Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Software license agreements

This is topic Software license agreements in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 01-18-2003, 04:48 AM:

A friend of mine is the accountant for the condo assocation where he lives, and they use Turbotax to maintain their finances.

In the Turbotax license agreement, it actually states that it includes 'spyware,' (separate software that records where you go on the internet and sends that info to someone else without you knowing.)

Personally, I think this is a new 'low' in companies screwing customers. It already annoys me that, technically, you can not even use any MS Windows OS on anything other than the computer it came with. People I know have bought 2-3 PCs within the last five years, and have to buy a new copy of Win98SE even though the old PC was dumped.

With Turbotax, it's especially crappy because people now have all their data entered, (with no easy way to export it) and then Intuit pulls this stunt. And, of course, they do this at the end of year, when people would be very reluctant to change to another application. I was surprised to see the spyware was written by Macrovision, the same people that reduce the quality of your VHS tapes and DVDs.

Apparently, courts have upheld this concept, but I think it's getting out of hand. I mean, if the agreement said they could flatten your car tires if you didn't do such-and-such, would that be OK?

Posted by Nate Lehrke (Member # 1460) on 01-18-2003, 05:40 AM:

Thats BullShit! [fu]

I just happened to order a copy of TurboTax, I think now I will have it sent back. It's pretty shitty that you can't trust any software company anymore. What are they doing with your web viewing info?

Anyone have a suggestion for another Tax Prep. Software that is trustworthy?

Posted by Mark Lensenmayer (Member # 134) on 01-18-2003, 08:16 AM:

The "spyware" is called C-DILLA by the fine folks at Macrovision, and it is more of a copy protection scheme than a spyware program, locking the program to one computer, only. In any event, it is NOT something I want on my computer. What is especially devious is that once installed, it is very difficult to remove, even if you uninstall TurboTax.

Here is an excellent link (with an embedded link to a lame response from Intuit):

ExtremeTech on TurboTax

I have used TurboTax in the past, but this year I have purchased TAXCUT from HR BLOCK. It has no software restrictions, it reads old TurboTax data (box says it does...I haven't confirmed it yet), and has a couple of other features that should be very helpful to me.

I am planning on writing a letter to the marketing department of Intuit, stating that they have lost this customer until they remove all such predatory programs from their software.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-18-2003, 08:56 AM:

I do my taxes the old fashioned way.... I call my CPA and hand over the papers! Its faster and cheaper since he knows the IRS rules!

Steve

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 01-18-2003, 09:54 AM:

I would hate to be an employee of Macrovision, knowing that I do not contribute anything worthwhile to humanity and actively make it worse. But that could probably be said for a great many companies unfortunately.

Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 01-18-2003, 12:12 PM:

Spyware is nothing new. Websites you visit install it all the time on your computer. I regularly run a program called "Ad-Aware" that goes through your computer and removes these components, much like an antivirus program. The first time I ran it, it found 254!!!!

I run it about every week or so, when I remember to, and it finds about 5 to 10 each time. It's a free program (maybe Shareware) that you can get from Download.com

I thought you could legally install a program on another computer as long as you remove it from the first one? I recently got a new computer and gave the old one (not really that old) to my parents. Since they had no use for much of the stuff on there, I took it off and re-installed it on my new system. Now, if those companies want to tell me that I have to buy ALL NEW COPIES of that software, they can go [fu]

themselves and be glad I'm not plastering it all over the internet.

Maybe someone should flood their Spyware servers with endless endless porn.

=TMP=

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 01-18-2003, 07:41 PM:

I use Tiny Personal Firewall. Anytime something on your computer is trying to contact the outside world or the outside world wants in, a window pops up and you can allow or disallow it either this time only or create a rule to be followed (yea or nay) in the future so it can operate invisibly. You'd be surprised how many programs seem to want to call the mother ship! No more! Nothing that has no business communicating over the net is allowed to.

I concur about Ad Aware.

I also recommend the Proxomitron which is a local proxy which you set your browser to talk to the internet through. It blocks pop-ups and a good deal of other ads as well. Sometimes it gets in the way of things but overall it makes web surfing much less annoying. I have Navigator (my primary browser) set to work through it while IE is direct if I want to bypass it without messing with settings.

