This is topic Cost Of Living Expenses in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 04-04-2003, 08:12 PM:
 
In another thread, I mentioned something about those workers "not being able to make it" on a $10.00 per hour job. I think you will find there is more truth to it than BS. I made some rough calculations and they look very grim. Here they are:

At $10.00 per hour based on a 2080-hours per year (260 working days per year), the worker makes $20,800. Of that, $1,654 has to be held to pay Federal Income Tax on their earnings. That leaves $19,146.

Presuming a person rents a modest home for $600.00 per month. Rent paid towards that will be $7,200.00 per year leaving the worker with $11,946.00. Let's say it costs about 100 bucks per month for utilities (heat, lights, water, and sewer). That will cost an additional $1,200.00 per year, leaving the worker $10,746.00.

Most States have a State Income Tax. Based on probably about 2%, that would be $416.00 per year based on a $20,800 income. This leaves the worker with $10,330.00.

Automobile insurance - about $500.00 per year, just a guess. This leaves $9,380.00.

Social Security Taxes run 6.2% of the gross earnings and an additional 1.45% is withheld for Medicare. This total is 7.65% - which calculates to $1591.20 per year, leaving the worker with $7,788.00 per year.

If the worker has a good reliable running car (that has a clear title) it might cost about $.17 per mile to drive it. That might include fuel and maintenance for an average of 12,000 miles per year. That comes up to $2,040 per year, leaving the worker trying to survive with $5,758.00 per year.

Now, add in your phone bill and garbage bill. It would be close to maybe $40.00 per month, (if you don’t make any long distance calls) or $480.00 per year. This leaves the worker with $5,278 per year.

Now, let's divide that by 12, and that gives the worker $439.83 in his/her pocket per month, or $109.95 per week to spend on items such as food, clothes, health insurance, life insurance, renter’s insurance, replacement of broken or worn out furniture, appliances, unexpected additional expenses, car payments (if any) and entertainment.

Congratulations - you just about "broke the bank!"

Now we know why the average credit card holder is $7,000 in debt. Now we know why there are so many personal bankruptcy claims. The overall situation does not look very good at all!

To add a slight twist, there is an old saying: Two can live as cheaply as one." But I have to add this: "For half as long." [Big Grin]

OK, this is an edit to correct my orginal calculation. The bottom line was only $25.89 in error in your favor. Orginally, I posted $84.06.

[ 04-06-2003, 01:11 AM: Message edited by: Paul G. Thompson ]
 
Posted by Aaron Mehocic (Member # 15) on 04-04-2003, 09:08 PM:
 
In my area average income is $26,500. Lawrence County (Pennsylvania) ranks #10 out of 66 counties in total number of people on state assistance. Last year I made $17,365 working two jobs with no fringe benefits at either one. My tax preparer tells me I'm the rule and not the exception among her customers. And as you read this, bear in mind I graduated from an accredited university!
 
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 04-04-2003, 09:22 PM:
 
Aaron, I am sure there are millions of others in the same shoes you are. Just roll up your sleeves, continue to search for a job that pays well. Easier said than done, but perseverance and attitude will be the major keys.

Been there. [Wink]

You have one other important plus in your favor. That is your college degree, and there should be no question about it.
 
Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 04-04-2003, 09:43 PM:
 
The average household income in this area is around $27,000. I have no idea how a family can make it on that. [Eek!]
 
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 04-04-2003, 09:48 PM:
 
David, they probably don't. I'll bet they are butthole deep in debt, and many of them are making minimum payments on their credit card balances (if they have any credit cards left) just to keep the bill collectors off their doorstep.
 
Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 04-04-2003, 10:02 PM:
 
In the last 5 days here:

Also, just as a point of information, Oregon's personal income tax rate peaks at 9%! Ouch. Property taxes are very high too. The only tax we don't have is sales tax (yet).
 
