This is topic Windows ME keeps reboothing. in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 08-14-2002, 02:52 PM:
 
Windows ME tries to load. It loads as far as the Desktop window, then promptly reboots itself and comes up in the "safe mode". A "restore to a previous date" does not cure the problem.

I think there is a registry problem or a damaged/missing file. This is happening on Josh's computer, and I remember it happening on one of my machines several months ago. I don't remember what I did to fix it.

Any suggestions?

Thanks - Paul


 


Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 08-14-2002, 04:30 PM:
 
This might help with troubleshooting it:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;[LN];Q267288

They don't say it explicitly, but you would probably have to use Safe Mode to switch the system to "clean boot mode" in the article above.

Does the reboot happen at the instant the display switches from the Windows ME "splash screen" to the Windows desktop? Or does the desktop stay up for some time while other things are still starting? Is there any sign of an error msg on the screen at the instant the reboot happens?
 


Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 08-14-2002, 05:07 PM:
 
Have any display settings been changed?
 
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 08-14-2002, 05:41 PM:
 
Thanks, gentlemen.

I talked with another computer "expert", and he indicated there could be a hardware issue. This person suggested letting it come up in the "Safe Mode" (which it will do) and unload the drivers for the plug-in cards and re-start. If it comes up like it is supposed to, it'll find new hardware and re-install the drivers. Probably fresh drivers would be in order.

I would also think that if it is a hardware issue, Josh can unload all the drivers for the cards, (including the video card) and remove all cards with the exception of the graphics card itself. Then re-install them one by one and load the drivers from the disks provided by the device manufacturer. He should also make sure the computer is physically unplugged from the power receptical while removing or installing the cards. If not, the contact potential could fry a card.

Josh, DON'T format the drive...yet. You may not need to do that. I'll help you through the troubleshooting tonight if you would like. I am confident we can solve the problem without formating the drive.

Darryl, as far as I know, he did not change any of those settings.

Any other suggestions are welcome.

Thanks - Paul


 


Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 08-14-2002, 06:28 PM:
 
Get XP.
 
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 08-14-2002, 06:47 PM:
 
XP has so damn many security holes that I would not touch it with a 10 foot pole.

Windows 2000 Professional is the way to go.
 


Posted by Jason Black (Member # 684) on 08-14-2002, 07:17 PM:
 
I'll 2nd that about WK2 Pro. Solid as a rock, like a Chevy.
 
Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 08-14-2002, 08:55 PM:
 
It could be a video driver since windows can run in safe mode with the lowest resolution driver on the system. Sometimes a video setting can be changed to a driver that may not perform correctly with the monitor on his computer. A sort of hicup in the system. Those XP security holes are getting found and fixed. Unfortunatly you get stiuck with XP when you purchase off the shelf bundles.
 
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 08-15-2002, 12:32 AM:
 
Darryl:

Yes....seems as I now recall that this same problem Josh is having was a driver issue when it happened to me. I stated earlier that I could not recall what I did to fix it. Well, it was a driver problem.

Removing the drivers and re-installing fresh drivers from the the disks was the cure. Apparently, a driver got corrupted, and there was a hardware collision.

I think we are on the right path now. I am confident that if Josh removes the drivers, and then pulls the cards and re-installs them one by one, he'll have the computer back on its feet in short order. However, it does not look like he will be able to do that until tomorrow.

Thanks for the help, gentlemen. It is very much appreciated.


 


Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 08-15-2002, 01:37 AM:
 
EXCELLENT slip on that topic, Paul.
 
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 08-15-2002, 01:45 AM:
 
William, sometimes people say something that jogs my memory back into shape. I wish I could remember everything that I experienced, but it is just not possible.
 
Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 08-15-2002, 02:04 AM:
 
I would 'third' going for W2K pro and avoiding XP like the plague because of security issues. Two caveats, though: (i) be sure to install service pack 2 and the security rollout package, and (ii) although W2K does not need significantly more hard disc space than a typical 9x installation, it does need a lot more RAM. 64mb really is a bare minimum and even then it'll be using the pagefile all the time. I have a gigabyte of RAM and even then, it's used up 150mb by the time everything in the sytsem tray has loaded (and apart from the usual crap, the only background tasks I keep running are Norton Antivirus and Zone Alarm).

W2K, IMHO, is far more reliable than 9x in dealing with hardware wobbles such as Paul's: in such a situation it would just put an 'X' against the problem device in the device manager screen and would not let this issue pull the whole OS down.


