This is topic Windows XP problems in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 04-04-2002, 02:45 AM:
 
The computer at one of our theaters apparently was on a sleezy website, by whom, we don't know.

But, everything seems to run normally, but when "search" is clicked on the IE Explorer tool bar, at least 50 or more sleazy websites start loading automatically. Sometimes it is splattered so bad, the only way to stop the loading is by shutting down the computer.

I deleted all the cookies, all the crap in the history folder and temp internet files through IE toolbar internet options. I then performed a regedit, got into the Hotkey_Current_User/Software/Microsoft/Internet Explorer/Search URL, and deleted a weird entry in the data box of (default) Reg_5Z.

I then rebooted the computer, brought up IE, clicked search, and all that sleezy stuff started loading again.

Is there some other place in regedit I might have missed?

Is there a solution besides FORMAT C:\ ?

HELP!


 


Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-04-2002, 02:59 AM:
 
Yea, fdisk the sucker! reload it XP and then install a security camera system near the computer to catch whoever did it. I'm sure he or she will be back to it again! Did you try just doing a disk clean?
Mark @ GTS


 


Posted by Christopher Duvall (Member # 284) on 04-04-2002, 04:10 AM:
 
Got a couple of things for you...

1. Check the programs installed in Control Panel, you find something may have been installed.
2. Make sure your home page in the Internet options is blank or something you have chosen. I believe this may be your problem. One of those sleeze sites may have changed your home starting page. Much as Netscape has slowly turned to crap over the years, I use their Bookmarks as my home page.
3. Install a firewall that also controls privacy. I am using Zone Alarm Pro. It blocks cookies, pop-ups, banner ads and what ever you want it to do. For $40, it ain't a bad deal.

Sleeze and warez sites make their money through ads and spyware. These items are usually installed and placed by banners and pop-ups and sometimes without your permission. If your homepage was changed, the popups will automatically start and you will mouse-trapped because you shutdown 1 window and they will open 2. You get "phugged" pretty hard and they do not even kiss you or give you any lube.

I don't think this is just an XP thing either. I had the same thing happen with 95, 98, NT and XP. It takes only one wrong click...


 


Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 04-04-2002, 04:21 AM:
 
I agree that sounds like one of those porn sites used java or some kind of script in the page to automatically make their site your new home page. Of course the home page should be set to www.film-tech.com to ensure no bad things happen, but Scott hasn't finished writing the script to automatically change every visitor's home page permanently to Film-Tech, (and format those people's drives who try to change it).


 


Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 04-04-2002, 05:22 AM:
 
Brad--I'll get right on that. I'll also add lots of those lovely pop-up windows since everyone loves pop-ups and will be sure to visit the site more often.
 
Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 04-04-2002, 05:28 AM:
 
Reinstalling Windows and then putting security in place is the way I'd go. I don't know if XP has the same security features as W2K, but if it does then I'd do the following:

First off, create individual user IDs for everyone who is going to use it, and make those restricted user status. That will enable them to run all the software they like and save files they create with it, but they will not be able to alter any system settings or install any new software. This can also stop some viruses in their tracks too, because when they try to alter registry settings W2K recognises that the virus is trying to do something which a restricted user is not allowed to do, and tells it to phug off! Likewise, if a porno site attempts to run dodgy scripts or whatever, it will get the same response.

Assuming their browser is Windows Explorer, go to tools - internet options - security and disable all scripts and cookies by default. If there are some websites that your employees have to use in the course of their work, enter those as safe sites.

I'd also install both antivirus and firewall software which works in a W2K/XP pro multiuser environment and which enables you to configure the settings and does not allow restricted users to alter them (Zone Alarm is no good, because restricted users can change the settings and remove security protection once they're logged on). Norton Antivirus and Personal Firewall both fit the bill, but they do cost a bit.

You might like to give an administrator ID and password to the general manager of the site and give him/her strict instructions not to give it to anyone else (even if one of the site's employees claims to be an IT expert) or use it except in a dire emergency - e.g. there's a serious crash and (s)he needs to hire a local technician in. Either that or keep this information yourself and give it directly to another technician if need be.

