Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Why does it say "For Audio Only" on some CD-Rs?

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Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 02-08-2003, 07:44 AM:

Yes, why? And why are there CD-Rs which say "specially for audio CDs"? I am aware that some older CD players could only read specific coulours and so the recordable CDs which had that colours were specially marked, but why the other way around? Shouldn`t all CD-Rs be suitable for data other than audio?

Posted by Mark Ogden (Member # 43) on 02-08-2003, 08:14 AM:

Blank CDs that bear the legend "for audio recording" (some say: "for music recording") are made to be used specifically in stand alone stereo-component type CD recorders (as opposed to CD burners in computers). They are made by manufacturers that have paid a royalty to the recording industries group to help offset the supposed loss of profit from people who dub off copies of their CDs for others.

Of course, you could always use these 'audio only' disks on your computer to record data or whatever, but a standard CD-R lacks whatever special encoding is placed on the disc and will typically not work for recording music in a separate CD recorder.

[ 02-08-2003, 09:25 AM: Message edited by: Mark Ogden ]

Posted by John Moriarty (Member # 1153) on 02-08-2003, 08:16 AM:

Because the hi-fi industry is very good at persuading people to pay far to much for something they don't need?

I guess there may be real advantages (optimised for slower reading?), but am absolutely certain that any CD-R (assuming laser compatability) can be used equally well for data and music.

[Oops, Mark got there before me]

[ 02-08-2003, 10:38 AM: Message edited by: John Moriarty ]

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 02-08-2003, 10:46 AM:

I have a CD recorder where I work. We use it to record performances on the stage. (Tascam CD-R/CD-RW recorder)

I have used everythig from "plain vanilla", no-name brand disks all the way up to the more expensive Memorex® brand with no difference in operation. AFAIK, the only thing that makes "Audio Only" any different is the price! A "royalty" fee has been paid to the R.I.A.A. (or whomever) and that is passed on to the customer in the price of the disk(s).

The recorder I have has the ability to encode a "signal" or a "marker" of some kind into the burned disk that will allow or disallow it to be duplicated from another CD-recorder. There are three settings: "Allow-All", Allow-None" or Allow-ONE". The "Allow-ONE" option allows only one generation of copy to be made from that disk. (eg: You can't copy a copy.)

From what I understand, all CD-recorders have to have this option in them and they must obey the "markers" that they encounter in any disk that is put into it.

I think the R.I.A.A. has its head up its ass. [fu]

Think about it... The fashion industry doesn't blame people copying their clothes when they have a bad business year, do they? NO! They KNOW that they didn't make clothes that people want to BUY that year! Next year they just try harder to make clothes that people WILL buy!

R.I.A.A. should take its cues from the fashion industry! MAKE MUSIC THAT PEOPLE WANT TO LISTEN TO!!

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 02-08-2003, 11:11 AM:

I always wondered if we were paying blanket royalties on media as I know there was talk about that at one point. So it's only on those labeled Audio Only? Never even noticed them but OK, what does that buy the purchaser, legally? Didn't the home recording law or whatever it's called specifically declare making a copy for personal use to be fair use? So no need for a royalty there. Seems to me that if I pay them a royalty then it must grant a right that doesn't already exist. Has anyone used this as a defense against a charge of infringement on making a copy of a CD owned by someone else?

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 02-08-2003, 11:34 AM:

Randy, are you saying that a regular "data" CD-R will work in my hi-fi CD recorder?

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-08-2003, 11:38 AM:

Data CD-R discs should work without any problem in a standalone CD recorder.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 02-08-2003, 11:52 AM:

You can't record on data-only CD-Rs with a standalone recorder. However there are certain units (made by Phillips, I believe) which can be tricked somehow into thinking the data-only media is acceptable. I think you can PLAY a data-only CD on a standalone unit, however.

Also, as mentioned in another thread...the RIAA does not "make music." So they can't be blamed for the music of today...blame the Britneys and the Eminems and the Nellys, and the kids who buy them.

I think it's a given that in general, any generation will hate the music of the previous generation. I think a majority of teenagers would tell you that most of today's stuff is just fine with them. Saying today's music sucks is just another way of saying "I'm getting old!" (and I'm in that group!) [Big Grin]

Posted by Mark Ogden (Member # 43) on 02-08-2003, 11:54 AM:

In general, most consumer level stand-alone cd recorders, such as those made by Pioneer, Sony, Philips et. al., will not work unless the blank media is of the "music capable" (royalty paid) variety (both my Philips decks do not accept regular data-cds.). When you get to the professional level, decks like Randy's Tascam, for example, most will take any cd-r that you feed it. Why the consumer/casual user sector gets their balls broken on this, I don't know.

On some of the very early stand-alone machines, you used to be able to feed the deck a music-OK disc, and once the deck recognised the disc and initialized the laser you could pry open the drawer and insert a regular (cheaper) data CD and have it work. I haven't tried this since the price of music blanks has come down quite a bit, but you could give it a shot if you have one of these.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 02-08-2003, 02:36 PM:

Tascam CR-R/RW units accept any recordable CD since you shouldn't have to pay a royalty to record your own music in your own studio.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 02-08-2003, 02:48 PM:

quote:
Mike Blakesley: ...the RIAA does not "make music."...

Yes, understood. I stand corrected. However, I still have the same criticisms of "those people who make and market music."

If whatever they are making isn't selling, they should try to figure out a way to make things that people DO want to buy instead of trying to get laws passed to FORCE people to buy their crummy product.

Just imagine the money they could save... and the money they could MAKE... if they quit spending their money lobbying the government and paying lawyers, then plowed that money back into some market research and product development!

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 02-08-2003, 03:06 PM:

This is designed to make the users of consumer CD-R audio decks pay a levy to the music industry on every blank they buy. I have a very early consumer recorder (a Philips CDR-870 which I only ever use for recording stuff off the radio now), which can be defeated by the simple expedient of booting an audio CD, pulling open the tray with a bent paperclip and replacing it with a much cheaper data disc. I gather that subsequent models have included microswitches in the tray mechanism to stop you doing this, i.e. to detect if any attempt is made to pull the tray open manually.

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 02-08-2003, 04:50 PM:

I had completely forgotten about standalone recorders! Obviously, as the experiment with changing the CD after it has been OKed by the recorder shows, the difference is not in the kind of recording layer. There must be a little piece of code on the CDs which the recorder has to read first to allow recording.
I wonder if these are still widely used now that every new computer comes with a CD-R drive.

Posted by Josh Jones (Member # 447) on 02-09-2003, 10:46 PM:

Surely someone has figured out by now how to write a program to "prewrite" to the disc using a computer to make the cd recorder think it has a good disk. I'll just bet.

Josh

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 02-09-2003, 11:30 PM:

Most CD writers aren't physically cable of writing to the first track on the CD. This is the same reason why you can't just copy most PlayStation discs.