 


Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 08-15-2002, 02:17 AM:
 
Leo, I think W2K Professional is an excellent platform. I have it installed in this computer I am using, and it has not crashed or locked up yet. Lock-ups and crashes seem to be the normal with 95. Win 98 was a little more reliable than 95, and ME was better than 98. XP is more stable that 98, but I have experienced crashes and lockups with it at a much lesser degree. W2K Pro is by far the best of Microsoft's Operating Systems. Driver compatibility no longer seems to be a critical issue with this platform. Drivers are available through the hardware vendor as well as Microsoft themselves for the most part. All of my crap in this machine dates back a couple of years now. I was able to obtain current drivers for everything except that cheap scanner of mine. Visioneer did not offer updated drivers for the model I had. But that's OK, I can still use it in my Windows ME machine.

Let it be said that any computer I build from the ground up will have the W2K Prof platform using the NTFS drive format. I am sold on it.

Finally, Microsoft came out with something that actually works since MSDOS 6.22 on the old XT's.


 


Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 08-15-2002, 04:54 AM:
 
Service Pack 3 for Windows 2000 is out now, but think carefully: by installing it you would be agreeing to a change in the license agreement which would allow M$ to obtain significant amounts of information about your machine. Isn't abuse of monopoly power a wonderful thing?


 


Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 08-15-2002, 06:06 AM:
 
Hmm... sounds like they've cottoned on to the fact that lots of people are sticking to W2K due to security issues with XP, and are now trying to introduce those security issues into W2K.

At the moment my machine, together with all the hardware and software on it, works fine under W2KSP2. So as it ain't broke, I don't intend to fix it.
 


Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 08-15-2002, 07:37 AM:
 
And then there is the obligitory but never wanted smart-ass "shoulda bought a Mac" response and use OS X

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
 


Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 08-15-2002, 09:33 AM:
 
We have Macs with OS X at work and they crash and hang a lot! Really!
Michael
 
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 08-15-2002, 12:35 PM:
 
Actually, I'm running on OS 9.2 but newer is always better, right? I can't remember the last time I crashed on it. While running Virtual PC (5) and emulating Win98SE, DOS6.2, Win3.11 I have FAR fewer crashes than on real PCs! Why? I haven't a clue. One would think a software emulation would be more buggy.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
 


Posted by Josh Jones (Member # 447) on 08-16-2002, 10:33 AM:
 
Dont ask me why, but it magicaly started working again last night. Booted up as if nothing happened

Oh well, thats windows for you.....

Josh
 


Posted by Will Morrow (Member # 792) on 08-16-2002, 12:10 PM:
 
What is the difference between XP Pro and 2000??? Especially if I am using NTFS under XP Pro? One thing about my system is that I added a PNY256 meg chip and now it freezes up. I have never had a problem with PNY RAM. My g/f is exchanging it for a new chip today in hopes that it was just a bad one. Before this addition, I don't think my XPBox ever frose up on me.

Any comments are appreciated.

 


Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 08-16-2002, 12:24 PM:
 
Steve,
many Windows crashes and lock-ups are caused by conflicting programs accessing the hardware at the same time. So it`s not really surprising that Virtual PC runs more stably because it is embedded in the Mac OS. Which itself has less problems with hardware access conflicts since the Macs are so standardised.
By the way, I may have exaggerated our problems with OS X just a little bit. The point is, it did lock up sometimes, which is especially annoying when you call your Mac-fanatic pals for advice and all you get is "that can`t be, Macs don`t crash".
A friend ran the SDDS setup on his powerbook with Virtual PC under OS X using a USB/serial port adapter and it worked very well. That was very impressive, especially since the setup software doesn`t run under Windows XP. But with his solution, he could have the latest OS on his powerbook and still run older programs. I agree there is a lot to be said for the Mac.
Michael
 
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 08-16-2002, 12:38 PM:
 
Josh, if that thing goes flakey again, check the CPU blower. If the CPU gets too hot, the computer will have a very shitty day.

Michael, I agree a MAC is a good machine. However, there are hundreds and hundreds of programs that you can buy for it. With DOS and Windows, there are thousands and thousands.

I also agree with you about the conflict problems. If the programs are written well and installed properly, the PC can be extremely reliable.