Posted by Mark Lensenmayer (Member # 134) on 01-18-2003, 08:14 PM:

I use PEST PATROL for pests, and POW! and CookieWall (From AnalogX Freeware) for popup and cookie control. Pest Patrol is worth the small investment, and the other two are free, as are all AnalogX programs. There is some excellent software on the AnalogX site.

Analog X Software

As for Macrovision, I always loudly "BOO" when the Macrovision trailer pops up on a DVD.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 01-19-2003, 12:00 AM:

This brings up the whole issue of End User License Agreements (EULAs), which are those envelopes full of small type that say "by opening this envelope (which contains software media), you agree to these conditions of sale." In the US, there is some question as to whether these EULAs are legally binding, however, because they are essentially contracts, but they are not agreed to by both parties (at least in the usual sense). I don't believe that this has been tested in court.

The OEM Windows licenses do state that they only apply to the "computer" with which the OEM license was purchased, but they don't specify what constitutes a "computer." What if you replace the disks, motherboard, memory, network card, sound card, graphics card, power supply, and case, all at different times? Is it still the same "computer" or not? The easiest way around this is to get the full retail box version of the product and not buy the OEM version (though it can be difficult to buy brand-name prebuilt x86 computer hardware without the OEM windows license). Or choose a different OS. The corporate Windows licenses are even more Draconian: they require that users submit to license audits upon demand.

As for Macrovision, it's basically useless for preventing piracy, since the aberrations that it introduces in the sync signal can be eliminated completely with a time-base corrector. At least this was true with older versions; maybe there is a newer variant which isn't as easily defeatable. Regardless, history has shown that software copy-protection schemes don't prevent piracy, but annoy and inconvenience legitimate users.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 01-19-2003, 12:39 AM:

There is no way I would ever use a program on a computer that could lead to identity theft.

If there is software out there that can send your CPU chip serial number to Microsoft (even if that feature was turned off in the system BIOS), there is software that can record keystrokes and steal personal information.

And, of course, we all know these types of software do exist, and these types of software are employed more than we care to know.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 01-19-2003, 12:45 AM:

From an NT4 Workstation EULA I had sitting on my desk:

quote:

The term "COMPUTER" as used herein shall mean the HARDWARE, if the HARDWARE is a computer system, or the computer system with which the HARDWARE operates, if the HARDWARE is a computer system component.

I guess it all depends on what exactly the OS was bundled with. If you believe that it was bundled with the power cord, then I guess you could use the OS on any system powered by that power cord. [Smile]

Of course I wasn't of legal age when I purchased my NT licenses years ago, so I guess I can't really be bound by them anyway.

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 08-27-2003, 07:12 PM:

Bump...

I keep getting a "Dell Support Alert" icon on my taskbar, probably to tell me about the MSblast virus or some thing I already know about. Can anyone tell me how to get rid of it?

As a side note: When you click on it, you get a software agreement screen, which says in part:

"If you are a commercial customer of Dell or a Dell affiliate, you hereby grant Dell, or an agent selected by Dell, the right to perform an audit of your use of the Software during normal business hours, you agree to cooperate with Dell in such audit, and you agree to provide Dell with all records reasonably related to your use of the Software."

Of course, when I select, "I do not agree" the OK button will not highlight, so I can't get out of it. I can only agree or cancel, leaving the icon. Such crap.

I saw a student version of Word (I think) and it said that when you cease to be a student, you can no longer use the software. More crap.

Posted by Mark Hajducki (Member # 1732) on 08-27-2003, 07:38 PM:

as far as I know Microsoft has changed the way of buying the student copies of Word/ Windows etc. from a send off form, to a full boxed product and relying on the shop/ mail order company to check the student ID [as if that will happen].

Anyway, how many students use licenced software?

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 08-27-2003, 07:46 PM:

The sweet trick is putting "you must agree to the license agreement to use this software, if you do not agree return the software to your retailer for a refund" printed on the outside of a retail box. You have to open the box to find and read the agreement (often you have to begin installation to see the EULA displayed)...
Just try to return an opened software box for a refund.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 08-27-2003, 10:51 PM:

AOL offers a Anti-spyware programs that are free. If you are using AOL 9.0, (the latest thing that just hit the streets) it suggests you install it. It supposedly will scan your hard drives looking for all those little spy bugs planted in your machine. You have the option of letting the anti-spyware kick all that crap out of your machine. Better back up your registry, though. [Smile]