Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Senator Theatre to Run 70mm Lawrence!!!

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 09-19-2002, 04:44 PM:

Starting Friday 9/20/02, The Historic Senator Theatre in Baltimore, MD will be running a BRAND NEW PRINT of Lawrence of Arabia in 70mm DTS (5.1 mix). http://www.senator.com

Lawrence always has an impressive display with its shipping cans (13 of them)

Below is the test run of Lawrence

The next picture is a close-up of the Bauer U2 with dual DTS 70mm heads.

Lawrence is going to play for only two-weeks so wake the kids and phone the neighbors!

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 09-19-2002, 05:20 PM:

Is there any place in Texas (or, God forbid, Oklahoma) playing the new "Lawrence of Arabia" reissue in 70mm DTS? If Northpark #1 was still around, it would have been playing there.

Posted by Charles Everett (Member # 889) on 09-19-2002, 06:21 PM:

That "BRAND NEW PRINT" for Lawrence of Arabia is a restoration.

The Ziegfeld in NYC, the Cinerama Dome in LA and the Cinerama in Seattle also open Lawrence tomorrow per the Film Releases website. The Castro in SF opens it 9/27.

By coincidence The Four Feathers -- which some hypemasters in the press are calling "a modern-day Lawrence of Arabia" -- opens tomorrow.

Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 09-19-2002, 06:38 PM:

The Dome's engagement has been delayed till the 25th (allegedly at the request of Paramount, due to a "competing" desert picture). The wording of the Arclight Cinemas website has changed a bit, making it sound like there will be more than one 70mm print shown there (instead of "in 70mm" it now reads "All 70mm" and mentions in the blurb in 70mm at the Dome and the Arclight Cinema screens). I had thought the Ziegfeld's engagement had been pushed back the the 25th as well).

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 09-19-2002, 07:29 PM:

>>""BRAND NEW PRINT" for Lawrence of Arabia is a restoration."<<

And your point is?

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

Posted by John T. Hendrickson, Jr (Member # 849) on 09-19-2002, 08:14 PM:

Steve:

Fantastic pics! Hope I can get down to Baltimore and take it in. Any chance of getting into the booth?

John

Posted by Mathew Molloy (Member # 666) on 09-19-2002, 08:47 PM:

Those are the nicest looking 70mm shipping cans I've ever seen! Look, all the handles are there! Gasp in aw at the clean edges...no bent pieces of tin there! Hell, I'm drooling more over the cans than the actual engagement! Still, I'll be checking this out when it plays at the Dome. Maybe they'll let me take a look at their cans...ya think?

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 09-19-2002, 09:04 PM:

Isn't the Bauer the machine where you can adjust loop size while running?

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 09-19-2002, 09:37 PM:

Steve G: Thanks for posting those pics. Have any more??

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 09-19-2002, 09:43 PM:

The Splendor of 70mm!!! Sensory overload. I know The Senator will take good care of that gorgeous print! Film Done Perfect!

http://www.senator.com/HISTORY/ABOUT_TOM.HTML

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Posted by Mark Lensenmayer (Member # 134) on 09-19-2002, 10:04 PM:

What a rare and wonderful 70mm feast! I hope LOA comes this way some day.

Central Ohio gets a small taste of 70mm next week, as the Wexner Center for the Arts plays 2001 in 70mm from Tuesday, 9/24 to Friday, 9/27. I may go more than once...just might enjoy this one from the FRONT row one time!

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 09-19-2002, 10:20 PM:

Matt, have you seen "THE JERK" one too many times? "He hates these cans; stay away from the cans!"

Yes there are more pictures but I don't have all that I want for a serious upload. The Senator is a very pretty theatre starting from the outside and going in...All of the pictures I have of it at the moment are from the booth.

As to getting into the booth, I have no say in the matter but you can always ask (I work for the company that services the theatre, I don't work for the Senator proper).

Robert Harris has been known to state that he finds the Senator to be one of the, if not THE best places to view a 70mm presentation.

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

Posted by Mathew Molloy (Member # 666) on 09-19-2002, 10:32 PM:

Steve, LMAO!

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 09-19-2002, 11:29 PM:

Now, why would they put "NFG" stickers on the reel cases?!

Posted by Michael Coate (Member # 757) on 09-20-2002, 12:31 AM:

quote:
Lawrence always has an impressive display with its shipping cans (14 of them)

I count 13 cans in the photo!

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 09-20-2002, 12:39 AM:

For those who have never seen Lawrence in 70mm--you haven't seen Lawrence! Run, don't walk, to the Senator and go see it. Now.

The presentation was first-rate when they last ran it two years ago, though the print was plagued by poor lab work. Hopefully the new prints will be as good as the 1989 reissue prints.

I doubt that I'll make it to the Senator for this show, but I'll definitely go when it opens in the Boston area at Coolidge Corner, presumably in 70mm mag (they have a pair of Norelcos, but no digital).

This is one of my all-time favorite films and it is exciting to see a (relatively) wide 70mm release, in both mag and DTS.

BTW, what _does_ the NFG sticker mean? I doubt that it's supposed to indicate "no @#$!ing good."

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 09-20-2002, 01:21 AM:

I saw the 1989 reissue in NYC at the Ziegfeld. Great show (and it was actually my first time seeing the film; what a great way to see it for the first time --especially after being so underwhelmed by "Batman" earlier that afternoon at Cinema 1).

Still, is there any place away from the east and west coasts playing the DTS 70mm version of "LOA"??? Or is it just strictly a NYC, LA type of thang? If so, it would be incredibly disappointing. I would like to be able to see it in the Senator theater. But I lack the air travel funds, not to mention time off work available, to make such a trip.

