Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: "Curiosity killed the cat....

This is topic "Curiosity killed the cat.... in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Gracia L. Babbidge (Member # 582) on 08-29-2000, 08:33 AM:

...and information brought it back"

And there is something that I am curious about. (Just my quirky nature, it can't be helped!)

I know that I am not the only woman that is resisterd with, and has posted to these forums. What I'm wondering though, is just how outnumbered women are in this line of work?
The only other projectionists that work in the booth I work in are men. The company I work for is not huge, and from what I've been able to dig up, it seems that female projectionist to male projectionist ratio is 1:3...
And it's not as though I have a problem working with so many men, I just can't help but wonder at such things...

~GLB

Posted by Evans A Criswell (Member # 381) on 08-29-2000, 09:10 AM:

In my area, the female/male ratio for people running the projectors seems to be roughly even, and there are excellent projectionists and booth managers from both genders. As far as general managers go, we have 4 men and 2 women in our 6 theatres. Two months ago, it was 5 men and 1 woman. The Regal locations have had the same managers for a long time, and the Carmike locations change managers a lot. The Carmike 8 in Decatur had 9 managers (I think) in a 2.5 year period. Some were men and some were women.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 08-29-2000, 01:16 PM:

Gracia - you are not alone! Times are a-changin'.

Women scientists, technicians, engineers and managers comprise about 50% of the people working on research and development of new motion-picture films at Kodak. A woman leads the motion-picture research and development group, and several of the project teams are led by women.

One of the engineers working on new motion-picture products is Megan Weiner:
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/corp/jobs/profile3.shtml

Kodak encourages diversity from the "top down":
http://www.kodak.com/country/US/en/corp/pressReleases/pr20000406-04.shtml http://www.kodak.com/country/US/en/corp/pressReleases/pr20000105-01.shtml

Kodak also supports women filmmakers:
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/stars/ccas.shtml

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

Posted by Lance C. McFetridge (Member # 95) on 08-29-2000, 02:43 PM:

We have 4 part time projectionist, two men, two women. Actually the women pay a little more attention to certain details then the guys do.
lance

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-29-2000, 03:17 PM:

I still say this is a bit of a prejudiced topic as gender really doesn't matter in relation to performance, but a month ago we had this discussion titled "Boys and their toys" on the Film Handler's Forum which you might want to read.

Posted by Rachel Gilardi (Member # 1016) on 03-19-2003, 02:43 AM:

Bringing up a dead topic...

My theater has 3 managers, I'm the only girl...Infact I'm the only girl manager that my theater has ever had!!! And they've gone through at least 7 or 8 since they opened 4 years ago.

I must have filled their quota. [Smile]

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 03-19-2003, 02:54 AM:

Out of 3 booth staff, we have one girl. I've only ever worked with 2 girls during my 7 years or so in the booth. Our theater employs maybe 5 girls altogether. Maybe that has something to do with our manager... not sure. Maybe girls just don't apply.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 03-19-2003, 03:16 AM:

I have seen some very good female projectionists.....and some crappy ones, too. Same for the males.

When it comes to hiring, I don't think gender should be an issue.

[ 03-19-2003, 02:32 PM: Message edited by: Paul G. Thompson ]

Posted by Patrick McDonough (Member # 1363) on 03-19-2003, 08:01 AM:

Out of our booths we have only tw0 projectionists, even on our concesion staff we have only two females, woman just don't apply here to often.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 03-19-2003, 09:14 AM:

Agreed that gender shouldn't make a difference in employment matters--either someone can do the job or not, and any employment decision should be based on that fact alone. I've known a number of female operators and they are all at least as good as their male counterparts, and are often more detail-oriented.

I once saw a statistic that said that only about 1% of film projectionists in the US are female. I can only guess that this may be the result of the fact that fewer women than men show an interest in mechanics and electronics, which is probably a cultural issue, as males often receive more encouragement to study math and science in school. There may be a physical issue, too, as the job often involves lifting heavy reels or platter-loads of film and men (in general) tend to be stronger.

I once trained someone who learned very quickly and was very good at running a manual booth with heavy 6000' reels, but she preferred to deal with customers at the concession stand (where she was also great).

Posted by Daniel Burns (Member # 1549) on 03-19-2003, 01:20 PM:

I don't care what gender you are as long you are tall enough to work off the top platter without a step ladder.

