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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 03-03-2003, 10:10 AM:
It appears that I am now in the market for a new 35mm camera. I had been using a Minolta X-700 (which I liked very much and had recently had serviced) for about twelve years until some bastard broke into my car last night and stole the bag that contained it.
Since Minolta seems to have discontinued this model and I was thinking of upgrading anyway, I'm looking at other options for a good manual-focus SLR for general purpose use. I'm mostly interested in 35mm, although I might consider a used medium format (120/220 size) model if the price is right. Budget is under $1000 for body and 50mm lens, though I'd consider going higher for something that is built to last. If possible, I'd like something that would be at least minimally functional if the batteries die (which was one of the few flaws of the X-700). I'm interested in quality and durability (and repairability), not whiz-bang features.
My immediate thought is to look into used Nikon F3s, which I have lusted over for a while and which seem to be well supported with a wide range of good-quality lenses and accessories. They are also apparently built like tanks and will last forever if properly cared for.
Is there anything else which is in my price range and readily available (either new or used and in good condition) that would also be worth considering? What used-equipment dealers are reputable? Is medium-format even worth considering for a hobbyist who shoots a couple of rolls per month?
Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 03-03-2003, 11:52 AM:
Scott,
As a professional photographer for almost forty years, Nikon is my brand of choice in addition to Hassleblad and RB-67 medium format cameras. Since going to digital photography, I have stopped using medium format but still use 35mm, Although medium format would be nice, I am afraid you might have difficulty finding a good used camera with a 80mm lens at the $1000.00 budget you had set. I would like to suggest that you stay with 35mm cameras and Nikon has two "Built To Last" cameras. One is the N-90s which you can easily buy with a 50mm lens at your budget. Another camera to consider is the F100. I bought a second brand new F100 body several months ago for about a thousand dollars. The f100's I have is in addition to a N-90 I have been using since it was introduced on the market many years ago. I originall had two N-90s but sold one when I bought my first F100. The F100 is Nikon's "next to the top of the line" camera which is the Nikon F5. In addition to photography, I love airplanes especially commercial types and the F100 camera and the Nikon F5, is like comparing the difference between a Boieng 747-400 jet to a 777. While the F5 has more features, the F100 has almost all of it and perhaps some additional things that the F5 does not have. The reason for this is the F5 like the 747-400 is much older and the F100 and the Boeing 777 are newer models and features new technology that was not available when the older camera and plane was designed. The store I will reccomend does sell used equipment and you might be able to buy a pre owned F100 and a lens at the minimum budget you had set. They also have used mediom format cameras.
This is the store I buy my equipment and it is in New York City.
B&H Cameras
420 Ninth Avenue
New York City, NY 10001
Phone (800) 947-9954 (Photo Deparment
Web address http://www.bhphotovideo.com
Good luch in finding a 35mm cameras or a midium form
-Claude
Posted by Mark Ogden (Member # 43) on 03-03-2003, 02:30 PM:
Claude recommends B&H Photo, right down Ninth Avenue from where I work in NYC, and they are very good but somewhat expensive (but they do seem to have everything). Out of all the NYC dealers that typically advertise in photo magazines, I would only advise dealing with them and Adorama.
I would also steer you towards KEH Photo of Atlanta for your new/used needs, I've delt with them for years and they are very reliable, and offer generous payment for your used equipment, if any.
www.keh.com
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-03-2003, 02:42 PM:
I agree with the Nikon idea. Best 35mm lenses out there that are avilable off the shelf. I prefer the older F series bodies....heavy, and built like a tank! They last and last. For medium format the Mamiya 645, or RB67 is the most economical route. I've recently abandoned 35mm completely and use only digital for day to day pics. I use two view cameras...a 6X9 Galvin view, and a 4X5 Cambo view for everything else. Both systems can interchange the others lenses which are all Rodenstock. This area of the U.S. has too much to photograph to not use at least large format!! The bigger the better out here:).
