Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Is It A Film?

This is topic Is It A Film? in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by James R. Hammonds, Jr (Member # 673) on 04-22-2001, 09:35 PM:

Everyone seems to refer to movies in general as "films."

I recently went to see a movie called "Series 7" and as I walked in, I was told to "enjoy my film."

Series 7 is about reality television and is shown as a TV marathon and was shot on video (rightfully so in my opinion).

So is it right to call it a film if it was not shot on film but is being shown on film?

When should we call it a film and when should we call it something else?

If it was shot on film and is being shown on film, then it is most definitely a film.

What happens when it hits the video and dvd maket?
What does it become then?

Can I watch a movie that was shot on film for the first time on video and say "oh, I saw that film; it was good."

From what I understand, SPY KIDS was shot all on digital video and transferes to film, but the opening credits still say "A Film By Robert Rodriguez."
Is it really now?

So is it ok to call it a film if it was:

A. shot on film and viewed on video or dvd?
B. shot on video (of any kind) and shown on film?
C. Shot on video and shown on video?

What is a movie was shot on video (Bamboozled, Dancer in the Dark, Chuck & Buck, Series 7), weleased on film, then transfered to dvd (do they even do that or would they just transfer the video directly to the dvd which makes more sense?)?

I know the answer to C is definitely no, but what do you guys think about the others?

What are the requirements now?

If the digital revolution DOES go through and no one ever uses film again, who will force the movie makers to stop calling themselve filmmakers?

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 04-23-2001, 12:34 AM:

hmmmmmmmmm, I guess you could call it a motion picture

Posted by Rachel Carter (Member # 693) on 04-23-2001, 02:08 AM:

I think if the movie you are watching is on film or the movie was shot on film they can be called film.

Just my opinion.

Posted by Jonathan Haglund (Member # 807) on 04-23-2001, 04:56 AM:

Film seems to be more symbolic of a quality piece of work. In this sense, an art film is redundant.
Chasing Amy is a film.

A movie is just a movie.
See Spot Run is a movie.

When you rent a film or movie on viedo and see it, you never say "oh yea, I saw that video." Seeing a video usually means pr0n. You see a "film on video (DVD)" or a "movie on video (DVD)"

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Jonathan Haglund
Edwards Theatre Circuit, Inc
Park Place 10

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 04-23-2001, 04:37 PM:

Some people do seem to use 'film' as a generic term to describe any sort of moving picture.

The other one that really annoys me is the use of 'celluloid' to distinguish between film and video. But I suppose 'polyester' doesn't have the same mystique to it!

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-23-2001, 06:09 PM:

We say "Enjoy the 'show.'" Cuz we are in show business, after all!

Posted by James R. Hammonds, Jr (Member # 673) on 04-25-2001, 03:03 AM:

<<Film seems to be more symbolic of a quality piece of work. In this sense, an art film is redundant. Chasing Amy is a film. A movie is just a movie. See Spot Run is a movie.>>

Dont take it personally, but I dont buy in to that load of pretentious crap. I believe that Chasing Amy and See Spot Run are both films. Its just that Chasing Amy is a GOOD film and See Spot Run is a bad film.

Who the hell came up with "ART FILM" anyway? Anything someone creates is art, whether its a 4 year old kids scribble scrabble or a painting or the best movie ever made. All films are art films in my book. Calling something art just because its "better" than everything else is just another pretention.

By saying that aquality piece of work is a film and a bad piece of work is a movie, are you suggesting that a really good quality DV project is a film? There is a class at my school where we have to make a tv show for the school's cable station. I know these two guys who made a movie that was done really well, but film had nothing to do with it. But just because its a quality piece of work does not mean that i will call it a film.

<<We say "Enjoy the 'show.'" Cuz we are in show business, after all!>>

Sure, thats what you may say to the customer, but im talking about general conversation here. If we really wanted to be really nitpicky, in what context would we say film vs. movie vs. video.

By the way, im not THAT anal, I just thought it would be fun to really dig deep into this topic with the digital revolution trying to break through.

Posted by Jonathan Haglund (Member # 807) on 04-25-2001, 05:31 AM:

Well, I'd have to disagree about all expression is art. Many things outside the movies may indeed be art, I don't pay much attention to them though. In movies, some are made very hastily and are simply a product to gain money. A project to the people who work on it and an entry in the finance books to the backers.

