No I am not...
What I am curious about though is how come in this day and age people cannot make a joke without someone else feeling offended bye it? IMO unless someone is specifically attacking YOU people need to chill out. It kills me these people who complain that Howard Stern or Opie and Anthony offend them but they can not seem to just CHANGE THE CHANNEL! I am a fan of Opie and Anthony they made me laugh on my way to work now I cannot laugh on my way to work because someone was "offended" by a radio stunt and they got cancelled. I do not think it is right that someone else bieng offended has led to the decision that I (who was not offended) now cannot listen to them! I do not want to turn this into an argument about what they did what I am looking for is a discussion on what everyone feels about how far people's right to be offended goes? Like why is it ok to think a movie should be censored because of a joke about a civil rights activist?
I promise I will not be offended by anyones responses
One night at the radio station, I thought one of our DJ's was making a commercial in the production room. When some of the DJs botch it up, they definately "add Lib" with nasty obscene words. Back in the cart deck days, they usually yanked the cart out of the cart deck and threw the cart up against the wall, or promptly run it on the bulk eraser.
At that radio station, we used a computer with recording software to eliminate the carts and cart decks. One night, I heard these grossly worded flubs on the station monitors. I thought I just might step into the production room to tell the DJ to cool it. When I opened the door to the Production room, there was nobody in it!!!!
Since we were automated, I instantly realized that this stuff was being broadcasted. I ran into the control room to override it, but by time I got to the control room, it was too late.
About two seconds later, the telephones lit up like a Christmas tree with people calling in to say they were offended. Mind you, this stuff was being broadcasted for at least 10 minutes...
As it turns out, the new computer was "listening" and somehow, the ad was programmed into a slot in error.
Well anyway, the person who made the ad was required to make a public apology, plus there was some other harsh disiplinary actions administered by the station's General Manager.
It is funny that nobody complained until after the spot was aired. A whole 10 minutes? That's insane!
Radio and television station employees really have to be on their toes at all times. I think just about every person in a radio station got caught with an "Open Microphone" -- including me! And I am just a pukey engineer that is supposed to know better.
I remember a local TV station sometime ago where the engineering gang was supposedly talking through engineering talk-back communication links within the studio and engineering facilities. It was really an interesting conversation. That went on for at least 20 minutes before someone found out it was being broadcasted. You guessed it....just about every potty-mouthed word was said. I wonder where or who they learned them from? 
(Are you offended yet? 
)
I am familiar with the Opie and Anthony show. I have no idea why they were pulled, but would be interested in hearing why (even though this thread will wander because of it). O&A used to air on 105.3FM here in the Dallas area at night. Now we have to put up with Tom Lycos since O&A got pulled. <insert barfing smiley here> To me, Tom has got to be one of the most cocky and annoying people on the planet. He also has a serious speech problem. He can't finish two sentences in less than a minute, and the way he delivers his dialogue is always in a demeaning / "talking down to the listener" tone that I find annoying. Almost "offensive", but not really. He's just an ass. My solution? I turn the radio off when he comes on. Big deal, waaaah. I'll get over it.
Here in Dallas we have Russ Martin, who has got to be the best radio personality of all time. I'll bet within two years he is syndicated across the country. Watch for him, but only listen if you have a sense of humor. If you don't have a sense of humor, DO make it a point to listen and call in to talk to him. It's people without a sense of humor that make his show. Russ Martin is the Seinfeld of radio. He can get on there and talk for 4 hours about absolutely nothing, yet you will be glued to the radio the entire time.
www.russmartin.com
I think that you are missing the point, Sean. If Opie and Anthony had confined themselves to their radio show, that would be one thing, they've gotten away with worse before. But when their smarmy bullcrap starts spilling over into the general public in such a way that you CAN'T avoid it as you go about your business, and in such a disgusting and distasteful manner, that is quite another. Yes, you can change the radio dial, but you can't "change the channel" at your place of worship to avoid this stuff when it is happening right before your eyes. What they did at St. Patrick's may sound funny to read about, or to listen to on the radio. But if you were a communicant of the church, how would you feel if you stumbled upon these two hillbilly pinheads going at it in the pews, as a radio stunt? I think the answer is "outraged".