Also, I rarely buy anything photographic new, except for what ever digital camera I might be using. I only buy used....there's way too much nice clean stuff available at huge savings. I reccomend that you look around locally where you live. You should be able to find anything you need at a fair price.
Mark @ CLACO
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 03-03-2003, 06:11 PM:
After doing some more research, the Nikon line definitely does seem to be the way to go, as they have the best selection of lenses and (it seems) very good manufacturer support of their products. I'm sure that Canon is good, too, but they seem to have mostly abandoned their manual-focus line.
The F100 looks interesting, but is a bit out of my price range and probably more "whiz-bangy" than what I'm looking for right now. The N90 doesn't seem to be a current model (though I will check out used ones).
The FM3A seems to come pretty close to what I am looking for, as it can operate completely mechanically at all shutter speeds, but also has aperture-priority mode and TTL flash operation (the latter of which is semi-important, since I don't have a flash meter). On the other hand, it goes for $500-600, which is roughly the same as used F3s (which appear to have better-quality construction, but lack the capability for full mechanical operation, except at one shutter speed). Thoughts?
I think that medium-format is out at this point. The cheapeast Mamiyas seem to be in the $1500 range (used) and I'm not sure I like the idea of the higher film and processing costs.
Thanks for the suggestions so far and please keep them coming!
Posted by Greg Mueller (Member # 17) on 03-03-2003, 06:33 PM:
I use a Nikon F3 and a Pentax 6x7. The Pentax medium formats are the cheapest out there and can be had used for as little as $550 (used body) lenses are a different story. They have mirror lock up and virtually everything is changeable (focusing screens, view finder etc) Pentax makes some killer lenses too, if you can afford them. Nothin like a 6x7 shot on E100 or 200. You can also get slide projectors that will project the 6x7 transparency. And should you ever do long exposure stuff, their rail system will hold the film flat and keep it from curling even in relatively high humidity.
Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 03-04-2003, 01:59 AM:
It seems like the N90 had an alien remote shutter cable, & the timer was only 10 seconds or so. There was some reason I didn't like it. Whatever you get, make sure it's got a Program mode that will take exposures of 6+ seconds for cave photography in theaters.
I like the F3 a lot, but somehow it never gets out any more. I've got a Ricoh KR30sp which uses Pentax lenses, & it's in a small insulated vinyl lunch bag which I grab & go. It's obsolete, & maybe it knows its days are numbered. It would probably be an eBay bargain.
Before the Ricoh got in the lunch bag with a wide & tele zoom & tabletop tripod, my Nikon FG was the running wild camera. It's light & fun; I replaced the strap with a belt/gate hook from a keyring & it would hang on & be out of the way up ladders, in tiny holes, etc. It really does like to get out & go places.
The Polaroid Spectra is fun, but not even as good as it once was. I had one of the original black body versions that took really decent photos, but a friend broke it; Polaroid instead of repair just replaced it with one of the cheap mediocre new Spectras.
Posted by Hillary Charles (Member # 769) on 03-04-2003, 05:37 PM:
Like Greg, I use an F3 and a Pentax 67 (technically a different model than the 6x7, but for all intents, the same). I love the handling of the Pentax, like a 35mm SLR on steroids. It takes as large an image as I need with relative ease. A used one with a 90mm or 105mm lens possibly could be had for under $1000.
The F3 is my favorite 35mm, and features such as mirror lockup and depth of field preview (also on the Pentax) are invaluable. If you want to stick with 35mm, you won't regret getting the Nikon.
Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 03-04-2003, 06:10 PM:
I have a pair of Nikon F-2A's... Excellent, excellent camera. The only thing that I do not like about them is that the light meter is through the top of the prism and not through the lense, which makes it almost useless...
But, when I first started in photgraphy, a friend and mentor, who was a professional photographer, had me write down a simple chart of what f-stops to use with what shutter speed. After some experience, knowing what shutter speed to use with what f-stop for a given setting will become natural...and you can varry from there.
