Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Another cell-phone user attacks

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Posted by Buck Wilson (Member # 5885) on 03-24-2016, 02:54 PM:

Yet another inconsiderate fuck attacked an innocent patron just trying to watch a movie in peace at my theater's twin location in Topeka Ks.

http://www.wibw.com/content/news/373021601.html?=r

quote:

TOPEKA, Kan. (WIBW) -- A trip to the movies ended with a trip to the hospital for a Topeka couple and Monday they shared their story.

One of the victims told 13 NEWS she and her husband, who was also attacked, went to see 'The Young Messiah' at Hollywood Stadium 14 on Sunday afternoon. They both asked not to be identified.

About 30 minutes into the movie, she says she 'politely' asked a man in the row ahead of them to turn off his phone - three times.

"Each time I asked him he used the F word at me and he cussed at me. So, I told my husband I said this isn't right, so I went to get a manager" she said.

She says, on the way back to her seat, she asked the man to turn out the light once more. The man refused and continued to cuss. That's when he allegedly stood up, turned around and hit her in the face.

Her husband told 13 NEWS that, "by this time my wife was face-down on the concrete and there was blood everywhere. Her glasses were broken and it was just awful."

"Her husband came to her defense and the suspect struck him as well with the same object, again unknown what that object was," TPD Lt. Colleen Stuart said.

The victims describe the objects as a three to four lb. bag. She says she suffered a broken nose, concussion and black and blue swollen face. Her husband had a gash on his head. They were both taken to a nearby hospital for treatment.

Topeka police say the suspect was gone when officers arrived. One of the victims said the theater told him Regal doesn't have surveillance cameras. Stuart said the next step is to see if that's true and to look to surrounding businesses for footage of the suspect.

"To get an idea or at least put it out there for someone else to assist in identifying that person," Stuart said.

Meanwhile, the victims want to put out another message - "Go in groups, know your surroundings, and take a flashlight."

They describe the suspect as a white man in his mid-40's with salt and pepper colored hair. If you have any information you're asked to contact the Topeka Police Department at (785) 368-9551.

13 NEWS reached out to Regal Cinemas, which owns the Hollywood Stadium 14, and they declined to comment.

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 03-24-2016, 03:07 PM:

I can't help but note the irony of the movie this happened in.

Posted by Rick Raskin (Member # 1561) on 03-24-2016, 03:40 PM:

Asshole tries that shit in Virginia and he could wind up dead. Lots of concealed carry here.

Why didn't the victims just move and avoid confrontation?

Posted by Matt Johnston (Member # 5457) on 03-24-2016, 04:31 PM:

And my wife wonders why I don't go to the movies (except to work) anymore.

Posted by Travis Cape (Member # 466) on 03-24-2016, 04:58 PM:

The woman was correct in wanting the man to not use his phone. The problem is that she should have gone to find a manager either before she confronted the man the first time, or after the first time. She also shouldn't have said anything when she returned from speaking to a manager. In fact, she and her husband should have moved at that point.

She set herself up to get beat up by this trashy man. This is exactly why more people are carrying.

Posted by Michael Putlack (Member # 6523) on 03-24-2016, 06:15 PM:

Yes Travis, the victims are entirely to blame. In fact, the hero of the story, the guy that attacked the couple, should get a medal for doing what was right. I think that's actually why the police are looking for him.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-24-2016, 06:31 PM:

Never a good idea to take matters into your own hands. After the first request didn't work, they should have known they were dealing with a prick, and either changed seats, gotten a manager or asked for a refund.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 03-24-2016, 06:39 PM:

What would you expect the manager or usher to do?

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 03-24-2016, 07:26 PM:

quote: Louis Bornwasser
What would you expect the manager or usher to do?

How about tossing him out?

Posted by Travis Cape (Member # 466) on 03-24-2016, 07:55 PM:

Michael,

I didn't say the victim was to blame. I said that she set herself up to get hurt. There's no reason for the woman to speak to the man again after she spoke to the manager. I wouldn't ever confront a customer as a customer more than once possibly.

Louis,

I would expect the manager or usher to tell the guy to stop using his phone. If he failed to comply, kick him out and call the police if he doesn't leave.