Posted by Aaron Mehocic (Member # 15) on 04-04-2003, 10:59 PM:
 
I don't want to cross the political boundary so I will relate what I say back to theatres. Our new governor, Ed Rendell is proposing cutting property taxes, but increasing sales tax to make up the difference. Guess you win some and lose some - but mostly lose [Roll Eyes] . How does that relate to theatres? You guessed it, higher prices at the stand [thumbsdown]
 
Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 04-04-2003, 11:19 PM:
 
I don't know how many out there follow various economic reports, but in the last two months more than 400,000 people have been put out of work and every economic indicator is down with the exception of new home construction.

It is very obvious businesses worldwide are maximizing their profit margins on the backs of their workers instead of improving their business. They lay off or retire full time workers and replace them with "part time" workers with no benefits and then don't pay the part-timers a livable wage.

Big business has made so many cuts that most people across the nation have very little disposable income --and disposable income is what drives 80% of our economy.

In a few years when all those short-term bullshit methods on improving business has been evaporated and the Fed can no longer afford to keep the prime rate down to 50 year lows things are going to get very ugly.
 
Posted by Mark Ogden (Member # 43) on 04-05-2003, 03:43 AM:
 
______

Automobile insurance - about $500.00 per year, just a guess.
______

Oh man, is THAT ever getting away cheap! Here in New Jersey, with a 100% no points clean license, the insurance on my 2001 Ford Escape, with fairly high deductables AND a 15% steady customer bonus AND a 10% bonus for having my homeowners's insurance thru the same company is still $1645 per year.

OUCH! (and it's probably worse in California).
 
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 04-05-2003, 01:29 PM:
 
Mark, I was left almost speechless when I read what it costs for insurnace in New Jersey. It prompted me to look at mine again.

I have a multi-vehicle policy. The insurance on my 1993 Mercury Topaz is $366.38. My 1986 Ford F-250 has an insurance cost of $481.70. My 1995 C-20 Chevrolet Van has an insurance cost of $499.64 per year. All three vehicles cost me $1371.72 total for one year.

Since I am a cheap SOB, I'll probably kick one of the vehicles off the policy next renewal time. If I have to drive it, I'll re-instate it, naturally. I have done things like this in the past, and it drives the insurance company nuts! [Big Grin]

(edited for a typo)

[ 04-05-2003, 07:52 PM: Message edited by: Paul G. Thompson ]
 
Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 04-05-2003, 03:41 PM:
 
Ok, I'm going to look at this a different way. The communists said "each according to their need." The following example uses me as a model. I'm 40-years-old, single and live in Santa Rosa, CA, where costs are a bit higher than the national average.

These are not my actual numbers, but a solid representation of present conditions.
My rent is a bit less, I don't pay for phone, health insurance, movies, retirement and my car is 9-years-old and paid for.

Monthly

$1,000 Rent (one bedroom apartment in a nice place.)
$100 Utilities (Heat, Garbage, Water)
$40 Cable
$25 Phone
$300 Car ($15,000 financed for 60 months)
$170 Auto running costs ($.17 mile for 12,000 miles per year.)
$80 Auto Insurance
$300 Health Insurance
$300 Food, (I like to eat out a bit.)
$25 Clothing
$70 Entertainment (One movie with popcorn and soda per week)
$90 Vacation
$300 Retirement (10% Net)
$1,650 Tax load (+50% for Fed, State, SS, Medicare)

$4,950 Monthly

$59,400 Annual Salary

$28.56 Per Hour!

Note: You should buy a house instead of rent. But the average house in Sonoma County is $400,000! So if you gave up the new car and mom gave you the down payment, you might be able to afford a $200,000 house.
 
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 04-05-2003, 06:53 PM:
 
Hmmm...I didn't base my figures on 2080 work hours per year, so that threw off my orginal calculations by $1600.

[ 04-05-2003, 08:21 PM: Message edited by: Paul G. Thompson ]
 
Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 04-05-2003, 07:14 PM:
 
Let's look at the extremes.

Ok, lets try to pare this down a bit to local minimums.

