Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: The Random Questions Thread

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Posted by Michael Brown (Member # 890) on 12-16-2002, 05:42 PM:

For short little questions that don't need a thread of their own. [Smile]

1. Why are UK Cinema posters called 'Quads' are they 4 times the size of something? What?

2. IMAX sound is digtal. Does it have analog backup?

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 12-16-2002, 06:19 PM:

quote:

1. Why are UK Cinema posters called 'Quads' are they 4 times the size of something? What?

I should know the answer to this one, but I can't remember. There used to be a lot of strange British paper sizes with odd names; they have largely been replaced by the metric 'A' and 'B' series sizes, but for a few purposes, such as posters, the old sizes survive.

quote:

2. IMAX sound is digtal. Does it have analog backup?

Dick Vaughan can probably give a fuller answer than me, but I'll have a go. Imax sound isn't always digital. The film print carries no sound track or time code. in the original system the sound was carried on a six track 35mm magnetic film running on a separate follower. Mounted on a shaft in the projector is an encoder which workes very like the devices inside a ball type mouse. This produces an output which represents the movement of the shaft, and therefore the number of frames run from a fixed starting point can be calculated. The sound follower is locked onto this signal, and the sound therefore stays in sync with the picture. Later IMAX installations have digital sound, but are often equipped with the analogue magnetic system as well. The digital sound is stored on a computer hard disc, onto which it is loaded from DVD-ROM discs supplied to the theatre. It is syncronised to the picture in the same way as the magnetic sound, i.e. basically by a frame count, and therefore, unlike DTS, is is not possible to remove damaged frames from the print, or the sound would be out of sync. Although many IMAX installations have both sound systems, only one of them would normally be in use at one time, the film would have either an analogue or a digital track, not both, so there is no backup.

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 12-16-2002, 10:32 PM:

Didn't the film Everest use DTS for it's sound source?

Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 12-17-2002, 12:18 AM:

If a person who projects film is a projectionist, and a person who works with and sells concessions is a concessionist, then why is not a race car driver called a racist?

=TMP=

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 12-17-2002, 03:31 AM:

Because "projection" and "concession" are Latin loan words which are usually combined with the suffix -ist to denote a person which is connected to the noun while "race" is a Germanic word and those are combined with -er for the same purpose. The word "race" in its biological meaning derives from Latin "radix (root)" and the word race meaning to move very fast comes from Old Nordic "rais". Hence "racist" for a person who judges people on the basis of their "race (radix)" and "racer" for someone who moves really fast.

Posted by Brad Haven (Member # 954) on 12-17-2002, 09:41 AM:

Why are they called concessions?
As far as i know, in australia it's just called candy, which is purchased in the candy bar.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 12-17-2002, 10:03 AM:

I just assumed they were called concessions because the theatre was allowed to keep the revenue from it. That is, it was a concession made by the studio in an agreement a long time ago.

It would be interesting to know the real answer.

Anyone..? Anyone..?

By the way, Michael S., that is a very intriguing answer to what seemed like a non-serious question. Wow.

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 12-17-2002, 10:24 AM:

Thank you. I happen to be a hobby linguist [Wink]

I don`t have any deeper linguistic knowledge but it is a subject which I find hugely interesting and so even a fun question like Tom`s makes me seriously think. By the way, "radix (root)" is also the word behind "radish", "radical", and there are even usages of "radix" in English which I didn`t know. But I have the Deluxe Edition of the Encyclopaedia Britannica on CD and it provides answers for almost everything.
Except for why the candy sale in cinemas is called "concession".
It must be either what Manny suspects or maybe cinemas had to obtain a special license or concession from the state to sell edibles?

Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 12-17-2002, 01:20 PM:

Yes, Michael. That was great! I certainly learned something. [Smile]

=TMP=

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 12-17-2002, 03:58 PM:

The American Heritage dictonary has "4a. The privilege of maintaining a subsidiary business within certain premises. b. The space allotted for such a business. c. The business itself: had an ice-cream concession in the subway station.." That doesn't really speak to the etymology, but it makes one suppose that it's not specific to theatres.

The OED has nothing useful to say.

