quote:

---

I hope they did not turn an original mono film into a stereo sound movie

---

quote:

---

That talk about 4 track mag for a former reissue.... Some Kurosawa films vere Perspecta Sound (Dersu even 70mm), -but i don't remember ever seing the Perspecta logo on a Seven Samurai print

---

Of course, if it is true the film was released in a mag stereo mix in the late 70's (and I believe this was done by a US arthouse company) then it wouldn't have a Perspecta stereo credit, since that is a totally different process (and shouldn't actually be credited as stereo anyway, IMHO). Anyway, I never saw this release, i just remember (vaguely) the publicity about it.
 

---

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 03-01-2003, 04:26 AM:
 
I've only seen the BFI prints which shows at the NFT occasionally, which I think date from the mid-80s. Photographically they're lovely: crisp, sharp and contrasty. The sound is mono VA if I remember correctly. They have two prints: one with subtitles which is now pretty much worn out, and one without which is still in excellent condition. Not speaking Japanese, however, I have to wear those awful electric chair helmet style headphones the NFT has for foreign language commentaries. For a film running over three hours, that's a bit of a challenge!
 

---

Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 03-02-2003, 04:55 AM:
 
Quote:
"Of course, if it is true the film was released in a mag stereo mix in the late 70's (and I believe this was done by a US arthouse company) then it wouldn't have a Perspecta stereo credit, since that is a totally different process "

Well, then - what about "Gone with the Wind" - from 1:37 and 1939 mono to "In the new splendour of 70mm projection and full stereofonic sound" - isn't that a different process, too ???
I have not seen the logo on a n y print - pre-1970 or new ones, i ment - and thereby i tried to indicate, that i believe, the original was pure mono, and that the 1970 stereo track then would be just as much as GWTW. -Were the jap's running mag sound that early at all ??
p.
 

---

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 03-02-2003, 05:50 AM:
 
Leo wrote:

quote:

---

Not speaking Japanese, however, I have to wear those awful electric chair helmet style headphones the NFT has for foreign language commentaries. For a film running over three hours, that's a bit of a challenge!

---

Leo, prepare yourself for a shock, the NFT have finally got rid of those 1950s style headphones! The place has recently been refurbished, new seating and carpets, and no headphones. I don't know what has replaced them, some sort of infr red system maybe.

NFT one has also got a curtain at long last to replace those strange shutters in front of the screen, which had been out of use for years. That leaves just one cinema (NFT3) out of the seven which I normally use which does not have a cuttain. Maybe they will get round to it someday.
 

---

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 03-02-2003, 06:33 AM:
 
When I worked in NFT3 in its days as the MOMI cinema it didn't even have motorised masking! You put a white light on the screen in the required ratio, then adjusted the masking behind the screen using a pulley.

Not a problem, because there were never any ads or trailers at NFT shows, so ratios never needed to change mid-performance. The only time I had to was during a double-bill screening: the first film was in 'scope and the second was in Academy. Some of the audience stayed during the interval and watched me change the masking, and one asked me if I really had to make the screen smaller!
 

---

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 03-02-2003, 09:23 AM:
 
Per said " were the japs running mag sound that early at all?"

Per.

Although I am a very proud American, I am also proud of my Japanese heritage. How dare you refer to people of my ancestral
homland as JAPS ! I know the Japanese military did terrible things during World War II but the conflict ended 58 years ago and Japan today is a loyal ally of the United States and your country. Every Japanese military leaders who were responsible were all put on trial and punished.

The last time I heard anyone use the word Jap was directed to me in hatred about 15 years ago because oy my race by someone who was born many years after the war like you!!!!!!

Do you hate Japanese, Per? If not, I do expect an apology from you!

-Claude
 

---

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 03-02-2003, 10:53 AM:
 
Not trying to defend Per or take sides, but he wrote "jap's", with an apostrophe. Could be a harmless shorthand for Japanese I suppose.
 

---

Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 03-02-2003, 11:24 AM:
 
Per

There was absolutely nothing in my original post to indicate that I believed the original was anything BUT mono. Of course any stereophonic version in the 70's would have been an enchancement. That's why I was surprised that you brought up the Perspecta issue in the first place.
 

---

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 03-02-2003, 02:01 PM:
 
Leo-san, Nihongo wo benkyo suru ho ga i desu!

