This is topic Service tools in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000337

Posted by Rick Long (Member # 213) on 06-18-2001, 10:36 PM:
 
I first started out, working with seasoned, experienced engineers, (at least they called us engineers till we asked for a raise, then suddenly, we became technicians).

The older guys used to carry a doctor's satchel containing (in order or priority) their lunch, a Simpson 260 VOM, and a few wrenches (God help you if they caught you using an adjustable wrench) A small screwdriver was always clipped to their jacket pocket.

They assured me that it was experience that enabled them to get by with just these things.

Of course, that was just before the days of Dolby stereo.

I was wondering what other technicians carry in the way of tools for general and emergency service calls. Also what brand of tools are you using?

As Randy alluded to, in another post, no decent technician would ever be seen with a soldering gun. (Personally I use an iron with replaceable elements that allow me to select the heat and tip I need for a specific job.)

In my area, we have a mix of American and European equipment which means carrying both s.a.e. and metric tools (allen keys and wrenches).

Do you carry every possible tool you may ever need in your tool-box? If so, your carrying arm, like mine, must be considerably longer by now.

Do you sort tools in the trunk of your car according to the theatre you are at and the equipment therein?

Do you (like most of us) invent some of your own tools for specific jobs?

And what brands of tools do you find are most efficient and long-lasting? (links would be appreciated here).
 


Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-19-2001, 09:28 AM:
 
Ha! Things have sure changed these days. It seems like when I get to where I'm going I always need something I don't have with me in spite of the fact that my service vehicle is usually about to burst at the seams from being loaded with too much stuff.
Basic tools are needed, Screwdrivers, wrenches, allen Key sets,both metric and standard, files of all sorts, drift punches, hammer, drill bits, knock out punches, pipe benders, fishtape,and of course at least several adjustable wrenches thrown in to piss every one off. This does not include the sound gear which usually consists of an Ivie PC40, THX, R-2, all the usual test films including a couple of full test reels, Phaser, O'scope,laptop computer(also used to make frequent postings to Film-Tech while on remote sites),Dolby extender, several different pink noise cards, spare intermittent parts like gaskets, cam pins, sprockets, shoes, etc for on location movement repairs. I know I left at least 50 things off the list........I always throw in the digital camera, and sometimes the view camera depending on where I'm headed.
Mark @ GTS
 
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-19-2001, 10:12 AM:
 
After years of getting pissed off with excellite tools (the slots and phillips) getting the tips bent (they are too soft) and not having the best contour I switched to useing Wera tools
My tool box contains
I carry a set of Prince Reed, Phillips, Slots, and robertsons.
I still use the excelite 99 serries for nutdrivers, splines, and allens
I carry a OK industries soldering station and a weller gun (with demagnitizing coils) and a 100 watt american beauty iron for diodes
A set of flat wrenchs and an adjustable
A ball pean and a plastic hammer, set of needle files and a auger bit file(best apperture file out there) A dremel tool as well
wire strippers, crimper,a stepped tap vernier caliper and a lot of other little gizmos
The sound case has the leader scope, the R2 test films cables cel spl meter pinknoise cards gauss meter


 


Posted by Rick Long (Member # 213) on 06-19-2001, 01:55 PM:
 
Thats true! Gord gave me a few of these demagnetizing coils. Made of 1/4" brass, they can be formed to fit whatever gate, sprocket, or pad-roller shaft you need to fit. Using these with a Weller D-550 gun, you can demagnetize the earth.

The Excellites are handy though, only because you dont have to carry a handle for every bit, which would make it necessary to put wheels and helium balloons on my tool box. Anyone ever try getting these hardened at a machine shop?



 


Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-19-2001, 02:20 PM:
 
I tried haveing them case hardend and they were just too britle
I found that in the long run the exelites for that standard slots-phillips-robertsons just didn't last longenough to be worthwhile
Wera makes a set of handle + blades that is very durable but expensive http://www.wera.de/indexe.html


 


Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-19-2001, 05:42 PM:
 
I agree with Gord on the Wera tools. They are hard to beat the quality and the tips hold up better than most screwdrivers do. I'd say a 10 to 1 life span over regular X-Cellite stuff. I also carry a small socket set as well as this speeds up assembly quite a bit.
Mark @ GTS
 
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 06-19-2001, 09:58 PM:
 
I use pretty much all CraftsmanŽ tools. The main reason is that I can get them replaced at any Sears. Since I travel a lot that can be a life saver. No matter where I go, there's likely to be a Sears store within a short drive of the theatre.

