Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Meet the Lone Loser in MoviePass Hitting 1 Million Members

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Posted by Harold Hallikainen (Member # 5405) on 12-24-2017, 12:17 PM:

http://host.madison.com/business/investment/markets-and-stocks/meet-the-lone-loser-in-moviepass-hitting-million-members/article_9b54dd21-806d-5b92-92c9-d5d263af9268.html

It's no surprise to see the best deal in the multiplex industry gaining momentum. MoviePass announced on Wednesday that it has surpassed a million subscribers to its namesake service, a debit card that lets members screen a single movie a day for just $9.95 a month. Shares of Helios and Matheson Analytics (NASDAQ: HMNY) moved 3% higher on the news, as it owns a nearly 54% stake in the platform.

MoviePass has come a long way since it was servicing just 20,000 accounts in mid-August. Slashing the monthly price of its service from what had been as high as $30 to $50 to less than 10 bucks turns heads. The last movie ticket you bought was probably for more than $9.95, so just imagine how much money you can save if you see more than a single movie a month through MoviePass. Some of the larger theater chains have complained about MoviePass disrupting the value proposition, and it's easy to see why there's nervous rumbling among streaming video services if folks are flocking back to the corner multiplex.

At the end of the day, the theaters will benefit from the increase in box office sales. Streaming isn't going away. There's only one real loser when it comes to MoviePass hitting a significant seven-figure milestone this week, and -- spoiler alert -- it's the stock that rose 3% on Wednesday following the announcement.

Let's all go to the lobby
AMC Entertainment (NYSE: AMC) has been bellyaching about MoviePass since its summertime price cut, but it's a flimsy argument. AMC and most of its smaller peers are getting face value for MoviePass purchases. They're debit card transactions, and AMC revealed in its latest earnings call that it's collecting an average of $11.88 per ticket from MoviePass members.

Exhibitors were having another lousy year until It arrived in early September. Moviegoers flocked to the silver screen reboot of Stephen King's horror classic in record numbers, but it's probably not a coincidence that it was also just when MoviePass debit cards were getting sent out in droves to those hopping on the monster deal. AMC argues that it turns the value proposition of a night out at the movies on its ear -- and that's fair -- but AMC Entertainment and its rivals should all be thriving through the next few quarters as a million people and counting have MoviePass pay full price for the spike in flicks they're watching.

MoviePass is giving multiplex theaters a boost, and it's also bailing out Hollywood. Helios and Matheson itself has also pushed out press releases claiming that a large percentage of indie flicks promoting through the platform are seeing a spike in MoviePass redemptions relative to traditional purchases. If you are fortunate enough to get a MoviePass card -- they're still drowning in customer complaints on that front -- you're going to use it.

The only real loser here, unfortunately, is MoviePass. It claims that it will eventually be able to offset the multiplex subsidization through advertising, selling data, and working with theater chains for discounts, but there's no way that the data culled or the marketing pitched on an $11.88 movie ticket will cover that tab. MoviePass is going to bleed through a lot of money, and it wasn't a surprise to see shares of Helios and Matheson lose nearly a third of its value last Thursday after announcing a secondary offering at a fire-sale price. The MoviePass model is great for film buffs and probably even better for the film and theater industries. It's just had to imagine it ever becoming a sustainable business model.

Posted by Jonathan M. Crist (Member # 413) on 12-24-2017, 01:12 PM:

MoviePass is radically changing the value of the theatrical film experience, but what does that mean for consumers and theater owners?

The Verge Article by Nick Stott December 15, 2017

I see a lot of movies. I moved to the Bay Area from New York nearly five years ago, knowing not a single person living in San Francisco, and I found going to the movies to be a solitary, almost meditative experience. Even as my friend group expanded, I kept up on the cherished cinematic ritual: the exorbitantly priced snacks, the ticket-taking and seat-selection process, the previews, and then the movie itself, with its sense of experiencing something new and unseen. There’s an antiquated sense of sacredness to a movie theater, and a theatrical experience only it can deliver.

Still, that experience isn’t cheap. In San Francisco, seeing two movies a month costs at least $25 — upward of $40 with any type of food. Three movies a month is nearly equivalent to four months of Netflix. MoviePass, the now suspiciously cheap subscription service from Netflix co-founder Mitch Lowe, is pretty much tailor-made for moviegoers like me. And theater chains, particularly AMC, are absolutely not on board.

I signed up in late August, after the steep price drop, and got my MoviePass card in early September. In the past three months, I’ve paid a little under $30 to see 14 films. The flat monthly fee freed up my budget to splurge on concessions, but even if I buy more food, I’m still coming out on top. The average movie in San Francisco costs about $12, nearly 50 percent higher than the national average. So seeing just one film a month with MoviePass, which lets you see one movie per day for $9.95 a month, more than covers the cost of the subscription fee.

For me, MoviePass has become a simultaneously dangerous and exhilarating experience. I feel like I have access to a dark secret: perhaps movies aren’t really worth what we’re told they’re worth. What if, instead of paying $12, you could always just pay $2 or $3, bundled into a monthly fee? I cherish the theater experience as an institution. But given the freedom to pay less for it, I can’t help but take the opportunity. It’s like the Napster era, when the sheer ease of music piracy made it tremendously tempting, except that I can enjoy MoviePass with a clean conscience. At least until the company decides it can’t sustain its pricing model, or chains reject the service entirely, or something larger and more systemic changes about the film business.

But MoviePass has fundamentally changed the value I put on movie tickets. This is why it’s so controversial for theater chains. At first blush, it may be difficult to understand why. MoviePass still pays theater chains full price for the tickets it passes on to its own customers. It also restricts users to standard screenings, so no IMAX or 3D, and most theaters don’t support online pre-purchasing, so you have to go in person to buy your ticket. Problem is, AMC and other chains have to worry about MoviePass going belly-up.

From the outside, that seems inevitable since if I see two movies a month in pricey San Francisco, I’m already costing MoviePass money. MoviePass is banking on some subscribers seeing only one movie per month, or none at all. It’s offsetting the higher cost of tickets in expensive urban areas with the lower cost in other parts of the country. It’s taking a loss in order to build a consumer base, and banking on collecting data about those consumers’ habits, and selling it down the road. AMC claims the company is planning to eventually leverage its base against theaters, and try to push movie prices down. But if none of these things happen on the scale the company hopes, MoviePass’ model is unsustainable.

And the company is aware of the necessity of providing consistent data and keeping customers locked in. In November, MoviePass changed its terms of service to limit users’ ability to deactivate and reactivate the service at will, so they can’t limit their use to summers and the year-end holiday season. The company also offered an even more discounted rate if viewers were willing to pay upfront for a year.

The company is going through a boom period: MoviePass saw 150,000 new signups in just two days when it dropped its price back in August. But if it does go under, those subscribers will have to return to paying between $10 to $15 for a single ticket. After three months with the service, I don’t think I could do that. MoviePass changes almost everything about the theater experience, when the cost of entry is virtually zero.

Now I idly entertain the idea of seeing a movie every day after work, or when I have time to kill before meeting friends. I’m more willing to consider movies with subpar Rotten Tomatoes scores but otherwise appealing concepts, like The Foreigner and Murder on the Orient Express. I’m also more likely to consider films in genres I typically avoid. Now, nothing really gets in the way of going to the theater except how much free time I have. But once you’ve gotten something for what feels like free, it’s difficult to go back to paying for it. If MoviePass went away, I’d still reserve money and time to see one or two films a month, but I’d be more choosy than I used to be, and more reluctant about paying full price for tickets. I can imagine other subscribers writing off theaters until something similar to MoviePass pops up again — especially with so many other, cheaper entertainment options available.

The same struggle between the subscription model and the single-item model has played out with other entertainment industries lately. Fewer consumers are eager to buy physical CDs in the era of Spotify, or DVD box sets in the age of Netflix. Over the last five years, both physical music and digital download sales have shrunk, while streaming revenue has grown, overtaking physical media for the first time this year. This past summer also marked the moment when Netflix subscriptions surpassed those of all US cable providers combined. The film business and its players up and down the chain remain some of the few entertainment holdouts resisting the transition to “all you can consume” subscription models.

So MoviePass poses a kind of existential threat to theater owners, because its model devalues access to the theater experience. We pay so much money to sit in a theater, and for the right to drink an overpriced soda or eat a $10 tub of popcorn, because theaters have all decided on a ticket price customers must pay for the premium of that big screen and sound system. Theaters keep trying new things — comfy recliners, next-generation surround sound, laser-powered projectors, “4DX” screenings, and restaurant-quality dining options. But in the end, when theaters make money, or Hollywood manages to recoup its ever-growing film budgets, it’s because ticket prices have steadily risen over time. They’ve hit an all-time high in 2017, even as the number of moviegoers has declined.

Beyond conditioning consumers to expect absurdly low price-per-movie metrics, MoviePass takes pricing control out of theaters’ hands. Fewer people will want to see a $22 movie at a 3D IMAX theater when the standard 2D version costs 10 percent of that. By giving consumers a cheaper option — and as with all buffets, it becomes a progressively better value the more you use it — MoviePass is harming how much studios and exhibitors can control their own destiny. The price of a movie ticket, and the stranglehold on streaming and distribution rights, is at the core of the film industry’s livelihood.

There is a silver lining in MoviePass’ risky gamble. MoviePass may very well be unsustainable, even if it manages to partner with theaters for discounted tickets or food and drink deals, or if the long-term play to monetize its data bears fruit. That latter business model may need some kinks ironed out, because as it stands today, anybody with the card and mobile app login can use it. So friends and family members can share a MoviePass card just as they do with a Netflix or HBO Go login, spoiling the usage data MoviePass is banking on.

Yet at the end of the day, MoviePass is getting me and thousands of others to see more movies, sometimes regardless of what critics are saying. Movies have become such an overwrought affair these days, involving careful scrutiny over film and theater selection, because of how much tickets cost. Films that seem like required theatrical viewing are rare, given that the trip might cost a group of four upward of $75. It’s tempting to just wait for a new picture to hit Netflix, Amazon, or Redbox.

Yet subscription businesses have proved that, when given choice and freedom, people will consume more. The process of weaning consumers off one form of media consumption and directing them to another does take years. And there are always concerns over how artists and creators are being compensated in all-you-can-consume models, and how ambitious new projects are greenlit over safe franchises. Netflix and Spotify have proven the viability of media subscription models, but those models are evolving rapidly as the industry changes.

It’s not clear there is a way to build a movie theater subscription service that makes everyone happy. Even at $20 or $30 a month, it doesn’t seem viable so long as the rest of the economic chain of the film industry holds the line. But instead of criticizing MoviePass’ approach, or trying to prevent the service from taking off, the film industry should treat the service’s popularity as a learning experience.

Just as Netflix and other on-demand services have helped revolutionize the culture around media consumption, so could companies like MoviePass — with the right support structures in place, and perhaps a bit of compromising from consumers like me. Cinemark has already taken tentative steps toward creating its own subscription model. It doesn’t look particularly competitive, but it’s a first step. The film industry just needs to figure out how to meet moviegoers halfway.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 12-24-2017, 03:31 PM:

Well there's only one way to make the whole thing work financially -- charge more money for it.

I'm sure when people first get MoviePass they binge out on every movie they can find, but then the novelty wears off and they probably settle in to one or two movies a month, the same as they did before they had a MoviePass. So that's what MoviePass ought to cost....the price of 1 or 2 movies a month.

Pricing something below cost is the very antithesis of business. It's OK for something you want to get rid of, but you don't do that with your A-list product. Heck I learned that from my dad when I was about 9. I can't believe MoviePass thinks they can magically ignore the rules of reality, especially when the returned value of "advertising" keeps shrinking.

Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 12-24-2017, 10:05 PM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
Pricing something below cost is the very antithesis of business

Unless you can make it up in volume!
[beer]

That always ranked second in my stupid things people say about business list after "it's a tax write off for them."

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 12-26-2017, 05:43 AM:

It's also how those "business 2.0" ventures work nowadays... First, give it away for free or at insane rebates by burning up someone's cash and once you have sufficient "mass", try to figure out a business model from there, maybe do an IPO in between so the original share holders can cash in and then see if it sticks. If it doesn't, someone else will be holding the bag by then.

Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 12-26-2017, 12:08 PM:

Overall the article is reasonable, though I doubt the following:

quote: Harold Hallikainen
Exhibitors were having another lousy year until It arrived in early September. Moviegoers flocked to the silver screen reboot of Stephen King's horror classic in record numbers, but it's probably not a coincidence that it was also just when MoviePass debit cards were getting sent out in droves to those hopping on the monster deal.

Our little rural drive-in essentially sold out for weeks, in September when we normally don't draw much at all, probably the busiest 3-4 week run this place has had in 50 years. There's no MoviePass in Canada, nor do I think that 1 million of them in the U.S. caused this phenomenon. But the article mostly makes sense, this thing is doomed to fail, now where do I buy "Puts" on this thing?

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 12-26-2017, 04:52 PM:

You'll have to wait until they go public, then you can short the stock. [Wink]

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 12-26-2017, 05:24 PM:

The article is also wrong about "exhibitors were having another lousy year." It was a lousy end to the summer but the year overall was decent. They can't all be "up" years with the kind of movies we're seeing.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-05-2018, 06:00 PM:

On the comment on MP: a buzz word has it that we must check which movie the patron has bought on with MP instead of just using the card for ANY film when we ring it in on our registers.

To me, that's not our responsibility, for that responsibility is between the patron and MP.

Anyone heard of this?

If they hit a million members, MP is gaining almost 10 Million a month in revenue.

Posted by Travis Cape (Member # 466) on 01-05-2018, 06:37 PM:

Monte,

The customer has to check-in with the app to allow the MP credit card to work. The app keeps track of what the customer has seen. I've never tried to watch something again. I assume the MP app wouldn't allow me to check-in.

I guess I could go into a different auditorium. I did read on the terms of service that you could get hit with a $25 charge if they think you're committing fraud.

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 01-05-2018, 09:48 PM:

I'm curious to know if other theatres are not seeing much in the way of snack bar purchases from MoviePass customers. We have about 10 regular customers using MoviePass, and for the most part they actually spend less at the snack bar than our regular customers. The exception being the few regular customers who have gotten movie pass.

Posted by Mike Spaeth (Member # 524) on 01-05-2018, 10:16 PM:

Of course per capitas drop when using MoviePass. It's the same reason why per capitas are lower on discount days. You're attracting a crowd that is out to save a buck, whether out of necessity or other reason. It's not the same people as those who are willing to buy a full-fare ticket.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-08-2018, 03:55 AM:

..and this drop in the Per Cap could be scaring AMC, and heard Harkins refuses to take MP.

You watch: conc prices will go up along with tix prices due to the increase of MP sales.

I tell patrons to use MP while they can, for it reminds me of an MLM: "If it's too good to be true, it probably is."

Big thing I really see is patrons, buying a large popcorn ask for hot dog boats to split up the large popcorn in, plus use their refill in filling more boats. Their is revenue lost right there.

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 01-08-2018, 10:50 AM:

I charge one dollar for an empty popcorn container for just that reason.

When I first added that price to my menu board I figured it was just a disincentive for people to split their popcorn like that and I wouldn't ever actually sell an empty popcorn container. Imagine my surprise when it turned out that I sell one every few weeks.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 01-08-2018, 11:36 AM:

Frank--doesn't that screw up your inventory? Or do you use a different size container than the ones that you actually sell for the empty containers?

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 01-08-2018, 12:24 PM:

I don't deal with inventory in that way. I just sell what I sell, order more stuff when the pile is getting low or the shelf is looking bare, and count the stock once a year on January 1 to make a list to give to the accountant.

For admissions I use Admit One roll tickets and just record the start and end numbers each night.

To record each night's sales I just count the grand total take for the night, subtract the float, subtract the ticket sales, and what's left is the concession sales.

I actually made a spreadsheet that does most of the work for me (and calculates the sales taxes) and allows me to print a box office report at the end of each week to send to the movie company.

It's fairly painless. [Smile]

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-08-2018, 08:27 PM:

..the advantage of being your own boss - you can call the shots without anyone watching you.

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 01-08-2018, 10:00 PM:

We give out basic #6 brown bags when someone asks for something to share popcorn. We would prefer to do away with it, but so many customers expect it that it would likely hurt sales to stop giving them away. We also sell the carryout boxes for $0.25 if someone wants those for sharing popcorn. Surprisingly we sold 1000 of them in 2017. When I first took over the theatre they were giving out those boxes for sharing popcorn - some customers were taking 4-5 boxes at about 17¢ each - not to mention the larger trash profile.

Of course the carry out boxes are still free if someone needs it to carry their snacks.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-08-2018, 10:05 PM:

Interesting, I don't think we ever get requests for extra buckets for sharing. Or at least I've never heard anybody ask for that...I'll have to check with the crew.

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 01-08-2018, 11:31 PM:

Mike, I would be curious to hear what you find. It may be that splitting rather than sharing has become the norm here so people do it because they see others doing it. However, I would say about 75% of the large popcorns we sell come with a request for bags to share, especially when it's more than 2 people.

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 01-09-2018, 12:05 AM:

That many? Wowza! It's never been that common here; just common enough that it started to bug me until I instituted the $1 charge. Now that I get their dollar, I'm less bugged. [Smile]

Maybe your large popcorn is too large and that's why it encourages sharing. I have three sizes of popcorn, 32 oz, 46 oz and 85oz containers (that's what it says on the boxes anyway) and I've never offered anything bigger than that.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-09-2018, 02:30 AM:

We have those plus the 132 ounce. The 85 oz is by far our biggest seller, partly because it's in a couple of combos that are very popular.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 01-09-2018, 02:35 AM:

You can't really stop people from sharing their concessions. I guess it would not even be legally possible to stop it in many cases. Even giving out extra bags, cans, boxes or boats shouldn't really hurt the bottom line too much.

The easiest fix to stop rampant abuse would probably be to stop free refills, if you have them. I've never really understood the idea behind it anyway, unless you are planning intermission in every movie, you're literally motivating people to leave during the movie.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 01-09-2018, 05:41 AM:

I think that the idea behind "free refills" is that they are normally only offered on the largest size. Most people won't finish that size popcorn/drink, anyway, and most of those who do probably won't want to leave the movie for a refill. It's a way to make the large sizes more appealing without actually costing the theatre very much, since so few people actually take advantage of the offer.

Justin--are your "free" bags just like paper lunch bags? Aren't those noisy? (Or is this at a drive-in?)

Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 01-09-2018, 08:40 AM:

When they use MoviePass for tickets, they would then have to pay for concessions with another form of payment, right? I would think that would be a disincentive to purchase anything extra, because of the extra step (mental and/or physical) involved to do so.

Maybe you could have a MoviePass Combo or something that would encourage MoviePass customers to buy a concession package that is themed toward the promotion they're already taking advantage of. It might not be any different than any other combo, but the marketing may pay off.

Perhaps coming up with a promotion where concessions would be offered at a discount would appeal to customers. Our local gas station has a car wash, and you can get a $1 discount on car washes with a fill-up. Additionally, they have car wash cards, where you can pre-purchase a certain number of a certain type of car wash, at a small discount over the retail price (it works out to be about the same as the $1 discount).

However, every once in a while, they offer a card that has 10 of the most expensive car washes at a substantial discount. I think that one that I bought was $55 for 10 car washes that they normally charge $10 or $11 each for. The $5.50 price got the price to $2 less than the car wash I normally get, so even though I'm getting more than I would normally pay for, I'm actually paying less.

I don't know if they do this promotion as a loss leader, but I doubt it. My guess is that they're still making a bit of money, and if I'm driving there for a car wash, I might as well get gas...

Do POS systems that have gift card capabilities have the ability to do something like this? Can you offer a normally high-priced combo as a standalone item on the card, so you can sell a card that has, say, 10 of them on it? That would give you the ability to offer a promotion from time to time, and it would also be a way for people to not have to pay each time they visit, which may appeal to some, especially those that are taking advantage of a monthly pre-paid subscription program like MoviePass.

Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 01-09-2018, 10:09 AM:

No refills for us, I think at the drive-in we tend to get a lot of families and larger groups and I figured we'd lose a fair amount of sales that way. We give out bags, cups or trays if requested though, as we don't use them for inventory. Spent many years in the grocery business doing inventories, so now we're just a buy it, sell it and make it cheap enough on the final night of the year so it's all gone type of set-up. (We're pretty good at it by now though, we're usually so close to sold-out by the final night or two that we need to hit the local cash-and-carry or grocery stores to offer a proper selection final night.)

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-09-2018, 12:55 PM:

OK so here's a question...how does a theater sign up to accept moviepass? I have found out that every theater around us accepts it, so we probably should too...but I've been all over their website and don't see anywhere for a theater to sign up for it.

??

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 01-09-2018, 02:09 PM:

I don't know about signing up, I never have. The people just come by and present their MoviePass credit card and it gets treated like any other credit card. So those not taking credit cards are out of the game.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-09-2018, 02:16 PM:

I guess the question is really, how do we get listed on their website? Doesn't the MP app have to interface with the theater some way to get ticket price, seat availability, etc?

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 01-09-2018, 02:28 PM:

CONTACT US

quote:
For support and general inquiries - Create a support ticket
For investors - investors@moviepass.com
For business development - bizdev@moviepass.com
For business information - info@moviepass.com
For exhibitor information - exhibitors@moviepass.com
For marketing information - marketing@moviepass.com
For corporate sales information - corporatesales@moviepass.com
For jobs - jobs@moviepass.com

Looks like exhibitors@moviepass.com is the one that you want.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 01-09-2018, 02:47 PM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
I guess the question is really, how do we get listed on their website? Doesn't the MP app have to interface with the theater some way to get ticket price, seat availability, etc?

They'll be using a combination of information they buy from a few providers that keep track of movie showtimes across the country, combined with their own harvesting from public showtimes published by theaters. There's a lot you can grab from public websites.

Also, they don't guarantee you any seats at all. You still need to reserve your seat at the theater. You cannot buy a ticket on-line as it would defeat their application.

In order to be able to pay with the credit card they provide, they use the app, which verifies your GPS location. If that's close to the theater, it will allow payments of roughly up to the advertised ticket price. To avoid abuse, they'll most likely automatically block certain kind of transactions like those from the ATM or supermarket across the street.

So, in order for it to work with your theater, you need to be in their database. If you're not in there, it's probably because they didn't find you yet or getting your showtimes reliably posted into their database was too big of a hassle. If you want to be in there, then exhibitors@moviepass.com seems to be the way to contact them about those matters.

Posted by Sam Graham (Member # 2889) on 01-10-2018, 11:04 AM:

quote: Marcel Birgelen
In order to be able to pay with the credit card they provide, they use the app, which verifies your GPS location. If that's close to the theater, it will allow payments of roughly up to the advertised ticket price. To avoid abuse, they'll most likely automatically block certain kind of transactions like those from the ATM or supermarket across the street.

Specifically, it authorizes one transaction "swipe" on your debit card.

I read some reviews on the Costco website (who sell MoviePass combined with a streaming subscription to something called Fandor for $89.99/year) and it's way more bother than I'd ever care to deal with.

1. You "check-in" (open the app within 100 yards of the theatre). Apparently this includes choosing a movie and showtime. If you choose one and go to the box office only to discover that movie is sold out, you need to cancel the check-in and choose another show. So somehow, they need access to your showtimes.

2. You have 30 minutes from the check-in to complete the transaction.

3. Same-day tickets only. No purchasing advance tickets, even at the box office.

4. You're not allowed to see the same movie more than once, even on different days.

The app is allegedly buggy. Several complaints of the check-in part failing, leaving people who made the trip out in the cold. Could be a regular problem if your theatre is in a crappy cell coverage area.

Customer service is non-existent.

Probably the biggest complaint is the app only manages a single membership, so if you and your spouse each have a membership, you have to each download the app on your own phones and purchase tickets separately.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 01-10-2018, 11:37 AM:

Does it work without a cell phone, or is gathering GPS data via the app part of the business model (such as it is)?

Posted by Andrew Thomas (Member # 7000) on 01-10-2018, 01:15 PM:

We have cheap give away bags from Sams for the people who ask for them. I’d guess less than 20% of our customers request them.

Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 01-10-2018, 01:39 PM:

It is my understanding that the app is required so that MoviePass knows you are in or very near the theatre via GPS, so their computer knows to authorize the ticket purchase.

For the life of me, I don't understand why a theatre owner (or circuit) would care if a patron uses MoviePass. They are getting their full boxoffice price. As to cheapening the public's perceived value of movie going, I think that is nonsense. The public already thinks movies are overpriced, but those who make movie going choices solely based price tend to stay home and wait for Netflix to send them a DVD.

There is ample evidence, even here on Film-Tech discussions, that price alone does not drive attendance. If it did, there would be a lot of crappy theatres doing a whole lot better, and a lot of state of the art venues doing a whole lot worse.

Yes, MoviePass's current business model is unsustainable. Regardless of any back end deals they strike to sell demographics or deals with exhibitors, they will eventually have to raise their prices. At that time, they will lose subscribers depending upon whether the new higher price is still considered a value by a given subscriber.

Posted by Sam Graham (Member # 2889) on 01-10-2018, 03:14 PM:

quote: Mitchell Dvoskin
It is my understanding that the app is required so that MoviePass knows you are in or very near the theatre via GPS, so their computer knows to authorize the ticket purchase.

Correct. It is required.

Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 01-12-2018, 04:00 AM:

quote: Sam Graham
3. Same-day tickets only. No purchasing advance tickets, even at the box office.

i don't know what it says in the terms, but the other day i sold a ticket to someone for a show the next day, and the moviepass card worked.

Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 01-12-2018, 03:13 PM:

Carl, I have no idea regarding MoviePass's terms of service, but there is no way for them to know what you are purchasing, as long as the GPS tells them you are purchasing at the selected theatre. As long as you do not exceed the published ticket price that MoviePass authorized, you could be buying concessions for they know.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-14-2018, 03:40 AM:

Bottom line is: If the patron can choose a different feature than what was chosen using his MP card, that's is business and also could face fines from MP doing this practice.

Yet, the ONE BIG ISSUE that can easily come from these MP folks is the potential case of FRAUD: Stealing cash out of your boxoffice tills:

The patron has to leave, hates the film, and the similar where he wants a refund...

....You simply can't refund back on the card since there was no money to refund back in the first place.

The money on the card wasn't the patrons in the first place. Money came from MP.

If you give cash back for a MP purchase, that person actually stole out of your cash drawer what wasn't his.

Thus, the patron gets a re-ad or a pass in its place. The mgr is going to have to be firm with the box employees on this, for otherwise the cash drawers will be terribly short.

thx _Monte

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 01-14-2018, 08:39 AM:

quote: Monte L Fullmer
Bottom line is: If the patron can choose a different feature than what was chosen using his MP card, that's is business and also could face fines from MP doing this practice.

The only one that could possibly face "fines" is the patron, because he or she is cheating the system. Also, I doubt they will handle out fines, they will simply terminate the subscription if they suspect fraud. Still, it's pretty hard to impossible to check for MoviePass whether or not the patron actually bought the ticket for the show he booked through the app. The patron could also simply come up with an excuse: I decided not to go to see that movie anyway, so I bought a ticket for a show tomorrow. Big deal? Nobody lost anything, did they?

quote: Monte L Fullmer
The patron has to leave, hates the film, and the similar where he wants a refund...

....You simply can't refund back on the card since there was no money to refund back in the first place.

First of all, the money from the ticket came from the MoviePass credit card, which works mostly like all other pre-paid credit cards.

I'm not even sure if it's impossible to do a refund on a MoviePass card. Even I can do a refund on a credit card. Maybe MoviePass blocked the feature, but if there's one feature I wouldn't want to block, then it's the "refund" option.

quote: Monte L Fullmer
The money on the card wasn't the patrons in the first place. Money came from MP.

If you give cash back for a MP purchase, that person actually stole out of your cash drawer what wasn't his.

That isn't your problem, isn't it? The customer showed up at your doorstep with a valid method of payment. It was given to your customer in good faith by MoviePass.

If the customer wants a refund and is eligible for a refund, then you give them the refund. MoviePass is no party for you in this transaction. If the patron is required to reimburse the refund to MoviePass, then it's between them and your customer.

quote: Monte L Fullmer
Thus, the patron gets a re-ad or a pass in its place. The mgr is going to have to be firm with the box employees on this, for otherwise the cash drawers will be terribly short.

It's not really a get-rich-quick scheme, unless you manage to gather a few hundreds of those movie passes and have people all over the country trying to defraud MoviePass out of their money.

If the same guys end up at the information desk over and over again, asking for a refund, I guess their scheme is clear. You politely ask them to stay away from now on or you'll call the police. But besides some transaction fees and maybe some cash in the drawer, the movie theater isn't really losing anything here.

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 01-15-2018, 10:29 AM:

The customer can't get a refund, they didn't pay for the ticket. If they want a pass I guess that's fine as they paid for a movie a day, but (to follow the rules) they would have to use it the same day.
I think they're screwed if they want to go to a different cinema as they've had their movie for the day.
And if passes are allowed they can pass out one day and use it for a companion another day?
Just another snafu in a business plan that makes no sense. It's like buying something for $10.00 and selling it for $1.00...
Someone came up with a proposal and got it startup financing. They are living high as that funding drains away, then it will go bust... but they had a sweet few months of luxury. Think Juicero.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 01-15-2018, 03:45 PM:

quote: Dave Macaulay
The customer can't get a refund, they didn't pay for the ticket. If they want a pass I guess that's fine as they paid for a movie a day, but (to follow the rules) they would have to use it the same day.

Why not?

- Customer shows up at the information desk with a valid, fully paid ticket and asks for a refund.
- Optional step 1: Employee might ask for a receipt, maybe because the ticket doesn't list if it was bought using some discount program not eligible for a refund.
- Optional step 2: Patron produces a receipt that states it was paid in full by Credit Card. The receipt doesn't show it was paid using a MoviePass.
- Employee identifies patron is eligible and pays the refund to the patron.

So, I thought, let's check the very vague Terms of Service of MoviePass if said patron is actually allowed to do so. Their terms are very vague and mention all kinds of stuff they're not doing. It's more like they copied the Netflix terms of service and added a few lines of their own.

This might be the relevant passage:
2.14. You may use MoviePass Card to purchase a 2D movie ticket at a theater kiosk. You may not use MoviePass Card for any other purpose, including but not limited to, unauthorized purchases or purchases exceeding the value of a single movie ticket. MoviePass allows for a single valid transaction for a movie theater ticket. You acknowledge and agree that all funds on your MoviePass Card are the property of MoviePass. You do not have the right to stop payment on any transactions made with MoviePass. Your MoviePass Card is valid through the Valid Thru date printed on the MoviePass Card, except in states where prohibited by law. No reproduction will be accepted. MoviePass is non-refundable and non-transferable. If your MoviePass Card is lost or stolen, please contact MoviePass Customer Support immediately. There will be a $10 replacement fee charged to the payment method that you provided to us.
Source

The non-refundable part is about the pass and subscription fee itself, not about the actual transactions.

So, the current terms and services don't even seem to exclude the possibility of the patron asking for a refund for a ticket they bought with the funds of MoviePass. It also leaves the ownership of the refunded money up in the stars. It probably still belongs to MoviePass, but it's not explicitly claimed so in the terms and services.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 01-15-2018, 09:02 PM:

Some time ago, we worried about the possibility a customer could purchase tickets with his card, then come back pre-show and ask for a cash refund, then contest the credit card purchase.

After fussing over that scenario for a while, I asked RTS to put a notation on the serial number line that simply says "Credit", if the ticket is purchased with a card.

With that in hand, we can easily see that the customer used SOME sort of credit card. We don't have to care which one, but we now require a card for any refund on a ticket with that notation.

I suppose a creative type could buy a ticket with MP, then turn around and present a personal card for his refund. That could probably be seen as a fraud of some sort, but at least the theatre wouldn't be holding the bag.

And as for fraud... maybe?? MP did their job and got you the ticket. They get to notch you up in their stats for the purchase. Maybe you used the theatre to pluck $10 bucks that really wasn't yours in the first place, but you didn't actually watch the show.

Maybe you've defrauded the theatre out of some labor time... not sure what kind of case there'd be though.

Geez... for $10? Well... a dedicated sort could pull off $310 on a given month. Maybe that would go for a while, until the computers at MP picked up the pattern.

Wouldn't put it past someone to actually try it though...

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 01-15-2018, 10:44 PM:

Over the last week or so I have seen a noticeable increase in the number of people using Movie Pass. As expected users are frequently going to see movies which are not what you would expect them to watch. I hate to hint at profiling, but anyone who has worked at a theatre long enough can usually tell who is going to what movie when they walk in the door.

As I mentioned before, many of the Movie Pass users are not spending money at the snack bar. And those who do require some education to let them know they need to purchase their tickets independently and separately from the snacks. Cashiers could always do split tender transactions, but I feel it creates too much room for error. Especially if something goes wrong, which could prevent you from charging the ticket to the card.

Movie Pass may require users to check in and identify the movie and showing they are going to see, but there is absolutely no way for them to verify which movie the customer is actually buying a ticket for. The credit card verification does not send any transaction detail to the card and theatres are not providing any transaction information to them.

There is absolutely nothing preventing the customer from checking in for Jumanji and then going to see Insidious. If the customer checks in for one movie but arrives to find it sold out then they can easily go see something different. There is nothing preventing the user from purchasing a ticket ahead of time - either the same day or for a future date - so long as they are purchasing for a show with the same ticket price. In fact, it would be relatively easy for someone to get 2 tickets for a show by simply buying one the day ahead of time and checking in for a different show the day they are going.

Basically any enforcement of the MP policies are dependent on the honesty of the user and theatre cashier. Since theatres have not entered into any kind of agreement with MP I see no reason for us to treat the MP card any differently from any other credit/debit/gift card a customer might present. I don't see any reason for us to go out of our way to adhere to policies which we have not been made aware of or agreed to enforce.

If enforcement of their policies is important for MP, one thing they could do is have customers take a picture of their ticket with the app.

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 01-15-2018, 11:50 PM:

Moviepass has nothing to do with me here since I'm not in the USA and I don't take credit cards, but:

Taking a picture of their ticket wouldn't be of much value in a theatre like mine -- All of my tickets just say ADMIT ONE.

Or is my theatre the last one in the world to use simple roll tickets?

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 01-16-2018, 01:12 AM:

Taking a picture as proof of your purchase could indeed be used as a means for MoviePass to reduce fraud. Even if it's not automatically scanned, it could be used as evidence in cases where fraud or abuse is suspected. Then again, why should we come up with ideas for their problems? [Razz]

quote: Frank Cox
Taking a picture of their ticket wouldn't be of much value in a theatre like mine -- All of my tickets just say ADMIT ONE.

Or is my theatre the last one in the world to use simple roll tickets?

If you don't sell tickets for certain shows in advance and running just a single screen, then I guess generic "Admit One" tickets are both retro and sufficient. [Wink]

I've not seen them in quite a while, even the single screens I've visited in the past years had some kind of ticketing in place that printed out tickets that stated the name, date and time of the show.

Posted by David Buckley (Member # 2600) on 01-16-2018, 04:04 PM:

quote: Jack Ondracek
Some time ago, we worried about the possibility a customer could purchase tickets with his card, then come back pre-show and ask for a cash refund, then contest the credit card purchase.

I know we're in different countries, but where I live, the credit card companies require that all card refunds go back to the card. I believe it is because if you buy goods on a credit card and then refund the goods for cash, you're effectively getting a cash advance from the credit card company; they are very happy to give cash out, but cash advances on cards don't have an interest free period, hence the contractual grumpiness. Quite apart from the chargeback risk to the merchant you've identified.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-17-2018, 12:11 AM:

quote: Marcel Birgelen
I've not seen them in quite a while, even the single screens I've visited in the past years had some kind of ticketing in place that printed out tickets that stated the name, date and time of the show.