Claude, note that Per is not a native English speaker. I am sure he meant no harm, just wanted to write his post in a casual conversational tone. That Jap is derogatory is not very well known in non-English speaking Europe. Well, I knew it but that does not count since I am exceedingly brilliant anyway!

Claude-san mo showesto ni ikitai desuka?
 

---

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 03-02-2003, 04:50 PM:
 
David and Michael,

My mother told me about our non Japanese neighbors who were my family's good friends up until December 6, 1941 but by the following evening, they were no longer our friends because of their hatred towards everyone of Japanese ancestry. It did not matter if we were loyal Americans because as far as they were concerned, we were nothing but "Lousy Japs". Even our senior US Senator from Hawaii and Medal of Honor reciepient, Daniel K. Inouye was refused a hair cut in Louisiana after he returned home from the war in Europe minus an arm when the shop keeper told him "We do not cut Jap hair". As I had mentioned in my previous post, a man I did not even know asked me if I was a Japanese about fifteen years ago. I told him that I was an American of Japanese ancestry and he replied "you're no American but a lousy dirty Jap!". I did manage to put him in his place after he made that remark!

I am very sorry but all highly educated people no matter where they live should know that the word "JAP" is a highly racist slur just like the "N" word used in contempt towards black people.

-Claude
 

---

Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 03-02-2003, 06:14 PM:
 

quote:

---

all highly educated people no matter where they live should know that the word "JAP" is a highly racist slur just like the "N" word used in contempt towards black people.

---

I have to disagree here. While the term JAP is certainly an offensive racist term when spoken in the United States, you can't expect the whole world to be held responsible for understanding what that term means as applied to the U.S. Different cultures, even English-speaking ones, supply different meanings to different phrases. For example, the word fag is used as a derogatory, hateful word in the U.S. as a way of marginalizing gay people, while in Britain it refers to a cigarette.

There is nothing wrong with expressing your feelings here, Claude. But don't expect him to understand the hurt before you have educated him on the subject. To do so would be to assume everyone should submit to U.S. terms and culture, something we certainly don't seem willing to do for others.
 

---

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 03-02-2003, 06:26 PM:
 
Paul said

"to do so would be to assume everyone should submit to US terms and culture, something we certainly dont seem willing to do for others"

Paul,

If this is true, why is President Bush trying to convince the world we have the right to attack Iraq when many countries are opposed. This decision is a administration policy and it is now being forced on the UN and the free world.

Also Paul, not being Japanese and never being subjected to such a racial slur, you have no right to disagree with me!

End of discussion!

-Claude
 

---

Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 03-02-2003, 09:01 PM:
 
Claude, number one, re-read my post carefully. My point is that we do seem to expect the world to see everything through OUR eyes, but we don't seem to extend the same courtesy in seeing how the world sees us. If my original post was unclear, I apologize for that.

And second (sorry, its NOT the end of discussion. That's a moderator's call) if you will re-read my post, AGAIN, I indicated I fully understand how the term is offensive to you. My point is that the term does not have the same negative meaning where the poster lives. And there is nothing wrong with you educating him to how the term is offensive to you. However, you seem to insist that he had to have known that before you let him know your feelings, and I just don't think that is fair.
 

---

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 03-04-2003, 12:29 AM:
 
Almost 48 hours has passed and we have not heard from Per regarding the offensive word "JAP" he used in his last post on this thread.
Perhaps I was a bit harsh due to the possibility that he was not aware that the word was a racist slur because he is not an American. I have decided to give him the benefit of doubt and hope he will respond with an acceptable explanation within the next three days. If he does and and say that it was not his intention to offend anyone because he was not aware that the word is offensive to people of Japanese ancestry like myself, I will gladly offer my apology for lashing out at him in anger. If he does not respond by that time, I would have to assume that he was indeed aware that the word was racist and I had every right to be upset.