I have a case full of various and sundry hand tools, just as others have mentioned. I also collect other tools as needed. For instance, just last week I had to remove a flywheel from a projector and I found out that it was rusted on pretty well. I tapped on it and sprayed some WD-40 on it but it wouldn't budge. I didn't want to use any more force on it for fear of trashing the bearings. I ended up going to Auto Zone and getting a gear puller. It worked like a charm. So, now I have this thing clunking around the trunk of my car. I probably should have saved the receipt and packaging so I could take it back and get a refund. I guess I'm just too honest. At least this way I have it in case of another emergency like that. I like to collect tools too, so this is just another piece for my collection.

*************

PS: Stay away from those "junk tools" like the Pocket Socket or the Zip Wrench! They are cheap, they don't work and you'll usually just end up rounding off your bolt heads. Stick to the good, old fashioned SIX POINT box end wrench. I don't even use eight point wrenches unless I'm up against an oddball bolt with a square head, for instance.

*************

I buy all my own hand tools. The company would have bought me a set if I asked nicely enough. I prefer it this way. If I "need" a certain tool I don't have to ask permission to buy it, only to have the boss say, "No, you don't need it." Furthermore, if I want to do something like work on my car, I don't have to worry about the boss accusing me of using company property for personal reasons... the tools belong to ME! I can do what I want with them!

I have an agreement with the boss that if I lose or break something while on the job, the company will pay to replace it as long as I submit the receipts. Of course, I have 90% Craftsman tools so breakage is a moot point. (And, YES! I have taken an occasional Craftsman tool back for replacement. Usually, it's no hassle at all.) If I need a specialized tool, such as a serial cable to connect my laptop (company provided) to a digital processor, all I have to do is submit the receipt and an explanation of why I need it. I have only had one request get rejected. It was for a pair of toenail clippers. It was the only tool I could think of to cut the jumpers off those Comp. Eng. preamp/analog readers without disassembling the whole thing. It wasn't a big issue so I let it drop. I figure if I fight the small stuff, they'll give me a harder time when it comes to someting else.

As for the rest of my stuff, the company provides all that:

The only thing that I don't have that I think (know) that I need is a photometer. We researched the prices on those and the cheapest one we could find was about $1,800. When you have a dozen guys all around the country, that can really add up. Again, I think if we pushed the issue we might be able to get some but then when it came to other things, we wouldn't be able to "afford" them.

One thing I definately recommend: Get wheeled cases for as much of your junk as you can! You'll appreciate it when you have to lug all this junk into the theatre. While you're at it, make sure that all the cases are "airline approved". Not only will it come in handy if you have to make an emergency flight somewhere but it helps keep your stuff from getting damaged when you haul it out of the trunk of your car.
 


Posted by Rick Long (Member # 213) on 06-19-2001, 11:59 PM:
 
I have pretty much the same arrangement with my company with tools, Randy. And I agree about how sometimes its best to sometimes forget the small stuff.

Getting a little off the subject, speaking of small stuff, whenever I grab a coffee while on the road, out-of-town, I always grab a receipt and submit it. When asked why am I being so "cheap" about coffee, I replied;

"Have a look at that report I just submitted. It says I went to Kingston Saturday, (250 miles round trip) did the emergency service, and came home again. How do you know I didnt just solve the problem over the phone, put my feet up, have a couple of beers and watch the ball game and bill you anyways? Because you have these receipts with date and time that shows where I was."

Anyways, getting back to topic, it is a whole lot more fun getting on a short-haul flight where you carry on your own luggage these days.

I currently am using a lineman's case, similar to Gord's and find that more and more I am having to pack the damn thing very strategicaly, or be unable to close the lid without sitting on it.

BTW, re: wrenches, why six-point and not 12?


 


Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 06-20-2001, 12:50 AM:
 
If you use a 12 point wrench, the facets of the wrench don't make contact with the whole surface of the bolt head. Six point wrenches exactly fit the head. There's no chance of them slipping off and rounding the corners. Secondary to that is that if the wrench slips you are likely to skin your knuckles, or worse. Another thing is that the walls of the wrench are sometimes a bit thinner. They are more likely to break. It doesn't happen very often but I HAVE done it. (I once broke a Grade-5 bolt using an box-end wrench, too!)