Finally, I believe W2K/XP pro has system logging features which enable you to find out if another user has tried to do anything naughty, but I've never investigated them.

BTW, when reinstalling XP I'd format the hard disc as NTFS rather than FAT32 - its more resistant to file system errors and many boot sector viruses won't work with NTFS.
 


Posted by Christopher Santapaola (Member # 1015) on 04-04-2002, 07:18 AM:
 
Try this.

Good sugestion above. Check the uninstall (add/remove programs).

Try using the built in system restore and revert the computer to an earlier state.

IF ALL ELSE FAILS:

Download the install for IE from microsoft (and the install for netscape as a back up) and save it on your computer. Next (and I know you will hate this)uninstall ie all together and remove the keys that still refer to the now non existant ie program and use the earlier downloaded setup to install ie. Not 100% sure how XP will like this but it did work on earlier os'.


 


Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 04-04-2002, 08:09 AM:
 
Paul, there are lots of places you can miss, but there may be hope.

First, go to this guy's page and download the hosts file he has. http://www.smartin-designs.com/
It will redirect most ad site requests to your local machine.

Anyone with a dialup connection will find that by using this file they can cut site loading times significantly!

Next, go here: http://www.cexx.org/adware.htm
and start reading. Chances are very good that you have Blackstone or Winad or some other known adware that can be removed.

Look on Hotfiles or Cnet for AdAware by Lavasoft and run it.

Also, if no one has deleted the history files, you might be able to find the time the theatre numnuts logged onto the offending original site.
 


Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 04-04-2002, 06:06 PM:
 
OK, I got it back on its feet. I found out this problem existed as far back as December 17, 2001. Since then, someone installed Windows XP without clearing the problem of the splatter search, and it just carried it over.

I un-installed Windows XP, and discovered the problem did, in fact, exist. Since IE-6 had a few corrupted, missing and trunciated files, the repair tool basically said it was too far gone to repair it, and said re-install the product.

I re-installed IE-6 from the Microsoft website, and the problem seems to have gone away.

Thanks for the help, gents. The suggestions you offered were very helpful when coupled to the limited knowledge I have about some of these new fangled funky operating systems. It saved me alot of work!


 


Posted by Dave Williams (Member # 299) on 04-04-2002, 07:39 PM:
 
Just remember that Java is a very naturally hostile environment. In order to avoid any harch java code, I always have all the web browsers installed to deny all java code. Most users arent smart enough to bypass it if you can get it cut off. But there are a few that are.

I agree with the security camera bit. I had to install one once on my computer to find out who was breaking in at night to try and access my files.

Dave
 


Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 04-04-2002, 09:29 PM:
 
I'm with the other Dave. ONLY if you have some common sense and are the ONLY person using the computer, set all activeX and java selections in "security" to "prompt" except the "unsigned" and "unsafe" which you set "disabled".
Setting all of these to "allow" is asking for things like the avalanche of porno sites you describe, and much worse. A popular script changes your dial-up ISP number to a 1-900 type number in Africa or Asia - if you don't notice it dialling a lot of extra numbers you will pay $10.00 a minute and more for using the internet...
With the safer ones set to "prompt", you can individually allow scripts to run on sites you trust. Like, say, Microsoft Windows update pages. Disabling them all completely disables sites like that.
If you share the box, and can't risk having it screwed up, disable everything in activeX and Java anyway. If you still have problems you can make these settings very difficult to overide (but your 14 yr old nephew will do it in a minute).

This will still not stop some doofus downloading and running a loaded file.
Make sure in "folder options" you have "hide extensions of known file types" OFF! This little "feature" lets me send you a file named "i_am_not_a_virus.jpg.exe" and the computer will hide the .exe from you ... you only see the oh_yes_i_am_sucker.jpg file name (with a non-jpg icon but who looks at them) and I can do **anything** to your system if I can get you to open a .exe file. At least if the real extension is shown you won't accidentally open a .exe, .vbs, .shs, etc file... really you should only open any extension you know is safe like .txt!

