Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Superman: Man Of Steel

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Posted by Dave Williams (Member # 299) on 08-28-2002, 03:14 PM:

New info on the on again off again superman movies. It looks as if Wolfgang Petersen, hired to help the Superman/Batman combo movie, has left that project, and also that super duper director McG has left the Superman V project as well.

The latest is that the next superman film will be called SUPERMAN: MAN OF STEEL, written by J.J. Abrams, with no director set as of yet, however helmer Brett Ratner of Rush Hour and Red Dragon fame, is deeply interested in this project and is in talks as we speak.

My thought on this..

DOES ANYONE ELSE WANT TO DIRECT THIS??? I mean about 20 people have been on and off the project as directors, Including Tim Burton who dumped to go do planet of the apes. You would think that this is a job that anyone can do right? Lets vote on who would be the best director..

My vote is..

Richard Donner.

For some reason he just seems like he could direct a superman movie.

Dave

Posted by Mike Schindler (Member # 1309) on 08-28-2002, 06:13 PM:

Ratner will be fine. I think he's a better director than both Petersen and McG, and neither of them were bad.

A while ago, I read an interview with Robert Rodriguez somewhere in which he said that he was offered the directing job back when Kevin Smith was writing it. He turned it down because he had just made about 50 movies in a row and was too tired to direct another one. But that would have been perfect.

Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 08-28-2002, 06:46 PM:

I vote for James Ivory.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 08-28-2002, 07:07 PM:

Richard Donner would be GREAT! Get him on the phone. He owes me a favor.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 08-28-2002, 08:43 PM:

Brett Ratner a better director than Wolfgang Petersen? Maybe McG, but not Petersen. No way. What else has Ratner done besides "Rush Hour"? Wolfgang has films like "Das Boot," "In the Line of Fire" and "Air Force One" to his credit. He is one of the best action film directors in Hollywood.

I think choosing Richard Donner to helm a new Superman project is an excellent suggestion, mainly because of his resounding success with the first Superman film (of which, in my opinion, is still the best contemporary super hero movie made).

As far as rising directors go, I would choose someone with a full name rather than anyone parading under an "MC" handle. I like what Antoine Fuqua did with "Training Day," and given a well developed script this fellow could put together a hard charged Superman action flick. Christoper McQuarrie (the writer of "The Usual Suspects") did a good job with "The Way of the Gun". I really like the work of Alex Proyas and David Fincher, although both do works perhaps too dark for any super hero film (even if Batman is involved). Luc Besson might be a good choice.

Posted by Mike Schindler (Member # 1309) on 08-28-2002, 09:32 PM:

Antoine Fuqua! Yes! That man is a genius. He would be perfect. He definitely gets my vote.

As for Ratner, I like the three movies of his that I've seen. But I think his best work has been his music videos. Mariah Carey's HEARTBREAKER and Heavy D's NUTTIN' BUT LOVE are both excellent, but his masterpiece is Madonna's BEAUTIFUL STRANGER. I have total faith in him on the basis of that video alone.

But not as much faith as I have in Antoine Fuqua. It's about time that he started to get the respect he deserves.

Posted by Adam Fraser (Member # 1074) on 08-29-2002, 12:24 AM:

Anybody but John Woo, he just ruins any movie he touches. Just imagine, Superman doing wire fighting.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 08-29-2002, 11:40 AM:

I agree with the negative judgment on Woo. He cut back a little on his penchant for what I call "bullshit direction" with "Windtalkers," but the war sequences were so incoherent (not to mention the budget seemed so minimal) that the film wound up feeling like a bad episode of "The A-Team" (remember that 1980's series?).

Woo just gets caught up in all the pretty pouting poser shit, 1,000 slo mo intro shots of the hero walking in and a lot of other crap that has nothing to do with showing a story. Bullshit direction. Style works if it actually lends something to the story. Much of what he does detracts from it. I don't know why he is seen for being such a filmmaking legend just because he has people in gun fights toting two .45 autos (or two of any kind of gun). Normally, a filmmaker gets respect for making an overall great film. I have not seen a John Woo directed movie that would qualify as great, or even pretty good, yet.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-29-2002, 06:01 PM:

Dave - Richard Donner already did direct a Superman movie...two of them, in fact (Superman and Superman II.)