There are two situations when I will use a 12 point. One is when you have to tighten/loosen a bolt that has a square head. A six point wrench won't fit. The other is when you are working in a tight space. Because there are more ways for the wrench to fit onto the bolt you don't don't need as much space. A six pointer needs a 60 degree rotation to advance the next face of the bolt into position for the next turn. A 12 pointer only needs 30 degrees. If you are working between two obstacles you might not have enough space to swing the wrench back and forth.
 


Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 06-20-2001, 01:33 PM:
 
Randy said: "The only thing that I don't have that I think (know) that I need is a photometer. We researched the prices on those and the cheapest one we could find was about $1,800. When you have a dozen guys all around the country, that can really add up. Again, I think if we pushed the issue we might be able to get some but then when it came to other things, we wouldn't be able to "afford" them."

That's sad, but not surprising. Interesting that thousands of dollars for the test films and sound test gear are accepted as the "price of doing business", but a meter to be sure you have the correct screen luminance is considered extravagant.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


 


Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-20-2001, 05:08 PM:
 
Actually it would be good for the industry if a low cost light meter was available so the theatres would own one. Maybe not a cheap as the radio shack SPL meter but in the 300-400 dollar range.
In a lot of ways I don't think it would take a lot of rocket science to do it either. It is too bad that the sekonic Foot Lambert meter was not modifiable to a longer time constant as it is nice and small and reasoable price
 
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 06-20-2001, 05:26 PM:
 
How often is the light meter really needed, though? I am assuming that it is essential equipment for new installations and major equipment changes (lamphouses, lenses, reflectors, rectifiers, etc.), but how would a meter like this be useful in daily theatre operation? (I'm not saying that it wouldn't be...I'm just trying to think of how the expense of purchasing one for every theatre could be justified.)
 
Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 06-20-2001, 05:37 PM:
 
Regarding inexpensive screen light meters.....Andy at Photo Analysis Company in Wayne N.J. sold an inexpensive modified screen light meter for under $500.00. We sold many of them to management / tech personel for several circuits as a ballpark guide in obtaining good standardized readings.....not everyone can run around with the pricy unit from LBJ/UltraStereo.
Richard Fowler
TVP-Theatre & Video Products Inc.
tvpmiami@tvpmiami.com
 
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-20-2001, 05:46 PM:
 
Richard I have one of those meters somewhere. It was a Pentax Spot meter that they recalibrated. Mine always still read half of what a Pectra or minolta would read.
I think it was a problem with the time constant of the intigrator
Never did get a schematic for it as I still think it should be easy to increase the averaging with caps since it is an analogue meter and Pentax spot meters are on ebay now for under 200.00
Or why could not something be built like the old Kollmorgen meters in design simple
Panavision used to make a meter that was based on visual comparrason you looked through it and turned the dial on the side till the split screen in it match and read off the number


 


Posted by Rory Burke (Member # 512) on 06-21-2001, 02:24 AM:
 
I myself personally buy the cheapest yet sturdiest tools i can find!! you know the made in china homedepot special they try and hock for a $1.99!!! I been all over the place, Canada, Mexico, Europe, and of course every stinking multiplex and single screen.. Its all the same everywhere...you know tools mysteriously developing legs from over exposure to those xenon bulbs and walk away!!! I've learned that a good pair of vicelli files or craftsman tools usually end up in the hands of others!!!! Rory!!
 
Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 06-21-2001, 02:48 AM:
 
quote:
Actually it would be good for the industry if a low cost light meter was available so the theatres would own one.

Roger that. I've brought up screen brightness several times to managers & tech folks who were honestly interested, and the routine is always:

"How do you check it?"
"With a meter."
"Well, how much does one cost?"
"About two thousand dollars."
"TWO THOUSAND DOLLARS!"

Interest ends like shutting off a switch.

 


Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 06-21-2001, 10:03 AM:
 
I've been developing an idea of a way to measure screen luminance, uniformity and color temperature using a manually adjustable single lens reflex 35mm camera. It uses a well-established technique called "photographic photometry".

