This is topic 70mm in the roadshow era in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 09-07-2002, 11:01 AM:
 
Does anyone know if theatres would receive two 70mm prints for a particular film (one for back-up)? And did the studios routinely replace prints for the exceptionally long-running engagements (Sound of Music, Ben-Hur, 2001, etc.)?

And would they actually drop a 70mm print if they went off reserverd seats and to the continious performance at popular prices schedule? (Hello Dolly, for example, seemed to play close to a year at the Chinese in Hollywood. Only the first six months or eight (or somewhere around that) was it a reserved seat engagement. The ads in the LA Times would say "Produced in Todd-AO". The day the film switched to Popular Prices, that Todd-AO mention disappeared from that day's and future ads).
 


Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 09-07-2002, 11:09 AM:
 
Sound of Music ran 2 years on the same print at the Eglnton theatre in Toronto on its opening on the Bauer U2's then there

At the University there was sometimes a backup 70 but usually a 35
 


Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 09-07-2002, 12:34 PM:
 
"THE SOUND OF MUSIC" played about a year and three months at the Kuhio Theatre in Honolulu. It opened in 70mm in 1965 but the print had to be replaced after a year because it was in very poor condition.The replacement was a 35mm mono print and I believe the picture was still a road show engagement.

-Claude
 


Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 09-07-2002, 01:25 PM:
 
Claude,
What kind of projectors did they use there? I sonder if the print getting trashed was due to projector problems or projectionist problems???
Mark @ Claco
 
Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 09-07-2002, 03:12 PM:
 
Mark,

I was wondering the same thing because I have heard that if a print was well handled, it can last much longer than a year as Gordon as stated in his post regarding a two year run of "THE SOUND OF MUSIC" at his theatre. With two showing a day during it's road show, the print would have made about 732 passes in the projector and I know films have a much longer life than that if it was well handled. I do not know what kind of 70/35 projection equipment the Kuhio had but I am sure it was not the equipment. I suspect who ever ran the film at the Kuhio never did enough PM with his equipment and that is why the 70mm 'died' and had to be replaced with a 35mm. This is not unusial with some local projectionist because two 70mm prints were damaged duing their Honolulu engagements. One was "BATMAN" and the other one was "WHO FRAMED ROGER RABBIT". The 70mm print of"ROGER RABBIT" was damaged so badly that when I finally had a chance to see it, I was forced to warch a Dolby A 35mm print.

-Claude


 


Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 09-07-2002, 03:50 PM:
 
2001 did about the same span at the Glendale with one print
both theatres ran continous operation as well
I rember reading in a old theatre Catalogue about a print that held the record in an ad for Norelcos DP70
 
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 09-07-2002, 04:35 PM:
 
Gord, I remember that ad, the print was Sparticus with over 800 runs on it. Don't remember what theatre it was at though.
Mark
 
Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 09-07-2002, 05:42 PM:
 
I would guess that (even with proper handling) the mag tracks would wear first, forcing you to replace the print even if the image was still OK.
 
Posted by Robert Throop (Member # 61) on 09-07-2002, 09:53 PM:
 
The Norelco ad for "Spartacus" was for the Pantages theatre in Hollywood.
Kallet's Shoppingtown theatre in Syracuse, NY ran "Sound of Music" for a 18 months with just one 70mm print. I remember that they had a letter of commendation from Fox for the condition of the print at the end of the run.

------------------
Bob Throop
 


Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 09-07-2002, 10:25 PM:
 
Actually, the lifespan of the mag tracks is entirely dependent on tension against the head, and head condition. If both are looked after the tracks will last the entire life of the print, which is alot of runs as you can see by how long some prints played. One will notice that you get high end roll off, and a slight increase in noise before anything else starts to happen. This is usually after 250 to 500 runs though.
Mark @ Claco
 
Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 01-13-2007, 12:23 AM:
 

It has been 1588 days since the last post.


 
Posted by Michael Coate (Member # 757) on 01-13-2007, 12:23 AM:
 
quote:
Sound of Music ran 2 years on the same print at the Eglnton theatre in Toronto on its opening on the Bauer U2's then there
quote:
"THE SOUND OF MUSIC" played about a year and three months at the Kuhio Theatre in Honolulu.
quote:
2001 did about the same span at the Glendale with one print
quote:
the print was Sparticus with over 800 runs on it.
"The Sound Of Music" roadshow run in Toronto: 146 weeks
"The Sound Of Music" roadshow run in Honolulu: 81 weeks
"2001: A Space Odyssey" roadshow run in Toronto: 72 weeks
"Spartacus" roadshow run in Los Angeles: 61 weeks
 
Posted by Ron Curran (Member # 3631) on 01-13-2007, 08:59 PM:
 
... and these were all before FilmGuard.

