This is topic Cinerama returns to Seattle in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Peter Kerchinsky (Member # 1098) on 02-28-2003, 04:05 AM:
 
This week, starting Friday the 28th, the Seattle Cinerama is holding a Cinerama Festival. Four films will be featured: How the West Was Won (new print) This is Cinerama (new print) Search for Paradise (questionable print) and Windjammer (also a questionable print).
We did several tests today including a run of the first part of How The West Was Won and it look great. There's still some minor tweaking to be done, but all in all I think the techs and booth people did OK.
Too bad alot of you will be whooping it up in Vegas this week and proably won't get the chance to see this.
I'm happy to be part of this as I haven't run 3 panel Cinerama since about 1958.
 

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Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 02-28-2003, 04:12 AM:
 
Cool! Be sure to take / send in lots of pictures!
 

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Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 02-28-2003, 12:03 PM:
 
Peter,

The original three strip Cinerama was a double system using a seperate reel of magnetic tape (on film base?) for the sound that was 35mm in width. I am sure the system will still be the same. What I would like to know is if the new sound track has been treated with Dolby noise reduction either with 'A' or SR?
You said, "HOW THE WEST WAS WON" is a new print. Is it a dye transfer or regular Eastman color print?

-Claude
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-28-2003, 12:11 PM:
 
Cinerama:

http://www.cinerama.com/

http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/widescreen/wingcr1.htm

http://www.cineramaadventure.com

AFAIK, any new prints will be on Kodak VISION Color Print Films, likely from Crest National Labs:

http://www.cineramaadventure.com/crestindex.htm

http://www.crestnational.com
 

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Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 02-28-2003, 05:35 PM:
 

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Is it a dye transfer or regular Eastman color print?

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Eastman. Technicolor is not currenty making dye-transfer prints, having put their equipment on "hiatus."
 

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Posted by Peter Kerchinsky (Member # 1098) on 02-28-2003, 10:01 PM:
 
Claude
From the looks of the print it is Eastman. In fact I noticed some of the scenes appeared to be a bit washed out.
The sound reel is non Dolby. Not sure what the track is as I'm working the Abel booth and the sound dubber is in the Charley booth.
By the way the first showing tonight of How The West Was Won was a sell out.
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 02-28-2003, 10:03 PM:
 
The Cinerama soundtrack is recorded on regular 35mm mag fullcoat, just like printmasters for current releases. I doubt that NR would make much of a difference, as the format sounds quite good anyway, and the 1950s recordings suffer from the limitations of the recording technology as well as deterioration of existing elements over time (not that the sound is "bad"--just that it is sub-optimal by today's standards).
 

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Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 02-28-2003, 10:43 PM:
 
"HOW THE WEST WAS WON" is my favorite Cinerama film and I envy everyone who has the opportunity to see it again or for the first time in the original three strip version. By the way, "HTWWW" and the other MGM Cinerama film that preceded it, "THE WONDERFUL WORLD OF THE BROTHERS GRIMM ran through the projector at the standard 24fps compared to all of the other Cinerama films that ran at 30fps. I have never seen a side by side comparison of films projected at the two speeds. Is there a big difference between the two? I would think that the faster projection speed would reduce flicker but by how much?

-Claude
 

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Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 03-01-2003, 12:41 AM:
 
To bad that system didn't become mainstream as we all would have a complex job. Can you imagine a multiplex full of this stuff, a 20 screen per say
 

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Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 03-01-2003, 01:08 AM:
 

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ran through the projector at the standard 24fps compared to all of the other Cinerama films that ran at 30fps.

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In Dayton, John Harvey ran both at 25 and it didn't seem to cause a problem.