-Claude
 

---

Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 03-04-2003, 10:25 AM:
 
Dear Claude - Dear everyone

No wonder, there is war somewhere in the world every day.
My use of the expression "jap's" was not ment in any bad manner at all, but used as i would refer to my own people as "danes".
If the conversation in these forums has to be held in pure diplomatic style, with culture consulents correcting every word before posted, not to step on anybodys little toes, the moderators will be having a tough time in the future.
I have never meet a live japanese human being, but i have with pleasure been running every Kursosawa-film available, during my 30 years in this chair. The films of Akira Kurosawa sure have learned me, that traditions and proudness is counting more in Japan than most other places in the world (no offense to the rest of the world !), but am i all wrong, when i think, that not only Mr Kurosawas civil wars, but also Pearl Harbor is quite long ago, and both people and life and the world has changed quite a bit since then.
My parents also learned me, that germans were bad people - because of the war going on in our part of the world in the early forties, but heaven forbid, danes and germans should be throwing rotten tomatoes at each other so many years later.
Even if the world has been getting smaller, starting when Jules Verne wrote about Phileas Fogg, culturel differences still exists and will, as You just demonstrated it, someday call out a Doktor Merkwürdichliebe/Dr. Strangelove (can i mention a certain Texan now without getting banned ?) to push the red button. What danes want, is PAX, clean socks in our shoes and a less confronting difference between politeness and pompousness.
I hope, i - in spite of my bad english - have made it clear, that there was no harm ment in what i wrote, and that i do not find, that i owe any particular member of this honored forum (no matter his background) any apology at all.

All the best

Per Hauberg
 

---

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 03-04-2003, 02:58 PM:
 
Per,

Your prompt response to the post I wrote last night indicates that you do log on to the Film Tech Forum very frequently and were aware of my earlier post asking for your apology for using the racist word "JAP". Based on your reply to my last post, I have a feeling that you were planning to ignore it. While the reasons you had given in your last post mirrors the exact sentiments of my fellow Americans with your explanation which I am willing to accept, I have come to the conclusion that you are a very self centered and a very ill mannered person for your refusal to at least say that you are sorry for using the word "Jap" that you did not know was offensive to every Japanese and many others.

I too will withold my apology for lashing out at you in my earlier post because I suspect you did know the word was offensive in the back of your mind from the many American films and world news reports that all Japanese take offence when they are referred to as "Japs".

-Claude
 

---

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 03-04-2003, 03:02 PM:
 
Per,

Your prompt response to the post I wrote last night indicates that you do log on to the Film Tech Forum very frequently and were aware of my earlier post asking for your apology for using the racist word "JAP". Based on your reply to my last post, I have a feeling that you were planning to ignore it. While the reasons you had given in your last post mirrors the exact sentiments of my fellow Americans with your explanation which I am willing to accept, I have come to the conclusion that you are a very self centered and a very ill mannered person for your refusal to at least say that you are sorry for using the word "Jap" that you did not know was offensive to every Japanese and many others.

I too will withold my apology for lashing out at you in my earlier post because I suspect you did know the word was offensive in the back of your mind from the many American films and world news reports that all Japanese take offence when they are referred to as "Japs".

-Claude
 

---

Posted by Michael Coate (Member # 757) on 03-04-2003, 05:45 PM:
 

quote:

---

Some Kurosawa films vere Perspecta Sound - but i don't remember ever seing the Perspecta logo on a Seven Samurai print.

---

quote:

---

Were the [Japanese] running mag sound that early at all?

---

Kurosawa's Red Beard may also have been in stereo, at least in Japan. The new Criterion Region 1 DVD has a Dolby Digital 4.0 track (or "3/1" for those who dislike the decimal terminology).

The Criterion Collection DVD liner notes: "The new sound mix [for the Red Beard DVD] was created from the original 4-track magnetic master..."

The book The Emperor And The Wolf: The Lives And Films Of Akira Kurosawa And Toshiro Mifune by Stuart Galbraith IV (Faber and Faber; 2002) states that the Japanese roadshow release in 1965 was in "four-track magnetic stereophonic sound" and that the general release version was "issued in Perspecta Stereophonic Sound." The book also mentions Red Beard as being "the last film of record in Perspecta Stereophonic Sound."
 

---

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 03-04-2003, 06:12 PM:
 
Mike,

"RED BEARD" (AKAHIGE) like "SICHININ NO SAMURAI" was released by Toho and from the trailer on the DVD, one can see the magnetic recorder when the score was being recorded and there were four UV meters. Toho used Perspecta a lot because the logo was always on the "Owari" (End Title Card) for almost every Toho films at the time. Although the Toho Theatre in Honolulu was equipped for mag stereo in addition to 70mm, the picture played here in mono. Stereo was rarely used by the Japanese at the time except two pictures that was produced by Masaichi Nagata and released by his Daie Studio. The pictures were two of Japan's only 70mm films. One of the film was "SHAKA" which was about the life of Buddah and the other one was "THE GREAT WALL" about the first emperor of China who built the Great Wall of China to keep invadors out. Strange as it may seem, both pictures played in Honolulu's new Kokusai Gekijo (Theatre) in mono and 35mm scope at the time and the theatre was equipped for the latest 70mm and stereo equipment. Like the Toho, no pictures played in stereo in this theatre as far as I know.