A very inexpensive camera...but still a simple, rugged and dependable workhorse is the old Pentax K1000.
Another excellent camera that has been out of production for many years is the old Cannon QL-17. It is a non-interchangeable 50mm lense with a match-point viewfinder. These can be found in pawn-shops and camera shows for around $35.00 or so...the last time I checked. Anyhow, Cannon had put an excellent 50mm lense on this inexpensive and simple camera. People just cannot believe the quality of som photos (enlarged and framed) that I took with this baby...and the ole Pentax...prior to my purchase of my Nikons. People wonder about what type of hi-tech equipment I have.
One note about photography...much can be done via the skill and knowledge of the photograper using minimal equipment.
Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 03-04-2003, 06:53 PM:
Will wrote
"----much can be done via the skill and knowledge of photographers using minimal equipment."
Very true indeed. I do not know homw many of you had visited by website at http://www.claudesphoto.com/ but if you do, you will see all of my environmental portraits done only with the camera and natual light. The shot of the couple on my home page as well as the next page showing a close up of a woman was photographed only with a Fiji S1 professional digital camera with a f 2.8 28-105mm Tamron zoom lens let to 105mm at f.2.8. All of my outdoor stuff was shot that way either with my digital camera or my Nikon N90 or F100 film cameras. All of the square pictures on ly site were earlier work that was photographed with a Hassleblad medium format camera.
-Clude
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 03-04-2003, 07:07 PM:
Right now, it still seems to be down to either an FM3A or used F3, but I'm also toying with Will's suggestion just to get something old and obsolete (like an F2) and put the rest of my cash into lenses now and maybe upgrading the body later. The only problem is that I'm afraid of getting a used camera which will either a) fail at an inopportune time and/or b) turn out to be expensive to repair. If I can find something like an F2 in top-notch condition, though, I'd have to think about going that route.
The most important thing to me is to get something that has a simple design and is well built (i.e. not made of plastic), which is somewhat difficult to find in the current market (with the exception of the $1000+ professional-grade bodies).
Medium format is definitely something that I want to consider later, but not now. Aside from the cost, the biggest turn-off about medium format is that my favorite 35mm films (Kodachrome 64 and Tmax 3200) are only available in 35mm. And I'd still probably want a 35mm camera for 35mm slides and general snapshots.
In any case, I'll be hitting the local camera stores this weekend....
Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 03-04-2003, 08:36 PM:
I'd be leery of going with used stuff that is getting close to "obsolete." I am a former Canon guy now stuck with mechanical bodies (FTb, AT-1, F1n) that cannot be repaired (no parts anymore) and a slew of lenses (FD series manual focus) that cannot mount to anything newer. Nikon has been better about continuing to support compatibility with their older lenses.
I suppose I'll eventually go digital to replace my old 35mm capability. In medium-format, my Mamiya 645 is still hanging in there.
Posted by Don Bruechert (Member # 1538) on 03-04-2003, 10:13 PM:
I have been using Olympus gear for maybe 15 years. I started with an OM-PC which is not available anymore, and eventually upgraded to an OM-4T which is still available but has appreciated in value a few hundred bucks since I bought mine. I have had excellent luck with this camera for over 12 years, and I like the selection of lenses and gadgets avaialble for it. I also use several Tamron Lenses in addition to my Olympus ones. This thing has full manual capability, plus a 1/60 sec shutter speed if the batteries fail. It also has an aperature priority and shutter priority auto exposure mode, and an 8 degree spot meter, which I really like. With the dedicated flash F280 the camera will sync at shutter speeds up to 1/2000th of a sec, and it also has an X contact if you want to use professional flash equipment. I was into it big time for a while, and rolled, processed and printed my own film. I have since gotten a bit less gung ho and backed off on the film processing/darkroom work, and he who swore he would never leave film has been known to spend more time with a recently acquired Olympus E-20N digital camera. I know it's a bit off topic, but if you would like to see some of my work I invite you to visit www.donsworld.org
Posted by Harry Robinson (Member # 265) on 03-04-2003, 10:38 PM:
Hi Scott,
Just to jump in for a bit...I bought my 1973 Nikon twenty five years ago. It's never given me a problem. I had it "re-foamed" last year, but that's just routine maintenance. There are all sorts of lenses out there for it. One interesting store I sometimes check out is King Street Photo in Charleston SC. They have a great web site.