I would love to see him do the new one. I think Superman II is the best superhero movie ever.

Posted by Charles Everett (Member # 889) on 08-29-2002, 07:45 PM:

Rob Cohen -- director of The Fast and the Furious

and xXx

He'll make Superman kick ass!

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 08-29-2002, 08:08 PM:

Woo definitely understands flash. But he seems to be have a problem with substance.

I vote for Richard Donner. Besides "Superman", does anyone remember "Ladyhawke"?

Posted by Mike Schindler (Member # 1309) on 08-30-2002, 12:06 PM:

I think the cool thing about Woo's style is that it does a great job of compensating for the lack of substance in the script. For example, in MISSION: IMPOSSIBLE II, the script was pretty bad. But we still cared for those characters a great deal, mainly because of the manner in which they were presented to us.

As for Donner, maybe I just need to see it again, but I really didn't think that SUPERMAN was all that good. I've never understood what people see in that movie. In my opinion, the best comic book movie of all time is Bruce Timm's BATMAN: MASK OF THE PHANTASM.

Posted by Adam Fraser (Member # 1074) on 08-30-2002, 01:00 PM:

I thought MI:2 lacked substance also, but I thought everything else that the director had control of was also horrible (fight scenes etc.). There were terrible technical inconsistincies in the movie, the worst being the motorcycle chase. (One scene the motorcycle has a knobby tire and the next it has street tires, pretty quick tire change at over 100mph!). I'm not sure if the director has control over these things, but he could have at least avoided close ups of the tires to avoid such things. I think the movie could have been at least an average action flick had Woo not directed it, slow motion fighting and wire work just doesnt do it for me.

Posted by Josh Kirkhart (Member # 1046) on 08-30-2002, 01:31 PM:

Richard Donner did not direct Superman II, he shot bits and pieces (most of it in the Daily Planet offices)but was replaced with Richard Lester by the Salkinds.

Ratner definitly has the talent required, just the shots in the Red Dragon trailer are enough for me.
Give it back to Burton and lets se what he can do, if he wants it.
Fuqua is definitly talented and under rated.

All these guys are fine and dandy as long as they don't pull a Schumacher and give supes huge plastic nipples.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 08-31-2002, 01:15 PM:

"Mission: Impossible 2" was a stinking piece of

. Script? What script? All John Woo did with this film was think of a bunch of camera shots he thought would look cool and force them together in some weak outline pretending to be a script.

The first "MI" film had a decent script by Robert Towne and credible direction by Brian DePalma. That movie felt like a spy movie, and was far more entertaining than its sequel. The CIA break-in was an awesome set piece for the movie. I can't remember squat about "MI:2" because it didn't have anything resembling dramatic tension. "MI:2" was a 2 hour long Jovan Musk perfume commercial. Just a bunch of extreme-slo-mo camera shots of Tom Cruise and Thandie Newton pouting for the camera. Do that on a Calvin Klein billboard. Don't do it in Pavavision, especially when my $7 was invovled.

Concerning Rob Cohen, he might have done a decent job with "Dragonheart" and "Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story," but I didn't like "The Fast and The Furious" and really hated "Daylight" (it doesn't matter to me if both those films had nicely aggressive surround sound, the films still sucked). Rob Cohen can put together some good action stuff, but I think he is too weak on the character/actor performance side to be able to do a great job with a "Superman" sequel.

At least a guy like Antoine Fuqua can compose some highly charged action sequences and balance that against good character work in the script and solid performances by his actors. "Bait" was a turd of a film, but I could see glimmers in that film of how Fuqua could do a lot better with much better material --and he did just that with "Training Day." Who knows? Fuqua could fall flat on his face under the weight (and producer/executive pressure) of a "Superman" project. But judging by the specific kinds of shot choices he makes and the energy that comes out of how they are edited together, I think he could do an excellent job as long as he is able to stay focused.

