This is topic When is a first run no longer first run? in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by Rachel Gilardi (Member # 4594) on 03-10-2002, 02:49 AM:
This is a general question probably pertaining more to smaller theaters that do not always get their films in the first week because of various circumstances like not having enough room to run the film or they do not get the film right off because of the film company’s…etc etc.I have been told that if a theater gets a film within the first 4 weeks of its running then it is "first run". When can you call a film a first run? Is it only the first week of running, the first theater in the area to run the film, or is it first run when shown for the first time within an allotted time (the 4 weeks for example)? Also, is this a different story for art films because they get released differently? When is it a first run art film? Just wondering...
If you have an opinion about mainstream and not art (or vise versa) please post, I am just looking for opinions on both because I have been told a couple different things. Thanks!
Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 03-10-2002, 03:50 AM:
Sometimes it depends on what your ticket price is. $8 will get you day and date, $5 will get you a few weeks out and $3 will get you second run.
Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 03-10-2002, 10:39 AM:
Well, the four weeks standard is based on booking agreements. Most first run films are booked on a minimum of four week runs.Some distributors are real pickey about when they consider their film Sub-Run. Disney can go five or six months before they consider it.
There is what is called an intermediat booking process. That's where the film can play in a market on the break, then be picked up by another theater that may have lower prices, yet not Sub-run prices in the same market after the initial four week booking agreement.
Posted by Mike Spaeth (Member # 524) on 03-10-2002, 11:25 AM:
4-weeks? I thought that the minimum was 2-weeks. When I was in a first-run theater ... there were scores of film that we only played for 2 weeks (and opened on the break). Boy are you right about Disney ... i STILL don't even have a date for Monsters, Inc.
Posted by Kelsey Black (Member # 126) on 03-10-2002, 12:10 PM:
At my theater, our booker is good at getting us prints whenever we want them, and that is usually on the break, and for most studios, that's 2 weeks after release. Of course in the case of something that's doing really good business, it may take a couple weeks longer for us to get a print. Exceptions to this are Buena Vista, and Fox. Fox has us on their "low grossing" list, so we usually have to wait for that film's business to take a drop before we can get a print of it. Our booker is really good at getting prints on release though, but in the case of most films, it's not worth the extra 25% or whatever, as well as the 2-week run requirement.
Usually I find it better to let the bigger theaters feel out a movie and weed out all the garbage before we decide if we want to get it. and as an added bonus, we pay less to have the title, AND have a better overall run.
Posted by Charles Everett (Member # 889) on 03-10-2002, 01:38 PM:
In Central New Jersey a discount theater just ran Black Hawk Down for 1 week (3/1-7) while it was still running in two nearby megaplexes. The discount theater is at least 10 miles away from the megaplexes and not in the same zone.Minimum runs: From what I can ascertain it's 4 weeks for event pictures (Star Wars/Harry Potter), 2 weeks for most mainstream product and 1 week for arthouse films. I was fortunate I didn't have to go into Manhattan to see In the Mood for Love -- the Reading Cinemas in Manville NJ ran it as a 1-week programmer last March.
Rachel: Generally speaking, first run for arthouse pictures is any time after the picture opens in a particular geographic area. Amelie opened in Northern New Jersey on 11/9/2001 but didn't get to the AMC Hamilton until 11/16/2001.
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-10-2002, 01:49 PM:
We are on Fox's low-grossing list too. It is the dumbest thing in all of show biz. I have mentioned to them that if we could get films quicker than six weeks after the break, we might not BE low grossing; they just don't get it.Oh well. I'm happy to skip over their non-performers and play everyone else's movies on the break or within three weeks, and send higher rent checks to other studios if that's what makes Fox happy.
They HAVE released a few movies to low-grossers on the break, however...if they're trying to set a record or guarantee a big weekend. Last year, they did it with "Planet of the Apes" and "Behind Enemy Lines," and so far this year, "Ice Age." We went with Planet and we are going with Ice on the 15th. Hopefully they'll expand that program...(maybe in time for Star Wars?) Wishful thinking.
Posted by Rachel Gilardi (Member # 4594) on 03-10-2002, 03:20 PM:
Ok, what if a local theater got an Art film (not an art house), but the film company pulled it because it was not doing so hot and sent it over to the local First Run Art House. Can the Art House still call it first run even though they will be getting it on its third week of running?
Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 03-10-2002, 08:01 PM:
Ok, a little piece of history behind the term first run. From what I have read that years ago when theaters used to play double feature bills. All new features played first and all other features played second. First run second run. This is also how trailers came about because they trailed the first feature. To answer your question Rachel, I would have to say yes because they are probably still following first run terms just not terms that would be set for on the break releases. There may be a better percentage handed out.
Posted by Rachel Gilardi (Member # 4594) on 03-11-2002, 02:03 AM:
Thanks everyone!
Posted by Adam Fraser (Member # 1074) on 03-11-2002, 09:31 PM:
My understaning of first run in at least our area is anything on national break, which is almost always a 4 week contract (only exception in memory is Joe Somebody which was 2 weeks, I am assuming it was only 2 weeks b/c it prob did not cost very much to make), somthing that is 2 weeks old and still doing ok is a 2 week contract and 3 weeks or older is usually a one week contract. But that all goes out the window if we do more than expected on a weekend, we get committed into another week by the dist. Also, any first run that is coming out we get if we book a few weeks ahead of time.------------------
Adam Fraser
www.pinestheatre.com
Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 03-12-2002, 01:27 AM:
Rachel,This isnt because we are getting "In The Bedroom" Is it???
------------------
--Sean McKinnon
Manager
Loews Cineplex Entertainment
Liberty Tree Mall 20
Danvers, Mass
www.enjoytheshow.com
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 03-12-2002, 07:55 AM:
I'm not sure of the official terminology, but personally I don't think that the first run/second run distinction really applies to art product, where a limited number of prints is made available. In most cases, these films open in a few major markets and then gradually make their way around the country (at least this is how it works in the US). Since the art distributors aren't completely saturating all markets on "opening weekend," art product is viable for a longer period of time than mainstream product.There's a huge difference in my mind between a 50-print release of an art title and an 8000-print release of "Harry Potter"...
Posted by Rachel Gilardi (Member # 4594) on 03-13-2002, 03:23 AM:
Hmmm, Sean....no it isn't. Considering I posted this question before you told me you were getting "In the Bedroom"....AND you are NOT getting "In the Bedroom". I'm sorry they gave it to the art house and not the big company... 
SORRY! *sniffle* 
Posted by Mike Spaeth (Member # 524) on 03-14-2002, 12:45 AM:
Adam: I don't know where the 4-week requirement is ... the following are films I played ON the break for fewer than 4 weeks.Black and White (16 days) - Sony
Where the Money Is (2 weeks) - USA Films
Ready To Rumble (3 weeks) - WB
I Dreamed of Africa (2 weeks) - Sony
The In Crowd (16 days) - WB
Loser (3 weeks) - Sony
Thomas and the Magic Railroad (16 days) - Destination
Bless The Child (2 weeks) - Paramount
Whipped (3 weeks) - Destination
Bait (3 weeks) - WB
Almost Famous (3 weeks) - Dreamworks
Blair Witch 2 (3 weeks) - Artisan
Sugar & Spice (3 weeks) - New Line
Valentine (2 weeks) - WB
3000 Miles To Graceland (3 weeks) - WB
15 Minutes (3 weeks) - New Line
Crazy/Beautiful (3 weeks) - BV
Mike: The reason you got some of those Fox movies ... sometimes they've gotta hit their 3,000 print count ... so that means playing just about everyone that will take a print.
Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 03-14-2002, 12:47 AM:
Rach Its ok, you are right I apologize. I misread the bookings sheet!!! Hey its ok if you guys get the art films we didnt do good with them, and we get every new release on the break so I am not upset ------------------
--Sean McKinnon
Manager
Loews Cineplex Entertainment
Liberty Tree Mall 20
Danvers, Mass
www.enjoytheshow.com
Posted by Adam Fraser (Member # 1074) on 03-14-2002, 02:04 PM:
Looking through your list, we did not get any of those movies. Any new movie we get is contracted to us for 4 weeks, as is so for the other theatres in this area. If we do really 
we can get out in three weeks but it usually takes some conversations between our booker and the distributer. The only movies that we choose to get on first run are the big ones though b/c as a 1 screen a movie like 3000 miles to graceland, where the money is, I dreamed of Africa or ready to rumble would not even hold up for 7 days in our market. The movies that we choose on first run are movies like Titanic, Men In Black, Harry Potter, Lord of The Rings, Independance Day, because those are the only ones that can be held over for more than one week in our small town of about 3000 people + people on vacation. ------------------
Adam Fraser
www.pinestheatre.com