Posted by Sean Weitzel (Member # 244) on 03-05-2003, 12:26 AM:
Hey Scott,
I've always been partial to the old Minolta SRT series cameras. Right now I've got an SRT-101 and a 201 that I just love. I've literally beat the tar out of them and they still take the most lovely pictures. The beauty of it is, if they ever suffer an accident or theft, a replacement body is only a $50 ebay auction away. For what it's worth, My fiancee absolutly swears by the Canon AE-1 Program. If I wasn't so vested in Minolta manual focus gear, I'd switch to the Canon line and use her lenses ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 03-05-2003, 12:34 AM:
The AE-1 Program is my absolute favorite camera. That's one that'll last forever.
Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 03-05-2003, 09:11 AM:
I had a Canon AE-1 programmable until a crackhead broke into my house a few years back. He got lots of other stuff too. This kind-of stopped my 35mm still-photo hobby for awhile. One day, I hope to run across another AE-1 the way that I did the one that got stolen. Good camera.
(See my new image. No, I am NOT a crackhead. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
)
Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 03-05-2003, 09:43 PM:
I have always liked Nikon, and my F-2s are very rugged.
Although they have been out of production for quite some time, they are still very popular and hold their value. I have a book at home on Nikon. If anyone needs info I can see if it is in it. The book covers almost the entire realm of Nikon products and includes origonal prices and collectors values. I do not believe that repairing a Nikon F2 would be a problem...so many are traded...just look at e-bay or any photography magazine, etc, etc...
I have heard good things about the AE-1 but have never used one. In my opinion, the more electronics and gadgets the more prone to breakage and more $$ to fix...
If you opt to go to a local camera show...here is some advice...
Most large camera shows usually have an independant camera repairperson on hand. For a small fee, they can check F-stop and shutter speed accuracy and many other things prior to your purchase....
If you opt to purchase used equipment, use some common sense. A lot can be learned by just examining the camera body...Is the body spotless....or is it dinged up. Brassing (the erosion of the origonal finish to reveal the metal body) can also be indicative of the camera having many miles on it. But just because the camera may have a lot of useage does not necessarily mean that it has been abused.
When looking at lenses...check for lense fungus. I do not know what causes this and am under the impression that if the lense has been exposed it is unrepairable. Lense fungus looks like a fine spider-web on the glass. Also look for dents and finish erosion. How stiff is the focus and zoom mechanisms? Has the lense been protected by a uv or polorizing filter? Does the lense have caps on both ends...maybe a case with the humidity/moisture absorbant packs?
Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 03-24-2003, 08:58 PM:
I need to clarify something that I wrote about the Nikon F2. The light meter is center weighted, however, on the early F2, daylight through the top of the prisim illuminated the meter. However, one cannot see the meter with a baseball cap on...or if one is under a shaded area. A later version of the F2 fixed this problem by using led's to illuminate the meter.
Anyhow, I purchased my F2's in 1995. Back then they were really holding their value. A mint condition body could fetch $400.00 or more, and the motor drives and battery packs were also in the $400.00-$500.00 range.
Usually if one went to a camera show, dealers would always ask top price for equipment.
Anyhow, I went to a show this past weekend and was shocked to see how much prices have fallen on all 35mm slr equipment! One dealer was selling a F2 w/ motor drive and battery pack all in beautiful condition for $450.00! WOW! It has been some time since I have been in the buyer's market. And this was not the only F2 there!