DV projects and television are different categories with their own terms and subterms.

Digital projection shouldn't change the names because digital is just a means to an end. In that respect though, it should cause a name change, because film is just a means to an end as well, but it was introduced when things were given silly names like that: moving picture, which became movie, and film, which both fall under the grand english category of lazy words. A drink, a sidewalk, a film, all sheer laziness in naming. Perhaps there should be new terms invented.

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Jonathan Haglund
Edwards Theatre Circuit, Inc
Park Place 10

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 04-25-2001, 07:17 AM:

FWIW, most music VIDEOS and TELEVISION shows are shot on FILM. When you go to Blockbuster to rent a VIDEO or DVD or MOVIE, you know it usually originated on FILM. So it's usually the final display format that defines what we call it.

When I go to see a 35mm print presented in a theatre, I am going to see a FILM, or going to the MOVIES or going to the CINEMA.

When I go to see a digital presentation in a theatre, I am going to see DIGITAL CINEMA, or perhaps a MOVIE, but not FILM.

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John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 05-02-2001, 12:06 AM:

I kind of laugh at the term "digital projection". I'm sure the word "digital" is used with DLP since the public in general still buys the "digital" buzzword as meaning "perfect." But many of use know there are good and bad forms of digital.

If I watch a show originally photographed on film and projected on a filmstrip, that is a true film experience. Films transferred to video formats like DVD can still be called movies I suppose.

But I could never use the term "film" for something that originated on videotape, be it analog or digital based. It is still video. DLP is video projection --just a glorified digital version of it. It is not much different from watching a DVD. And the current forms of DLP don't match the resolution standards of HD digital video.

Posted by Demetris Thoupis (Member # 833) on 05-02-2001, 09:17 AM:

So the question is "AM I WATCHING A FILM"

If you go to a traditional cinema where you can hear the projector running upstairs (except if it is a Kinoton where you cannot listen at all) then YES you are watching a FILM with no matter whether it was shot on digital video or on Film, because now through the projector, a 35mm or a 70mm FILM is running, therefore you are watching a FILM. If you go to a NEW DIGITAL cinema you are watching a MOVIE since there is no F I L M...

So that is my opinion. Also in your home you are watching a MOVIE and not a film since you cannot listen the traditional cracking sound of the film running through the projector

Hope that answers your question

Demetris Thoupis

"FOR STRENGTH AND HONOUR"

Posted by Bill Dunphy (Member # 730) on 05-02-2001, 10:09 AM:

The terms "film", "movie", "video", etc. are defined by who is using them.

I work in "Motion Picture" and "Video" production so when we work on a "film" it is a project that is being shot on film, when we work on a "video" it is being shot on video.

The best way I think to determine what you are seeing on screen and what to call it is determined by two things:

1. What medium was it originated on?
2. What medium is it being viewed on?

This is my first posting here on Film-Tech and I have to say these forums are one of the best I've seen. Yes, I also have theatre experience as well, both as Manager and Projectionist.

Bill Dunphy
Black Tie Productions
Motion Picture & Video
610 Petaluma Blvd. North Suite B
Petaluma, CA 94952
707-766-7207
707-766-7208 Fax www.blacktieproductions.net
drcinema@att.net

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Posted by Evans A Criswell (Member # 381) on 05-02-2001, 10:15 AM:

When I talk about watching movies at home, I typically always refer to them as "movies" and not "films". In cases of watching "Short Cinema Journal" discs where the pieces are referred to as "short films", I'll refer to those as films simply because any term other than "short films" just doesn't have the same ring to it.

Last night, as my friends and I watched "Emperor's New Groove", I wondered if the transfer ever hit film at all, since I noticed no film grain (maybe I should examine more closely). Movies like Toy Story, Toy Story 2, A Bug's Life, etc. are transferred to digital media by rerendering rather than by scanning from a film print. In those cases, a DVD presentation or a DLP presentation never hits film. I wouldn't call those "films" unless I were watching an actual print of them in a theatre.

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Evans A Criswell
Huntsville-Decatur Movie Theatre Info Site

Posted by Charles Everett (Member # 889) on 07-21-2001, 10:17 AM:

Films are for snobs. Movies are for real people.

Keep it real!

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 07-21-2001, 11:18 PM:

Well, how about simply saying, "Enjoy the show." ??