Would Filmguard extend the life even further? Would the mag tracks benefit?

I remember running retrospectives with some so-so 35mm prints when we ran a mag print of Alien that looked and sounded perfect. Those tracks were like safety rails for the image.
 
Posted by Mike Heenan (Member # 392) on 01-14-2007, 12:41 AM:
 
During it's first engagement at the Cine Capri in Phoenix, a reel of Star Wars in 70mm was damaged... they ended up having to use a 35mm as backup, and I believe they did get a replacement reel, but they didn't have it in the both as a backup.

edit: (I just realized this wasn't the "roadshow" era, sorry)
 
Posted by Christian Appelt (Member # 1067) on 01-15-2007, 09:44 AM:
 
I remember a Philips/Norelco ad for the DP70 and an article in the German magazine PHILIPS KINOTECHNIK about SOUTH PACIFIC running at the Dominion Theatre, London. They claimed that after 1.600 runs the print was still in excellent condition - in total, SOUTH PACIFIC ran 4 years and 22 weeks at the Dominion.

Cinema Treasures - Dominion Theatres
 
Posted by Michael Coate (Member # 757) on 01-15-2007, 04:56 PM:
 
The one-year-plus roadshow runs at the Dominion in London:

South Pacific: 232 weeks
The Sound Of Music: 170 weeks
Cleopatra: 87 weeks
Fiddler On The Roof: 53 weeks

London, arguably, was the most successful roadshow city in the world. On average, the London engagements of roadshow films played longer than they did in comparable world-class cities.
 
Posted by Brian D. Whitish (Member # 825) on 01-16-2007, 12:53 AM:
 
Mr. Choate,
I just wanted to say how much I enjoy all the work you put into the information you so kindly share with all of us. Sometimes I get a little depressed about the state of exibition today. I started working in theatres in 1979, largely because of the come back of 70mm and good presentation. I have made many trips to LA to visit friends(2 who sound editors, one a screenwriter) gotten to see some memorable presentations. Apocalypse Now and Brainstorm in 70mm at the Cinerama Dome, Pink Floyd The Wall 70mm at the Village, Top Gun 70mm at the Chinese, and others. Here in Seattle I had the thrill of my Theatre life doing one shift of This Is Cinerama, one of How the West was Won in real 3 projector Cinerama. Reading your posts and other info about those great theatres makes feel happy I was a small part of it, and quite lucky to have gotten to see alot during a fine time.
When the SRO's, Edwards, and other great chains were building some great facilities and running them with care it makes me long for the days when people who cared ran the business, rather than the bean counters that seem so prevelant today. As witnessed by this forum there are a great many who have a deep and abiding care for the business of running movies and the buildings they show in today. But I cant help but miss the Plitt Century City, the Orange Cinedomes, and other great 750-1500 seat houses with huge screens. Thanks for keeping that alive. I sure appreciate it.

Brian
 
Posted by Christopher Seo (Member # 7) on 01-17-2007, 03:27 PM:
 
If anyone still cares, the Kuhio Theatre in Honolulu had a pair of Norelco DP70s when it was equipped for 70mm.
 
Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 01-18-2007, 12:43 AM:
 
The Kuhio in Honolulu was one of my favorite theatre ever since I went there with friends for the very first time to see THE ROBE in CinemaScope with four track mag stereo during it's Hawaii premiere engagement in 1963. The theatre's very first 70mm presentation was SOUTH PACIFIC which played there as a road show in 1958. Since that time I have seen many 70mm films there and the last one they played was David Lean's RYAN DAUGHTER in 1970 as a general release and not a road show. Because it was not a road show engagement, I was expecting a 35mm presentation but I was very pleased when the showing turned out to be in 70mm when newspaper advertisments did not promote the fact that it was.

-Claude

[ 01-18-2007, 08:57 AM: Message edited by: Claude S. Ayakawa ]
 
Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 01-18-2007, 11:44 AM:
 
Gee Mike Heenan

I purposely refrained from discussing that incident to keep from putting some good people on the spot. But our F-T member who worked the Cine Capri was not responsible for the damage. What did occur is a well-know story among AZ Projectionists of the IATSE era, and I know what happened.