Posted by Rachel Gilardi (Member # 1016) on 03-19-2003, 01:24 PM:

I don't think anyway can work off our top 5-Deck platter unless you are over 7' tall. I can hardly reach it when I put my arm up, and I'm not short!

Actually, I'm taller then both of my male counterparts at 5'7".

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 03-19-2003, 01:35 PM:

I can't work off the bottom deck of most platter systems... I'm too tall. I have to get down on my knees. [Frown]

As for female projectionists -- I've only known one.

Posted by Daniel Burns (Member # 1549) on 03-19-2003, 01:46 PM:

I guess I should have said a standard three deck system. I don't think my staff has anyone under 6 ft. We had a female projectionist about three months ago, and she kept things cleaner than all the guys put together, and she was tall too.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 03-19-2003, 02:01 PM:

There's a lot more than there used to be. I remember in the "old days" of carbon arc and 20-minute reels, I only knew of two girl projectionists between KY and WV.

In some old projection manual from the silent days that I have, there's a picture of a female projectionist in coveralls.

Posted by Gerard S. Cohen (Member # 994) on 03-19-2003, 02:30 PM:

Not to quibble, but I prefer we refer to our female colleagues as "women" rather rhan "girls", since calling adults by child names has been, and continues to be, demeaning in workplace situations. [Wink]

Posted by William Leland III (Member # 1400) on 03-19-2003, 03:40 PM:

I have worked with 2 females in projection. They did a good job. I've trained atleast 3, but they didn't like it.

At every theatre I have worked for there have been more women managers than men. The Regal I worked for had one male GM and 4 ass. managers and at Palmetto Grand we had a female GM and 2 female ass.managers and 2 men ass.managers. I'd say on an average women managers out number the men, for the places i've worked.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 03-19-2003, 08:52 PM:

What's all this about CATS???

Anyway, I just thought I'd chime in and say that currently all of our projectionists -- except one -- women people. Most are great and a few of them are horrible.

<muckraking>Can we get rid of the teaser title?</muckraking>

Posted by Rachel Gilardi (Member # 1016) on 03-19-2003, 10:11 PM:

This topic was made in 2000, it has nothing to do with Daryl or Adams cat companions. [Smile]

I just brought it back to life because I thought it was interesting.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 03-19-2003, 10:39 PM:

Manny's the one with the cat the comes to his window nightly, not I! I'm just the poor little messenger -- they're picking on me 'cause I'm the youngest. [Wink]

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 03-19-2003, 10:45 PM:

quote:
I prefer we refer to our female colleagues as "women" rather rhan "girls",

Suit yourself, but there's no condescention on my part calling anyone "girl". Gal, maybe, but I don't see what's demeaning about "girl"? Maybe you're thinking of a "little girl", and not a "big girl".
[Smile]

But, it's the same as if I'd call a man a guy. [Confused]

Posted by Gerard S. Cohen (Member # 994) on 03-20-2003, 09:23 AM:

Refering to a man as "boy" has been a weapon of aparteid in Africa and segregation in the US. Denying a woman of her mature
personhood by calling her "girl", to my mind, denegrates all females, whether our mothers, wives, sisters, daughters, colleagues or strangers.

[ 03-20-2003, 11:23 AM: Message edited by: Gerard S. Cohen ]

Posted by Rachel Gilardi (Member # 1016) on 03-20-2003, 12:55 PM:

I personally do not mind being called a girl, but that’s just preference.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 03-20-2003, 07:52 PM:

quote:
Refering to a man as "boy" has been a weapon

You're right, Gerard. I'm sorry, I didn't draw a proper analogy; I thought about that after I posted.

I do maintain, however, that "girl" isn't normally used as a derogatory epithet. In fact, I believe many women might find it flattering - for just the reason you mentioned: agelessness.

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 03-20-2003, 08:14 PM:

You are a naughty boy, Tim!

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 03-20-2003, 09:06 PM:

[Embarrassed]

I'm so ashamed!

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 03-20-2003, 09:29 PM:

Don't be ashamed. Tim!

Me thinks too many people are overly "political correct" and it's getting way out of hand. They need to get a grip on the realities of life and other and all cultures.

I don't think there is a derogatory "label" for males or females...even things like male prostitute or hooker or whatever. I mean, life may not be pretty sometimes, but it is a reality.

I am NOT suggesting that those terms are interchangeable with the colloquial terms for guys and girls, but I think it gets a bit ridiculous when we become overly sensitive to some of the more common terms.

