Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Lighting for poster cases

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 02-14-2018, 12:40 PM:

We are building some new poster cases in our lobby and I am hoping to make them "lower profile" due to space issues. Anybody had any experience with LED lights that come in "tape" form? They look pretty bright and there are a lot of them on the tape -- there are 300 LEDs in a 16-foot roll.

I'm just wondering if they'll put out adequate light to make the posters pop. We already tried rope lights and they didn't look very good at all.

Suggestions welcome! Here's a pic of what I'm looking at.

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 02-14-2018, 01:25 PM:

My poster cases are about as low-profile (and cheap) as you can get, though they aren't lit.

They are just a piece of plexiglass with hinges at the top that are screwed into the wall. There is a piece of doorstop at the bottom, also screwed to the wall, and a couple of storm window clips attached to the the doorstop to hold the plexiglass shut.

I stapled some of that kitchen drawer liner that you use to prevent your spoons from rattling to the wall behind the plexiglass so the posters won't sag.

Ultimately the parts list for each one consists of the plexiglass, two hinges, one piece of doorstop, two storm window clips and about six feet of drawer liner.

Edit: I just noticed that the lights you're looking at is the same thing that I put on one of my wife's sewing machines a couple of months back to add extra illumination under the arm. If it is indeed the same thing (though I only had two feet of it) then that's a really really bright and very harsh coloured light. I wasn't too impressed with it, actually, but my wife seems happy with the extra light so what do I know.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 02-14-2018, 02:32 PM:

These poster boxes are in our outer lobby and are visible from the street. They are basically a wood box with a hinged door on the front, but are only 2" deep so we need a low-profile light. They look OK unlit, but they would really stand out if they were lit, plus I plan to put a timer on them to make them stay lit after we close at night. The bar next door gets a lot of foot traffic so it would be good advertising, that's the main reason I want to light them up.

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 02-14-2018, 04:34 PM:

I wonder how much coverage of the poster you can get with lights less than two inches above them around the sides. I suppose it could be done but I think you'll need to do some fancy shading and direction-focusing to make anything other than a bright ring with a dark spot (the poster) in the middle. And I don't think you'll do that with a simple strip of led's though I'm certainly no lighting expert so there might be a way to do it that I'm not aware of.

Have you considered directional lights overhead or on the opposite wall focused on the posters, or maybe something like the lights over paintings in fancy museums?

Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 7758) on 02-14-2018, 05:11 PM:

My goodness, Mike, it looks like once you're done unwinding the light tape, you could load Super 8mm film onto that reel!

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 02-14-2018, 05:44 PM:

The LEDs will be behind the poster. There is a diffuser (1/8" white plexi) to spread the light out. Each roll of LEDs iw 16 feet long so we're just planning to spiral them inside the box behind the poster. I *think* it should work but we'll see, I guess. If not, we'll figure out someplace else to use them.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 02-14-2018, 08:34 PM:

I would experiment with a thick sheet of clear poly. Drill holes around the sides with LEDs inserted.Mayne 40-50.

Alternatively a $10 small recessed spotlight from Lowe's in the ceiling would illuminate it directly. (120v bulb.)

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 02-14-2018, 09:04 PM:

Mike - what do you mean with 'spiraling'?

Are you sure all your posters have white backs? Many of our posters are double sided (mirrored image). May be a local habit, but these obviously won't work backlit.

I guess you need to build a test-bed. These LED strips can be bought in different densities/brightness on ebay. You may need to try out different types. The strips can be cut and reconnected to give a full panel. That is a bit of work though.

Louis' idea is old fashioned, but worth considering, it get's the job done a lot cheaper and may work better. We usually have one poster hanging on our front window with a strong spot behind it. When we get a poster with white back, we try to light it from the back, but the printed paper will not let through much light. Front-lit will be much more effective. Backlit displays are usually printed on special sheets with special colors and need a lot of light to pop out. If they are facing day-lit areas, they will probably only pop-out at night.

- Carsten

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 02-14-2018, 10:15 PM:

Spiraling - meaning the LED strips will be laid out in a spiral pattern (concentric rectangles). The strips are bendable, so as to make the rectangle pattern.

We almost never get white-backed onesheets - - mainstream studio onesheets all have the image printed on the back, backwards, so it aligns precisely with the front image. So, backlighting makes them look really good IF the lights are bright enough. If they have white backs, they look washed-out.

We have a backlit box inside the lobby that has a pair or florescent tubes in it, but these new boxes are going next to a set of doors so they need to be more shallow, which is why I'm looking for a more low-profile lighting solution. I'm aware they won't show up much during the day but in the evening they will be attention-getting from the street.

Posted by Buck Wilson (Member # 5885) on 02-14-2018, 10:20 PM:

Are backlit poster cases really that rare? That's all I've known. I think it'll work. You may need a poster size piece of opaque white plexi behind the poster to help even the light but beyond that I don't see why it wouldn't work.

If fluorescent tubes work (all the poster cases I've seen) I don't see why not LED.

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 02-14-2018, 11:15 PM:

If the posters you get are like the ones that I get, the width is more-or-less constant but the length varies by two or three inches. So a lighted poster case would have to be long enough to hold the longest poster and you'll need something like a black strip to put in at the bottom to cover the light when a shorter one is installed.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-15-2018, 01:38 AM:

Mike, these led strip lights are really good and will work well for you. They don't get terribly hot, they are in a sleeve to make them waterproof and they don't get too hot but they are as bright as you can get on a 12V supply. Since they are for backlit posters, make sure to get the 6000K version.