We used roll tickets for a long time, then around the end of the '80s I wrote a "BASIC" program that kept track of the ticket numbers but didn't print actual tickets. Then I found out that we were "required" to keep the printed tickets on hand, so we switched over to RTS sometime in the late '90s. In 87 years we've never had a studio audit that I know of, but we still keep boxfuls of old tickets going back two or three years.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-18-2018, 03:23 PM:

If one really wants to know how MP works, go on their website and read the "300 page" manual on the do's and dont's of this service.

Basically, the cardholder is using someone elses money and it all has to be in correct order. Otherwise, a fine or termination will result.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 01-18-2018, 05:44 PM:

quote: David Buckley
I know we're in different countries, but where I live, the credit card companies require that all card refunds go back to the card. I believe it is because if you buy goods on a credit card and then refund the goods for cash, you're effectively getting a cash advance from the credit card company; they are very happy to give cash out, but cash advances on cards don't have an interest free period, hence the contractual grumpiness. Quite apart from the chargeback risk to the merchant you've identified.

The contract we have with our processor doesn't explicitly require this, but they do advice to do all refunds via a charge-back of the actual transaction, because else you're incurring the risk of a "double-refund" if the customer asks for a charge-back of said transaction.

Now, if you're doing tons of small transactions, it's often hard to find just the appropriate credit card transaction, especially if this process isn't automated in your PoS system. That's most likely why cash refunds are pretty common, at least around here, but I've also gotten cash refunds on C.C. transactions in the U.S.

quote: Mike Blakesley
We used roll tickets for a long time, then around the end of the '80s I wrote a "BASIC" program that kept track of the ticket numbers but didn't print actual tickets. Then I found out that we were "required" to keep the printed tickets on hand, so we switched over to RTS sometime in the late '90s. In 87 years we've never had a studio audit that I know of, but we still keep boxfuls of old tickets going back two or three years.

BASIC, those were the years. [Wink]

Well, it's interesting, the contracts I've dealt with, never actually stated that you need to keep a copy of the ticket, just a watertight administration of the admissions (not even actual tickets) you sold. Obviously, they don't really like if you roll your own software to so. [Wink]

The only audits that I've seen is just sending them some tabulations/reports regarding your ticket sales in a certain period and some proof from your accountant to back those numbers up. I guess they will only start nitpicking if those numbers don't seem to add up.

quote: Monte L Fullmer
If one really wants to know how MP works, go on their website and read the "300 page" manual on the do's and dont's of this service.

Basically, the cardholder is using someone elses money and it all has to be in correct order. Otherwise, a fine or termination will result.

I didn't do a deep search of their site, but then, there isn't all that much on there. If you sign-up for one of their passes, the only terms of service they provide are those I've already linked. They're by no means 300 pages and I've outlined the potential problem with them.

MoviePass can't refer to a hidden "300 page" manual, if they fail to provide information on where to find it and therefore I've never even had the possibility to read it.

So, where is this "300 page" manual? I'd really like to, at least, take a look at it.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-18-2018, 10:11 PM:

My guess is he was exaggerating about the 300 pages.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-24-2018, 01:25 PM:

Yes, I'm exaggerating on the page count, but it's still a lengthy rules section.

UPDATE: The first fraud case popped up with MP at a Regal Cinema:

Heard buzz that 10 kids with MP cards bought tix for an evening performance during the day. Hour before they show was to begin, those 10 kids went back to the location and asked for refunds in CASH, in which they did receive. Those evening tix were over twelve bucks apiece.

Now, you think of it: you get someone that does that three times a week and get away with it, in that one month that one person can make some serious pocket money - by stealing from both the location and MP themselves.

Recommending that locations program their registers with a key designated for MP so the tix can be flagged and labeled "no cash refunds."

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-24-2018, 02:21 PM:

No "cash" refunds? How about no refund period. You sold the ticket to Movie Pass. Let Movie Pass refund them. Oh wait, they paid a flat rate for UP TO one movie a day. There is nothing to refund there either.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-24-2018, 03:37 PM:

^ True. Someone went into the negative on this one.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 01-24-2018, 04:28 PM:

So, who lost out--the theatre or Movie Pass?

Posted by Andrew Thomas (Member # 7000) on 01-24-2018, 05:01 PM:

quote: Scott Norwood
So, who lost out--the theatre or Movie Pass?

The theater lost whatever the credit card transaction fee was since they didn't refund to the card. MP didn't lose anything beyond what they normally do when somebody buys a ticket with the service.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-24-2018, 05:48 PM:

Seems to me, if anybody should get a refund, it should be MoviePass, because they're the ones who are out the 12 bucks for the unused ticket, not the customer.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-24-2018, 05:53 PM:

^ in which that is what the MP cardholder should do if a refund is needed - to have the cinema refund the charge back on the MP card, then the cardholder takes a snap of the refund slip to send it to MP to get the credit.

That way MP knows their money is back on their card.

Posted by Travis Cape (Member # 466) on 01-24-2018, 07:07 PM:

I'm surprised that Regal would give a cash refund on a CC purchase in general.

Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 01-25-2018, 10:04 AM:

Are these things actual credit cards (or Visa Debit or equivalents)?

Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 01-25-2018, 11:14 AM:

MoviePass is a debit card.

Most venues around here either indicate on the ticket the original payment source or provide a separate receipt for the purchase. They will only refund debit/credit purchases back to the original card, and if they issue separate receipts, they require the receipt. Otherwise, they just issue a pass for a future show.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 01-25-2018, 11:16 AM:

If Movie Pass paid the theatre, how did the theatre lose (other than in the form of tranaction fees)? Or was it treated as a chargeback, where the theatre would get nothing?

In any case, I agree that it is uncommon for businesses to give cash refunds for purchases made by credit card.

Posted by Mark Ogden (Member # 43) on 01-25-2018, 05:09 PM:

MoviePass yoinks coverage at some major market AMCs.

EXCLUSIVE: In a surprise twist for MoviePass . . . some of the monthly movie ticket’s subscribers learned today that their app and cards no longer work at certain AMC venues, i.e. the Empire 25 in New York City.

From what Deadline has gathered, it’s not AMC turning off the spigot, rather it appears to be coming from the MoviePass side. The MoviePass debit Master Card is accepted by any and all venues that are listed on the ticket agency’s mobile app. Essentially, MoviePass will no longer cover ticket purchases at certain big market AMC theaters such as the Empire 25 in NYC, the Universal City Walk, AMC Loews Boston Common and the AMC Century Plaza. It’s not as though MoviePass won’t work at other AMC venues. Note, MoviePass doesn’t cover ArcLight Cinemas, Landmark Theateres or iPic, and that doesn’t have to do with the exhibitor, but largely the high ticket price point of these theaters, and what MoviePass is willing to cover.

CEO Mitch Lowe issued the following statement about the latest MoviePass outage as many took to Twitter to complain: “As of today, you’ll find a small handful of theaters are no longer available on our platform. Our number one goal as a company is to provide an accessible price-point for people to enjoy films the way they’re meant to be seen: on the big screen. Many exhibitors have been receptive to this mission, and we’re excited to keep working with theater chains that are closely aligned with our customer service values. As we continue to strive for mutually-beneficial relationships with theaters, the list of theaters we work with is subject to change. We advise customers to always double check the MoviePass app for the most up-to-date list of participating theaters.”

MoviePass insiders have informed Deadline that the movie ticket service covers over $2M in ticket sales weekly to AMC.

When reached for comment, AMC would not return calls.

Some of our guests say MoviePass may be blocking the use of their service at a handful of AMC locations. AMC has not restricted MoviePass acceptance at our theatres, nor have we heard from MoviePass about this. MoviePass customers should contact MoviePass for clarification.

Since MoviePass’ relaunch late last summer, the movie ticket agency has had rocky relationship with AMC. Initially, the world’s largest exhibitor tried to block MoviePass, but came around to accepting them. AMC CEO Adam Aron said in a November earnings conference call, “”MoviePass paid AMC, according to our records, $11.88 for each and every ticket that it purchased for our mutual guest. That’s quite a gap, $9.95 a month versus $11.88 a visit. I must point out that’s very gracious of them and we appreciate their business, but I think it’s also important to make clear that despite claims they’ve made to the contrary, AMC has absolutely no intention, I repeat no intention, of sharing any – I repeat, any, of our admissions revenue or our concessions revenue with MoviePass.”

Earlier today, MarketWatch announced, that MoviePass parent company Helios & Matheson Analytics Inc. filed a $400M shelf registration with the SEC on Thursday. In its filing, the company said it will, “from time to time” sell in one or more offerings up to $400M in any combination of stock, preferred stock, warrants, units and subscription rights. HMNY closed at $8.93 today, -2.4%. Current market cap on HMNY is just over $214M.

*****

All the theaters mentioned are very popular and high grossing. I wonder if MoviePass is trying to slow their losses by restricting use to smaller and less popular sites.

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 01-25-2018, 05:34 PM:

Shipping $2 million a week off to AMC without matching revenue would put quite a strain on any business. Plus whatever they pay to the other theatres on top of that.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-25-2018, 07:12 PM:

If one reads the terms and conditions on their website, it looks like MP is selling the subscribers info to advertisers where the payments from the advertisers would be making up the payments to the venues.

Kinda reminds me of an MLM with an upside down pyramid.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-26-2018, 06:04 PM:

So, they DO want to discount ticket prices (especially for independents?! WTF is that?) and they DO want a slice of the concessions, "eventually."

MoviePass Escalates AMC War as CEO Answers Critics

It could be all-out war between AMC and MoviePass, the service offering a movie ticket per day for just $9.95 a month.

"Since the get-go, AMC has not been interested in collaborating with MoviePass — a move that is not in the interest of our subscribers and AMC theater-goers," said Ted Farnsworth, CEO of MoviePass parent Helios and Matheson Analytics on Friday.

MoviePass pays full price for the tickets it buys its subs, but said Friday it has excluded 10 AMC theaters. "We already know in past testing that MoviePass subscribers are not theater-loyal; they're happy to drive by a theater that may be closer to a theater that will accept MoviePass," said Farnsworth, who maintains that MoviePass could generate $34.4 million of gross profit for AMC in the upcoming quarter.

MoviePass CEO Mitch Lowe, who knows a thing or two about potentially disruptive businesses, given he was also on the ground floor of both Netflix and Redbox, answered his detractors in a Q&A with The Hollywood Reporter.

Hollywood Reporter: Beyond today's statement from Farnsworth, what’s the latest in AMC’s threat of legal action to opt out of your service?

Lowe: Well, you haven’t heard anything since their earnings call a few months ago when they basically said they’re happy to take our money, we just can’t figure out how they’ll make money. That’s a far cry from August when they said they want to figure out how they won’t have to take MoviePass. I spend literally millions of dollars buying AMC tickets and my subscribers spend twice what they were spending for concessions at AMC at 80 percent margins. I’d think at this point, if you were a good businessman, you’d be thrilled to take our money.

HR: How much are you losing per subscriber?

Lowe: We don’t reveal that, but you’d be shocked how little it is. In the near future, we’ll be sharing those numbers, and it’s going down — the longer a subscriber subscribes, the fewer movies they see in a month. Also, we started out getting a lot of heavy moviegoers, the 11 percent of the country who were seeing 18 or more movies a year, and now we’re getting more of the average moviegoer who sees four-and-a-half movies a year.

HR: If they’re seeing fewer than a movie a month, why do they bother subscribing?

Lowe: That’s a perfect question. They tell us they’re sick and tired of wasting their money on a bad film and MoviePass is like insurance: They know they risk a bad movie and even walk out early, trash it, and not feel like they wasted their money. They also like a fixed fee, so they can see five movies in December that are nominated for Golden Globes, then not see any in January, and see more when the Oscar nominations come out.

HR: You say marketing movies is a path to profitability. But when one of your subs go to a movie you market, it costs you the price of a ticket, almost $10. How is that a good thing for MoviePass?

Lowe: We’re collecting on average $2 from a studio to market their film and ultimately we’ll be getting a $2 discount from most exhibitors and eventually we’ll be getting $2-$3 in increased concession sales. I know many say they don’t want to do that, but when we partner with a theater giving us a 20 percent discount, subscribers go to that theater four times more often than they did before and spend twice as much on concessions. We’ll also be selling advertising.

HR: Do you have any big theater chains splitting revenue with you yet?

Lowe: We have about 1,000 screens that give us a discount and we just signed our fourth studio contract. The names are confidential, but subscribers will see the promotions.

HR: Any theaters splitting concession revenue?

Lowe: No, but we don’t quite have the technology to make that work. Our subscriber would have to pick their concessions within the app and it would have to be integrated at the point of sale, and we haven’t built that yet.

HR: You mentioned both marketing and advertising. What’s the difference between marketing and selling ads?

Lowe: Advertising meaning banner ads within our application, not just for movies, for anything. We signed a deal two weeks ago with iHeart Media. They’ve become our non-exclusive reseller of advertising on our app and our site.

HR: You also said selling data is a path to profitability. What data do you have that the studio marketers do not have?

Lowe: It’s not so much selling the data as using it. For example, we know the moment you walk out of Star Wars that you’re emotionally charged and we know where you are, and we could hypothetically sell you all the previous Star Wars with a click, or tell you there’s a restaurant across the street where you’ll get a free appetizer with your MoviePass app.

HR: Have you done that with any films yet?

Lowe: We tested and got between 1-4 percent purchase rates without any discounts.

HR: Did you test it with the permission of the studio?

Lowe: Why would we need their permission?

HR: I don’t know. What movie did you test it on?

Lowe: Three or four months ago and I don’t remember the title.

HR: How long before you’re profitable?

Lowe: We figure between 3 million and 4 million subscribers.

HR: What other initiatives are in the works to monetize your business?

Lowe: Those are the big ones. We’re signing five contracts a week with independent theaters where we get a lower cost on tickets and that will ultimately lead to a piece of concession sales, and we have a team in L.A. striking deals with studios.

HR: How much cash do you have?

Lowe: Plenty.

HR: Is there a point when you’ll just not be able to afford more subs because you’re buying them too many tickets?

Lowe: No. I don’t know why everybody believes that our customers are watching so many movies. At some point we’ll share more data with you and you’ll be shocked. In the meantime we’re investing for the future and our subscribers are going to the movies twice as much as they did before.

HR: But when you say things like that it seems to indicate they’re going more than once a month, and that’s all it takes for you to lose money, no?

Lowe: The primary subscriber is one of the 200 million people who see four-and-a-half movies a year and when you double four-and-a-half you get to nine, and that’s three quarters of a movie a month.

HR: If you’re going to be marketing films to people and your whole pitch is that they’ll see more films, then what happens when your average subscriber is seeing two films a month?

Lowe: If that happens for any length of time there will be a lot of people who benefit and they’ll have to decide: do they want us to continue to do this and will they share a small portion of their incremental profit?

HR: Is there a point where you’ll need to raise the price of a sub?

Lowe: We don’t need to raise the price. I spent a year studying how I can get people who spend $50 a year going to movies to spend $120 a year, and $9.95 is the price point that gets them into the theaters more often.

HR: Is there a point where you’ll need to restrict tickets to off hours, like weekdays and matinees only?

Lowe: I don’t know why we’d need to do that, because that happens to be the primary way our subscribers use the service. They know it’s not a luxury product and they may not get a seat on opening weekend because with MoviePass you can’t reserve a seat until you get to the theater. So our subscribers naturally go after opening weekend and during the week and during the day. That’s a byproduct of the way the service works. You can’t expect all the bells and whistles, and theaters like that because we’re filling seats that would go empty.

HR: What’s your answer to the claim by AMC and others that your service devalues the moviegoing experience by making it dirt cheap?

Lowe: How are we making it dirt cheap when we’re taking someone who only spent $50 a year on movies and getting them to spend $120? It’s almost un-American to think that their method is the right one. Their method is, every year 3 percent fewer people go to the movies, so we’re going to raise prices. That’s a dead end. They’ll do what they’re already doing, which is drive people to streaming.

HR: Walk me through the mechanics of being a user.

Lowe: You sign up and we send you a MasterCard debit card that has no value and you then upload our app that lets you click on the movie you want to see and the theater and showtime. You will click “check in” when you get 100 yards from the box office and that card will become good for 30 minutes at that theater only with enough credit to buy one ticket, and you can do that once a day.

HR: Is there a way to troubleshoot if it’s not working when I get to a theater?

Lowe: Like any service, we can have problems with the internet, but we’re in the process of rolling out live phone help. But the theaters we do partnerships with, like Studio Movie Grill, you don’t use your card because a barcode comes up on your phone.

HR: Are you considered one of the founders at Netflix?

Lowe: Technically, I’m a co-founding executive. I hired Ted Sarandos. I owned a chain of 10 video stores in Northern California and he was my rep. When Reed Hastings wanted me to move to L.A. and run content, I couldn’t do it so I talked Ted into joining.

HR: You regret not taking the chief content role at Netflix, which has made Sarandos very rich?

Lowe: Well, I got plenty rich, but I couldn’t have done anywhere near the job that Ted has done. I love movies and content, but Ted’s just a genius. Three years later I was recruited by McDonald’s which had this crazy idea that if you put movie kiosks in their restaurants they’d sell burgers and fries when you had to return the movies, and that’s when Gregg Kaplan and I founded Redbox, funded by McDonald’s.

HR: What’s one more thing you want consumers to understand about MoviePass?

Lowe: It’s a way to see all those great movies you want to see in theaters that you’d normally wait for on video, and it’s the same price as Netflix.

HR: What’s one thing you’d like to say to put the movie industry at ease?

Lowe: That I’m a big believer in seeing movies at theaters and want nothing more than to make the entire ecosystem healthier and stronger. There’s nothing else out there that has had a more positive influence on theaters than MoviePass.

HR article

EDIT: I don't know why the URL above isn't displaying as a link like usual -- I followed the same procedure as always for posting a link and tried it 3 times.

[ 02-01-2018, 11:18 PM: Message edited by: Adam Martin ]

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 01-26-2018, 06:24 PM:

The one point I'll make is I disagree about increased concession sales. So far the average MoviePass customer is purchasing fewer concessions than the average customer. Those who are purchasing concessions are only buying what would be typical of the average customer - a drink and a popcorn.

I'm curious to know if those contracts are going to have out clauses if reality doesn't match the reality they are pushing.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-26-2018, 07:10 PM:

I think people spend what they spend, for the most part. There might be people who buy a candy bar when they wouldn't have before, but he's saying "twice as much" concession spend? I don't think so. I doubt many people are going "Wow, I got in 'free,' I should buy two large combos instead of one!"

Posted by Brent Barnhart (Member # 10321) on 01-26-2018, 08:15 PM:

I’m thinking he’s meaning that the customer comes in Twice as much so that’s twice the concession sales than before.
In theory.

Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 01-27-2018, 04:01 PM:

The Verge had an article that referenced the Deadline article about AMC and MoviePass, and the final paragraph hit the nail on the head in my opinion:

quote:
MoviePass isn’t trying to help movie theaters; it’s trying to use them to capture data it can sell. It isn’t trying to help people see more movies out of some altruistic bent; it’s hoping to spike attendance in the short term so it can expand the pool of people whose data it’s collecting. And when it doesn’t get the answers it likes from a chain like AMC, it’s willing to cut those theaters out completely, regardless of the harm that does to its customers or reputation. While a $9.95 subscription deal may sound great, it’s really only a good deal if it works consistently, at the theaters where customers want to use it. And as MoviePass’ CEO said, those theaters are subject to change.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/25/16934344/moviepass-amc-theaters-support-tickets

quote:
MoviePass pulls support from popular AMC theaters

MoviePass and the AMC Theatres chain have never exactly enjoyed a rosy relationship, and the latest step in their conflict came today, as MoviePass pulled support from some of the chain’s most high-profile locations. Deadline reports that the service is no longer supporting ticket purchases at theaters like the AMC Empire 25 in New York, Universal City Walk near Los Angeles, and the AMC Loews Boston Common.

“As of today, you’ll find a small handful of theaters are no longer available on our platform,” MoviePass CEO Mitch Lowe said in a statement. “Our number one goal as a company is to provide an accessible price-point for people to enjoy films the way they’re meant to be seen: on the big screen. Many exhibitors have been receptive to this mission, and we’re excited to keep working with theater chains that are closely aligned with our customer service values.” The statement goes on to clarify that the list of participating theaters is subject to change, and MoviePass customers should consult the mobile app for updates to that list.

AMC and MoviePass have been publicly at odds since the subscription service drastically cut its monthly subscription price in August 2017. (The company previously relied on a tiered model that scaled monthly pricing from $15 to $50 based on region, much like movie ticket prices can vary from one locale to another.) AMC responded by threatening to drop out of MoviePass’ deal, and potentially even file a lawsuit. The chain’s logic has been straightforward, however: mass adoption of a subscription service like MoviePass could effectively change the perceived value of movies, resulting in a situation where theatrical exhibitors wouldn’t be able to charge enough to keep their own businesses afloat.

“AMC also believes that promising essentially unlimited first-run movie content at a price below $10 per month over time will not provide sufficient revenue to operate quality theaters, nor will it produce enough income to provide filmmakers with sufficient incentive to make great new movies,” the company said in August.

What’s interesting about today’s development is that MoviePass reportedly didn’t notify AMC or its own customers ahead of time. In fact, AMC’s own support account on Twitter wrote earlier today that MoviePass still has not contacted the chain about the development. Given the public rancor between the two companies, it seems likely that MoviePass made the change quietly as a bit of hardball negotiation, hoping customers would become angry with the theater chain and blame it for the problem. On social media, that appears to be exactly what’s happened. But in reality, the tactic could easily backfire on MoviePass, as customers realize they can’t trust the company to consistently provide access to their favorite theaters. Presenting MoviePass access as arbitrary and subject to political maneuvering is hardly a consumer-friendly tactic.
"MoviePass customers may suddenly find that it no longer supports their favorite theater"

It’s been clear for some time that MoviePass isn’t simply trying to find ways to bring more people into existing movie theaters. The subscription-price reduction came after MoviePass sold a majority stake to the data firm Helios and Matheson Analytics, Inc., and the change has allowed the company to jump from around 20,000 subscribers to 1.5 million subscribers as of January 2018. MoviePass’ ability to track what movies its customers are watching, and where they’re buying tickets, is valuable data for marketers, advertisers, and distributors. And Lowe has said that selling that data is a major way that MoviePass is going to make money. Not having access to AMC — the largest theater chain in both the United States and the entire world — could make achieving that goal more difficult, since it would be clear MoviePass’ data would be incomplete. There are good reasons AMC was the first chain MoviePass signed a deal with, and that importance is likely why MoviePass is being so aggressive around AMC now.

MoviePass is already trying to add revenue streams past its data-driven approach. The company has been heavily promoting movies like I, Tonya and Forever My Girl to its users, clearly as part of a paid promotional package. And before 2018’s Sundance Film Festival, the company announced it had spun up a division that will actually acquire movies, then use a traditional distribution company to get them into theaters. During Sundance, it partnered with distributor The Orchard to purchase North American distribution rights for Bart Layton’s American Animals for $3 million, giving the company the opportunity to create a closed loop with a captive audience: it can own part of a movie that it then promotes to its own customers, driving up the ticket sales that its own subscription service helps generate.

And like most entertainment companies, MoviePass is already looking beyond theatrical exhibition. In November, CEO Mitch Lowe said on CNBC that the company would eventually launch its own streaming service as well. But as MoviePass tries to hardball AMC into going along with its demands, and as it lures in millions of customers by offering increasingly lower ticket prices, it’s important to remember that when something seems too good to be true, it often is.

MoviePass isn’t trying to help movie theaters; it’s trying to use them to capture data it can sell. It isn’t trying to help people see more movies out of some altruistic bent; it’s hoping to spike attendance in the short term so it can expand the pool of people whose data it’s collecting. And when it doesn’t get the answers it likes from a chain like AMC, it’s willing to cut those theaters out completely, regardless of the harm that does to its customers or reputation. While a $9.95 subscription deal may sound great, it’s really only a good deal if it works consistently, at the theaters where customers want to use it. And as MoviePass’ CEO said, those theaters are subject to change.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-27-2018, 08:37 PM:

I saw this in an article on Deadline:

quote:
MoviePass reportedly struck deals with close to 1,000 indie cinemas, in which it gets a $3 cut on ticket sales and/or 25% of concessions sales.

Wellll... if that's the case, then my independent cinema will not be participating.

They got the theaters' cooperation by saying the theaters would get full price for their tickets. Now, out of a $10 ticket, Moviepass wants theaters to give 30% to Moviepass while they're still giving around 55% or more to the studios.... "AND/OR?" (whatever that's supposed to mean) they want 25% of the concessions?

Sounds like they're trying to drag the whole industry down with them.

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 01-27-2018, 10:33 PM:

There's no Moviepass in Canada (yet) so this doesn't have any direct effect on me, but I'm wondering why any independent theatre would pay them that kind of money (or any money at all).

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression that most independents are like me, located in towns where they have no local competition. So why would someone in a non-competitive market pay an outside agency to send customers that would be showing up anyway?

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-28-2018, 12:11 AM:

Well the idea is to make your regular customers go to more movies -- movies they wouldn't otherwise take a chance on. But if we're going to have to give them that big a chunk of our profits, it won't be worth it.

For what it's worth, even with all the publicity MP has been getting, we have yet to have even one person ask about it here.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 01-28-2018, 12:58 AM:

So... it essentially is becoming what I've been pointing out all along. Only that I'm somewhat impressed at the speed this is going forward. They must be pissing a lot of cash away. [Wink]

- Trying to squeeze discounts out of theaters by leveraging their alleged position. That's the reason why certain popular theaters suddenly fall off their list.
- Eventually trying to get to the other juicy bone: your concession sales.
- On top of that, trying to sell their customer data to the highest bidder.

In the meantime, I'm pretty sure they will cause a devaluation of the perceived value of a movie ticket, at least for the heavy users of the system. This whole thing is really no grace for the industry at large, quite the contrary.

The best thing that can happen is that the cash runs out before a new round of funding has occurred and nobody being interested in their toxic ashes.

Posted by Jonathan M. Crist (Member # 413) on 01-29-2018, 05:16 PM:

As Teddy Roosevelt used to say: If you got them by the balls their hearts and minds will follow. And so will their checkbooks:

HOW DOES MOVIEPASS MAKE MONEY? WE'RE STARTING TO FIND OUT

MoviePass has pulled support from some AMC theaters, just one of many signs it's finally serious about making money.

Late last summer, MoviePass introduced a seemingly impossible offer: See a movie every single day in theaters, paying only a monthly fee that, in most markets, amounts to less than a single ticket. It worked. Earlier this month, MoviePass hit 1.5 million subscribers, growing much faster than anyone expected, including MoviePass.

But amassing customers was never going to be the hard part. MoviePass now has to show that it can actually, you know, make money. A little less than six months in, it looks as though it just might have an answer—although a fresh spat with AMC shows that not everyone will like it.
Giving It Away

To be absolutely clear: The more subscribers MoviePass signs up, the more money it loses. It pays theaters full price for each ticket, whether a member visits once or 31 times a month. It has to provide for customer service to support those 1.5 million people, many of whom have lobbed valid complaints—MoviePass issues debit cards to each of its members, and initially couldn't keep up with demand—as the service struggled with its rapid expansion. And that’s on top of the usual, unglamorous costs of running any business. (Backends don’t maintain themselves.) If it seems like MoviePass is too good to be true, that’s because right now, it is.

'It’s a lot more fun to be riding a wild bronco than to be trying to tame a mare.'

MoviePass CEO Mitch Lowe

Which is also why its explosive growth hasn’t been an unvarnished good, at least in the short term. “It’s harder in some respects and easier in others,” says MoviePass CEO Mitch Lowe, who cites the company’s customer service falterings as a primary drawback. There’s also the matter of all the cash the company must have run through by now; Helios and Matheson, an analytics company which has a majority stake in MoviePass, continues to put millions toward keeping the company afloat through the outflow. Analyst Brian Kintsligner of Maxim Group recently wrote that the company had "an estimated seven months of cash" to cover losses incurred by heavy-usage members.

The question, then, might not be whether MoviePass has a long-term plan for success—it's if the company can stick around long enough to see it through.
Su-Su-Studios

Perhaps understandably, Lowe focuses on the opportunities that the MoviePass masses afford him. “It’s a lot more fun to be riding a wild bronco than to be trying to tame a mare,” he says. Besides, for MoviePass, more users means more data, which in turn means more leverage. And leverage is key to Lowe’s goals; sure, he's trying to turn a profit, but he's also fundamentally rethinking the business of going to the movies.

From the start, MoviePass’s most likely allies have been independent studios, the kind for whom an incremental box-office uptick can turn a breakeven investment into a success. Those are the kinds of movies MoviePass subscribers go to, after all; it’s easier to take a flyer on The Shape of Water if the ticket is effectively free. But the challenge for MoviePass isn't merely to demonstrate its value to studios. The company needs to show that it can directly influence subscriber behavior through marketing maneuvers, whether in-app or through email and social media.

It's already scored some demonstrable wins. While 3 percent of all domestic box office gets purchased through MoviePass, the number jumps to 10 percent when MoviePass pushes a product, according to the company’s own tracking. Which has already led to some actual revenue. “We’ve got more than four contracts that are revenue-producing, in the six-figures-type range, for films,” says Lowe of deals in which MoviePass promotes specific movies to its customers. “The studios really do see the light, and see that we could be a valuable ally in rejuvenating the business.”

Lowe argues that the pitch becomes even more compelling as MoviePass continues to grow, projecting that his subscriber base will triple by the end of the summer. At which point, the reasoning goes, the MoviePass Bump would jump in kind, from a six or seven percent incremental lift to something closer to 20 percent.

That kind of value proposition isn't just for indies—it would also grab the attention of the bigger studios. “They’re going to have really approach major studios and show a direct correlation to people going to see movies that they might not have otherwise gone to see,” says Wade Holden, a movie theater industry analyst with S&P Global. “It’s all about them finding unique ways to leverage their service.”

From the start, MoviePass’s most likely allies have been independent studios.

One of those ways materialized late last week, with the launch of MoviePass Ventures, an acquisition wing that aims to co-purchase small films alongside established distributors. The MoviePass team spent the week at Sundance, armed with data about what types of films get his audience to the theater. “It’s not as sophisticated as what Netflix uses, since they have years of data and many, many millions of subscribers,” says Lowe. “But it’s enough indicate to us the types of films that will tend to be more successful.” And it didn't take long for the new venture to jump into the fray: Yesterday, MoviePass announced that it had picked up a heist flick called American Animals.

As a distributor, MoviePass can offer filmmakers something the deep-pocketed streamers often can’t or don’t: A commitment to the big-screen experience, and the potential to maximize the number of people who see it there. (Again: what's the risk, when a ticket is basically free?) This doesn't make MoviePass an altruistic patron of the arts, though; by investing in a movie at the beginning, the company can cash in when it eventually leaves theaters, grabbing a piece of the “downstream” revenue that comes from streaming and digital sales.

But studios and filmmakers aren’t the only partners MoviePass needs to win over to ensure its long-term viability. It needs the theaters on board as well. And to make that happen, it’s willing to play hardball.
Dramatic Measures

When MoviePass’s new plan launched last year, AMC made clear its disdain. The largest theater chain in the US instead described MoviePass as as an existential threat. “That price level is unsustainable and only sets up consumers for ultimate disappointment down the road if or when the product can no longer be fulfilled,” the company harrumphed.

And while AMC can’t block MoviePass from its theaters—those debit cards mean that customers are, for the purposes of AMC's bottom line, paying full price—the service’s long-term outlook depends at least in part on big chains sharing the wealth, in the form of, say, splitting concession stand revenue.

Lowe says independent exhibitors have been more responsive to such arrangements, and that he ultimately thinks MoviePass can survive without buy-in from AMC or Regal (neither of whom would comment for this story). But first, he’s prepared to make it as hard as possible for them to say no.

“The trick is signing up enough independents to where we can start to not show every show or every showtime or every movie at the top three chains,” says Lowe. “We’re spending millions and millions of dollars every week at those top three. Those customers are spending on average $13 on popcorn and soda, which is more than double the norm, because they’re not shelling out money for their ticket. The minute we start to not show every theater in the AMC brand, or every movie, that’s when that will start to turn around.” In other words, if the big chains don't start cutting MoviePass in on concessions sales, MoviePass could cut them out of its app. At 1.5 million customers, that's not such a big deal. If and when it hits five million, the balance shifts. You've got a nice popcorn business; it'd be a shame if something happened to it.

“If they decide to say, essentially, that they don’t want our customers, then we’re going to drive our customers to our partner theaters," says Lowe.

'The minute we start to not show every theater in the AMC brand, or every movie, that’s when that will start to turn around.'

Mitch Lowe

In fact, MoviePass appears to have started that offensive already. On Thursday, customers began reporting that MoviePass cards no longer worked at select AMC theaters. It seems that the impasse stems not from AMC, but from MoviePass itself. In a statement first reported by Deadline, Lowe said: "We’re excited to keep working with theater chains that are closely aligned with our customer service values. As we continue to strive for mutually-beneficial relationships with theaters, the list of theaters we work with is subject to change."

In a statement Friday, Helios and Matheson CEO Ted Farnsworth confirmed that MoviePass had pulled out of 10 AMC theaters. He also claimed that the subscription service represents 62 percent of AMC's operating income, and argued that the theater chain should share concession revenue—or continue to lose potential business. "We already know in past testing that MoviePass subscribers are not theater-loyal," says Farnswroth. "They're happy to drive by a theater that may be closer to a theater that will accept MoviePass -because of the MoviePass value."

For its part, AMC responded to angry tweets with a boilerplate comment: "Some of our guests say MoviePass may be blocking the use of their service at a handful of AMC locations. AMC has not restricted MoviePass acceptance at our theatres, nor have we heard from MoviePass about this."

MoviePass subscribers likely won't appreciate being used as negotiation fodder. And it's too early to know how this particular gambit might play out; in fact, since the impacted theaters are all in major cities and command higher ticket prices, it may have more to do with trying to avoid losses than bringing AMC to the table. But unless AMC, Regal, and Cinemark work out a deal, expect less dramatic measures as well, like MoviePass demoting their showtimes in its app search results, or blocking them out altogether.

These are blunt tactics. But for Lowe, the MoviePass subscription model is just the first sledgehammer blow of a gut reno. He envisions certain films being exclusive to MoviePass members on their open weekends, and bringing the bingeing experience to the big screen. And why not live sports? And why not YouTube clips between films? US box office hit a three-year low in 2017, despite rising ticket prices. The system, Lowe argues, isn’t working. Why not try something new?

“The theaters’ excuse that they had a declining year, and that they blame it on content, is kind of an abdication of a good retailer to identify the change in what customers are interested in,” says Lowe.

And if that works, MoviePass envisions a future in which it partners not just with movie theaters and studios, but with restaurants and bars and ice cream shops and anyone else that might benefit from the subscriber data it amasses.

Then again, it's possible that none of this works. Or maybe it all does, but just not fast enough to catch up to all the money going out the door. But with some independent studio and theater deals already falling into place, and an ambitious roadmap for the future, at the very least MoviePass has shown that it’s more than just something for nothing—and it’s more than ready for its close-up.

No Biz Like Showbiz

Don't forget that the data MoviePass collects from all of those subscribers is what makes it all possible

Before MoviePass, Netflix had a pretty grand plan of its own—which has worked out pretty well so far

And if you're looking for even more disruption, check out the VR movie that sold for seven-figures at Sundance

Wired Magazine Story 01-26-2018

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-29-2018, 06:27 PM:

quote: Brent Barnhart
I’m thinking he’s meaning that the customer comes in Twice as much so that’s twice the concession sales than before.
In theory.