Can anyone in Texas handle LOA in DTS 70mm? I know of one such place, but that is not a commerical movie theater.

Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 09-20-2002, 02:56 AM:

Love the "Boy In The Cellulose Tile Bubble" projection booth!

To balance the anachronistic Christie lamphouses, you should have some chrome 50's - 60's Sunbeam appliances like an electric coffe pot & toaster for the projectionist on a table somewhere. And only wear stovepipe straight leg black pants, white shirt, & Buddy Holly glasses in the booth.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-20-2002, 04:47 AM:

Bobby, there are 2 places in Dallas that can do it and possibly a third in the works. Obviously my screening room is one, the other being Studio Movie Grill Prestonwood house #1 or 2. In fact, they ran Titanic a couple of years ago. As for the third venue, keep your fingers crossed.

Steve, please send in a formal picture page of the booth, the Lawrence setup as well as the rest of the theater. Please don't upload a ton of pictures to a forum thread. They will get lost as time goes by. Putting them in the pictures section will make them readily available for continual easy viewing. Besides, we really need pictures of that place!

Posted by Charles Everett (Member # 889) on 09-20-2002, 07:15 AM:

Paul L must have learned that something was up. I checked Moviefone this morning and found the Ziegfeld still has My Big Fat Greek Wedding.

Maybe Paramount bullied Clearview Cinemas (which runs the Ziegfeld) into not opening the restored Lawrence of Arabia. Then again Paramount gives nearly all its titles to Loews in Manhattan.

Steve: "Brand New Print" implies that it was struck from existing elements. The restoration is ID'd as such per the listing on the Film Releases website.

Posted by Joe Beres (Member # 678) on 09-20-2002, 08:34 AM:

The new 70mm print of Lawrence of Arabia is also slated to play at the Heights theater in Minneapolis starting on October 18th. I can't wait, I've been waiting for such an opportunity to see this film I'm really looking forward to it.

Steve, great pics! I did notice the platter though. I can't believe you allow it.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 09-20-2002, 09:33 AM:

As to the 14-reels...either my mind is playing tricks on me or the 14th can was in the booth...I can verify the actual reel count. BTW...what the heck are you guys analyzing the pictures to the point of counting the cans?!!? "they hate these cans!"

Brad, I didn't upload all of the pictures I had...just the topical ones. I do plan to upload a Senator spread but the booth is just part of the story.

However, here is a picture of the soundracks... (a teaser, you might say)

As to the platter, it was there before I became involved...but I'm working on it's elimination!

There is also a Bauer Selecton II for 16mm and Simplex XL with all of the trimmings for 35mm (has Dolby dig, SDDS, 4-track mag, DTS, and even the screen scope!!)

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

Posted by Aaron Haney (Member # 747) on 09-20-2002, 10:07 AM:

Brad, correct me if I'm wrong, but I can think of a lot more than just 3 screens in the Dallas area that can handle 70mm. Yes, Northpark is gone, but there were quite a few other multiplexes that could run 70mm in Dallas, many of which are still around. They may not be in the best of shape, but last I heard, they were still operating.

Posted by Peter Kerchinsky (Member # 1098) on 09-20-2002, 01:24 PM:

The opening of LAWRENCE at Seattle's Cinerama has been delayed until the 25th for the same reason stated earlier. They're filling in for four days with STAR WAS EP. 2 in 35.
BARAKA opens in 70MM at the Egyptian on the 27th for a 3 week run.
Matt-
What's with the cans?

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 09-20-2002, 01:46 PM:

Peter wrote: "The opening of LAWRENCE at Seattle's Cinerama has been delayed until the 25th for the same reason stated earlier. They're filling in for four days with STAR WAS EP. 2 in 35."

Didn't that theatre originally show Episode 2 using digital projection?:
http://www.starwars.com/episode-ii/digitalproj_list.html

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-20-2002, 03:52 PM:

Aaron, no the other theaters have either closed down, had their 70mm equipment removed or stripped. There is one other theater that could be resurrected to run 70mm again, but corporate politics and the general belief on behalf of the powers that be that 35mm scope is just as good as 70mm guarantees it will never run 70mm again. It's just the venues I listed above, no others.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 09-20-2002, 04:12 PM:

Rochester NY still has two theatres equipped for 70mm: Kodak's
"Theater on the Ridge" 2200 seat employee theatre, and Loews Webster 12-plex. Two former GCC theatres are closed, but AFAIK, the equipment is still in place.

I've heard that the International Museum of Photography at the George Eastman House hopes to renovate their Dryden Theatre, and install new 35/70 mm projectors, since they are starting to develop a 70mm print collection.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 09-20-2002, 04:39 PM:

John,

I was asked to be one of the print jurors when the New York Professional Photographers Society had their annual conference and photographic exhibition in Rochester about four years ago and everyone was invited to a special reception at Kodak. In addition to a tour of the George Eastman Museum, there was a lecture by a celebrated photographer in your theatre at the Museum
Was this,the Drydan theatre? I remember it was a good size auditorium with about 700 seats.

-Claude

Posted by Peter Kerchinsky (Member # 1098) on 09-20-2002, 07:29 PM:

John
Yes, the Seattle Cinerama ran both STAR WARS EP. 2 and SIGNS in digital projection. I guess they're killing time before opening LAWRENCE in 70 because the distrib of FOUR FEATHERS asked it be delayed because of their opening today.

Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 09-20-2002, 07:40 PM:

Steve Kraus:

Yes, The U2 can adjust lower loop while running. All Bauers from the fifties and first half sixties can. -That's B11, B14 and U2. -And i think, the brought the idea with them to those pitifull 1970-series U3 (35/70) and U4 (35 only).
U 2 is the Bauer try on doing a DP70. Solid like the Philips projector - maybe not the same steadyness in picture - and certainly not the same easy chance of format. -But still really nice. Good to see some of them still running. -Not many left, i'm afraid.
I had a pair running at The Park Theatre, Aarhus, Denmark. -They normally ran 3 shows on weekdays, 8 films fri-sat-sun including the projectionists on-the-back double feature at midnight all their life from 1967-82 /theatre closed, othervise they would still have been running. -Never any trouble. No wonder, Bauer had to close. No new maschinery needed anywhere, when they first got there !

/p.

Posted by Greg Pauley (Member # 503) on 09-20-2002, 08:01 PM:

Steve,

What's the screen size at the Senator?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 09-20-2002, 08:10 PM:

Approximately 40 feet wide (just a tad under). It is over 20 feet tall for smaller ratios (both height and width are adjusted as needed). The procenium is the limiting factor on the picture size. The picture doesn't seem small though the way it is framed out...a very nice show indeed.

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 09-20-2002, 09:37 PM:

Claude asked: "In addition to a tour of the George Eastman Museum, there was a lecture by a celebrated photographer in your theatre at the Museum. Was this,the Drydan theatre? I remember it was a good size auditorium with about 700 seats."

The Dryden Theatre was built in the early 1950's, and is part of the George Eastman House Museum. Currently equipped with a pair of Century Model C projectors, in a nitrate-certified booth:
http://www.eastman.org/
http://www.eastman.org/6_calfilm/6_index.html
http://www.eastman.org/3_histhse/3_index.html

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 09-20-2002, 09:42 PM:

Peter said "Yes, the Seattle Cinerama ran both STAR WARS EP. 2 and SIGNS in digital projection."

Thats more like running something in Barf-O-Rama than Cinerama!! You guys need to take down that Cinerama sign and forget the whole thing. What a bunch of that place is! Either do film right as the place was intended or get out of the buisness.........
Mark

Posted by Peter Kerchinsky (Member # 1098) on 09-21-2002, 04:43 AM:

Mark
Sorry that's not one of the theatres I work.
I'm a Landmark employee and we don't have any of that damn digital projection yet.
I was just sharing info from a fellow union brother who works for the AMC Cinerama.
Good night.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 09-21-2002, 07:19 AM:

Ok...the final count...13-reels (damn I recall it being 14 once upon a time...must be that whole Brand New versus restored thingy).

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 09-21-2002, 07:38 AM:

Charles,

As to the "brand new print" being an implication that it is from original elements....sez who? Brand new print means just that...this print has not been screened to the public before. At most, there has been a QC screening. With the Brand New tag, it gives the perspective patron the feeling that it isn't faded, scratched up or spliced up. Furthermore, if it becomes scratched up and otherwise damaged, you know it happened there.

Brand New print separates it from a "recently struck print" which only implies that it isn't faded but it has been "previously enjoyed."

A "Restored Print" would imply that it was a previously struck print that had been restored with a process like photoguard. As opposed to a "Restored Version" to distingquish it from it's original release.

Then there are films like Gone With the Wind where you would have to further disclaim just what era the negatives your print was struck from since it has been recut so many times.

But for you to claim that announcing a "Brand New Print" implies that it came from the original element (or the original O-Neg) is a leap. As to Lawrence, as it is currently released, most if not all started with the O-Neg, then restored to generate a new Neg.

Now if your implication is that only a Brand New Print should come from the O-Neg, then I claim you are outright wrong. Almost no films today are shown that were struck from the O-Neg but instead are dupes. What is commonly known as "EK-Prints" are the very few that are struck from the O-Neg and used just about exclusively by the studios for their screenings. And even they have opticals and such the move the image a generation away from the O-Neg.

About the only significance I'll give you to the restoration part is that the "Restored Print" of Lawrence is longer due to some scenes that were cut from the original release. In modern terms, this is the Directors Cut. Whereas I've shown the restored version to Sir David Lean (before he passed away), I think it is a safe bet he approved.

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 09-21-2002, 09:28 AM:

About the only time one will see prints struck from the "O" negs is during dailies of a film during its shooting. The "O" negs are then locked away in a fireproof vault till they are actually cut and conformed to make the printing dupes. Many times dailies look so good you'd swear they were off of 65mm negs!
Mark @ Claco

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-21-2002, 03:15 PM:

quote:
"A "Restored Print" would imply that it was a previously struck print that had been restored with a process like photoguard. As opposed to a "Restored Version" to distingquish it from it's original release. "

I think it is more proper and less confusing to refer to those two situations this way.

restored print = rejuvenated print

restored version = restored version

Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 09-21-2002, 05:43 PM:

Steve G.

Thanks for sharing the great pics. -Please come again and report about the necessity of the second dts reader and unit.

Per

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 09-21-2002, 06:23 PM:

Per said

quote:
Thanks for sharing the great pics. -Please come again and report about the necessity of the second dts reader and unit.

That was the first question I thought of: Why 2 DTS readers? But I figured maybe that's common practice with 70mm DTS. ?? Is having 2 readers for redundancy, or is there some other reason?

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 09-21-2002, 06:32 PM:

You got it. Redundancy. Since there's no analog backup on a 70mm DTS print, two readers are recommended. The two readers can drive one or two DTS units.