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 03-24-2016, 08:04 PM:

quote: Michael Putlack
Yes Travis, the victims are entirely to blame.

I don't think anyone would reasonably think the victims are to blame. However, there is a level of personal responsibility for choosing confrontation over deescalating the situation by moving.

I do not ever blame the victim for the actions of an assailant, but I also believe in individuals having some degree of accountability for their own actions - even if it's "maybe next time I should handle that differently".

Posted by James Wyrembelski (Member # 9037) on 03-24-2016, 09:21 PM:

*sigh*

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 03-24-2016, 10:20 PM:

I still don't understand why it is apparently impossible for every theatre in the world with the sole exception of mine to control cell phone use in the auditorium.

There are only two steps involved. See the light? Talk to the customer. See it again? Throw him out.

Your customers don't have to interact, react, report, move, or do anything at all. You're the management; take care of the problem immediately when it arises.

What's the difficulty here, really?

Posted by Buck Wilson (Member # 5885) on 03-25-2016, 06:44 AM:

That is the ideal procedure and protocol. It's too bad 90% of the theaters in this country simply don't even remotely have the staffing to watch for things like that.

Posted by Jason McMillan (Member # 5542) on 03-25-2016, 08:15 AM:

quote: Frank Cox
I still don't understand why it is apparently impossible for every theatre in the world with the sole exception of mine to control cell phone use in the auditorium

Canadians are WAY more polite is my theory.

Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 03-25-2016, 08:35 AM:

I was at the Film Forum in New York City last week, where a woman in a wheel chair was talking on her cell phone. Someone in the row behind me got up and complained to the theatre management. They sent some in to tell her to stop, which she did for a short while. Apparently, they left someone to monitor the auditorium, because when she started again, they rolled her right out of the auditorium. My respect for that venue went up immediately.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-25-2016, 11:17 AM:

I "might" ask someone to stop using their phone once. Maybe. I'll get a manager otherwise, even if I don't give the idiot a chance to put away the damned phone. Violent incidents, such as the one Buck described, are yet another reason why ALL movie theaters need to have zero tolerance policies for mobile phone use.

Theaters could build auditoriums as functioning Faraday Cages by incorporating wire or mesh made out of aluminum, copper or zinc into the cinder blocks often used in the building structure. People would give up pretty quickly trying to check Facebook in there. A doctor on call who insists on being able to take and make calls in the auditorium could come back when he's not on call. The only real disadvantages Faraday Cage enhanced auditoriums would have is extra cost for the materials and theater staff not being able to communicate via walkie-talkies or phones in the auditoriums.

quote: Buck Wilson
That is the ideal procedure and protocol. It's too bad 90% of the theaters in this country simply don't even remotely have the staffing to watch for things like that.

That's really the thing though isn't it? Theaters just don't have the staff to properly maintain order in the auditoriums. With all the mergers and acquisitions taking place, like AMC buying Carmike, I expect the staffing games to get considerably worse.

As a customer I have to say it is a giant pain in the ass to go get a manager when I see an asshole playing with a phone during the movie.

First of all, if you have to get a manager you're going to miss a significant chunk of the movie. I already have a food and drink strategy to avoid having to take a piss break in the middle of a show. Getting a manager may take more time than visiting the restroom. If I'm forced to go get a manager I might be inclined to just ask for a refund and leave.

Next thing, unless you're sitting near an aisle it's not easy to leave your seat when the movie is playing. This is especially true for most stadium seated theaters. I like to sit in the sweet spot of the auditorium, which unfortunately leaves me the most seats in either direction to hurdle. It's dark. There's barely any leg room to walk. My stumbling and stooping for the aisle causes its own annoying disruption to other viewers.

In the end most people are stuck having to endure the distraction taking place. Mobile phone using jerks know this and take advantage of it. They know most people will just grit their teeth and put up with the bullshit rather than do anything about it. Unfortunately for the movie theaters customers will use those negative experiences as another reason on the checklist for watching movies at home instead.

I wouldn't be surprised if the couple who got assaulted never visit a commercial movie theater ever again.

quote: Justin Hamaker
I can't help but note the irony of the movie this happened in.