Sounds legit... But here it is from the horse's mouth:

quote: Mitch Lowe
“We’re spending millions and millions of dollars every week at those top three. Those customers are spending on average $13 on popcorn and soda, which is more than double the norm, because they’re not shelling out money for their ticket.

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 01-29-2018, 06:47 PM:

You're sure that's the horse's er... mouth?
[Big Grin]

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-31-2018, 07:51 PM:

quote: Jonathan M. Crist
If it seems like MoviePass is too good to be true, that’s because right now, it is.

Good ol' MLM style of operation operating an upside down pyramid.

quote: Jonathan M. Crist
Those customers are spending on average $13 on popcorn and soda, which is more than double the norm, because they’re not shelling out money for their ticket.

How does Mitch know these facts?
Is he standing in a lobby with a clicker counter counting how many MP owners heads to the snak bar?
I'm seeing the opposite: guests walk by the counter and gloat on how this is a free night for them. BUT, those who do, use their MP cards at the register and it works for them! [Eek!]

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 02-01-2018, 02:38 AM:

quote: Monte L Fullmer
Good ol' MLM style of operation operating an upside down pyramid.

It's not yet an MLM scheme. There isn't really a hierarchical structure, you get your subscription directly from MoviePass and even the "top" of the "pyramid" isn't making any money.

quote: Monte L Fullmer
How does Mitch know these facts?
Is he standing in a lobby with a clicker counter counting how many MP owners heads to the snak bar?

They're "data analysts", they're supposed to know all of this. But obviously, it's just a blatant assumption.

It's like with promotional and "free" tickets and engagements you usually give away. Most of the people you're going to get with it are "leechers", which only come to benefit from the free giveaway, in the hope some of it will stick and some of them will return as normal paying customers.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 02-01-2018, 02:22 PM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
I don't know why the URL above isn't displaying as a link like usual -- I followed the same procedure as always for posting a link and tried it 3 times.

A reply on this older post, but a tip if this happens again for all:

Look at the front "URL" in the string. It's missing a bracket on the right side of the word, "url"

It supposed to look like this > [URL]. The one posted only has the one bracket next to the word> [URL . This kills the instruction to make the url into a link.

This bracket layout works with all UBB codes below. Each code has to have both brackets on each side of the word.

Good luck

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 02-01-2018, 02:37 PM:

What's weird is, I didn't edit the URL as generated by FT at all -- and I tried it 3 times.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 02-01-2018, 04:07 PM:

Oh, it could have not been accepted since the link was a secure https:// link.

Code didn't like the "s" in the hypertext header.

Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 02-01-2018, 11:20 PM:

Monte, please stop talking out of your ass.

The URL didn't work because of the unnecessary tracking data built into it that made it too long for the board software to understand. I edited it to all that was needed to work.

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 02-02-2018, 08:05 AM:

Here's another problem, maybe, with MoviePass.
I'm old and out of the dating game, so this may not apply to the modern world. MoviePass only let's you buy one ticket at a time, therefore if someone wants to buy date tickets s/he has to buy them separately. Not a deal breaker, but extra time consuming, etc.
Also no good for family night, unless everyone in the family has a card, and that just slows things down.
I gather their target audience is teens to mid-20's, who are the prime dating age. How much loyalty does MoviePass think they can generate?

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 02-02-2018, 12:25 PM:

Back in the day, when I used to go to the movies with friends, we usually paid for our tickets individually, at the booth. When I went with a date, it was usually me who ended up paying for both tickets... [Wink]

Since MoviePass essentially requires you to buy the tickets at the cinema itself, I don't really see a problem here though. Even if you're buying tickets for someone else, will someone make a problem when you pay the other tickets with other means (e.g. another credit card or cash) than those paid via MoviePass?

Obviously, those paying via MoviePass need to reserve their passes via the app a few moments in advance.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 02-02-2018, 12:30 PM:

Maybe the dating game will develop a new paradigm: The girl will give her MoviePass card to the guy so he can buy their tickets together. It'll be a new rite of passage. "Moviepass official."

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 02-02-2018, 01:11 PM:

Marcel: Well, it doubles (or more) the time it takes to process and order. Multiply that by whatever the line is for the hot new date movie and things start slowing down (remember, can't get their tickets online).

And while we're at it, is MoviePass going to put a limit on concessions, or once they are getting a cut, are they going to demand special discounts for their card holders?

Mike: I can certainly see that happening, but the person giving the card to the other buying the tickets is still paying for his/her ticket instead of being treated to a movie.

Is there no romance left in this corporate virtual hells cape?!? [evil]

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 02-02-2018, 01:46 PM:

I was under the impression that Moviepass isn't allowed to be used for concessions, so there's nothing to limit.

Or did I miss something?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-02-2018, 01:57 PM:

You mean "Movie Pass Dutch (tm)"

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 02-02-2018, 03:35 PM:

So, it is possible that the MoviePass guy is just blowing a lot of smoke about the "deals" they've been making with independent cinemas:

quote:
What MoviePass wants from AMC, and other cinema operators, is a cut of the movie ticket and concession sales its subscribers generate. Several sources tell us the company is asking for USD $3 per ticket and 20% of concession sales. Lowe says the company has already entered into agreements with 1,000 independent cinemas wherein they receive the USD $3 rev share on tickets and 25% of concession sales.

We couldn’t find an exhibitor brave enough to admit they have struck a deal with MoviePass under those terms and it was not for lack of trying or coaxing. Most used phrases like “over my dead body” or “you and what army” when it came to the suggestion of sharing in concession sales. Likewise, every distributor we spoke with maintained that no exhibitor in their right mind would ever give up a part of their concession revenue. Sharing in concessions is the elusive golden ring studios have long sought to grab hold of and, despite decades of attempting various schemes, they’ve never been successful.

Lowe doesn’t see why the concept is such a non-starter. “If you take a small percentage of that increased profit and share it with us, that would ensure that we could continue to drive more activity to the movie theater business,” he told Vulture. The exhibition business operates on such small margins already though, so it’s hard to fathom operators wanting to give even a fraction of a percentage away to a third party.

Here's a link to the whole article, which otherwise has a lot of the same info we've already seen.

Link

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 02-02-2018, 04:35 PM:

One thing I have found interesting about talking to Movie Pass subscribers is there seems to be a very high level of awareness that their business model may not be sustainable. They definitely seem to be aware they need to take advantage now because it may not last.

I would estimate we have about 20-25 regular customers using Movie Pass at this point. About half of them are not very tech savvy and have had significant problems getting it to work. These users also seem to be completely unaware the theatre has absolutely nothing to do with Movie Pass, and direct their frustrations on us when it doesn't work.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 02-02-2018, 06:39 PM:

We have posted the 1-800 number for MP users on issues that they really need the help with.

A lot think we're in partners with MP, as with Fandango, but we tell them that they are third party and we have no partnerships with both third party operations.

Yet, Customer Service with MP is real bad - like hours on hold for the user.

Posted by Martin Brooks (Member # 1269) on 02-07-2018, 07:14 PM:

quote: Justin Hamaker
One thing I have found interesting about talking to Movie Pass subscribers is there seems to be a very high level of awareness that their business model may not be sustainable. They definitely seem to be aware they need to take advantage now because it may not last.

I would estimate we have about 20-25 regular customers using Movie Pass at this point. About half of them are not very tech savvy and have had significant problems getting it to work. These users also seem to be completely unaware the theatre has absolutely nothing to do with Movie Pass, and direct their frustrations on us when it doesn't work.

Have you done any analysis of your concession revenues from those customers? Are their per caps more, the same or less than customers who pay regular price for the movies. If you had to share revenue with Movie Pass, would you find it worth it?

If they come as a couple or with friends, do they all have MP or does only one person?

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 02-08-2018, 01:09 AM:

Martin, there isn't much to analyze. I can tell you about half of them buy snacks and the others do not. The concession purchases are nothing out of the ordinary - usually just a drink and a popcorn. It is not as though these people are seeing it as an excuse to buy more at the snack bar than normal. Since we only have about 20 regular users there is not enough to make any noticeable impact on the snack bar.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 02-09-2018, 05:17 PM:

I can see the handwriting on the wall now.... when MoviePass runs out of money, these idiots are going to BLAME THE THEATERS for it, since no theater will want to share its concession and film profits.

The more this story goes on, the less happy the ending looks.

MoviePass Tops 2 Million Subscribers While Cash Burn Accelerates
February 8, 2018, 3:00 PM MST

The pressure is on for Hollywood disruptor MoviePass.

The startup, which allows customers to watch one film a day in a theater for less than $10 a month, said on Thursday that it has passed 2 million subscribers. But the more members the company adds, the faster it burns cash, and MoviePass has already been warned by its accountants that its long-term viability is in question.

As MoviePass directs more movie fans to theaters, the question for the company is whether studios and exhibitors will agree to share revenue from ticket or popcorn sales. MoviePass said it has yanked its service from 10 AMC Entertainment theaters because the chain won’t cooperate, while Cinemark has already started its own subscription service.

“We’re giving people a reason to go back to the movie theaters, and they’re going in droves,” MoviePass Chief Executive Officer Mitch Lowe said in a statement. “With awards season here, we hope we can make Hollywood and exhibitors very happy by filling seats with eager audiences.”

The company, which is majority-owned by Helios & Matheson Analytics Inc., pays theaters full price for tickets, which can cost $10 apiece or more. MoviePass warned in an October regulatory filing that more frequent viewing by subscribers will lead to increasing losses and the need for more financing. The company plans to earn money by aggregating data on moviegoers’ habits, advertising and merchandise sold through its platform, and possibly by gaining a share of refreshment sales.

Lowe said via email on Wednesday that MoviePass bought $110 million worth of tickets in 2017, generating an additional $146 million in ticket sales, mostly through members bringing non-members to the films. MoviePass customers apparently have good taste.

“Roughly 50 percent of the tickets purchased were for Oscar-nominated films,” he said.

Bloomberg article

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-10-2018, 01:13 PM:

All is not happy in MoviePassdom:

"Business Insider" article on some recent terminations of memberships for alleged TOS violations yet, according to the story, customers claim that they didn't do what they are being accused of. This is doubly concerning. Movie Pass refuses to review the claims to verify that the infractions occurred. If they didn't, in fact, occur, then Movie Pass' data is severely flawed. Since their revenue is supposed to come from their massive data collection, having flawed data would make it far less valuable for sale.

http://www.businessinsider.com/moviepass-terminated-users-for-violating-terms-of-service-premium-tickets-2018-2

quote:
MoviePass terminated a 'small percentage' of its users for violating its terms of service — and people are freaking out

Jason Guerrasio

22h 18,124
FACEBOOK
LINKEDIN
TWITTER
screamDimension Films

MoviePass confirmed to Business Insider that a "small percentage" of accounts were terminated due to users violating its terms of service.
People have taken to Twitter to object in very vocal terms.

On Friday, MoviePass terminated the accounts of what it described as a "small percentage" of users who violated its terms of service, the company confirmed to Business Insider.

This was a shock to many users, who took to social media to object to being taken off the service. Many of them said they were confused as to why their accounts were deleted.

Business Insider obtained an email that was sent out to members who MoviePass said violated its terms of service by purchasing part of a "premium ticket" on their card. However, multiple people who received the email denied they had ever done that.

Here's the email:

"Your account has been cancelled effective immediately for violating the terms of service by using your MoviePass card to purchase part of a premium ticket. You cannot sign back up for MoviePass."

Customers who then inquired via MoviePass' customer support account on Twitter were sent this via Direct Message:

"Thank you for sharing your concerns with us. Your account was cancelled due to Terms and Conditions violation. You should have received an email notifying you on this on February 09, 2018 with a description of the action that was in violation. Please remember to check your Spam or Junk folders for this email. Some email filters may prevent it from being delivered directly to your inbox. Terms and Conditions violations cannot be disputed nor can your account be reactivated. We appreciate your understanding."

Many took to Twitter to voice their frustration and confusion as to why they lost their accounts:

Kelsey R McCann
@kmacfotwen
@MoviePass_CS why was my acct cancelled w no notice for supposedly doing something I never did? I've reached out through the support portal but no one is responding. The email says I purchased part of a premium ticket with my moviepass card, that NEVER happened. Please advise

3:18 PM - Feb 9, 2018
9
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Abhishek Mangipudy
@mangipudy
@MoviePass @MoviePass_CS
Was my wife’s and my account were cancelled because I used “checkin if movie is missing”? There was no explanation apart from part of premium ticket purchase. I sent a DM on twitter, opened a ticket and started a chat but no response. Can you help??

1:59 PM - Feb 9, 2018
4
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@mitch__lowe my girlfriend and I love moviepass, she got an email this morning saying that her account has been cancelled for purchasing a premium ticket? I promise we have not been able to this great service. She can still log in and book, so maybe this was a mistake?

— Nick Wagner (@nickdean707) February 9, 2018

Paul Newton
@KneelBeforePaul
Hey @MoviePass you've already ruined my day. @MoviePass_CS please help me!

3:10 PM - Feb 9, 2018
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Prabhakar Singh
@singhprabhakar3
@MoviePass_CS My account was cancelled for false reason. I have raised ticket #1144917. Please help me asap

2:06 PM - Feb 9, 2018
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A MoviePass spokesperson sent the following statement to Business Insider regarding the canceling of accounts:

"A small percentage of MoviePass users have been removed from the system, due to violating the terms of service. We diligently review card transactions to prevent fraudulent activity and take our Terms of Service agreement very seriously. If individuals abuse the service, we must take action so that our model continues to be sustainable for everyone. If customers feel there has been a mistake, they can feel free to reach out to MoviePass customer service via the phone number on the back of their card."

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 02-10-2018, 02:17 PM:

I suppose that's one way to cut down on the heavy (most costly) users.

Ultimately, you likely don't have a right to be someone's customer if they don't want you as a customer. "Buzz off because you're black" might get you into trouble, but what about "Go away because we hate you"? I've heard of people being barred from all-you-can-eat restaurants.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 02-10-2018, 05:14 PM:

You have the legal right to refuse service, as long as you're not discriminating.

There's also no law against being an asshole, so you do not even need to state a valid reason why you refuse service.

The difference here though is that service was given and a contractual framework (their terms of service) were agreed upon. In this case the service was terminated, because of alleged infringement upon those terms. If MoviePass terminated those agreements, because of false assumptions, then that's a breach of contract by MoviePass.

We're not talking about real damages for the subscriber though, he's only in it for $10 for the current month, so that's what's on the line.

But if you angry a sufficient number of customers this way, some of them might actually bring forward a class-action suit against MoviePass. Those can become pretty expensive for the receiving ends.

quote: Bloomberg article
MoviePass Tops 2 Million Subscribers While Cash Burn Accelerates

Hey, MoviePass. You could also just stop accepting new subscribers for a while, you might last a month or two longer with your cash.

Obviously, that's not the plan, just keep on burning until the bottom falls out or someone actually manages to get in a fresh truckload of dollar bills to feed the ever growing fire...

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 02-10-2018, 05:44 PM:

I guess all that they're hoping for is being bailed out by an even more braindead investor before it's over...

They probably threw out a bunch of people who took their offer serious and bought tickets more often than twice a month.

- Carsten

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 02-10-2018, 06:55 PM:

This thing has to be a lot of smoke.

Let's say a theater opens a new movie and, between percentages and admission taxes, they pay out something like 65% of their gross. A $10 ticket now becomes $3.50. What idiot's going to give $3 of that to Moviepass? Almost seems they haven't considered the theatres don't belong to them.

Nothing in the reading we've been given suggests the customer gets a discount on his concessions by using the MP card. Assuming its unlikely the customer has access to the theatre's POS system, how would he even know what's available, and at what price? Do you flash your MP card to the theatre and have them say "thank you", sell you your popcorn and drinks and then just hand 25% to MP? I don't see the motivation for the customer.

Not sure I buy the 1,000 independents either. Picking that group makes any number nearly impossible to verify.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 02-10-2018, 07:52 PM:

Most POS systems allow for some pretty complex rebate schemes, but I guess the deal for such a thing would be more like a general discount of e.g. 10% on all concession items.

Obviously, you could even advertise it on your menu for example. Flashing your MP card will become more obvious for those subscribers wanting to get the discount.

Giving the commission to MP for the sales under the discount policy also isn't that hard in most POS systems, as it should be pretty easy to extract the sales under a certain discount policy, report them to MP and wait for an invoice or write them a credit note...

For ticket sales it could be even simpler, they can simply send the participating theater an invoice, based on their own accounting.

Maybe if you're running a small-scale operation and can barely keep it afloat in your market, you could see MP as some kind of last ditch effort to turn things around, but otherwise I wouldn't know why anybody would want to pay anything to them, there's simply nothing in there for the theater, except less margin...

If every player in the exhibition industry keeps their head straight and doesn't fall for the standard scare tactics they're already employing (like taking popular, non-co-paying locations out of their schedule), this thing will probably be over in a few months.

Maybe someone should also start to highlight all the customer horror stories floating around on the Internet regarding MP already, including those supposedly random single-sided lifetime bans, non-existing customer service, etc. At least it helps to deflect the attention away from the exhibitors as being the bad guys not playing ball.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 02-10-2018, 08:18 PM:

Now they're running a "sale" where you get the subscription for $7.95 a month (if you pay for a year in advance) and you also get streaming of "Fandor's library of 5000+ movies," whatever that is.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 02-10-2018, 08:58 PM:

I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm saying MP hasn't published a hint as to how it would work or, for that matter, how their claimed 1,000 independents are making it work now.

So... 25% to Moviepass and maybe another 10% to the customer, who may or may not consider a buck off of a $10 popcorn motivation enough to buy it in the first place.

Still not convinced, but I can see why AMC and Regal aren't budging.

Posted by Mike Spaeth (Member # 524) on 02-10-2018, 10:59 PM:

I read the $3.00 cut to moviepass as a discounted ticket price. Kind of like most chains do with their bulk tickets. Instead of $10.00, Moviepass would pay $7.00, ring up a $7.00 ticket, pay $4.55 film rental at 65%, have $2.45 left over. Still a bit tight, but the studio takes 65% of the haircut, instead of the theatre taking 100% of the haircut as in the above example.

Posted by Martin Brooks (Member # 1269) on 02-11-2018, 12:25 AM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
I can see the handwriting on the wall now.... when MoviePass runs out of money, these idiots are going to BLAME THE THEATERS for it, since no theater will want to share its concession and film profits.

And I'm sure they'll be people on social media sites who will agree and blame theaters, but in the end, so what? Movie Pass is typical of the arrogance displayed by other web services as such Uber, except at least Uber had a viable financial model. Movie Pass has no real financial model. And really, what data are they really going to be able to sell? They presumably know the address of the user, what theater they go to and what movies they see. Maybe they also know their gender and age. So what? Most of their users go to see hit movies. Big surprise. What is anyone going to do with that data?

We went through this back around 2000 when all these web startups had financial models where the lost money on every sale but wanted to go public based upon "the lifetime value of the customer" and supposed data. That didn't work either and it all came to a halt with the market and dot.com collapse after 9/11.

And instead of getting all upset with users trying to buy an upscale ticket, they should just max out the amount they're willing to pay and leave the rest up to the member.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 02-11-2018, 04:33 AM:

quote: Jack Ondracek
I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm saying MP hasn't published a hint as to how it would work or, for that matter, how their claimed 1,000 independents are making it work now.

That's why we figure it out for them. [Wink]

The 1,000 independents is a bullshit marketing number. Probably to please their (potential) investors to show they're working on fixing their cash-drainage. If they had 1,000 theaters hooked up, the least you'd expect is a page on their website explaining how it works.

quote: Mike Blakesley
Now they're running a "sale" where you get the subscription for $7.95 a month (if you pay for a year in advance) and you also get streaming of "Fandor's library of 5000+ movies," whatever that is.

Getting those $95,40 from new subscribers is obviously a trick to get some quick cash in the short run.

Fandor is like a NetFlix for alternative content. Most content on there is from indie film producers or International film content. A subscription will set you back $90 a year.

I doubt there is much overlap between the average MP user and average Fandor user, but getting both MP and Fandor at $95,40 a year sounds like a killer deal... or a last ditch effort to bring in some cash for this Ponzi scheme.

quote: Mike Spaeth
I read the $3.00 cut to moviepass as a discounted ticket price. Kind of like most chains do with their bulk tickets. Instead of $10.00, Moviepass would pay $7.00, ring up a $7.00 ticket, pay $4.55 film rental at 65%, have $2.45 left over. Still a bit tight, but the studio takes 65% of the haircut, instead of the theatre taking 100% of the haircut as in the above example.

For this to work correctly, the patron has to identify itself as a MP user at the box office, because the patron has to get a special, discount ticket. Then again, MP could limit the available amount for the transaction to just above the reduced ticket price. In that case, the sale of a non-discounted ticket would fail. Not really an elegant solution though...

quote: Martin Brooks
And really, what data are they really going to be able to sell? They presumably know the address of the user, what theater they go to and what movies they see. Maybe they also know their gender and age. So what? Most of their users go to see hit movies. Big surprise. What is anyone going to do with that data?

Well, the idea of "big data" is that you can now put all the data you collect into a big super computer and in that way, find new correlations between the data you put in there, especially if you combine it with data from other sources, they might have access to.

For example, they could deduce that people who watch a lot of Jackie Chan movies are really into Chinese food. They could sell this information to Panda Express at a premium rate, because they can now target-advertise to a more "closed target group".

This example is certainly rubbish and 100% over-simplified and sure, it's a lot of smoke and mirrors. But right now, Big Data is hip and a lot of money is thrown at it.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-11-2018, 10:05 AM:

I suspect Fandor is going to be MP's step into the streaming market and will lead to getting day-and-date releases. My prediction is that it starts with non-Hollywood movies. So the art/indie houses will be the first hit of "pay us our cut or we'll take "our" customers to "our" streaming service to show the same movie for a lot less. If that works, they'll have the data to then show Hollywood that their scheme works.

Posted by Jonathan M. Crist (Member # 413) on 02-11-2018, 11:25 AM:

The whole MoviePass scenario is being driven by the egos of Mitch Lowe [CEO of Moviepass] and Ted Farnsworth [CEO of Helios and Matheson Analytics Inc.(publicly traded under symbol HMNY)].

Until late last summer when Lowe and Farnsworth joined forces, HMNY had been trading for years at about $2.50 per share. To fund the Moviepass discount price plan last September, Moviepass sold a majority 53% interest in itself to HMNY which funded the purchase by issuing a bunch of treasury stock and convertible debt. As a result of its Moviepass purchase within a few days the stock of HMNY ballooned from $2.50 to $38.00 per share on the Moviepass acquisition announcement.

Since September in order to continue to fund the Moviepass cash burn, HMNY has kept issuing out more of its stock and debt and funneling those funds into Moviepass. On Friday Feb 9, 2018 the stock of HMNY dropped to $7.73 per share after HMNY shareholders approved a plan to raise the number of shares of HMNY from 100 Million to 500 Million so that more shares can be sold to continue to fund Moviepass.

I always feel sorry for the small minority shareholders whose ownership interest gets diluted (and devalued and then squeezed out) when their company issues out a whole bunch of new stock to fund some scheme or another.

We have seen this movie before. And Hollywood loves sequels and reboots. Perhaps when they film the story of Moviepass they can get DiCaprio to star and Scorsese to direct.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 02-11-2018, 03:15 PM:

quote: Mike Spaeth
I read the $3.00 cut to moviepass as a discounted ticket price. Kind of like most chains do with their bulk tickets. Instead of $10.00, Moviepass would pay $7.00, ring up a $7.00 ticket, pay $4.55 film rental at 65%, have $2.45 left over. Still a bit tight, but the studio takes 65% of the haircut, instead of the theatre taking 100% of the haircut as in the above example.

If MP has access to the theatre's POS, then I suppose that could be made to work. Not sure how it could if not though.

It would also require a contract waiver from the studios. The boilerplate requires percentage calculations on highest available price for a particular class. If I read that right, my $10 ticket and MP's $7 would both require the higher percentage to the studio... unless they change the language or ignore it... which some, but not all have been known to do.

Unless the studios play along, the theatre still takes the haircut.

I think the thing that makes this so suspicious to me is that there's been no whiff about how this works for the theatre which, if there truly are 1,000 independents out there, you'd think you'd have heard something by now.

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 02-11-2018, 05:33 PM:

quote: Jack Ondracek
I think the thing that makes this so suspicious to me is that there's been no whiff about how this works for the theatre which, if there truly are 1,000 independents out there, you'd think you'd have heard something by now.

Unless they signed NDA's. Remember the glory days of digital?

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 02-11-2018, 06:33 PM:

quote: Martin McCaffery
Unless they signed NDA's. Remember the glory days of digital?

Good point, Martin. Forgot about that. For that matter though, someone would have said "I'd like to talk, but then I'd have to die".

Posted by Mike Spaeth (Member # 524) on 02-11-2018, 07:13 PM:

I suspect the "discount" revolves around their e-ticketing service. When a customer uses MP at one of the e-ticketing-enabled theatres, they buy their ticket and select their seat directly through the MP app. The customer never sees what price the ticket is being rang for, and they are most definitely accessing the POS system in that system.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 02-12-2018, 03:26 PM:

I wonder if they're going to send their 2 million subscribers a check for $24, now that they've devalued their membership by that much...? I mean, since they have plenty of cash and all. [Roll Eyes]

MoviePass Cuts Price Again, Bundles Subscription With Fandor
3:56 PM PST 2/9/2018 by Paul Bond

The company will lower its price to $7.95, and the new price includes free access to Fandor, a streaming service.

MoviePass, already criticized by some theater owners for cheapening the moviegoing experience, is taking it to the next level: It is further lowering its price and adding streaming into the mix, making it a cut-rate competitor to Netflix and the others.

The service that offers a movie ticket each day to subscribers who pay just $9.95 per month said late Friday that it will lower its price to $7.95, and that the new price includes free access to Fandor, a streaming service that boasts the biggest collection of independent films.

The partners said Friday it was a "limited offer" and the Fandor subscription would run out after a year. Plus, there's a $19.95 "processing fee" that brings the one-year total to $115.35, which customers must pay for up front.

MoviePass CEO Mitch Lowe told The Hollywood Reporter he hasn't yet decided how long the limited offer would last. "We're having fun. We're energizing the movie industry; constantly experimenting."

“MoviePass is not only a phenomenon in the entertainment industry, but it has sparked a movement, now 2 million people strong,” said Ted Farnsworth, CEO of Helios and Matheson Analytics, the service's parent company.

MoviePass says it is responsible for 5 percent of the nation's total box office nowadays, as it mostly pays full price for the tickets that its 2 million subscribers use.

“With this new offer, we can make the movement even more accessible to moviegoers," said Farnsworth. "I believe our annual subscribers will become influential movie consumers and an amazing asset and bellwether for the film industry as a whole.”

The news announced Friday came as several MoviePass users took to the internet to complain that their subscriptions were canceled after being accused of abusing the service. Some complainers, though, accused the company of canceling them because they simply were seeing too many movies.

Lowe told THR that the cancellations were for subscribers who were using MoviePass to pay down the cost of seeing Fathom Events or Imax content, which is not allowed. Some, he said, were also using their MoviePass cards for a free ticket then cashing them in for gift cards minutes later.

The emails received by some users Friday reads: "Your account has been canceled effective immediately for violating the terms of service by using your MoviePass card to purchase part of a premium ticket. You cannot sign back up for MoviePass."

Hollywood Reporter

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 02-12-2018, 04:22 PM:

The year to date box office through February 8 is about $781 million. If Movie Pass is accounting for 5% of the total box office they would have paid about $39 million.

Even if every subscriber paid the full $9.95 a month, AND they have already collected January and February they would have collected roughly $40 million. And this is without any particularly busy weekends. This means they are basically operating at a loss for the last 3 weeks of February. Of course their actually monthly revenue is lower because of the discounted annual subscriptions.

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 02-12-2018, 05:52 PM:

quote:
“MoviePass is not only a phenomenon in the entertainment industry, but it has sparked a movement, now 2 million people strong,” said Ted Farnsworth, CEO of Helios and Matheson Analytics, the service's parent company.

Oh Good God. The Hype, the Hype. Are they going to issue pussy hats next?

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 02-12-2018, 06:04 PM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
I wonder if they're going to send their 2 million subscribers a check for $24, now that they've devalued their membership by that much...? I mean, since they have plenty of cash and all.

Well, I guess they will be eligible to switch to the yearly pre-paid option. The one with the hidden service charge of $19.95, which is almost 3 months of service at the discounted price. Although I somehow get the feeling their site won't let you. The thing seems to be barely functional, their blog for example, only produces a database error: Error establishing a database connection

quote: Steve Guttag
I suspect Fandor is going to be MP's step into the streaming market and will lead to getting day-and-date releases. My prediction is that it starts with non-Hollywood movies. So the art/indie houses will be the first hit of "pay us our cut or we'll take "our" customers to "our" streaming service to show the same movie for a lot less. If that works, they'll have the data to then show Hollywood that their scheme works.

It would be interesting to know how many of the art-house clientele are MP subscribers, especially because many of them don't strike me as the most avid smart phone users.

If you check the MP Terms of Service, then you'll see they've been set-up to become a movie streaming service from the very beginning. There is more in it regarding a Netflix-alike streaming service than the actual services they're offering.

I'm wondering what's in it for Fandor though and how much of the subscription fee they're getting from MoviePass and whether it's a flat-fee deal per user or if they're paying a fee per actual stream to Fandor.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 03-02-2018, 03:20 PM:

Looks like MP now has competition. Heard also that MP is suing this company below:

Sinemia

www.sinemia.com

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 03-02-2018, 03:47 PM:

Unlike Moviepass, Sinemia is operating in Canada since when I go their website I get their subscription price in Canadian dollars and when I ask for a list of theatres where I can use their card, the first theatre on top of their list is mine. They must be using an ip address location service to pick which list to show.

The joke is on them. Their card is a debit card and I don't take any debit or credit cards here at all.

I wonder if anyone is ever going to show up here with one of their cards....

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-02-2018, 05:29 PM:

Looks like this Sinemia somehow managed to skim MoviePass's list of theaters, since the list for this area is identical on both sites (meaning, it has every theater in the area except mine on it). If that's the case I can see why MP is suing.

At least this latest player has a more user-friendly plan -- no restrictions on the type of ticket you buy, there are "for two" plans, and the price is more realistic yet still a bargain. It looks a little more viable -- unless it's a scam.

This was bound to happen -- it's not like MoviePass can put a monopoly on this subscription model. No wonder they're scrambling to "tie up exclusive deals."

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 03-02-2018, 05:35 PM:

They're suing for patent infringement (as far as what I can see with a quick google search). Amazingly enough, while it's not possible to patent a business model it is possible to patent a business method. What the difference is I don't really know.

But I suppose it's possible that Moviepass has patented their scheme and can go after anyone else who tries it.

Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 03-03-2018, 10:43 AM:

Sinemia would seem to me to be much closer to what a theatre could offer themselves, and also with the maximum "3 tickets per month" one that POSSIBLY could survive. We all have participated in memberships or subscription services for the convenience and I could see where certain months would go by where you might not use it at all which would cover those who do.

Still be easier to do this "in-house" though. I think one could define a "discount" ticket category which a subscription ticket could slot into, OR if one kept a tally and you got to the point where the equivalent of all full-price tickets sold had been redeemed, those still entitled entry under your rules could be reported as a "Pass".

We've never tried anything like this, but this has to be close to how the chains do it. I've still no idea how these outsiders think they can make a go, but I think this new one may have a better chance.

I'd still love to try something like this, if only just to see if we would end up retaining some "float" or not.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-03-2018, 11:45 AM:

You could do that, as long as you were counting each admission as a "full price" ticket and paid the studios accordingly.

I doubt such a thing would work here since we're a single screen, therefore we don't play that many movies so a pay-as-you-go option is no big disadvantage.

One thing I noticed on the Sinemia site is, there are a few smallish English errors...not major, but enough to make me wonder if it's really an L.A.-based company. (I guess they could be based in L.A. but have some non-native-English-speaker running their website. Or maybe the threw the site together in a hurry.)

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 03-04-2018, 03:29 AM:

http://www.slashfilm.com/moviepass-lawsuit/

quote:
In-demand movie theater subscription service MoviePass isn’t about to let someone muscle-in on their turf. The similar service Sinemia thought they could get in on that sweet, sweet subscription action, but MoviePass is taking them to court for patent infringement. Who will win this battle of the subscription services? Place your bets.

When I was growing up, there was a reoccurring commercial about non-brand cereal that always caught my attention. Perhaps you remember it – it featured a well-dressed man duck-walking down a cereal isle at the supermarket, saying, “When you’re shopping for cereal, I suggest you walk this way.”
I bring this odd commercial up because it’s a reminder that while MoviePass may be the go-to “brand name” for movie subscription services, they’re are some “bottom-shelf” options available too. Case in point: Sinemia (which I’ve never heard of before), representing the bottom-shelf cereal in this analogy.

Like MoviePass, Sinemia offers ticket subscription plans to make your movie-going experience more affordable and frequent. “Sinemia is a private movie club that provides discounted movie ticket subscription plans,” explains their ad copy. “Through a combination of easy to use technology and pre-paid debit cards, Sinemia has created an innovative solution for the movie-going experience.”

Apparently, some of that “easy to use technology” has caught the eye of MoviePass, who claim that Sinemia has some explaining to do. Per Variety, MoviePass has filed a patent infringement lawsuit against Sinemia, alleging Sinemia stole some of MoviePass’s key features. MoviePass says Sinemia copied features of its mobile app that are the subject of two patents. MoviePass specifically takes issue with how Sinemia is using a subscription card for tickets along with phone location data to check in at theaters. As MoviePass puts it:

Sinemia’s infringement has harmed MoviePass’ existing customer relationships, has harmed MoviePass’ ability to obtain new customers and form new customer relationships, and has harmed MoviePass’ standing in the movie-subscription marketplace.

We’ll have to wait and see what the outcome of this clash of the movie subscription services will be. While MoviePass is no doubt the more well-known of the two, Sinemia has some appealing options as well. Per their website, “Sinemia is available in every major theater throughout your country. You can see the list of theaters here. Sinemia operates independent of theaters, which means you can get your ticket by using the Sinemia card without any explanations.” However, MoviePass seems to have the sweater deal. With MoviePass, you have access to unlimited movies for a monthly fee. Sinemia only gives you access to two movies per month for $9.99.

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 03-06-2018, 01:35 AM:

MoviePass CEO proudly says the app tracks your location before and after movies

quote:
Everyone knew the MoviePass deal is too good to be true — and as is so often the case these days, it turns out you’re not the customer, you’re the product. And in this case they’re not even attempting to camouflage that. Mitch Lowe, the company’s CEO, told an audience at a Hollywood event that “we know all about you.”

Lowe was giving the keynote at the Entertainment Finance Forum; his talk was entitled “Data is the New Oil: How will MoviePass Monetize It?” Media Play News first reported his remarks.

“We get an enormous amount of information,” Lowe continued. “We watch how you drive from home to the movies. We watch where you go afterwards.”

It’s no secret that MoviePass is planning on making hay out of the data collected through its service. But what I imagined, and what I think most people imagined, was that it would be interesting next-generation data about ticket sales, movie browsing, A/B testing on promotions in the app and so on.

I didn’t imagine that the app would be tracking your location before you even left your home, and then follow you while you drive back or head out for a drink afterwards. Did you?

It sure isn’t in the company’s privacy policy, which in relation to location tracking discloses only a “single request” when selecting a theater, which will “only be used as a means to develop, improve, and personalize the service.” Which part of development requires them to track you before and after you see the movie?