Regards,

Paul

Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 09-21-2002, 06:43 PM:

"The two dts readers can drive one or two dts units ????????"
Thought it should be each reader a unit to work. -Are You quite sure about this..? Two readers can't have the same offset counting and how would You then make them both sync ?

Per

Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 09-21-2002, 07:10 PM:

The Dome in LA is showing a magnetic print, BTW. Supposedly requested because they like the "warmer" sound.

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 09-21-2002, 10:54 PM:

Sorry Per, I misspoke 'er wrote. One reader can drive two DTS units with automatic switching upon failure of one unit via a failsafe board. Or, as in this case, two readers can each drive their own DTS unit.

Sorry about that, I type too fast.

Regards,

Paul

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 09-22-2002, 12:47 AM:

Actually running over two TC readers seems a bit overkill unless screening for HM The Queen. Otherwise it ought to be sufficient to simply have one available that could be put in in the very unlikely event that the primary fails. I guess I just feel bad for the print going around those small, shallow-undercut rollers unnecessarily.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 09-22-2002, 01:09 AM:

In this case, yes two readers each feeding a separate player. With the DTS system, the readers are realatively cheap. Dumping or pissing off an 800 seat show due to difficulties for lack of a back up system is silly. I ALWAYS recommend two systems for 70mm DTS.

Steve, have you ever dumped a house running 70mm DTS? For Vertigo, a press screening got dropped due to reader failure. For Titanic, the show was cancelled due to player failure. (Neither incident were at the Senator) but you live you learn...two players, two readers NO PROBLEMS.

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 09-22-2002, 05:15 AM:

I definately agree with Steve G on this one! Backup where it is the only format!
I repaired 5 DTS units last week alone. From one plex alone....4 of them had fan failure....two of the supplies were ruined as a result of running with no fan, two of them had bad "A" drives and one ole dinosaur 6 unit at another location had pin 17 in the output connector pushed back in in preventing it from switching back to SR, and it needed the drive upgrade kit installed. All easy fixes but a nusense for the theatre owners to say the least. The 4 with bad fans would have easily killed a 70mm performance.......
Mark @ Claco

Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 09-22-2002, 06:41 PM:

Huh... Relatively cheap...

I don't wanna piss of those 88 patrons, i've got room for, either, but i have been offered a maximum 3 shows run of 70mm dts Play Time (Jacques Tati), and have no 70mm platter. -That means 2 tcr for each dp70 plus an extra dts unit, and there are just one 70dts print available in Denmark, beside this one on loan from Paris. -The other one is Titanic. -No more tickets to be sailed home on that one, I think...

Is is going to be heart or brain. -It's definitely not for the money.
Being a special event, i might get away with asking 20 $ a head, still without making the extra gear look cheap. But it sure would be great sport !

The Copenhagen Imperial Bio ran Titanic premiere in 70 dts, using platter and only one dts reader. -First couple of times bad - but after installing several wapour machines (steam, airwash, what do you call it) the static went away, and they had no more drop-outs. -But, as my kind tech says: "Going over the Atlantic on one engine"...

Better think it over once more.

Per

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 09-22-2002, 08:11 PM:

I said relatively...A DTS 70mm reader is FAR less than a single 6-track mag cluster. DTS offers just the player for less than a system. Or, for the duration of the run, borrow a player as a back up.

In a single, one doesn't have the option of offering any other shows or using one screen's equipment to repair anothers...everything has to be perfect on every show.

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 09-22-2002, 10:05 PM:

The last time I saw figures on it DTS-6 players were $5900, the 35mm readers were $800 and the 70mm readers $1300. Are those prices still current?

Also, which kind of DTS player is more reliable? The original 2 drive units or the newer 3 drive variety? The Carmike 8 here in Lawton has three DTS-6 players and five DTS-6D units. Three of the 6D units have drives that have went on the fritz and need replacement kits. But the original two that were installed in this theater when it opened in 1994 have not had a single problem at all.

Regarding 70mm capability in Dallas, there used to be a pretty good number of theaters with it. Lots of UA locations, some from AMC, some from Loews and the best ones maintained by General Cinemas (with the Northpark 1-2 towering above all others in quality). But, yeah, many of the 70mm capable places have been replaced by 35mm-only stadium seated theaters. When the AMC Grand 24 opened in 1995, my heart sank from the place having nothing for 70mm. It was the start of a very negatively destructive trend.

As for 70mm (mag capable or DTS) being completely gone in Dallas, I thought there were still a few screens left. Didn't the Inwood theater have a 70mm screen? What about the UA Plaza, AMC Glen Lakes 8 or the Loews Preston/Park in Plano? 70mm all gone there?

Whatever this third 70mm DTS capable screen may be in Dallas, I really hope it happens. Instead of embracing "digital projection" commercial theaters need to try to bring 70mm back to life. On occaision I have seen some people argue for it (such as some executive from Edwards theaters saying 70mm is needed for giant stadium seated theaters in a Kodak Reel Notes issue).

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-22-2002, 10:44 PM:

Bobby,

Plaza's 70mm stuff has been mostly stripped last time I saw. I don't know why it would have been put back since they haven't run 70mm since I last was up there.

Glen Lakes 70mm stuff never worked properly from the start. They mutilated 70mm there. Last I saw (again a few years ago) the 70mm components had been stripped.

The other theaters you list have been closed or were stripped a long, long time ago. There are only the ones I listed.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 09-22-2002, 11:24 PM:

Bobby,

The "street" prices of the units you listed are often less. And for a player only DTS-6D (as the back up) is quite a bit less).

