, 11:40 PM:
 
Some do, some don't.

If you find yourself an independently owned smaller multiplex, You'll typically find it has character and happy bubbly employees.

Go to an AMC or Regal though, You'll probably find it's an extremely sterile, bland experience. After getting harassed about donating money to charity or signing up for a rewards card, of course.
 
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-16-2016, 12:31 AM:
 
 -
 
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 05-16-2016, 01:59 PM:
 
quote: Manny Montes
I hate this system and I think the pricing is way off however the issue with this argument is that a lot of people aren't going to buy all of this equipment just for movies.
I get it and I understand what you are saying.

People don't buy 4-wheel drive trucks just because there might be a snowstorm one day out of the year. They might like to go off-roading. They might just want to carry tools and equipment to a work site. On the other hand, how many times do you see people driving big SUVs just to go to the grocery store? It's kind of a waste if you justify buying a truck for those reasons but all you end up doing is driving around town. I bet 90% of those 4-WDs never see anything more "off-road" than driving it on the lawn.

People don't buy guns just because they want to protect their house. They go hunting and target shooting. Some people study guns and gunsmithing. Some people just like to collect guns. At the same time, I'd bet that a majority of those guns collect dust in the back of a closet some place. It's a waste to buy guns for any of those justifications but never use them.

You can buy a 60" flat screen at Walmart in the $700-$1,000 range. Maybe a little more. Maybe a little less. Depends on what you get. You can get a nice big-screen TV at BestBuy for that range but some of their upscale models cost $2,000 and up.
A DVD/Blu-Ray costs $50 to $100 and up. A home theater stereo system costs a few hundred and up to $1,000 or more.
It all depends on what you buy, where you buy and whether you can get a deal.

My point isn't specifically the cost or whether TV systems get used only for movies. Of course, people are going to watch daily television programs or play games and stuff like that.

What I am saying is that people spend a lot of money to buy things and justify the purchase by saying that they'll watch movies in a home theater when, in reality, they have spent a lot more money than they needed and probably more than they can afford for something that is only going to be used for a fraction of its justified purpose.

Yes! People can buy nice things if they want to and they don't have to justify themselves. This is America! Right?
I am saying that, like the way people spend tens of thousands of dollars more than they need to on a big SUV that ends up only being a grocery getter or, like the way people justify owning a gun for home defense purposes then that gun ends up rusting away in a closet, people spend a lot more on home theater gear when they don't need to. Many of those people end up going to the movie theater, anyhow.

People buy home theater gear like they way they buy guns or buy SUVs or any other such stuff. They buy it on thin justifications. They spend a lot more money than they need to and they may only use stuff for a fraction of the reason they used to justify it.

It's like buying the latest iPhone... Marketing... Hype... Peer pressure... Herd mentality.

It's all empty marketing. It doesn't make sense.

People can buy TVs if they really want them but they should also think... They can watch movies in a theater for less money than they would spend on a TV system and, if they pick a good theater, they can have BETTER than their home theater.

So I stand by when I say that spending $100-plus dollars on another set-top box, plus $50 per movie and, likely, a monthly subscription fee just to watch movies at home is a waste of money and it doesn't make sense.

I think that movie theater owners need to do two things:

Get out the message that home theaters are a waste of money and don't make sense.

Step up their game so that when they say that movie theaters are better, it really IS better. By that, I mean the sterile, multiplex experience with stale popcorn, crappy screens and uncaring employees.

Movie theaters are better and they are cheaper in the long run.

We just need to overcome all that empty marketing hype that drives people to stay at home, thinking they are getting something better when they really aren't.
 
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 05-16-2016, 02:13 PM:
 
I am not so sure.

I am willing to bet that the people with really nice "home theatre" systems buy more movie tickets than people who just have a TV and a DVD player. Presumably, they invested the cash because they love movies and have some appreciation for how they should look and sound in a proper cinema environment.

It would be interesting to see some statistics on this, actually.

I do agree that the availability of high-quality home video and audio equipment should encourage (or force) cinemas to upgrade their offerings to exceed the quality of what people can get at home. As it happens, one of the benefits of D-cinema is that it forced many cinemas to upgrade their obsolete sound systems and put in high quality speakers and room treatments. But there are still mono houses with D-cinema equipment....
 
Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 05-16-2016, 03:18 PM:
 
quote: Randy Stankey
People can buy TVs if they really want them but they should also think... They can watch movies in a theater for less money than they would spend on a TV system and, if they pick a good theater, they can have BETTER than their home theater.