Naturally I contacted MoviePass for comment and will update if I hear back. But it’s pretty hard to misinterpret Lowe’s words.

The startup’s plan is to “build a night at the movies,” perhaps complete with setting up parking or ordering you a car, giving you a deal on dinner before or after, connecting you with like-minded moviegoers, etc. Of course they need data to do that, but one would hope that the collection would be a bit more nuanced than this.

People clearly value the service, because it essentially lets them use someone else’s credit card instead of their own at the movies (and one belonging to a bunch of venture capitalists at that). Who would say no? Some people sure might, if they knew their activities were being tracked at this granularity (and, it has to be said, with such a cavalier attitude) to be packaged up and sold. (Good luck with the GDPR, by the way.)

Hopefully MoviePass can explain exactly what data it collects and what it does with it, so everyone can make an informed choice.

Update: In a statement, a MoviePass representative says:

We are exploring utilizing location-based marketing as a way to help enhance the overall experience by creating more opportunities for our subscribers to enjoy all the various elements of a good movie night. We will not be selling the data that we gather. Rather, we will use it to better inform how to market potential customer benefits including discounts on transportation, coupons for nearby restaurants, and other similar opportunities.

I’ve also asked for information on what location data specifically is collected, for how long before and after a movie users are tracked, and where these policies are disclosed to users.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-06-2018, 02:41 PM:

It's hard to take seriously anything that guy says, considering they keep touting the many, many revenue-sharing deals they have with independents, yet I have yet to hear of even one indie that has such a "deal" with them.

Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 03-06-2018, 08:35 PM:

I was listening to a radio station down in Los Angeles this morning they actually
had an audio clip of the MoviePass president making the comments about how
they track everything; followed by a bit of an on-air discussion afterwards.

Look- - one thing I often wake up screaming is:
"THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS A 'FREE' APP!
("If I were King", I'd make it the first phrase toddlers would learn to speak.
I'd make a law to have it painted on the ceiling of every kids' bedroom so
it's the first thing they see when they wake up and the last thing they see
before going to sleep. Maybe it should even be in glow-in-the-dark paint.)

I repeat: "THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS A 'FREE' APP! ! !

Have you ever looked up how much time, effort & money it costs to code,
test, and distribute a successful app? Only a fool or a philanthropist would
give it away for free.

Every app comes with some baggage and you're giving up something for
the "free" privilege.

So I don't see why people should be surprised, or even doubt that if you put
the MoviePass app on your phone that they are tracking everything you do.
That's one of the reasons I'm careful about granting app permissions on my
phone. If I have the option to pay for an app, I'll just buy the damn thing.
(Not that the those aren't being tracked too. But I feel better about it)

I'll also never put an Alexa or similar device in my house.
I'm not so busy, lame or lazy that I can't sit down at a keyboard.

Well known Kim Kommando who hosts a popular weekly nation-wide
computer related radio talk show, recently told a story on air about how
she discovered Alexa had recorded sensitive conversations she had with
her husband when they were discussing selling some property.

On a TV talk show I recently heard another celeberity talk about how
he found out Alexa had recorded contract negotiations he was having
with his agent in his kitchen at home.

And at a party over the weekend, one of the guests was telling about how
his roommate was telling him all about a recent trip she'd just taken to
Bora-Bora or Pago-Pago or some such remote place that usually doesn't
come up during normal conversation.

While his roommate was still discussing her trip, the party guest started
getting travel offers on his phone to whatever-whatever place they discussing.

Ok- so I'm getting too far off-topic, but I think you get my point.

And now,something just popped up on MY phone.
(It's probably an ad for glow-in-the-dark ceiling paint) [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 03-06-2018, 09:31 PM:

There are genuinely free apps, more for Android than for Apple though.

f-droid

Personally, I trust f-droid a lot more than google play. Occasionally an app is available on both and if that's the case I'll get it from f-droid.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-06-2018, 10:45 PM:

quote: Jim Cassedy
Well known Kim Kommando who hosts a popular weekly nation-wide computer related radio talk show, recently told a story on air about how she discovered Alexa had recorded sensitive conversations she had with her husband when they were discussing selling some property.

On a TV talk show I recently heard another celeberity talk about how he found out Alexa had recorded contract negotiations he was having with his agent in his kitchen at home.

How do these people find out about these recordings? I have yet to see a button on the app that says "Tell me what you recorded today."

I would guess the internet learns WAY more about me based on my websurfing than by the boring conversations Alexa might pick up.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 03-07-2018, 05:53 AM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
How do these people find out about these recordings? I have yet to see a button on the app that says "Tell me what you recorded today."

Well, those things tend to leak stuff they could only have known when e.g. listening to such a conversation.

Recently, we tried to recover an old Gmail account of one of my colleagues.

We were both pretty horrified when the security question Google asked turned out something it had scanned in one of the mails in the inbox. So, Google was actually leaking out private information to some unknown, potentially third party.

quote:
THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS A 'FREE' APP!

An app is nothing than a shorthand for "application". Like Frank pointed out, there are plenty of totally free Open Source applications available, some of them even in mobile app form.

It's a pretty simple minded way of thinking if you assume that everybody does everything just for the money. I know it's becoming the default doctrine in the western world and one of our primary export products, but plenty of people just want to share what they've made.

Now, looking at the kind of feedback the Movie Pass app is getting, it doesn't look like they put in a whole lot of efforts.

quote: TechCrunch article posted by Frank
“We get an enormous amount of information,” Lowe continued. “We watch how you drive from home to the movies. We watch where you go afterwards.”

In order to do this, the app needs to be running in the background before I head to the movie theater and also afterwards. Even then, constantly sending back location information, without explicitly mentioning it, is a breach of their service contract with Google and/or Apple.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 03-09-2018, 04:21 PM:

Question for locations with rewards cards:

Do you swipe the patron's rewards card on a MP transaction?

thx - Monte

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 03-09-2018, 04:34 PM:

For a theater it will be hard to deny it. For them, the patron is the customer, not MoviePass. The patron is paying with MP's money, but that's a deal between the patron and MP.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 03-09-2018, 05:31 PM:

^ Thx, for that's what I'm pointing to as well being the sale is a debit card sale no matter who's money is on that card.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-23-2018, 03:37 PM:

So now they're lowering the price AGAIN, I don't get it - if their membership is "exploding," why do they have to keep lowering the price?

Something doesn't smell right about this.

MOVIEPASS CUTS PRICE TO $6.95 FOR A LIMITED TIME

MoviePass is cutting its prices again in an attempt to attract customers to its subscription service. The controversial company, which aspires to be the Netflix of moviegoing, is offering a package deal of $6.95 a month.

It initially cost just under $10 for users to see a movie-a-day for a month; both offerings are less than the cost of a single movie ticket in markets such as Los Angeles and New York City. The average ticket price across the country in 2017 was $8.97.

MoviePass said the lower pricing is only available for new subscribers. The company has attracted more than 2 million customers since slashing its prices last summer from roughly $50 a month. But it’s made enemies in the process. Theater chains such as AMC have derided MoviePass’ business model as unsustainable. The service pays full price for each ticket its customers buy, subsidizing their multiplex visits. Though MoviePass hasn’t released its financial information, industry observers suspect it is operating at a significant loss.

However, the service says it is collecting invaluable data on its customers. It believes it can sell that to theater chains or studios, enabling it to eventually turn a profit. Right now, like Netflix and Amazon before it, MoviePass is more focused on building market share than it is in turning a profit.

In an announcement, MoviePass said it was “diversifying its revenue streams” through marketing agreements with studios and film companies, and partnerships with theater chains. It did not provide specific information about those associations. MoviePass has also started acquiring pics. It partnered with The Orchard to buy the heist drama “American Animals” out of the Sundance Film Festival.

“Our vision has always been to make the moviegoing experience easy and affordable for anyone, anywhere,” said MoviePass CEO Mitch Lowe in a statement. “With the current growth and support that we’ve seen within the last several months, our studio and exhibitor revenues, and other marketing partnerships have motivated us to lower the price once again, offering movie lovers greater access to MoviePass.”

Last summer, MoviePass sold a majority stake to Helios and Matheson Analytics Inc., a publicly traded data firm. At the time, the company said it had roughly 20,000 subscribers. MoviePass’ new plan also carries a processing fee of $6.55, which does make it more expensive than the sticker price.

Variety article

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 03-23-2018, 08:00 PM:

Heard some gray matter lately that MP will be gone within 45 days.
It's a business plan gone bust and can't recover from.

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 03-23-2018, 10:43 PM:

I've been able to pull together some data and crunch some numbers on actual Movie Pass usage at my theatre.

For the month of February Movie Pass accounted for 1.16% of our tickets sold. I was able to pull this together by obtaining transaction history with card numbers (first 6 + last 4) from our credit card processor.

Using this same data I was also able to extract credit card snack bar purchases from our POS transaction history. From this I found that MP customers accounted for 0.56% of our concession sales. Obviously this number goes up when you consider some of them will have paid cash, but it is still a small number.

Of those MP users, one of our most common users, is someone who already came to the movies at least once a week, and spends the exact same at the snack bar as he always did. Therefore I can conclusively say his transactions to not represent new business. If I back out his visits MP tickets drops to 1.08%, and removing his concession purchases drops the total to 0.46%.

Another thing worth noting is that 76% of the unique users of MP did not purchase anything at the snack bar with a card. And the transactions of those who did use a card were not any different than normal transactions.

Of our MP users, 58.8% only saw 1 movie, 25.5% saw 2 movies, and 17.6% saw 3 or more.

I am working on an analysis to see if I can determine if any of MP customers purchased snacks with cash. This will primarily be done by looking at the next transaction after the ticket was sold.

Posted by Michael Gonzalez (Member # 593) on 03-28-2018, 03:00 AM:

That actually makes perfect sense. Obviously everyone has regular customers. I have a few that are here at least once a week.

The Scenario is that you have a customer that buys 4 tickets a month (at say $10 each). They also purchase the same $10 combo every time. They decide to use Movie Pass to save money but they are still only coming once a week and still only buying that same combo. MP is counting on that person to change their habits but instead they are just pocketing the extra $30 (and good for them btw).

It is just not possible for them to change enough peoples habits and somehow get them to spend more money for this to be a viable business plan.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 03-28-2018, 08:58 AM:

quote: Justin Hamaker
Using this same data I was also able to extract credit card snack bar purchases from our POS transaction history. From this I found that MP customers accounted for 0.56% of our concession sales. Obviously this number goes up when you consider some of them will have paid cash, but it is still a small number.

Justin, the stories I've read about MP insist the cards are loaded specifically for theatre admission. I understand how you can track their cards for the ticket purchase, but I'm curious as to how you could use that information to pull those same people out of concession purchases. If the current "rules" are followed, my impression was they'd have to use a different form of payment for their snacks. From what I've read, attempting to use a MP card at the snack bar could get the subscriber booted from the service. If that's true, that might be part of the low percentage.

On the other hand, I also read that MP customers generally pass by the snack bar, because they believe they're basically getting the movie for free, so why spend a lot of money on popcorn?

When I offered the discount (25 years ago), my $5 carload customers did much the same thing. They brought a lot of beer in, but didn't spend much on snacks.

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 03-28-2018, 07:26 PM:

Jack
My POS system captures the customer's name, so I was able to use the MP card numbers from the card processor to get the name, then use that name to search for similar names in the POS transaction data. When I did this I was able to identify cases where the same customer used another card with their name for a concession transaction immediately after buying the ticket. I only counted those transactions where there was a clear link.

Again, this doesn't account for those who paid with cash, or situations where someone else paid for snacks. However, having some data makes it so you can extrapolate and make conclusions. For example, it shows me most of my MP customers are not suddenly spending $20-$30 at the snack bar.

If my memory is correct, you are using RTS for your POS system. I don't think they capture the customer name on the credit cards, but it might be something to talk to them about. They might also have a way to tag movie pass transactions. Another thought if you're trying to track this would be to have a $0 concession item called Movie Pass which can be run up with a MP ticket to create a flag in your transaction data.

Posted by Harold Hallikainen (Member # 5405) on 03-31-2018, 01:00 PM:

http://www.omaha.com/go/plus/omaha-theater-partners-with-moviepass-one-of-the-first-in/article_95b65f13-b2ff-5b6b-8165-6caa1d406a43.html

Omaha theater partners with MoviePass, one of the first in the country to do so publicly

By Micah Mertes World-Herald staff writer

Update: MoviePass has raised its monthly fee to $9.95 again since this article was first published.

It’s the deal that seems too good to be true for moviegoers: For $6.95 a month, you can watch a movie a day in theaters at no additional cost.

The NYC-based movie subscription service MoviePass has been around since 2011, but it was only last year that the company became a major player in the movie business, going from 20,000 subscribers to nearly 3 million in a little more than a year.

The service works at all theaters in the Omaha area, though it works at one particular theater more than others: Aksarben Cinema recently entered a revenue-sharing partnership with MoviePass in hopes of driving up attendance. Locally, it’s the clearest vote of confidence yet for a company that’s shaken up the movie industry seemingly overnight.

In August 2017, the analytics firm Helios and Matheson acquired MoviePass, and the service soon after lowered its cost to $9.95 a month. Membership grew rapidly after the price drop, and growth continues as MoviePass has continued to slash prices.

MoviePass CEO Mitch Lowe said he expects the company to top 5 million subscribers by 2019.

The business model of MoviePass has been met with no small amount of skepticism. The question, namely, is this: How does it make money?

AMC Theatres, the largest theater chain in the U.S., has been MoviePass’ most prominent and vocal critic. Last summer, upon learning of MoviePass’ price drop, AMC Theatres issued a statement that ripped MoviePass’ model as unsustainable: “From what we can tell, by definition and absent some other form of other compensation, MoviePass will be losing money on every subscriber seeing two movies or more in a month.”

And yet as MoviePass has skyrocketed in popularity, it’s become more clear how the company plans to make money.

One way is data. The MoviePass app is culling data from its ever-growing user base with plans to monetize that data. According to MoviePass, more than half of its users are millennials.

In fact, questions of the company’s data-tracking capabilities recently have come under fire. MoviePass had to backtrack on comments that Lowe made about the app’s location-tracking abilities following an outcry that MoviePass was following users’ whereabouts too closely.

Another way MoviePass plans to make money? Making pacts with the theater chains themselves.

Simply put, here’s the deal: Theater partners give MoviePass discounted ticket prices or a cut of their revenue in exchange for priority placement in the MoviePass app, along with in-app e-ticketing and seat selection. MoviePass will still work at theaters that are not partners. But only at partner cinemas can subscribers purchase their tickets before coming to the theater.

MoviePass says it has entered revenue-sharing partnerships with more than 1,000 theater screens and several major studios. But so far only a few MoviePass partnerships have been made public.

This past week, MoviePass announced a partnership with Mark Cuban’s Landmark Theaters, which operates 53 theaters in 27 markets. The only other publicly announced partners are Studio Movie Grill, Los Angeles’ two-screen Arena Cinelounge and, now, Main Street Theatres, the Omaha-based chain with eight theaters, including Aksarben Cinema.

Main Street partnered with MoviePass in January, and its number of MoviePass subscribers has since more than doubled. MoviePass subscribers accounted for about 5 percent of Aksarben’s ticket sales in February, said Mike Barstow, director of analytics and business development for Main Street.

“It’s definitely encouraging for us to see that growth,” Barstow said. “There’s definitely some proof that the partnership is working for us in Omaha.”

MoviePass, he said, tends to give a movie legs. Maybe you want to go see “Black Panther” a second or third time. Maybe you want to take a chance on a movie that’s getting mixed reviews. If you have MoviePass, you’re more likely to do those things because it’s no longer any additional cost.

Where theaters perhaps stand the best chance to benefit from the MoviePass arrangement is at the concessions stand, Barstow said. This is where theaters have historically made the highest profit margin, as the studios take a sizable bite at the box office.

“The average person goes to movies five times a year,” he said. “If you get that guy who comes to movies five times a year, and now with MoviePass he comes to 10 movies a year, that’s an extra $30 a year from him at the concessions stand.”

The idea is that it’s easier to justify buying popcorn, soda or chicken strips when you don’t have to pay for the movie ticket. That moviegoers will be more likely to partake in the amenities, in a time when theaters are doing everything they can to get butts into their increasingly cushy recliner seats.

“Movie theaters have never been better,” said Bernadette McCabe, senior vice president of exhibitor relations and business strategy at MoviePass. “It’s the perfect time for us to have more people visiting theaters more often. That’s the premise of our company. We think the movie theater is the best place to see a movie. A circuit like Main Street Theatres, they want to do things that are going to increase moviegoing in their communities. They’re a perfect partner for us to have on board.”

Though Aksarben might be benefiting from its MoviePass partnership, subscribers will continue to use the service at other theaters in Omaha, too. MoviePass works at every theater in the area (and at 91 percent of theaters in the U.S., according to the company).

There are no punitive measures to theaters that aren’t MoviePass partners. But a recent move by the company shows what that might look like.

In January, MoviePass pulled support from 10 of AMC’s busiest locations (none in the Omaha area), deepening the animosity between the two companies that had already been at odds for months.

Not every movie exhibitor has such a contentious relationship with MoviePass, but chains big and small are invariably seeing more patrons use the service.

Casey Logan, deputy director of Film Streams, which runs the Dundee and Ruth Sokolof theaters, said each location is seeing an increase in MoviePass users and that they expect the number to grow.

“We haven’t really experienced any major issues with it so far,” Logan said in an email. “But the strategy now emerging of MoviePass expecting a cut of ticket sales from cinemas, and potentially even calling for a share of concession sales, seems like a slippery slope.”

Film Streams has long had its own membership program, which offers discounted admission, along with other benefits. In the nonprofit’s recently released annual report, executive director Rachel Jacobson said that membership has grown significantly in the past year. It’s up to 3,400 households, up 66 percent over the previous year.

Is this the future? Will subscription-style moviegoing models one day be the norm? And if so, what would that mean for studios, theaters and the movies themselves? More specifically, just how big a deal will MoviePass become?

Most of the movie industry appears to be taking a wait-and-see approach. In the meantime, MoviePass grows.

----

How MoviePass works

1. You sign up for MoviePass on MoviePass.com. The site is currently offering a prepaid annual subscription that amounts to $6.95 a month, plus a one-time $6.55 processing fee.

2. You get a debit card in the mail and create an account with the MoviePass app.

3. You open the app and find theaters nearby. You select the theater you want and search for showtimes. (MoviePass works only with standard films, not 3D or IMAX showings.)

4. Once you’ve chosen the movie you want to see, you go to the theater. MoviePass won’t let you check in for a movie until you’re within 100 yards of the theater. The app uses the GPS on your phone to track this.

Note: On the MoviePass app, subscribers can get tickets and select seating before coming to the theater if the theater is an exhibitor partner such as Aksarben Cinema.

5. Once you’re there, you select your showtime on your phone and check in, and MoviePass will transfer the price of the ticket to your debit card. You pay. You watch the movie. You can can see up to one movie a day through MoviePass.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 04-04-2018, 02:19 PM:

Big thing to understand is what is laid out in the Terms and Conditions:

Especially this one, for some locations that have award cards, will not honor them on MP sales.

2.16. You agree to respect and abide by the theater regulations set forth by the venue you have selected tickets for.

Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 04-05-2018, 11:53 AM:

MoviePass acquires MoviePhone.

Yahoo News

quote: Yahoo News
Helios and Matheson Analytics, which already owns movie ticket subscription service MoviePass, has acquired Moviefone.

Despite the old-school name, Moviefone is now a digital media business with trailers, movie information and ticketing via Fandango — it says it reaches 6 million unique visitors each month.

Moviefone was previously owned by Oath, the Verizon subsidiary formed from the merger of AOL and Yahoo. (Oath also owns TechCrunch). AOL acquired Moviefone for $388 million back in 1999.

The deal includes a $1 million cash payment, as well as stock that could bring the total value up to $23 million, according to Variety. That means Oath now has a stake in MoviePass . It will also continue sell Moviefone's digital ad inventory.

MoviePass, meanwhile, allows customers to pay $9.95 a month (or less) to get one free movie ticket per day, albeit with inconveniences like the need to physically buy your ticket at the theater. Acquiring Moviefone is supposed to help the company expand into content and advertising.

"This natural alignment between MoviePass and Moviefone will help us grow our subscriber base significantly and expand our marketing and advertising platform for our studio and brand partners,” said MoviePass CEO Mitch Lowe in the acquisition release. “Moviefone has been a go-to resource for entertainment enthusiasts for years, and we’re excited to bolster its presence and bring this iconic platform into the entertainment ecosystem of the future.”

Hopefully, they will improve the MoviePhone app, which leaves a lot to be desired.

Posted by Harold Hallikainen (Member # 5405) on 04-05-2018, 12:03 PM:

I had not thought about MoviePhone in a long time. We can see it in action at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM79_itR0Nc .

So, in 1999, AOL bought MoviePhone for $388 million. Today, it sells for $23 million, only $1 million of it cash.

Harold

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 04-19-2018, 07:56 PM:

Looks like MP just now changed their tune with present subscribers, and for the new subscribers, a $9.95/mo service with iHeartRadio where it gets you now, only 4 movies a month with unlimited iHeartRadio Music service.

This might be just a promotion going on, but don't know how long this promo will last.

But, have to slow down those subscribers down some since the MP coffer like like a bucket with holes in the bottom...too much going out and not enough coming in.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-19-2018, 11:31 PM:

Here's an interesting paragraph from a Variety article . (I bolded the most interesting part.)

quote:
There’s reason for skepticism. MoviePass acknowledges that for its business model to work, it needs to attract customers in Midwestern and Southern states where ticket prices are cheaper. The bulk of its users are in major cities such as New York and Los Angeles where the cost of a single movie is greater than a monthly membership. At the same time, the company wants to drive down usage. To be profitable, it wants the bulk of its subscribers to see an average of just over a movie a month.

So, oh-kay, the big great thing about MoviePass is, it makes people want to go to the movies more often! But the ultimate aim of MoviePass is to get them to go to the movies less often. Got it.

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 04-23-2018, 08:22 PM:

The MoviePass home page now says you get 4 movies a month (as noted by Monte), and it includes a trial subscription to iHeartRadio.

But their FAQ still says you get one 2D movie per calendar day.

“As a MoviePass member, you can see up to one standard 2D film per calendar day.”

?

Posted by Rusty Gordon (Member # 2210) on 04-26-2018, 02:45 PM:

Surprise, surprise. It appears all-you-can-watch movie theater service MoviePass will no longer be offering an unlimited option, according to the company’s CEO. MoviePass hasn’t formally announced the change, but CEO Mitch Lowe downplayed the possibility of its return when asked about the change.

The company stopped offering the option back on April 13. The new offering is being labeled as a “promotion” but MoviePass CEO Mitch Lowe says he doesn’t know if the old unlimited option will ever return, reports The Hollywood Reporter. The new plan includes iHeartRadio All Access, which is typically $9.99/month.

“Do you think you will go back to a movie a day?” THR asked Lowe at CinemaCon in Las Vegas late Wednesday. “I don’t know,” he responded.

MoviePass allowed users to pay a flat $9.95/month to watch unlimited standard movies at the movie theater, as long as the movie theater supported the app. Now, the company is limiting that to just four movies a month, which means you can only see one movie a week for a month, four movies in a single week, etc.

In the past, MoviePass ran promos, but those promos included the full unlimited MoviePass experience. Such a move will likely see a steady decrease in monthly subscribers as high usage users are looking elsewhere.

On the bright side, four movies a month is still cheaper than buying four individual tickets for yourself. It’ll be interesting to see how this plays out as the lust of ‘unlimited’ dies out (sound familiar?).

Lowe has had a few outbreaks in the past, going as far as saying that the company openly tracks users, only to later take back what he said.

What do you think? Are you a MoviePass subscriber? Let us know in the comments below!

https://9to5mac.com/2018/04/26/moviepass-removes-unlimited-subscription-option/

Posted by Jarod Reddig (Member # 6363) on 04-26-2018, 03:49 PM:

I never even consider crap like MoviePass. Its all bean counting bull crap that won't work in the end.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-26-2018, 05:19 PM:

Who gives a crap about iHeart Radio? That looks like one of those sneaky deals where they give it to you "free" for 3 months, then if you don't specifically opt out, they start charging you automatically.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 04-26-2018, 06:51 PM:

You can see that it's already done with them. It happens all the time with 'business models' like this. In this case, it has to do with cinema, that's why it's on this forum, but there are hundreds if not thousands of them around in all different 'markets' and development phases. Some burn a few hundred dollars before they go belly-up, some hundreds of millions, but most of them end up the same.

- Carsten

Posted by Jonathan M. Crist (Member # 413) on 04-27-2018, 12:25 AM:

iHeart Radio filed for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy on March 15, 2018. Wonder how long they will be around.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-27-2018, 03:18 PM:

Also, Mitch Lowe says that naysayers are good!

MoviePass Halts Repeat Viewings As 'Avengers: Infinity War' Hits Theaters
12:29 PM PDT 4/27/2018 by Paul Bond

MoviePass appears to have watered down its service again by restricting new and old subscribers alike from seeing the same movie twice.

Just in time for Avengers: Infinity War, users of the subscription service woke up Friday to see a new wrinkle in the MoviePass terms of service, written in all capital letters, no less: “THE SERVICE PROHIBITS REPEAT VIEWINGS OF THE SAME MOVIE.”

MoviePass had been wowing consumers with its too-good-to-be true service since August by offering them a movie ticket per day for just $9.95 a month, but the company seems to be chipping away at that bargain.

Two weeks ago, MoviePass offered a special “promotion” that bundled iHeartRadio All Access with a stripped-down version of MoviePass that supplied just four tickets per month. Then on Wednesday, CEO Mitch Lowe told The Hollywood Reporter that he isn’t sure the ticket-per-day offering would ever return.

And now comes the no-repeat policy.

MoviePass has always stated in its terms of service language that it maintains the right to change its rules, though some of its subscribers have purchased a year’s subscription in advance and can’t be pleased that the policy is now different from the one that was in place when they shelled out their money.

“Anyone with an issue should call customer service,” Lowe told THR on Friday.

Also added to the MoviePass terms of service on Friday was a line saying that premium plans are in the works, and Lowe said the first will be a “couples” product so that users can bring a friend or spouse to the theater with them. He’s also working on a plan that will include Imax and 3D movies.

“There’s like 100 new features we’re working on,” Lowe said.

As for the no-repeat-movies policy that suddenly appeared on Friday, he said it’s actually a reinstatement of an old policy that was abandoned more than a year ago, and that it is necessary again to cut down on fraud.

“When we took that policy down, we saw some people turning MoviePass into a cottage industry, standing in front of a theater selling their tickets to Star Wars, or whatever,” he said.

Lowe still did not know whether the plan that charges $9.95 a month for a movie per day would ever return, but he also didn’t rule it out. He reiterated on Friday that he expects 5 million subscribers by year’s end, and he said that MoviePass has seen no drop in new subscribers since moving to the package that includes iHeartRadio and only four movie tickets monthly.

“It’s absolutely wonderful to have so many naysayers,” he said. “That gives us free runway where everyone is terrified to compete with us.”

Hollywood Reporter

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 04-27-2018, 03:48 PM:

Yep, most definitely unwinding already and quite definitely in search of the next major injection of cash. [Wink]

Yet, still enough people are willing to sell their first born, for this flat fee... correction, one-movie-a-day, I mean, one-movie-a-week, or let me say, one-movie-a-week-that-you-didn't-see-before-card.

At least you get three full months all-access to iHeartRadio, your failed radio product that's still somewhere between Chapter 7 and 11 of its lifecycle.

I think the best way to get rid of them is by wishing them many subscribers.

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 04-30-2018, 06:23 PM:

quote: Jonathan M. Crist
iHeart Radio filed for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy on March 15, 2018. Wonder how long they will be around.

Although I don't use iHeart Radio, this is unfortunate to see because a friend is their VP of programming - or something similar.

As for MoviePass, they added another new wrinkle where they are having users take a picture of their ticket. I don't know if this is every customer or just randomly selected customers. However I have customers having to do this at least twice in the last few days.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-30-2018, 10:41 PM:

That seems strange, since MP already has to interface with the theater's ticketing system to buy the ticket, don't they KNOW what movie you bought a ticket for?

This story just gets stranger by the day.

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 04-30-2018, 11:10 PM:

They don't actually interface with the theatre's ticketing system. They are pulling show times through one of the listing services. The check-in only puts money on the card which is processed like any other credit card. They only know the price of the transaction; they do not receive any other transaction data. It is possible they receive something more from some theatres who have entered into partnerships, but the do not receive anything from my company's theatres.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 05-01-2018, 06:30 AM:

Actually, photographing the ticket as a proof you actually bought the ticket you reserved via their ticketing system has been proposed on this very same forum. [Wink]

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 05-01-2018, 07:13 AM:

However, it's such an obvious solution I doubt MP was stalking FT looking for ideas.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 05-01-2018, 01:54 PM:

I've heard that some locations actually flag the tix if purchased with a MP card. A key is assigned just for MP sales on the terminal.

This tells the member of mgmt if the patron wants a refund, esp cash, that the patron has to settle with MP on this issue.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 05-01-2018, 05:25 PM:

quote: Justin Hamaker
However, it's such an obvious solution I doubt MP was stalking FT looking for ideas.

Probably yes. Still, if their internal marketing isn't entirely blind, they know about this forum and they should be regularly checking it. There aren't that many forums out there with a similar concentration of people in the industry. And what the exhibition industry thinks about them should be of a major interest to them.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-10-2018, 05:28 PM:

Is the End Near for MoviePass?

MoviePass sounds too good to be true. We may soon find out if it actually is.

The parent company, Helios and Matheson Analytics (HMNY), only has about $15.5 million cash on hand, plus another $27.9 million in accounts receivable, according to documents filed Tuesday with the US Securities and Exchange Commission.

Unless the movie subscription service can come up with more money, MoviePass might not be around for much longer. The firm said that it burns through about $21.7 million every month operating the service, which charges users $10 a month to see a movie every day.

"They appear to have enough cash to last two months," said Michael Pachter, an analyst for Wedbush Securities. "Sounds like a terrible business model to me, and I can't imagine that any sophisticated investors will view it differently."

So far, they don't appear to be. Shares of Helios and Matheson have been tanking for months, and stock prices fell even further this week. Shares are trading for less than a dollar, plunging 46% Wednesday.

Related: MoviePass brings back its movie-per-day subscription

The MoviePass model has drawn attention — and raised eyebrows — since it went public last August with its $10 price point.

In most places, that's just about the cost of a single movie ticket. That means that MoviePass loses money when its customers use a pass, since it must pay theaters for the tickets.

Part of the solution has been to grow subscribers as quickly as possible. MoviePass announced in February that it had reached 2 million subscribers, just one month after it topped 1.5 million. Executives have targeted 5 million by the end of the year.

Helios and Matheson CEO Ted Farnsworth says that should help make the business profitable. In a statement to CNNMoney on Wednesday, he added that the company always knew MoviePass would burn through a lot of money.

"We have access in capital markets to over $300 million," Farnsworth said. "So there is plenty of cash available to sustain the subscriber growth and movie-going habits of our users."

Farnsworth did not elaborate on the $300 million figure in his statement, and he was not immediately available for further comment.

Is MoviePass too good to be true?

Adding more users isn't the company's only business plan. MoviePass has said that it hopes to eventually become profitable by selling more advertising. It has also said in the past that the company collects data on its subscribers it wants to monetize — though executives have walked back the extent to which it uses that information in the wake of the recent Facebook data scandal.

In any case, it's not clear whether MoviePass can generate additional revenue fast enough to please investors, said Eric Wold, an analyst at B. Riley FBR.

"The subscriber growth, I don't think, is an important metric. It's really the usage that you're generating and the data that you're collecting," he said. "You're not at the point where that data is valuable, and I don't know if investors will make that bet ... because it's not going to happen overnight."

Farnsworth, meanwhile, said MoviePass has found ways to cut its expenses. His statement mentioned that the service's "burn rate" has been slashed by 35-40% in the last few weeks because of new "abuse prevention measures." The company announced last month that it would bar subscribers from seeing the same movie more than once.

Again, Wold was skeptical. He questioned whether the new restriction would end up driving some customers away, especially fans of the new "Avengers" or "Star Wars" who might have been banking on MoviePass for repeated viewings.

"I think that's going to be a negative to some people who signed up initially," Wold added. "I wouldn't be surprised if you saw people somewhat turn away from the service now."

CNN article

Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 05-14-2018, 06:45 PM:

I always figured the best thing to do when running a Ponzi would be NOT to tell people you were doing it, but I guess you really do see something new every day.....and I suppose telling everyone sort of makes it legal? Still a terrible idea...

Posted by Harold Hallikainen (Member # 5405) on 05-14-2018, 08:09 PM:

Helios and Matheson (HMNY): Is MoviePass a ‘Unicorn Company’ That Can Make It Through the Investor Fire?

https://www.smarteranalyst.com/bloggers-corner/helios-matheson-hmny-moviepass-unicorn-company-can-make-investor-fire/

It’s not been a great year to be a Helios and Matheson (NASDAQ:HMNY) investor, to say the least. This is the company’s darkest chapter yet as the tech stock’s valuation has plummeted almost 90% in 2018. This all boils down the company’s 92% majority stake in MoviePass, a platform designed to be the future Netflix of the movie theater arena. For a company that was able to magnetize 20,000 to just under 3 million subscribers to its base without even reaching a full year passing, what the hell happened to dash investor confidence in such a blaze?

The idea is to entice subscribers to be the movie theaters to watch a movie per day, for a super cheap monthly fee of $9.95. What was once thought to be a box-office disruption, a game changer much like Netflix is now casting major shadows of doubt upon one key question: the sustainability factor. Sure, MoviePass is popular. Can this fast favorite among the movie theater market regain footing to bring in profits?

HMNY unleashed an SEC filing already in April posting a $150.8 million loss for 2017, quite a climb from the merely $7.4 million loss just two years ago. Additionally, the company pointed to a monthly cash burn rate circling $21.7 million. The top movie-theater chain in the U.S. AMC then held a conference call, which led CEO Adam Aron to poke holes in MoviePass’ price model for its subscription programs and just how long it can last. Then again, AMC has always found MoviePass threatening, dismissing it as a “small fringe player,” intent on shutting the company out from all its profits whatsoever.

Meanwhile, an independent auditor has big skepticism regarding MoviePass’ power to stay in the market. Even 37% of the platform’s very own subscribers cannot help wondering: is this great model ultimately fool’s gold? Then there’s a 32% that based on National Research Group’s latest study anticipate the company simply will not be able to continue long-term.

Next hit Tuesday, which ominously led this stock into sharply falling knife territory for the rest of the week. Another SEC filing unleashed only $15.5 million in available cash to close out April coupled with $27.9 million with merchant processors on deposit. HMNY understands the dire line it is walking here, as the filing points out: “If we are unable to obtain sufficient amounts of additional capital, we may be required to reduce the scope of our planned growth or otherwise alter our business model, objectives and operations, which could harm our business, financial condition and operating results.”

During last month’s yearly theater convention Cinemacon, it was in Las Vegas that MoviePass chief executive Mitch Lowe tried to ease a flurry of concerns from small-scale movie theater chains and their execs. In an interview with Vulture, Lowe commented: “They said, ‘Either you’re going to condition our customers that going to the movies should be less expensive and easier—and then you’re going to go out of business, leaving us holding the bag. Or, (b) you’re going to get so powerful, you’re going to squeeze us dry for all our profits.'”

