Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Bootable CD ROM

This is topic Bootable CD ROM in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 03-19-2001, 09:03 PM:

So far, nobody seems to have an answer on how to make a CDROM bootable. If you know how, I would be very greatful if you could give me instructions.

Thanks

Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 03-19-2001, 11:43 PM:

Short answer: You can't boot cold from a CD-ROM unless the computer recognizes how to read the drive. Generally, that task is relegated to the OS and driver, making it a circular problem.

The driver for the CDROM drive needs to be loaded before the disk in the CDROM can be read. Trying to make a CDROM disk universally bootable is similar to asking the Space shuttle to take off without the booster rockets.

With a floppy drive at $15, why bother? Boot from the floppy, load the driver and go from there. If you want to make it look like it is booting cold, don't put the floppy slot through the front bezel, just stick it inside the case with the bootup floppy installed permanently. If it is a DOS based system, then do a SUBST to flip drive A: and drive B:

Just what is it you're trying to do, and why?
Running an OS off a CDROM isn't a great idea. Many of the commands are only loaded when needed, and CDROMs give much slower access than hard drives. This could cause programs to pause, have timing problems or falter.

Posted by Jason Burroughs (Member # 68) on 03-20-2001, 12:10 AM:

Paul,

With CD creation software such as EZ Creator 4 or 5 there is an option to create a bootable CD, however you will need a bootable floppy (even a Windows startup Diskette will do) for it to copy the start up files from. Also you will have to make sure the BIOS is set to boot from the CD Drive first (before the Hard Drive)

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 03-20-2001, 12:44 AM:

Jason - Thanks for the tip. I have version 4.02, but I cannot locate a help file on creating a bootable CDROM.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 03-20-2001, 01:18 AM:

Just hold down the 'C' key while turning on or restarting the computer to boot from the CD-ROM drive. On your CD, just make sure that there is a valid System Folder in the root directory. That's how it's done on the Mac, so it must be just as easy and straightforward in Windows.

You really can't go wrong with any product from MicroSoft! They always take care of their customers needs promptly and effectively. What is that piling up in here? Oh, it's my own BS.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 03-20-2001, 02:44 AM:

Jerry, what I am trying to do is establish a boot sector on a CD disk I am burning, just like a floppy. After thinking about this, CD burning software software doesn't work with DOS or Windows 3.1, and therefore establishing a DOS 6.22 MBR on a CD disk being burned may not be possible. Does this make sense?

I wanted to make a data CD for DOS programs, as some of them don't run correctly under Windows 9X.

Posted by Tod J. Weitzel (Member # 760) on 03-20-2001, 03:07 AM:

Try consulting the resources located here

Short answer: under EZCD 4, hit the small arrow next to the NEW button to get a popup menu of all the types you can create. The bottom one is "bootable CD."

-Tw?

(One of these days there will be a film-oriented topic I will be able to post in intelligently...)
------------------
Resident nerd.

Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 03-20-2001, 10:54 AM:

Paul, I think I am still missing something. A floppy doesn't need a boot sector to be readable, all it needs is a proper fat (file allocation table). Using something like format /s puts the IO.SYS and COMMAND.COM on the floppy. The term "bootable" should ONLY be used to refer to a disk with an OS on it.
This may be what you want, but I'm not sure.

There should be no reason why you can't get the CDROM to read in DOS using a standard CD drive and MSDEX, although, of course, you won't be able to write to it if your burning software doesn't work in DOS. You WILL have to make sure the disk is in the STANDARD CD data format.

My guess is that you are using DirectCD to create disks that can be modified like floppies. These can be read under various Windows machines, but not under DOS or Win 3.11. People confuse DirectCD and CD Creator all the time.
http://www.roxio.com/ has the adaptec support faqs. Quoting: "In order to support packet writing, when DirectCD closes a session to the ISO 9660 format, it must use ISO 9660 Interchange Level 3. Unfortunately, DOS and Windows 3.1 can only read ISO 9660 Level 1, so DirectCD discs, even when closed to ISO, cannot be read by these operating systems"

If you ARE using EZ CD creator then this should help: "Problem Session Not Closed- It sometimes happens that the data (or audio) is recorded correctly, but the session is not closed. In this case a CD recorder can read the disc, but a normal CD-ROM drive or CD audio player cannot. Solution - In Easy CD Creator, go to Disc | Disc Information and click on the Close Session button."

Does this help?

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 03-20-2001, 11:07 AM:

I just copy my system folder over to the CD then hit the "C" key to boot off CD.

Actually you don't even need the WHOLE system folder. All you need is the System file, the ROM file and the Extensions folder.

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 03-20-2001, 11:19 AM:

I may be making this a little more confusing but I wanted to make some points. The CD-RW burners require that you use re-writable CD media when using Directcd. The problem with this is you are restricted to only being able to use the CD-RW type roms. They will not work in any other type of cd-rom. However making an exact copy over to a cd-R disk will not have this problem. The drawback is that once you right the information it stays there. Now you can still append the info. The burner just makes what you delete into dead sectors. The disk will fill up with information. What you could posably do is Copy the dos Based files that you are trying to copy over to a floppy disk. Then under the provided program that your cd burner uses you can copy the files from the floppy over to the burner. What you might want to do is do a sample of what I mentioned above and see if it works before devoting a lot of time into it.

Posted by Jason Burroughs (Member # 68) on 03-20-2001, 12:41 PM:

I'm not familiar with Mac's TOO much so I'll stick to what I know...

There is not a keyboard command to force a boot from CD, the boot order needs to be set in the BIOS, so that it will check the CD first, normal boot order is A,C (or IDE0) SCSI or IDE-CD the method of changing this order depends on the BIOS.

For any drive to be able to boot it needs to not only have a boot sector but the necessary files as well. Formatting a floppy with the /s switch accomplishes this, however it works if you have DOS, Windows 95 or 98.

As someone stated before in CD Creator click on the down arrow next to "New" and select Bootable CD it will walk you through it.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 03-20-2001, 04:28 PM:

Tod, thank you. I'll research the stuff you sent me, and I think I can make it work.

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 03-21-2001, 02:04 AM:

Buy a Mac, and do as Joe said above! you know PC users say macs are just toys blah blah blah but at least WE CAN START OUR COMPUTER from a cd if we want to as well as many other things! I hate PC's and I hate windows
rant off
thank you

------------------
I love to smoke I smoke seventhousand packs a day and I'm never F*&ing quittin!-- Denis Leary

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 03-25-2001, 01:19 AM:

Hi, Sean. We can start our computers from CD's also.

MAC has an excellent platform, no doubt about it. Trouble is, some of the specialized programs I have do not fit a MAC. Some of the crap I have to contend with in our on-air computers at the radio station were written to run under MSDOS. Even the update as of last month.

Macro-Shaft has some good points, too. It is just like eating feces - millions and millions flies can't be wrong!

Making a bootable CD was more of a curiosity than anything else. And, with Tod's help, mission accomplished.

Again, thanks, Tod, and the rest of you gents who tried to help me. Your guidance is what did the trick, and I learned something.

I hope I can help all of you in a technical matter when your butt falls through a crack.

These forums are GREAT!

Posted by Aldo Baez (Member # 790) on 04-10-2001, 04:54 PM:

With the newer motherboards, if your cdrom is recognized in the bios (usually done with most major brands) any os cd rom will boot automatically (as long as you set the computer to check to boot the cdrom first before anything).

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 04-10-2001, 06:43 PM:

Aldo, this is very true. However, the cd has to be bootable. That is what I was trying to do, and succeeded, thanks to the suggestions that were posted.