Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Other Countries Other Formats?

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Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 12-09-2002, 04:38 PM:

We in the USA only occasionally hear about other makes of projectors from the various corners of the globe. But what about sound? Are there any other sound formats out there that we don't know about? First of all is there any digital beyond SR-D, SDDS, and DTS? Perhaps not but what about analog tracks--must be plenty of folks turning out Dolby-like SVA tracks under their own brand name. What else...any strange formats like multitrack VA or color based...things that were toyed with here but never caught on?

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 12-09-2002, 04:59 PM:

I think film sound is pretty standard throughout the world, but there is considerable variation in that used for television systems.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 12-09-2002, 05:33 PM:

In france there was a magneto optical disk system that DTS I heard eventually had to buy out over the patents

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 12-09-2002, 05:49 PM:

We use the Magneto Optical Disc format on our Digital Dubbers
here in New York.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 12-09-2002, 06:12 PM:

The Germans apparently still have 16mm mag striping capability, though the format is all but dead in the US.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 12-09-2002, 06:35 PM:

The Akai digi dubber uses a magneto opticle disk but I believe the issue with the french system was the use of on board timecode

Posted by Jeffry L. Johnson (Member # 453) on 12-11-2002, 10:19 AM:

The French magneto-optical system was LC Concept. Search the Film Handlers Forum for "LC Concept".

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 12-11-2002, 11:35 AM:

quote:
The Germans apparently still have 16mm mag striping capability, though the format is all but dead in the US.

That may be true, since there are a few very good printing labs in Berlin and Munich which might have the capability. However, 16mm is hardly ever used anymore and has been practically replaced by digital formats for TV and documentary production.
In the cinema, there are exactly the same formats as everywhere. At the beginning of the 90s, Kinoton proposed a digital format for the cinema but I have no idea what it was. I would have to find out. AFAIK, CDS was never commercially introduced here but I know some people who say it has been demonstrated to exhibitors in Munich once.
As everywhere, Dolby Digital is by far the most commonly used digital format. Many of the newer multiplexes also have dts and some of the bigger screens also have SDDS. It is not uncommon for big screens to have two or even three digital formats. In the field of analogue processors, the original Dolby units are installed almost everywhere. Manufacturers like Smart or Panastereo are extremely rarely to be found.
In the olden days, there was a mono format which is commonly called "Klangfilm" after the manufacturer which was superior to Academy mono in that the HF were not as steeply filtered off.
The other difference to overseas is that most cinemas have Kinoton or Ernemann projectors. American projectors like Christie are very rare. A lot of "older" cinemas still have the Philips or Bauer projectors which are very sturdy.

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 12-11-2002, 11:36 AM:

quote:
The Germans apparently still have 16mm mag striping capability, though the format is all but dead in the US.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 12-11-2002, 12:20 PM:

Michael wrote:

quote:

At the beginning of the 90s, Kinoton proposed a digital format for the cinema but I have no idea what it was. I would have to find out.

One of the BKSTS wallcharts shows a sample of Kinoton film, which has what appears to be some form of time code, just outside the perforations, so I assume that it must have been a sound on disk system.

I also saw reports of somebody, I think it may have been Strong, working on a system using 30cm optical disks.

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 12-11-2002, 01:45 PM:

Stephen wrote:

quote:
I also saw reports of somebody, I think it may have
been Strong, working on a system using 30cm optical disc.

The Strong system was called DLS "Digital Laser Sound"

Over at Universal's Sound Department they made a Projection
Guide to Digital Sound Systems. It show a JJ decked out with
all the Digital readers. [Big Grin]

CDS, SRD, SDDS, DTS, DLS

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 12-11-2002, 05:27 PM:

Here is what a German projectionist`s manual which was published in early 1991 and has never since been updated has to say about the Kinoton sound system (quickly translated):

"Kinoton have, in connection with a new aspect ratio favoured by them, which uses the whole area between the perforation for the image, proposed and demonstrated on technology exhibitions a system of digital recording and playback on compact disc which is called HDFS (High Definition Film and Sound System). Two CD players are integrated into the audio rack and electronically coupled to the projector in a way which keeps picture and sound synchronised at all times, even in the event of a filmbreak. The production of release prints and the separate compact discs however will be an a new challenge to printing labs and distributors."

It doesn`t say anything about the channel configuration or if the audio content on the CDs was compressed. Maybe they used 2-channel matrixed PCM. I am going to talk to the boss of Kinoton`s Berlin office next week, I`ll ask him then and I`ll also ask him if they sued dts [Wink]

The manual also describes CDS and mentions that it had been demonstrated in Munich in December 1990 and that the demonstration had been very convincing but the high costs were seen as "a high barrier".
It goes on to describe the new system by Dolby, Dolby Stereo SR*D and says that demonstrations had been announced for the spring of 1991. According to the manual, the concept of SR*D sounded "appealing" but it remained to be seen if it worked in practice...

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 12-12-2002, 02:52 AM:

I second Michael's comments about Tobis-Klangfilm. I saw a nitrate print of the 1931 Die 3-groschenoper last year and the dynamic range sounded almost like Dolby A-type. It was certainly a hell of a lot better than a Movietone VD or RCA unilateral VA track from the same period would have sounded like played back on the same equipment.