This is topic Portable Mp3 Player in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by Jeremy Spracklen (Member # 18) on 03-16-2002, 03:11 PM:
I am looking to purchase a good portable MP3 player and am asking for some recommendations. It is important that this model is able to record straight from a stereo source. Also, are there any advantages to the removable memory cards over a large internal hard drive?Thanks.
Posted by Andy Muirhead (Member # 712) on 03-16-2002, 07:18 PM:
I dont know much about portable MP3 units, although what i do know is that if you are serious about portable audio, MiniDisc is the only solution quality-wise.
Posted by Josh Jones (Member # 447) on 03-16-2002, 07:56 PM:
I'll drop in another vote for the Minidisc option. I have heard the sharp machines are better than the sony, sony's being a little weak on the headphone volume and a little flimsy. so if you like it loud, get a sharp 
another thing is that a MD walkman will set you back about as much as a MP3 player, plus you have the option of recording and much longer playtime and quality. I dont know of any MP3 devices that can record.Josh
Posted by David Favel (Member # 1125) on 03-16-2002, 08:32 PM:
Some of the new generation cell phones have a built in mp3 player attached.
Warning, they are quite ruthless on batteries.
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 03-16-2002, 08:52 PM:
MiniDisc kicks ass. I use my Sharp portable to listen to when I am wearing headphones. It sounds 10 to 20 times better than any Sony player I've ever heard. Otherwise I use my full size Kenwood or Sony dual CD/MD decks. I use a Sony portable for acquisition of sounds I need to record in remote locations. It does a great job at recording. The new MiniDisc units offer MDLP, so you can record several hours on a disc, though the quality gets lowered somewhat. But it still sounds billions of times better than most 128kbps MP3s! Ug.I know the Apple iPod uses a 4 or 6 gig internal drive. It is much cheaper than memory cards, which are not cheap at all. If you have a Mac (who doesn't?) then the iPod would be the best way to go MP3 wise. Don't have a Mac? Just get MiniDisc. I have a Mac and still prefer MiniDisc.
Posted by Kelsey Black (Member # 126) on 03-17-2002, 12:35 AM:
I am the proud owner of a Creative Nomad Jukebox 20Gb. (overseas it's known as the DAP) It has a 20 Gb laptop hard drive (you can upgrade it to a 40, or whatever comes out that fits the 9.5mm space) it has headphone, and 2 line outs (you can configure them to be front/rear, parallel, or just one line out) and it has a line level stereo record at up to 16bit/48khz sampling rate uncompressed or you can record as MP3, but why would you want to if you have 20 gig?
Personally, if given the option, I prefer to go uncompressed, lossless as long as storage is not an isuue, and anything you do with a minidisc is going to be compressed with Sony's ATRAC scheme.
With this, you can playback WMA, MP3 or WAV formats, and it's flash upgradeable for other formats as Creative releases them (MP3pro and Ogg Vorbis have had quite some interest, I don't know where things are with the support as of writing...) And, you can use it to store any regular file, not just audio files, it's like having a 20Gig floppy with USB interface.
OTOH, (on the other hand) it does use batteries, AA NI-MH, but it also functions as a smart charger. a set of 4 fully charged 1800 mah batteries will go from full to dead in around 6 hours, so I keep 3 sets and the charger. It is heavier and bulkier than minidisc, or flash memory MP3 players, but it's only about the size of a portable CD player. And, as it comes from the factory and the EQ set flat, it lacks bass slightly from ~175 on down, but if you're both BOLD and DARING, you can change a small SMD capacitor inside it and get both more volume and nice bass without having to play with it's DSP EQ.
And the last thing i have to complain about it is that the one I have only has a USB interface, but if when I got mine I had known that Creative would be coming out with a new version that has firewire as well as USB ports, then I would have waited... but the thing still rocks.
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 03-17-2002, 01:25 AM:
Sounds like a cool unit (after user modification). I am too lazy to re-read your post, but does it have a microphone input jack? That would be essential. Also, all connections MUST be balanced. Nothing like huge ass XLR jacks everywhere. If it's not balanced audio, then it is not worth listening to. Balanced audio ROXORZZZZZ!!!!! The difference between balanced audio and unbalanced audio is similar to the difference between 65mm film and Fisher Price Pixelvision! I don't know how the DAC/ADC's are in Creative stuff. But I have heard that Creative Soundblaster sound cards are a far cry from "audiophile" quality.