The fact is even NT, 2K, and XP-Pro are rarely set up with any real security (but they can be), and it is absolutely impossible to get any security with any other windows version - you can hide things but almost any 14 year old knows how to get around that.
 


Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 04-07-2002, 01:29 PM:
 
I'm very much with Dave on his last paragraph. I've never used XP (I have a rule in life not to touch any new Microsoft product until it's been through at least two service packs), but NT4 and W2K can be installed and configured both to protect inexperienced users from the consequences of their own mistakes and to moronproof a PC against people who want to do something that you'd rather they didn't.

W2K with Service Pack 2 installed is also by far in a way the most stable Microsoft OS I've ever used. It's the nearest there's been to a Bill Gates product that I'd actually recommend!
 


Posted by Mike Olpin (Member # 1115) on 04-07-2002, 11:32 PM:
 
Try using one of theese instead.

 
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 04-08-2002, 12:47 AM:
 
I am using one of those. As much as I wish the Mac would become more popular, I kind of wish it wouldn't. The more popular an OS, the more people will be apt to write viruses and other BS for them.
 
Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 04-08-2002, 04:46 PM:
 
I was playing with some Macs this week, a big desktop running ProTools audio stuff and a powerbook. Lovely, lovely, lovely. Wish I could afford one. Imagine having a computer and OS that work together, not against easch other!
 
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 04-08-2002, 07:06 PM:
 
I'll add my obligatory list of Microsoft alternatives here. This is stuff that I'm personally familiar with and recommend:
http://www.sun.com/ http://www.linux.org/ http://www.freebsd.org/ http://www.netbsd.org/

These are all variants of Unix, which is a widely used and very powerful OS which runs on all sorts of hardware, ranging from a 386-based PC to a 100+ processor behemoth and everything in between. Joe can even run Linux or NetBSD on his Mac!
 


Posted by Mike Olpin (Member # 1115) on 04-08-2002, 07:51 PM:
 
Mac OS X is actually built on unix BSD.
www.apple.com/macosx/
 
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 04-08-2002, 08:06 PM:
 
Yeah, even Microsoft's products don't like each other.

A problem I ran into several times is that if it is possible to select the desired drive to boot from and those drives have different operating systems (such as Windows 98 on one and Windows ME on the other) problems can develop. After about 3 months, one of those drives is going to crash.

Apparently, one operating system will modify files in the other.

I found that if the drive that is not desired to boot from is turned off in the BIOS, the other drive will let it alone if either drive doesn't have anything higher than Windows ME.


 


Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 04-09-2002, 01:02 AM:
 
Commodore Amiga RuLeZzz
 
Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 04-09-2002, 03:22 AM:
 
Whilst I'm not trying to defend Bill Gates' woeful record of marketing bug-ridden (and in a few cases cases fundamentally defective) software, I do find the cult of Apple-worship a tad irritating.

Apple certainly has a small but loyal niche market, and I don't deny that for a few specialist applications (e.g. graphic design), Macs have a lot of good points. But they also have significant disadvantages, to wit:

Finally, if Apple really believes that its way is so darn superior, why doesn't it just market a version of Mac OS that'll run on normal PC hardware, perhaps on a separate partition of a hard disc? That way you could have Windows and MacOS running on the same machine, which would really give users a chance to evaluate Apple's claims about the performance of its OS on a level playing field.


 


Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 04-09-2002, 04:03 AM:
 
Obviously I must respond:

-The same software bundled with the Mac can be downloaded for free from the internet, so it does not raise the cost at all. Of course I don't know who wouldn't want free DVD burning software.

-Actually in the long run Macs cost less. When you consider the time you save getting stuff done sooner and less time fiddling and tweaking with the crappy Windows OS you do indeed come out ahead.

-They are better. I have a Mac and a Windows PC. My Windows PC runs an AMD processor that is rated at a faster clock speed than my Mac. My Mac blows it away when accomplishing the same tasks. There really is a difference! Take it from someone who owns both.