Lowe countered, “And I said, ‘Both of those are wrong,'” adding, “What we intend to do is re-energize people to go back to the movies. If you want to share some portion of your increased profit with us, you help ensure our success. We don’t do well if you don’t do well. And they all, every single one of them, left here asking me to send them a contract.”

In an era following Facebook’s disastrous Cambridge Analytica privacy data leak, Lowe admits to Vulture his company pools some user data: “Of course we know what movies you’re watching; but we don’t know what car you drive,” continuing: “You’ve told us where you’re going to go to the theater. You said, ‘I want to buy a ticket to the AMC on 42nd Street and it’s a 7:00 showing.’ From that, we can look at all the restaurants and assume that you might like a Starbucks; have a coffee before you go.”

“We never were going to make our data available to others. What we’ve always said to the studios is that we’re using what people want to see and where they go to see it as a way to better market—but we’re doing the marketing,” explains Lowe, who notes that he is certainly learning from Facebook’s shadows: “But all this Facebook stuff has definitely taught us we need to be more clear and transparent with the customer. ‘Here’s what we’re collecting. Here’s what we’re doing with it.’ And you always have the opt out: Don’t use our service.”

While investors are fleeing left and right this week, according to the National Research Group study, subscribers are quite happy with MoviePass, which is pacing to achieve 5 million users by the close of 2018, taking a 9% slice of every movie ticket sale in the U.S. In fact, 83% of users indicate high satisfaction, beating out streamers of the likes of Netflix, Spotify, and even Amazon, with 84% having high odds to suggest others join on board.

MoviePass is playing it smart, not letting its subscribers see any same film twice, and the app will also block users from sneaking non-subscribers in on the deal. In fact, new users are the ones who usually leap to the movies in the opening three months of using MoviePass, an excitement that then simmers, which is financially encouraging. “Eighty-eight percent of our subscribers are already break-even or profitable,” Lowe suggests, pointing out: “That tells you 88 percent of our customers go [to the theaters] once or less a month and 12 percent go more. So the trick is getting our average down to a little over one.”

Maxim analyst Nehal Chokshi is a loyal bull, who may see a cash position starker than predicted, but stronger days of profitability still lie ahead for this challenged tech company boasting great potential. As far as Chokshi eyes the bigger picture, HMNY still is looking at a “path to a sustainable business model” at the end of the day. Any bigger-than-calculated working capital needs do not detract from the analyst’s longer-term estimates at play.

AMC may have taken a swipe at MoviePass, but Chokshi believes these criticisms fail to recognize the company’s actions to scale back cash burn by roughly 35%, according to the infamous Tuesday 8K. This 35% reduction in cash deficit to an around $14 million per month run rate is one the analyst cheers as a “positive.” That said, Chokshi acknowledges that the most strategic trajectory ahead to reaching sustainability in MoviePass’ business is to cap usage.

This tech player remains the standout leader of the movie theater subscription serve battle ground, says the analyst, who highlights that a whopping 91% of U.S. movie theaters have offered the service a nod. Compared to key nemesis Sinemia, MoviePass is a company that has thrived on “word-of-mouth” generating growth as well as viral popularity. With a subscription model offering more optionality, unlike Sinemia which narrows its users to a per month limit on top of a patent infringement lawsuit that could hit hard at Sinemia’s operational prospects, Chokshi gives the clear competitive upper hand to MoviePass.

Worthy of note, even amid this week’s investor scare, the analyst rates a Buy rating on HMNY rating with a $12 price target, which implies a monster 1,835% upside from current levels. (To watch Chokshi’s track record, click here)

“You know, it actually is one of the best things in the world to have a company that no one believes in,” Lowe cheekily says. “Because we have all this free runway to build the business. And suddenly, people are going to turn around and go, ‘Holy crap, look what they’ve done! These guys are unstoppable now. And no one tried to create a competitor.'”

HMNY chief executive Ted Farnsworth expressed to Variety that together with Lowe, they have $280 million, complete with a $375 million line of credit on deck, and these two are not at all worried about capital: “Since day one, people have been saying we’ll run out of money,” asserted Farnsworth, contending: “I assure you capital is not an issue. I’m sitting on hundreds of millions of dollars of dry powder, and I’ve got bankers and debt-financing companies calling me all the time. They know they’re looking at an Uber or an Airbnb. This is a unicorn company.”

When Tuesday hit, Farnsworth came back with even more conviction, indicating to the New York Post, “I’m not worried about the cash burn at all.”

Analyst Ratings

TipRanks indicates a strong bullish consensus is still in this tech player’s corner; for now. All 3 analysts polled in the last 3 months unanimously rate a Buy on HMNY stock. With a mammoth return potential of nearly 2,175%, the stock’s consensus target price towers at $14.33.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-14-2018, 11:04 PM:

If we learn anything from MoviePass, we should learn that people WILL go to the movies more often if they think they're getting a good deal.

As for Mitch Lowe and all those exhibitors asking him to send a contract... Given Lowe's track record with changing the MoviePass user agreement at the drop of a hat, I would prefer to sign a contract with Satan himself rather than that guy.

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 05-26-2018, 12:57 PM:

82% of MoviePass Subscribers Have Gone to a Movie They Never Would Have Directly Paid For

quote:

82% of MoviePass Subscribers Have Gone to a Movie They Never Would Have Directly Paid For
Rob Toledo | May 25, 2018 | Top Picks | No Comments

We, like any movie-loving person, are obsessed with MoviePass. And currently we, like most MoviePass subscribers, are part of the problem when it comes to the service’s survival. Tracking along with our use of MoviePass over the last six months, we have on average gone to at least three movies a month, exceeding the $10/month price paid for the card.

However, while we reviewed the list of movies we attended, there were plenty that we thought back on and said, “Yeah, I never would have paid to see that in theaters” (and please, for the sake of the article, set aside Economics 101 and ignore the fact that we’re still paying for the movie, just indirectly through a subscription). With that in mind, we surveyed 1,311 current self-reporting MoviePass subscribers to see if this was a trend among other subscribers.

We asked the following question:

As a subscriber to MoviePass, have you gone to a movie you normally would have ignored?
Yes 82%
No 13%
Not Sure 5%

While theaters are only reporting a slight uptick in foot traffic since MoviePass got popular, there is no denying that there are now more butts in seats of movies that otherwise might not get as much foot traffic. Perhaps the real winner in a world with MoviePass is the box office rake for “bad” movies.

We also asked for commentary on what specific movies people went to see only because they had MoviePass.

“The Overboard remake, Tomb Raider, a few I’m forgetting. They were all pretty terrible. But I love going to movies so who cares. The more movies I go to, the better deal my monthly MoviePass subscription is.”

“I’m pretty sure the only reason Hurricane Heist made it to theaters is because MoviePass existed and the studio was like, yeah, someone will show up to watch this. Still, I love bad movies. There’s no way I would have paid to see this in theaters, but I definitely would have rented it or something.”

“No, I already go to a lot of movies, MoviePass just made it a whole lot cheaper. I haven’t really changed my behavior.”

“I saw Truth or Dare by myself one morning because I had nothing else to do. I am grateful I used MoviePass to see it.”

“Saw I Feel Pretty, the movie with Amy Schumer on a whim, I actually thought it was pretty good. Still wouldn’t have paid for it though.”

“I didn’t even know there was a new Tomb Raider movie, but a friend brought it up. We went and saw it. It was ok.”

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 06-01-2018, 04:29 PM:

Heard that parent company, Helios and Matheson, for MP just purchased a production company, being Emmett/Furla/Oasis Films, to aid in the generating of revenue for MP and renaming EFO to MoviePass Films.

Linky

quote:

LOS ANGELES--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Helios and Matheson Analytics Inc. (Nasdaq: HMNY) (“Helios”) announced today that Emmett Furla Oasis Films (“EFO Films”) has granted Helios the exclusive option to acquire the entire film library and current production slate of EFO Films. The EFO Films library includes acclaimed titles such as Lone Survivor and Broken City and features A-List actors such as Mark Wahlberg, 50 Cent, Sylvester Stallone, Bruce Willis, Arnold Schwarzenegger, John Travolta, Denzel Washington, Nicolas Cage, Robert De Niro, Al Pacino, Kate Bosworth, Leelee Sobieski, Anna Kendrick and Ellen Burstyn. The EFO Films library also includes the upcoming titles Boss Level starring Naomi Watts, Mel Gibson and Anabelle Wallis, 2Guns, Escape Plan 2 and Escape Plan 3 starring Sylvester Stallone and Dave Bautista, The Irishman starring Robert De Niro, Al Pacino and Jesse Plemons, and The Iconic Video Game ASTEROIDS by ATARI, including others in production, with the goal of 12 to 15 films over the next year.

“To do a deal with Helios and MoviePass is epic for us”
Tweet this

Helios also announced today that it has formed MoviePass Films LLC (“MoviePass Films”) with Emmett Furla Oasis Films (“EFO Films”). Helios owns 51% and EFO Films owns 49% of MoviePass Films. MoviePass Films will focus on studio-driven content and new film production for theatrical release and other distribution channels. Hollywood veterans Randall Emmett and George Furla will serve as Co-CEO’s of MoviePass Films; MoviePass Films’ Chairman of the Board will be Ted Farnsworth. Mitch Lowe will hold a Board seat as well, and Farnsworth and Lowe will work together day-to-day to execute the strategy between MoviePass and MoviePass Films. Terms of the deal were not disclosed, however both parties agreed on a payment in the form cash and stock.

Helios plans to capitalize on the unique capabilities of its subsidiary, MoviePass Inc. (“MoviePass”), to market future MoviePass Films productions to millions of MoviePass subscribers and moviegoers everywhere. MoviePass Films will pay MoviePass for any marketing services provided to market MoviePass Films productions. MoviePass Films will own and control all revenue streams from theatrical release, domestic and foreign distribution rights, streaming, retail, DVD sales, transactional sales, etc.

“To have such a well-known, quality production company join forces with the Helios/MoviePass group of companies is truly remarkable,” said Mitch Lowe, MoviePass’ CEO. “Since we began disrupting the movie industry with our unprecedented low-cost movie theater subscription service, MoviePass™, we have envisioned owning and developing our own studio content and using the power of our several million subscribers to bolster the success of the box office for our films. I believe MoviePass Films will accelerate those efforts and demonstrate the power of MoviePass to drive movie theater attendance and downstream sales, for the benefit of moviegoers, movie theaters, studios and the film entertainment ecosystem as a whole,” concluded Mr. Lowe.

Helios believes its acquisition of the current production slate of EFO Films and the leadership of MoviePass Films by veteran producers Randall Emmett and George Furla will accelerate Helios’ plan to produce its own movies for theatrical release, create new revenue opportunities for MoviePass’ marketing services, fill theater seats throughout the United States for MoviePass Films productions to the benefit of exhibitors, and enable MoviePass Films to participate in box office and downstream revenues from its proprietary content.

“To do a deal with Helios and MoviePass is epic for us,” said Randall Emmett of EFO Films. The MoviePass™ subscription service has totally disrupted the movie industry, for the better. When we worked with MoviePass Ventures on the movie Gotti, starring John Travolta, which premiered at Cannes and is set for release this coming June 15 – I immediately saw how revolutionary the MoviePass™ service is. I have never seen any player in our industry move so quickly and gain such a large following in such a short period of time. What impresses me the most is that MoviePass can guarantee box office attendance, which is a game changer. I don’t believe anybody else can do that,” concluded Mr. Emmett.

“Ever since we co-acquired our first film with MoviePass Ventures, American Animals, which is set for release June 1, we’ve been looking for an opportunity to acquire and produce studio content on a larger scale and prove the power of the MoviePass™ service in the process. We believe we’ve found that opportunity with Emmett Furla Oasis Films. Along with MoviePass Films, MoviePass Ventures, our studio driven production company and our independent film investment division, will play an integral role in our business strategy,” said Ted Farnsworth, Chairman and CEO of Helios. “We believe the track record of Randall Emmett and George Furla over the last twenty years speaks for itself. For MoviePass to have the opportunity to jump in the middle of new high-caliber productions that are already underway, becoming a part of that, is more exciting for Helios and MoviePass than I ever could have imagined,” concluded Mr. Farnsworth.

About MoviePass Inc.

MoviePass Inc. (“MoviePass”) is a marketing technology platform enhancing the exploration of film and the moviegoing experience. As the nation's premier movie-theater subscription service, MoviePass provides film enthusiasts the ability to attend up to one new movie title per day in theaters. The service, now accepted at more than 91% of theaters across the United States, is the nation's largest theater network. Visit us at moviepass.com

About Helios and Matheson Analytics

Helios and Matheson Analytics Inc. (Nasdaq:HMNY) (“Helios”) is a provider of information technology services and solutions, offering a range of technology platforms focusing on big data, artificial intelligence, business intelligence, social listening, and consumer-centric technology. Helios currently owns approximately 92% of the outstanding shares (excluding options and warrants) of MoviePass Inc., the nation's premier movie-theater subscription service. Helios's holdings include RedZone Map™, a safety and navigation app for iOS and Android users, and a community-based ecosystem that features a socially empowered safety map app that enhances mobile GPS navigation using advanced proprietary technology. Helios is headquartered in New York, NY and listed on the Nasdaq Capital Market under the symbol Helios. For more information, visit us at www.hmny.com.

About Emmett Furla Oasis Films

Emmett Furla Oasis Films (“EFO Films”) was founded in 1998 and was a combination of Randall Emmett’s extensive entertainment industry experience and George Furla’s business expertise. In 2013 a collaboration was finalized with Oasis Ventures Entertainment. The success to date has been rooted in EFO Films’ ability to facilitate relationships between top creative talent (including actors, writers, and directors) and companies that produce, finance, and distribute motion pictures. To date, EFO Films has produced over 80 films that have grossed in excess of $1 Billion box office ticket sales worldwide. The films include The Amityville Horror, Rambo, 16 Blocks, End of Watch, Broken City, The Frozen Ground, Escape Plan, 2Guns and Lone Survivor. In 2018 EFO Films is producing a wide range of movies including the following: Martin Scorsese’s Silence, the TUPAC biopic, Extraction and in collaboration with Hasbro the world’s first Monopoly movie and Hungry Hungry Hippos.

Cautionary Statement on Forward-looking Information

Certain statements in this communication contain forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995 or under Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933, as amended, and Section 21E of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, as amended (collectively, “forward-looking statements”) that may not be based on historical fact, but instead relate to future events, including without limitation statements containing the words “believe”, “may”, “plan”, “will”, “estimate”, “continue”, “anticipate”, “intend”, “expect” and similar expressions. All statements other than statements of historical fact included in this communication are forward-looking statements.

Such forward-looking statements are based on a number of assumptions. Although Helios’s management believes that the assumptions made and expectations represented by such statements are reasonable, there can be no assurance that a forward-looking statement contained herein will prove to be accurate. Actual results and developments (including, without limitation, the potential benefits of Helios’s partnership with Emmett Furla Oasis Films through MoviePass Films as described herein) may differ significantly from those expressed or implied by the forward-looking statements contained herein and even if such actual results and developments are realized or substantially realized, there can be no assurance that they will have the expected consequences or effects. Risk factors and other material information concerning Helios and MoviePass are described in its Annual Report on Form 10-K for the fiscal year ended December 31, 2017, its quarterly report on Form 10-Q for the quarter ended March 31, 2018 and other filings, including subsequent current and periodic reports, information statements and registration statements filed with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission. You are cautioned to review such reports and other filings at www.sec.gov.

Given these risks, uncertainties and factors, you are cautioned not to place undue reliance on such forward-looking statements and information, which are qualified in their entirety by this cautionary statement. All forward-looking statements and information made herein are based on Helios’s current expectations and Helios does not undertake an obligation to revise or update such forward-looking statements and information to reflect subsequent events or circumstances, except as required by law.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 06-01-2018, 10:06 PM:

quote:
MoviePass Films will pay MoviePass for any marketing services provided to market MoviePass Films productions. MoviePass Films will own and control all revenue streams from theatrical release, domestic and foreign distribution rights, streaming, retail, DVD sales, transactional sales, etc.

So they are buying this company which will pay them to market their own movies. Hmmm

Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 06-01-2018, 11:50 PM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
So they are buying this company which will pay them to market their own movies.

That's nothing unusual. It's not uncommon for one subsidiary of a company to pay another subsidiary administrative fees or rent (ie, a theater chain's real estate division is paid rent by the chain's operations division; or, its corporate office is paid administrative fees by each theater [which would also typically each be its own legal entity]).

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 07-05-2018, 10:16 PM:

MoviePass’s new business plan is to charge you whatever it wants

quote:
MoviePass is rolling out peak pricing, its own version of surge pricing that will charge customers more to see popular movies during what the company considers “high demand” times.

MoviePass is a subscription movie ticket service that typically costs $9.95 a month to see up to one movie in US theaters per day. The company has been hemorrhaging cash to subsidize these monthly subscriptions, which can cost less than a single movie ticket in some US cities. MoviePass parent company Helios and Matheson reported spending $40 million more in cash than it brought in for the month of May, and it expected that gap to increase to $45 million for the month of June.

The company is looking to raise another $1.2 billion by selling stock and debt. But if MoviePass wants to survive, it also needs to start losing less money on its subscribers, and fast.

That’s where peak pricing comes in. MoviePass was vague on the details when it teased peak pricing in late June, and it hardly cleared things up in an email to users today (July 5).

“Peak Pricing goes into effect when there’s high demand for a movie or showtime,” MoviePass wrote in its email. “You may be asked to pay a small additional fee depending on the level of demand.” Movies currently experiencing peak pricing will be marked with a red circle containing a white lightening bolt; movies growing in demand that “could enter Peak Pricing soon” will get a gray version of the icon.

How much will the “small additional fee” be? In June, MoviePass CEO Mitch Lowe said the surcharges would be $2 or more. In the example MoviePass emailed to users today, the extra fee is $3.43. “Note: the actual Peak Pricing surcharge will vary based on showtime and movie title,” MoviePass unhelpfully supplies.

MoviePass’s online support page, updated earlier today, is similarly unhelpful. “Movies that are high in demand for title, date, or time of day will be impacted,” MoviePass advises. Peak pricing “will be based on movie demand so some weekends will have it, and others will not.” MoviePass, in other words, will charge you whatever it wants.

Zach Salk, a spokesman for MoviePass, said in an emailed statement that MoviePass is “still in a testing period” with peak pricing. To start, he said, members could expect surcharges of $2 to $6, depending on the film and showtime. Peak pricing will roll out to all MoviePass members in the next few weeks, except for quarterly and annual members, who won’t see it until their plans renew. MoviePass also plans to let each user waive one peak fee per month.

If past startups are a guide, hidden fees are almost always a bad sign. Many on-demand delivery companies, struggling to make their businesses work, have used opaque markups and “service” fees to try to increase margins. Shortly before meal delivery service Maple went under, it stopped giving out free cookies and added in a delivery fee.

In MoviePass’s case, an added fee of $2 or $3.43 might not sound like much, but for the company it could be significant. After all, those surcharges are 20% and 34%, respectively, of the monthly $9.95 subscription fee. They could go a long way toward helping MoviePass effectively raise prices without officially increasingly its sticker price.

Will people choose to pay? The answer seems likely to be yes. A lot of people might not have that many options for when they can get away for the time needed to see a film. And paying an extra $2 to $4 is still going to be cheaper than paying full price for a movie theater ticket, especially when you’ve already sunk $9.95 into that month’s MoviePass subscription.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 07-06-2018, 01:55 AM:

I'm getting dizzy by the amount of business model changes this company runs through in just a month or so. It's like this company is being run by a bunch of kids suffering from ADHD while being high on crack.

Next week their business model will be taking your grandmother hostage while you're out to the movies and asking for a small, but random fee to release her.

Mitch Lowe are you listening? Is there anybody in there? A business, no matter how cool, out-of-the-box or disruptive it is supposed to be works on a very simple basis: You take more money in than you spend. Try to figure that one out first, it might save you and your fellow investor douches a couple of billions.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 07-06-2018, 04:54 PM:

Helios and Matheson Analytics

Now, here is a question that one might have to ask:

What's going on with this parent company?

Why are they hanging on to this massive white elephant that's losing them money left and right, stocks have plummeted to an all-time low, et.al.

They're the ones not making any sense, not MP.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 07-07-2018, 04:43 AM:

Isn't it obvious? They're the ones who get the big paycheck once this whole thing gets taken over by some bigshot investor for a few billion or the whole thing goes public.

Obviously, the chances of none of this ever happening are pretty real, but they're probably in it so deep, the only way to get forward is to try to find someone willing to bail them out.

Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 07-07-2018, 09:08 PM:

"Ponzis" are only illegal for investment advisors who claim to be investing funds for individuals. But a company with a garbage business plan can do it all day, it's out in the open and enough stupid people/corporations/banks seem to have funded it so far. Governments of course operate on the same principle except that everyone has no choice but to fund them....

Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 07-07-2018, 10:06 PM:

quote: Dave Bird
"Ponzis" are only illegal for investment advisors who claim to be investing funds for individuals. But a company with a garbage business plan can do it all day, it's out in the open and enough stupid people/corporations/banks seem to have funded it so far. Governments of course operate on the same principle except that everyone has no choice but to fund them....

Exactly. Remember how many startups lost hundreds of millions and failed in the "dot com boom?" For every Amazon there were 10 etoys. Companies that burned through venture capital and IPO investment like a wildfire through California. They spent tens of millions on nonsensical affiliate programs (paying affiliates more commission than they were profiting on sales) and other marketing/advertising.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 07-09-2018, 05:10 AM:

Buzzword has it that Helios and Mathewson have now flooded the market with over 3500% increase of available stock, and at 19 cents a share, HM is building up big hopes that this white elephant will soon turn to gold.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 07-09-2018, 09:21 AM:

quote: Dave Bird
"Ponzis" are only illegal for investment advisors who claim to be investing funds for individuals.

Ponzi schemes are only legal for entities holding a banking license. [Wink]

But MP isn't a Ponzi scheme*, it's just one of those many "We have a gazillion users, but only haven't figured out how to make money out of them." business out there. It's a lot like stuff like Twitter, the only reason they're still alive is because enough people still believe eventually a money-making business plan will magically appear.

* Big fat disclaimer here: This might be based on out-dated information. MP's business plan of the day might possibly contain one or more Ponzi schemes.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 07-24-2018, 03:21 PM:

A couple of articles about MoviePass's latest efforts to pull itself out of the toilet. The more I read about Ted Farnsworth, the more glad I am to be an independent exhibitor and not affiliated with that arrogant &#$!%@.

MoviePass Head Teases Ways It Will “Flip Hollywood On Its Ear Again” After Shareholders Back Revival Plan
by Dade Hayes
July 24, 2018 8:51am

Ted Farnsworth, head of MoviePass parent Helios & Matheson, teased the rollout of a Rotten Tomatoes-like ratings service and other “disruptions” over the next 90 days during a conference keynote this morning in New York.

“You’re going to see a lot of disruption from us in the next 90 days that’s going to flip Hollywood on its ear again,” Farnsworth said during the session kicking off the Media & Entertainment Services Alliance event. He briefly alluded to the ratings guide during the session, but declined to offer specifics on the other “disruptions” in a brief follow-up interview with Deadline.

The title of Farnsworth’s session may have struck some investors as curious: “Disruption in the Movie Business: Monetizing the MoviePass Effect.” Monetization is much on the minds of shareholders these days as the company piles up losses and has warned of needing to raise up to $1.2 billion in new financing in order to survive. At a special meeting yesterday, shareholders voted to approve two measures aimed at staving off a potential de-listing by the Nasdaq as Helios & Matheson stock hovers below a dime a share. Last fall it reached $38 a share amid euphoric optimism over the $10-a-month service.

Asked by one conference attendee about when the company expects to break even, Farnsworth said it could do so with revenue between $150 million and $180 million from now to year-end. (Revenue last quarter was $58.5 million.) While the company recently disclosed losing $45 million in June alone, it blamed the intensity of summer moviegoing.

Customer data — the ultimate coinage MoviePass aims to transact with — got a lot of attention during the keynote session, but it has not yet meaningfully benefited the balance sheet. “It’s a challenge to put a value on it right now,” Farnsworth conceded, though he predicted more of the company’s revenue in the third and fourth quarters will be derived from non-subscription sources. Eighteen different distributors have contracted with MoviePass to use its data in making production and marketing decisions, he said. “The studios have embraced us because we have the data. They are getting that data and they are seeing how to better feed the audience.”

Farnsworth, in a session mostly devoted to audience questions rather than a presentation, said the company’s coming milestone in terms of membership will reverse the widely held skepticism about the company. When it hits its expected target of 5 million subscribers by year-end (it hit 3 million in late spring), “that’s when people are really going to wake up,” he said. “We’ll be controlling a lot of the movies, over 50% of the box office. That’s big-sized studios as well.” As to the shots across the bow that land daily from AMC and major studios, Farnsworth shrugged, “To be honest with you, if I were in their position, I’d have a full-out war against us, too, because somebody is threatening my every day business.”

Shares in MoviePass parent Helios & Matheson Analytics, already under immense pressure in recent weeks, hit a new 52-week low yesterday, touching 8.2 cents a share before closing at 9.78 cents. They are largely unchanged so far today.

At a special meeting held at the company’s WeWork offices in the New York’s Empire State Building, shareholders backed management dramatically boosting the number of outstanding shares to 5 billion from about 500 million. The new shares would offer more flexibility to the company as it shores up investment support.

The other measure receiving a green light from shareholders was a reverse stock split, which management could set at anywhere from 1-to-2 to 1-to-250. A reverse split is commonly used to prop up a faltering share price.

Helios disclosed in June that it had been warned by the Nasdaq that extended periods of trading below $1 would result in the company being de-listed, which would be a serious blow to its ambitions.

Asked by Deadline for his view of the shareholder meeting, Farnsworth said it “gave us what we need” in terms of securing a publicly traded future. “It all went very well.”
Deadline article
.
.

'It is a full blown war going on': The CEO of MoviePass' parent company wants to use its subscribers as an army against traditional theaters (HMNY)
by Graham Rapier
Jul. 24, 2018, 07:36 AM

HMNY, which owns 92% of MoviePass, doubled down on the company's bet against traditional theaters on Monday. "Make no bones about it, it is a full blown war going on," CEO Ted Farnsworth told shareholders at a special meeting.

Investors approved two proposals at the meeting that could help the company avoid being booted from the Nasdaq stock exchange.

MoviePass’ war against traditional movie theaters is still in its infancy, the chief executive of its parent company, Helios & Matheson, told a specially-convened group of roughly 30 shareholders on Monday.

From the 67th floor of New York's iconic Empire State Building, CEO Ted Farnsworth declared to a packed conference room of investors that MoviePass, the subscription service of which his company owns a 92% stake, plans to use its enthusiastic subscriber base as an infantry in its fight against major Hollywood theatre chains.
"Make no bones about it, it is a full blow war going on, especially with AMC," Farnsworth told the room of investors, who were largely optimistic, despite shares plunging more than 99% from their October highs.

"The theaters don't like us because we're too powerful too quick," he said. "We know with all the independent research that's out there, if we ask somebody to go to a Regal instead of an AMC, 50% of the time they'll go to Regal. They realize that at the end of the day we're gaining all this power with the consumer base. That was always the play, having leverage over the theaters."

Still, MoviePass and its owner HMNY have a long way to go before they can declare victory. Last month, the company received notice from Nasdaq that it would be delisted if it fails to maintain a stock price above $1 and a minimum market cap of $50 million, per the stock exchange's requirements.

Shortly after, it called the special meeting with two proposals designed to help its struggling shares.

Stockholders approved both measures at the meeting on Monday. The first allows the company to issue 4.5 billion new shares of stock, increasing the total number of shares outstanding to 5 billion from 500 million. The second gives the company the ability to perform a so-called reverse stock split. Management can now increase the stock's price by consolidating shares by a ratio of between 2-for-1 to 250-for-1, at its discretion. Executives did not say when or by how much they would utilize each of their new options.

Despite the approvals, some investors weren't happy with the company's response to the stock's drastic fall from a high of $38.52 last year.

"As the stock price has plummeted, I’ve been concerned about the lack of communication from the company explaining what’s going on or assuring investors," one shareholder told Farnsworth and other executives. "There’s never been any sort of formal communication to the shareholders explaining what you think is going on, what the problem is with the stock going down so much, and what steps you’re going to take to fight that battle."

Other investors voiced concerns that their holdings would only be diluted further by the potential stock offerings.

"Nobody gets diluted more than I do during all this dilution," Farnsworth, who owns 2.14% of the company, said. "We are obviously in a place where this company has grown so quick so fast that it continues to need money, especially for MoviePass."

Farnsworth also addressed concerns that MoviePass may never become profitable, saying the company is on track to post a profit when it hits 5 million subscribers, though he did not provide an update on current subscriber numbers.

"What people really don't realize, is it's not about making money on the subscribers," he continued, touting investments by MoviePass in movies like Gotti and American Animals, both of which have posted solid box-office numbers since their release.

"It's a fastest-growing paid subscription ever in the history of the internet — period," Farnsworth said. "So you're not going to go through that without headaches."

Business Insider article

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 07-24-2018, 05:14 PM:

8 cents a share, but who really wants to fund a dying business so other people can see free movies on your dime?

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 07-27-2018, 11:47 AM:

Apparently they ran out of Money Thursday night and had to borrow $5 million.

https://www.businessinsider.com/moviepass-outage-caused-by-company-temporarily-running-out-of-cash-2018-7

quote:
The MoviePass outage was caused by the company temporarily running out of cash, and it borrowed $5 million to turn the service back on

In a Securities and Exchange Commission filing on Friday, the owner of MoviePass, Helios and Matheson Analytics, disclosed that it had borrowed $5 million in cash following a "service interruption" on Thursday because the company was unable to make certain required payments.

In other words: On Thursday it ran out of cash, at least temporarily.

"The $5.0 million cash proceeds received from the Demand Note will be used by the Company to pay the Company's merchant and fulfillment processors," the filing said. "If the Company is unable to make required payments to its merchant and fulfillment processors, the merchant and fulfillment processors may cease processing payments for MoviePass, Inc. ('MoviePass'), which would cause a MoviePass service interruption. Such a service interruption occurred on July 26, 2018."

On Thursday evening, MoviePass began tweeting about what it said was "an issue that is preventing users from checking-in to movies."

Later, it said it was "still experiencing technical issues with our card-based check-in process

As of Friday morning, many MoviePass subscribers still couldn't use the full functionality of the app.

Helios and Matheson borrowed the cash from Hudson Bay Capital Management, according to the filing. The total demand note was for $6.2 million, "which includes $5.0 million in cash borrowed by the Company from the Holder and $1.2 million of original issue discount," it said.

Earlier this week, Helios and Matheson did a reverse stock split, bumping shares to about $14 from $0.09 on Wednesday. The company was at risk of being delisted from the Nasdaq by mid-December if it continued to trade below $1 with a market cap under $50 million. At the start of trading on Friday, the stock was about $6.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 07-27-2018, 03:23 PM:

^ ^ ^ ^ First MoviePass-related article not to contain a bunch of arrogant quotes from Farnsworth.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 07-27-2018, 03:45 PM:

$6.00 a share is still long shot from almost $39.00 a share before H&M took on this white elephant .. and the investors are still not happy.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 07-27-2018, 04:33 PM:

I've read the news on some other sites also. Some major "outages" happened in the past week, which now seem to relate to cash flow issues. Bummer if you just subscribed and prepaid for a year...

So, they got some emergency loan of $5M and probably had to leave a significant amount of their stock at the door...

But how long will $5M last them? It looks like they're not even going to last through August if no-one is going to bail them out.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 07-27-2018, 05:15 PM:

Well, we already know who they will blame when that happens - the criminal cinema operators and chains who killed their beneficial business model right when it was about to lift off.

- Carsten

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 07-27-2018, 05:18 PM:

"last through August"?

They'll barely last TO August.

I've seen articles stating that they're going through about $20 million per month. So $5 million gets them about one more week.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 07-27-2018, 05:26 PM:

I was looking at the feature release schedules for the rest of the year.

After Mi6, the first of August looks promising with Christopher Robin, but the following weeks, business begins to wind down until school starts up again

Then, from Sept to November, there are just some spotty releases that looks promising to be descent tentpole releases, yet there were others that looks like filler releases.

This slow period could help MP catch its breath, yet it could backfire with increased attendance from MP users wanting to use the service to see these filler releases than the regular paying customer who may want to save their monies for better releases that comes in November to the end of the year.

Kind of fun watching this MP circus.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 07-27-2018, 05:53 PM:

quote: Frank Cox
I've seen articles stating that they're going through about $20 million per month. So $5 million gets them about one more week.

Yes, but I guess their parent company will also inject some additional cash after their last stock split and they'll probably also see some cash coming in from new subscriptions.

It would be interesting to see how much of a throttle the recent news is on them signing up new members.

quote: Carsten Kurz
Well, we already know who they will blame when that happens - the criminal cinema operators and chains who killed their beneficial business model right when it was about to lift off.

It's always the other guy's fault, isn't it? [Smile]

I don't believe anybody reasonable will really believe them though. Most articles I've read, were pretty critical about their business model and many of them were loudly speculating about how long they'll last.

PS: Just wondering what your solution/procedure is when somebody shows up with an MP that won't authorize? I guess you'll just let him/her pay for a regular ticket with an alternative payment method or are you willing to provide any kind of discount?

PPS: Right now, the MP site is showing an error: Error getting available plans... A real glitch or a sign of things to come? The registration site is still available via the "backdoor".

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 07-27-2018, 07:30 PM:

quote: Marcel Birgelen
Just wondering what your solution/procedure is when somebody shows up with an MP that won't authorize?

Basically, it depends on the app where it does show the list of features that one venue is showing. It a feature isn't open for MP usage, it's blacked out to prevent a purchase.

Otherwise, it's just a matter if the card is accepted, or declined, and declined cards usually comes from the user not doing the procedure correctly - like be at a certain distance from the venue so the GPS in the phone can tell MP that the cardholder is close to the venue to allow the credit to be placed on the card.

Quite fun to see people getting up to the tix counter and find out that their card didn't get activated.

There are cases where the customer "blames" the venue for their demise (we just read this before) and the comment returned is that the venue is no way or form in partnership with MP.

The customer must settle with MP, or could easily lose their account. It's right there in the policy for MP.

The only sincere disadvantage is when the credit card systems go down where cards can't be used for the time being.

Thus, the customer is told to contact MP and have the credit returned to MP for another day and time.

They can pay with cash easily enough.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 07-27-2018, 10:20 PM:

Why would you consider giving a MP subscriber a discount, just because they couldn't get their app to work?

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 07-28-2018, 02:00 AM:

Sorry, I realize that I wasn't particularly clear in my question. Since they're so cash-strapped, I guess we'll see more of those "outages" in the coming weeks. So, it's not just the customer not getting their own stuff to work, it's MoviePass leaving their subscribers in the rain.

Now, you certainly don't owe any of those subscribers anything, but I guess that those people that show up at your doorstep or even at your box office and end up being "screwed" by MoviePass end up being pretty frustrated. Now, we all know how people tend to react and they often project their frustrations at the easiest target, being you. And although that's obviously not fair, it will just happen.

So, maybe it could be a nice marketing trick to ease their frustrations by offering them a little discount. You explain to them... look, we can't technically do anything for you, it's not our stuff that's not working, but I know you're frustrated, but as a MoviePass "victim" I can offer you the ticket at a discount... Maybe you've just invested into a return customer.

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 07-28-2018, 09:19 AM:

A couple of times we've had the cards declined. They've just paid cash instead without any complaining. One told me she got a refund from MP later.

The other one, I teased her about it, telling her to get as much out of it as she could. She replied, "Oh, I've seen over $600 in movies."

Gotta love their business model.