Monthly

$600 Rent (Very modest or crappy one bedroom apartment or studio, or two bedroom with roommate.)
$50 Utilities (Heat, Garbage, Water)
$0 Cable
$25 Phone
$0 Car (Paid off)
$170 Auto running costs ($.17 mile for 12,000 miles per year.)
$80 Auto Insurance
$0 Health Insurance (Either paid for by the employer or not at all.)
$200 Food, (Brown Bag it)
$25 Clothing
$25 Entertainment (One movie per week bargain show)
$0 Vacation
$0 Retirement (10% Net)
$590 Tax load (+50% for Fed, State, SS, Medicare)

$1,765 Monthly

$21,180 Annual Salary

$10.18 Per Hour!

Now lets look at how I should be living. This assumes single income, married, and 2 children.

Monthly

$5,600 Mortgage ($700,000 home, in Sonoma County this gets you a 4 bedroom 4 bath 2,500 sq foot house.)
$200 Utilities (Heat, Garbage, Water)
$350 Cleaning Lady (I'm not vacuuming a 2,500 sq foot house)
$180 Yard Service
$180 Pool Service (Wishful thinking on my part, but hey, it's a fantasy.)
$100 Cable
$300 Phone (She likes to talk to her mom in Connecticut every day.)
$300 Cell Phone (One per family member)
$1,550 Cars (Two car leases, mine is a BMW 525 and Hers is a Lexus Sport Utility)
$500 Auto running costs ($.25 mile for 12,000 miles per year.)
$300 Auto Insurance
$1,000 Health Insurance
$1,000 Food,
$200 Clothing
$300 Entertainment (One Movie per week for a family of 4 with one play per month for the parents)
$500 Vacation
$2,000 School (I'm not sending the kids to public school)
$1,456 Retirement (10% Net)
$8,008 Tax load (+50% for Fed, State, SS, Medicare)

$24,024 Monthly

$288,288 Annual Salary (Let's just say $350,000 to start)

$168.30 Per Hour!
 
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 04-05-2003, 07:29 PM:
 
Ian, that is definately a "wake-up call" for all to study..
 
Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 04-05-2003, 08:17 PM:
 
Ian,
If you're a relatively financially secure single guy living in a "preferred" place in Los Angeles, here is a rough guide as to what it costs...

Monthly:

$3,600 Mortgage ($800,000 home with $300,000 down payment. In Hollywood Hills this gets you a 2 bedroom 3 bath 1,900 sq foot house.)
$300 Utilities (Elect, Gas, Water)
$000 Cleaning Lady (I'm remolding and I let the place look like shit!) [beer]
$100 Yard Service
$000 Pool Service (Don't have a pool any longer….)
$90 Satellite HD TV ...Cable sucks [Big Grin]
$200 Phone & DSL
$120 Cell Phone
$000 Cars … Explorer Sport Utility - paid for. (ex STILL!!!!! Has my Corvette!) [fu]
$500 Auto running costs ($.25 mile for 24,000 miles per year.)
$105 Auto Insurance
$400 Health Insurance
$1,500 Food … in & out
$200 Clothing & personal items
$1000 Discretionary and Entertainment (All forms) [thumbsup]
$000 Vacation…Didn't have one for 14 years, now I'm on a permanent vacation! [beer]
$000 School (Been there, did that)
$1,100 Retirement
$6,500 Income Tax load...FIT, SIT, FICA, SDI, etc. (Singles really take it up the ass!) [fu]
$600 Property taxes

About $16,315 Monthly Gross

$196k Annual Salary

$94.00 Per Hour

By the time you look at all the hidden taxes, like city services, phone services, sales tax, etc, …we are being double and triple taxed to hell!

At least as far as income goes, I wish the hell they would do the flat tax thing where EVERYONE pays a fixed percentage of their income….fair to ALL!

>>> Phil
 
Posted by Tristan Lane (Member # 1169) on 04-05-2003, 08:29 PM:
 
I guess Spokane isn't a bad place after all.

A nice 3bd 2ba apartment will run you about $700.00 a month.

You can a build a new 3bd 2ba house in sub-developmentville for less than 100K and taking into considerations the current interest rate, the mortgage would be around $570.00 month.

Sales tax is a hair over 8% but utilities are realatively low.

As Paul stated, auto insurance is nice and low.
 