I, for one, am glad they got canned. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
I heard those two when I was passing through NY a few months back. They were so funny, even though I am not too surprised by the stunt they tried to pull. Oh well...
But Sean is right, why should a show be cancelled because one person is OFFENDED and the rest of us just don't care? IMHO, the people who don't want to HEAR, SEE, TASTE, TOUCH or even SMELL something that is offending should just move on... find something else to do...
Seriously, though. If someone chooses not to hear/read/watch/listen to something because it offends them, that's their option. If these same people demand that such works should not be seen by others because of what they find offensive, then they are nutty people who need to stay put in their homes and away from any form of communication. (I hope I have not offended anyone with that statement!)
Being at a University, I always see someone yelling or protesting or passing out fliers about one thing or another. I usually just ignore them and go about my business, but on the rare occasion when I stop to talk to one of them, I find out they don't know what the hell they are talking about anyway. Some people find the most absurd things offensive, and half the time it's because they don't understand what it is or why it offends them, it just does.
When something offends someone, they are ready to grab a pen and paper and write out their complaint in 500 words or more to anyone whom they think will care, but if there should be something that pleases them, they won't lift a finger to compliment anyone. They simply vent their anger and/or opposition for attention.
Me? Nothing offends me. Personal attacks, maybe, but nothing in general.
=TMP=
I'm a David Letterman fan who happens to be Catholic, which means I've been putting up with nightly St. Patrick's Cathedral/public sex/groping priest jokes for the past 3 months, at least. Some are funny, some are not. But I'm still a fan and have written no angry letters to the network. There are more important things to worry about.
(That's not to say I don't care about the two pinheads who were having sex in the cathedral. But they will get their reward...someday.)
LET ME RESTATE WHAT THEY DID...
They convinced a couple to either have or fake sex on a holy catholic holiday in a catholic cathedral. IN A CATHOLIC CATHEDRAL.
They no longer were just in thier studio. Now they went onto private property, unannounced, and without permission, broadcast from remote, WITOUT PERMISSION, either an act or simulated act, from within a FRIGGIN CHURCH.
Maybe you aren't religeous. Maybe you are. Would you want someone just coming over and start having sex in your church for a radio stunt? You can't just turn the channel.
OPEN YOUR FRIGGIN EYES!!!
What was done violated not just common decency, but private property rights. It is one thing to pretend to do this, and all from the comfort of the studio, but to actually go ON SITE and do it, that involves crudeness to a whole new level.
Not only will this couple and both Opie and Anthony get thiers, but anyone who thought that this was just harmless fun? Start praying to whomever you believe in 'cause your sole(sic) is in for some hurt!
Dave (bastard son of barney) 
If you listen to the actual broadcast of the Opie and Anthony incident, there's actually nothing much to complain about. If the FCC rules just on what was heard on the radio, there probably won't even be a fine. Much worse is heard every day.
But the problem is that O&A hosted a contest that was sponsored by Sam Adams Beer (Sex For Sam #3). In order to win the contest, one had to perform an illegal act (sex in public.) That's where O&A and station management blew it.
In addition, it was reported today that the couple in question also had sex at or in front of FAO Schwartz, the toy store. In my opinion, this is even worse than having sex at St. Patrick's because there was a greater likelihood of children viewing the act.
The other issue is whether you believe radio stations should operate in the public interest or whether "anything goes" as long as it gets an audience. I don't believe in government censorship. But I do believe that station management and program directors should do their job. And I don't think it's too hard too figure out what is acceptable for broadcast.
The problem with shock-jock radio is that you always have to push to be more shocking. The day after the St. Patrick's incident, I listened to a repeat broadcast of O&A. In this broadcast, a woman called in, extremely upset with their antics and disrespect for women. They asked her if she had kids. She said she had two daughters, ages 8 and 10. O&A told her, "well when your daughters turn 18, guys just like us are going to F them in the A real hard!" Is this really what we now consider to be professional broadcasting?
Before deregulation, for the most part, broadcasters had some pride in what they broadcast. Today, all broadcasters care about is the next quarter's stock price. So should our entire society be overwhelmed with negativity and pornography just because it gets an audience? I find it shocking that we are willing to let our culture be hijacked by those who only want to appeal to the instincts of immature high school boys.
