This is topic Film-Tech's Friendly Browser & Browsers That Should Be Friendly! in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by Andrew McCrea (Member # 674) on 01-27-2001, 06:31 PM:
HEY!
I just wanted to know when Film-Tech was going to be friendly to Internet Explorer? I personnally hate Netscape so I hope it will be Internet Explorer friendly soon (if ever)!Andrew McCrea
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-27-2001, 06:57 PM:
Nope. IE is a joke and has many internal problems with it. ANY internet forum has various issued associated with it when viewed on an IE browser. In 2 years you are the only one who has complained, so all of the extra coding I have added to produce new features on the forum can't be that bad.
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 01-27-2001, 07:05 PM:
[av=m]ALL web pages should be designed with both Netscape and IE in mind. If you have a page that does all sorts of flashy DHTML crap in IE, then you must design a separate page for Netscape users since Netscape doen't do well with DHTML. The payoff for IE users getting to see flashy DHTML isn't big enough to do that. If your page looks good in Netscape, chances are that it will look good in IE as well. I have looked at Film-Tech using IE and I hate how big it makes the fonts (Microsoft assumes people like big text, I guess) otherwise everything else is fine.
Oh... and if your web page doesn't have 40 animated lopping GIF's, 27 pop-up windows and at least 3 MIDI's playing at one time, your page is no good.
[ 03-04-2004, 07:42 PM: Message edited by: Joe Redifer ]
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 01-27-2001, 07:16 PM:
I use IE 5.0 on my iMac. I have very few problems with this forum. What few I do have are solved by refreshing the page most of the time.The only thing that "bugs" me is that when you are cliking the "next newest topic" link and you get to the top of the list, the pop-up menu that lets you jump to the next forum doesn't work. There are no choices in the menu. It's been this way for a while, now.
It's not an IE problem, per se because I use IE on a windows laptop, too. It doesn't have that problem.
If you don't like the size or font of your browser's default display, why don't you change it? It's under EDIT>PREFERENCES... Then chose the "Language/Font" option and change the settings. I have no problem with my fonts. They all default to 96dpi, instead of the usual Mac 72dpi. Maybe that's your problem?
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-27-2001, 07:19 PM:
Must be a Mac thing with IE, Randy. The forum viewed with IE works fine on Windows based operating systems, I just looked. That refresh issue can never be corrected with IE though.Anyway, I can't possibly keep up with all the various browsers and operating systems. If the site works properly with Netscape on Windows, there is a 99+% chance that it will display adequatly on other systems and browsers.
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 01-27-2001, 07:20 PM:
I have no problems whatsoever using IE on a Mac. I am just talking when I look at the forum from a Windows 2000 PC. I don't care enough about Windows to change anything
Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 01-27-2001, 07:22 PM:
I only look at the forum in IE5.5 because it is the best browser. Netscape six isn't even complete yet, it is slower and when you need a plug-in you have to go and get it, where as Microsoft (I hate them too) just downloads it for you. Hey I don't want to know how this damn machine works, I just want it to work!I might not like it, but Microsoft won the browser war just like George W. won the white house. Get over it! Something new will come along and we will all go that way.
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 01-27-2001, 07:26 PM:
I agree that Netscape 6 sucks major ass. I say avoid it at all costs! Use Netscape 4.7x and you will be fine, however.MicroSoft IE for Mac OS X is the best IE yet, by far.
Hmmmm... it looks as if I am living in this thread. Maybe I should go away for awhile =D
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 01-27-2001, 10:18 PM:
Netscape 6 is a piece of junk. Mozilla shows some promise, however, but it's still very much in beta and seems pretty slow to me.
My own take on things is this: web pages should be coded to the W3C http://www.w3.org specs. Period. The browser is responsible for interpreting the code. If the code is valid, then it should render properly. Sure, some browsers are horribly broken and some implement features that others don't, but it's hard to go totally wrong if you follow the HTML specs and don't try to implement any of the "bleeding edge" features.
Further, web sites should be at least usable without the need for Java, Javascript, Flash, or any other plug-in software. That's not to say that these things don't serve a purpose, but rather that the site should still be usable without them, if not as pretty or slick. Also, low-bandwidth connections should be considered, as such users often turn off auto-downloading of images, etc.
Personally, I use Lynx http://lynx.browser.org/ most of the time. It's a text-only browser that is super-fast; everyone used it circa 1994/95, but now not many still do. Even on this DSL connection, I can get information several times faster with Lynx than with anything else. When I want to look at pictures or have to deal with sites that don't work in Lynx (damn them!), I use Netscape 4.7something, which works fine. I normally use Solaris and, while there _is_ a version of MSIE for Solaris, I've never managed to get it to work (not that I've tried very hard, though).
I really don't like MSIE myself, and won't use it even on a Win32 machine. I admit, though, that this is mostly for philosophical reasons. I can totally understand that it might well be the best available browser software, but I won't use it because I don't like the whole idea of the browser being inextricably linked to the OS and I have "issues" with Mr. Bill's unethical business practices.