Posted by Mike Schindler (Member # 1309) on 08-31-2002, 06:19 PM:

Don't forget about Fuqua's masterpiece, THE REPLACEMENT KILLERS. That's the type of movie that THE MATRIX and all of its rip-offs just try so hard to be. And they never are.

Posted by Dave Williams (Member # 299) on 09-01-2002, 12:24 PM:

I saw the replacement killers. Are you asserting that the MATRIX ripped off the replacement killers?

Let me make a couple of points here;

1. There are only so many original ideas. To prevent anyone from ever using that idea again is ludicris, and to harass a film maker for doing so is silly. We would only have a few hundred movies, if that. To say that only one submarine movie can ever be made because all others would eventually be a copy, is just silly. A good idea should be explored over and over again, in different ways.

2. The replacement killers is not that original, but very good. I am sure that it stole from some other picture. Every good director learns the craft by watching films of other directors. The first early directors had nothing to go on, and if they succeeded, it was by pure moxy alone. They created the craft, and we are to this day copying what they did. Case in point, Metropolis. Try and make a film like that, and you just might succeed.

3. Even when you think you have found an original idea, think again. There is almost always a predecessor that inspired it. Great films come from good ideas, and not always do they come from the people that made the great film. Some inventions were great only because someone else toyed with it aftermarket. You think the inventor of the light bulb created what we have now? Of course not. You ask any person these days and most of them will not know who invented the bulb, but they will be able to identify who makes them "GE, WE BRING GOOD THINGS TO LIFE!". Great film comes from a try and try again effort. Some films just suck until the idea hits a high note in another film. Watch some Kirosawa (sic?) films and you may just find a huge influence in GL's early work.

Someday, even Starship Troopers could be made into a watchable film, minus the doogie howser element. And why didn't he die? I WANTED THAT SO MUCH!

Dave

Posted by Mike Schindler (Member # 1309) on 09-01-2002, 05:49 PM:

Dave, I wasn't trying to say that THE MATRIX ripped off THE REPLACEMENT KILLERS. I don't think that THE REPLACEMENT KILLERS is respected enought to have been ripped off yet. I do think that THE MATRIX has been ripped off, though. And, like you said, that's not a bad thing. I agree with pretty much everything you said in your post. I feel the same way.

I'm not as well-versed in the Hong Kong action sub-genre as I should be, but from what I've seen, THE REPLACEMENT KILLERS, THE MATRIX, and pretty much every other action picture which is made today (with exceptions, of course) seems to have directly or indirectly ripped off Woo's A BETTER TOMORROW. But like you were saying, that picture has been improved upon by others, none more so than Fuqua with THE REPLACEMENT KILLERS. It is, without a doubt, the best action film to be made in the past five years. It may be the best action film since DIE HARD.

What I was trying to say in my last post was that films like THE MATRIX get a lot more credit than they should. What people loved about THE MATRIX was done a hell of a lot better in THE REPLACEMENT KILLERS. But this doesn't mean that I'm not waiting for someone to come along and make a better movie in that style. I am. Every time I see a somewhat promising trailer, I think, "OK, this is gonna be the movie that tops THE REPLACEMENT KILLERS." And then I'm always disappointed. The next picture that I think might have chance is THE TRANSPORTER. That trailer kicks ass. But I guess we'll just have to wait and see...

Posted by Dave Williams (Member # 299) on 09-01-2002, 06:20 PM:

From what I understand "the transporter" is written and produced by Luc Besson, and directed by Corey Yuen, the latest action director out of hong kong. He was the second unit director on THE ONE and KISS OF THE DRAGON, as well as the action director for XMEN.

Preview audiences give it a good rating, with great action sequences, with the standard Luc Besson story.