In my view, the airwaves belong to the public and radio stations should have to operate in the public interest. This is different than a movie or a book because those are totally private industries -- the public doesn't own the paper or the printing press or the movie studio or theatre.
It’s all moot anyway. It’s all over for extreme shock-jock radio. A west-coast shock jock got fired today for doing a satire about kidnapping and sex with children. Advertisers are running away from it and that’s what counts in the long run. And I'm not sorry to see it go. Most of the extreme shock-jocks were not radio professionals and had little experience. That's why they didn't know where to draw the line.
To kill time, these fellows did a little router hacking and dialed up the American triple-extasy channel to watch some hardcore porn via satellite. And they did so for about half an hour --until they realized it was going out over the air.
It was only when they restored normal programming that the complaints rang in. Maybe the complaints came in because the fellows took the "good stuff" off the air. That might have been the point of view for those watching at that hour of night. Needless to say, the guys got promptly fired over it. Man, I don't know how anyone would live down a mistake like that. I would get the heebee-jeebees if I were directing a news cut-in and didn't hit the terminal break on time.
It's probably hard for people to think a radio station could get you excited about music, but at the time very few stations would play the stuff we consider classic today; in fact, they helped make some groups classic. Groups like Traffic, Mountain, Velvet Underground, Cream were just considered "hippie-shit" by most other stations. WNEW was one of the first stations to play the long version of songs, and without the DJ's making joke comments while it's playing. They encouraged DJ's to tell listeners a little about the groups/artists they played, and let the DJ's talk a little about themselves.
Times change, and WNEW finally went all talk since they were loosing money. I don't really blame the owners for that. But, there was a guy there who was the general manager at WNEW since 1967 and they let him go about the same time as they hired Opie and Anthony. O&A later said "Yeah, we got rid of that old fart!" Well, now O&A are gone, and they deserve to be dumped. At least the general manager went with dignity. What O&A did at St. Patrick's was stupid, but by itself wasn't the worst thing I ever heard of. O&A were just mean, and most of their jokes were always put-down humor at someone else's expense, ie: O&A *did* attack people personally. They made their own rope and hung themeslves with it. It was a long time comming.
It's a little weird to see the "high" and the "low" of a radio station.
(I thought I asked this not to turn into an O&A thread it was just my example, I am offended you guys wouldnt heed to my wishes)
Ok... A few facts...
Opie and Anthony ARE NOT TERMINATED from Infinity Broadcasting. Rumor is that they are going to keep them under contract AND PAY THEM so they cannot go to another company (Clear Channel... cough) in the morning and eat Howard Stern for Breakfast.
Some people get it and some dont. I got it. They were funny it all depends on your sense of humor but i have every right to like them just as much as anyone does to hate them.
moving foward...
What about the Barbershop thing. What do you think about the Reverand Jessie Jackson demanding that the studio edit the film???
Oh.. and Brad I get called that a lot I think its a nickname or something
quote:
Some people get it and some dont. I got it. They were funny it all depends on your sense of humor but i have every right to like them just as much as anyone does to hate them.
If your sense of humor is seeing just how close you come to getting locked in jail for public lewdness and child endangerment, then more power to ya. If you got it, then I am sorry, because I do not see the humor in disgracing yourself in public and the chance of going to jail for a while and possible permantly screw with some childrens brains. But like you said, some people just don't get it.
As for you have every right to like them as anyone has as much right to hate them? Who said hate? I never said I hated them. I don't have to hate in order to not like. There are varying degrees of grey here. When someone goes to far and intrudes upon my right of space and decency, then that is too far. If I cannot just turn off the radio, then that is too far. If they wanted to keep it confined to a studio somewhere and just keep it a bit surreal rather than making it real, then that is not a problem for me.
I sincerely doubt that even you would find it funny for someone to come into your house while you were sleeping and started jerking each other off on your couch for a radio gag. No that didn't happen, but where does it stop?
I am glad that you are standing by your convictions in that you do not change your mind at all for anyone or any reason. That level headed straight forward thinking keeps most people on top of the ladder of life. Let it be a strong point for you. Just remember that most people that disagree with you are not in exact opposite, but just may be slightly left or right of your position.