-Claude
 

---

Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 03-04-2003, 07:24 PM:
 
Not that I really want to fan the flames, but if I just shut up my big mouth, I'm ignoring things, I'm told. Therefore one last word from the cold North:

Paul:

An old Perspecta track transferred to some kind of discrete stereo --wasn't that what happened to "Fantasia" ?
The first mag prints of "F" were still featuring the original orchestra recording. -Then later on came a new recording for the first Dolby Stereo release (about 1980 ? - but that's another story), and if I am not all derailed (no offense ment towards to any railroader amongst us !!), the latest prints had the original music once more, but this time cleaned up. -Am I right ??

------------------------------------

Michael (Schaffer)

I sincerely do hope, You know the exact mening (including possible mis-interpretation)of those foreign sentenses of Yours.

------------------------------------

Claude

The water underneath You is now so deep, that I in no way can or will stay serious about this whole matter. Do let a pro help You with that past of Yours - and Your arrogance; -Then as soon as possible give Paul an apology, and last: Before getting us all put in the penalty box, when Brad gets home from the great trade show, please be kind enough to check the indication of time on as well Your own march 4th. posts as mine. That ought to outdo Your latest attempt on me.

Do rest assured, that even without Your apology (which I do not expect and definitely could not use for anything, either), there will be no hard feelings: I will continue showing the films of Mr Kurosawa as often as possible and enjoy every foot, allthough I must say that this, my first, encounter with the 2003 oriental codes of honour and politeness not excactly increase my wish to learn more about other cultures. -But as long as I can see, the feelings are mutual, it helps !

A very good friend of mine made a speech at my 50th birthday, claiming that I am as sensual as a pre-menstrual faggot. In our culture, not even words like these comes out of disrespect, nor does anybody get offended. -That's what highly educated danes can say to each other, when they are just polite and kind rest of the way - And we sure are. Believe me - who should know better...

----------------------------------

Not being of enough arrogance to believe that I, as a private, barely english-speaking member, can stop this kindergarden show, I humbly suggest we all hush up the sidetrack and get back to "Seven Samurai"

Thus written on wednesday, march 5th., 02.09 in the morning - local time, hoping that peace and big smiles may again take the lead at the Film-Tech Forums AND very much in the hope, that I did not offend anyone (else). I did not mean to ! -Honest !!

Per Hauberg
 

---

Posted by Michael Coate (Member # 757) on 03-04-2003, 07:25 PM:
 

quote:

---

Stereo was rarely used by the Japanese at the time except two pictures that was produced by Masaichi Nagata and released by his Daie Studio. The pictures were two of Japan's only 70mm films. One of the film was "SHAKA" which was about the life of Buddah and the other one was "THE GREAT WALL" about the first emperor of China who built the Great Wall of China to keep invadors out.

---

quote:

---

Strange as it may seem, both pictures played in Honolulu's new Kokusai Gekijo (Theatre) in mono and 35mm scope at the time and the theatre was equipped for the latest 70mm and stereo equipment. Like the Toho, no pictures played in stereo in this theatre as far as I know.

---

quote:

---

An old Perspecta track transferred to some kind of discrete stereo --wasn't that what happened to "Fantasia" ?

---

quote:

---

Buzz from those phone lines became a permanent part of the soundtrack until it was digitally cleaned up.

---

quote:

---

The film must have been remixed differently after that because there is no panning of sound from the rear surround speakers anymore even with the latest 5.1 SRD mix.

---

quote:

---

I got to see the special FANTASOUND 6 channel mix at the Cinerama Dome in 1990 (70mm SR) and couldn't believe they would suppress this for the home.

---

quote:

---

Not only that, but the signal would be limited to the POTS' maximums of 0-4 KHz with most phones restricting signals to 300 Hz to 3,200 Hz.

---

It may have not have been that restrictive, since the Academy rolloff for optical soundtracks at the time was right around 4 KHz.
 

---

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 03-07-2003, 10:13 PM:
 
Good point Paul... had my head in the future again.
 

---