Not that I like Netscape, either. They're the company that started the whole "this page is Netscape-enhanced!" thing several years ago and introduced a bunch of proprietary non-standard HTML tags that did cool things but which didn't conform to the spec and were a major threat to the whole idea of the web as being a platform-independent mechanism for distributing information.
Sorry for the rant...
Posted by Evans A Criswell (Member # 381) on 01-27-2001, 11:08 PM:
I use IE 5.5 and have no problems. I'm in the habit of hitting Shift-Reload when I think the page I'm viewing may be out-of-date anyway. Don't get me wrong, I used Netscape for a very long time. I switched to it in early 1995 when it offered more features (like background images instead of a white background!) than NCSA Mosaic. I switched to IE on PCs in 1997 or so when a lot of sites would not work with Netscape at that time. On UNIX systems, I still use Netscape, though!Evans
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 01-28-2001, 12:10 AM:
Well, IMHO, those people who are not using windows and who want to encourage cross-platform compatibility would then try to encourage a certain company to branch out and begin writing good software for other operating systems, right?Those non-windows users would therefore be doing this by using IE, and other programs like Office Mac. Right?
Posted by Martin Frandsen (Member # 74) on 01-28-2001, 11:27 AM:
Why is it not possibel to paste-in text etc. when i am writing a message? I get an error instead? Btw i use IE. 
------------------
Martin Frandsen
Film crazy!, Big 70mm fan!
Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 01-28-2001, 12:44 PM:
Because Brad Miller discovered he could disable that function. In his effort to be all powerfull and with his hatred of IE he went ahead and disabled it. For the most part you can get by with the commands in the Edit fuction on your tool bar.
Posted by Martin Frandsen (Member # 74) on 01-28-2001, 01:05 PM:
Ohhhhh.. 
, yes i understand Brad does not want us to steal the pictures from the site with out asking, i have no problem with that,....but i wanted to post a message and put in a link into my message, but was told the function was disable. ------------------
Martin Frandsen
Film crazy!, Big 70mm fan!
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 01-28-2001, 01:58 PM:
Hmmm... I can paste-in text to my message window. And I can copy any picture I want. I know in windows, some sites won't allow copying of pics. At least not directly... I was on one site that wouldn't let me do it. I figured out a way, though. That same site was easy to grab pics on the Mac, though.
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 01-28-2001, 05:46 PM:
On the Mac it is as simple as dragging and dropping any picture from any web page from the browser to the desktop. You then own the picture! This works in IE and in Netscape. In HTML you can disable the right mouse button, but since the Mac only has one mouse button (why would anyone need more?) that tag doesn't work. When I use a PC I only use the left button anyway.
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 01-28-2001, 07:02 PM:
Yeah, what's with that two button thing anyway?I've got about 80 click possibilities with my mouse right now, that I can think up off the top of my head...
Click, Half-click, Double Click, Click and a Half, Triple Click... then you multiply by the key modifiers if CMD, OPT, CTL and SHIFT.
(2^4) * 5 = 80, right?
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-28-2001, 09:02 PM:
Ian, it's not a matter of being "all powerful" and I really don't appreciate the comment as if I am some form of web-Hitler. The bottom line is I am tired of dealing with complaints from people using IE and that's that. 99% of complaints are an issue with the IE browser, not coding with the site. If you don't want to use Netscape, then fine don't...I've no problem with that. But don't come whining to me because you can't view the latest topic or you are constantly having to refresh your browser or you cannot read a certain text because IE doesn't support it or you cannot nagivate because of IE's continuing problems with sizing or because of a cookie incompatibility or pictures won't download or this or that and blah, blah, blah and whine, whine, whine. If you desire to use IE, then please use it quietly. If I was truly worried about being "all powerful" I would simply insert a very quick bit of coding that would redirect everyone using an IE browser to a screen that said "Using IE eh? Get Netscape or no Film-Tech for you!"Martin, if you want to "steal" images from the site, just use Netscape. The resolution will be higher anyway.
Posted by Rachel Carter (Member # 693) on 01-28-2001, 11:02 PM:
IMO, I used to use IE and it worked fine...I don't think having to refresh the screen every once in a while is such a bad thing, I always do it anyway.I can't amagine how hard it is to keep this page up (I know I couldn't do it) so being me, I'm not one to complain. I'd take the time to thank Brad for giving us all a place to chat about our "theaters" instead of taking the time to complain that everything is not perfect.
But thats just my opinion....
------------------
"Blood is thicker then blondes" - From the movie, Save the last Dance.
FUNNY!!!!!
Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 01-29-2001, 12:20 AM:
I've never had any of the "need to often refresh with IE" problem. Even after I post & do the click here, I've got the new page.
It may be that the IE-refreshers can adjust the settings in Tools->Internet Options->General to get rid of the problem.
BTW: I've most often had problems with Netscape not loading newer versions of pages. That coupled with Netscape's weird failure to follow the standards, & orphaning their old proprietary "features" with new versions, has made me want to not fool with it ever again.