I am for freedom of anything, so long as it is not an unauthorized intrusion into anyone else. If they can turn it off, more power to the shock jocks.
Dave
As a theatre manager if someone came in to my theatre and pulled this stunt I would probably be angry, I would certainly call the police and ban the participants from entering the building, and if I could file charges against the people that did it I would, It is my responsibility, same as the catholic church. What I would not do is start a crusade to get people who werent there with them fired from thier job no matter how distasteful i think they are. I would stop with the individuals who violated my property I would not take it that step one further that they did where it is now affecting other people who may have enjoyed the show.
Just so you know I completely understand and respect your opinion you make for a very good debate In all honesty my sense of humor is not geared so much to the gross sexual stuff it is more towards the other stuff they do. Take for an example um... "Not another teen movie" a lot of people saw this as nothing but a grossout comedy, I was able to look past that more and pay attention to the spoofing of "teen" movies and I loved it, sometimes if you can look past the grossout and sexual stuff you may find some very funny things. Its the same with O&A and even Howard Stern in his day. Hell to me private parts was a touching love story
Having said that...
I cant believe that after 2 years I finnally started a thread that got more than 2 replies!!!
OK! TERRIFIC!
Now does anyone have a comment about the Barbershop situation?
I also like Mark & Brian from LA. I have a couple of their CDs. Some of their stuff is well, kinda stupid, but when they are "on," they can make you fall on the floor laughing.
quote:
Some people get it and some dont. I got it. They were funny it all depends on your sense of humor but i have every right to like them just as much as anyone does to hate them.
I think you're still missing the point. The O&A show had a contest in which the only way to win was to behave illegally. It would be like having a contest to see which listener could shoplift the most merchandise from a list of stores. It doesn't matter that O&A weren't physically at St. Patrick's. That's why O&A is off the air. Whether they are still under contract is a moot point. When a CEO is removed from his position and placed on some special assignment, we still say the guy got fired -- it doesn't matter that he's still getting paid.
Yes, you have the right to think anything is funny and I have the right to criticize guys like O&A on the basis of an intellectual argument making the case that their show (and shows like theirs) have no artistic merit whatsoever. And I can argue that in the limited bandwidth of terrestrial radio broadcasting that a station willing to broadcast material of artistic merit should be favored to receive a broadcast license over one that has no artistic merit.
As a society, we don't have to accept the "lowest common denominator" just because a corporation thinks it happens to make money. If it weren't for the Congressional give-away that deregulated radio and allowed consolidation to take place so that only two companies control most of the radio in the US, 'shock-jock' radio and the McDonaldsization of radio never would have happened.
It just so happened that while O&A was the most popular show on WNEW-FM, their ratings were still comparatively poor. And overall, the station was a ratings disaster. The only reason the format lasted this long was becuase Infinity couldn't figure (and still apparently can't figure) out how to program the station without negatively affecting Stern or eroding audience from CBS-FM. This is the problem when one company owns so many stations in the same market.
2) disagree O&A weren't to blame. Reason? Would this couple have done this without their contest? Pretty sure no, as I have never heard of something like this happening before and it obviously has the ability to make headlines.
Jokes are fine, no matter how vulgar/offensive to some. As has been stated, you can change the dial. However, sending people out to purposefully break the law makes you guilty too. For instance, you hire someone to kill your spouse, you are still going to to be nabbed for solicitation of a homicide. But all you did was tell someone to kill them, you didn't make them do it. Also, it is EXTREMELY irresponsible to put such in act in view of children. Would you not explode had you witnessed this with your child at your place of worship or even outside your home?
Now there is the debate of what harm could it do to children? They are over-sexed these days anyways what with pregnant 12-year-olds and 10-year-old Britney Spears clones. But where do you think that started? The media. Radio, TV, etc. Now when my daughter grows up she can ask me whatever she wants and in the meantime I will do my best to protect her from corruptive influences. But that could all be shattered one day when she decides to join her friends in their church and some idiots are trying to win a radio contest so she gets shown the mechanics of "doggie style" first hand.
I say they're gone, and someone just like them will be on air within the year, why get upset over it?
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"The greatest thing you will ever learn, is just love and be loved in return."
