Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: What type of projector would I need???

This is topic What type of projector would I need??? in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Chris Meacham (Member # 531) on 08-30-2002, 01:42 PM:

Hi all.. I'm looking for a projector that will be able to hook up to a DVD player.

I am hoping to 'prove my concept' by showing movies in a hall.. If it works, then I'll do the hall right with proper equipment.

I realize that this is not necessarily the 'correct' forum for this, but I was hoping someone had some ideas for me..

Any information would be helpful.

cdm

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 08-30-2002, 01:49 PM:

Sounds like you are planning to have public showings of movies available on DVD. You need to license them, and pay the distributor to show them in public, even if you "own" the DVD.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 08-30-2002, 01:49 PM:

How big is the Hall???

Then you can start with what kind of projector to get.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 08-30-2002, 01:58 PM:

How bright an image do you need? In a darkened theatre environment, a screen luminance of about 12-16 footlamberts would suffice --- figure about 16 lumens per square foot of screen area if you are using a matte white screen (i.e. a 100 square foot screen will need at least a 1600 lumen projector). I think you are planning a dinner/movie theatre or "movie grill", which needs higher levels of ambient light for safety, so you will need much more light on the screen. Be sure your digital projector can interface with your DVD player, especially with regard to sync.

Posted by Chris Meacham (Member # 531) on 08-30-2002, 02:10 PM:

Wow... Thanks for being so prompt with your responses..

The hall measures (approximately) 60 long x 40 wide with 18-20 foot ceilings.

Yes, I plan on doing public showings.. And yes I do need to license them, that was another question I had, but I wasn't sure if this was the place for that.. If anyone (ie John) has an answer, or a direction in which to point, that would be fantastic..

Again Johm you are correct.. It will be a dinner theater, but my budget isn't big enough to support the dinner inside the theatre, so I am working on a join venture with a restaurant which is downstairs..

Once I prove that this works.. A serious renovation will be in order..

Thanks again for your responses..

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-30-2002, 02:23 PM:

Assuming you will have a good sized screen in your size hall, you will end up spending more money on a video projector than simply buying proper film equipment to do your shows with. DVD will look like

by the time you blow it up that much. You are going to have to use film and you will be in BIG legal trouble anyway if you run unlicensed DVDs to a public audience.

You are right, this is NOT the correct forum for this. Moving to Yak.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 08-30-2002, 03:26 PM:

I agree with Brad that a DVD will certainly NOT support the image quality required for even a moderate sized screen. Since you are going to pay the distributor "film" rental anyway, you are not really saving any money using an inferior format.

There is much good film equipment on the used equipment market. For less than the cost of a large (>6000 lumen) video projector, you could probably install a fairly nice 35mm setup (projector, platter, lamp) that will "blow away" any image you could put up from a DVD. Plus the maintenance cost will probably be much lower.

With a 20-foot ceiling and no sloped floor, you are probably limited to about a 15 x 36 foot matte white screen. A 3000 watt lamp would light it nicely.

In a dinner theatre where there will be conversation and an ambient "noise" level, analog stereo sound should suffice.

Posted by Robert E. Allen (Member # 1351) on 08-30-2002, 03:30 PM:

Chris:

I think you'd be better off going with 16mm. Get yourself a good machine or pair of machines (I have an older Eiki xenon modified with 6,000 ft reels). There are a number of film libraries across the country where you can rent the films (usually as soon as they hit DVD) for multiple showings. And some guarantee the good condition of the prints. However, you are prohibited from advertising the film title outside the building in which it is shown. But, if you start a "film club" you can send newsletters or e-mails to each club member telling them exactly what you are playing. And you can advertise publicly that you are showing films, the type of film playing and promote the dinner theatre. You can't get stereo prints in 16mm but there are a number of sound systems you can get (even from Radio Shack) that simulate stereo surround sound.

Good Luck,

Bob
The Old Showman

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 08-30-2002, 03:34 PM:

Chris -- what you need to look into is "non-theatrical public performance" rentals. The two largest companies in the US that do this are Swank Motion Pictures and Criterion Pictures, though there are countless smaller ones (New Yorker Films, etc.) which may specialize in older titles, foreign films, art, etc. Most titles should be available in 16mm, 35mm, and "video" (which presumably means DVD or VHS). Posters and pressbooks can be ordered through these distributors as well. Pricing will vary based on your type of organization (school, church group, film club, etc.), the film, and the number of showings.