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I THINK I read that the Cinerama Dome in Hollywood is also using the 25fps fits all concept.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-01-2003, 10:21 AM:
 
What really saddens me about the whole thing is that no one has yet to install an entire projection system correctly. A solid sheet at the dome, a strip screen that blows in the HVAC air at Seattle, and bad cross reflection in Dayton, and not one place running the prints at the correct speed. Its fun to go see this format, but would someone please do it right for once.......Better projection pays for this format too!
Mark
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 03-01-2003, 10:45 AM:
 
Mark--they do switch between 24 and 26fps at Bradford, and the screen there is pretty good, too. The only thing there which is sub-optimal is the placement of the curved screen--it is farther away from the audience than would be ideal in order to have enough space to fly in a flat screen in front of it for "normal" shows.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-01-2003, 10:58 AM:
 
Scott,
I was only referring to the U.S. attempts at Cinerama. Bradford is an exception to all the mess in the U.S., and its probably the closest the world will get to Cinerama Done Right!
Mark
 

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Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 03-01-2003, 12:12 PM:
 
Hello Paul,

Not being a projectionist and actually had a hand in Cinerama film presentations, I can only go by what I read and learn in film journals and here at Film Tech. I must have either misread the article or the the person who wrote the article may have had his facts wrong. Thanks to you, Mark and Film Tech, I now have the correct information.

By the way, I have seen every Cinerama film produced at the long demolished Princess Cinerama in downtown Honolulu in the late fifties and many of them again at the Cinerama after they were finished with the regular run of "THE WONDERFUL WORLD OF THE BROTHERS GRIMM" and "HOW THE WEST WAS WON". I even saw the Cinemiracle film "WINDJAMMER" there and the terrible presentation of "THIS IS CINERAMA" in single strip 70mm.

I believe I have had the opportunity to see all of the film formats except a true presentation of Ultra Panavision films projected on a super wide screen showing all of the picture information on the print and Dimension 150. "PATTON" played in Honolulu at the Kuhio Theatre only in 35mm during it's road show engagement and the road show of "THE BIBLE" was shown here in 70mm but only on a flat scope screen masked to a 2.20.1 ratio at the Varsity Theatre. I dont know if the article I read was correct but a true Dimension 150 presentation called for a large and lightly curved screen.

-Claude
 

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Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 03-02-2003, 10:54 AM:
 
Well then it's settled. The new Film-Tech Cinemas MUST feature a proper Cinerama auditorium.

Seriously, though. I have never seen a show projected in the format but it sounds like these US sites aren't really giving it the treatment it deserves. I still feel bad for not going to the Seattle Cinerama when I TOUCHED THE OUTSIDE WALL!! We were on our way to a Poetry Slam competition and really couldn't stop for a visit. So close, and yet so far away.

=TMP=
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-02-2003, 11:18 AM:
 
Thomas,
You didn't really miss much.....I was really disappointed on my first trip there when it re-opened and I went INSIDE to see the movie! I had expected to see the film on the big Cinerama screen, but low and behold there was a smaller (essentially flat as compared to the real screen there) screen that the films are run on every day. What a huge disappointment!! They are so close to doing it right but still so far far off course there..... If you go to any of them I'd say go to the Dome as every day films are shown on the deep curve screen, not a real Cinerama screen either but at least you'll get the idea. You can also see three strip there on a somewhat regular schedule.
Mark
 

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Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 03-02-2003, 11:20 AM:
 
Claude

Dimension 150 was generally meant to be shown on a deep curved screen similiar to Todd-AO (113-120 degree). Very few engagements of of either THE BIBLE or PATTON were actually seen in D-150 in their roadshow engagements. The L.A. showing of THE BIBLE was at Statewide's Beverly Theatre in 70mm on a convential screen. In NYC, a court ruling on a contract FORCED the Loew's State to install the screen (judge ruling was that since the theatre had coughed up the huge guarantee there was no reason they couldn't afford to install the screen.

For Patton, neither of the LA roadshow engagements (Pantages, move-over to Pacific Beverly Hills) was shown in D-150, just in 70mm. Only a later regular engagement run at the Egyptian presented it on the D-150 screen.
 

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Posted by Michael Coate (Member # 757) on 03-03-2003, 07:30 PM:
 

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Not being a projectionist and actually had a hand in Cinerama film presentations, I can only go by what I read and learn in film journals and here at Film Tech. I must have either misread the article or the the person who wrote the article may have had his facts wrong. Thanks to you, Mark and Film Tech, I now have the correct information.