[ 03-04-2004, 02:56 PM: Message edited by: Joe Redifer ]
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 01-29-2001, 01:26 AM:
No, I don't have problems often, mind you. Sometimes the download of a page seems to "hang" for a lot longer than it should. Other times the page comes out all catty-wompass and half of it doesn''t appear. It's pretty infrequent and WHEN it does, a refresh fixes it almost all of the time.The ONLY thing that's continuous is that "Hop-To" pop-up doohickey. Even then it's nothing more than a MINOR pain in the arse.
As much as I see Brad posting messages in the front page of this site that say, "Servers running slow", I STILL think this site loads faster than most... even other UBB sites!
Sometimes, I don't agree with Brad's choices of the way things are done. (For instance, not letting people access pages directly makes it too hard for me to write a "Sherlock" plug-in for this site.) Even then, I understand WHY it's been done, even if I might have done it another way.
When it comes out in the wash, it's Brad's dod-gamm site and he can do it the way he wants. This is AMERICA, for cripes-sake! Besides, HE's paying for it!!
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-29-2001, 02:44 AM:
Randy, F.Y.I. The typical page loading problems are due quite honestly to crappy servers with poor connections. The most common problem of a hanging forum page however is usually due to a picture file that has been linked from a non-Film-Tech server by a member. (This is why I try and pull those pictures and move them to the Film-Tech servers as soon as possible...but the servers hosting the site still aren't anything to boast about.) I have bounced this site off of more hosting companies than I care to remember (had to move it 3 times in the last month or so) to get around bandwidth and CPU usage issues. I don't want to announce anything yet, but if all goes well such issues of "hanging pages", etc" will disappear in a couple of months. Issues with IE however, will not change. From the posts above, I think that most people above are already in the habit of reloading the pages and such though.
William,
I know of no way to "force" IE to always check pages for new content, but on Netscape this is quite easy. Click:
edit/preferences/advanced/cache
and then select "document in cache is compared to document on network every time" and you will never have to use the reload button ever again.
(I have heard there is a java based code that will force the refresh of every page it is coded into on the IE browser. Believe me, if I can make it work, I will install it into the forum pages to eliminate these problems with IE.)
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 01-29-2001, 11:42 AM:
Sucking the pictures off others servers is cool! I only have 20 MB of space at mac.com and I have a lot of pictures on it. (I use it to keep in touch with family by sending them pictures and stuff.)It's good to know that I only have to leave them up for about a week (at the VERY most) and then I can take them down.
I suppose I could PAY for more storage space...
Thanks.
Posted by Gracia L. Babbidge (Member # 582) on 01-30-2001, 03:50 AM:
I've been a Netscape user for as long as I've been an internet surfter. And I won't touch Netscape 6 with a 10' pole!...Its odd though, for some reason, Java isn't working right with Netscape on my machine, and I've been too much of a bum to track down what the problem is, so; for the few instances where I'm at a page where I need java stuff to work, I actually use IE5. Otherwise, I would not have that browser on my computer…
I never get angry with the Film-Tech site. It rocks!
My connection, and my machine on the other hand…
~GLB
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In some cultures, what I do is considered normal.
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 01-30-2001, 10:06 AM:
I use Netscape 4.7 and have no use for IE
Netscape also is the only stable browser for OS2 which I run on my file server in the office.
On my win based laptops I use Opera (which is now available for free((with banner ads or for $39.00 without ads)) and it is 100% HTML compliant very fast and takes up little harddisk space and requires little system resources
It I have found the best on resource starved laptops maeking longdistance conections from a hotel
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-30-2001, 05:18 PM:
I don't get all these problems people seem to be having with IE. Reloading? Refreshing? Maybe it's because the computers I use are fairly new (FINALLY!) but I've been using IE since day 1 and have never had any sort of problem.If I had any complaints at all, it would be that you can't bookmark the forums. Even that's only a minor thing, 'cause I keep an address bar on my taskbar and it's always got "www.film-tech.com" there, so I just have to click-it. It's a hassle having to go thru the menu and disclaimer screens every time though.
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-30-2001, 07:42 PM:
Hassle, yes. A necessity, yes also. Due to a couple of minor incidents last year with a company lurking on the forums, the disclaimer was decided upon to be mandatory for legal reasons in the best interest of the members. If I allow direct bookmarking into the site, it lets people get around this and any announcements on the main page will be overlooked.
Posted by Cory Johnson (Member # 103) on 01-30-2001, 10:18 PM:
Site works great with Mac OS X and OmniWeb. Once the final is released of IE for X, it should be excellent also. Currently, thought the latest build of OmniWeb is rockin' the house... Houston, we have a winner...
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 01-30-2001, 11:03 PM:
IE for Mac OS X works pretty well... nice browser for the most part. Haven't tried Omniweb. How does it handle:
*JavaScript
*DHTML
*VBScript
*CSS
*XML ?