-That is a problem with Windows, not Mac. But honestly, I transfer files back and forth from PC to Mac and back all the time and never have a problem. JPG, MOV, XLS, DOC, AEP, BMP, TIF, PDF, PSD, Divx and countless of others are handled the same way on both machines. Only a moron would save a project as a Mac-specific or Windows-specific format to be transferred to a another machine.

-Most hardware peripherals work with both types of machines. For example I recently purchased a TDK CD-RW unit. It didn't specify "Mac" anywhere on the package or manual. But I put it in anyway and it was recognized and works fine and dandy.

I don't think the Mac OS would run very well on other processors, since it is built around the IBM/Motorola family chipset. Oh by the way you can run any flavor of Windows on a Mac with Virtual PC... and it runs pretty damn well, too! Not very expensive, considering.


 


Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 04-09-2002, 05:00 AM:
 
Joe writes:

quote:
-The same software bundled with the Mac can be downloaded for free from the internet, so it does not raise the cost at all. Of course I don't know who wouldn't want free DVD burning software.

It might be free at the point of download, but as it'll only run on a Mac you effectively paid for it when you bought the computer. It's not like 'freeware' downloadable for PC, which will run on hardware not produced and/or marketed by the company providing the software. That's a bit like saying, 'Garbage collection is free, so who wouldn't want their garbage collected from outside their house?' It overlooks the fact that it's not free: it's just that you pay indirectly, through taxes, rather than by directly paying the man in the dust cart when he collects the sacks.

quote:
Most hardware peripherals work with both types of machines. For example I recently purchased a TDK CD-RW unit. It didn't specify "Mac" anywhere on the package or manual. But I put it in anyway and it was recognized and works fine and dandy.

What would you have done if it hadn't? At least with PC products the box says 'works with W9X, 2K, XP' or whatever, and if it doesn't then you take it back and get a refund. Whenever I've had to help people add new hardware to Mac setups, I've taken the new printer/PCI card/whatever to the information desk at whatever computer store and asked if it is Mac compatible. The response has usually been either 'no' or 'I don't know, buy it at your own risk.' You argue that:

quote:
When you consider the time you save getting stuff done sooner and less time fiddling and tweaking with the crappy Windows OS you do indeed come out ahead.

Exactly the same applies with upgrading. This all boils down to what is more important to the user, reliability or flexibility? If you want a pretty looking designer object that will do a limited range of tasks very reliably and are willing to pay a premium for something that is virtually crashproof, then Macs are probably the way to go. If you want flexibility and the ability to tweak and change your computer according to what your needs are and do not have an unlimited budget then I'd go for a PC anytime, Microsoft warts and all.


 


Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 04-09-2002, 06:23 AM:
 
I'll mention quickly that there is a lot more to "performance" than the clock speed of a particular processor. For most PC/Windows users, system performance is bound by disk I/O, not processor speed, due to both the crappy IDE disks that OEMs tend to ship and the lousy NTFS filesystem that MS ships. Graphics performance is also an issue, although it is becoming less significant now as graphics cards become cheaper and better. I don't know much about Macs, but it is entirely possible that their hardware designs are more "balanced" than most PC designs and have fewer performance bottlenecks built in.

There's also the issue of how well the OS deals with process management. At least in the Unix world, I would personally rather have a dual- (or quad-) processor machine with moderate clock speed than a super-fast single-processor machine.


 


Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 04-09-2002, 06:38 AM:
 
In my experience, hard disc I/O only has a direct effect on processing throughout in systems with insufficient RAM - therefore Windows is constantly using hard disc space as 'virtual memory' (swap files in 9X parlance, page files in NT/2K/XP), which will, as you point out, slow down the whole shebang.

Again, you could argue that this is a fault of OEMs, who tend to ship ready-assembled systems with less memory than today's applications typically need. This is especially stupid because SDRAM is so cheap that the cost of shipping PCs with 512mb is not, comparatively speaking, very much more than with 128 (although admittedly, the price has gone up a bit in the last couple of months).