In case the link breaks, they are: "LEDENET 5M Double Row 600LEDs SMD 5050 LED Flexible Strip Lighting DC 12V Cold Cool White Waterproof Outdoor Use"

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 02-15-2018, 02:33 AM:

I agree with Brad that you should definitely go for out-door strips, even if those LEDs are encased in a box. Once moisture creeps in, they will kill the ordinary non-outdoor LED strips.

Personally, I'd rather go for the 5000K (often sold as "neutral white) than the 6000K though, because 6000K is already a bit blueish, although for poster backlights the difference between 5000K and 6000K will probably be small.

Spiraling those LED strips out isn't going to be easy though. While it is easy to bend them around corners in a "vertical" direction compared to the plane of the LEDs, it's almost impossible to have them make a hard turn horizontally.
There are little addon-pieces available that allow you to make a 90-degree turn for example, but you can only cut the strips at certain, pre-marked intervals. Unfortunately, the click-on-type connectors are notorious for bad connections, if you chain a lot of them together, you're almost certain to run into problems. The alternative is soldered connections.

Also, when you put them directly behind the glass, hot-spotting could occur. You best place them further back into the box, to allow the light to diffuse before it hits the poster.

Alternatively, finding a diffuser that works and fits for your particular application is going to be a bit more complicated.

I think in your case, the most efficient way would be running some strips vertically and soldering the ends of each strip together with some small pieces of "12V wire".

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 02-15-2018, 02:34 AM:

They are flat, if you simply spiral them, most of the light is sent sideways off the panel, and the neighboring track blocks it. Don't think that'll work good, but, try.

I remember there are special strips with side emitting LEDs, but they are harder to get.

- Carsten

Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 02-15-2018, 05:15 AM:

Most of those tape lights let you cut them at certain spots. They can be reconnected by soldering the contacts together. You must have the tape flat against the "back wall" of your case firing the light forward.

As others have said, some kind of opaque "diffuser" needs to be in front of the lights. The idea somebody had for side installed LEDs inserted in holes around the perimeter is unlikely to work. You'd need a diffuser that is designed to put out a lower percentage of light near the edge vs the middle in order for it to look even.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-15-2018, 12:25 PM:

Mike, just make sure you make your poster cabinets deep enough to avoid hot spots and other uneven lighting issues. Diffuser films work only so well.

We're using LEDs more and more in sign cabinets. There is a variety of stick-like fixtures which can replace various kinds of fluorescent lamps in cabinets, even the high output variety used in signs. They cost more than a T12D/HO lamp, but save money on power costs, service, etc over the long run.

The LEDs in roll form are good to use in cabinets or lighted displays with unusual shapes like logos and individual channel letters. LEDs have all but replaced neon in channel letter signs that have trim-capped acrylic faces. There is still no credible LED substitute for exposed neon glass tubes, at least not for neon that is bent into letters or other creative shapes. LEDs are good for straight runs of border lighting though.

I hate what's happening to neon overall; it's disappearing completely in some cities and towns. And that's too bad because it has such a cool and unique look. Not many customers want to pay the extra cost for it. Lots of tube benders are getting old and not passing their skills along to younger people.

Not all LEDs are created equal either. The cheap stuff from unrecognizable brands in China can go dim overall in just a couple years and have individual lamps go bad pretty easy. Good quality LEDs should give you at least a good 7-10 years of use. We can sell a few different brands of "jumbotron" signs, but very much prefer Daktronics. It's an American company; they use much better quality LEDs than their rivals and the difference shows in their displays.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 02-15-2018, 01:39 PM:

These cabinets are about 3 inches deep. I was thinking about using 1/8" white plexiglass for the diffuser but I wonder if that's too thick for enough light to get through. We have an existing case inside the lobby that does have 1/8" plexi, but it has florescent lights in it.

Bobby, do you have a manufacturer/ part number for those stick-shape LED fixtures you mentioned? I do have 110v available to the location of the cabinets.

Regarding neon, I do love the neon look....the Roxy has 54 neon tubes (counting 24 that are inside the readerboards) and I wouldn't trade that look for anything. We use a company out of Billings to maintain the neon and they have had the same guy working for them for at least 25 years. I might check with them to see if they have anything available for what we're looking for.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-16-2018, 10:40 AM:

We buy most of the LED components and fixtures we use in sign cabinets and channel letters from Principal LED in San Angelo, TX. Their web site is www.p-led.com. They have lots of different products. This page for sign cabinets will have at least a couple or more items appropriate for poster cases. You can talk to their staff on the phone to discuss things in more detail.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 02-16-2018, 11:39 AM:

OK thanks - I think I'll check with our sign company people and see if they have any ideas that won't break the bank! [Smile]

Posted by Nathan McLaughlin (Member # 10057) on 02-16-2018, 11:46 AM:

Mike check out ( EnvironmentalLights.com )

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-16-2018, 01:07 PM:

Mike, what about installing 4 of those skinny fluorescent tubes, but using the LED retrofit lights that fit in them?

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 02-16-2018, 03:04 PM:

That would work too if I could find fixtures that don't get the bulbs too close to the poster.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-17-2018, 12:10 PM:

I use the GEMXRD-1 12v led module in the tetramax from ge These are little mutdules with 2 or 3 LED on them daisy chained togather with two wires about 6 " apart
They work well in many of our fixtures and we have used them in some poster cases with indirect mounting