Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Tell me about your revenue stream from commercials :-)

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Posted by Asbjorn Rossau (Member # 11006) on 09-21-2019, 07:06 AM:

Hello

I'm really looking forward to talking to some of you out there in the cinemas in the hope that some of you will reply.

The question is:
What can you tell me, and everybody else, about what kind of marketing show and technical setup you have at your cinema, region or country?

The reason why I ask is to get an overview of the commercial-content-type, the revenue of showing these and the process of getting it to the cinema screen.

-------------------------------------

I have worked at five different cinemas in Denmark. In Denmark, only two cinema ad agencies exist, DRF and Fs2.

My five workplaces:
1. Big IMAX Dome cinemas that did not show commercials before the movie

2. The biggest Danish cinema chain that has it's own ad agency (DRF) and distribution system. In total this ad agency sells and shows commercials in 40 cinemas. Their distribute commercials on DCP's. I think they have around 50% of sold tickets in Denmark. They focus on both local and national commercials, with about 50/50 split.

3. Medium-sized independent cinemas with 5 screens. They use the secondary ad agency (Fs2), used by roughly 77 cinemas in Denmark. The distribution is done by sending a video.mp4 commercial-reel to a windows computer running LiveConnect, connected to the projector with an HDMI cable. Cues for "Loop", "Play" and "PAUSE" are communicated between TMS and LiveConnect. They focus on both local and national commercials, with about 50/50 split, but the main revenue from local commercials.

4. A small cinema with 2 screens, that also uses Fs2. They have a lot of cultural events in and around the cinema, that they try to promote on the big screen, by creating a homemade slideshow, shown for 15 minutes while the audience walks into the cinema.

5. An even smaller cinema with only 1 screen. They create all their commercials themselves in a powerpoint show, converted to video, converted to DCP with openDCP. They update ones a month. Their main purpose to promote local business is to reward them as a sponsor of the community cinema.

Around 54 cinemas in Denmark sell and create their own commercial reels

Posted by Michael Putlack (Member # 6523) on 10-08-2019, 09:15 PM:

We're a three screen theatre and we sell our slideshow ad space and "video" ads that screen for up to two minutes after showtime. Last year we made just over $30,000 USD on these ads. Definitely worth your while if you're willing to put in the effort.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 10-10-2019, 05:24 PM:

There have been some dedicated advertising systems using generic computer hardware (already back in 35mm times, then using dedicated presentation projectors), but in general, all advertising in germany is now done in DCP format. That is, nationwide advertising.

We ourselves, in addition to DCP ad spots, have a rather long admission time window (about 30min), during which we loop a powerpoint presentation (actually running it second screen style live from PowerPoint). These a still slides, in part carrying our own announcements and upcoming events, but also local ads. We earn quite a bit of money with them (much more than with live video/DCP advertising), mainly because they can be created by local businesses with very little effort, and so the entry barrier is low - people come to our cinema, see these simple ads booked by their local co-businesses, and ask us how to get the same for their business. They would never consider inquiring for moving image/live video ads. We can also offer them at comparably low cost, as there is no booking agency involved, and our effort to emply them is minimal. Cashing the money is the largest part here.

- Carsten

Posted by Asbjorn Rossau (Member # 11006) on 10-11-2019, 04:48 AM:

Hey Michael Putlack and Carsten Kurz

This is really exciting to hear about these two good examples of DO_IT_YOURSELF ad-creation so that you guys are able to cash in a larger cunck of money, instead of having an expensive third-party-agency as the middleman.

Do you know any other Cinemas who does it themself as well?

/Asbjørn

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 10-11-2019, 07:12 AM:

I work with quite a few independents in smaller towns that do their own ads. Some use PP on a PC into DVI or HDMI. A few make DCPs - one bought Dolby Cineasset and makes them up on a Mac, the others use DCP-o-matic or similar freeware.
I don't know what their revenue is like, must be worthwhile to justify investing in a dedicated decent Mac and Cineasset.
They all include some sort of "Want your ad here? Contact us" slide or clip in the preshow.
Chains pretty much as described. Cineplex has a media group that makes preshows, they run on a dedicated PC at each screen through alternative content inputs. Preshows are classified for film ratings, upload preshows weekly via internet, and the preshow system pulls schedules and ratings from the boxoffice system... generally working fine with no site staff involvement. Landmark Canada does something much the same. Quebec is, as always, different. I don't know of a PQ chain that does what Cineplex or Landmark do but independents use PowerPoint or DCP for self-generated preshows and ads.

Posted by Rick Cohen (Member # 6140) on 10-11-2019, 03:48 PM:

We began offering on-screen advertising in 2018. We are a seasonal business, being an outdoor drive-in, so all of our contracts cover all five screens for the full season, which for us runs April through November. We limit the on-screen advertising to 3 minutes, and offer a choice of either a 15 second commercial for $2,000 for the full season, or a 30 second commercial for $3,000 for the full season.