No kidding! A Sunday afternoon show of The Young Messiah is host to this kind of crap?

Another thing that amazes me is how the perpetrator was able to escape without getting his ass beaten by other people or at least photographed or videotaped. If I saw an incident like that unfold in front of me at a movie theater I'd photograph and videotape the shit out of that guy. I'd follow him out into the theater lobby, yelling for staff and keep clicking photos or video until he tried driving away in his vehicle. I'd photograph the shit out of his vehicle too. Why didn't anyone else do that?

If my girlfriend was in a situation like that and some guy punched her in the face I'd be liable to kill the guy if she didn't do so first. She's no shrinking violet. Even if the guy managed to beat me up he sure as hell wouldn't be escaping and certainly not doing so without getting badly wounded in the process. That's not even bringing in the possibility of conceal carrying a gun at the time.

Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 03-25-2016, 01:14 PM:

How many times must incidents like this happen before movie theaters decide that it is in their best interest to deal with issues like this? A strict no cellphone/smartphone/texting use policy backed up by enforcement so the word gets out that it's completely unacceptable and won't be tolerated.

These customers had to do the theater's job and paid the price when its paying customer assaulted two other paying customers.

The ramifications are wide-reaching. How many people in that audience came away with a positive impression of that movie theater, in movie theaters in general? How many people reading that story or watching that newscast will have a positive impression of that movie theater and movie theaters in general?

I know that I would avoid going to a theater which had such an incident. Word gets around fast, and pretty soon, the theater is left wondering why business is down.

There's probably a lot about this story that wasn't reported on, but one wonders why the woman returned without an employee in tow? Was she told that someone would check on it, but it wasn't an urgent enough situation to deal with right away? If staff was alerted to this situation, how was she able to return to her seat, the guy able to assault two people and leave the theater without an employee identifying the man?

And no security cameras? In this day and age? Wow. Even if you can't afford to staff your theater well enough to detect such things in person, technology exists to allow a central location to monitor and record what's happening in the auditoriums, the lobby/hallways, and exterior. Such footage would be invaluable in this situation, and it sure makes the conversation short if this guy were to say that the couple was making everything up.

Such stories hurt the entire industry, and every theater that allows such incidents to occur is responsible for perpetuating it in the future.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-25-2016, 01:43 PM:

I'm not too surprised a theater location of a big corporate chain would have no security cameras. It's more important to "return more value" to investors than look after customers.

A good security camera system is not expensive anymore. Many security camera models can record in HD quality, can be WiFi connected and have night vision capabilities. I've seen systems with 4 or even 8 cameras for under $500. You can get really good systems in the $500-$1000 range.

Our old Carmike 8 theater in Lawton has had a security camera system since the late 1990's. The late GM Jack Connor joked the camera system was there to police employees just as much as customers.

Even without a security camera system, I'm nevertheless shocked none of the other customers in the theater managed to snap any photos or video of the turd who assaulted that couple.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 03-25-2016, 01:48 PM:

quote: Frank Cox
I still don't understand why it is apparently impossible for every theatre in the world with the sole exception of mine to control cell phone use in the auditorium.

You're running a single screen, this one is a 14-plex. On slow days, there's probably not that much more staff around than in your theater.

Yeah, I'm exaggerating a bit, but that's essentially the problem. Another problem is that, while you're a business owner, holding a stake in the success of your own business, the minimum-wage monkeys employed at the average n-plex don't, so they probably couldn't care less about checking the auditoriums once in a while for signs of trouble.

Before digitization, you'd at least have the projectionist looking into an auditorium once in a while.

Posted by Buck Wilson (Member # 5885) on 03-25-2016, 02:24 PM:

As Bobby alluded to, it's not a customer's job to have to alert theater staff of cell phone users. They PAID to be there, so unless the theater refunds the ticket price and starts paying the customer, why in the sam hell should they be expected to miss the movie to alert the staff? That state of mind INFURIATES me. I have seen refunds/passes denied to patrons after the show simply because they never alerted staff. "They should've told us instead of watching the whole movie and then wanting a refund" and that's in response to ANYTHING- unsatisfactory volume, auditorium temp, presentation issues, loud kids, etc.

quote: Bobby Henderson
I wouldn't be surprised if the couple who got assaulted never visit a commercial movie theater ever again.