As to reliability, I'll take an original caddy drive over any of the caddyless drives currently in use. I don't think DTS had any say in this though...who makes Caddy Drive units anymore? The original DTS-6 had nice Jensen tranformer outputs the 6-D does not but I believe it has a higher potential output level.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 09-23-2002, 12:19 AM:

QUOTE:

quote:
When the AMC Grand 24 opened in 1995, my heart sank from the place having nothing for 70mm. It was the start of a very negatively destructive trend.

Actually, the trend started when studios eliminated 70mm prints because they thought there was only a need for one "gimmick" at a time, and many studio chiefs had convinced themselves that sound was the only reason for 70mm prints in the first place. Sound techs at studios were also under this mistaken belief as well. Therefore, theatres weren't going to invest in the equipment if they couldn't even get their hands on the prints.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 09-23-2002, 12:40 AM:

It is a no-brainer the movie studios had been cutting way back on 70mm prints over the availability of 35mm with digital sound. But cutting back on prints is one thing. Taking out the 70mm projection infrastructure itself is another. If there are next to no commercial theaters able to handle 70mm, then that gives any movie studio the perfect argument to prevent any filmmaker from shooting a new movie in 70mm format. And that just sucks.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 09-23-2002, 02:29 AM:

For those on this side of the pond who can't make it to the Senator, a 1988 70mm mag print of the Harris restoration of Lawrence will be showing at City Screen, York (UK) on Sunday 13 October. Advance bookings can be made on 01904 541144; more information here.

Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 09-23-2002, 05:31 AM:

Steve

I must try the loan or rental version somewhere.
The actual screen (#1) has the good old dts-6, and when screen #2 went dts, this was sold out, and i got the 6-d (which had to have new drives 1½ years later), and as far as i understand, the two dts units for a back-up must be alike. If that is not right, please let me now, cause, then the problem is just 2 x 2 readers (RELATIVELY cheap)...

When i bought my platters, there were only three ( 3 !) 70mm prints in cirkulation in Denmark and no distributor would promise any new ones to come, and i decided that IF it should happen, i would gladly run c/o for a month or two for what i could save by buying 35mm platters only. -DTS/70 was not up a that time to give ideas...

Yes - i have had a price about 1450 Euro on the reader - so the prices seems to be unaltered. -And 4 times 1450 - that's enough for those three runs, so please someone tell me, you have experimented with dts-6 and 6-d together - with luck !

Per

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 09-23-2002, 06:36 AM:

Depending on how you interface, you CAN do a 6 and 6D together. When using a double reader system, neither players "knows" about the other. Each reader feeds its own player. As to the audio, they are daisy chained through the two units. The 6 has it's own relays, the 6D uses external relay on a breakout board.

DTS does manufacture a "failsafe" board to allow one reader to fead both players (works for changeover houses too...just one reader per projector). The failsafe boards are different for the 6 and 6D, as I recall.

Depending on your host processor, you will want to get the logic right. For a CP-200, it is easy...since you are on the JM-11 and JM-21 signal path, the daisy chain method of the audio takes care of always having sound if either player is playing...for the subwoofer and the Cat. 560, you will need to have a set of dry contacts for each player to have it switch to Digital subwoofer (again, both players can provide this with the appropriate breakout board or failsafe board).

For other processors, it can be more complicated on the logic standpoint. For that I would use the DTS failsafe board and make custom cables. That is, if you get the 6D failsafe board, have the 6 with a custom cable for the logic to match the 6D's connectors.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 09-23-2002, 08:34 AM:

Thanks again, Steve

CP 200 did never reach Malling - A CP 65 is doing the job here, -doing it very well for 10 years now.

Thank God for Kinoton and Herr Mueller - This is not for me alone to do. -But still worth trying, i think.

Per

Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 09-23-2002, 11:58 AM:

Quote

quote:
Instead of embracing "digital projection" commercial theaters need to try to bring 70mm back to life.

Actually, with the tiny amount of screens that installed DLP for Star Wars: AOTC, I would hardly say that exhibitors embraced it. And the only reason it showed in DLP at all was because Lucas, not the theatres, pushed it. And the same thing would happen with 70mm. If the studios pushed it, then some theatres would install it. If Lucas was sky high on 70mm, then he could have gotten exhibitors top show it as well. Many theatres installed 70mm for the big explosion of 70mm prints in the 80's, yet many of these theatres couldn't get hold of 70mm prints at all, having to settle with 35mm. The studios aren't going to say, "hey there are a lot of 70mm screens out there, we need to get 70mm prints in there." It happens the opposite way. Yes, the large number of theatres with 70mm let the distributors open with as many 70mm prints as they were interested in striking, but bottom line, they still would limit that number for most releases.

quote:
If there are next to no commercial theaters able to handle 70mm, then that gives any movie studio the perfect argument to prevent any filmmaker from shooting a new movie in 70mm format.

What argument did the studios have to not shoot in 70mm when the country was saturated with 70mm screens? Very little 70mm prodution going on then. Most of it from indie sources (Baraka, Hamlet, Little Buddha). Just Far and Away (and the "live action" material in Tron). And some of the lack of interest seems to be with the filmmakers themselves. If Ron Howard could get the OK to shoot in 65mm, surely Steven Spielberg could have if he had wanted to. Yet he hasn't. I can't remember the article, but years ago (late 80's), MGM asked filmmakers to consider the possibility of budgeting their movies to include 65mm production. No takers.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 09-23-2002, 05:17 PM:

When did MGM ask filmmakers to budget for 70mm? I seem to remember MGM being the ones that got Douglas Trumbull so disillusioned about the commercial filmmaking process that he retired from doing any regular film work to concentrate on ride films. He wanted to shoot "Brainstorm" entirely in Showscan, but wound up having the project whittled down to a mix of 35mm and 65mm.