Our advertisers include a car dealership, a pizza shop, a health care insurance provider, a home nursing provider, a regional bank, a BBQ chicken take-out place, and a marina restaurant.

All of our advertisers pay for the full season upfront at the beginning of the season. Once they provide the commercial, we do the DCP conversion using DCP-o-matic, and insert the file into our nightly program. Minimal effort from start to finish. We choose mostly local, family oriented businesses. Most of our advertisers from 2018 renewed for 2019, so we only needed to recruit two new advertisers, which we already had a waiting list for. We could probably increase the number of ads, but we feel 3 minutes is enough, and any additional ads would upset the audience, and dilute the value of the other ads. Over the last two years since we began showing ads, we haven't had any complaints or pushback from patrons.

Posted by Sarah Treichel (Member # 10857) on 10-16-2019, 12:27 AM:

This is a great topic! We're thinking of doing this for local businesses, basically just slides because you don't have to worry about sound levels and they don't violate any MLAs. We have no idea how much to charge for this. Would anyone who is doing slide shows like to share their pricing?

Posted by Asbjorn Rossau (Member # 11006) on 10-17-2019, 04:36 AM:

Hey Sarah

I think the prices used by Rick Cohen "15 second commercial for $2,000 for the full season, or a 30 second commercial for $3,000 for the full season" would be a good starting point. After testing this price point for a while you will get a feel for the sensitivity among your potential local advertisers and then adjust accordingly.

What is MLA?

----

Hey Dave

A really interesting overall picture of Canadas various setups. Thanks for sharing.

Coming from Europa I don't understand what you mean by Quebec being different when speaking about Cinema Business. Are there some specific cultural differences or different approaches to how they structure the composition of pre-shows?

The reason why I'm asking is that I'm building an online platform for creating pre-show content in DCP format, and my wish is to make it as useful for as many cinemas worldwide. So inputs are appreciated:-)

Best regards
Asbjørn

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 10-17-2019, 05:05 AM:

We're taking about 50US$ per month for a 15s slide during our admission, single screen, single show per day. Usually, clients book 6 months or a year ahead.
That is comparably low, but we do have many bookings and it 'ads up'. Not much work involved, we get these slides in power point or common image formats by mail, do a quick visual check, copy/paste them into the show, and that's it. Some clients want more screen time, so they book two adjacent slides.

When we play something during the preshow block, that is, mixed with ads or trailers, it goes up to e.g. 200US$ per month.

- Carsten

Posted by Brent Barnhart (Member # 10321) on 10-17-2019, 08:53 AM:

MLA = Master License Agreement
Studio contracts.

Posted by Geoff Jones (Member # 3668) on 10-21-2019, 09:30 AM:

I'm curious to know if the widespread adoption of reserved seating advertisers will lead to reduced revenues for pre-show ads.

I used to get to the theater early to be sure I got the seat I wanted. Now that my seat is reserved ahead of time, I try to show up a minute or two before the show starts so that I don't have to sit through the ads.

If enough people start doing this, won't advertisers realize their ads aren't being seen and spend their dollars somewhere else?

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 10-21-2019, 02:29 PM:

Why do you think they added a convenience charge or seat-reservation charge to your ticket?*

Another trick: Advertisements now simply start at the officially indicated time the show starts or just a handful of minutes before.

* Your theater may be the exception.

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 10-21-2019, 03:56 PM:

It hasn't happened too often but in the past few years I have had a few occasions where people arrive about 20 minutes after the show has started. When I sell them their tickets I say, "The show actually started twenty minutes ago." They say, "But what time did the movie start?" When I say "Twenty minutes ago" they're surprised.

I guess they're used to going to theatres where there's twenty minutes of advertising before the start of the show.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 10-21-2019, 05:00 PM:

Our start time for Fri & Sat has traditionally been 7:00 and 9:00, but since shows are getting longer, most recent weeks we've been doing one show at 7:30. We get people showing up at 8:05 saying "It probably hasn't started yet, right?" And I say it started at 7:30, and they say "but you probably have a half hour of previews, right? And I say we ran four previews for a total of 10 minutes.

Posted by Asbjorn Rossau (Member # 11006) on 10-22-2019, 01:08 AM:

I sense that it is very normal among the smaller and medium-sized Cinemas in the states, to not show advertisements at all.
Is this common?

Do any of you create and display promotion on the big screen, regarding your in-house events?

In Denmark almost everybody have advertisment and promotion for local events, for about 12 minutes.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 10-22-2019, 12:51 PM:

It's going to vary by owner. Most if not all of the chain cinemas show pre-movie ads, and I would guesstimate that at least half (or more) of the smaller companies do as well.

I'd guess that the smaller the company, the more likely that they don't show ads at all, or if they do, they are produced in-house.

We're a small company, but we do show ads that are produced by the ad company.