But for people building their own PCs who know what they need and how to assemble it, this really isn't an issue. On a system with, say, an 80gb ATA100 disc and 1gb of SD133 RAM, it'll load (under W2K with memory management settings configured accordingly) 500mb into RAM and work on it without reading from or writing to any hard disc. Even files of several tens of gigabytes can be handled without any undue delay caused by disc activity. This might be more storage than a Mac would need to achieve a similar level of performance, but this is more than offset by the lower cost of the hardware which results from being able to put a system together from scratch with a specific application in mind.


 


Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 04-09-2002, 10:10 AM:
 
Well for what I use my computer for:

-Graphics Design
-Video Acquisition/Editing/Export
-Animation
-Sound Processing
-Music Composition/Arrangement
-Web Surfing
-Web Design
-Word Processing
-E-mail
-Graphic and Sound viewing/listening
-FTPing
-Printing

I couldn't see a reason to own a PC as a sole computer. I have heard that PC's need to be built for a specific task, such as video editing, and that computer can't be used for anything else if you want to keep it working at peak performance. Not the case with Macs... you get more for your money.

And yes, those programs ARE freeware. I purchased my machine 4 years ago and was able to download all of the included programs for free when they were introduced, including any updates. None of them came with my Mac. Are you saying that they are not freeware since they only work on the Mac? That's what it sounds like you are saying. That makes no sense.

Just try to accept the fact that some people own Macs and that they like them. They don't need your approval or anyone else's. Very few Mac owners are unsatisfied. Leave us alone. Have a nice day.


 


Posted by Mike Olpin (Member # 1115) on 04-09-2002, 12:11 PM:
 
----LET THE HOLY WARS BEGIN!------

Over the years, there have been more than a few misconceptions about Macs. Let’s take a look at some of the most popular ones.


Myth 1: Everyone uses Windows.
Fact: If you’re an accountant, you’re most likely surrounded by beige Wintel boxes. But if you work in nearly every creative field, you most likely use a Mac. Like in graphic arts, advertising and publishing. Or in Hollywood. Or in science-based industries like biotech. Or in education, where half of the computers are Apples. Or if you are President of the United States (our two most recent presidents, a Democrat and a Republican, both use Macs). Even 25% of America’s lawyers use Macs. In all, over 25 million people use Macs in their homes, offices and schools every day.

Myth 2: Macs don’t work with PCs.
Fact: Simply untrue. Every day millions of documents, emails and instant messages are sent between Macs and PCs. Word documents, Excel spreadsheets and PowerPoint presentations exchanged. Emails delivered and instant messages shuttled back and forth. This isn’t news because it happens silently, daily, with no fanfare. That’s because all Macs are designed to work seamlessly with PCs and connect into PC networks to easily access files and folders. The rest of the world should get along so well.

Myth 3: The software I need isn’t available for Macs.
Fact: There are over 15,000 applications available for the Mac, in every category imaginable. Productivity programs from Microsoft Office to FileMaker. Design programs from Photoshop to Maya. Filmmaking tools from Final Cut Pro to After Effects. Finance programs from Quicken to MYOB. And games from The Sims to Tony Hawk. But if you do encounter that rare program which isn’t available for Mac, you can still run it right on your Mac using Virtual PC. Still think there’s something you’re missing? Go to www.apple.com and check for yourself. We promise not to say, “we told you so.”

Myth 4: Macs don’t run Microsoft Office.
Fact: Quite the opposite. Not only does a brand new version of Microsoft Office run on the Mac, but — Office v.X for Mac OS X is actually better than its Windows cousin, with features available only on the Mac. Microsoft Office documents are fully compatible between Mac and Windows. So when you create an Excel spreadsheet or a Word document or a PowerPoint presentation on a Mac, you can send it to someone with a PC and it will open perfectly. And vice versa.