Natural daylight provides a very repeatable source of light. When the sun is at a given height above the horizon (say 45-degrees elevation) on a clear blue-sky day, the intensity and color temperature of daylight is very constant and repeatable, and able to serve as a standard. Say that under those conditions, you would have 5500K (actually D-5500) color temperature and an illuminance of 8000 footcandles. If you took a photograph of a 100% white sheet of paper illuminated by daylight using Kodak ELITE CHROME 100 reversal film, and used a camera exposure that gave a midscale gray on the processed film, you would have a standard representing 8000 footlamberts at D-5500. If you now photographed movie screens with a camera exposure 9 stops greater on the same roll of film, the image of the screens lit to 16 footlamberts and D-5500 should match the "standard" daylight exposure. (i.e., one stop differences in exposure are 8000, 4000, 2000, 1000, 500, 250, 125, 64, 32, 16, giving 9 stops between 8000 and 16).

So, you could expose one "standard" daylight exposure on a roll of color slide film, then photograph each of the screens in a multiplex theatre onto the same roll of film, with 9 stops more exposure than was used for the 8000 footlambert daylight "standard". After processing the reversal film, the daylight exposure would serve as a reference, and the picture of each screen could be compared to it to see if it was darker or lighter, or significantly different in color. You could quantify the luminance, uniformity and color of over 20 screens for the cost of a roll of Kodak ELITE CHROME 100 slide film and processing -- maybe about US $0.50 (50 cents) per screen.

As an example, with Kodak ELITE CHROME 100 film, using an exposure of 1/500 second, f/16 would produce a midscale gray when photographing a 100% white card directly illuminated by natural daylight. Photographing a properly lit screen with an exposure of 1/15 second at f/4 (9 stops more exposure) on the same piece of film should produce an image that matches for density and color.

Is this idea worth developing into a procedure? How many would have the SLR camera and photographic ability to use such a method? Your comments and suggestions are welcome.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


 


Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 06-21-2001, 10:27 AM:
 
Excellent idea. The camera used would have to have a full one second exposure to minimize the effects of the shutter position at the start and stop.

Another simple idea would be to develop (sorry for the pun) the design of a lightsource that provided a known 16 fl using an LED or flashlight bulb illuminating a small white square of material. This could be held up to visually compare against the brightness of the screen. The advantage would be portability, inexpensiveness, and instant readout. It wouldn't be useful for color value though.

Speaking of color values, could you speak of the comment I saw elsewhere about film appearing more cold due to poor reflectors? This was the first I'd heard of it, and I assume that dichroic reflectors may be "leaking" reds? Is this a big problem?



 


Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 06-21-2001, 10:36 AM:
 
Jerry - the 1/15 second exposure for the screen may be long enough, but I agree something longer would be less likely to capture a partial opening of the projector shutter. Maybe 1/4 second would be long enough, and still not need a tripod for the camera. Or leave the f/stop at f/16, and use 1/500 second vs. 1 second to get the 9 stop differential.

Tough to maintain a portable light standard. To do it right would probably cost as much as a good meter.

Dichroic mirrors vary considerably, and will change as the coatings wear.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


 


Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 06-21-2001, 10:44 AM:
 
For something of this nature, even a hand held exposure at 1 second should give acceptable results. As long as the camera wasn't moving wildly, and the camera close enough to nearly fill the viewfinder it should be fine.

I suspect LEDs would give a fairly constant light output.

Is the trend to blue something we will see worsen as theatres age?

 


Posted by Evans A Criswell (Member # 381) on 06-21-2001, 10:49 AM:
 
Can't you make a cheap light meter quite easily as follows?

Take a Velveeta cheese box (or similar-shaped box that is rather long and narrow. Put a flashlight bulb in one end of the box and wire it to the proper voltage battery. Take a paper hole punch and punch a row of holes in the middle of a side, going from one side to the other. Cover the front of the box (and the holes) with a sheet of paper cut to fit. It would look something like this (It's rough, but I drew it very quickly):

Calibrating the device is an issue. The way I did it when I built one of these as part of a science project in spring of 1982 (8th grade) was through the use of a light source of a known intensity and the inverse square law. Get a lamp and take the shade off and put in a 100 watt standard light bulb (the kind that puts out 1750 lumens). Go outside with it and find a place where reflections from the bulb from anything are negligible (at night, of course).