Posted by James Wyrembelski (Member # 9037) on 10-22-2019, 07:28 PM:

We are also small as well. I go through an ad agency that takes care of the work for me. They can do much more of a professional job than I could.

Posted by Asbjorn Rossau (Member # 11006) on 10-23-2019, 04:45 AM:

Hey James

Interesting! How is the content delivered:

- On Harddrive as DCP
- Via a dedicated DCP media server controlled by Pecan Pie
- or from a separate projector and PC

What revenue do you get out of it at the end of the day?

And what initial expenses did your setup require that you had to pay upfront?

Posted by Sarah Treichel (Member # 10857) on 11-03-2019, 10:57 PM:

For those who work with Screen Vision Media or someone similar, do they take care of getting permissions from distributors? I ask because some licensing agreements state that screen advertising must be shown before the lights go down or before the movie's scheduled start time, but I think Screen Vision ads play when the lights go down. Some contracts say you have to tell them about any rolling stock you intend to show and at least one expressly prohibits anything but soundless slides, unless permission is obtained from the distributor beforehand. Do your agencies take care of that for you?

Posted by Asbjorn Rossau (Member # 11006) on 11-13-2019, 03:46 AM:

In Denmark, there are no restrictions on what kind of self-made-self-promoting-ads you show on the screen, alongside the regular ad-reel.
It sounds like interesting reading, could you share these licensing agreements?

Posted by Justin DEntremont (Member # 10541) on 11-21-2019, 02:41 PM:

So we're a 3 screen independant.

We run a loop for 15min prior to showtime. This runs off a standard off the shelf 10 year old $125 Windows computer that's on a shelf in the rack, and is fed into the projector via HDMI or DVI. The playback server has a 15min "black" sequence at the start of each playlist, which switches to the signage computer input when it starts, and back to the playback server after the 15min are up. These computers all run a digital signage software called Rise Vision. While it has a whole lot of functionality that we don't use (templates, social media widgets etc), under the hood it's a system that shows HTML webpages, and allows you to schedule and target them for certain times and certain screens.

We have it setup with 2 parts:
1. We have built a number of in-house custom coded HTML pages that interface with Veezi, our POS system, to get real-time data about what is going on in the theatre (what is playing next on this screen, how many tickets left for this show, how long until it starts, what else is also playing on other screens, what movies are coming soon etc etc). There's 3 different information pages like this.

2. A "Google Slides" presentation embedded as an HTML page, with still slides. This allows us to update the slides instantly, from anywhere. We do up the graphics, save as a Jpg, and just drop that into the Google Slides show.

For approx. $35/week, we sell blocks of 6 slides, which show for 5 seconds each. It's up to the advertiser to decide if they want a single slide shown for 30sec, or 6x5 sec. We do all the graphic design in house.

Here's what it looks like when all put together (you will have to "zoom out" in your browser if your screen is less then 1080p): http://preview.risevision.com/?type=schedule&id=61ff8549-f384-4834-a65c-bd093a09b1e0&_ga=2.65064494.1629043772.1574367300-1424474083.1570567211&showui=false

If anyone is interested using RiseVision software or using our webpages which live update with data from Veezi don't be shy to reach out, be glad to help.

Posted by Asbjorn Rossau (Member # 11006) on 11-25-2019, 06:03 AM:

Hey Justin

How much do you pay RiseVision per month for the software?

Could you do the integration to the playback server yourself?

Best regards
Asbjorn

Posted by Justin DEntremont (Member # 10541) on 11-26-2019, 12:16 AM:

Currently Rise Vision is free, though starting December 31st, 2019 they're removing 95% of the functionality from the free version. The paid version is $10/month per screen. I believe I may have a way to continue using it for free (in a slightly different manner), but we shall see.

You can't run it directly on the playback server, you require another computer, but this doean't have to be anything fancy at all. A 10 year old computer from eBay etc. is more then enough. I'm currently using older model Lenovo Thinkcenter desktops which I got off eBay for about $100 each.

These Lenovo computers connect directly to the DVI input's on the projector using a DVI cable, or DisplayPort to DVI adapter. I will note, these computers do require an internet connection to function, but this isn't a problem for us as there is internet available on a switch in each projection booth.

On the playback server, each playlist begins with (after turning on the bulb etc) a 15min "black" placeholder. At the start of this clip, commands are sent to the projector to switch to the DVI input, and the sound system to switch to the non-sync input connected to this computer.

Once the 15min black clip is done, the commnads are sent to switch the projector and sound system back to the playback server input.

See image below for an example playlist.

I'm not sure what kind of playback server you have (we have Doremi servers), but we have done the entire integration (Adding the new automation commands etc) ourselves, so it's definitely doable if you're good with computers.

Posted by Asbjorn Rossau (Member # 11006) on 11-26-2019, 12:28 AM:

Thanks :-)
A quiet simple and smart way to execute.
Please keep us posted if the free version of Rise Vision is still durable after the strip down next year.
Thanks