--jhawk

Posted by Tom Doyle (Member # 1474) on 12-17-2002, 04:07 PM:

Ok, from the FAQ in the tips section:

9.10 Why are `trailers' called `trailers' when they are spliced after the `leader' of a movie?

Posted by Barry Martin (Member # 1376) on 12-17-2002, 05:30 PM:

Actually, I've had a question nagging at me that is %50 film and %50 television, not sure if anyone will have the answer. Why is it when watching some movies on television I will notice an occasional black scratch but only during one shot. Not even the whole scene, just one shot. Since I have no idea what the process of getting film-television I really cannot speculate, and since it is only one shot instead of the scratch starting/ending "normally" (without pattern) it sounds more like it came from the negative. Any ideas?

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 12-17-2002, 06:18 PM:

Trailers are called trailers because years ago theaters always ran double bills consisting of cliffhanger films you had the first feature followed by a news reel, some cartoons and trailers for upcoming films. Films also ran a lot of times continuously without intermission. They called the previews trailers because they trailed the feature.

Posted by Gerard S. Cohen (Member # 994) on 12-17-2002, 06:31 PM:

" RADIX MALORUM EST CUPIDITAS "
said the cunning linguist. [evil]

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 12-17-2002, 06:51 PM:

Wasn't that how the (German) Emcee described the American showgirl in "Cabaret"?

"She's a very cunning linguist..."

Why are British posters referred to as "quads"? They are not 4x the size of a 1-sheet, so I'm guessing the name comes from the printing term "quadrat" which is also how certain printing machines got the nickname, too.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 12-18-2002, 09:40 AM:

Barry Martin asked: "Why is it when watching some movies on television I will notice an occasional black scratch but only during one shot. Not even the whole scene, just one shot."

A black scratch would indicate that it occurred on a positive element, rather than a negative. Perhaps the telecine transfer was made from an edited print or master positive that had been scratched during the editing process?

Posted by Jacob Huber (Member # 1138) on 12-18-2002, 06:59 PM:

Does anyone (John P.?) know how much 35mm and 70mm film weighs (for instance a foot or even a single frame of a release print)?

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 12-18-2002, 07:33 PM:

Continuing the lingual questions:

A pedophile is someone who has a foot fetish, right?

---

I seem to recall a shot in the opening of the tv series M*A*S*H which had a lot of dark scratches.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 12-19-2002, 01:54 AM:

Here is another random (and useless) question.

Separated at birth?

Steve Kraus -- -- -- Jeff Skallan

Not exactly twins, but I like the similar pose!

[Smile]

Of course I always like this one:

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 12-19-2002, 02:39 AM:

quote:
A pedophile is someone who has a foot fetish, right?

No, a pedophile or paedophile is a person who is attracted to children. The term is derived from the Greek "paidi (child)" and "philia (love of, friendship)" but does not really have a sexual implication. The word "paedophilia" is a modern construction and an euphemism for the abuse of children.
"Philia" is also found in "Philosophia (Love of Wisdom)" or "Philadelphia (Brotherlove)", that explains why the movie which is about people being given up by their brothers is set in Philadelphia of all places.

The Greek word for "foot" is "podon", a footlover should therefore be a podophile. However, there is often confusion with the Latin word for "foot", "pes" which is behind "pedal".

More confusion arises from the fact that in constructing "scientific" or "technical" terms from Ancient Greek and Latin, both languages have often been mixed up. For instance "automobile" is a mix of Greek "auto (self)" and Latin "mobilis (moving)". Consequently, in modern Greek an "automobile" is called "autokineto", the second part of the word is derived from "kinesi (motion)" which is also behind "kinematographos (motion recorder)".

Another interesting example for the common misuse of the Greek language is "police", which is derived from "polis (town)" and is supposed to denote the enforcement of order in the town. However, in Greek, the police is called "astinomia", which means "community order".
One final example which has always struck me as rather funny is "galaxy" which most people think has a "cosmic, galactical" ring of the infinite about it. Yet "galaxia" comes from "gala (milk)" and means nothing more spacy than "milky way".

Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 12-19-2002, 06:59 AM:

i guess we're all exhibitionists.