Dave

Posted by David Favel (Member # 1125) on 09-01-2002, 09:41 PM:

Rated G

"Those who do not want to imitate anything, produce nothing."

--Salvador Dali

Posted by Dave Williams (Member # 299) on 09-19-2002, 01:21 AM:

Here is the latest word on the Superman project.

Director McG who walked out of production, still thinks he is directing the film.

HOWEVER..

The studio has hired Brett Ratner to direct. For those unfamiliar, he just released RED DRAGON. The script by JJ Abrams, of Alias fame, will cronicle superman from his early days to current. Jor El, while not yet cast, may be filled by Anthony Hopkins if Mr. Ratner has his way.

What happened to the "other" guy who played jor el? Oh yeah, hes fat now.

Dave

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 09-19-2002, 01:32 AM:

And he cost too much for only a few minutes worth of footage in the first one.

...and then he sued for compensation when footage (originally filmed for Superman: The Movie) was used in the prologue of Superman II so I'm guessing that they're "soooo OVER him."

Besides, would using him sell any tickets?

They oughta just scrap this troubled project and do a great "Smallville" movie.

Posted by Mike Schindler (Member # 1309) on 09-19-2002, 03:17 AM:

Three hours ago, I was happy that Ratner was replacing McG. But then I watched FASTLANE. Now I think this news could not suck more if it tried.

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 09-19-2002, 11:19 AM:

well, it's about to suck even harder...

I learned last week that they managed to hire someone worse than Nic Cage to play Superman... Yes, they have signed KEANU REEVES...
Hopefully this is just a rumor... Say it isnt so...

The apocalypse must be near...

-Aaron

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 09-19-2002, 11:38 AM:

That would be AWFUL. They should use another unknown, like they did with C. Reeve. A famous actor would have been distracting in the role. That was the key then, and it still is....the star of the movie should be Superman, not some actor playing him.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 09-19-2002, 05:18 PM:

Keanu Reeves is no Christopher Reeve. While he might be good in films like "Speed" or "The Matrix" he would be horribly miscast as The Man of Steel. Perhaps some old studio farts saw "The Matrix," got confused by the similarities in the Reeve/Reeves last names and shouted "he's not paralyzed! Green light the sequel!"

Speaking of "The Matrix" and which movies borrow from it or rip it off, I would say "The Matrix" actually steals a number of themes and ideas from "Dark City" (which I consider a superior film to "The Matrix").

Anyway, I think I'm out on the idea of Brett Ratner directing a Superman movie. But we'll see what he does with "Red Dragon". Having read the Thomas Harris novel, I'll be able to see just how credible or terrible an adaptation he does. If the replacement film for "Manhunter" is very well done then I might feel a little more comfortable about that dude being in the director's chair. Anyway, we'll see.

Posted by Mike Schindler (Member # 1309) on 09-19-2002, 07:09 PM:

I just read something yesterday (I can't remember where) in which Ratner said that the Reeves rumor was false.

Posted by Dave Williams (Member # 299) on 09-20-2002, 11:00 AM:

The Keanu Reeves rumor is false. Ratner at this point has said that he wan't to find an unknown to go with, instead of some huge name. He feels that the strenght of the story should outwiegh the need to pay 20 mil to get some hot shot to don the tights.

Dave

Posted by Mike Schindler (Member # 1309) on 09-21-2002, 12:38 AM:

"They oughta just scrap this troubled project and do a great "Smallville" movie."

I don't think that it's humanly possible to do a great SMALLVILLE movie.

Posted by William Leland III (Member # 1400) on 09-21-2002, 09:35 AM:

If they ever make this Superman movie I will be very worried. Hollywood loves to make movies based on older movies and ruin them. look at all the movies that have come out in recent years. Do we really want another Superman movie done with 90% special effects and the other 10% on script and character development. No, also the biggest question is who would play Superman? look at the punk kid who played Vader in Star Wars II. how bad did he suck. so do we really wnt another superman. im saying no. also has anyone heard of Gene Hackamn playing Luthor?