So I stand by when I say that spending $100-plus dollars on another set-top box, plus $50 per movie and, likely, a monthly subscription fee just to watch movies at home is a waste of money and it doesn't make sense.

I think that movie theater owners need to do two things:

Get out the message that home theaters are a waste of money and don't make sense.

Step up their game so that when they say that movie theaters are better, it really IS better. By that, I mean the sterile, multiplex experience with stale popcorn, crappy screens and uncaring employees.

Movie theaters are better and they are cheaper in the long run.

We just need to overcome all that empty marketing hype that drives people to stay at home, thinking they are getting something better when they really aren't.

I think you're marginalizing the audience with some of your viewpoints. Doing so risks treating them with contempt and missing the mark when you are trying to reach them.

> Get out the message that home theaters are a waste of money and don't make sense.

This would be a waste of energy and it would likely backfire on you anyway. Movie theaters enjoy the one thing those people can't get in their home theaters: exclusivity. That's what makes things like Screening Room dangerous for theaters.

> Step up their game so that when they say that movie theaters are better, it really IS better. By that, I mean the sterile, multiplex experience with stale popcorn, crappy screens and uncaring employees.

THIS is the most beneficial thing that theaters can do to be successful.

Doing this benefits a theater from every aspect. No matter what challenge of attracting audiences a theater is facing, delivering an excellent moviegoing experience from beginning to end is how to combat all of them.

People with home theaters enjoy movies. They don't stop going to movies in a movie theater just because they have a home theater (unless the movie theaters near them are so bad that they pale in comparison to their home theater, that is). If they just have a big TV and some speakers, they're still going to enjoy seeing a movie in a proper theater that does a good job. There are more entertainment choices than ever, so doing an excellent job makes a theater competitive with the other choices.

Things like Screening Room threaten the biggest advantage that theaters have, but even if Screening Room fails, another effort will be knocking at the door very soon thereafter.

If it or something like it succeeds, the best chance that a movie theater has to compete with it is in delivering the best possible experience.

Therefore, the only real option for theaters is to "step up their game" as you say.
 
Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 05-16-2016, 03:19 PM:
 
> People don't buy 4-wheel drive trucks just because there might be a snowstorm one day out of the year.

Sure they do. Obviously, they feel it is worth it.

> I bet 90% of those 4-WDs never see anything more "off-road" than driving it on the lawn.

My front yard is level with the top of the telephone poles. You haven't seen the steep winding driveway I have to transverse to get to my front lawn... [Smile]
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-16-2016, 03:34 PM:
 
I have a 4-wheel-drive pickup which is my daily driver. I do about 99% of my driving on paved roads, but I do use the 4-wheel drive pretty much daily during the winter when the roads are slick. In Montana (or any other state with farms and snowy winters) I would guess at least 75% or more of the pickups are 4-wheel drive.

Besides, there are lots of reasons you would need 4WD besides snow. Going up a steep or gravelly hill, pulling somebody out of a ditch, or being stuck in mud. All have happened to me even though I'm a city kid.

In Montana we don't really use the term "off-road" -- it's more like "off-highway" because we have many more miles of unpaved roads than paved ones, and you can easily need 4WD even though you are indeed on a road of some kind.

In my case...I don't need it often, but I like having it when I do need it. It has saved my butt on many occasions. I'll never own a pickup without it.
 
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 05-16-2016, 04:48 PM:
 
I'm sure that you'll all agree that, although individual people are often smart, people, in general, can be stupid. If you take one or two people, separately, you are likely to find some of the smartest people you might ever want to meet. If you take those very same people and put them in a crowd of dozens, they are likely to behave like cattle.

Mitchel and Mike, you guys are people who have trucks because you use them but I bet you also see many who don't and the most they ever use them off the normal roads is when they park them on the lawn.

I'm perfectly okay with people having trucks or home theaters or other things just because they like them. No beef, there. I still think that people in groups can and do fall prey to empty marketing far too often.

I think that this Screening Room concept is just another case of empty marketing and, unfortunately, I think that too many people will fall prey to it.

Scott, I take your criticism seriously. Yes, I see where my comments can make people feel like I am marginalizing them. I don't purposely intend to do that.

Still, in the end, I really do believe that Screening Room is little more than empty marketing that really won't live up to what people think it will be.

Sure, there will be some who will get something out of it in the same way Mitchell and Mike get use out of their trucks but I also believe that the majority won't.