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 03-24-2003, 09:29 PM:
For those who care, I ended up getting a really good deal on an F3 in nearly mint condition. I've shot a few rolls of film with it so far and have been very happy with it. The thing is a tank. At the moment, I have two lenses (50mm f/1.8 and 35-105 f/3.5 zoom) and both are noticeably sharper than the Minolta lenses that I used to have (which I had thought were quite decent).
Next on the stuff-to-get-someday list are 24 or 28mm and 200mm lenses and a strobe which fits the F3's oddball flash shoe.
Now for the next question: what's a good, inexpensive slide/negative scanner (preferably with SCSI interface)? I really only need web-quality scans, so cost is a much more important consideration than resolution. Color quality is important, though, and I'd like something that is supported under either Linux (on x86) or Solaris (on Sparc).
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-26-2003, 09:44 AM:
Back in the late 70's I was a camera/optical repair technician at Canon USA. I can definately vouch for the durability of the A series cameras with the A-1 and AE-1 being the best of the electronic camera bunch. There are three I'C's inside the AE-1 and five inside the A-1 all mounted on flexible pcb's. The A-1 is very complicated to repair, and diagnose. Its has an early microprocessor inside it but all in all was reliable. The older F1 is absolutely amazing, built like no other camera, ever made...far better than even the older Nikons. The F1n is not quite as good as the old F-1 is IMHO. Its built lighter, but still has all the same bells and whistles the old F-1 has. It's light meter is certainly far better though and uses a similar silicon blue cell thats inside the A-1. Unfortunately Canon's lenses were always where they were lacking IMHO. Nikor glass was always much, much better, and as a result, I own alot of Canon stuff but I use my Nikon stuff for 35mm. An F-2 body, and many lenses...which I also use on my VistaVision camera. who cares about the repairability of these old Canon and Nikon gems. The labor to repair them is now far more than another good used clean body would cost. Parts may also be another factor in keeping these old friends clicking. Lately, I've pretty much abandoned 35mm and use my Kodak Digital camera for general snapshots. I store all of my digital photos on CD's, and Zip disks. When I shoot I still stand by both of my large format cameras. A CAMBO 4X5 and a Galvin 6X9, both view cameras. Interestingly the Galvin weighs less than half of what my F-2 weighs. So LF photography doesn't have to be bulky!!
Mark @ CLACO
Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 03-26-2003, 03:32 PM:
Kodak film cameras:
Simple Kodak film cameras
Kodak consumer digital cameras:
Kodak Digital Cameras
Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 04-26-2004, 02:41 PM:
It has been 396 days since the last post.
Posted by Joe Beres (Member # 678) on 04-26-2004, 02:41 PM:
I have been considering purchasing a digital camera for a while now, but I am resistant to any P&S camera. So, I have been looking into digital SLR cameras, but they are way out of my price range at the moment.
I have been using an old Pentax P3N (followed the K-1000) manual camera for quite some time, and am pretty happy with it, but Pentax doesn't seem to have much in the Digital SLR camera market, and none of my lenses would be compatible with any digital camera anway, so I have been considering moving into a different 35mm SLR family.
A photographer friend of mine said that Canon is at the forefront of professional digital photography, and recommended looking into the 10D. With that in mind, I have been looking into some of the earlier Canon AF cameras, knowing that any lenses I acquire would be useable with (current) Canon Digital SLRs. I have looked at the EOS 650, and that seems to be a good entry point. It has a fast motor, AF, several shooting modes, and a nice low price.
Does anyone have any advice or other recommendations? It seems that many of you are really into Nikon gear. My friend was as well, until he started working in a studio with all Canon equipment. I would appreciate any input. Thanks!
EDIT: (Weird, what is up with that system notice?)
Posted by Mike Olpin (Member # 1115) on 04-26-2004, 02:59 PM:
That's cool! It lets you know to regard the posts before as out of date. Now someone won't go running out to buy one of the year old obsolete cameras listed above.
Oh yes, and NO SOUP FOR YOU!
Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 04-26-2004, 08:46 PM:
Please consider this camera, which sells for under $500:
Kodak EasyShare DX6490 Camera