Note that if you decide to go with 35mm projection, you will want to look into the local building codes for booth construction and the possible requirement for periodic inspection. In Massachusetts, at least, there are fairly strict regulations about this (booths are supposed to be inspected yearly by the Department of Public Safety) and similar requirements may or may not exist in other states. In some states (including Mass.), there are also requirements for projectionist licensing. In most cases, these requirements are not applicable to 16mm film or video projection.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 08-30-2002, 03:35 PM:

One problem with 16mm is that you will be fairly limited for image size, and widescreen prints may not be available. Today's audiences usually expect true stereo for recent films, even in a dinner theatre environment.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-30-2002, 04:33 PM:

I agree wholeheartedly with John. Spending your money on 16mm will end up being a waste of money. You'll have to have a pretty nice 16mm setup to be able to fill and light that size screen anyway. It will be cheaper to do the same thing with used 35mm equipment. Plus you won't have to wait around for 16mm print availability. People don't like to go to the movies when the show is available at Blockbuster for rent...especially if you plan on making it a dinner theater! You will also be waiting for video release in order to play DVDs and VHS tapes, so if you want to succeed, I can only see 35mm working for all of these reasons.

Posted by Robert E. Allen (Member # 1351) on 08-31-2002, 02:28 AM:

In researching for a project I have learned that dinner theatres appeal to a more mature crowd than those who just HAVE to be the first in line the day a new film breaks. Dinner theatre crowds know that a film is just as good (or bad) six months after its release as it is the first day distributors try to shove it down your throat. I have also learned that there are people who will wait to see a film in a dinner theatre because they enjoy the overall experience.

Bob
The Old Showman

Posted by Chris Meacham (Member # 531) on 08-31-2002, 12:46 PM:

John-

You mention a 15x36 foot screen.. I'm assuming you based this on the specs I gave (60f long x 40f wide x 20f ceilings)...

If I wanted to slit the room in half (width-wise), I think it would be beneficial to me to be able to run 2 theatres, than attempt to run 1..

This being my fantasy, I estimate the room sizes to be 28x40... How big a screen would that fit in that size?

And, in your opinion-
a) knowing it's going to be a dinner theatre
b) knowing the crowd is not 'need to see it first' crowd

would you say that 2 theatres would be more beneficial than 1?

Thanks again for all your help..

cdm

Posted by Chris Meacham (Member # 531) on 08-31-2002, 12:50 PM:

Bob-

Thanks for your feedback, althought a 'film club' is an interesting idea (something I had not considered), I don't think it fits into my grand scheme of things... However, I would not rule it out entirely once my concept proves itself..

And it's your research in regards to a dinner theatre that I have as well.. I'm not looking for 'need to see the movie the first day it comes out' type of crowd... I hope to grow into that, but for now, I am targeting the people who want a nice evening out, dinner and a movie, without the hassle of going to two different places..

Thanks for your feedback..

cdm

Posted by Chris Meacham (Member # 531) on 08-31-2002, 12:54 PM:

Brad-

Thanks for moving the topic into the correct area..

I'm glad to know that I can still find good technical information on this site... I was looking for the best way to go on format, and I've found it... 35mm..

I'd rather spend more money now, than have to do a complete upgrade later on..

Thanks again for your help..

cdm

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-31-2002, 01:26 PM:

Chris, there is a little button labeled "edit". Please use it next time you make a post and then feel the need to say something else, and then feel the need to say something after that. Posting repeatedly on the same thread right after yourself a no no.

Posted by Josh Jones (Member # 447) on 08-31-2002, 03:46 PM:

I would not recommend splitting the room in two, for one simple reason....Sound.

Many of the theatres that go this route end up with a noise bleed problem, you can hear the other theaters sound in the auditorium, which is annoying.

Josh

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-31-2002, 04:25 PM:

Get a good wall person and you won't have a problem at all.
Mark

Posted by Adam Fraser (Member # 1074) on 08-31-2002, 11:38 PM:

If you will be going with 35mm you would want to consider either hiring an experienced projectionist or making friends with a tech or projectionist who is willing to teach you all of the things required to put on a quality show. A beginner might be able to get something on screen, but if you have the help of someone with experience your show can be perfect, which keeps the customers coming in. Also, if this might help you.. I priced out a new 35mm booth with all equipment and sound, it ran about $60,000/screen to have the best stuff. But you can get pretty close quality with used equipment for about 1/2 of that price.

------------------
Adam Fraser
www.pinestheatre.com

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 09-01-2002, 01:03 AM:

Brad,

Not that I am interested in getting a 35mm system but out of curiosity, how much does it cost to get the equipment with mono sound and/or stereo? Once I get the equipment, how much does it cost to rent a new film that is at it's tail end of release?

-Claude

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-01-2002, 03:57 AM:

It all depends on just what kind of quality standards you want and the size of the room. Need more info.