>>> Phil

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 03-21-2003, 04:00 AM:

Maybe we should agree on common terms for male and female workers. My suggestion would be: Guys and Dolls.

Posted by Gunnar Johansson (Member # 1661) on 03-21-2003, 05:05 AM:

What´s wrong with women and children [Smile]

At my place we´re a group of 7 people at the moment, with two women, and everybody does all the work. One of the best things about us is that we have sort of a hive-mind, everybody usually knows what needs to bo done. I´m just the guy responsible. On the other hand we also do concert rigging and rent sound- and lightequipment. But we´re not to bad considering that the technical university has about 25% women overall.

//Gunnar

Posted by Jon Bartow (Member # 241) on 03-21-2003, 09:05 AM:

Ok we've discussed female/male projectionists/operators. How many non-male Technicians?

Posted by Patrick McDonough (Member # 1363) on 03-21-2003, 09:11 AM:

So whats the differance between projectionist and operator. [Razz]

Posted by Gerard S. Cohen (Member # 994) on 03-21-2003, 09:44 AM:

My point is that the words we use influence the way we think, and our thoughts influence our actions. We grow up with language, and seldom think of the connection.

James Baldwin, experiencing a lifetime of insults, titled his
book "Black Boy," forcing the reader to reflect. Similarly,
Kinky Friedman called his band "Kinky Friedman and His Texas Jew-boys," forcing music lovers to confront a most insulting term
perhaps never before seen in print.

Do we hire boys and girls to run our theatres, or men and women?
Isn't there a connection between how we speak of them, how we
think of them, and how we treat them? Do we treat them as children, giving a weekly allowance, or as men and women earning
their pay? If we call our employees "boys" and "girls", why should we expect them to behave as adults?

Don't we speak of a girl's school, but of a women's college?
I suggest we reserve the terms "boy" and "girl" for those who have not reached puberty. Do we have girls or women in our military academies?

We better consider language before we go abroad. A French woman
if married, or of matronly status, would be offended if called
"madamoiselle,", and a girl would not look kindly at being called
"madam." Language usage varies from culture to culture, which is why it is essential we study the languages that other people think in and dream in to understand them.

A good beginning book in general semantics, highly readable and fun, is Hayakawa's "Language in Thought and Action." And for pictures of boys and girls sent to perform the work of men and women, see the photographs of Lewis Hine. Or for poetry buffs, I suggest "Songs of Innocence and of Experience" of William Blake.

Posted by Pete Wolla (Member # 1581) on 03-21-2003, 08:04 PM:

of the six of us that run the projector one is a lady and she does the scheduling of work days. she trained me too . but i have learned a lot here .

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 03-21-2003, 08:27 PM:

quote:
Do we hire boys and girls to run our theatres, or men and women?

Gerard:

In principle I agree with everything you've said and my intention isn't to disagree with you. Again: I agree with you.

However, based on what we're typically paying for these services, I'd have to say that, in general, this industry is in the practice of hiring boys and girls and this is part of the problem.

I've been saying for years now that we need to go out and hire more adult labor and pay them as such....only then can we expect more from them in terms of better presentation and general work ethic. There are exceptions but, as the saying goes, "kids is kids."

Then again, maybe I'm just speaking for myself.

Posted by Gerard S. Cohen (Member # 994) on 03-21-2003, 09:55 PM:

Manny,

I agree we need to hire more adults at livable wages to upgrade the standards of exhibition.

In NYC where I worked IATSE, a candidate had to be trained in projection school or by a mentor, vouched for by his mentor, be 21 years of age and a citizen of good character and clean police record, pass a writen exam plus performance exams in electrical wiring, safety, splicing and projection, and before swearing in pay a non-refundable initiation fee of $500 (later $1,000.)

Projectionists usually worked beyond retirement age at this vocational career, renting or buying a home and sending their children through schooling, often college, and receiving a union pension and SS wwhen they had enough. Seniority offered a choice of better positions, and most theatre patrons could not remember ever having had a show cancelled.

There were long periods in the US when boys worked in coal mines, and girls in cotton mills and factories from the ages of six or seven, instead of attending school. Fortunately, child labor laws, championed by labor unions, put a stop to that.
Maybe we ought to force the exhbition industry to observe higher minimum age and higher qualifications and training, with realistic livable wages.