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 12-19-2002, 07:48 AM:

If ped (as in pedal) refers to feet that means that pedophile could mean foot lover although to be consistent with a single source language maybe a different suffix would be better.

---

Joe, you disappoint me. You could have done a frame grab of me on Ebert & Roeper.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 12-19-2002, 08:01 AM:

35mm film weighs approximately 5 pounds per 1000 feet.

70mm film weighs approximately 10 pounds per 1000 feet.

Posted by Michael Brown (Member # 890) on 12-19-2002, 08:28 AM:

Brad Haven wrote: Why are they called concessions?
As far as i know, in australia it's just called candy, which is purchased in the candy bar.

---------

And another point. In the UK the word 'concession' tends to be used to mean a discount on the ticket price. I.e an adult pays full price and an OAP gets concessions.

Posted by William Leland III (Member # 1400) on 12-19-2002, 08:40 AM:

Why is there no FilmGuard cleaner made for the IMAX projectors?

Posted by Brad Haven (Member # 954) on 12-19-2002, 08:51 AM:

Thanks for the explanantion, sounds reasonable!
Also do the customers refer to it as the concessions stand and does the signage say concessions or just candy bar? just curious.

Hi Michael, yup, concession means the same here, when i was in England a few years back, it took me a while to work out what OAP meant...Old Age Pensioner [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Brad Haven (Member # 954) on 12-19-2002, 08:58 AM:

Another question
When was popcorn introduced into cinemas and is there a story behind it's introduction? (link?)

Just so i know who to curse when i next have to clean up a large popcorn that someone dropped on the floor [evil]

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 12-19-2002, 10:09 AM:

Well, I can't remember the exact dates of when concessions were first sold in theaters but I can say that when theaters first started popping up they did not have concessions at all. It all started when a peanut vender decided to set up his peanut stand outside the local theater. The theater manager noticed that people were buying peanuts and going into the movie to watch it. So this manager got with the peanut vender and worked out a deal to were he could sell his peanuts inside the theater year round to his customers with a split of the profits. Now I wonder what they served people to drink with those peanuts.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 12-19-2002, 10:46 AM:

William LeLand III asked: "Why is there no FilmGuard cleaner made for the IMAX projectors?"

The IMAX projection system is unique in that the print is brought into intimate contact with a field lens that can be moved up or down past a wiper blade during projection to clean it of any accumulated debris. Any material on the film that transfers to this optical element (e.g., causing haze), or causes the film to stick to it, can be problematic.

Posted by William Leland III (Member # 1400) on 12-19-2002, 01:18 PM:

John, what you said makes sense but do all IMAX projecotrs have a film flattener. We run a Classic 3D type. What about a SR projectors?

Also could Brad make filmguard that doesn't leave a haze on the film flattener?

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 12-19-2002, 02:58 PM:

quote:
If ped (as in pedal) refers to feet that means that pedophile couldmean foot lover although to be consistent with a single source language maybe a different suffix would be better.

Probably yes, but "pedophile" is already tied to its unfortunate connation. Also note that it is the US spelling of "paedophile" which is more obviously bound to the Greek word for child. Theoretically, "pedophile" could also refer to Greek "pedon (ground - probably again related to the Latin word for foot since a foot is the bodypart which touches the ground)" and then it could mean "lover of ground/soil".
I do not know if there is a Greek or Latin word for "foot lover".
Also note "pediatrician (childrens doctor)" a combination with "iatros (medical doctor)" or "pedagogue", a combination with "agogos (guide)", probably originally denoting a slave who accompanied wealthy children to school.
There is actually a word "podiatry" for "foot medicine".
So a "foot lover" should be a "podophile", maybe "psychiatrists (psyche=soul and again "iatros")" have a special term for that.

edit - I just googled "podophilia" and found that it is indeed the term for "foot love".

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 12-21-2002, 05:45 AM:

AFAIK,

Theatres began pushing the concession idea during the depression.

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 12-21-2002, 10:13 AM:

Maybe we should bring back Screeno and Dish Night.

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 12-21-2002, 03:53 PM:

quote:
Maybe we should bring back Screeno and Dish Night.