Regards

Kutler
 
Posted by Mike Heenan (Member # 392) on 01-18-2007, 02:58 PM:
 
Ok Will so what exactly did happen? I didn't accuse anyone here of damaging the film and wasn't trying to sugarcoat the incident, but it DID happen, I only brought it up to sort of show the fact there wasn't a backup print available in 70mm, but this wasn't of the roadshow era like the thread suggested as I later edited the post.
 
Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 01-18-2007, 03:43 PM:
 
During that time the studios would only send a 70MM print with a 35mm backup print. We never had a extra 70MM print sitting around. That has been always the case in most bookings at First Run theatres in Hollywood and Westwood, California.
 
Posted by Michael Coate (Member # 757) on 01-19-2007, 12:26 AM:
 
Article from Rochester (NY) Democrat and Chronicle

quote:

January 8, 2007

Monroe Theater had glory days

Question: What can you tell me about the history of the Monroe Theater — before it turned into a place showing X-rated movies?

— J.C., Rochester

Answer: A who's who of Rochester turned out when the racing movie Grand Prix opened at the Monroe Theater in February 1967. The 600 attendees included Gilbert McCurdy, Jim Wegman and Police Chief William Lombard, reported Art Griffiths in the Times-Union. However, if it hadn't been for some hurried, last-minute preparations, they might not have seen a movie that night at 585 Monroe Ave. The Cinerama lenses that were used to show the movie, it was discovered, would not fit properly into the projection booth porthole, Griffiths reported. "The limitation cut about 10 feet of movie off the screen. Four workmen worked nearly all day until just before showtime to widen the porthole."

"'It worked,' sighed (theater manager Frank) Bassett between waves to familiar faces among the first nighters."

Those were the days. For nearly 40 years, the Monroe had shown some of the best movies that Hollywood had to offer, and thrived. But by 1967, those days were about to end. In a few more years, no police chief in his right mind would be caught coming to the theater where Sound of Music once had a record-breaking run. Instead, he would be sending in undercover officers to confiscate X-rated movies.

Monroe opened in 1928

The Monroe, designed by Carl Ade, opened as a neighborhood movie house on Jan. 5, 1928, according to information on file at the Rochester Public Library and in a profile by Lloyd Klos of the Rochester Theater Organ Society. The first film it showed was The Magic Flame, starring Samuel Goldwyn's "hottest" screen team at that time, Ronald Colman and Vilma Banky.

That was the era of silent movies, and the Monroe featured a $35,000 three-manual Kohl organ that eventually went to a church in Connecticut and then to Miami's Andre Hall, according to Klos' profile.

Eventually, the theater was equipped with a wide screen, Cinerama and full, six-track Todd-AO Cinemascope to keep pace with innovations.

In 1957, for example, "the sounds of workmen's hammers issuing from inside the Monroe Theater" were "significant heralds of a new era in local motion picture entertainment," the Times-Union reported. The theater was installing a new projector and a bigger, wider screen to accommodate Todd-AO system movies. This would "bring our town into the major leagues of the screen world," the newspaper reported, starting with the local premiere of Around the World in 80 Days. It also would give the 1,000-seat Monroe an edge in competing for similar first-run movies requiring "special handling."

Bassett was all smiles in April 1966, when Sound of Music was still playing at the Monroe after 51 weeks — and after grossing $500,000. Both numbers set new records for local movie theaters, the Times-Union reported. So careful were the projectionists that they were still showing the original 70 mm print they had received at the start of the run. There had been only three breaks in the film during 593 showings.

"The year's run has been bolstered by a great number of theater parties, particularly from area towns where groups rent a school bus, come to the city for dinner and then take in the show," the newspaper noted. Two years later, a re-release of Gone with The Wind completed a 26-week run at the Monroe. In 1969, Funny Girl with Barbra Streisand ran for 48 weeks.

Those, indeed, were the days.

By the mid-1970s, more and more people were flocking to multiscreen movie theaters in the suburbs. "During the past 25 years, about 20 theaters were closed or razed within the city and replaced by newer theaters in suburban shopping centers," Bob Minzesheimer reported in the Democrat and Chronicle in 1976. Of the 11 city theaters left at that point, three were showing X-rated movies.