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-05-2003, 08:42 PM:
 
Heck, in Salt Lake City 300k a year will get you a deluxe 10 bdrm home above the capitol building so you can spit right down onto the politicians heads [beer]
Mark
 
Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 04-05-2003, 08:50 PM:
 
Here in L.A., there are many "good" and desirable places that have much lower expenses. I know, I did it for many years while "working-my-way-up" and then while being raped for what I was paying for child-support! Even making $90-100k/yr, you're lucky to keep 15-20k/yr after taxes by the time the courts get through with you! Thank God, that's all been behind me for several years now. [thumbsup]

Again, EVERYONE is free to live where they prefer and feel the most grounded. One man's "heaven" is another's armpit. ...I know several people that are N2 armpits...Oh, wait! That's a different thread! [evil]

>>> Phil
 
Posted by Don Bruechert (Member # 1538) on 04-06-2003, 01:53 PM:
 
Paul,

Bit of news from the home front: Mirro will be out of here by end of Summer, putting about 900 people out of work. They are taking their operation to Mexico, where I guess it is much cheaper to produce cookware.

For this post in general:

It is a LOT cheaper to live over here in Podunk!! My current fixed expenses are probably around $600 per month, and I probably spend another $600 on "optional extras" that I could dump if a crisis approached. Working 3 jobs (2 of them for fun money) my approximate take home pay after taxes is about $3000 a month. This is with vehicle paid off and includes rent, insurances and phone. The optional extras include a cellphone, satellite TV, 2nd phone line, enhanced DSL, gas for me to drive places just because I feel like driving, and eating out a couple times a week (plus breakfast and lunch from cafeteria at work - weekdays).

In return for this cost savings, I live in a town that doesn't have a whole helluva lot to do in it and you typically have to drive an hour to find any serious culture.
 
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-06-2003, 02:03 PM:
 
"I live in a town that doesn't have a whole helluva lot to do in it and you typically have to drive an hour to find any serious culture."

Don,
Nothing to do??? You practically have a direct pipeline to all the brewries in the state! Then, we have brewries here too...sorta [Roll Eyes] .
Mark
 
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 04-06-2003, 03:12 PM:
 
Don, yes. I heard Mirro was closing. It was a major employer in Manitowoc besides Manitowoc Equipment Works and the Manitowoc Ship Yards.

Manitowoc was a stagnitated town even when I graduated from Lincoln in 1958. There was nothing there then, and there is really nothing there now. [Frown]

Mark, Wisconsin has been known to be a leading state in making beer, toilet paper, cheese and ice machines. Hell, when I lived there, just about every corner on the street had the same thing: A bar, a gasoline station, a church, and a grocery store. Back in my day, it you could see over the top of the bar, you were old enough to buy a beer. [Big Grin]

Entertainment at its best. [puke]

The biggest lawyer firm was "Muschin, Muschin, Muschin, Muschin, and Muschin". (maybe it was Mushin)- whatever it was, it was known as "Mooshkins" [Big Grin]

They also ran the leading junk yard.

However, it was a beautiful town. But it had no future. One-half of the graduating class of 1958 at Lincoln High left town to pursue a meaningful career.

In 1958, the population was about 27,598. In 2002, the population was about 34,053. That's a 6,455 increase over 44 years. Not too good.....as compared to other towns.

But, maybe slow growth is a good thing after all, depending how you want to look at it. At least, people making a meager wage can still live rather than exist in Manitowoc.
 
Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 04-06-2003, 04:18 PM:
 
Cost of living question:

Is it better to stretch and purchase the most house you can get for your money? This means not funding your retirement, putting off vacations, driving a used car, having no savings and worrying about your cash flow.

Or is it better to buy a much less expensive home that is well within your comfort level and fund retirement, savings and possibly investments?

The reason I ask is that so far in my lifetime, a house purchase has out performed all other investments. Possibly not including owning a movie theatre. Time will tell. I am about to purchase a house that will be at the absolute limit of my cash flow. It is making me nervous to say the least. I may have to get a roommate.
 
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 04-06-2003, 06:10 PM:
 
Ian, I think it should be a modest dwelling, clean and comfortable and in good condition so you don't have to pay an arm and a leg to maintain it.

Personally, I would never over-buy on a house. I would base my purchase on "what if"....it may sound paranoid, but it works.