She said herself she'd never go back in the news video.

quote: Scott Jentsch
How many times must incidents like this happen before movie theaters decide that it is in their best interest to deal with issues like this?

Well, see, that'd require an investment of time, money, and energy. Not going to happen.

quote: Scott Jentsch
There's probably a lot about this story that wasn't reported on, but one wonders why the woman returned without an employee in tow? Was she told that someone would check on it, but it wasn't an urgent enough situation to deal with right away?

Quite likely, especially when all available staff members have their hands full and are tethered to their register or whatever they're doing.

quote: Scott Jentsch
And no security cameras? In this day and age? Wow.

Ha. That also requires money. Sure, it'd be worth it, but it's not going to happen. It may be easy enough to justify up to $1500 for one theater location, but the Regal overlords have hundreds of locations to account for and stockholders to answer to.....

quote:
You're running a single screen, this one is a 14-plex. On slow days, there's probably not that much more staff around than in your theater.

Yeah, I'm exaggerating a bit,

Mmmmmm not exaggerating so much.... I'd be REAL surprised to see more than 4 employees in the entire building on a given weekday. Have one person call in sick and you're crippled. It could be 20+ minutes before you could attend to a customer's request to monitor an auditorium.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-25-2016, 03:22 PM:

Well we're a single screen here, and it's easy to see into our auditorium from the office. But the ONLY way to monitor cell phone use 100% would be to have a staffer continuously walking the aisles, which would be a big distraction. We don't have much of a problem here though because if I DO see somebody phoning, I jump on them immediately. The result is people are VERY good about hiding their phones. And I've gotten pretty good about spotting the residual "glow" coming up from in front of a person - I don't need to see the phone screen itself.

Theaters could have one security camera per auditorium just under the booth port hole, focused on the audience. That way it'd be easy to spot a phone lighting up and dispatch somebody. I'm surprised there isn't simple software designed to "go off" when such a light is detected. It'd be pretty easy to do, I'd think.

The dopey thing to me is why people want to check their phones during movies anyway. It's worse than meth, the way people are addicted.

Posted by Manny Montes (Member # 5639) on 03-26-2016, 10:49 PM:

I can understand that a 14 plex doesn't have anyone to regularly monitor the auditoriums, at a twin or single maybe. But even when I worked at a SLOW 5plex, it was impossible to be everywhere at once, especially with how theaters run at thin margins already. If a guest reports an issue i'd resolve it, kick out the offender if I see their cell phone being used as well as issue a refund/pass to the guest who reported it since they had to leave the auditorium.

This should be standard policy for all theaters nationwide, no "warnings" etc, a good warning is your policy trailer before the show (hell i'd even run it last before the feature presentation so it catches all the late arrivers).

Also I'd be worried as KS is an open carry state that is very fond of their guns, I'd never confront anyone in there.

Also when Hollywood Theaters built this particular cinema they didn't invest in a camera system, it's also fairly new (2005) which is surprising.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 04-06-2016, 04:17 PM:

The thing with security cameras still is that you need someone to watch them. Even then, the picture quality and refresh rate of many of those CCTV systems isn't all that good, especially not in poor light conditions.

quote: Mike Blakesley
Theaters could have one security camera per auditorium just under the booth port hole, focused on the audience. That way it'd be easy to spot a phone lighting up and dispatch somebody. I'm surprised there isn't simple software designed to "go off" when such a light is detected. It'd be pretty easy to do, I'd think.

There was this company that claimed it could detect recording equipment this way, but that never really went anywhere. Having gained some very limited experience with some "smart" CCTV software in the past, that supposedly detects fishy activity and monitors certain zones for certain types of activity, like people standing too long in a certain spot or leaving unattended luggage behind, I'd say it generally triggers way too many false-positives to be useful in an environment where you don't have dedicated people handling those incidents.

Maybe you could centralize supervision of many theaters into one remote site with dedicated personnel monitoring many auditoriums using some software assisted CCTV system, but I'm also not sure how well this would work.