Barry C. Martin
IATSE Local 182
To verify that they indeed did the challenge, the store had a converted ambulance with video equipment that would follow the contestant.
Needless to say, they got caught, and the store faced charges for instigating illegal activity. So even if the store owners or employees didn't moon the cop, they certainly encouraged it by offering a gift certificate to anyone who would do so. I believe the store is closed now for that, and other reasons.
=TMP=
If you incite to illegal activity, you are legally culpable and an accessory to the fact. If a ship's captain convinces his crew to dump the cargo, he is guilty of barratry. The crew members may be let go of charges for the simple fact that they may have not been apprised of the illegal nature of the act before hand.
Such as the case here. However the couple really should have known it was illegal. Sam Adams should not have sponsored this contest, and O&A should have not engaged in enticing participants to win the contest by engaging in illegal activity.
Sam Adams brewery, O&A, the station management and owners, as well as anyone else in the loop who could have stopped the promotion, are all culpable participants, right along with the couple who did it.
This is something that has been proven time and again in our system of law and order. If you entice to riot, yell fire in a theater, whatever, you are doing a wrong thing, and if caught, can get a few years in the pokie.
What of the woman in Georgia who started that whole thing by telling police that three medical students were going to start a big terrorist plot? Here is a woman who knew that there was a 25 million dollar reward for turning in terrorists, stared them down repeatedly, tried to overhear thier conversations, only heard bits and pieces, from a minor distance mind you, and other than her server who also could not hear a great deal, no one else in the crowded restaraunt heard this terror threat she heard.
This woman caused a great panic, and may have ruined, albiet temporarily, the lives of three law abiding upstanding individuals, just because they are of middle eastern decent. If they were white, they could have said they were going to blow up half of the eastern seaboard, and this woman wouldn't have cared either way.
So is she guilty of incitement? No. But someone is. Who? George Bush. Now this isn't a political diatribe, I like the guy alot. But when someone makes repeated announcements that if you turn in people for large cash awards, and the only details you have to go off of are that most terrorists are of middle eastern decent (media reports), then what are you to do. She did exactly what she was supposed to do. It wasn't right, but she was put into that position because an entity, in this case the US goverment, encited HER to be overtly suspicious and report anything in the hopes of collecting a big cash reward. I don't trash her, she just did in this case what she thought was the right thing to do.
Back to O&A, Sam Adams et al, they encited illegal activity, big difference.
What the hell am I talking about?
Dave
Cedric The Entertainer's character in 'Barbershop' does a joke making fun of Rosa Parks, O.J. Simpson, and Rodney King. This apparently made both Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton go ballistic. Thats the apparent 'controversy'.
-Aaron
You're trying to reduce this to "a few people got offended and so they got fired and it's not fair." 2.5 million New York Catholics are not a 'special interest group' by any stretch of the imagination. All legal decesions involving obscenity take into account the prevailing standards of the community in total, and not any one individual. Opie and Anthony offended an entire city with this stunt and threatened the license of the station. That's why they got the hook, and it was a long time coming. I'm a division-of-Viacom employee myself and I'm delighted they are gone, and I wish they would have taken Howard Stern with them. I don't care how it affects my 401k.
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"The greatest thing you will ever learn, is just love and be loved in return."
Barry C. Martin
IATSE Local 182
2. Station management ok'ed the stunt therfore they were just doing thier jobs and following orders if any gets canned it should be station management for ok'ing the stunt.
3. I am very certain that if the FCC were to rule using only what was broadcast it will be found that they did not break any rules.
I feel like I am repeating myself over and over again. I am a Catholic and I was not offended so therefore every catholic was not offended, and the Catholic Action League is certainly a special interest group.
If it seems like you are repeating yourself, you are. WHY YOU ASK???
It is simple. On the surface it seems as if you are in support of what Opie and Anthony did. Maybe you are. All anyone is trying to tell you is what they did was not just in violation of COMMON decency, but in fact was very illegal.
However, I think in reality it is not that you aren't seeing the point, but rather you have an entirely different point I believe. I think, from what I can gather from your posts, is not that you are actually supporting illegal action, but rather a freedom of speech issue.