What are those?

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 12-21-2002, 05:55 PM:

Dish Night = a night of the week, usually Wednesday, in which drawings were held for prizes ... often dishes or groceries. This was done in the 1950s to help bring back the crowds of people who were staying home to watch their newfangled television sets.

In my theatre, they did a similar thing but it was called Bank Night. They would have a unique movie for that one night, and hold a drawing from all the ticket stubs for the preceding week for $50. If the winner was not present, the prize would be added to the $50 for the next week.

I'm not old enough to remember all this (I got into the biz in 1979), but have talked to some old timers around here who said it was a lot of fun.

I don't know what Screeno is though....anyone?

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 12-21-2002, 06:47 PM:

According to this web page, Screeno was a variation on Keno:

quote:
KENO - Originated in China 2,000 years ago and is an uncomplicated way to relax. Keno is also one of the many names given to Bingo, as developed by traveling carnivals in the 1880's, from a children's game called "Lotto." Another name for this game was "Screeno," which was played in movie theatres in this country in the 1930's. One night a week was known as "Bank Night," and the audience would get free Screeno cards with their movie tickets, and could win cash or prizes.

I also found this:

quote:
Sometimes on a weekend night before the feature started, they would play ‘Screeno’ with a large dial projected on the screen. The dial would be spun and if it stopped on your number, as per your ticket, your received a small cash prize. Wednesday night was dish night, and patrons were given a free item from a dinner set.

Posted by Gerard S. Cohen (Member # 994) on 12-21-2002, 07:13 PM:

DISH NIGHT?
Used to be Thursdays in my recollection. Friday and Saturday were busy date nights, so Thursday attracted housewives who were each given a dish that formed one piece of a whole set. Gene Shepherd, a late-night radio nostalgia talker, told a story of his mother hoping to accummulate an entire set, but each week only gravy boats were dispensed,until on the final night the angered housewives pelted the hapless manager with them.
Cheap "depression glass" was commonly given gratis, but in later decades it became popular with collectors, and some pieces with rare colors (also called "carnival glass") fetch high prices today.

Posted by Michael Brown (Member # 890) on 02-03-2003, 02:02 PM:

Why does it have SMPTE RP200 written on DTS Discs?

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-03-2003, 03:04 PM:

SMPTE RP200-1999 covers sound pressure levels for multichannel reproduction in cinemas:

SMPTE RP 200

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 02-03-2003, 08:50 PM:

Perhaps someone can summarize that for us. I've always been a bit puzzled how there can be a SMPTE standard for the recording levels within a proprietary system like DTS. I mean wasn't that standard the one that caused everyone to have to change sub levels?

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 02-04-2003, 02:08 AM:

Michael et al: There was a quite nasty case a couple of years back when local hooligans petrol-bombed the house of a doctor in Cardiff. She had recently been interviewed on local radio, and was introduced as a 'consultant paediatrician'. Said hooligans took this to mean that she was a kiddie fiddler, and tried to lynch her.

OK, here's my silly question: why have film gauges always been commonly expresssed in millimetres? Given that the 35mm standard was designed by an Englishman working for an American company, and that both countries used imperial measurements, how did film widths come to be expressed in a unit of measurement which at the time was only used in continental Europe?

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 02-04-2003, 08:42 AM:

quote:
Perhaps someone can summarize that for us. I've always been a bit puzzled how there can be a SMPTE standard for the recording levels within a proprietary system like DTS. I mean wasn't that standard the one that caused everyone to have to change sub levels?

Is the SMPTE label only on the newer DTS disks after they adjusted the levels? If so, then maybe that's why it's there. So Booth operators can tell the difference should they run an older disk. Just speculating here.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-04-2003, 10:38 AM:

Labeling the disks with SMPTE RP200 likely just means that the recording levels were set and monitored in accordance with the recommended practice.

There are many SMPTE standards, recommended practices and engineering guidelines that apply to proprietary systems, as these systems need to interact and work with existing equipment and practices (e.g, the location of the DTS time code on the print is covered by SMPTE RP115, but the actual time code is proprietary).