I guess I'm asking how we can get that idea out without, as Scott warns, alienating people?
 
Posted by Martin Brooks (Member # 1269) on 05-19-2016, 01:46 PM:
 
quote: Randy Stankey
I guess I'm asking how we can get that idea out without, as Scott warns, alienating people?
There are ways to do that, but let's also remember that quality home theaters are the exception, not the rule. While the market is flooded with big-screen TVs, relatively few people actually have a decent sound system. The receiver market has been in the dumpster for years. At best, most people have a soundbar, if that.

I personally don't think that home theaters are the problem. If anything, it's Millennials (and others) who are willing to watch movies on a 4" screen who are the problem.

But if we did want to something to put more people in movie seats, there are a number of things that could be done:

- NATO (or the theater chains themselves) in conjunction with the studios should do a promotion. Remember in the early days of MTV, they had promos with famous rock acts saying, "I Want My MTV!"? They should do a promo where big directors and actors would say, "see it as it was intended to be seen...in a theater" and make the theater look really great.

- When you go to the ticket selling sites of the theater chains, they usually do tell you the format. But if you go to the third party sites, they don't. The theaters should insist that any third party site, such as Fandango, always list the film's format, especially when it's film, large screen, IMAX, D-Box, Atmos, ETX, whatever.

- Theaters should educate the public more. There should be a sign outside every screen listing the format:
Presented in: 70mm Ultra-Panavision 6-track DTS sound at an aspect ratio of 2.75:1 (for Hateful Eight) -or-
Presented in: Dolby Vision with Dolby Atmos immersive sound on a 60-foot wide screen at an aspect ratio of 2.4:1.
Etc.

- They should run a snipe that shows a 65" TV actual size on the theater screen. They should also have a TV spot that does the same.

- Most big films aren't advertised in newspapers anymore (at least not the NY Times, which doesn't even have the Friday movie clock anymore). But when films are advertised in newspapers, the formats should be listed. I know theaters don't like to do this because they move films around or it's complex because the ad is actually placed by the studio, but it seems to me if they have a film that they're playing on a special format screen, they're going to keep it there for at least a week.

- You know those TV spots for horror movies where they show the audience going nuts? There should be more of those, but not just for horror movies. They should show such audiences for comedies or even dramas where there's lots of reaction, emphasizing the communal aspects of seeing a movie with other people. They should have spots with "beautiful people" on movie lines. They should show young good looking women snuggling with their boyfriends (or any other gender combo you wish). They need to make going to the movies seem special again and not just for the big popcorn films.

- Aside from the film itself, theaters are doing nothing to promote themselves. In spite of the amazing box-office of some of the superhero movies, overall movie attendance continues to decline (in the U.S.) The big theater chains need to do something to reverse that. I assume they would care after they've made their big investments.

If you look back to the 1950s, when theaters had to first fight the onslaught of TV, they did all kinds of things to promote attendance: personal appearances, "dish night", etc. (Although movie attendance actually declined substantially beginning in 1947, even before TV had a real penetration.) Aside from the films themselves, it seems like theaters have given up on marketing (Alamo maybe excepted).

There's no reason to promote the benefits of theaters by putting down home theater owners. That will sound like a ploy by a dying industry and won't come off as credible. Besides, as someone else posted, they're the most likely to be film lovers. You just have to get them out of their basements.

Elsewhere on here, someone recently posted about checking all the auditoriums in a given theater (it was a theater that was still playing films in 35mm). IIRC, no screen had more than 15 people in it. Theaters will not survive if that's the kind of business that they're doing. You can't run a business that only has customers 2 1/2 days a week, if that.
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-19-2016, 02:36 PM:
 
quote:
- Theaters should educate the public more. There should be a sign outside every screen listing the format:
Presented in: 70mm Ultra-Panavision 6-track DTS sound at an aspect ratio of 2.75:1 (for Hateful Eight) -or-
Presented in: Dolby Vision with Dolby Atmos immersive sound on a 60-foot wide screen at an aspect ratio of 2.4:1.
Etc.

I wish there was a way to do it without all the numbers and tech-speak. If I had a multiplex I would label my biggest screen the "REALLY BIG SCREEN" and go with that. You could do a lot with that -- add on "really big sound" and "really big, comfy chairs" and maybe have a "really big popcorn" size exclusive to that screen....possibilities are endless. Most people don't know or care about the techno-numbers, or the alphabet-soup format names.

quote:
- They should run a snipe that shows a 65" TV actual size on the theater screen. They should also have a TV spot that does the same.
I love that idea. The Star Wars reissues used that gimmick and it was great. Our screen isn't all that big (30 feet) but anytime somebody brags about their 55 or 60 inch TV, I casually mention that we have a 402" screen at the theater...and a sound system to match.
 
Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 05-19-2016, 02:41 PM:
 
The public does not perceive that they are getting good value for there money by going out to a movie. Do to the cost structure of the industry, there is not much we can do about this. Various promotions, gimmicks and advertising will not work. It did not work in the 1950's, and will not work now. What did work then and would work now is giving the public something new and exciting, presentation wise, that they can't duplicate at home. 3D was almost it, until the up-charge and home availability killed it. ATMOS might have been it, except that most of the public does not know or care what it is, and those who do care can have it at home.

For most of the public, going out to a movie is an "event" activity as opposed to a day to day entertainment activity. I don't see this changing. As such, there are far too many screens out there. Inevitably, there will be a shakeout.
 
Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 05-19-2016, 03:08 PM:
 
Martin,

I like your ideas, they're good talking points that could actually lead to something constructive. A few thoughts:

quote: Martin Brooks
I personally don't think that home theaters are the problem. If anything, it's Millennials (and others) who are willing to watch movies on a 4" screen who are the problem.
I completely agree with this one. There is an entire generation of people growing up with a distribution system that is essentially free (all you can watch/hear, buried in a monthly subscription fee they probably don't pay themselves) and watched on a screen that fits in their hand/lap (phone, tablet, laptop).

However, when my kid has a bunch of friends over, the home theater makes an impression, so these kids can be influenced!

quote: Martin Brooks
When you go to the ticket selling sites of the theater chains, they usually do tell you the format. But if you go to the third party sites, they don't. The theaters should insist that any third party site, such as Fandango, always list the film's format, especially when it's film, large screen, IMAX, D-Box, Atmos, ETX, whatever.
Since I started The BigScreen Cinema Guide in 1995, I've been striving to deliver that kind of information and it's quite difficult to get it from theaters. We support THX and the various sound formats, as well as free-form comments that can include things like ETX, RPX, etc., but it's a challenge to get that information from the theaters. We usually get the ETX, RPX, UltraScreen indicators, but the sound formats and THX flags have always been difficult.

quote: Martin Brooks
They should run a snipe that shows a 65" TV actual size on the theater screen. They should also have a TV spot that does the same.
Marcus does this with their UltraScreen promos that run during the pre-show. A smartphone is crushed by a larger flatscreen, which is then crushed by the UltraScreen logo or something like that.

The comparison of a 65" TV would be effective, but only if the screen in the theater is wide enough to make an impression. I've been in some theaters where the viewing angle was probably the same compared to the 55" TV in my living room.

All that said, theaters are capable of delivering a much better presentation than anyone can do in their home. Even those of us with dedicated home theaters like to go to theaters, but I'm also much more selective about where I go. What's the sense in seeing a movie in a substandard environment when I can wait 100 days and see it in a better one (mine)? If I can't get to a new release while it's still in the premium screens, I might as well wait. That's a problem (for theaters).

It is surprising to me that NATO doesn't do more to market the idea of going to the movies. Are the dues really low that such things aren't feasible? I would think that NATO should be all over Screening Room with rebuttals and challenges because day-and-date proposals like that could be the death of its membership if they ever hit upon a formula that takes off.

I'm not a member of NATO, so maybe they're doing things that I'm not aware of, but I would hope that they would be raising points like yours and encouraging discussions on how theaters can rise to the challenges and work together to face them. If not, that's unfortunate, because the threat is real.
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-19-2016, 10:26 PM:
 
quote: Scott Jentsch
It is surprising to me that NATO doesn't do more to market the idea of going to the movies.
They've been talking about doing this for at least the past 10 years and nothing has ever materialized. They're still talking about it now -- it usually gets to the point where they announce something is being worked on, and that's the last we hear of it. I don't think the cost is a problem, I think agreeing on the format and content is.
 
Posted by Buck Wilson (Member # 5885) on 05-20-2016, 04:30 PM:
 
quote:
- They should run a snipe that shows a 65" TV actual size on the theater screen. They should also have a TV spot that does the same.
Regal did(believe it or not). It was good. The audio would even get flat, tinny, and quiet. Of course, they didn't use it for long.