Mine is paid for, and so is my property. All I have to contend with is property tax, and that's about it.

It is better off to buy (in my opinion) than to make mortgage payments. At least that way an equity can be built up that might save the owner's butt, especially during hard times.

For those who make a living on 10 bucks an hour (and we will see more and more of this) may not be considered a "qualified buyer" especially if their credit card balances and other bills are high.

Only downside I know of about owning your own dwelling is property taxes. They are constantly going up, and in some locations, they are already out of sight!
 
Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 04-06-2003, 06:29 PM:
 
Ian

At least, You don't need to spend money on a bed. -You can always sleep on a platter [sleep]

p
 
Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 04-06-2003, 08:00 PM:
 
For me, I much rather take "educated" risks. I have always bought houses that were a stretch of what I could afford at that particular time. I may have given up a new car or that tricked-out audio/video thingy for awhile, but I never denied my family the "comforts" of life. I guess I'm a positive-thinker and always had a sense of "things-will-always-be-better-in-the-future." [beer]

I have always felt if you buy a house that's ***temporarily*** "over-your-head", within the year, my income will increase, the value of the house will increase, and the value of the $ will go down. So, what you spend today will catch up with you tomorrow and you'll be much further ahead. Sorta like a leap-frog game. [thumbsup]

There is no question that it is better to own your own house rather than pay rent. Investment aside, property taxes will always increase no matter if you own or rent. The difference being is that if you rent, YOU still pay the taxes ...only the LANDLORD gets the write-off! All the landlord's expenses are "hidden" in the rent. [fu]

To me, it is ALWAYS better to have the biggest mortgage you can reasonably afford and get the benefit of the tax write-offs for the interest. After paying the interest and taxes and other write-offs allowed by owning your own house, my tax bracket typically falls to 12-15% instead of the "F*CK-THE-SINGLE-GUY" bracket! [sex]

And "IF" everything turns to shit, you can always scale-back and re-group. I've done that too. But in the long run, I feel I'm much better off than if I took the "conservative" route. [evil]

As the physical labor of building construction is great therapy for me, I often bought "fixers" that required some work. Nothing too radical, just things to make it "my" place. I found that when it came time to re-sell, I would make a handsome profit that I applied to the next house up my ladder. I've done this about 5 times. [beer]

I consider my current house, my "dream" and "final" house as it is the one I have always wanted. It is also the most ambitious remodeling project I have undertaken. Out of 1900 sq ft, I removed all the interior walls and stripped the inside all back to the bare studs on the outside walls and ceilings in about 1200 sq ft. I did all the framing of new rooms, plumbing, wiring, drywall, finish carpentry, etc. I really find the remodeling and sense-of-accomplishment to be very rewarding. [thumbsup]

Just my personal opinion…

>>> Phil
 
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 04-06-2003, 09:23 PM:
 
Yes, Phil. It is sometimes a calculated risk. But for many, it is a very risky, indeed. They can backfire, and some have. I still like the paranoid approach. [Smile]

My income hovers around $33,000 and I don't like to take unnecessary chances.
 
Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 04-06-2003, 10:07 PM:
 
I think many people in this country take emotional, impulsive risks rather than anything "educated." That's one of the reasons why the debt load in this country is so great. People buy houses, cars, clothes, furniture, vacations and lots of other stuff they cannot afford. Of my friends uses the term "getting your dick stretched out." People push that debt until the damned thing snaps and breaks off.

The massive interest rate cuts are supposed to give everyone more breathing to pay down debt and live a little less imprisoned. But there is potential many will use that extra slack to spend even deeper into debt.

One of the reasons I live in Lawton, OK of all places is having a somewhat nice financial balance. I have a good job. I'm not living paycheck to paycheck and am able to actually save up a growing amount of money. Not a lot, but enough to be secure. Cost of living here is dirt cheap compared to most places. And it is in the warm sun belt. There is some nice scenery here. Yes, we actually do have some mountains in Oklahoma. It's not all flat boring plains. My water, gas, electricity and phone bill combined rarely rise above $150 per month (and I have DSL at that). One of the tradeoffs is I live in a pretty modest little 2 bedroom house in a decent part of town and my house payment is around $350 per month.