Posted by Buck Wilson (Member # 5885) on 07-28-2018, 12:31 PM:

I was working box office Thursday when the server went down, had to turn away a dozen or so people over the course of the evening. I just figured it was yet another outage, it wasn't the first time.

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 07-28-2018, 04:37 PM:

Marcel, I know exactly what you are saying. I have had a number of MP customers get angry at me when their card didn't work because they didn't check in properly, or for any other reason. They don't really care that we are unaffiliated, we are the theatre that is not letting them buy their ticket.

The other day we had someone come unglued because a child ticket got run up on their MP card. They didn't care about the fact that they asked for a child ticket as they handed over their card. We should have anticipated they were going to pay for the adult ticket with the card, even though they handed to us as they asked for a child's ticket without anything else.

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 07-30-2018, 12:39 AM:

The most popular movie, Mission Impossible, apparently remains off limits to MP users except the E-ticketing theatres. That's not just any theatres offering electronic ticketing but refers to a select few that have made deals with MoviePass for (one presumes) discounts. I'm guessing the point is to steer business to them.

They are few and far between but presumably those that caved to MoviePass will get extra business and MP can tout that as a benefit for making the deal.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 07-30-2018, 07:20 PM:

So are they expecting all the non-AMC chains to now start flocking to them to make an e-ticketing deal? I don't see that happening...more likely, all the other chains are busy right now, creating their own subscription plans so they can rope in MoviePass ex-patriots in a few weeks.

Posted by Jonathan M. Crist (Member # 413) on 07-30-2018, 07:29 PM:

It looks as if MoviePass wont last more than the next couple of weeks.

Last Tuesday, Moviepass's controlling company Helios and Matheson Analytics [HMNY] did a 250 to 1 Reverse Stock Split (meaning you got one share for every 250 shares you had before). The idea was to lift the stock price from .08 a share on last Tuesday's closing to opening of $21.00 on Wednesday. Since the Wednesday opening HMNY stock has again plummeted from $21.00 Wednesday morning to close at just .80 cents a share today on Monday.

Meanwhile last Thursday they ran out of cash and the MoviePass cards did not work and HMNY had to borrow emergency funds at terms that would make even a payday lender blush.

This afternoon MoviePass CEO Mitch Lowe announced that Moviepass would not be able to be used for major titles in the future. I would guess that the people who have recently signed up for a full year plan are especially upset.

MoviePass Not Available for Major Titles

It is also now coming out that HMNY was created out of an Indian based company accused of major fraud in its home base of India.
The purchase of MoviePass now makes sense. Soon after HMNY bought MoviePass the HMNY stock - which had been trading at about $2.50 for the year before it acquired MoviePass - briefly ballooned in October 2017 on the bally-ho acquisition news up to $38.00 per share. This brief bump in the HMNY stock on the MoviePass acquistion news allowed those HMNY stock owners in India to cash out in November 2017 when the HMNY stock was still riding high and the MoviePass cash drain had not started in earnest.

Indian Fraud Tale

This will make a great movie. I just wonder who will play Mitch Lowe and Ted Farnsworth.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 07-30-2018, 11:12 PM:

I got a kick out of this stuff from the MoviePass "Open Letter"

quote:
We ask for your understanding and vocal support during this time, as we continue to fundamentally change an industry that hasn’t evolved much in years. In fact, ticket prices have risen so much that it’s now simply too expensive for many of us to go to the movies.

MoviePass’ mission is to make moviegoing accessible to everyone and to enhance the power of discovery – but we need your support as we refine our model for the long-haul.

Can’t find the movie you want to see on the app? Go to Twitter and let the studio behind it know. Want more e-ticketing theater options in your area, so that the movies you want to see peak less? Let your theater know you want them to partner with MoviePass.

Okay, so... we haven't evolved much in years. He's right... I mean, besides digital cinema, luxury seating, dine-in, 3-D, PLF, surround sound, Atmos, DBox/Auro, reserved seats, and advanced ticket purchases through the web, we haven't evolved at all!

Tickets haven't gone up that much, adjusted for inflation. They've gone up some, yes. But the most popular experience has gotten more premium and expensive. Of course it's going to cost more. Their "model" plays right into the some of today's generation's sense of entitlement....everything should be bigger, better and faster...but cost less (or be free). Even here in Nowhere, Montana, costs are higher because we bring in more movies on the break because that's what people want.

Then he's inciting people to pester the studios via Twitter that their favorite theater isn't on MoviePass. Yeah, like the studios are going to convince anyone to jump on this sinking ship.

Anyway, I'm hoping nobody tells me that they want me to "partner with MoviePass." I'll have a hard time not laughing.

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 07-31-2018, 12:55 AM:

Going back to the 60's, the average price of a movie ticket has more or less tracked with inflation. Although the average ticket price is higher than the federal minimum wage right now, that has more to do with the minimum wage not rising for nearly 10 years (I'm not trying to start a debate on this issue).

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 07-31-2018, 03:50 AM:

Went down again on Monday (7-30-18). Social media is exploding.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 07-31-2018, 06:54 AM:

Had some friends from the U.S. over yesterday. One of them is a MoviePass subscriber for over half a year, so I had a little chat about his experience.

According to him, it has been a hit-and-miss most of the time. In the beginning, it mostly went fine, besides the app often crapping out at the moment he arrived at the theater.

At least according to him, they've been playing this game to discourage subscribers from actually using the service for a while now:

Those missing showtimes for popular features is nothing new or when they're listed you would often get a random error while trying to book them. Some theaters were not listed at all or were listed, but offered no show times. In some cases, the show times weren't up to date and listing the show times from a while ago. Also, his favorite theater was only available on Thursday, the day all tickets sold for $5...

He ended paying full price for the movies he really wanted to see. Not being able to reserve your seat while most others get the opportunity, often ends up with you being stuck in a shitty seat.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 07-31-2018, 02:36 PM:

Heard new buzz that Mitch Lowe made the announcement that the new releases of "Chris Robin" and "The Meg" will not be available for MP users-total lockout.

...tick...tick...tick...!

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 07-31-2018, 03:26 PM:

An interesting and probably mostly honest view by The Verge on MoviePass (YouTube)

The app seems to be showing "There are no more screenings at this theater today" for any location right now, whereas earlier this day it seemingly wasn't even able to get the listings.

Meanwhile HMNY took another dive today of roughly 38% and they closed on exactly 50 cents a share. So, they're now into pink sheets territory.

To me it looks like this is the end. The only thing that can save them now is some moronic investor sinking a shit-ton of money into this beast, but by now, the brand seems to be almost toxic.

At last, here are my 50 cents a share: Shut it down!

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 07-31-2018, 03:48 PM:

Just announced they are raising the subscription price to $14.95 a month, but still won't have new, big movies available. The website still touts the $9.95 plan...get it before it goes up, folks!

These moves are supposed to bring them to profitability faster!

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 07-31-2018, 04:22 PM:

Plus, even at 50 cents a share, who is going to let their money go for someone else to enjoy a film for free?

Maybe a clan of members of sorts so they can support others..

..go figure.

Posted by Rick Cohen (Member # 6140) on 07-31-2018, 05:10 PM:

Anybody interested in buying 2,000,000,000 shares of MoviePass for .01 each? Asking for a friend.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 07-31-2018, 05:29 PM:

This must be one of the "headaches" Farnsworth was talking about when he made this statement....

quote: Mike Blakesley
"It's a fastest-growing paid subscription ever in the history of the internet — period," Farnsworth said. "So you're not going to go through that without headaches."

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 07-31-2018, 08:47 PM:

I looked at the MP Facebook page and the one positive thing I can say is, at least nobody seems to be blaming the theaters. I suppose when MP folds up its tent, they'll try to place blame on the bad'ol movie theater industry but hopefully people are too smart to fall for that.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 08-01-2018, 01:56 PM:

Ive talked to some who are card holders and are aware of this destruction of MP.

They're blaming the serious fraud issues and the mismanagement of getting an organization started that is killing this service.

Yep, the price you pay for something free. Not a great reward at times.

-Monte

Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 08-01-2018, 07:11 PM:

Our local CBS station carried a story this morning on Pass on the MP.

Not a pretty picture they painted.

KEN

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 08-01-2018, 09:52 PM:

I was watching the app today. MI still grayed out as expected. I didn't see any surcharges but most popular times are simply not listed. You can use MP for an early matinee or for a late night show but that's all.

My monthly renewal date is the 20th. We should have a better sense by then (if they are still in business). If it is not saving me money then I'm done. I will likely sign up with AMC.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 08-02-2018, 01:51 AM:

quote: Monte L Fullmer
They're blaming the serious fraud issues and the mismanagement of getting an organization started that is killing this service.

Maybe it's simply their business model that's borderline fraud?

If I would start a bank where I would give you 5 dollars on top of every 10 dollars you check out of your account, then I bet you that people would start to line up to join.

And why would anybody mind the huge piles of cash we're burning? We've got millions of customers, we'll figure something out to make money from them, right?

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 08-06-2018, 01:36 PM:

MoviePass will limit customers to three movies per month

quote:
MoviePass, the struggling movie subscription service, will limit customers to three movies per month.

The company is trying to burn less cash so it can stay in business.

Under the previous plan, customers could see one movie per day in theaters. The change to three movies per month takes effect August 15. MoviePass says 85% of its customers already see no more than three per month.

"It has become clear that a small number — only 15 percent — of the subscriber base has been stressing the system," Ted Farnsworth, the CEO of parent company Helios and Matheson (HMNY), said in a news release.

If a subscriber wants to see more than three movies per month, the company will offer a discount of up to $5 on additional movie tickets.

The company also announced Monday that it will keep the monthly subscription price at $9.99. It is backing away from a plan, announced just last week, to raise the price to $14.99.

As part of its new model, MoviePass is doing away with a bunch of other changes, too.

The company will suspend surge pricing, which sometimes added as much as $8 to the cost of an individual ticket. And it will no longer enforce ticket verification, which required users to take a picture of their ticket stub and submit it to the company as a way to stop abuse of the service.

The new plan will also include "many major studio first-run films," according to the company. That reverses a change announced last week that would have cut access to blockbusters within the first two weeks of release.

MoviePass CEO Mitch Lowe described the changes in an interview earlier Monday with The Wall Street Journal.

"I should have accelerated the process of reducing the burn faster in hindsight," he told the newspaper. "Now I realize no matter how patient investors say they will be, they never are."

Helios and Matheson stock has plunged as investors have grown increasingly doubtful about the viability of MoviePass.

The stock plunged from $39 last October to just 8 cents last month. The company approved a reverse split — a cosmetic change that boosted the stock 250-fold, back up to $21. Since then it's fallen all the way back to 7 cents.

The stock gained 2 cents on Monday after the new plan was announced.

Two weeks ago, the company also borrowed $5 million in cash to pay its merchant and fulfillment processors after it had a service outage and couldn't afford to pay for movie tickets. It later said it paid back that loan.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-06-2018, 08:34 PM:

So they're just ditching their current "9.95" plan and raising the price of the current "7.95" plan to $9.95.

I suppose the whole $14.95 thing was a trial balloon to see if everybody got really pissed off...which they did, hence this new plan.

It'll still only work if the majority of their customers see less than one movie a month on average, since the average ticket price in the U.S. is $9+.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-07-2018, 03:37 PM:

So, avid moviegoers, stay away, dammit! Make room for those occasional moviegoers.

Mitch Lowe still doesn't get it, as shown in this excerpt from the article:

quote: Mitch Lowe
"We've learned that going to the exhibitors and looking for a discount is not the right approach, because that discount comes out of the studio share and then we expect the studios to pay us to promote the film and it's like double dipping."

No it doesn't come out of the studio share, you idiot -- it comes out of the theater's profits, which are meager on the tickets to start with! That's why nobody wants to work with you.

Anyway, here's the whole article (with bullet points).

MoviePass' CEO says he will focus on the 'occasional moviegoer' and has a new strategy for working with theaters

- MoviePass CEO Mitch Lowe told Business Insider the mission of the company now is to focus on the "occasional moviegoer."

- He said 40% of cost of goods sold were from the 15% of subscribers who used MoviePass four or more times a month.

- On Monday MoviePass announced it was keeping its monthly subscription price at $9.95 — but limiting the number of movies you can see to three a month.

- Lowe said the company would also attempt to make deals with movie theaters and studios to get a more favorable marketing fee to promote movies.

- MoviePass has been trying to get discounted bulk-ticketing prices but has not been successful.

MoviePass has a new mission: "Reenergize the occasional moviegoer."

That's how the company's CEO Mitch Lowe described it to Business Insider on Monday after announcing that his company was keeping the price at $9.95 a month (and nixing surge pricing and ticket verification), but capping subscribers at three movies a month , beginning August 15.

The app gained millions of new subscribers beginning in August 2017 when it changed its monthly subscription price to $10 a month (to see one movie per day). But what MoviePass didn't realize was a small core group of its users would really take their viewing to the upper limits of the service, Lowe said.

A major reason MoviePass has been burning through an estimated $45 million a month is that it has to pay movie theaters the full ticket price for most of the millions of tickets its subscribers order.

"A small amount of our subscribers, that 15% that would go to four or more [per month], go to a lot of movies. A lot!" Lowe said. "It's almost half of our cost of goods, like 40% of our cost of goods are used by that 15%."

These subscribers went to everything from the biggest movies of the year like "Black Panther" and "Avengers: Infinity War" to hit indies like "Hereditary" and the documentary "Three Identical Strangers." Lowe said, initially the thought was that putting a surge price on the popular films would slow things down, however people were paying it.

Then MoviePass got more dramatic and announced the monthly plan would go up to $14.95 and the big Hollywood releases would no longer be available on the app. But that didn't work either.

"The e-ticketing theaters, which haven't been affected in this whole thing, have gone up almost 75% over the last couple of weeks," Lowe said. These e-ticketing theaters give MoviePass a discount in exchange for promotion in the app.

So to attract just the casual MoviePass users — who spend $40 to $50 a year at the movies — which Lowe said represent 85% of its subscribers, the monthly plan will stay at the attractive $9.95 monthly offer. (If you want to go to the movies more than three times a month, MoviePass will offer discounts of $2 to $5 a ticket if you book through the MoviePass app.)

Lowe said he was confident that would decrease the burn substantially and get Wall Street back on board.

"I have had billion-dollar VCs tell me, 'If you would only put a cap on your costs we would invest and be right behind you,'" Lowe said. "I never did it because my investors kept telling me, 'We're behind you, we know it's going to take a lot of time,' and then suddenly they stopped saying that."

The stock of MoviePass' parent company, Helios and Matheson (HMNY), plunged to 7 cents last Friday, an all-time low . This came after the company did a 1-for-250 reverse stock split to pull it out of danger of getting delisted from the Nasdaq starting mid-December. It didn't work. (The stock was trading around 8 cents on Monday).

With the pivot to focus on the occasional moviegoer, Lowe admitted it would be more of a challenge to get to his goal of 5 million subscribers by the end of the year. But it may be more important to build better relationships within the industry than focus on subscription numbers.

For some time, MoviePass has tried to make bulk price movie-ticket deals with theaters so it didn't have to pay full ticket price on the millions its subscribers order on the app. Lowe said the progress has been happening "really slowly" to get exhibitors on board. So Lowe said MoviePass now has a new plan.

"We've learned that going to the exhibitors and looking for a discount is not the right approach, because that discount comes out of the studio share and then we expect the studios to pay us to promote the film and it's like double dipping, so we have changed our model," Lowe said. "We are just about to roll out to exhibitors that we'll continue to pay full price, but we want to negotiate with them a fair marketing fee."

So MoviePass wants to get a better marketing fee from exhibitors and studios on their movies it highlights on its app, social media, and other platforms. MoviePass boasts that it's responsible for 6% of the 2018 box office (which is up 8% from last year ) and believes with the inroads it has made on the marketing side with movie theaters and studios, that it can land a good deal, versus discounted tickets. (According to Helios and Matheson's most recent quarterly report, marketing and promotion made up $1.4 million of MoviePass' revenue in the first three months of 2018).

"I went in with a pay-for-performance approach to both the exhibitors and the studios, and I found it didn't work within the system and it caused all kinds of challenges," Lowe said. "So we think we now have a way to do this that fits in with how business is done."

Despite all the challenges MoviePass has faced, Lowe said he was optimistic, adding that new services like bring-a-friend, which allows MoviePass subscribers to pay for a non-subscriber ticket, and an option to order a ticket to a non-2D movie (like IMAX or Real 3D), would be available in the next month.

"We've got a couple of tricks up our sleeve," Lowe said.

Business Insider article

Posted by Harold Hallikainen (Member # 5405) on 08-07-2018, 03:55 PM:

The tale continues! I think the subscriptions or discount programs offered by individual circuits have quite a bit more benefit. I call it the "Costco effect." You've paid your membership fee, so that's where you're going to shop so you get your money's worth. With Movie Pass working with every theater, there is no advantage gained by an individual exhibitor (other than, maybe, being listed at the top of the application), so exhibitors are unlikely to pay anything. With my Denver Film Society membership, I get a ticket discount there, so I'm more likely to see a movie there than elsewhere. On the studio side, they are the only ones with that particular movie, so they don't need to offer a discount to get people away from the competition. Instead, they need to get the general public interested in the movie. They do that advertising to the general public (or targeting audiences they think would be interested, which trailers do a great job of doing).

So... the tale continues...

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 08-07-2018, 04:19 PM:

My cat would be a better CEO than this jerk - when will he notice he is talking with his pants down...

- Carsten.

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 08-07-2018, 04:46 PM:

They're going to target people who spent $40 or $50 per year at the theatre, and they're going to charge those people $120 per year.

[Confused]

Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 08-07-2018, 05:52 PM:

Step 1 ... Steal underpants!
Step 2 ... ...
Step 3 ... Profit!

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 08-07-2018, 08:34 PM:

Assuming Lowe walks away with a bunch of other people's money, I'll be contrarian and say he's a genius for finding the stupidest rich people in the world and talking them into this scheme.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-07-2018, 10:06 PM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
Lowe said. "We are just about to roll out to exhibitors that we'll continue to pay full price, but we want to negotiate with them a fair marketing fee."

Oh, OK....so we're not giving a discount, we're just PAYING A FEE. That's completely different! Sign me up!!

(To be fair, I guess that would be a little different because an exhibitor could write it off as an advertising expense. I guess I would consider it, as long as that pesky "We can change the terms anytime we want" clause is stricken from the agreement.)

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 08-08-2018, 08:10 AM:

quote: Frank Cox
They're going to target people who spent $40 or $50 per year at the theatre, and they're going to charge those people $120 per year.

Hey, they finally got a business plan that makes money... on paper. [Wink]

quote:
Oh, OK....so we're not giving a discount, we're just PAYING A FEE. That's completely different! Sign me up!!

It's obviously a typical "public directory" extortion scheme: Either you pay the fee or we'll throw you out of our listings...

Posted by Jonathan M. Crist (Member # 413) on 08-10-2018, 01:06 PM:

If you invested $100,000 in Helios stock on that day in October [just after HMNY announced it was buying MoviePass and the HMNY stock shot up briefly from 2.50 per share to about $31.00 per share] when Maxim's Kinstlinger initiated coverage with a "buy," your shares would now be worth about $1.85.

Two Banks Made Millions on MoviePass Play

Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 7758) on 08-10-2018, 06:25 PM:

That didn't take long. My goodness!

Shouldn't there be some lawsuits?

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 08-10-2018, 11:47 PM:

So... throughout this epic saga, the people who you hear almost nothing from Lowe and Farnsworth about are... their stockholders.

While Lowe is declaring he's "finally" figured out whos revenue stream he's trying to barge in on, and Farnsworth is insisting that "everything's fine" while their stock is, once again, below a nickel, there's this...

https://www.marketwatch.com/press-release/gainey-mckenna-egleston-announces-a-class-action-lawsuit-has-been-filed-against-helios-and-matheson-analytics-inc-hmny-2018-08-10

-------------------------------------

Gainey McKenna & Egleston announces that a class action lawsuit has been filed against Helios and Matheson Analytics Inc. ("Helios and Matheson" or the "Company") HMNY, -19.87% in the United States District Court for the Southern District of New York on behalf of a class consisting of investors who purchased or otherwise acquired Helios and Matheson securities on the open market from August 15, 2017 and July 26, 2018, inclusive (the "Class Period"), seeking to recover compensable damages caused by Defendants' alleged violations of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934.

The Complaint alleges that the Company made false and misleading statements to the market in connection with the Company's promotion of the future profitability and high valuation of MoviePass. The Complaint alleges that the MoviePass business model could not be sustained and that the Company would run out of capital. Therefore, the Complaint alleges that , the Company's public statements about its business prospects and operations were materially false and misleading during the class period. When the market learned the truth about Helios and Matheson, the price of the Company's stock dropped, causing investors to suffer damages.

The Complaint also alleges that throughout the Class Period, the Company made other materially false and misleading statements regarding the Company's business, operational and compliance policies. Specifically, the Complaint alleges that the Company made false and/or misleading statements and/or failed to disclose that: (1) the Company's sales claims and the supposed underlying proprietary techniques lacked a verifiable basis and (2) as a result, the Company's public statements were materially false and misleading at all relevant times.

.... Please visit our website at http://www.gme-law.com for more information about the firm.

Posted by Jonathan M. Crist (Member # 413) on 08-11-2018, 11:45 AM:

The class action lawsuit filed Aug 10th by Gainey, Mckenna and Egleston is just the lastest one. Can you say: Pile On?

There were already at least 4 other class actions already filed:

Levi & Korsinsky (filed August 2, 2018) Levi & Korsinsky

Federman & Sherwood (filed August 3, 2018) Federman and Sherwood

Rosen Law Firm (filed August 3, 2018) Rosen Law Firm

Pawar Law Group (filed August 7, 2018) Pawar Law Group

The way this works is that there is a 'race to the courthouse' with the first firm to file most often then being 'lead counsel' when the various lawsuits are consolidated into one. However all counsel who have filed do get to share in the awarded attorney fees but the 'lead counsel' gets a bigger slice of the pie.

The settlement usually results in the class action attorneys getting paid while once again the shareholders get little or nothing.

The real sad commentary in this whole affair is that the exhibition industry by its sky-high pricing allowed itself to become a pawn in what is yet another classic 'pump and dump' stock scheme.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-11-2018, 01:35 PM:

quote: Jonathan M. Crist
The real sad commentary in this whole affair is that the exhibition industry by its sky-high pricing allowed itself to become a pawn in what is yet another classic 'pump and dump' stock scheme.

At the risk of igniting yet another debate about pricing, what would be a "correct" price? Everyone says movie prices are too high, even though they're the lowest-priced out-of-home entertainment option out there, coupled with a high cost to put that entertainment in the market. So what's the benchmark? What's a movie ticket worth?

All MoviePass has done is prove that people love a bargain. Well, and that they have taken the Redbox/Netflix valuation of movies (a buck or two, at most) to heart.

Posted by Harold Hallikainen (Member # 5405) on 08-11-2018, 02:27 PM:

On high prices, as long as there is not collusion to set prices, competition between exhibitors should keep pricing correct. If exhibitors were all equal (at least in the mind of the consumer) in quality, features, location, etc., price would be the determining factor as to which theater the consumer went to (like a consumer will choose one gas station over the one across the street to save a penny per gallon). But, they are not all the same. Exhibitors are trying to compete on things other than price (recliners, etc.). It would be interesting to get an idea of how exhibitors set their prices. Higher CAN result in higher profits, but if attendance falls, lower profits. We see time of day pricing through matinee discounts. How much price experimentation is there to determine the optimum (most profitable) price? And, of course, exhibitors are not just competing with other exhibitors. They are competing with Netflix, sporting events, and whatever other entertainment people are willing to spend money on.

On the class action law suits, it was mentioned that the lead attorneys get a larger portion of the pie. I suspect it's a pretty small pie to share.

It's amazing how easily investors are misled. I think everyone here saw that it was extremely difficult to impossible to make a profit on MoviePass. How did all these "smart people" put so many millions into this?

Also, as mentioned previously by another poster, investors are relying on advice from advisors who do not have a fiduciary responsibility to the investor. You get what you pay for! If you want someone to act in your interest, PAY THEM to do that, and make sure no one else is paying them to act against your interest. We saw a similar thing in the 2008 financial crisis where those selling the securities would hire ratings companies to rate the value of the securities. The investors relied on these ratings, but the ratings companies had no responsibility to the investor.

Harold

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 08-12-2018, 12:25 AM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
At the risk of igniting yet another debate about pricing, what would be a "correct" price? Everyone says movie prices are too high, even though they're the lowest-priced out-of-home entertainment option out there, coupled with a high cost to put that entertainment in the market. So what's the benchmark? What's a movie ticket worth?

For most, the answer would have to be "I don't know"... because they don't see anything beyond the cost of a ticket, soda or popcorn.

The funny thing about that is how people will spend hundreds, if not thousands of dollars for football tickets, not to mention the cost of concessions and beverages at those venues, and not bat an eye.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 08-12-2018, 04:54 AM:

Local trends obviously might vary, but most people I know never or only very occasionally go to sporting or other live events. When you ask them why, it's primarily because of the costs, combined with lack of interest in such things.

Although there is arguably some bias, most people I know do go to the movies. They don't watch as many movies as I do in a cinema, but most of them go to watch a movie multiple times a year. For some it's more like a family event, so they'll choose a "family" movie.

And yes, many of them complain about prices, especially those who go with the entire family. And sure, it adds up. Tickets for four, five or six, even with some discounts for the kids and/or grandma, put in some 3D, a bunch of oversized soft drinks, some popcorn, nachos and candy and you easily land north of $100 or an equal amount in your local currency.

And while there aren't many other options that are much cheaper, besides maybe a walk though the park, it still feels like and is a lot of money for many people.

While people should know that "quality escapism" has it's price, I think it's important for cinema that it remains within a specific realm. I don't have a name for it, but it's the realm where Average Joe/Joeette doesn't care too much about costs, since going to the movies will not really harm his or her budget for this month.

I think that some cinemas are really pushing it to the limit with their "premium", "VIP" and "ultra-VIP" arrangements, where a single admission will be more like that of a live concert. And while there have always been "quality tiers" in entertainment, the movie going experience was always one of the ore "egalitarian" ones. It's important to watch out that the exclusive part of the movie-going experience will not be the new norm, or we'll simply loose the base.

quote: Jack Ondracek
Gainey McKenna & Egleston announces that a class action lawsuit has been filed against Helios and Matheson Analytics Inc. ("Helios and Matheson" or the "Company") HMNY, -19.87% in the United States District Court for the Southern District of New York on behalf of a class consisting of investors who purchased or otherwise acquired Helios and Matheson securities on the open market from August 15, 2017 and July 26, 2018, inclusive (the "Class Period"), seeking to recover compensable damages caused by Defendants' alleged violations of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934.

I can understand why investors are pissed, but I never understand what such class actions against a failed company would bring. It's good money for the lawyers, but they're the only ones who will win... The company has no money and the chance of them getting new investors and therefore potentially raising the value of your stock, at least in the long run, is becoming even smaller. What investor wants to put money in a company with such potential big-fat liabilities?

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 08-12-2018, 04:57 AM:

Hamilton - in 2015 = $450; by 2017 it peaked at $1,200
Hello Dolly - $1,009
Book of Mormon - $470
And there is now a waiting list for months for all of them. For Hamilton, plan to get tickets for nearly a year from now.

Average Broadway show ticket price = $114

And as Jack points out, sports events and music concerts out-cost movies by many multiples of ten. So why does the public value seeing Bette Midler on stage for 2 & half hours 10 times more than seeing a blockbuster movie...or one with her on the screen for 2 & half hours? Mostly it part and parcel of the history of the movies; movies were always entertainment for the common people and at prices the masses traditionally could afford. That's a collective, cultural memory that can't be...probably will not ever be changed. It will always be locked to "what the market will be bear" and that market will always have that public perception that movies should cost. Any one who thinks otherwise can try charging $50 for a blockbuster movie opening and see what happens. Actually that has been floated -- charging variable ticket prices based on value in seeing a movie opening weekend, similar to the differential that has been traditional of matinee vs. evening pricing. This would just make it more specific -- with a differential for weekend vs. Monday - Thurs. Thing is, the industry itself is responsible for seriously devaluing its own product.

By selling their product to video at absurdly low prices, they have devalued their own product that only encourages the public to hold on to this perception that movie should be cheap -- they are cheap on line, cheap to buy as CDs and and a damn dollar out of a box at the supermarket...less than the price of a candy bar. Cheap. Originally when the studios first released their movies on VHS, they priced the tapes at significantly higher prices than they do now. Remember when to buy a movie on VHS would cost you $89? Time warp to 2003 and Red Box allowed the public to see Hollywood big name titles for a buck. How's that for devaluing the product? And just as an aside, how is it that Disney says they don't care what the theatre charges for a ticket, but they have to get a per capita minimum? In other words, they are making sure the exhibitor doesn't devalue their product -- no theatre is going to charge a dollar to see a Disney film, yet they don't see to give a hoot about the DVD renting out for $1 -- how come there's no per capita demand that Red Box charge per DVD rental?

Then you have the penchant of the movie producers to flaunt their box office take, publicly announcing how many hundreds of millions of dollars a title makes on opening weekend; well that certainly doesn't instill any sympathy from the public when movie ticket prices rise, even by fractions of a percentage you hear the complaints and backlash. BTW, what other industry does that...announce on TV news outlets what their sales grosses are?

All this conspires to re-enforce the public's collective notion that movies SHOULD be cheap. The studios sell them cheap and they studios are hauling in massive amounts of money or so is the perception; exhibition is caught in the middle.
That's the nature of the beast.

The proof that it won't change in anyone's lifetime is that you don't see Nederlander or the Shubert Organization or any of the other "legitimate" (live) theatre owners scrambling to put in recliner seats or 4DX. Both the live theatre operator and the movie exhibitor provide aprox. 2 & half hours of entertainment, but it's the way the public perceives its worth is what makes all the difference and the studios along with history have kind of stamped that perception into our collective DNA.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 08-12-2018, 10:41 AM:

You bring up some good points, Frank, especially that about the studios bragging about their grosses. While you can certainly find that information about other industries (cars, etc), they don't tend to wear those numbers on their shirtsleeves like the movies do...

I understand the movies were a much larger part of entertainment culture in years back. My dad recalls when newsreels were a legitimate form of information back then. But like it or not, those days are gone. Cheap DVD rentals and streaming services have taken the place of discount and sub-run theatres. Then, there's the perception that what you purchased at a low price isn't worth much in the first place. I've got days worth of stories about how my business was treated when we had $5 carload admissions out here. If I was forced to go back to those days, I'd turn the place into a mini-storage.

I understand the "realm" that Marcel is trying to place the moviegoing experience into. Given the overhead cost of providing that service to people who want something better than streaming on their smartphones or home screens, I'm not sure that's practical anymore.

Theatres have become "events", at least that's how we position ourselves these days. The outdoor experience here, and maybe even the VIP rooms at indoor houses are intended for the occasional customer who expects to pay a bit more for something different.

As for the indoor houses: I think they'd do much better if the chain owners got some spine and dealt more firmly with disruptive patrons in their auditoriums. It wouldn't take more than a couple of films, ruined by a couple of chatty, texting teenagers, and I'd be looking for alternatives, regardless of the price I'd paid. Somehow, the exhibs seem reluctant to risk confrontation. They also largely lost me when they forced their advert reels upon us. I never show up early, as the fact I might pay for a half hour of toothpaste and car ads and Save-The-Pets PSAs is a source of irritation that's changed how I approach the experience.

Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 08-12-2018, 11:08 AM:

Now THERE'S a great business Jack, mini-storage! People pay and pay and pay so they never have to deal with getting rid of the crap they don't really want. What if you sacrificed just a few car spots and your perimeter entry/exit and "screen separator" fences were actually mini-storage units? Accessible 9am-6pm.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 08-12-2018, 11:58 AM:

quote: Dave Bird
What if you sacrificed just a few car spots and your perimeter entry/exit and "screen separator" fences were actually mini-storage units?

Actually, I did have a guy out here this year, trying to talk me out of one of my back fields. Promised 20 years of residual payments, etc etc etc.

He couldn't figure out why I kept turning him down... after all, drive-ins are pretty much gone, right? He was trying to do me a favor, while getting ahold of a nice piece of land with access & utilities.

Unannounced, he and his wife came out for a show on a Saturday, when we had Incredibles, or Avengers, or some-such. The place was packed, with lines out of every hole in the building.. They left with his wife convincing him we probably couldn't be talked into his 'generous' proposal.

Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 08-12-2018, 02:41 PM:

I get a bit of a kick out of people assuming this is a hobby. It's true the revenue is lower than some (probably many) small businesses and yes, we're closed half the year. But the work days can often be "double-days" as I call them.

The other amusing idea is the one where we couldn't use our commercial land for that "better idea" ourselves. I assume they don't see these as "real businesses". But from what I can see, the year-round gov't paperwork/filing is the same. Hiring/firing the same. Upkeep, maintenance, advertising, buying, selling.....all the same. Figuring out how to finance it on smaller/tighter revenues probably makes us pretty damn capable of putting those storage units in if it makes sense at some point too...

(How 'bout just half of the Screen 3 field Jack, still a lot of units [Wink]

)

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 08-12-2018, 06:15 PM:

quote: Jack Ondracek
I understand the "realm" that Marcel is trying to place the moviegoing experience into. Given the overhead cost of providing that service to people who want something better than streaming on their smartphones or home screens, I'm not sure that's practical anymore.

It depends on a lot of factors obviously, if it remains practical or achievable. I can only judge it from the traditional cinema perspective and not really from a drive-in perspective, although there will be a lot of overlap. The economy is an important factor, another is the cost of the technical equipment to keep on outperforming the alternatives and then there is the infrastructure around it, like the room, the seats and the amount of human efforts you need to put in there to deliver the expected level of service.

Then again, I don't expect a seat like in an International Business or First Class flight, nor do I expect a private butler pouring me expensive campaign when I go out to watch a movie and I doubt this is considered to be the norm by anybody I know.

What I do want is a technical up-to-date room, a clean and friendly environment without unnecessary disruptions, good popcorn and some real cold drinks and a good seat. I think it should still be doable at prices that don't bust Joe Average's budget.

Obviously, times have changed, the ever shrinking theatrical release window isn't helping, but time and time again it has proven that the real culprit of exhibition businesses struggling is usually the lack of good content.

What's more worrisome for me is that the Hollywood studios and their owners have all been consolidating and it looks like their interest in the feature hit industry is waning. They're all looking at Netflix and Amazon as the big elephant in the room. Unfortunately, they seem to think they can neutralize this elephant by imitating it, rather than by outsmarting it.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-12-2018, 09:50 PM:

quote: Marcel Birgelen
I think it should still be doable at prices that don't bust Joe Average's budget.

How much is that in dollars? Our adult price is currently $7.75, and we constantly get comments from out-of-towners who are amazed at our "low" price. But I'm sure it's still "too much" by some people's standards, too.

I'm just curious what the "magic number" is where (a) people will stop complaining about the prices, and (b) they'll start coming to the movies in droves, and (c) we and the studio can still make a buck.

Posted by Martin Brooks (Member # 1269) on 08-12-2018, 11:00 PM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
I'm just curious what the "magic number" is where (a) people will stop complaining about the prices, and (b) they'll start coming to the movies in droves, and (c) we and the studio can still make a buck.

People, especially older people, will never stop complaining about the price because they remember what the price was decades ago and they don't apply the inflation rate to figure out what it should be today. Having said that, it is true that movie tickets have increased at greater than the inflation rate.