They had a generic one-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ge-x4mPuZ_4

And also a custom one for each big blockbuster. They started out with an actual trailer, then the screen started getting smaller with no immediate explanation- It made it seem like something was legitimately going wrong. It was perfect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZXhzKBd-sE
 
Posted by Manny Montes (Member # 5639) on 05-23-2016, 11:51 AM:
 
I actually liked those ads I thought they were fun but still direct in their message.
 
Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 05-23-2016, 08:00 PM:
 
Those Regal snipes are great. Wondering why they don't use them.
 
Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 05-24-2016, 01:06 AM:
 
In other news, Netflix signed an exclusive Pay T.V. deal for all new Disney movies starting September in the U.S.:

quote:
“From September onwards, Netflix will become the exclusive U.S. pay TV home of the latest films from Disney, Marvel, Lucasfilm and Pixar,” said Netflix content chief Ted Sarandos in a blog post. It’s worth emphasizing that this will apply only to new theatrical releases, as there are separate licensing deals in place for other Disney content. Netflix’s “exclusive” partnership with Disney also extends into original programming, with Marvel’s Daredevil debuting on the video-streaming service last year.
Please note that this shouldn't affect the theatrical release window.

Still, those studio executives seem to be firmly convinced it's best for them to lock their content into walled gardens. It's seemingly easier to have someone else bend over backwards and letting them pay a premium on your precious content as to try to earn it yourself.
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-24-2016, 08:12 PM:
 
Funny how the Netflixes of the world want "exclusive" rights to movies, but they think the theatrical model of "exclusive" rights during the window is outmoded, even though we (as a group) pay far more during our little 90 day window than the Netflixes do, per viewer. Hmm.
 
Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 05-24-2016, 11:37 PM:
 
It's just the reality of stock market douche-bags being greedy. They're only too happy to shit on (and try to lay waste to) a business model that has worked for well over 100 years if it gives them a short term gain over a few months. There are no sacred cows with these day trader types.
 
Posted by Eric Hooper (Member # 1730) on 05-26-2016, 12:40 AM:
 
Those Regal ads are a joke since they are doing a lot of letterboxing at their theaters now. The picture isn't even fitting the entire movie screen anymore! This must be why they stopped running those ads.... [Eek!] [Roll Eyes] [Razz] [puke]
 
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 05-26-2016, 03:25 AM:
 
quote: Bobby Henderson
It's just the reality of stock market douche-bags being greedy. They're only too happy to shit on (and try to lay waste to) a business model that has worked for well over 100 years if it gives them a short term gain over a few months. There are no sacred cows with these day trader types.
While I agree with the idea, I don't think it's individuals being greedy that drives it. I think it's stupidity of people in large groups. I also think that people like that just are not capable of thinking any other way.
 
Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 06-28-2016, 03:52 PM:
 
Now you can have your own IMAX Theatre at home...

quote: Bloomberg News

When Greg Foster is having a bad day, he retreats to a room deep in the bowels of Imax Corp.’s Los Angeles offices. There, the executive who heads Imax's entertainment division, can reconnect with what makes him love his job: watching movies.

In a large, nondescript building in an industrial area known as Silicon Beach, Imax has built a screening room with all the aspects that a viewer would want from a big screen experience. The 60-foot-wide, 45-foot-high, curved screen tilts to an auditorium of 95 stadium-style seats. The one in the center has accommodated the biggest directors in the world, such as Star Wars: The Force Awakens's JJ Abrams.

If you have forked out the ticket price of about $20, nearly double the U.S. average, to see a film on an Imax screen, you know what the fuss is about: Bright, high-resolution images, all-encompassing sound, and a curved screen help immerse the viewer. Now the Canadian operator is bringing that experience into the home for you to enjoy with about 18 of your closest friends—provided you have more than $5 million to spare.
Blockbusters on Demand

'“It is the perfect marriage of a lot of trends we are seeing in entertainment consumption and our technology,” said Robert Lister, Imax’s chief business development officer, in an interview. “People are demanding content, when they want it, where they want it, how they want it.”

In particular, Imax Private Theatre is being targeted to the growing number of high-net-worth individuals (who have assets north of that $5 million mark) in places such as China and the Middle East.1 There, not only will viewers get the highest-quality cinematic experience available (Interstellar director Christopher Nolan would be happy), but they will also be able to watch new releases just as they open in theaters—a radical development by Hollywood standards. Imax home theaters in China and Middle East will have $10,000 secure set-top boxes to deliver new movies, called Imax Home Premier, which uses fingerprint security technology, with additional fees for each rental; Lister said the company is considering selling this service separately from its physical home theaters overseas.

