Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: The Big Boom Mike Debate

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Posted by Michael Brown (Member # 890) on 09-14-2002, 02:26 PM:

Over at www.nitpickers.com there is a debate over boom mikes that dip into the outhside of the 1.85:1 image area (and therfore can only be seen if the projector is not properly in frame. Is this the fault of the projectionist only. Or are the film makers to blaim and can it be classed as a mistake in the films production? (I.e a valid contribution to the nitpicker site.

Posted by Mitchell Cope (Member # 32) on 09-14-2002, 03:08 PM:

I recently saw "The Good Girl". I wouldn't have thought the framing was off but in one scene, down pops the boom mike. It sort of ruins the illusion of disbelief when this happens. In this case some people laughed. I got uncomfortable wondering if this annoyance was now going to ruin my evening. The projectionist, out by the concession stand, probably never knew this occurred on his watch.

How much tolerance should the projectionist be allowed? My instinct is to say the initial responsibility is on the film maker. From there, obvious framing errors should be prevented.

I think someone on this forum thought they saw a boom mike on a scope film. Has that really happened? Sometimes I think I see a boom mike and it turns out to be a chandelier.

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 09-14-2002, 04:01 PM:

Boom mic in a scope image: "City By The Sea", in the first scene that takes place at the beachfront diner.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 09-14-2002, 04:31 PM:

I once watched a film that showed all of the top part of the film frame in a flat presentation and the projectionist was very fortinate that the director of photography was very careful not to include anything that was not meant to be seen in the picture. With video in mind, I believe amost all films shot with spherical lenses are composed in a manner that does not show any unwanted images to show in the frame because many films are starting to be released on DVD with both the full frame and original aspect ratio versions. Many to the displeasure of cinemaphiles are even showing up in full screen only.

-Claude

Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 09-14-2002, 06:59 PM:

"Goldeneye" had a boom mike drop into the frame for a second right where James Bond says "The writing's on the wall" (I verified this on 3 different screens, all projectors were framed properly), but when it was issued on laserdisc the shot was re-framed to hide the mic- bastards!
"Detroit Rock City" (also scope) had a boom mike clearly visible as a reflection in the scene where the restroom falls apart, but that also was altered on the DVD version. It was in the middle of the frame near the left of the screen, so no framing issues here.

Posted by Ron Lacheur (Member # 1126) on 09-14-2002, 09:30 PM:

not that it matters, but " Ringmaster " had a number of shots that had a boom mic in it.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 09-14-2002, 09:46 PM:

Van Wilder has a boom mic drop into the 1.85 frame a couple times while he is driving his golf cart.

Posted by Robert E. Allen (Member # 1351) on 09-14-2002, 10:52 PM:

While the projectionist is responsible to frame the picture properly, it is not his responsibility to "frame out" anything that shouldn't be in the picture. Having worked in the studios as a lighting tech for a while I know a conscientious director will re-shoot a scene that catches anything that shouldn't be in the picture (mike booms, plane noises or other noises that shouldn't be there, etc.) unless he thinks it will go unnoticed.

Bob
The Old Showman

Posted by Mike Schindler (Member # 1309) on 09-15-2002, 02:51 AM:

On the audio commentary for JOHN CARPENTER'S GHOSTS OF MARS, Carpenter points out one shot in which a boom mic had been digitally removed. It had never occured to me that people would do that, but I thought it was a pretty cool idea. I wonder how often this is done.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 09-15-2002, 08:00 AM:

"Wire removal" and removal of other extraneous objects is a routine service offered by special effects labs:
http://www.cinesite.com/la/vfx/services.html
http://www.cinesite.com/la/vfx/recent.html
http://www.cinesite.com/lo/vfx/current.html
http://www.cinesite.com/lo/vfx/recent.html
http://www.pixelmonger.com/bunny.html
Pinnacle Systems
http://www.hybride.com/wire_removal_eng.htm

Usually cheaper and easier to reshoot the take if they suspect the framing was violated.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 09-15-2002, 10:29 AM:

Warners bought us a new aperture plate to mask out a boom mike in "Going in Style."