Bill Benet, former Monroe County legislator, remembers Monroe's better days, when he saw Around the World in 80 Days. He remembers the theater's "nice domed ceiling with a lot of architectural detail to it. It might not have been on the grand scale of the RKO Palace, but it was certainly on that next level."

"There are those of us who still believe that it would be a great renovation project, and that it is still feasible," he added. "Difficult, expensive ... probably. But very feasible."


 
Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 01-19-2007, 01:29 AM:
 
Hi Mike H.

The print was run on JJ's and the projectionist threaded and ran the reel in the 35mm configuration, making new sprocket holes down the middle of the print. As I said, our FT member was NOT the responsible individual! But this is a rather infamous incident among IATSE projectionists throughout AZ. From what I gather, a replacement 70mm reel was procured to replace the damaged one.

K
 
Posted by Michael Coate (Member # 757) on 01-23-2007, 02:44 AM:
 
quote: Will Kutler
I purposely refrained from discussing that incident to keep from putting some good people on the spot. But our F-T member who worked the Cine Capri was not responsible for the damage.
quote:
As I said, our FT member was NOT the responsible individual!
Why are you being so defensive about this mystery film-tech member and former projectionist at the Cine Capri? Your protectiveness over a person you brought up may only make readers more interested in knowing who the person is and that one's perception is that he was somehow involved with the incident.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out you're referring to Floyd Newton.
 
Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 01-24-2007, 05:42 PM:
 
Michael, I'm sorta at a loss as to why you felt you must "out" Floyd in this thread...it certainly wasn't necessary and I, for one, didn't guess that nor could I give a rat's ass about what happened back then. You came across as mean and vindictive.

You seem to have a hardon for arguing with Will at the expense of others (Floyd) . Perhaps you and Will should get a comfy room at the "No Tell Motel" and snuggle and "work out" your differences.
 
Posted by Mike Heenan (Member # 392) on 01-24-2007, 05:53 PM:
 
[sleep]

[evil]
 
Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 01-24-2007, 05:56 PM:
 
OK Heenan! [thumbsup] Smart ass! [beer] [Big Grin]

But, c'mon YOU KNOW you want to hide a camera in that room for posting on YouTube! HA!
 
Posted by Michael Coate (Member # 757) on 01-26-2007, 03:10 AM:
 
quote: Phil Hill
You seem to have a hardon for arguing with Will
Tough shit. My "hardon for arguing with Will" dates back to this thread.

If Will and others would make a greater effort to communicate effectively and if they would recognize the value of using the "point/counterpoint" process during an argument, these threads probably wouldn't spin out of control and the level of mutual respect might increase.
 
Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 01-26-2007, 03:53 AM:
 
quote: Will Kutler
The print was run on JJ's and the projectionist threaded and ran the reel in the 35mm configuration, making new sprocket holes down the middle of the print.
New sprocket holes? Sure it wasn't 'just' some scratching? I'm at a loss how anyone could make new sprocket holes with a JJ.
 
Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 01-27-2007, 12:09 AM:
 
Michael,
JFC! That thread is almost 4 years ago!

Dear Diary,
This boy REALLY holds grudges a LONG time! Life is too short for that. How sad...
 
Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 01-27-2007, 11:38 PM:
 
Coate has proven his inmaturity and insistance on creating arguments among F-T members, not to mention his constant personal attacks.

Anyhow, I will neither confirm or deny Floyd Newton. I do consider Floyd to be a good friend and teacher who has probably learend, experienced and forgotten more about the cinema exhibition industry than Coate could ever comprehend.

Instead of opening his oversized yap about Floyd, Coate shoud have considered that there are registered F-T members who lurk but rarely post in the forums. And I do know for a fact that some of these people were/are I.A.T.S.E. projectionists with ties to AZ.

So, as I previously stated, this was a well known projectionist "ooops" story that has circulated around AZ since it occured.

From my understanding, the responsible projectionist was a senior citizen with medical problems that probably adversely affected his ability to work the booth. Somehow, this person threaded up the 70mm print with the Century JJ sprockets in the 35mm format set-up.

This will probably be the last the last time that I acknowledge Coate in the Forums, as this individual is just not worth my time and energy.

Kutler
 
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-28-2007, 12:43 AM:
 
Geez guys, just drop it. [sleep]
 
Posted by Floyd Justin Newton (Member # 1316) on 01-29-2007, 11:13 AM:
 
Brad.....thank you! [Wink]
 




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