New expansion in the U.S. and Europe, though, is just for the theater design and build-out. (Exhibitors aren't budging on their fiercely protected, months-long exclusivity windows; popcorn doesn't sell itself, after all.) Some at-home-theater owners in the U.S. have been using Prima Cinema to get the new movies of some Hollywood studios, at the cost of $35,000 a year for a set-top box and $500 per screening. Napster creator Sean Parker hit a wall recently with his own "day and date" service attempt after top filmmakers and exhibitor groups came out against Screening Room, which purported to offer new movies via a cheaper, $150 set-top box for about $50 a movie.
Goldilocks Sizing

However the movies are piped in, David Keighley, chief quality officer and a near 30-year veteran of Imax, maintains a watchful eye on the company’s at-home theaters to assure that the same exacting, high-quality features that any movie fan would find in a major theater are shrunk appropriately to fit a family home. At more than 10-feet tall, these home systems require rooms that can be devoted to the installation or built to accommodate one. A majority of sales so far have been for newly built homes and targeted to developers; the company has indicated that the roll-out has faced some headwinds from slowdowns in construction and real estate.

The basic system is the "Palais" setup, for theaters up to 75 square meters, at a cost of $400,000—a price on par with a new Bentley in China. The set-top box and film rentals cost extra. An even bigger “Platinum” system accommodates up to 40 guests and costs about $1 million. Sales of both systems are expanding into North America and Europe, according to Imax. Plans for a smaller version called “Prestige,” about half the size and price of “Palais” are also in the works.

The service is catering to a growing class that is not only rich but would not—or cannot—go to a local theater.

“It’s not just about uber-opulence, its also about privacy,” said Lucie Greene, worldwide director of JWT’s Innovations group. “Visibility in public spaces, and in the digital space, and public knowledge of their whereabouts is increasingly something ultra-high-net-worth individuals are mindful of and spending money to step away from.” The service caters not only to movie fans but also allows for gaming and karaoke as well.
Growth Opportunities

The initiative is a potential source of growth for the exhibitor—which is hardly found in the U.S., where the movie market is stagnating and few new theaters are being built. China is where the growth is. A love for Hollywood movies is supporting an unparalleled boom in the number of screens, with an average of 22 built every day last year. China’s box office is set to overtake that of the U.S. in the next few years.

The project is a joint venture with TCL Corp., which provides some of the hardware and software for the system. After launching a showroom in Shanghai in June 2015, the companies announced 130 screens had been sold as of April this year. More showrooms will be opened in China, Dubai, and North America by the end of this year, a spokesman for Imax said.

From Wall Street’s perspective, it’s is a low risk strategy and doesn’t cannibalize its main business. Some analysts were impressed with the early take up in China, with plans to roll out in the Middle East this year, could provide a small boost to earnings in 2017, according to Eric Wold, analyst at B. Riley & Co. The move “represents another opportunity to leverage the Imax technology and brand with minimal cost or risk for Imax,” he said.
The Imax Private Theatre "Platinum" setup can fit 40 guests for a cost of about $1 million.
The Imax Private Theatre "Platinum" setup can fit 40 guests for a cost of about $1 million.

Sun Minhui, general manager of Diamond Beach Resort in Hainan, China, with its waterfront villas, is an example of the kind of buyer Lister is focused on.

Sitting with his view of the South China Sea, Sun, speaking by telephone, said the resort is similar to Miami or Hawaii, where people go to vacation during the winter. For him and his clients, home cinema can be an important part in their social lives. For some, they want to see the best way to watch a movie, for others its a reason to invite friends to their home or business associates, he said.

“In China, the value of cinema is more than just watching movies,” Sun said in an interview and the ability to watch new movies at home is a “big change.”

“If next week there is a new movie coming out, I can invite many friends to my home,” Sun said. “You build your own small platform for your social life. ”


 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 06-28-2016, 06:31 PM:
 
Wow, a 10 foot high screen. That's cute. The letterboxed picture will be what, 7 feet tall?

Yet another Imax brand-whoring cash grab.
 
Posted by Buck Wilson (Member # 5885) on 06-30-2016, 01:50 PM:
 
quote:

If you have forked out the ticket price of about $20, nearly double the U.S. average, to see a film on an Imax screen, you know what the fuss is about: Bright, high-resolution images, all-encompassing sound,

I can't even.
 




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