Lawton does have its drawbacks. It sure isn't Hollywood. There's not a great deal of exciting social life here (unless you think the divorce notices in the paper are exciting), but there are some good recreational and nature type features here (the Wichita Mountains Wildlife Refuge, lakes, etc). I halfway expect Lawton to be spotlighted in the upcoming HBO America Undercover special on crystal methamphetamine use in rural America (Oklahoma is #1 in crank, and Comanche County has among the highest meth abuse rates in the state). This area is also #1 in divorce. But I think that is only because there's not enough people of my peer group living and working here (college educated professionals in their thirties). Out of my own selfish concern I want more of those kinds of people moving here so I can make more REAL friends and better my chances of meeting a decent lady.

Things on Lawton's side: low cost of doing business, central location in US, low cost of living. You can build a really nice house here for under $200,000 whereas in many cities you would pay well over $1 million for it. I'm just hoping enough progressive business people will have the guts to take a chance on this place and help improve what could possibly become a really nice city.

Across the country, there needs to be added incentive to improve things. So much of business these days revolves around financial cons and dodges. Some jerk in his glass tower thinks he's great for making $100 million before he is thirty. We'll put him on the cover of a magazine but not mention all the people he screwed to make that fortune. Little things like eliminating full time workers, benefits and bonuses are items which create bean counter assholes like that.

I don't have a glamorous job, but I actually create a tangible product for a living. There is evidence of what I do standing across this region and I am proud of my work. People who actually create something or provide a real service rather than just do clever paper shuffling should be proud of themselves. They do more to keep this economy running than the finance scam artists who threaten to bring down the whole thing.
 
Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 04-07-2003, 12:07 AM:
 
Paul,
I agree, it is a calculated risk...and I am not knocking your philosophy. But I believe in the saying "nothing ventured, nothing gained." Also, one has to be savvy about things and make the best decisions they can at that particular time. That not only applies to housing, investments, business, personal relationships, but to life in general. I FIRMLY believe in that.

And, as I mentioned, one can always cut-back and regroup IF things get financially bad.

Even now, I am very fortunate that if everything should turn to shit, I can get rid of my house, take my profit, and move to a place less-expensive and purchase a house out-right...and still have plenty left over to live on until I croak! If I live to be over 120, then my kids will get NOTHING...It'll be all used up! HAhahahahahah [Big Grin]

I do not think income level has anything to do with clear-thinking decisions and the desire to improve one's position. I have made much less than you stated for many years while honing my talents and gaining experience. While my main goal was NOT money-orientated, I did enjoy the benefits that came along with my pursuit of knowledge and a better life.

Don't get me wrong, I'm am not "well-off" so to speak, but over the years I have worked very hard and have expanded and taken advantage of my God-given talents and I have planned well for the future.

I know my philosophy is not for everyone, but it has worked for me.

>>> Phil
 
Posted by Lionel Fouillen (Member # 1475) on 04-07-2003, 10:35 AM:
 
Around here, real estate is cheap. It's the cars, phone, TV and things like that which cost a lot. Income taxes are very high as well: it starts at 25% but many people are paying 30-35%. As a freelance IT consultant, I pay 45% income tax and some people pay over 50%. Taxes like VAT are also high: 21% on all goods and services!!!

On the other hand, I only pay 500€/month (1€ = 1US$) to rent a flat in a nice area, with 1 bedroom + secured car park. My car insurance is also killing me: 2,000€/year for "total" protection, because I'm a "risky" person: young, living downtown, and freelance (hence using my car all day long for professional reasons). And I'm NOT driving what you may call a "big" car, I only have a "normal" car.

Examples of prices in Belgium(1€ = 1US$):
(including 21% tax)

- TV tax + cable susbscription: 28€/month
- Phone: 25€/month subscription, plus communications!
- Internet DSL connection: 18€/month
- Movie ticket: 4€ (art house) - 6€ (multiplex)
- Car gas: 1€/L (my car uses so-called Diesel: 0.75€/L)
- 1 McDonald's menu: 5€
 




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