Myth 5: Windows has caught up with the Mac.
Fact: It can’t be denied that Microsoft has made a good business out of copying the innovative Mac OS. And, truth be told, Windows XP is their best effort to date. But Mac OS X has sent them back to the drawing boards. Particularly with respect to graphics, everything digital (like music, movies and photography), ease of use and elegance. In other words, all the things that make a state-of-the-art operating system, well, state-of-the-art. And we’re not the only ones who think so. Consider critics like the Detroit Free Press, who recently proclaimed: “The new OS X for Mac runs circles around Windows XP.” Or ZDNet’s David Coursey, who praises Mac OS X as “The nicest operating system I’ve ever seen.”

Myth 6: Macs are far easier to use than PCs. Guilty as charged.

From www.apple.com/myths/

 


Posted by Mike Olpin (Member # 1115) on 04-09-2002, 12:13 PM:
 
You NEED to spend a few minutes to watch This Video. (QuickTime Format)

 
Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 04-09-2002, 03:36 PM:
 
Joe - I do accept that some people are Mac devotees and get 100% satifaction from their computers, and I have no problem with this whatsoever. It's when they start suggeting that people who use PCs are by definition retards that I start smelling a rat.

quote:
Are you saying that they are not freeware since they only work on the Mac? That's what it sounds like you are saying. That makes no sense.

That is what I'm suggesting, and the rationale is that the software is not truly 'free' because it only has any value if it is used with hardware that can only be purchased from Apple. When you bought that computer four years ago, part of what you paid for would have been invested by Apple to pay the software developers and fund the third-party R & D which eventually resulted in that software being available free at the point of download. I'm not saying that's wrong or even that it makes the machine a rip off - if you wan't to buy a support environment such as that one I'm sure that Apple provide it very efficiently. But neither does it mean that all Windows users are morons.


 


Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 04-09-2002, 09:43 PM:
 
I've been using Macs since 1984....

By far, the bulk of anthing I've wanted to run has run on my Macs. In those rare instances there was only a WinDoz solution, I ran it on SoftPC or Virtual PC. Cutting/pasting between the two environments is a nice feature of the PC emulation.

As to value...I've owned two computers in my entire life...a MacSE/30 and an iMac. The only cheat in the above was the SE/30 started life as an SE. Anyway...both computers are running and the SE/30, built in the 1980s is still a functional computer doing just fine (and it emulates a PC as well). I have found that I am just more productive on the Macs than on PCs...we have PCs at work. When in college, I even programed PCs on my Mac. So how many PC owners out there still do serious work with their 15 year old PCs?

Oh, and my Imagewriter II (dot matrix) is still in use printing my Quicken checks.

I don't have any complaints about the Apple value or reliability. And if I ever want to see PC problems, I can just emulate them Actually, I have found that Soft PC and Virtual PC's crash less too!

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
 


Posted by Steven Gorsky (Member # 603) on 04-09-2002, 11:36 PM:
 
First I'm going to say that Mac, Windows, SGI, Sun, etc. all have their places in the computer industry. About myth number 5 above, Apple and Microsoft both copied Xerox, whose management didn't have enough vision to market a GUI (graphical user interface) OS, and several other things.

Now, I have worked as a Workstation Support Tech, and basically Windows will behave under Windows NT/2000 if the user only requires Office and e-mail, and not much else - they're not programing, constantly changing programs, or the configuration.

This is why home users are SOL. Unix/Linux won't run all their games/educational software (WINE helps some), NT/2000 aren't supported for most games/educational software (DirectX and driver support), and they've used Windows so long they don't won't to switch platforms.

Steven Gorsky

P.S. Old PCs seem to be delegated to running Linux, or computer controlled contraptions.


 


Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 04-10-2002, 12:37 AM:
 
Steve, I just discovered something else. Windows ME started running slower than hell in my 733mhz with over 300 megs of RAM. It started that when the CPU blower started to go south. Maybe that was just a coincidence.

Anyway, I switched boot up drives, (a 40 gig drive) and re-loaded ME and all the other programs I need, minus a few funky ones I don't need.

I think I might have made an error. I copied an entire directory about 2 gigs worth of pictures, MOV's, AVI's, etc. to the boot drive. Then, I made a new directory, and eliminated all the duplicate stuff from the 2 gig directory. The new directory turns out to be about 1.3 gigs.