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 04-06-2016, 06:25 PM:

Some enterprising geek needs to make a surveillance device that tracks the light source and fires just enough of a laser to cripple the damn thing. Not enough to injure anyone, just make their phones useless, or at least inconveniently damaged. [evil]

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 04-06-2016, 09:06 PM:

quote: Marcel Birgelen
The thing with security cameras still is that you need someone to watch them. Even then, the picture quality and refresh rate of many of those CCTV systems isn't all that good, especially not in poor light conditions.

The biggest problem I see present with security camera systems is many of the ones in use are old and outdated. Some of these still feature low resolution black and white video, often with poor focus quality. I think the tendency is to just keep using the outdated surveillance systems until some important component in the system breaks that can no longer be repaired.

Modern video surveillance systems are actually fairly impressive, and they're more affordable than ever. It's not going to break the bank to get a full color system with 4, 8 or even 16 cameras capturing 720p or 1080p quality. It's not going to be broadcast/cinema quality, but the footage will contain a whole lot more important detail than the old 240i/480i black and white garbage some people are still using. Some systems will do well in low light and/or use UV. Cloud based storage starting to come into play, as an added back-up to on site storage -but that really depends on a hell of a good Internet connection.

As for needing people to watch the cameras, yes that's a pretty difficult proposition in a movie theater. However, newer surveillance systems have ample storage capacity. With cameras positioned in the right places it wouldn't be very difficult to videotape serious offenses.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-06-2016, 09:54 PM:

quote: Marcel Birgelen
There was this company that claimed it could detect recording equipment this way, but that never really went anywhere.

I remember the company but not the name of it. They were at CinemaCon a few years ago doing security on all the screenings. (I think this is who you're talking about, anyway.) They claimed to sweep all the seats with their "automatic" software using a high-rez camera mounted above the screen, and if the system spotted any camera lenses pointed at the screen (via picking up the reflection from the lens), the alert would go off at the control center, the theater would be alerted, allowing the offending camcorder to be escorted out in a big hurry. I suppose such a system might work on normal-sized camcorders but I'd expect tiny phone camera lenses probably would be too hard to pick up.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 05-02-2016, 02:08 PM:

Mike, that system was primarily to stop piracy, you know, to protect the STUDIO from piracy, not to protect the movie-going experience of the PAYING CUSTOMER...who pretty much is on his own. A system like that certainly could work to do both and as Bobby points out, they can be had now for very reasonable amounts of $$ considering that cost amortized over many years in theatre operations is pretty insignificant.

I really like Martin's idea of a laser that explodes the offender's cell phone. The laser could also scribe an L on the forehead of the turdbreath who was using that cell. L is for LOSER.

This problem has become so noxious to my enjoying a movie in a theatre that I have taken to:
1) never EVER going to show on a weekend,
2) ALWAYS going to either the first or last show on Monday or Tuesday or maybe a Wednesday
3) waiting until the film has played for two or more weeks so the crowds are thinned out -- at least if there is some cell lizard, I can move elsewhere in a 3/4 empty theatre. Plus, I don't see any advantage to going when a film first comes out -- people who think they MUST see a film on opening Friday or opening weekend have serious self-control issues.

And this goes directly to the business of needing to get the manager --
4) I have take to programming the theatre management office phone number into MY cell before I get my ticket so if there is a disturbance or even if the sound or picture is faulty, I don't need to get up and go wandering around the caverns of a multiplex for half an hour into my film to find the manager --I just call the dude up and tell him to get his ass into theatre number such and such.

Bottom line, as has been stated, the patron shouldn't have be the one doing what the management should be doing -- making SURE that the theatre environment is without distraction or annoyance, or worse threatening. Funny they USED to be able to operate theatres sans these issues years ago. So when did exhibition start to bury its head in the popcorn bin thinking that NOT providing a really conducive environment (which is what the patron PAID for) doesn't hurt his business and exhibition as a whole?

Proof -- even here on F-T where everyone to a person LOVES movies, you hear our people saying they rarely go to the theatre because it's so fraught with things that mar the presentation/experience.