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 09-15-2002, 11:09 AM:

quote:
Over at www.nitpickers.com there is a debate over boom mikes

That site's got the right name, and how! What gets me about these "blooper spotters", is they complain about things that happen purely as a result of the filmmaking process. Things like clouds in different patterns from shot to shot, shadows that don't fall in the same spot on the ground, and minute changes in background action.

They also complain about practical considerations and elements key to the suspension of disbelief. I remember one that read something like, "when the girl threw that encyclopedia at the guy, if you look on the side of the bookshelf, she really missed him, but he acted like he was hit." So, evidently, I guess if they don't really kill people in the movies, it's a mistake? This kind of nonsense is often listed on IMDB as "goofs".

I can well imagine the "nit pickers" think they've hit the motherlode when they see things in a 1.85:1 movie shown on TV. One I've seen incorrectly listed as a mistake (as far as the feature is concerned) is from "Smokey and the Bandit". Jackie Gleason's gun and holster disappears in a closeup. The thing these folks don't realize is this is well outside of the 1.85:1 action safe area (it's almost off the TV screen, too, for that matter). It was completely unnoticeable in the theatre.

So, with this in mind, Michael, I would have to vote NO; a mic in the frame is NOT a "mistake", if it's obviously outside the area that was intended to be shown. Projection misframes are isolated incidents and a cinematographer should be deemed safe outside the "safe" areas.

------------------
Better Projection Pays!

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 09-15-2002, 11:22 AM:

I agree there!

How many movies are there where a guy/girl is SUPPOSEDLY naked in a shower scene but if you frame down, out of the safe area, you find that the actor is wearing a bathing suit or something?

On the other hand, you don't often hear anybody complain about when movies are transfered to video that parts of the picture are cut off. For instance, "Blues Brothers". The two cops sitting in their cruiser behind the bill board... Because of the difference in framing, you can't see all of the words, "See you next Wednesday" printed on the board. This is a shame because this is a trademark of Landis' films.

I think these guys have to learn the difference between aspect ratios, what constitutes a safe area violation and what constitutes a framing error.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 09-15-2002, 11:32 AM:

For the record, a "mistake" would be if someone was shown getting into a red car and driving off in a blue car. Or, exiting screen left and then entering screen left in subsequent shots.

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Better Projection Pays!

Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 09-15-2002, 12:04 PM:

There's an interesting case with the Rocky Horror Picture Show:

IIRC, this was filmed in 1.66:1, but most theaters project it at 1.85:1. If you watch the Home Video version as the couple are leaving the chapel, right as they walk out the door at the very top of the frame you see what looks like an obvious boom mic. Many have reported this as such, but as the camera follows the couple and a wider shot of the chapel is in the background, you see it's just a light fixture over the door that indeed looks like a boom mic!

IMHO, in this day and age of popcornjectionists, all 1.85 releases should be hard-matted.

=TMP=

Posted by Michael Brown (Member # 890) on 09-15-2002, 12:55 PM:

Bah!

The Moderator of the message board at Nitpickers.com has DELETED my last post and locked the topic as it seems he does not like people who have a differing opinion than his. I belive I even wrote something like "If Brendan (the moderator) wants to have Boom Mikes that Appear ouside the 1.85:1 frame as a Nitpick then he can as this is his site and not mine"

And he still chose to delete my post.

Childish.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 09-15-2002, 01:09 PM:

I saw a boom mic clear as day in trailers for "The Evening Star". Those trailers were framed flat with more top and bottom area. If I remember right, the movie itself was shown in Super35 which cropped the thing out of frame.

Posted by Jeffry L. Johnson (Member # 453) on 09-15-2002, 02:25 PM:

There are two shots in the wedding sequence at the beginning of The Rocky Horror Picture Show that were photographed with a 1.85:1 mask. This is quite apparent when you project it at 1.66:1.