In NYC, based on a ticket in 2003, current regular tickets are about 20% above the inflation rate at AMC and about 25% above at Regal. Based on the price of a ticket in 2005, regular tickets are about 22% above the inflation rate at AMC and about 27% above at Regal. Obviously, IMAX, Dolby Vision, 3D and other special formats or theaters are more. There's a famous Joel Meyerowitz photo from 1963 of a Manhattan move theater where the price was $2. But that's $16.31 in 2018 dollars, so it's really the same price, even though it doesn't feel that way.

However if we look at roadshow prices in 1967, the lowest price would be the equivalent of $14.88 today and the high price would be the equivalent of $31.62.

But the problem today is that streaming, DVD and Blu-ray has completely changed the perception of what movies are worth. It's also made movies so ubiquitous that they're no longer special. When I go to the movies during the week, they're pretty much empty. I really don't understand how these theaters are surviving. And because of all that, I don't see how theaters can get their mojo back, especially with the poor showmanship in most.

It will be interesting to see whether the AMC membership program gets people to attend theaters more often, since, if it's used, it can substantially lower the price of a ticket.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 08-13-2018, 01:57 AM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
How much is that in dollars? Our adult price is currently $7.75, and we constantly get comments from out-of-towners who are amazed at our "low" price. But I'm sure it's still "too much" by some people's standards, too.

I'm just curious what the "magic number" is where (a) people will stop complaining about the prices, and (b) they'll start coming to the movies in droves, and (c) we and the studio can still make a buck.

As you might have guessed, the magic number is pretty hard to determine, but let's just give it a try...

It's something that's being done at the big corporations all the time and which is essential for their business. Getting the price right makes all the difference between running a healthy margin and making huge losses. For the average small scale business, without having easy access to all the big numbers, it's obviously much harder, so you often tend to be more conservative and use your gut feeling rather than hard numbers.

What I often use to compare the buying powers between nations at large, is something you probably have heard of: The Big Mac Index, which is an indication of how much a Big Mac costs across the globe.

Now, as stupid as it initially may sound, McDonald's actually puts a lot of efforts into pricing their products in such a way they'll still sell sufficient product, but get the maximum margin out of it.

The next step, is a bit of my own interpretation, but I've referred to the value of a "vanilla" movie ticket to roughly that of two Big Macs in the past and I still think it holds up pretty well.

With the Big Mac index at $5.30 for 2018 for the whole of the U.S., that would be an average of $10.60 for a movie ticket, which is probably a dollar and a half above the current average.

Obviously, that's just part of the story. Even here, there is a considerable price difference between "City Center" and something that's considered "Rural" (if that even really exists anymore around here).

So, it's fair to correct the number by applying the Cost of Living. For Forsyth Montana that would be 96.8. If you maintain my "Double Big Mac standard" as a reference, then roughly $10.26 would be the acceptable price for a movie ticket in Forsyth Montana.

Now, you know your people better than I do and even though I'm pretty sure there is more margin in your tickets, it's probably not a good idea to just bump the price at once.

Also, my "Double Big Mac" standard obviously lacks some real research as substance, although I'm surprised that, in general, it is a good indication of what first-run movie tickets cost in markets around the world, especially if you compensate it with the local cost-of-living factor (which McDonald's franchisees also often do to some extent).

Additionally, while the Big Mac Index is a pretty solid thing, I've sometimes questioned the cost-of-living factors that have been calculated by different authorities, those statistics aren't always entirely reliable and sometimes seem a bit fudged. And in some fringe cases, where the cost-of-living factor is dramatically skewed because of e.g. local housing prices, you'll often see that commodities aren't as much affected and I'd still consider a regular movie ticket more like a commodity than some fancy luxury item.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 08-13-2018, 04:23 AM:

It would interest me to know if the cost of production and marketing has held, more or less, to inflation over the years. Judging a movie ticket by that metric is fine, but it's only valid if the rest of the exhibitor's business follows the same scale.

Off-hand, I sort of doubt it.

I'm assuming the cost to provide a Red Box DVD or a Netflix stream is substantially lower than the average cost to run a 'brick and mortar' theatre, given average participation numbers. If the streamers siphon off enough patrons, the theatre would have to reduce profits or returns to its investors, reduced the quality of its buildings or presentation, such as they might be, or raise prices to compensate. That might require re-positioning what they represent to the market, possibly as an event, rather than a commodity.

Still...

(From Hollywood Reporter, 1-17-18):

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/average-price-a-movie-ticket-soars-897-2017-1075458

... "While the average ticket price hit $8.97, it remained below the cost of an average ticket in 1977 when adjusted for inflation. Back then, a ticket cost $2.23, the equivalent of $9.40 in today's currency."

Doesn't seem all that outrageous to me...

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 08-13-2018, 07:49 AM:

I've always gone by how much the minimum-wage worker has to work to see a movie. A large portion of the movie/dating market are those that make or are close to the minimum wage. How long does that individual have to work to see a movie (standard presentation, nothing premium). And by minimum wage, I mean by locality so that accounts for the variances in localities. By this metric, movies have been reasonably stable over the years. Seeing movies today, really isn't more expensive than in years prior. That kid still has to work just shy of 2-hours to afford to see a movie.

Now if a federally mandated $15/hour minimum reaches everywhere, then that will alter my theory a bit or theatres will need to respond to it by putting movie tickets closer to $27 each. It may seem like a lot but it still is just shy of 2-hours of work. Mind you, every other business will similarly increase the cost of things to "afford" their workers or replace them by machine, where possible, but will need to afford that investment too.

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 08-13-2018, 10:14 AM:

quote: Jack Ondracek
The funny thing about that is how people will spend hundreds, if not thousands of dollars for football tickets, not to mention the cost of concessions and beverages at those venues, and not bat an eye.

I think this has to do with scarcity. Even the most casual fans understand there are only 60,000 tickets available for that playoff game or the rivalry game. But moviegoers are presented with dozens - if not hundreds - of show times over the course of a week, and often see auditoriums with plenty of empty seats. This leads to the impression of a surplus, which they think should result in lower prices.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 08-13-2018, 11:33 AM:

There is an idea. Take on the Hotel/Airplane model. Variable pricing based on available seats! For an empty auditorium, it would be cheap but on popular movies as it fills up...it gets progressively more expensive. And, for giggles, over-sell the theatre to ensure a full-house! What could go wrong with that? [Razz]

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-13-2018, 11:48 AM:

MoviePass now forcing members to choose between two movies each day
By Nicolas Vega - August 10, 2018

So much for movie night.

Cash-strapped MoviePass saw its service crash for the third weekend in a row Friday evening, leaving its 3-million-plus subscribers unable to head to the theater.

The app crash came just hours after the company quietly rolled out its latest ploy to keep users from heading to the theaters: forcing them to choose between a terrible film and a terrible showtime.

Before the service went down, subscribers on Friday could only choose between two options — the critically-panned horror flick “Slender Man” and the latest “Mission: Impossible” sequel at an odd hour.

At the AMC Empire 25 in Times Square, for example, the two showtimes available for the 147-minute “Mission: Impossible — Fallout” were 2:30 p.m. and 10:45 p.m. A moviegoer attending the late showtime would exit the theater at roughly 1:45 in the morning.

Meanwhile “Slender Man,” a horror movie centered around an viral internet hoax, currently has a 16-percent critical rating on Rotten Tomatoes.

In an interview with The Post on Friday, CEO Mitch Lowe confirmed the new policy, noting that the two movies on offer might change each day.

“Unfortunately, in order to stay financially stable we’ve had to curtail the service,” Lowe said. “We had to right the ship as far as the amount of money we were burning.”

The new move was designed to help the company limp along until mid-September, when all of its monthly users will have been moved to a new plan that limits them to three movies a month, Lowe said.

He denied, however, that MoviePass was deliberately offering inconvenient showtimes, and insisted that over the next few weeks, subscribers will see films throughout the day.

“This has been a challenging time for us and our customers. We’re just trying to save our service to be able to be available long term.”

Lowe said that investors believe in the sustainability of MoviePass’ new pricing plan, but are waiting to see what percentage of the service’s 3-million-plus subscribers renew at the three-movies-per-month rate.

In May and June, MoviePass lost an estimated $85 million, and had been averaging a loss of $20 million per month before that.

Shares of MoviePass parent company Helios and Matheson hit an all-time low of 4.8 cents on Friday, and ended the week down 19.9 percent at 5 cents.

Two weeks ago, MoviePass — which costs $9.95 per month and pays full price for every ticket its users purchase — went dark for several days due to the company running out of cash.

It is not clear if MoviePass ran out of funds this time, or if it now has a limit on the number of tickets it will purchase each day.

MoviePass did not respond to a request for comment following the crash.

Earlier Friday, the new Winnie the Pooh movie “Disney’s Christopher Robin” was available at certain theaters with similar late-night showtimes as “Mission: Impossible.”

Shortly after The Post asked Lowe about whether the late-night hours were suitable for children, the movie disappeared from MoviePass altogether.

New York Post article

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 08-13-2018, 12:00 PM:

That explains why we had a customer over the weekend who was upset that a particular show time wasn't available. At the time I just dismissed it with my standard "we make our show times available to 3rd parties, but we can not guarantee the accuracy of the listings on their pages".

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 08-13-2018, 12:02 PM:

The problem is that planes often sell out and that movie theatres rarely do. And the difference between 80% full and 70% full is the difference between profit and loss for a given flight. A passenger might only have a choice of a few flights if he wants to get to LAX tomorrow afternoon, whereas plenty of movies are playing at the same time in most localities and most of them will have tickets available tomorrow and next week, too.

Just as important is the perception of the industry. Most people hate airlines, but see them as a necessary evil for long trips. Entertainment venues (like movie theatres) are viewed as happy, fun places, and it would not be in the interest of the industry to alter this perception, especially since there are other out-of-home entertainment options available to the public. Better to concentrate on giving customers value for the price paid (friendly staff, clean auditorium, great picture and sound quality, etc.) than on reducing prices by pennies.

I don't think that the existence of Movie Pass proves that prices are too high, but rather that people who attend frequently are (rightly) quick to take advantage of a deal.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 08-13-2018, 12:46 PM:

quote: Steve Guttag
There is an idea. Take on the Hotel/Airplane model. Variable pricing based on available seats! For an empty auditorium, it would be cheap but on popular movies as it fills up...it gets progressively more expensive. And, for giggles, over-sell the theatre to ensure a full-house! What could go wrong with that?

I'm sorry, sir, but that show is full. I can put you and your family on standby for the next show, if you like...

Would you like to check your wallet, or will that be a carry-on?

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 08-13-2018, 01:29 PM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
Lowe said that investors believe in the sustainability of MoviePass’ new pricing plan, but are waiting to see what percentage of the service’s 3-million-plus subscribers renew at the three-movies-per-month rate.

Proving once again that Lowe found the stupidest rich people in the world.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 08-13-2018, 02:04 PM:

quote: Scott Norwood

Just as important is the perception of the industry. Most people hate airlines, but see them as a necessary evil for long trips. Entertainment venues (like movie theatres) are viewed as happy, fun places, and it would not be in the interest of the industry to alter this perception, especially since there are other out-of-home entertainment options available to the public. Better to concentrate on giving customers value for the price paid (friendly staff, clean auditorium, great picture and sound quality, etc.) than on reducing prices by pennies.

I'm pretty sure Steve was being sarcastic. [Wink]

The moment people start to like movie theaters like airlines, it's simply over and done.

quote: Jack Ondracek
Would you like to check your wallet, or will that be a carry-on?

Carry-on? You know, wallets are considered hand luggage now. It's not us, it's a security measure. Hand luggage can be carried in the theater for just $9.99. Credit card or cash?

Ah, credit card? That will be $2.45 in processing fees.

You didn't print your ticket at home? No problem sir, we can do that for you... that will be $14.95. Ah... Credit card..?

Oh, and by the way, you know that all the liquids you take with you in the theater need to be sealed in a clear plastic bag?

Thank you sir, you can proceed to security...

quote: Mike Blakesley
Before the service went down, subscribers on Friday could only choose between two options — the critically-panned horror flick “Slender Man” and the latest “Mission: Impossible” sequel at an odd hour.

And as a result of this, Hollywood is probably going to think that people really wanted to see Slender Man, so Slender Man II has most likely already been green-lighted... The irony! [Wink]

Posted by Allan Young (Member # 6332) on 08-14-2018, 08:33 AM:

quote: Steve Guttag
There is an idea. Take on the Hotel/Airplane model. Variable pricing based on available seats! For an empty auditorium, it would be cheap but on popular movies as it fills up...it gets progressively more expensive.

It's been done...

UK's easyCinema to test low-cost cinema concept

Ending months of speculation, the UK's easyCinema has leased the first site in the roll-out of its innovative low cost cinema concept: UCI's 10-screen multiplex, The Point in Milton Keynes.

EasyCinema, part of Greek entrepreneur Stelios Haji-Ioannou's no-frills empire easyGroup, will sell tickets for as low as 20p if booked a month in advance, applying the company's yield management pricing structure used in businesses ranging from car rentals to plane tickets. Prices will rise nearer showtime.

The Point, which will start showing films at the end of May this year, will have no box office: tickets will be sold online at www.easycinema.com, and there will be a computer to purchase tickets in the lobby. Savings will be made by reduced staff numbers.

In a statement, the venture is described by easyCinema as a controlled experiment: "The lessons learned in Milton Keynes will prepare easyCinema for further expansion in the UK and Europe."

Although an historic cinema in the exhibition industry - The Point was the first UK multiplex to open in 1985 - at 18 years old the site is showing its age and faces competition from a 16-screen CineWorld multiplex nearby. EasyCinema has a five year lease on the site, and a marketing budget of £300,000 for the first three months.

"I've made many mistakes in other industries by rolling things out too fast," Stelios Haji-Ioannou told the Financial Times, "so I'm going to sit on my hands for six months to a year before I try another cinema."

https://www.screendaily.com/uks-easycinema-to-test-low-cost-cinema-concept/4012876.article

In a very strange business decision, they ripped out all the concession stands and encouraged people to brink their own food and drink.

It closed three years later due to a combination of high rent and distributor reluctance to provide first-run movies.

Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 08-14-2018, 11:41 AM:

It was reported in several news sites yesterday and today that MoviePass reactivated some canceled customers accounts, and have attempted to bill them for the canceled service. Further, the reports indicate that these customers can not re-cancel their subscription, the cancellation web page crashes.

If this is true, in my opinion Moviepass has gone beyond incompetent and into the realm of criminal fraud, and should be prosecuted as such.

Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 08-14-2018, 11:51 AM:

quote: Mitchell Dvoskin
It was reported in several news sites yesterday and today that MoviePass reactivated some canceled customers accounts, and have attempted to bill them for the canceled service. Further, the reports indicate that these customers can not re-cancel their subscription, the cancellation web page crashes.

If this is true, in my opinion Moviepass has gone beyond incompetent and into the realm of criminal fraud, and should be prosecuted as such.

All somebody would have to do is dispute the charge with their credit card company. Unless it can be proven that they purposely made the cancellation page break, there won't be any criminal case.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-14-2018, 12:49 PM:

I saw this post on a Youtube video ... well at least some of their investors are upbeat. The post is from yesterday.

quote: Random Youtube Commenter Who Doesn't Like Capital Letters
i've been thinking about this and believe i think i know what they're doing right now-

they are waiting until their new plan rolls out on the 15th, to then allow their systems to start working properly and allow all movies to work again, etc.

they can't afford to allow the people with the old plans of unlimited movies to continue going to millions of movies until then, so they are choking their system purposely to not work very well, and block out tons of the movies that are desired to see right now to save money until the 15th.

then on the 15th the system will suddenly work properly without blocking out good movies etc because they will be able to afford it under their new plan and people will be happy, and so will moviepass and so will investors.

they're just shaking off all old unlimited clients and old plan details for now, because they simply can't afford it anymore.

it will work fantastic and be a win win for everyone starting august 15th.

yes it's unfortunate for the exploiters who want to see their movies every single day, but so it goes. they've proven to be a bunch of spoiled ungrateful and unloyal babies anyways.

so as an investor i say good riddance.

cancel and stop your savings because your are stupid anyways.

Wow, can't wait until tomorrow to see if this works! [rolleyes]

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 08-15-2018, 04:03 AM:

This YouTube post feels like AstroTurf.

not using any capitals is pretty hipster.
next to the phenomenon of not using any punctuation marks at all who doesnt love reading one long string of words like its one long sentence not knowing where the current sentence began or where it eventually will stop

Those MoviePass subscriptions are becoming more and more confusing. Why are they now forcing people to switch to their new plan of "three movies a month" for $9,95, while in the past they changed their existing subscriptions at a whim?

And what do those subscribers get that won't take this new, wonderful plan? Will they go back to the original plan of one movie a day? Or will they continue getting the same non-existent service they're receiving today, where you, maybe, can choose from two movies, one of which you definitely not want to see and the other in a time slot you definitely not want to see it?

And what happened with the idea of "peak pricing" for "high demand" features? I guess that one didn't fit well with those people who thought they had bought a "flat fee" subscription?

Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 08-15-2018, 08:38 AM:

Lowe says investors "believe in the new plan"? Err, I'm no Warren Buffett, but didn't he reverse-split the stock when it originally fell to 10 cents to get it back to $25, whereupon it immediately fell back down to 4 cents? "Belief" appears to come in many forms I guess?

I'd love to have tiered pricing based on where the customer is from. We're in a fairly rural area, and the prices are "reasonable" for that area. However half or more of our people come from the city 40 minutes away. They can't believe how cheap we are, and say so often. Compared to the city, we sure are (though I'm proud to charge more for cotton candy than the Seattle Mariners do! [Big Grin]

)

Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 08-15-2018, 01:05 PM:

quote: Lyle Romer
All somebody would have to do is dispute the charge with their credit card company. Unless it can be proven that they purposely made the cancellation page break, there won't be any criminal case.

Actually, the criminal case is charging people for a service that was previously canceled, and re-activating the service based upon purposely misleading screen text that did not clearly state that the service would also be re-activated upon clicking "accept". Fraud and fraud by deception is still a criminal offense.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 08-15-2018, 01:31 PM:

quote: Mitchell Dvoskin
Actually, the criminal case is charging people for a service that was previously canceled, and re-activating the service based upon purposely misleading screen text that did not clearly state that the service would also be re-activated upon clicking "accept". Fraud and fraud by deception is still a criminal offense.

While I totally agree with everything you said, the problem is simply to prove criminal intent. Unless they've a written record somewhere they didn't destroy before someone could get it as evidence or sufficient employees who would testify that this wasn't "just another oopsie", you've got very little evidence. Especially if they're cooperative when you confront them about it.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 08-15-2018, 02:59 PM:

Even so, if a company is teasing around something dishonest, they've lost tons of respect, and business if only one gets wind of this.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 08-15-2018, 04:59 PM:

quote: Monte L Fullmer
Even so, if a company is teasing around something dishonest, they've lost tons of respect, and business if only one gets wind of this.

I am pretty sure that would be Moviepass' very latest worrybout...

- Carsten

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-18-2018, 12:23 AM:

Well their newest deal is, you can pick from seven movies, which change from day to day, and any popular movie is only available a maximum of 2 or 3 days a week, and you never know what showtime you can get until you arrive at the theatre. Etc.

There's really no point in going into a lot of detail when it'll probably change again, or otherwise blow up, in the next few days anyway.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 08-18-2018, 07:06 AM:

It's obvious they're revolving through all kinds of business plans, just in order to more creatively make their service unusable for their subscribers, meanwhile vaguely trying to hide the fact they're not really providing any value at all anymore.

It's just a matter of time until they'll not only see an class-action lawsuit from their shareholders but also from their members.

Maybe, if they would've kept their price at around $20 to $25 per month and would've worked with some theaters on a somewhat less arrogant basis, this whole thing actually could've worked.

Obviously they would be nowhere close to 3 million subscribers, but if I would invent a cash machine that would give you another $10 for free for any $10 you'd pull out of the thing, the lines for that thing would span across the globe...

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-25-2018, 11:30 PM:

If anybody still cares, the latest wrinkle now is, they're giving all the "annual plan" cardholders until the end of this month to decide whether to switch over to the three-movies-a-month-from-our-list-of-limited-choices plan or cancel.

Those people had been promised they could stay on their previously-agreed-upon unlimited plan until their renewal date.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 08-26-2018, 04:00 PM:

It's a bit telling that it will probably be cheaper for them to simply reimburse them the remaining months than to keep offering them their "original yet already strongly butchered" plan.

The new plan feels more like one of those gift vouchers you get from someone that really must hate you:

Breakfast and Champagne for two, in an hotel at the other side of the planet (you pay for transport), only valid on Thursday mornings and an expiry date of 3 months from now. Happy <Fill in Event Here>.

Posted by Rusty Gordon (Member # 2210) on 08-29-2018, 02:11 PM:

Many MoviePass subscribers no longer find it trustworthy or reliable, survey finds
by Sarah Toy

MoviePass subscribers are very disgruntled.
In the spring, a National Research Group survey of MoviePass customers conducted for The Hollywood Reporter found that 83% of patrons were more satisfied with the service than any other subscription service.

That was in March. In a follow-up survey of 1,558 moviegoers done in mid-August, that number fell to just 48 percent. The survey sample included 424 MoviePass subscribers and 100 people who had recently canceled their memberships. The results were published by The Hollywood Reporter on Tuesday.

Forty-seven percent of the MoviePass customers surveyed said they were considering canceling their membership, while just 37% said they were planning to stay with the service.

Fifty percent of those who canceled said they did so in the month prior to the survey. The two top reasons customers cited for canceling were MoviePass’s constant rule-changing and the inability to see their movies of choice, according to The Hollywood Reporter.

“MoviePass’s innovation was offering the freedom and flexibility to see any movie, at any time, at almost any theater, for a low price,” NRG CEO Jon Penn told The Hollywood Reporter. “By constantly changing the terms of service — limiting which films subscribers could see and when they could see them — MoviePass has eroded brand trust and undermined their leadership position.”
X

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MoviePass has changed its pricing model numerous times in the years since its debut. In 2011, a beta version of the service debuted in San Francisco, charging a monthly fee of $50 a month for customers to watch an unlimited number of movies. In 2012, the company moved to a pricing system that charged between $25 and $40 depending on what movie theaters charged in a particular area.

In 2016, former Redbox executive and Netflix co-founder Mitch Lowe took over the role of CEO. Under his stewardship, MoviePass tested price plans that allowed users to see six films for $40 to $50. Customers were ticked off, and MoviePass ended its testing and went back to an unlimited plan for $40 to $50 per month, again depending on location.

In August 2017, Helios and Matheson Analytics Inc. HMNY, -8.65% acquired a controlling stake in the company, and MoviePass again changed its pricing model — this time settling at $9.95 a month for one movie a day.

Subscriber numbers surged, hitting 1 million in December 2017 and surpassing 3 million in June 2018. But securities filings in the spring and early summer of 2018 showed the company was burning through cash at an alarming rate. Its monthly cash deficit was ballooning, and the company began to make a series of cash-making moves, entering an agreement to issue 20,500 shares of preferred stock and $164 million in convertible notes and filing a shelf registration statement to raise $1.2 billion over three years by issuing equity and debt.

Read: The spectacular rise and fall of MoviePass

Also read: Student-run fund preparing bailout plan for MoviePass, but it may be unwanted

Then, in early July, MoviePass announced it would be launching “peak pricing,” essentially a surcharge for popular films shown during popular showtimes, angering many subscribers who had signed up under the assumption they would only have to pay a flat monthly fee.

Still further irritating users, significant service interruptions began to occur due to Helios and Matheson's inability to make “required payments to its merchant and fulfillment processors,” according to the company. In early August, the company announced it would be implementing yet another new monthly fee of $14.95 and limiting access to certain popular newly-released movies.

MoviePass changed course a few days later after a barrage of complaints, saying it would be going back to its $9.95 monthly fee, but would cut subscribers’ film allowances to three movies a month.

“We’ve been whipsawing people back and forth,” Lowe told The Wall Street Journal at the time. “I think we’ve got it now.”

But for moviegoers, it may be too little, too late. According to the National Research Group’s poll, the percentage of customers who would be “very likely to recommend” MoviePass dropped to 52% from 84% in March. Fifty percent are worried that MoviePass “won’t last,” a significant chunk more than the 32% who said the same in the spring.

And other movie subscription services are gaining traction. Twenty-three percent of the total number of moviegoers surveyed said they were in favor of AMC Theatres’ AMC, -0.52% Stubs A-List program, which allows customers to see three movies a week in any format for a $19.95 monthly fee.

Read more: AMC’s subscription program now offers a better deal than MoviePass

Neither MoviePass nor Helios and Matheson responded to a request for comment by the time of publication.

Shares of Helios and Matheson have plummeted 100% in the year to date and are currently trading at just over 2 cents a share, despite the company implementing a 1-to-250 reverse stock split in July. The S&P 500 SPX, +0.55% has gained 8.3% so far this year.

MarketWatch Link from 8/29

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 08-29-2018, 08:17 PM:

I let mine renew one more time last week but this may be the final month unless they change again for the better. Right now it is so limited that I can really only use it if I go out of my way to see one of their handful of selections at a time I probably would not otherwise attend. They no longer cover the shows I've been seeing at the Music Box (Chicago) and I never did find out if it actually ever worked at U of Chicago Doc Films which was once listed.

It has pretty much become useless. If they would open it back up to cover nearly all non premium shows even if only 3 a month, I might see some value in it but otherwise not. I guess I will have to find something to see so the current 9.95 fee is not a total waste.

I just saw 2001 in Laser LIEMAX and Stubs A-List covered it. Sorry MP, but I think you are history. Hope your demise does not cause AMC to degrade A-List.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-29-2018, 08:28 PM:

The "upstart" subscription service, Sinemia, announced that they are lowering their price to....wait for it... $9.95 a month for 3 "standard" movies (or 2 upgraded movies). Their plan is better than Moviepass, considering you can see any movie at any showtime. They also have a $3.99 plan for one movie a month.

I wonder if THEY have any deals with theaters for discounted tickets. If they don't, they'll probably follow the path down the same rathole as Moviepass.

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 08-29-2018, 08:39 PM:

All our usual Moviepass users say we are no longer showing up in the app.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-30-2018, 01:32 PM:

An article in USA Today says that H&M has been notified they'll be delisted from NASDAQ if their shares don't get back to $1 or more by Dec. 18. Currently shares are at 2¢.

Posted by Timothy Eiler (Member # 383) on 09-14-2018, 10:07 AM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
An article in USA Today says that H&M has been notified they'll be delisted from NASDAQ if their shares don't get back to $1 or more by Dec. 18. Currently shares are at 2

Maybe it time for a Reverse Stock Split, it worked so well the last time they did it

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 09-14-2018, 12:14 PM:

Well, there are lots of other requirements, like for NASDAQ it's a minimum market cap of $550M... Eventually they could reverse-split it to just one big share, but their market cap still needs to match the criteria. [Wink]

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 09-14-2018, 01:32 PM:

They seem to have settled into the pattern of, new movies only available one day on the weekend. I'm curious how many actual showtimes are available.... for example today they're saying the new Predator is available, but can you get the evening showtimes?

Posted by Harold Hallikainen (Member # 5405) on 09-16-2018, 12:57 PM:

MoviePass executive resigns, citing management issues at once-trendy ticketing service

Another shoe just dropped at troubled movie ticketing service MoviePass.

Carl Schramm, a member of the board of directors for MoviePass' parent company Helios and Matheson Analytics, has resigned citing concerns about corporate management.

It's the latest issue for the once-trendy movie ticket subscription service, which revamped its subscription model recently to offset its cash burn. The ticketing service grew to more than 3 million subscribers when it began letting members see one movie each day for a $9.95 flat monthly fee. But two weeks ago, it reduced that to three movies a month.

"We believe this new business model will immediately reduce our burn so we can refocus our efforts where they belong: making a permanent and positive change in this industry by creating an amazing theater-going experience and building a company that continues to benefit our nationwide community,” Ted Farnsworth, chairman and CEO of Helios and Matheson Analytics, said at the time.

Schramm cites concerns about how Helios and Matheson Analytics' corporate strategy in a letter to Farnsworth dated Aug. 25.

"I have objected to the manner in which a number of business decisions have been presented to the Board of Directors by management, without sufficient time for the Board to examine complex documents, to review significant transactions, or to discuss how the proposed actions fit into the Company's strategic plan," Schramm says in a letter, a copy of which was filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

His concerns have escalated over the last two months, Schramm says, "as management apparently has made a number of important corporate decisions and executed significant transactions either without Board knowledge or approval, or in Board meetings initiated with only a few hours of advance notice by email."

At least one meeting ended before he knew it had been called, Schramm says in the letter. "Just last week, I learned that management withheld material information from the Board for several months," he said.

Earlier this month, MoviePass opted not to raise its price to $14.95, as planned, but did reduce the number of movies subscribers can see, saying the revamped plan focuses on the majority of subscribers who see three movies or less monthly.

Last month, the company applied for an emergency $5 million loan, which it has since repaid, when it ran out of cash. The MoviePass app suffered technical difficulties that weekend, and the company issued an apology over Twitter.

The concerns and changes in the subscription plan, which is accepted by more than 90 percent of theaters, has left an opening for competitors. Two months ago, AMC launched its own Stubs A-List $19.95 monthly service, which lets moviegoers attend up to three movies a week, including special theater screenings such as 3D and IMAX showings – a perk MoviePass does not allow.

Another competitor, Sinemia has a range of movie ticketing subscription plans starting at $3.99 monthly, including two $9.99 monthly plans – one for three movies monthly with no blackout dates and another for two movies monthly including IMAX and 3D showings. Its membership plans range from $3.99 monthly (for one 2D movie a month) to $14.99 for three movies each month. It also has family plans starting at $7.99 for two tickets to a film each month.

Sinemia's $7.99 monthly subscription for two movies at any theater was highly rated in a National Research Group survey released this week, with 41 percent of the 1,558 moviegoers surveyed saying they would be "very likely to subscribe" to such a plan.

MoviePass has lost some clout in brand perception, NRG says. Satisfaction in MoviePass has fallen over the past five months, the research group says, and 50 percent of those who have cancelled the service have done so within the past month. Only 37 percent of current MoviePass subscribers in the survey said they planned to stay with the service "for a long time," a decline from 62 percent in March.

Some subscribers are giving MoviePass the benefit of the doubt. Justin Kangas, of Waldoboro, Maine, said he is not bothered by the new monthly limit. He sees three movies or less a month, which MoviePass has said is typical for 85 percent of its members. He is disappointed, however, by the company’s “inability to communicate clearly, provide adequate customer service and rapid-fire changes.”

“Hopefully they figure things out because at the end of the day, we need a more affordable way for your average consumer to see movies at the theater if theaters are going to survive,” said Kangas, a school principal who has been a subscriber for a year.

Despite MoviePass’s recent problems, consumers sill have a "healthy appetite for movie ticket subscription services," NRG said in the survey, with 39 percent of moviegoers "expressing definite interest in a vibrant subscription-based plan."

Helios and Matheson Analytics (HMNY) shares have fallen from a share price of more than $2 in January to two cents Thursday, despite a reverse stock split last month. In June, NASDAQ notified the company that its shares could be delisted from the exchange if it does not return to $1 per share or more by Dec. 18.

Losses of $104 million during April-June period, primarily due to operating expenses of MoviePass, led HMNY to report a net loss of $83.7 million for the quarter ending June 30, 2018.

Amid all its problems, MoviePass has launched a contest to "celebrate" the first anniversary of dropping its monthly fee to $9.95. The prizes in the "Ultimate MoviePass Getaway" contest, which runs through Friday, include a Los Angeles trip for two, annual MoviePass passes and other swag worth $4,000.

Contributing: Kelly Tyko, The (Stuart, Fla.) News. Follow USA TODAY reporter Mike Snider on Twitter: @MikeSnider.

Copyright 2017 USATODAY.com

https://www.krem.com/article/news/nation-now/moviepass-executive-resigns-citing-management-issues-at-once-trendy-ticketing-service/465-de4d74e4-58fc-4ee6-9b34-28ff2d69b250

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 09-16-2018, 05:34 PM:

quote: Harold Hallikainen
we can refocus our efforts where they belong: making a permanent and positive change in this industry by creating an amazing theater-going experience

He's totally delusional if he really believes Moviepass has anything to do with "an amazing theater-going experience."

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 09-16-2018, 10:10 PM:

In the end, the "Moviepass idea" will probably result in each chain having their own subscription plan like AMC already has. The fight then will be for the customer's loyalty to that particular chain.

Moviepass's big mistake was not partnering with the theaters first. They got greedy with the whole "any theater in the country" part of the plan.

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 09-17-2018, 12:55 AM:

It's another example of the dot-bombs: We'll get lots of customers by selling X at a loss and figure out how to make a profit from those customers later on. After all, having lots of customers has to have value.

Right?

......

Hey, guys, am I right?

.....

Yoo Hoo! Where did all the investors go?

Has anyone seen my investors?

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 09-17-2018, 01:38 AM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
Moviepass's big mistake was not partnering with the theaters first. They got greedy with the whole "any theater in the country" part of the plan.

I'd think you would need the support of both a bunch of studios and theater chains to make this in any way profitable.

Obviously, they're not going to talk to you, without any kind of track record or leverage. Why would they give you a piece of their cake? If you claim there will be more cake for everyone, then prove it...

That's probably why they started on their full-frontal rampage by offering an "unlimited" product for roughly 10 bucks per month. In their opinion it would buy them leverage.

In reality, MoviePass didn't really make the cake bigger and all those studios and theater chains had to do was to hold their breath, until the moment they ran out of cash.

If you look at the partners MoviePass signed up, you only see two chains that committed themselves. Studio Movie Grill being more in the restaurant business than the movie business and Landmark Theaters, owned by someone who considers himself a big disruptor...

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 09-17-2018, 07:17 AM:

I think the Movie Pass thing would have worked if they were less ambitious on how many movies one could see and to be up-front on the selling of data. I think if the plan was on the order of one movie a week, 52 movies a year for $120.00, they would have still gotten quite a bit of subscription. That is still dropping the price of seeing a movie to just under $2/movie. The avid movie goer would have gotten a very good deal and the average movie goer that sees to 2-3 movies a month would have gotten a decent deal too. However, the real value to Movie Pass would have been in the selling of viewer data...how far people drive, what movies different people see...etc. When listing theatres, they could have indeed made it easier to find theatres that partner with them (sort of like google searches). They could have also partnered with other industries like restaurants as another source of revenue.

But they went for a heavy loss system and then cut back on the selling of information leaving them no source of revenue and a massive cash drain. Their plan of stiff-arming exhibitors for a cut of the ticket and concession pie was a non-starter for most. Now, in some areas, that was a good deal as some exhibitors reported new business due to their MP relationship. And, indeed, I think there could have been deals, in some markets for MP to sell the ability to put YOUR theatre at the top of the list for a particular title.

I don't think it was an inherently a bad idea, but very poor execution with, seemingly, no thought on how to really turn a profit.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 09-17-2018, 10:32 AM:

People can think what they want about how this "could have worked".

No major chain and 99% of all serious independents aren't going to give $3 off a ticket and 25% of their popcorn revenue to anyone, much less an arrogant outsider, who just waltzes in the door and tells them they're going to do it.

Without that revenue split from the really big chains, it's only a matter of time before this cartoon is over.

Lowe and Farnsworth misread their targets (theatre owners and subscribers from the beginning. The only reason people bought into it was the fake "really good deal", paid for by the investors they never saw. What many of them did see coming was the end, and used the service as much as they could. Moviepass cried foul, even though they set it up that way in the first place. Of course, people were going to use it, stupid! You were giving it away.

How many people drive a freeway at 50, knowing they could legally drive 70 if they wanted to? Just about nobody around here does.

Before long, this is all that'll be left of Moviepass. They can hang it on their walls as a reminder of how smart they were.