What argument did the studios have in the 1980's not to shoot in 70mm? Many. Most of the camera systems around at that time were very old. 65mm film stocks were very limited. So were the lenses. Steven Spielberg explored the possibility of shooting "Empire of the Sun" in 65mm. After examining what cameras and equipment were available the idea proved infeasible.

In 1989, theatrical 65mm camera systems began a dramatic improvement when Arri released their model 765 camera. Wilcam came out with a new Showscan camera. Panavision developed the Super Panaflex in the early 1990s. These modern camera systems, the lenses that go with them and the newer film stocks Kodak developed have largely gone wasted.

Nearly all of it is to blame for 35mm digital sound print formats being developed at the same time. At least Cinema Digital Sound had a 70mm version. But Dolby has never had any plans on accomodating the 70mm gauge with a 70mm version of Dolby Digital. Same goes for Sony, even with all their nostalgic anecdotes about Todd-AO and its "five up front" audio format. Both companies may have patents on the books about a 70mm SRD or 70mm SDDS process. But they have made no moves to develop film readers or the items needed to get the audio bitstreams printed onto 70mm.

The film exhibitors themselves are just hammering the final nails into the coffin of the glorious format by removing all the 70mm projection hardware.

Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 09-23-2002, 05:54 PM:

As stated in my previous post, I read this in the late 80's (maybe VERY early 90's). BRAINSTORM was under production in 1981. MGM was basically saying they would consider 65mm production if budgeted in the proposals.

BTW, Douglas Trumball doesn't seem to have a problem with shooting electronically these days:
http://www.filmandvideomagazine.com/Htm/homeset.htm

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 09-23-2002, 08:09 PM:

I wasn't questioning the wisdom of having backups, only whether I would bother with it in place and threading through it each show when this mode of failure would seem low enough probability and a show would be down only briefly while it was swapped out. Then again, if you'd still want the 2nd player "live" there is the tradeoff of whether to just go ahead and set up as you have done or bother with the TC splitter accessory as an extra expense and another thing that can go wrong.

Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 09-24-2002, 05:10 AM:

Steve ( & Steve )

DTS Paris has now told me, that Play Time in 70mm has been running in 6 different theatres since the Cannes Festival, bookings warying from 2 to 6 weeks. All using one reader/unit only, and no failures.
That's comforting. -and the solution with an extra reader, ready to chance, must be enough for a small budget then.

Then i only need a final "go" from the distributor in Paris. -Hope to show Play Time medio november --on the glorious 15 feet giant screen and allmost full stereofonic sound --

Next dream would be having both Patton and LOA coming this way, but the chances are less than small, i'm afraid.

Per

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-24-2002, 05:12 AM:

Per, for your special shows, you might want to consider borrowing a UPS battery backup off of someone's computer to plug the dts unit in to. Should there be a line level fluctuation that would make the dts glitch, the UPS will prevent it and keep your show on screen. If you're going to be using one deck, it's cheap insurance.

Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 09-24-2002, 09:23 AM:

Brad>> And a Film-Tech Flux Capacitor, maybe...
Now it really sounds fun...
Who was it, talking about nostagia a happy times no long ago - Just put in the film and push the button, Max !

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 09-24-2002, 06:09 PM:

Question for anyone who's actually seen one of the new LoA 70mm prints...

I'm sitting here listening to the LoA Original Soundtrack CD, "newly restored edition", (c)1990 Arista Records, on Varese Sarabande #VSD-5263. This is probably the version of the musical score that was used for the 1989/1990 reissue/restoration of LoA. I saw one of those shows in L.A. in 70mm 6-Track Dolby. My memory of that show is that the image quality was astounding, but the music sounded shrill and harsh to me. I attributed this mostly to the theater's sound system. Now I'm listening to this CD, and it sounds very similar: kind of harsh, shrill, and even somewhat distorted. It's very listenable, but far from perfect.

Can anyone characterize the sound quality, especially the music, from the newly-minted LoA prints currently making the rounds?

And has anyone had the luxury of comparing the sound of the mag tracks at the Dome in L.A. to its DTS counterpart?

Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 09-24-2002, 09:43 PM:

Well, let's wait till it opens tommorow at the Dome to find out!

As for me, Im planning to see it Saturday (along with 2001 and the "Brand New" 70mm print of "Hello, Dolly."

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 09-24-2002, 11:05 PM:

Remember of course that Patton, if you get it, is 6-track Special Venue DTS. No big deal though if you have the newer player and the full B chain.

Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 09-25-2002, 05:21 AM:

"Brand-new Dolly" - My god ! Where is that...
Talk about beautiful ToddAO pictures - and great sound.
Do enjoy !

Per

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 09-25-2002, 07:25 AM:

Hello Dolly!

http://www.egyptiantheatre.com/archive1999/2002/70mm.htm

Posted by Thomas Hauerslev (Member # 566) on 09-25-2002, 07:59 AM:

Per,

Just to let you know, you have the info right here in your back yard at: 70mm screenings

------------------
---------

Cheers, Thomas
www.in70mm.com
www.dp70.com
www.70mm.dk

Posted by Bernard Tonks (Member # 809) on 09-25-2002, 08:45 AM:

I would like to see in 70mm again is "Doctor Zhivago". I first saw this film at the Empire Theatre, Leicester Square. Picture and sound was still in perfect condition after a run of nearly three years. Philips DP 70s.

Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 09-25-2002, 10:01 AM:

Thomas,

are you sure about the DTS format for 2001? THE last time the Cinemateque showed the new print, it was Dolby SR encoded Todd-AO format mag tracks. The same was true of the other print circulating on the East Coast.
And the Dome's showing of Lawrence of Arabia is also 6-track mag, although some of the new prints are DTS.

Posted by Charles Everett (Member # 889) on 09-25-2002, 02:49 PM:

Lawrence of Arabia finally opens today in NYC. The ad in this week's Village Voice answers our questions:

The 40th Anniversary Presentation
Newly Remastered Digital Sound. Fresh 70mm Prints in Select Locations.

And yes, the Ziegfeld will run Lawrence in 70mm/DTS.

Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 09-25-2002, 08:52 PM:

Steve (K): Patton is not alone: Play Time is available in both dts systems 5.1. and 6.0. - Your choise, they say in Paris.
The CP 65 again sets my limits - and a 200 is not easy to dig up around here...
And by the way

, latest message from Paris: I will have to wait for Play Time until december, because You guys over there are going to have the print first !! But run i will !

Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 09-25-2002, 09:08 PM:

DOLLY was my last 70mm before closing down the theatre of my dreams, the Tre Falke /Three Falcons, Copenhagen.
A three-month newspaper lock-out took away my audience together with my savings...
Last screening (april 1981) for 7 patrons and 969 empty seats.
The ToddAO print from 1970 first-run was still as new that evening, and less than fourteen days later, it was junked together with a dozen or so other 70mm prints. -"You were the only one, who cared to run them..." Did some crying that week - for several reasons !

Thomas tells You the story on his great site...

/p.

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 09-25-2002, 10:27 PM:

Well on Patton at least, this is such a terrific film that I would not let anything stand in the way of playing it. If you have to combine 5 screen channels into 3 it would not be ideal but certainly forgiveable if it makes the difference to be able to play this awesome film.

Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 09-26-2002, 08:40 AM:

Never seen Patton in 70 - All we got back then was two 35mag/opt, and they both had a hearable 12kHz - never heard it whistling on any other film.
But even in 35 (must have been first generation printing) it was so unbelieably sharp - every thread in the generals shirt could be seen. It must be one hell of a film, when done right in right format...

/p.

Posted by Mike Heenan (Member # 392) on 09-27-2002, 02:07 AM:

Anyone know how long LOA will be at the Cinerama Dome? The website doesn't really specify, unless I am not looking in the right place.

Posted by Thomas Hauerslev (Member # 566) on 09-27-2002, 07:40 AM:

Per, your last film in 70mm at 3 Falke Bio appears to be "Doctor Doolittle".

Have a look at this

------------------
Cheers, Thomas
www.in70mm.com
www.dp70.com
www.70mm.dk

Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 09-27-2002, 09:41 AM:

Thomas - thow is a (hva faen hedder nisse på udenlandsk/haven't got the english word)who needs to do Your homework. Dolittle never came up that summer. Dolly was final 70mm, followed by 35mm China Syndrome.
Believe me !

Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 09-30-2002, 06:44 PM:

Actuality statement:

My dts/70 timecode readers will be installed medio october.
Then we'll only be needing one or two updated local distributors to come up with something to run !!

Ready when You are, Mr deMille !

Per

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 09-30-2002, 07:31 PM:

Per,
Actually Mr. DeMille used Perspecta Sound. So be ready for that too while you are busy equipping your cinema!!
Mark @ CLACO

Posted by Jonathan M. Crist (Member # 413) on 09-30-2002, 07:50 PM:

Sadly, both the Tues & Thurs evening shows of LOA this week at the Senator have been pre-empted so that they can have special showings of Red Dragon

Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 10-01-2002, 04:03 AM:

Hi,

Perspecta... That must the one format, i would have less use of than dts70. Just once, i've hold a perspecta print in my litlle stinky fingers, -i believe it was Kurosawa's Yojimbo sometime in '75...

Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 10-01-2002, 03:09 PM:

I just saw a 70mm/DTS print of Lawrence of Arabia last night at the Castro Theatre in San Francisco. They had an organist before the show. I know the projectionist so we sat in the front row of the unused balcony.

I ran a 70mm/6-track Mag SR print of Lawrence for 8-weeks in 1990 at Landmark's Esquire Theatre in Denver where I was the manager. It was the highlight of my career. Although I got to see every scenen (confirmed last night), I never got to sit through the whole thing. So last night was the first time I sat through the whole film.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 10-01-2002, 03:35 PM:

One of my Kodak colleagues just returned from a business trip to Los Angeles. He got to see "Lawrence of Arabia" at the Dome, and "Hello Dolly" at the Egyptian. Plus "behind the scenes" tours. I'm envious!

BTW, he really enjoyed both, but said "Hello Dolly!" was the highlight of the trip.

Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 10-02-2002, 05:15 PM:

Anyone uttering one nice word about dogme films should be forced to watch "Dolly".

Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 10-02-2002, 06:48 PM:

I've always seen Dogma films as being "anti-film." Although I DID enjoy "Italian for Beginners."

Posted by Jonathan M. Crist (Member # 413) on 10-03-2002, 12:28 AM:

Got to see the 70MM LOA in DTS at the Senator at last night's final screening. The print is absolutely stunning.

One curious item: Although the Senator has a second DTS reader and player unit for the 70MM DTS backup, Columbia refused to send them a second set of discs. Luckily everything worked fine.

I was told that the Senator's print of LOA is not currently scheduled to go anywhere in the immediate future and will probably sit there at the Senator for awhile. Sounds like an opportunity for someone.

Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 10-03-2002, 01:06 PM:

"Refused to send extra discs" ?????

And now for Mr Guttag for a remark.

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 10-03-2002, 07:13 PM:

A projectionist friend of mine just told me that the Cinerama Dome
damaged some of the print of "Lawrence of Arabia". He was in the
theatre to see the film and they had scratched two reels. And on another show they started the show with the film flopped.

Just think all that for $14.00 dollars.

Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 10-03-2002, 07:23 PM:

Language help, please: "The film flopped" ??

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 10-03-2002, 07:32 PM:

They threaded the film backwards.

Posted by Thomas Hauerslev (Member # 566) on 10-04-2002, 06:07 AM:

A list of which 70mm projectors used in Denmark 1958 - 2002 can be found here

------------------
Cheers, Thomas
www.in70mm.com
www.dp70.com
www.70mm.dk

Posted by Darren Briggs (Member # 1071) on 10-04-2002, 04:35 PM:

Cant you just do a copy of the DTS disc so you have two?
I know this is probably breaking some law or two, but it would give you a back-up disc, and its no use to anyone, but cinemas to play a film with DTS sound.

????
Darren

Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 10-04-2002, 05:03 PM:

Darren: Yes, You can - and - Yes, it is some kind of violation -
but they'll have to find out You did it, before they can come and spank You !

Posted by Darren Briggs (Member # 1071) on 10-06-2002, 08:22 AM:

Heres Part 2 of a 1989 print of Lawrence just before i test ran it today.

Posted by Darren Briggs (Member # 1071) on 10-06-2002, 08:28 AM:

Just to make it clear, i dont have DTS and havnt copyied any discs!
So Mrs Karen at DTS dont shout at me ! lol

Darren

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 10-06-2002, 09:52 AM:

Of course if the studio refused to send a second set of disks then ......and who would know anyway??
Mark

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-06-2002, 03:40 PM:

Darren, you need to fix your broken image link. All of the info you need to troubleshoot it is right there on the upload instruction page. You just need to actually read it without assuming you know how to do it and then fix your post. I cannot keep going back and fixing everyone's mistakes. What is especially aggravating to me on this one is that you went back a few minutes later and posted another reply (this is a no no, read the FAQ) and yet somehow failed to notice your image link was not done properly on the first post.

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 10-06-2002, 05:07 PM:

It's highly unlikely that DTS is going to mind actions taken that increase their reliability especially in a situation where there is no other backup and a failure will damage their reputation. But they aren't the copyright holder and are not in a position to grant permission.

Posted by Jonathan M. Crist (Member # 413) on 11-02-2002, 04:59 PM:

The Senator will bring back Lawrence in 70MM for one additional week beginning Noevember 08, 2002 before they start HP2.

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 11-03-2002, 07:35 PM:

Is it actually illegal to make a backup copy of a dts disc if you have the original? I am not sure, but I don`t think it would be illegal here. After all, it is the content that you are renting, the disc is only the medium. A print with dts timecode but no disc is not complete.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-04-2002, 12:44 AM:

For those with the big bladders...go see the film at the Senator and at the Uptown. Compare the DTS sound (Senator) to the Mag sound (Uptown)!

To my eyes, the Mag print has a sharper picture. Why, I don't know.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

Posted by Lionel Fouillen (Member # 1475) on 11-04-2002, 08:37 AM:

Regarding David's comment about the harsh music. Well, I seem to own the same audio CD version as yours and I agree with you, but isn't the technology limitations of the 1960's responsible for this? Digital remastering can do good, but not add quality where it was missing from the beginning.

I saw the Editor's Cut of LoA in 70mm in the summer of 1989 at the late Odeon Marble Arch on what was the best remaining 70mm screen of London. The show was awesome.

About one year after, it was also exhibited in Belgium (where I live). I saw it again then at the Palace in Liege on their small flat screen but it was only a single performance one evening only. It was in 70mm and the print had already been showed the week before at the Kinepolis in Brussels presumably. The whole film was scratched. Just one thick green scratch in the right part of the picture. What a shame...

And Per, the love of 70mm doesn't prevent me from loving Dogma films, specially "Festen".

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 11-04-2002, 10:16 AM:

I saw LoA and some other 70mm presentations at the Odeon Marble Arch too. It is a shame that they have demolished the large screen. I have been told that the theater was split up into several smaller screens.
If I remember correctly, the old Marble Arch`s farewell performance was LoA too, and they reset the curvature of the screen because David Lean had said it would fit the process the movie was filmed in better.

Posted by Lionel Fouillen (Member # 1475) on 11-04-2002, 10:49 AM:

Yes, the Odeon Marble Arch was split into 5 cinemas with a seating capacity ranging from 123 to 256 in 1996. The day following my viewing of LoA, the film was transferred to the Cannon in Shaftesbury Avenue. At this Odeon, I also saw Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom in 70mm. And I saw 2 films in 35mm: the restored version of Gone with the Wind (projected in 1.66 on the full 70mm screen height) and Peter's Friends (projected in 1.85 on a lower screen height).

Posted by Paul Vollmers (Member # 927) on 11-26-2002, 06:05 AM:

70mm DTS........

Does anybody have a photo of some 70mm strip showing the DTS track in place of the 6 track mag????????
I've never seen this..........and thought it would be interesting to some.
I have a Norelco DP70 with 6 track mag.

Thanks,

Paul--

Posted by Thomas Hauerslev (Member # 566) on 11-26-2002, 06:16 AM:

Check this