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 09-15-2002, 02:27 PM:

I remember way back when Battlestar Galactica came out in theatres and there were several scenes where the boom mic was clearly visible.
I think that movie would win the most boom mics in a feature award if there were one.

Posted by Charles Everett (Member # 889) on 09-15-2002, 06:24 PM:

Generally, if you see a boom mic the image is not framed properly -- and if anybody tells you otherwise he's full of

Made is 5 reels long in 1.85 flat format. When I saw Made at the Loews New Brunswick in July 2001, the booth fiddled with the framing knob at the start of R5. By doing so the booth chopped off part of the image and made sure (no pun intended) that I could see boom mics. The rating card at the end even got cut in two. After the show I went to the lobby and tried to explain what happened. The employee I talked to -- he was in his teens or early 20's -- told me that was the way it was supposed to be. I have not been back to the Loews New Brunswick since.

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 09-15-2002, 06:35 PM:

In the case of "City by the Sea", which is scope, the framing looked like it was just slightly low but not enough to see splice flashes or anything. It wasn't just the very tip of the mic showing either - you could see most of the mic body drooping down into the frame. I would say I'm surprised nobody else has picked up on this, but then hardly anyone has seen this film (it's that bad).

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 09-15-2002, 10:03 PM:

quote:
The Moderator of the message board at Nitpickers.com has DELETED my last post

Chin up, Michael. Consider the source. They're too nit-picky, anyway.

------------------
Better Projection Pays!

Posted by Martin Brooks (Member # 1269) on 09-15-2002, 10:17 PM:

quote:
In the case of "City by the Sea", which is scope, the framing looked like it was just slightly low but not enough to see splice flashes or anything. It wasn't just the very tip of the mic showing either - you could see most of the mic body drooping down into the frame. I would say I'm surprised nobody else has picked up on this, but then hardly anyone has seen this film (it's that bad).

Sure it wasn't misframed in your theatre? I saw it the other night and although I wasn't looking for any such mistakes, I saw no boom.

And I liked the film. Not a classic or anything, but an okay film. The only thing I didn't like was that they claimed it was Long Beach, Long Island, but they shot it in Asbury Park, NJ. Long Beach is actually a pretty nice looking place with expensive condos on the beach and even when it was at its worse, it never looked like Asbury Park does now, at least not like it's portrayed in the film.

One of the errors that I've seen in films is that the books they put in people's bookcases don't fit the character. In "Back to the Future," Michael J. Fox's character has "Reference Quarterly" in his headboard when it's more likely that his character would have a comic book.

There's a film coming out called "Phone Booth". You can check out the trailer on the apple web site: http://www.apple.com/trailers/fox/phone_booth/

The film supposedly takes place in Manhattan. But there hasn't been a full length phone booth in Manhattan for over 20 years. Even the 1978 Superman made a joke out of this.

Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 09-16-2002, 01:55 AM:

quote:
One of the errors that I've seen in films is that the books they put in people's bookcases don't fit the character. In "Back to the Future," Michael J. Fox's character has "Reference Quarterly" in his headboard when it's more likely that his character would have a comic book.

You mean that people are actually reading & thinking about the titles of prop books on bookshelves in sets now? Great goshamighty if you look, you'll find the people in most movies & plays have massive antique law libraries.

Posted by Dave Williams (Member # 299) on 09-16-2002, 04:23 AM:

Does anyone know WHY directors allow boom mic's in the image?

WELL I'LL TELL YA WHY!!!

It's so that they can see the damn microphone is there and close enough cause they don't trust nobody!!!

DATS WHY!!!

Actually I don't know why, nor do I care. If I see one, for me it matters not. So what. Who cares. It makes me laugh. Hey, I am smart enough to figure out that you need microphones to pick up voices and all. That is unless you can do that in your head, and then I am frightened.

Dave

Posted by Michael Gonzalez (Member # 593) on 09-16-2002, 05:48 PM:

I don't know Sam I might take that bet. I've seen Jerry Maguire shown out of frame and just about every other scene there is a boom mic present.