For each hole, the light inside the box will shine through the holes through the paper covering the front. The intensity will be greatest for holes near the bulb and lesser for holes at the far end of the box. Hold the box with its face pointed straight at the 100W light bulb and for each hole, find the distance from the 100W light bulb where the intensity of the hole is the same of the surrouding paper. Based on the distance from the bulb, calculate the foot-candles by dividing 1750 by (4 * pi), then dividing by the distance, in feet, from the bulb, squared). For example, for a particular hole, if the proper distance is 10 feet from the bulb, then the foot-candle value for that hole is about 1.4. 4 feet from the bulb, the value would be about 8.7.

I built one of these long ago and you could measure luminous intensity by placing the meter and checking to see how many holes through which the light source was visible from in the box, and the point at which it was the reading. You write the values underneath the holes. I forget where I saw the description of the construction of this simple meter. It was in an old book that is probably much older than I am, but it was a fun little thing to build. Could something like it be used to measure foot-lamberts?

It's cheesy (literally), but can be built for practically nothing.

------------------
Evans A Criswell
Huntsville-Decatur Movie Theatre Info Site


 


Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-21-2001, 11:05 AM:
 
That is very similar to the old panavision meter they had a graduated ND filter over the light source that you matched to
 
Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 06-21-2001, 11:27 AM:
 
The calibrated light source should be the same color temperature as the light from the screen, otherwise visual matching would be difficult. So a tungsten lamp or LED would be problematic. Perhaps some type of fluorescent lamp would work with the "cheesebox" idea.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion
 


Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 06-21-2001, 03:06 PM:
 
Rory:

People know better than to take my tools. If they do they are likely to end up with a screwdriver sticking out of their eye socket!
 


Posted by Rick Long (Member # 213) on 06-24-2001, 03:07 PM:
 
OK, I've forgotten most of my German phrases. Does anyone have a link to the Wera website in English?
 
Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 06-25-2001, 05:40 AM:
 
quote:
When the sun is at a given height above the horizon (say 45-degrees elevation) on a clear blue-sky day, the intensity and color temperature of daylight is very constant and repeatable, and able to serve as a standard.

"Clear blue sky" is not a regular, reliable occurrence in the spring, summer & fall in southern coastal areas.


 


Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 06-25-2001, 05:45 AM:
 
quote:
People know better than to take my tools. If they do they are likely to end up with a screwdriver sticking out of their eye socket

You're supposed to use a socket wrench for that.

As long as toolboxes are being examined, the next question would likely be "What is the most strange & unlikely tool in your tool box?"

I've got a short-handled 5 pound sledge (I forgot what I needed it for). It has a factory label on the side which identifies it as an "Engineering Hammer".

It is useful when problems require extensive engineering.


 


Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 06-25-2001, 10:55 AM:
 
William Hooper said: ""Clear blue sky" is not a regular, reliable occurrence in the spring, summer & fall in southern coastal areas."

Likewise, winter in Rochester has few days when you can even see the sun, and there are only a few minutes that it is more than 45 degrees above the horizon. But finding a "standard" illuminant is difficult. For example, the light output of a tungsten lamp varies significantly as the voltage is changed. Another way of using "photographic photometry" would be to photograph a "standard" screen known to have exactly 16 footlamberts, and then compare the photos of other screens taken on the same roll of slide film with exactly the same exposure.

IMHO, the BEST OPTION is to buy that $2000 screen luminance meter, and share it among theatres. If the meter is used to maintain proper screen luminance on 100 screens, the cost is only $20 per screen. And with proper care, the meter should last indefinitely.


------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


 


Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 06-26-2001, 03:21 PM:
 
As an Aircraft Mechanic, Machinist and Projectionist, I already added my bit(in the film-handler's forum) about quality tools. And y'all mentioned some that I did not. Personally, I used a light meter EVERY time I changed a bulb. I also tried to check the focus on at least 10 bulbs every week depending on when I closed. Remember that under focusing the bulb can result in a crappy picture, and overfocusing may result in overheating the gate/trap, film, lens, reflector/mirror - the result being damage! Some people are quite good and can get 16f.l w/o using a meter. Also, if the screen, audience and projector are not in alignment, it may be very difficult to achieve even screen lighting at 16f.l. But those meters are very expensive-and take care of them because they can be just as expensive to service!
 
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 08-02-2001, 01:45 PM:
 
What brnd of crimping tool do most people carry for making up the DB25 connectors?
 
Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 08-02-2001, 02:41 PM:
 
Round these parts we solder the things!
 




Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2