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For Patton, neither of the LA roadshow engagements (Pantages, move-over to Pacific Beverly Hills) was shown in D-150, just in 70mm. Only a later regular engagement run at the Egyptian presented it on the D-150 screen.

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...from Peter K.:
the Seattle Cinerama is holding a Cinerama Festival

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From Jesse...
around 1988 there was an arcade video game that used 3 screens for a Cinerama-like effect

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Its amazing that... its good trained projectionists that make them run.

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I'll second that. Imagine what that might look like if the theatre were turned over to some of the chain operators around here!

BTW... did the local change its number? I thought it was 154.
 

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Posted by Roger Manning Jr (Member # 1560) on 03-06-2003, 04:06 PM:
 
Anybody know when "How The West Was Won" will play at the dome in L.A.?
My wife & I went up there for "This Is Cinerama" we loved it.
Roger

[ 03-06-2003, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: Roger Manning Jr ]
 

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Posted by Mark Ogden (Member # 43) on 03-06-2003, 05:18 PM:
 
Like a lot of people, I reacted with great indignation when Pacific announced that they would stay with the single sheet screen for the Cinerama Dome. But I saw This is Cinerama there twice, and I can report that I was never once taken out of the picture attention-wise because of noticeable cross reflections. In fact, looking back, I’ve seen a lot of 70mm films that used all the real estate on a deeply curved screen (at the Dome, the Uptown, and the old UA in the Cherry Creek section of Denver, fer instance) and I can’t remember once when I was distracted enough by cross reflections to be annoyed.

So I wonder how big an issue cross-reflection really is. Of course, when I made this argument in a usenet group some time back, somebody flamed me back and told me that I wasn’t paying enough attention or looking carefully enough. But that’s just my point: I’m there to be entertained and/or amazed, not to look for projection problems. If there were contrast problems due to reflections, they were either below my perception or noted but not severe enough to be a huge distraction. On the other hand, I’m SURE that I would have been distracted by a louvered screen whose strips were in motion from the HVAC (or the sound), if that’s what the issue was. Bottom line: my $.02 is that the single sheet at the Dome, from what I’ve seen, doesn’t detract from the presentation at all, and that they are more or less getting away with using it.

Claude, do you know the Cinerama projectors at the Dome? They were apparently liberated from a theatre there in Honolulu. I took some shots of them and they are in the update of 1/31/03.
 

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Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 03-06-2003, 05:54 PM:
 
Mark,

Yes, I did know Hawaii's Cinerama projectors was refurbished and is now being used at the Cinerama Dome in Hollywood. Alan Sakaida, Pacific's Picture & Sound engeneer told me this after I asked what was going to happen to the projectors when I saw the equipment still in the booth shortly before the Cinerama closed about two years ago. The Cinerama was very beautiful with elegant Salmon colored drapes covering the walls with maching seats that were very comfortable. The Cinerama was not a very large theatre. I think the sitting capacity was about 800. The screen was much smaller than the one that was in Honolulu's original Cinerama house, the Princess Cinerama in the downtown area of the city. The old Princess was a huge theatre that had a seating capacity of over a thousand seats. Before the theatre was set up for Cinerama, the Princess had the largest screen in the Territory of Hawaii before we entered the union as a state. They called the screen MAGNASCREEN and it looked like and was just as huge as the Waikiki IMAX's screen. If the theatre was still standing, it could have easily be converted to IMAX because of the very high ceiling and great acoustics.

-Claude
 

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Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 03-07-2003, 01:54 PM:
 
Typing this at a paid interenet terminal across from the theater at the motel I stayed at- great show!
 

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Posted by Tao Yue (Member # 836) on 03-07-2003, 02:48 PM:
 
Jack wrote:

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The Seattle exhibition is notable because it's the real thing... all mechanical, all analog,

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As far as I know (Peter?) the few concessions to current technology are the automation boxes, the platters & the xenon lamps.

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from Tao Yue:
It's been mentioned before (though not in this thread) that the sound is transmitted through a digital link from the reproducer in Charlie booth to the sound processors in Baker.

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Jack asked:

Did the Cinerama have solid state in the '60s?)

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