When you hear one of us saying we HATE going to the movies, it has to tell you that exhibition is doing something very wrong. When I was a kid, I never EVER heard anyone say they hated going to the movies, not the young, not the old. How come? Did exhibition have some magic formula that has gotten lost in time?

I second what Scott says -- these kinds of incidents do significant damage to the already deteriorating reputation of the exhibition in general -- everyone is tainted. If exhibition, who cries incessantly about their shrinking bottom line and their supposedly paper-thin profit margins, can't see how letting these serious annoyances go unabated isn't more detrimental to those shrinking margins than hiring that extra usher or two, then they are just delusional. BTW, I am not so sure I believe that the exhibition conglomerates are skating on such thin profit ice as they like to allude, the movie industry is racking up billions and billions so I can't see how exhibition isn't swimming around in that money pool even if it is in the shallow end.

While this may not be the answer, it certainly was 100% effective and immediate. The Filmore East in the Village NYC, would hire four to six big burly wrestlers from Columbia U team and have them positioned in the auditorium in the front and rear; all carried very bright, heavy-duty flashlights. When some fool got rowdy during the show, whichever of these imposing "ushers" saw the offender, he hold his flashlight over his head and aim it at the jerk and used a wiggling motion, sure to catch the attention of the perp. This of course also caught the eye of the others who would then in turn also aim their flashlights over their heads at that same offender. Now he's got four to six light aimed at him from all angles. They would do that light dance on him for about a minute and then stop. Almost always, the offender would immediately stop whatever unacceptable activity he was doing from the intimidating and startling, glaring light and I suppose from the embarrassment too. However, if he was moronic enough to then continue the activity, all these guys would again turn their flickering flashlights back on him, but now also briskly make their way over to him, literally pick him up by the shoulders and carry him out of the theatre. It was swift, it was definitive, and for anyone who was being annoyed by this idiot, it was a beautiful sight to behold. Everyone was very aware of the fate that would befall them if they caused trouble. It didn't take long for it to be generally known the Filmore East was not a venue that tolerated shenanigans --you behaved or got thrown out, full body slam to the sidewalk.

Many times when I see a cell lizard babbling on a lit cell, I fantasize him being Filmored; it doesn't happen of course, theatre personnel are not about to even make an appearance so I, like so many others, sit there grit our teeth and take it. And then walking home mutter, "I HATE going to the movies."

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-02-2016, 02:30 PM:

quote: Frank Angel
So when did exhibition start to bury its head in the popcorn bin

That's an easy question - it started when the multiplex era dawned. And escalated with the arrival of the megaplex. No 20-screen theater can afford to have a couple of guards in every auditorium every show watching for cellturds. And having a small handful of cellturd-catchers going from screen to screen walking the aisles continuously would be a distraction, and would also be expensive.

So exhibition decided to rely on human decency and cultural evolution, which SHOULD tell everyone that using a cellphone in a theater is impolite. But guess what -- people don't give a rat's patoot about being impolite anymore. As long as THEY get to do what THEY want, they're happy, no matter if it bugs anyone else.

Therefore exhibition is stuck with a problem that's too expensive to solve, without raising ticket prices and nobody wants that.

At least at our place, I can walk into the back of my one auditorium and spot a cellaholic and shut'em down fast.

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 05-02-2016, 04:04 PM:

I was amazed last night -- I saw a cell phone going while the show was on and walked over to tell the person to quit and it was an old lady in her 80's, texting!!

*boggle*

I gave her my standard spiel: "The phone lights up the auditorium." "I know." "Please leave it off until the end of the show." "Uhh... this is important." "Ok, then come out to the lobby to send your text because the light is interfering with other people." She then put the phone in her purse and that was the end of that -- apparently it wasn't that important after all.

Sheesh. Even the old ladies, now...

Posted by Harold Hallikainen (Member # 5405) on 05-02-2016, 10:17 PM:

Frank Angel wrote "Mike, that system was primarily to stop piracy, you know, to protect the STUDIO from piracy,..."

That system is Pirate Eye ( http://www.pirateeye.com/ ). I saw them at a few ISDCF plug fests a while back.

Harold