Posted by Harold Hallikainen (Member # 5405) on 09-17-2018, 01:38 PM:

How movie theaters are surviving big tech

https://www.axios.com/how-movie-theaters-are-surviving-big-tech-ee707f24-a5fe-4bf3-b0b6-cc2cfb429666.html

Technology companies are trying to disrupt the decades-old movie theater business, but unlike with other industries, they haven't entirely been able to crack the code.

Why it matters: Movie theater admissions have been relatively stable for the past three decades, despite the explosion of options technology has afforded consumers in entertainment. And those tech firms that are trying to break through the ticketing supply chain aren't having much luck.

MoviePass, the monthly subscription theater ticketing service with a beloved unlimited-ticket plan, has gone through a rough few months trying to develop a sustainable business model. And many analysts think it will be difficult for the startup to figure it out.

"MoviePass is going to be gone pretty soon. Up until the newest plan, unlimited tickets cost them $9.95. The average consumer watched three movies, so they spent a total of $25 and lost $15 ... It didn't make sense ... An exhibitor can offer that because it only has to pay the film rent."
— Michael Pachter, a research analyst at Wedbush Securities

MoviePass says it will survive. CEO Mitch Lowe said in an interview with Cheddar Wednesday the company will be profitable in 6-9 months, despite dragging shares for its parent company Helios and Matheson down by roughly 99 percent in the last year.

It recently introduced a new plan to limit monthly movie access to just three movies per month. Lowe says in one day "15% of our subscribers converted to 3-movie plan."

The problem for MoviePass, and other tech startups trying to disrupt the distribution landscape, like Sinemia, is that they will inevitably have higher costs than the theater companies themselves that are building competitive programs.

Cinemark announced Thursday that its subscription program Movie Club, which launched in December for $8.99 per month, reached 350,000 active members.

AMC announced last week that its subscription program "AMC Stubs A-list" has reached 182,275 members in five weeks.
To MoviePass' credit, Cinemark CEO Mark Zoradi told Deadline that MoviePass “has helped create awareness of subscription moviegoing," which could be what's helping boost theaters' programs.

Other big tech companies are investing in ticketing and theater ownership, but not for the purpose of competing directly with existing theaters.

Facebook brokered a partnership with AMC last month to help the theater chain sell tickets. Swapna Joshi, Facebook's product manager for movie ticketing, says it's "another way we're working to make going to the movies fun and easy." Facebook also has integrations with Fandango and Atom Tickets.

Netflix has considered buying movie theater chains in New York and Los Angeles, in an effort to gain an edge on Oscar nominations, per The Los Angeles Times. The company has said that it plans to release 80 original films this year.

Still, movie theaters need to innovate to capture consumers' shifting attention spans and to make sure their steady record of attendance doesn't slip.

Most are investing in new experiences to make the theater experience more dynamic, like fancier concessions and reclining seats.

They're also creating subscription programs that give customers more flexibility.
One area where tech is causing some concern, according to analysts, is the release window between studios and streamers.

Streaming platforms like Netflix, which are quickly approaching saturation in U.S. homes, often have rights to these movies within less than a year of theatrical debut.

This runs the risk of audiences getting used to waiting for content, rather than paying to see it in person. (Other rights releases for traditional television networks, Pay-per-view and DVR vary, but can be years-long.)

The window of release has caused a rift between studios and theaters for a while. Studios interested in cross-marketing want to get digital movies to viewers at home shortly after their release in theaters, but that makes theaters unhappy.

See original article (link above) for interesting graph on revenue through different channels.

Bottom line: Americans still like to watch movies, but more options for accessing them are forcing theaters to adapt. Forecasts (like the one above) suggest that they will continue to adapt enough to grow revenues — at least slightly.

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 09-17-2018, 06:23 PM:

quote: Harold Hallikainen
Most are investing in new experiences to make the theater experience more dynamic, like fancier concessions and reclining seats.

I don't think the word "dynamic" means what he thinks it means.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 09-19-2018, 04:03 PM:

If the shareholders approve, they are going to do another reverse stock split next month, this time 1-for-500.

So I guess everything will be fine?

Posted by Jonathan M. Crist (Member # 413) on 10-17-2018, 06:34 PM:

Well here comes the cavalry ..... late as usual.

New York AG launches probe into MoviePass parent company for allegedly misleading investors

New York Attorney General Barbara Underwood has opened a probe into MoviePass parent company Helios and Matheson, a person familiar with the matter told CNBC.

The attorney general’s office is investigating whether the company misled the investment community regarding the company’s financials, said the person. The investigation is in the early stages.

The attorney general is using the Martin Act, a statute designed to protect New York investors and the integrity of the financial markets from fraud.

It’s another stumble for MoviePass, which in recent months has repeatedly adjusted its movie subscription plans and taken out hefty loans to cover massive losses.

In August, Helios and Matheson reported a loss of $100 million in the second quarter, putting the company on pace to blow through its remaining assets in the span of months.

The company skyrocketed to popularity with an initial subscription that allowed moviegoers to see a film a day for $9.95 per month. But the popularity hurt profits, and MoviePass quickly adjusted the plan to limit the available movies, raise monthly prices and restrict the number of films users could see per month.

Meanwhile, Helios and Matheson’s stock lost practically all of its value. Based on the company’s most recently reported share count of 1.5 billion shares outstanding, the company trades at an implied valuation of $30 million.

Shares of Helios and Matheson fell 3 percent in extended trading Wednesday, though the stock trades for just 2 cents per share. A spokesperson for Helios and Matheson declined to comment.

NY Attorney General Investigates

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 10-22-2018, 11:12 AM:

Nobody probably cares anymore, but I saw this tidbit on cbsnews.com today:

quote:
The company's closing stock price on Friday: 0.0168 cents.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 10-22-2018, 06:24 PM:

quote:
Nobody probably cares anymore, but I saw this tidbit on cbsnews.com today:

quote:
The company's closing stock price on Friday: 0.0168 cents.

Yeah... it's been hovering at around that price for quite a while now.

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 10-22-2018, 07:21 PM:

Over the last few weeks I've notice a lot of our Movie Pass customers have pretty much given up on using it. I don't know if they have had too many times where the show time they want is not available, or if they are checking and the time they want isn't available.

We never had a ton of MP customers, but at it's peak we were doing 25-30 transactions a week. Now were down to just a handful a week, and some weeks with none at all.

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 10-23-2018, 09:26 AM:

Just Stay Dead:
Variety

quote:
In a bid to save MoviePass, the struggling theater-subscription service’s parent — Helios & Matheson Analytics — announced a plan to spin off the division as a separate, publicly traded entity called MoviePass Entertainment Holdings.

HMNY said its board had preliminarily approved the spinoff plan that would combine MoviePass Inc. and other film related assets held by HMNY to create a “vertically integrated” entertainment company.

There’s no guarantee Helios & Matheson will be able to execute the spinoff. For one thing, HMNY said that it’s not sure such a transaction is allowed under Delaware law. Meanwhile, the company is under investigation by the New York Attorney General’s office into whether HMNY misled investors, and the company has been sued by investors alleging it deceived shareholders.

The proposed MoviePass Entertainment Holdings would include: the shares of common stock of MoviePass Inc. held by HMNY, which currently owns 92% of the outstanding shares; the membership interests of MoviePass Films, HMNY’s movie production company partnered with Emmett Furla Oasis Films; the membership interests of MoviePass Ventures, which was established to acquire completed films; Moviefone, which HMNY bought from Verizon’s Oath earlier this year.

“Since we acquired control of MoviePass in December 2017, HMNY largely has become synonymous with MoviePass in the public’s eye, leading us to believe that our shareholders and the market perception of HMNY might benefit from separating our movie-related assets from the rest of our company,” Ted Farnsworth, chairman and CEO of HMNY, said in a prepared statement.

Earlier this year, MoviePass touted that it had topped 2 million subscribers for its service letting customers see one movie per day for just $9.95 per month. But the deal was too good to be true: The surge in users caused an enormous cash drain on HMNY and the company was forced to take out several loans. To stay afloat, MoviePass drastically changed its offer in August to limit customers to only three movies per month for the same price and curtailed access to wide-release movies during peak demand.

Helios & Matheson said that “if permitted to do so under applicable Delaware law,” it plans to distribute a minority of the outstanding shares of MoviePass Entertainment common stock as a dividend to stockholders of HMNY as of a record date that is yet to be determined, with HMNY retaining control of MoviePass Entertainment.

Other caveats on the spinoff plan: According to HMNY, a dividend of MoviePass Entertainment shares and/or a contemplated listing of MoviePass Entertainment on Nasdaq (or an alternate trading market) are “subject to numerous conditions.” Those include: completion of the contemplated reorganization; completion of audited financial statements of MoviePass Entertainment; the filing and effectiveness of a registration statement by MoviePass Entertainment with the SEC; the approved listing of shares of MoviePass Entertainment on Nasdaq or an alternate trading market; and HMNY being permitted to distribute MoviePass Entertainment shares under Delaware law, “of which there is no assurance,” according to Helios & Matheson.

Following the MoviePass Entertainment spinoff, HMNY plans to retain its ownership of Zone Technologies and would discontinue its previously announced plan to spin off Zone. HMNY said it plans to continue focusing on data analytics and consumer-centric technologies.

Posted by Buck Wilson (Member # 5885) on 10-23-2018, 05:58 PM:

quote: Justin Hamaker
Over the last few weeks I've notice a lot of our Movie Pass customers have pretty much given up on using it. I don't know if they have had too many times where the show time they want is not available, or if they are checking and the time they want isn't available.

We never had a ton of MP customers, but at it's peak we were doing 25-30 transactions a week. Now were down to just a handful a week, and some weeks with none at all.

Same trend here. We were probably doubling or more your MP transactions at the height of this, but now... I've seen mayyyybe 3 MP cards in as many weeks, and I've been working in box a lot lately.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 10-23-2018, 07:46 PM:

As of today, the total number of "Are you going to take MoviePass?" inquiries we've had is still standing at 1.

Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 10-24-2018, 01:07 PM:

> In a bid to save MoviePass, the struggling theater-subscription service’s parent — Helios & Matheson Analytics — announced a plan to spin off the division as a separate, publicly traded entity called MoviePass Entertainment Holdings.

Sounds like a questionable plan to allow them to flush MoviePass down the bankruptcy drain without impacting their other business interests.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 10-24-2018, 05:45 PM:

And prob come out good on the P&L statements with this spinoff.

Posted by Jonathan M. Crist (Member # 413) on 02-13-2019, 02:13 PM:

To the Surprise of no one Helios & Matheson (parent of MoviePass) has been de-listed from Nasdaq stock exchange effective February 13, 2019.

Helios and Matheson Analytics, the parent company of movie-ticket subscription service MoviePass, has been kicked off the Nasdaq, it disclosed in a filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission on Tuesday. It will now trade over the counter under the same ticker, HMNY. Helios had failed to meet the Nasdaq's listing standards by trading under $1 per share since July. In December, the Nasdaq sent Helios a warning that the company would delisted, but Helios appealed the decision. The effort failed. "The Company timely appealed the delisting notice and appeared in front of the Panel on January 31, 2019," Helios wrote in the filing. "The Panel issued a decision on February 11, 2019, and determined to delist the Company's common stock from The Nasdaq Capital Market. The suspension of trading in the Company's common stock on the Nasdaq Capital Market will be effective at the open of business on February 13, 2019." Helios raised its profile in the summer of 2017 when it acquired MoviePass and lowered the service's monthly subscription price to $9.95 a month to see one movie in theaters per day. The move led to millions of new subscribers, but also hundreds of millions of dollars in losses. Helios has primarily used the selling of billions of new shares to cover its losses, and has seen its stock lose over 99% of its value. Despite this, the company said in a statement to Business Insider that "HMNY's delisting has no effect on the day-to-day business operations of HMNY or its subsidiaries, including MoviePass and MoviePass Films."

In January, Helios announced that it had sent a registration statement to the SEC to make MoviePass a separate public company. In a statement Tuesday to Business Insider, Helios said that effort would continue. "HMNY will consider applying to be listed on an exchange again should it meet the applicable listing criteria in the future," the company also noted. Helios had a complicated history as a Nasdaq-listed company before getting kicked off. Before the MoviePass era, the New York outpost of Helios and Matheson was controlled by an Indian company (Helios and Matheson Information Technology), which stands accused of defrauding at least 5,000 creditors in India, including banks and senior citizens.

Here is Helios' full statement on its delisting: "HMNY's delisting has no effect on the day-to-day business operations of HMNY or its subsidiaries, including MoviePass and MoviePass Films. HMNY expects that its common stock will begin trading on the over-the-counter market on Wednesday, February 13, 2019. HMNY will consider applying to be listed on an exchange again should it meet the applicable listing criteria in the future. In the meantime, HMNY is proceeding with its planning efforts to effectuate a partial spin-off of MoviePass Entertainment Holdings Inc. ("MoviePass Entertainment"), which would take ownership of HMNY's film industry related assets, including its shares of MoviePass Inc., membership interest in MoviePass Films and MoviePass Ventures and the Moviefone entertainment information service. The spin-off remains subject to numerous conditions, as previously described in HMNY's SEC filings."

Movie Pass Parent DeListed From NASDAQ Exchange

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 02-13-2019, 03:03 PM:

The thing still isn't dead yet?

Apparently, their pricing is now zip-code dependent. Maybe it's sensing my non-US IP address or it's just the head that forgot the body to tell it's already dead? But, I've entered a few zip codes, one of mid-town Manhattan, the other one an old one of where I've actually lived for a few months and one of a friend of mine in Austin (Texas), yet no pricing information shows up.

Their theater finder appears to be dead for me, too.

Also, if you want to reactivate your dead moviepass, you seem to be out of luck.

Fortunately, you can still buy MoviePass Mugs.

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 03-19-2019, 11:36 PM:

Apparently it's not dead yet:

MoviePass brings back its unlimited movie plan

quote:
MoviePass brings back its unlimited movie plan, with a limited time price of $9.95

MoviePass is bringing back a version of the plan that made it so popular in the first place — a subscription where you pay a monthly fee and get an unlimited number of 2D movie tickets.

MoviePass Uncapped will have a regular price of $19.95 per month, but the company is offering cheaper deals for what it says is a limited time. If you’re willing to pay for a full year (via ACH payment), it will cost the same as that original unlimited plan, namely $9.95 per month. If you don’t want to make a full-year commitment, it will cost $14.95 per month.

Now, you may be thinking that this kind of deal is exactly what got MoviePass into so much trouble last year, to the point where it nearly ran out of money and began announcing new pricing plans and restrictions on a seemingly constant basis.

However, the company’s announcement today includes multiple references to its ability to “combat violations” of MoviePass’ terms of use. And those terms do say that “MoviePass has the right to limit the selection of movies and/or the times of available movies should your individual use adversely impact MoviePass’s system-wide capacity or the availability of the Service for other subscribers.”

So if you’re a heavy MoviePass user, the plan may not be truly unlimited.

In addition, you’ll only be able to reserve tickets three hours before showtime, and you’ll need to check in to the theater between 10 and 30 minutes before the movie starts.

This new plan replaces the ones announced in December. If you’ve already signed up, you can stick to those subscriptions, but new users won’t have that option.

In a statement, Ted Farnsworth, CEO of MoviePass parent company Helios and Matheson Analytics, said:

We are – and have been – listening to our subscribers every day, and we understand that an uncapped subscription plan at the $9.95 price point is the most appealing option to our subscribers. While we’ve had to modify our service a number of times in order to continue delivering a movie-going experience to our subscribers, with this new offering we are doing everything we can to bring people a version of the service that originally won their hearts.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-20-2019, 12:06 AM:

quote: Techcrunch article
In addition, you’ll only be able to reserve tickets three hours before showtime, and you’ll need to check in to the theater between 10 and 30 minutes before the movie starts.

So basically they're selling standby movie-going? I suppose this approach could work on movies a couple or so weeks after their debut in theaters with regular un-assigned seating. It would be lousy for premium screens or any theaters with reserved seats. Recently when my girlfriend and I watched Captain Marvel I had to buy my seats for that Sunday afternoon show the previous Friday afternoon in order to get good seats.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 03-22-2019, 04:40 AM:

It's not the first time we've had this discussion, but I'd say that introducing the "standby experience" to the moviegoing experience will be the end of it.

Since everybody now carries their own "TV set" in the form of a smartphone, the function of the theater as a place to get the latest news, will never ever return. Therefore, going to a theater, is a special event.

While going on vacation might also be considered a special event, flying coach as a standby passenger on a low-cost airline isn't usually seen as the highlight of that special event, it's the necessary evil.

Movie theaters have to offer a moviegoing experience that outperforms watching the same movie a few weeks later at home. If the experience is comparable to flying on a low-cost airline, I'd rather stay at home. Nobody is forcing me to watch that movie in those circumstances.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-22-2019, 12:16 PM:

I'm surprised Farnsworth still has a job. Although who would want to replace him?

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 03-22-2019, 12:41 PM:

So you thought it couldn't get worse?

GIZMODO

quote:

MoviePass Co-Founder's New Startup Must Be Stopped
Melanie Ehrenkranz

The co-founder of MoviePass wants to make going to the movies more affordable, so long as you’re comfortable submitting to mandatory ad watching and creepy surveillance tech. PreShow, an invitation-only service launched by Stacy Spikes, uses facial recognition software to make sure you are actively tuning into a hellacious amount of ads. In return for this indentured consumerism, you get a free movie ticket.

According to the PreShow Kickstarter, which launched on Thursday, the company uses its “proprietary facial identification software” to ensure you actually watch the 15 to 20 minutes of branded content on your device. “The motion detector automatically pauses playback if you have to step away,” according to the project page. “You can resume watching anytime at your leisure.”

It’s not until you’ve watched the entire ad that you’ll be credited your free movie ticket. The Kickstarter page states that privacy is a “top concern” for the company, and that while no users are recorded and no “personally identifiable data is shared,” they can share aggregated and anonymized data to their partners. So your uniquely personal habits may, as they claim, remain private, but the accumulated data still offers brands insight into the behavior of certain groups of people. That’s valuable and exploitable information for a company that profits exactly from that.

“Well, why can’t you have an ad-supported version that will allow you to go to movies for free?” Spikes told TechCrunch.

It’s possible that PreShow is mostly a B2B play to license their watch-the-fucking-ad technology to third parties. In the world of movie business model “disruption,” such licensing is common. Both MoviePass and competitor Sinemia have attempted to do this with their ticket-subscription tech.

Of course, as we’ve increasingly come to understand, “free” is a loaded word when it comes to reaping the benefits in the digital age—a free service oftentimes means sacrificing your time and your privacy. In PreShow’s case, it dangles the promise of a “free” movie-going experience for what’s a stone’s throw from clamping your eyes open to make sure you consume the necessary content.

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 03-22-2019, 01:31 PM:

If it's like other facial recognition stuff you can probably get around it by propping a photo of someone in front of the camera and then coming back in twenty minutes.

But still... how silly can you get? It sounds like it should be a joke, but of course it isn't.

Posted by Harold Hallikainen (Member # 5405) on 03-22-2019, 05:39 PM:

And, now for another perspective!

https://oracledispatch.com/2019/03/20/why-helios-and-matheson-analytics-inc-otcmktshmny-shares-just-caught-fire/

Why Helios and Matheson Analytics Inc (OTCMKTS:HMNY) Shares Just Caught Fire
By James Hudson - March 20, 2019
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Shares of Helios and Matheson Analytics Inc (OTCMKTS:HMNY) boomed higher on Tuesday following an article in the Financial Times outlining the return of the company’s unlimited movie pass just months after the cinema subscription service moved to cap viewings to 3 times a month.

According to the article, “MoviePass launched a new “uncapped” subscription plan — which includes unlimited 2D movies in its theatre network that consists of 30,000 screens — for a limited time at a cost of $9.95 a month for a 12-month subscription, available immediately. For those who do not want to be locked into a year-long contract, the company is also offering an uncapped plan at a cost of $14.95 per month. MoviePass said the rate for both plans would rise to $19.95 a month when the two offers expire.”

Helios and Matheson Analytics Inc (OTCMKTS:HMNY) trumpets itself as a company that provides a range of information technology (IT) solutions to Fortune 1000 companies and other organizations in the United States.

The company’s services include application value management, application development, integration, independent validation, infrastructure, information management, and analytics services. Its clients operate in various industries, including banking, financial services, automotive, insurance, and healthcare.

The company was formerly known as Helios and Matheson Information Technology Inc. and changed its name to Helios and Matheson Analytics Inc. in May 2013. Helios and Matheson Analytics Inc. was founded in 1982 and is headquartered in New York, New York.

MoviePass Inc. is a marketing technology platform enhancing the exploration of film and the moviegoing experience. As a premier movie-theater subscription service, MoviePass provides film enthusiasts the ability to attend select new movies in theaters. The service is now accepted at theaters everywhere in the U.S. Visit us at moviepass.com.

MoviePass Films LLC is dedicated to supporting independent filmmakers and distributors by collaborating with creatives, co-acquiring equity stakes in films and offering them enhanced performance in the theatrical window. A joint venture of Helios and Matheson Analytics Inc. and Emmett Furla Oasis (EFO) Films, MoviePass Films focuses on studio-driven content and new film production for theatrical release and other distribution channels, with the goal of democratizing the film production experience by bridging the gap between moviegoers and film industry endeavors.

According to company materials, “Helios and Matheson Analytics Inc. (OTC:HMNY) (“Helios”) currently owns approximately 92% of the outstanding shares (excluding options and warrants) of MoviePass, a premier movie-theater subscription service, 100% of the outstanding equity interests of MoviePass Ventures LLC, and 51% of the outstanding equity interests of MoviePass Films. Helios also owns Moviefone™, a multimedia media information and advertising service. Helios’ holdings include RedZone Map™, a safety and navigation app for iOS and Android users, and a community-based ecosystem that features a socially empowered safety map app that enhances mobile GPS navigation using advanced proprietary technology. Helios is headquartered in New York and quoted on the OTC Market under the symbol HMNY. For more information, visit us at www.hmny.com.”

As noted above, HMNY was just featured in an FT article about the return of its unlimited movie pass. The chart shows 63% during the past month in terms of shareholder gains in the listing. Moreover, the stock has benefitted from a jump in recent trading volume to the tune of 0% above the average volume levels in play in this stock over the longer term.

“While we’ve had to modify our service a number of times in order to continue delivering a moviegoing experience to our subscribers, with this new offering we are doing everything we can to bring people a version of the service that originally won their hearts,” said chief executive Ted Farnsworth.

Earning a current market cap value of $23.22M, HMNY has a significant war chest ($4.9M) of cash on the books, which compares with about $54.7M in total current liabilities. HMNY is pulling in trailing 12-month revenues of $211.7M. In addition, the company is seeing major top-line growth, with y/y quarterly revenues growing at 6834.2%. This may be a very interesting story and we will look forward to updating it again soon. Sign-up for continuing coverage on shares of $HMNY stock, as well as other hot stock picks, get our free newsletter today and get our next breakout pick!

Disclosure: we hold no position in $HMNY, either long or short, and we have not been compensated for this article.

So, is "catching fire" getting up to a penny per share? $23.2M market cap, $4.9M cash, $54.7M current liabilities (what about long term liabilities?). Looks like a great buy to me! (as we say in ham radio, hi hi hi).

Harold

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 03-23-2019, 08:55 AM:

What is this in theatre network of 30,000 screens it claims to have?

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 04-18-2019, 05:31 PM:

MoviePass Has Lost Over 90% of Its Subscribers in Less Than a Year

quote:

MoviePass users apparently hit the exits en masse after it scaled back the number of movies users could see each month: The flailing cinema-subscription provider has seen its subscriber rolls plunge from a peak of more than 3 million to just 225,000 in under a year, according to a new report.

The numbers were reported by Business Insider, which cited “internal data” it had obtained. Asked for comment, a MoviePass spokeswoman declined to confirm the subscriber figure.

In June 2018, MoviePass claimed it had signed up more than 3 million subscribers for its $9.95 monthly plan, which let customers see one movie every single day. But that proved unsustainable, and MoviePass was forced to change that to a three-movies-per-month plan. In August 2018, MoviePass Inc. began to convert subscribers on annual subscription plans to the three-movies-per-month subscription plan, by giving annual subscribers the option to either cancel or refund their annual subscription or continue on the new three-movies-per-month subscription plan.

Evidently, over 90% of MoviePass’ previous subscribers didn’t care to continue paying for the service given the dramatically scaled-backed terms.

Last month, MoviePass introduced a refashioned “unlimited” plan, dubbed Uncapped, priced at $14.95 per month (or $119.4 per year), to again allow customers to see one movie daily. But it comes with big caveats, described by MoviePass like this: “Your movie choices may be restricted due to excessive individual usage which negatively impacts system-wide capacity.” According to the BI report, MoviePass has signed up only about 13,000 new subscribers Uncapped launched in mid-March.

As of March 21, 2019, Helios & Matheson Analytics (MoviePass’ parent company) said it had cash on hand of about $2.8 million and approximately $13.1 million on deposit with its merchant and fulfillment processors related to subscription revenues.

Last month, Helios and Matheson said it raised a $6 million new round of financing from “certain institutional investors,” which closed March 25. The company said it would use the $5.56 million net proceeds (after placement-agent fees) “to accelerate MoviePass’ product development, fine tune its subscription technology, and increase MoviePass Films’ investment in new films.”

Helios & Matheson last filed financial results for the September 2018 quarter. Last month, it restated results for the first nine months of 2018 — saying it had a net loss of $256.4 million (versus $246.9 million previously) and an operating loss of $327.4 million (versus $320 million before). The company’s revenue for the first three quarters of 2018 was restated as $198.3 million (compared with $204.9 million)

HMNY said those misstatements were the result of “the erroneous recognition of up to approximately $5.9 million of revenue from certain MoviePass subscriptions that were in a suspended state due to changes made to the MoviePass subscription service that had not yet been consented to by the applicable subscribers.” The company also included $700,000 in revenue from the sale of subscriptions by Costco, but those subscriptions were refunded and MoviePass didn’t factor that into its earnings.

Last fall, the New York Attorney General opened a securities-fraud probe into whether Helios and Matheson misled investors. Among other legal woes, MoviePass also is the target of a class-action lawsuit by subscribers claiming the the change in the “unlimited” plan was a deceptive “bait-and-switch” tactic.

Separately, MoviePass is suing rival Sinemia, alleging patent infringement. A judge earlier this month allowed MoviePass’ lawsuit to proceed.

Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 04-21-2019, 10:40 AM:

quote: Frank Cox
If it's like other facial recognition stuff you can probably get around it by propping a photo of someone in front of the camera and then coming back in twenty minutes.

I'm sure they can put things in the algorithm to look for blinks, subtle eye movement and subtle head movement. I'm sure somebody could defeat it but it would be more effort than watching the ads.

Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 04-29-2019, 04:57 PM:

Another one bites the dust:

From USA Today via Yahoo News.

quote:

As moviegoers rush to the theaters in record numbers to find out which Marvel heroes will be resurrected from the dead in "Avengers: Endgame," the movie subscription service Sinemia announced that it's game over for the company's U.S. operations – effective immediately.

The MoviePass competitor announced on its website Thursday that it's calling it quits just as the latest Avengers movie began breaking box office records on its first day.

"Today, with a heavy heart, we’re announcing that Sinemia is closing its doors and ending operations in the US," a notice on the company's website reads. "We want to sincerely thank our customers that believed in us and helped us along the way."
Why the sudden shutdown?

Sinemia, which billed itself as a sustainable cinema subscription service, cited “unexpected legal proceedings” and a lack of “funds required to continue operations.”

The movie-subscription company has been beleaguered by lawsuits in the past year, including a class-action suit from customers saying they were the victims of a “bait-and-switch” scheme involving hidden processing fees.

Sinemia also faces a lawsuit from rival MoviePass, which accused the Turkish company of stealing patented features in its app.

"We are all witnessing that the future of moviegoing is evolving through movie ticket subscriptions," Sinemia said in a statement on its website.

"However, we didn’t see a path to sustainability as an independent movie ticket subscription service in the face of competition from movie theaters as they build their own subscriptions."
What are my other options?

As movie lovers look for thrifty ways to save money on cinema tickets, theater chains have smelled blood in the water, devising their own cash-saving subscription plans to please customers.

Cinemark Movie Club, for instance, costs $8.99 per month and provides 20 percent off concessions, rollover and companion tickets, reserved seating and no online fees.

AMC continues to gain traction with its multiplex subscription service AMC Stubs A-List, which gives film lovers a way to see three screenings a week for roughly $20 a month.

Meanwhile, MoviePass has experimented with a range of subscription schemes in the past year. Most recently it rolled out an “uncapped” movie-per-day plan that costs $9.95 a month if you pay for 12 months upfront.
Ok, so can I get my money back?

Sinemia's announcement does not say whether customers who paid for yearly plans up front would get partial refunds.

However, a Reddit thread says some users who paid annual memberships are receiving pro-rated refunds from Chase.

Still, you may not get your money back directly from Sinemia for the time being, seeing as though the company has just filed for bankruptcy in Delaware. In the filing, Sinemia listed $1.2 million in assets and $158,000 in liabilities (as well as the pending cases).

USA TODAY reached out to the company to get more information about refunds. This story will be updated accordingly.
What's next for Sinemia?

An earlier report by Bloomberg suggested that shutting down the service allows Sinemia to focus their business on helping existing theater chains build subscription plans.

For now, Sinemia still operates in Canada, Australia and the U.K. It’s not immediately clear what the company's plans are for those other countries.

Posted by Andrew Maddison (Member # 4499) on 05-10-2019, 04:27 AM:

quote:
For now, Sinemia still operates in Canada, Australia and the U.K. It’s not immediately clear what the company's plans are for those other countries.

I'm not sure Sinemia really "operate" properly in the UK - I signed up for their 3 movies a month card and they didn't manage to send me a card within 4 months (Sinemia's argument against my chargeback request was that the product had gone fully online in the meantime, but a lot of cinemas' terms and conditions require you to have the physical card used to book your tickets, and when I signed up it stated that it would come with a physical card).
I would have used it for trips to iSense, IMAX (70mm or with Laser) or Dolby Cinema screens which would have made the subscription fee worthwhile, so I was quite disappointed that they hadn't held up their end of the deal.

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 09-13-2019, 04:25 PM:

And That's a Wrap
Variety

quote:
MoviePass Shuts Down, With Parent Company Citing Failure to Raise Funds
For more than a year, MoviePass has had trouble keeping the lights on. Just before the July 4 holiday, it said it was suspending service for several weeks in order to fix technical issues and finish work on a new version of its app. In August, it claimed to have restored service to “a substantial number of our current subscribers.”

Meanwhile, also last month, MoviePass confirmed that a security issue may have left customers records exposed online, including credit card info.

In August 2018, MoviePass eliminated the popular one-movie-per-day plan, priced at $9.95 per month — an offer that proved to be economically unsustainable. It replaced that with a new $9.95 plan letting subscribers see just three movies each month, but that evidently was not a viable path to profitability either. This year, it rolled out a refashioned “unlimited” option, for $14.95 per month, to again allow customers to see one movie daily but warning that movie choices would be restricted based on “system-wide capacity.”

For full-year 2018, Helios and Matheson’s net loss more than doubled, to $329.3 million, on revenue of $232.3 million, according to its most recent financial filing. The company acquired control of MoviePass in 2017. Helios and Matheson’s shares were delisted from the Nasdaq on Feb. 12, 2019, after its stock price failed to meet the exchange’s $1-per-share minimum requirement, and have been available in over-the-counter trading.

Helios and Matheson is being investigated by the New York Attorney General, which is looking into whether the company misled investors. The company also is the target of a class-action lawsuit by MoviePass subscribers claiming the change in the “unlimited” plan was a deceptive “bait-and-switch” tactic.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 09-14-2019, 03:17 PM:

I'll have to admit, I'll miss the ongoing comedy/tragedy.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 09-14-2019, 03:22 PM:

On the other hand, it is nothing but fair it is finally coming to THAT end...

- Carsten

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 09-14-2019, 06:05 PM:

It's Hollywood. There is sure to be a sequel or a re-boot.
Something just like it, only different.

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 09-17-2019, 07:24 AM:

Just Stay Dead
Variety

quote:
Former MoviePass Chairman Ted Farnsworth Trying to Buy Failing Subscription Company
By BRENT LANG Brent Lang
Brent Lang
Executive Editor of Film and Media
@https://twitter.com/BrentALang

Ted Farnsworth, the financier who helped set in motion MoviePass’s meteoric rise and precipitous fall, has submitted an offer to purchase the beleaguered subscription service and its parent company, Helios and Matheson Analytics Inc.

Financial terms of the offer were not disclosed, but Farnsworth, who served as Helios’ chairman and chief executive officer is also looking to buy MoviePass Films, a film production company that the company started in 2018, as well as Moviefone, the movie listing and information service it bought that same year.

The offer comes four days after Helios and Matheson announced it was shuttering the money-hemorrhaging service. Many subscribers had already fled, as the company experimented with different pricing models in a bid to survive. At its height the company boasted 3 million customers.

In order to avoid any conflicts of interest, Farnsworth said he had stepped down from his roles at the company and from his position on the board of directors. He did not reveal how he had put together his financing or the members of his investment group.

“I believe there is great unrealized value in MoviePass and we want to rebuild and make sure it reaches its full potential,” Farnsworth said in a statement. “I have always believed in the business model and the brand [former MoviePass CEO] Mitch Lowe and I built at MoviePass. There’s tremendous appetite for movie theater ticket subscription.”

Lowe and Farnsworth made headlines with an aggressive pricing model that they unveiled in 2017 after Helios and Matheson, a data company of little renown, bought a controlling stake in MoviePass. The pair announced that they were slashing MoviePass’s monthly fee from nearly $50 to $9.95, enabling moviegoers to see a movie-a-day for a month. That was less than the cost of a ticket in cities such as New York or Los Angeles, but Farnsworth and Lowe argued that the data they collected on customers would be so valuable they would be able to sell that to studios and turn a profit. They also hoped to win over theater owners, convincing them to cut a deal by proving that they could drive customers to their screens.

The plan didn’t work out and instead MoviePass burned through hundreds of millions of dollars before Helios and Matheson was eventually delisted from the Nasdaq. It is also being investigated for securities fraud by the New York Attorney General for securities fraud and faces several class action lawsuits.

It did help trigger a subscription revolution in the exhibition space. The country’s three largest theater chains, AMC, Regal, and Cinemark, all have unveiled subscription plans for customers as they looked for ways to boost attendance and compete with MoviePass.

Farnsworth, a Miami-based businessman, has an unorthodox resume. He has been involved in everything from energy drink ventures to psychic hotlines. Lowe was an executive at Netflix in the company’s early days.

“Despite the reams of pulp fiction that have been written about MoviePass, we know what went wrong along the way and the many things that went right, “ Farnsworth said in a statement. “After all, we built the fastest growing subscription business in the history of merchandising and numerous copycats are out there now trying to capitalize on our model in the theater industry.”

By the time that MoviePass closed down, its financial situation was dire.Helios and Matheson’s net loss more than doubled in 2018 to $329.3 million, according to its most recent financial filing.

Posted by Harold Hallikainen (Member # 5405) on 12-26-2019, 10:05 PM:

Read a year in review article somewhere that said people were using Moviepass to get into theaters to use the bathroom or to validate parking.

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 12-27-2019, 07:52 AM:

So now the studios are going to want a percentage of the toilet?

Posted by Shawn M. Martin (Member # 6762) on 12-27-2019, 10:54 AM:

There might be stories of them rising yet again from the ashes via, say, an emergency $100,000 loan from a Latvian tire company.