Case at point: We use the Pristine "Rapid Fire" program in our on-air and production room computers at the radio station. These computers have not been shut down for over a year now, and they still run flawlessy. It is a MS-DOS based program. Other radio stations report the same reliability. About once a month, we are supposed to defrag the drives, but that never seems to get done. The program seems to be bulletproof.

I might add this: Many instability problems of the PC's are due to incorrect BIOS set-up. Many IBM clone builders just snatch the system board out of the box, screw it down, and add all the shit. They don't go through the Advanced BIOS settings to set it up properly. Then they run like crap! Then I have to mention third and fourth party software. Some of that stuff is so poorly written, it'll make anything crash. With some of this rottin' software people jam into their computers, it is a wonder the computers run at all!

Those who build them and set up the Advanced BIOS Settings correctly will have a very fine machine.


 


Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 08-16-2002, 07:17 PM:
 
That`s right, and setting up the BIOS properly is really what seperates the men from the boys. Nowadays, with graphic user interfaced operating systems, everyone thinks he is a computer expert because he can click around. I also agree that often it`s badly written programs which mess up the system. People install lots of programs, test versions, shareware etc. which suffocate the system. In many cases I found that having a good program to check and clean the registry solved all the problems when people were already prepared to completely reinstall the OS.
It has also to be remembered that all the Windows versions are operating systems for machines based on an open industry standard. There are literally millions of different configurations. So sometimes I think it`s a miracle that it works at all.
Michael
 
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 08-17-2002, 12:20 AM:
 
Scott, I just checked Microsoft's Windows 2000 update website. It contains no "Service Pack 3" update.

Beware, people. It could have been someone with a Microsoft update look-alike page looking for information in your computers. I have seen this happen once about 4 years ago. I questioned it immediately, and the ISP provider launched an immediate investigation. (AOL)


 


Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-17-2002, 10:55 AM:
 
I happen to like XP Pro. Donno about XP home version though. XP Pro networks really well and is rock solid. Don't have any scandisk stuff in you accidentally power down either. Still has defrag though and disk clean to keep data in order. Since XP Pro and Win 2000 are all 32 bit OS's you will see alot more speed out of your machine. The main problem with Win2000 is the lack of drivers for older hardware. I've found that with XP Pro there are about ten times more drivers available. Also XP Pro is VERY user friendly.

As far as Microsoft looking into your computer goes, how about all you that have high speed internet access. Your computer has probably been hacked many times from the head end without you even knowing it. I think Microsofts looking at serial numbers of your OS, motherboard types, and CPU's is pretty lame in itself. Sure its stupid, but not nearly as bad as someone at your ISP looking at all those X rated photos you have stored on your drive. In some areas that CAN get you in trouble. A firewall should easily keep any snoopers out and anyone with HS IPS service should have a fiewall to prevent this.

MAC is good for alot of things but its uses are far more limited due to lack of software and hardware.

Mark


 


Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 08-17-2002, 01:35 PM:
 
I read somewhere that the FBI has some very powerful software that will penetrate the highest security levels imaginable, even the encrypted stuff. I guess it looks at the keystrokes, and gets converted into useful information.

Putting and keeping "X" rated pictures in the PC's is not cool for the reason Mark stated. I have also been told that even if they are deleted, they are still there somewhere in the drive, even if the recycle bin is emptied. Remember the old "undelete" command DOS used? Well, I am sure there are more powerful ways available today. Someone also told me there is software that can dig into the hard drive 10 or more layers deep to see what was on the drive.

When I installed W2KP in this machine, the installation found the second drive I had turned off in the system BIOS. I had to physically unplug the IDE cable from that drive to continue installation. W2KP did not want to install anything because that second drive had a different version of windows that it did not like.

If the CPU Serial Number option is turned off in the BIOS, I have been told that XP will still find it through the back door.

Beware of the modems and LAN cards - they have little feetprints imbedded, too!


 


Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 08-17-2002, 01:42 PM:
 
Use OS2Warp and it will be rock stable 32 bit
the only problem is getting newer drivers and software but in reality there are good office suites available for it and the best one Star Office is free download
 
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 08-17-2002, 06:30 PM:
 
The software/hardware issue on the Mac has and always will be there. Then again, with VPC, you have a way to run WinDoze stuff as well. As for hardware, with both platforms pretty much using the same I/O (USB, Firewire, Ethernet...etc.), that issue has been pretty much addressed.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
 


Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 08-17-2002, 06:47 PM:
 
Windows 2000 Service Pack 3

I've installed it on several machines at work with no problems.