From a freedom of speech issue, what they did was completely legal. How are they to actually know that someone wouldn't just fake it for the radio. Who is to know? They didn't ask someone to steal anything or physically hurt anyone. And any psychological harm is vague because we are talking about individuals.
When it comes to individuals, each responds differenly from another. A community bands together to write statutes of morals, or laws to live by. These are never posted, and always change from province to province. If no laws exist for the offence charged, community standards are often used to prosecute. However, in most cases, never work, as it is almost impossible to prove community standards of conduct, when you cannot just break into peoples houses to find out how they REALLY live.
We had a similar case here in Utah. Not with radio, but with Videos. A company that I worked for, Movie Buffs, was well known for offering adult videos. We required 21 and over to rent them. We were busted in the small town of Lehi, for violating community standards. After two years and two trials, a total aquittal came. However, the business was bankrupt from legal bills, and bad publicity.
The prosecuting attorney stated "we got a moral victory, we got those smut peddlers out of our town". They spent half a million dollars of state and county money to put 300 people in three states out of work, myself included. And that was thier moral victory.
So I empathize with Opie and Anthony. Not with the stunt, but with the fact that they only did what they always had done. Nothing new there. Would they have actually been convicted of any crime? Unknown. But any group or city can use thier money and clout to put anyone down and out of business if they just throw thier weight around. It isn't right, fair, or MORAL to do so.
If they did truly commit a crime, then they should be charged, prosecuted, and then given a FAIR trial. Only then do you really know if true crime had been committed. Only know, this may not happen at all. Instead, the sig in question got thier way, without due process, which all persons in this country are entitled.
It happens all the time. Even with due process, the wrong things happen still. I do not excuse opie and anthony, but empathize that they did not get due process, or even an opportunity to apologize and move on with thier show.
Dave
They were taken off the air primarily because the publicity from the incident scared away advertisers. And once a station loses the respect of its advertisers, it can no longer operate succesfully. Also, since this incident involved illegal behavior, the station had to show the FCC that it was taking action in advance of their FCC hearing.
In addition, it is suspected, although I can't prove it, that the order to take O&A off of the air came from Sumner Redstone himself, who apparently was unaware of the nature of the Shock Jock radio format. That is why WNEW is changing its entire format, not just putting restrictions on what its jocks can do or say.
Howard Stern has received $milions in fines from the FCC, but Infinity has not removed him from the air because he still has the support of advertisers.
The group that blew the whistle is officially known as the Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights. It shares the same address as the Archdiocese of New York and is on the archdiocese's phone system. In actuality, the Catholic League is a right-wing pressure group that promotes censorship.
The Catholic League bullied Miramax into not releasing Dogma in the US. The Catholic League is now bullying Disney over another picture Miramax just picked up -- a movie that tells of sadism at a Catholic orphanage abroad.
Two years ago the Catholic League and then-Mayor Rudolph Giuliani tried to shut down the "Sensation" exhibit at the Brooklyn Museum. Why? One objet d'art in "Sensation" had cow dung on the Virgin Mary. That prompted Jay Leno to correctly denounce Giuliani as fascist.
Actually; $8.669m (USA) (14 November 1999) (1269 screens)
quote:
The Catholic League bullied Miramax into not releasing Dogma in the US.
Though Miramax dropped "Dogma", it still had a lengthy run here in Eugene (Regal).
quote:
cow dung on the Virgin Mary
Actually I think it was elephant dung.
quote:
prompted Jay Leno to correctly denounce Giuliani as fascist
Leno later apologized to Guiliani. (AP)- "Leno also offered a partial apology for a comment he made on the show in April about a decency committee Giuliani had appointed. "I used the word fascist -- poor choice of words," Leno said."
They were not fired they are still under contract their show is just canceled.
Now back to movies...
See, thats what I dont get why do people feel they have to work to get a movie banned? If someone wants to pay thier money to see it then they should be allowed too. what are these people afraid of? So a movie portrays something they do not like they have the ability not to go and see it.
The Phoenix DJ who placed a phone call to Mrs. Daryl Kile has been fired.
Also -- contrary to Sean M -- Infinity Broadcasting fired Opie & Anthony for cause. Google for "Opie Anthony fired" and you'll find the New York newspaper stories about the whole mess.