Then, I deleted the entire 2 gig directory, and copied a 10 gig directory of wav files, and a 800 meg directory of MP3 files from the old boot drive.

When I finished, the machine seems to run very nicely, boots up fast, etc. So, I decided to defrag the drive. I started to defrag it about 6 hours ago, and it is still munching on it.

If I watch it, it will go through its sequence, then after shoveling crap around, it quits.....like it is talking to itself and saying, "This shit won't fit" and starts over again. It has been doing that since I started the defrag program, and it has finally reached the 79% complete mark. I would suspect it will want to munch on it for another two hours or more before it is finished.

I think I stuffed too much data down its throat.

I wonder if it will work when it is finished defragging.


 


Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 04-10-2002, 12:21 PM:
 
Paul, Defragging can take a LONG time, depending on the drive's performance, etc. Let it finish.

ME vs. 2000 vs. XP: As someone else said, Windows 2000 Professional with Service Pack 2 is amazingly stable. When I was working at Dynamix (game developer), all our programmers and artists ran on Win2K and I can count the number of blue-screen crashes on the thumb of one hand (and that turned out to be a Novell client driver issue, not a Windows issue). I'm running XP Home Version on this PC, and so far it has been perfectly stable for me as well.

Macintoshes: I confess I am Windows through and through. But my Dad bought himself an iMac when they first came out. It was his first computer, so he had no experience with it at all. I went over to his place and helped him get it going. I supported a half-dozen or so Macs at Dynamix, so I was not unfamiliar with the OS. Well, helping him get acclimated to that machine reinforced my belief that the Mac OS is NOWHERE NEAR as intuitive as current implementations of Windows. I could not for the life of me figure out how to do simple tasks like cutting and pasting text from one app to another. That's just one example too. There were other things. Try configuring network settings for example. I could almost never find any help in the help system either. It was a very frustrating experience. Yes, I'm corrupted by Windows, but damn it, don't tell me how easy and intuitive the Mac OS environment is because you're talking to deaf ears. You Mac users are just as guilty of being brainwashed as us Windows users.

 


Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 04-10-2002, 01:53 PM:
 
David, the 40 gig boot drive is a Maxtor UDMA 7200RPM Drive, using the correct ribbon cable. it has 18 gigs of data, and 22 gigs of free space. It took about 9 hours to defrag it after everything was installed. When it was done, I re-booted, and it immediately went into a scandisk mode. When it was finished, it booted normally. The computer is running fine.

I just thought 9 hours was excessive - even for the first time.
 


Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 04-10-2002, 02:07 PM:
 
Paul, yes, 9 hours seems long, maybe too long. Must have had a whole lot of very small files or something, I don't know.

More about Macintoshes: Mac users brag about the stability of their systems compared to Windows. Give me a break! Those early iMacs should never have gone into production. They were notoriously unstable. Steve Jobs' "Cube" system was plagued by overheating problems. My Dad's iMac still, to this day, freezes up on him several times a week, and all he does with it is web surfing and occasionally printing stuff out. That's it! He isn't running multiple applications or doing anything exotic. The hardware has been swapped, the firmware is up to date, yadda yadda, but it still likes to lock up. Apple support kept insisting "Oh, you just need more RAM, or the latest OS patch, the problem is your printer, blah bhal". The Macs we ran at Dynamix were no more reliable than WinTel systems. It makes no difference if the problem is in the hardware or the software, to the user it's an unstable work platform.



 


Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 04-10-2002, 04:31 PM:
 
Paul:
During defragging, the system might do a disk write - LOTS of normally running programs do, from MSupdate to sound card utilities. Defrag is designed as a background process and must allow the system to do other stuff. Every time there's a disk write defrag has to start all over again, as it takes a sort of snapshot of the drive to plan what it's going to do... and if the disk is modified that snapshot is invalid. That sounds like what you describe.
Fine if you actually run it as background. If you want to just let the machine chug away on its own, halt all nonessential processes.
ctrl-alt-del brings up a list of most running programs, you only really need explorer. If you "end task" all the rest defrag will run without the stuttering you describe. A program called "taskinfo" http://www.iarsn.com/index.html#/download.html will let you see ALL running programs (they can hide from the ctrl-alt-del list) and you can end tasks one at a time without having to ctrl-alt-del again for every one (I tend to do it twice in a row occasionally and force a shutdown...).
Running defrag in safe mode works too, but you will get slower disk performance (= longer time defragging) if you have ATA66/100/133 drives - a driver is needed for more than ATA33 speed and safe mode doesn't load drivers. Drives on offboard adapter cards (like Promise ATA cards or even some SCSI cards) may not even be available to see or defrag in safe mode.