-dave


 


Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 08-17-2002, 07:02 PM:
 
David, I guess that makes it official, then. Thanks. I'll probably install it after I read the fine print.
 
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-17-2002, 07:57 PM:
 
Paul,
Get back to us all and let us know what the fine print actually says after your office full of attorneys decode it . Should we give you say a couple of months or so?
Mark


 


Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 08-18-2002, 12:14 AM:
 
Mark, it looks like too many things could go wrong if SP3 is installed, but I am going to try it anyway. I have a back-up computer if this one gets lunched. I don't see any problems with the legal BS, as I am the registered user. It is not a bootlegged disk or program I am using.

I just used the express installation. After it looked my computer over, it didn't install anything. I guess all the updates, patches, and fixes were current to begin with.



 


Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 08-26-2002, 02:14 AM:
 
The jury is in. Windows 2000 Professional is the way to go on a PC. It just beats the hell out of 95, 98, ME, and XP.

It is nice to be able to come into my computer room after several days, jiggle the mouse, and not having to see some half-butted error message and/or a total loss of keyboard functions. It is ready and waiting to go!

W2K Prof in this machine has not crashed yet. I am very impressed! All my programs work, and all the drivers work. I can multi-task up the butt, and W2K Prof just seems to ask for more to do. Jeeze, at one time I had 5 things running on each monitor, and it still ran smooth as silk.


 


Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 08-26-2002, 06:38 AM:
 
Hmm.. sad as this may seem, I think I'm going to look at the licence BS very carefully before installing SP3. Having looked through the technical specs, there are some glitches in the hardware abstraction layer which have affected me (mainly hangs caused by IRQ issues to do with my video capture card) which it seems like SP3 will fix. But if this means having to give Microsoft the legal right to take personal details from my machine and sell them to junk mail companies, Nigerian con merchants and goodness knows how many other people, that's not a price I'm willing to pay.

As for the security issue, I can well believe that if the security services really want to access your hard disc remotely while you're online, then they have the means to do it. They can also listen in to your 'phone conversations and track your whereabouts using the signal from your mobile 'phone, too. I guess you have to accept that the right to privacy can be restricted to a certain extent in the name of public safety. But there have to be limits on it, and most of my security paranoia is not to do with the government 'listening in', but over the possibility that private individuals or organisations might be able to do it.

At home my only significant Internet use is to download e-mail messages (99% of web use I do from work). I keep the modem physically unplugged from the 'phone line at all times except when connecting. The reason I started doing this is that I once had a modem card zapped by lightning while it was left plugged in, and resented having to spend £50 to replace it. But I think it also makes good security sense to keep it unplugged, too. If a virus (e.g. MTX or some variants of Magistr), worm or Trojan contains code instructing the machine to connect, either to pass data out of download more malicious code in, then this code cannot be executed if the modem is unplugged.

I'm convinced that this precaution together with a firewall (Zone Alarm in my case) will keep all but determined professionals out of my PC. I'm online for such short periods of time that if anyone really did want to get a significant volume of data out of it, they would have to physically break into my flat and do it that way. Even then, they'd still have to defeat the W2K username security and file encryption, which I imagine the authorities could do, but most other people would have serious trouble.

If, however, installing SP3 enables W2K to ignore a firewall and still pass information out while connected, I don't want to do it. I have nothing to hide on my hard disc and I don't mind legal authorities having access to it under certain circumstances (i.e. if they obtain a court order), but I don't see why I should allow a private company to obtain personal data about me as part of a contract for the sale of goods.
 


Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 09-09-2002, 06:50 AM:
 
Update: I have installed W2KSP3 on the laptop, the idea being to see if it tries to do anything funny or introduces any reliability issues, and make a decision from there as to whether to put it on my main computer.

I installed it from the 124mb complete download, not the version which executes a shell program that then downloads the required updated files. So far, Zone Alarm hasn't reported any unusual executables or DLLs trying to access the Internet, and the connection icon on the taskbar hasn't shown any traffic going backwards and forwards when there shouldn't be.

One welcome feature that SP3 does introduce is a facility which allows you to totally erase Outlook Express and/or Internet Explorer. Presumably this is an implementation of the Supreme Court ruling.

If any obvious issues crop up I'll post details here...
 






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