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 03-17-2002, 09:50 PM:
Balanced lines are essential for long cable runs, but don't really do much for short runs.For live recording, a portable DAT machine is probably the device of choice. It takes a fair amount of CPU horsepower to do MP3 compression in real time and Minidisc has potential reliability issues. Maybe I'm paranoid, but I tend to think of MD as being more of a "cart-machine-replacement" format rather than a true high-quality recording format. DAT has a number of advantages here, particularly the higher-end modes which allow off-the-tape monitoring (like a 3-head analog tape recorder). Sony makes (made?) a DAT walkman thing that sells (sold?) for about $500. A used Nagra 1/4" machine (the Rolex of tape recorders) would be another option to consider. The only thing that you lose here is random access capability, which is a big deal for casual listening, but not a big deal for recording.
I guess that the decision really comes down to the relative importance of recording and playback capabilities.
Posted by Kelsey Black (Member # 126) on 03-17-2002, 10:28 PM:
No, the Nomad Jukebox doesn't have balanced, or mic level inputs. just stereo line-level rec input via a 1/8" mini.
Personally, I haven't used it to record anything yet, I haven't done audio production since I worked at the local radio station almost a year ago, and I don't go to concerts very often, so I haven't had the chance to make any bootlegs with it either.
IMO, leaving the record input as line level is a good thing, as the preamps in most consumer equipment sucks. It's better to leave the preamp section to the end user so that they can set the cost/quality scales as they wish.
For more info on the Nomad Jukebox, go to the Nomad website
Posted by Jeff Skallan (Member # 891) on 03-18-2002, 12:33 AM:
One more vote for MiniDisc! Sony claims that the magneto optical discs can be recorded over a million times without any degradation. The discs will not be affected by magnetic fields generated by TVs, speakers, etc. With the simplicity of dividing, merging and bouncing tracks around, it really makes things easy to organize music to your liking. MP3 players/recorders just seem silly to me compared to all the features MiniDisc provides. Sure there's a bit of audio compression, but I've yet to meet a person who can tell the difference in a blind test.
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 03-18-2002, 03:35 AM:
I agree with Jeff. Brad has gone on record saying that when SDDS is routed through a CP200 (bypassing the digital EQ) that it is his favorite sounding format. Know what the difference (other than the channel count) between SDDS and MiniDisc is? Nothing. Well sure, one is on film and has a back up track, etc etc etc. But both use the same ATRAC compression scheme. In fact MiniDisc has far fewer playback errors than any SDDS ever could no matter how well adjusted. Just the nature of the format. I am a total anal BASTARD and I think MiniDisc sounds GREAT!I am curious about these "potential reliability issues" spoken of above. MiniDisc has always worked great. I've had a unit or two die from overuse, but the discs themselves have always been great. In fact a friend of mine in Pittsburgh record on a MiniDisc and send it back and forth, re-recording new stuff on it each time and then the other guy listens to it extensively. This has been going on for several years now using the same disc. We've recorded it in some very funky ways.... stereo, mono, mixed, super shuffled around and split up, etc... The disc always runs great without a hiccup. EXTREMELY durable. You simply cannot say the same about ANY tape format.
Posted by John Schulien (Member # 215) on 03-18-2002, 01:21 PM:
I would only recommend DAT for live field recording. Both the tapes and mechanisms are just too fragile for casual use. I record a lot of live music, and standard practice is to make the field recording on DAT, then use a digital cable to upload the data to my PC, where I can edit it, insert track markers, and burn the music onto CDR. The DAT tape gets played once, then goes straight into the archive, where, assuming I don't damage or lose the CDR, it will probably never be played again.
Another upside to recording on DAT is that the tapes run 2 hours with no tape flip. In a live recording situation, you can tell the DAT tapers -- they're the ones sitting, with little smiles on their faces, watching the MD owners twitching their fingers, hoping that the band will end the song before the disc runs out, and pause long enough to change the cartridge.
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 03-19-2002, 07:51 PM:
This is a non-issue for either format if you happen to have two decks hooked up to the same microphone. Some concerts last longer than 2 hours and DAT users will still have to flip sides/tapes in the middle of a song. With two identical recorders hooked up to the same microphone, you just start recording on the second deck when it looks like deck #1 is getting low. While deck 2 is recording you switch MD's or DAT's in the first deck. Then you happily trot home where you upload them to your MAC via digital connection and make pirate copies!
Posted by John Lasher (Member # 968) on 04-16-2002, 06:53 PM:
Yet another vote for MiniDisc, I toured with a singing group in summers of 2000/2001, we used choral-trax transferred to MD, sounded fan-bloody-tastic. MP3 is okay though, but only at the higher bitrates, or better yet variable bitrate (when done right, i.e. 2 pass automatic.
Posted by Mike Olpin (Member # 1115) on 04-18-2002, 01:09 AM:
iLuv my iPod.it plays AIFF & WAV too!
Now available in 5gb or 10gb conifgs.