 


Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 04-10-2002, 04:43 PM:
 
Dave, from the time I started Defrag until the time it finished, I didn't even touch the keyboard or mouse. I didn't want to interfere with its process in the slightest.

What puzzled me is that in addition to the excessiv time it took, scandisk initiated when I booted up (the computer was shut down properly). I wonder if defrag might have been working around a lost file....I don't know.

Maybe it is a gentle hint of an impending drive failure. What do you think?
 


Posted by Steven Gorsky (Member # 603) on 04-10-2002, 07:36 PM:
 
Paul, Dave M. is correct - programs running in the background might decide to become active, and perform disk writes, which interupts the defrag. These background programs might not have an icon idicating the're running. Sometimes Windows will decide to try to do other maintenance tasks itself, even when defrag is running, which also interupts it.

BTW of all the Windows 9x OSs, ME is the worst. If you really need to run a 9x version of Windows I recommend 98 Second Edition. For NT like others have said, use 2000 with Service Pack 2.

Steven Gorsky
 


Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 04-10-2002, 09:01 PM:
 
Dave and Steven, I never thought about shutting down all the programs running in the background. There was probably a bunch of them. Next time I defrag, I'll do just that.

Thanks for the info.


 


Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 04-11-2002, 09:08 AM:
 
Agreed. The original iMacs suck. My dad has one and it seems to work OK, but it does some really weird things that it shouldn't do from time to time. I've never really argued the stability issue of Mac OS, since it DOES crash on me (I push it damn hard). OS X has only ever crashed on me once, though, and that was the public beta. When the Mac OS does crash though (OS 9) all you have to do is a simple reboot and everything is usually running back to normal.

Dynamix, eh? I owned one of their games for the awesome 3DO game system back when it was popular. Oh wait it was NEVER popular! It had Michael Dorn in it. I assume you met him since his voice was in the game and you were credited as "Dude who recorded Michael Dorn's voice".
 


Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 04-11-2002, 11:15 AM:
 
Joe, that 3DO title must be Stellar 7 or something like that. Are you sure my name is in the credits? I didn't have anything to do with that game. I'll bet it was David Aughenbaugh. I think he worked in the group that did all the audio stuff for our games back then.

 
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 04-11-2002, 11:32 AM:
 
Yes, it specifically said "That dude who likes pinball machines and will eventually post on Film-Tech once it is implemented." It was Stellar 7. The only thing I really remember about that game is the chest pounding bass that was emmitted from my subwoofer-less system every time the cannon was fired. Amazing sound effects.
 
Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 04-11-2002, 12:08 PM:
 
Back in those days, we did almost all of the music and sound effects in-house. Ken Rogers probably did the sounds effects (no, not Kenny Rogers). We had a couple full-time professional musicians composing and performing the music. Also a full-time photographer (I mean photographs, not videos). For games like Aces of the Pacific, Red Baron, etc. we had a full-time historian! For AotP, they sent a group to Japan to interview surviving Japanese pilots (on video). This stuff was fascinating and of historical importance. Wonder what happened to all that footage.

Later, after the big bad new corporate owners came along, they decided all this stuff could be outsourced, so they let all the sound & music people go. But we did keep a video production department, headed by a guy named Jim Carey (no, not THAT Jim Carrey). That video group did some amazing work. Dynamix video stuff was the envy of the rest of the company. That group is still working for the new owner (Vivendi Universal) in Bellevue.

Sorry, probably more than you wanted to know.


 






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