Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: US Navy ship numbers help needed

This is topic US Navy ship numbers help needed in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=001974

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 04-08-2003, 03:50 PM:

I am organising and renaming the pictures I took during my recent trip to San Diego.
I thought the numbers painted on the ship hulls were unique to each ship. After googling ship numbers, I found several sites listing historic and present hull numbers. Now I am confused. hullnumbers.com for instance lists "27" for several different aircraft carriers:
AKV-27 USS MARCUS ISLAND
CVE-27 USS SUWANNEE
CVHE-27 USS SUWANNEE
CVL-27 USS LANGLEY

And what is the difference between CVE and CVHE? [Confused]

Posted by Jason Burroughs (Member # 68) on 04-08-2003, 04:40 PM:

A good site for the world's navies is www.hazegray.org

The numbers may be repeated accross different classifications, therefore not all ships will have a unique number

CVE = Escort Carrier
CVHE= Helicopter Escort Carrier

Suwannee
ex merchant Markay
AO 33 - AVG 27 - ACV 27 - CVE 27 - CVHE 27
Photos: [During WWII],
DANFS History

Built by Federal (Kearny). Laid down 3 June 1939, launched 4 March 1940, completed as a merchant tanker (date?). Acquired by USN 26 June 1941 as oiler, redesignated AO 33 and renamed; commissioned as oiler 9 July 1941. Redesignated AVG 27 14 Feb 1942; converted to carrier at Newport News, commissioned 24 Sept 1942. Designation changed from AVG to ACV 20 August 1942 prior to commissioning.

Designation changed from ACV to CVE 15 July 1943. Bombed 25 and 26 Oct 1944, damaged by internal explosion 24 May 1945. Decommissioned to reserve 28 Oct 1946. Redesignated as a helicopter escort carrier (CVHE 27) 12 June 1955 while in reserve. Stricken for disposal 1 March 1959. Sold and scrapped in 1962.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 04-08-2003, 05:06 PM:

Jason named it correctly.

BTW, the "27" number you cited is the hull number of a specific ship. However, if someone speaks of a "27" number, it might be referencing a certain class of ships designed to do basically the same job, such as aircraft carriers. The "27" in this case is the tonnage. The 27C carriers were 27,000 tons displacement. Those are of the ESSEX class, which were very popular in WWII.

Here is a list of the 27,000-ton carriers of WWII:

The Midway class is next. They weighed in at 47,000 tons.
Next was the Forrestal class. They weighed in at 56,000 tons.
As time went on, they got heavier and heavier.

[ 04-08-2003, 08:24 PM: Message edited by: Paul G. Thompson ]

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 04-08-2003, 05:20 PM:

The number means tonnage? Is that right? I'm just wondering because I have some Navy souvenir caps that don't seem to make sense.

For example, I have a cap from the USS Forrestal, the first "super carrier" in the Navy's fleet. Its number is CV-59. The ship is now decommissioned; one fellow I knew who served aboard it over a decade ago called it a hunk of junk.

OTOH, another cap I have is from the USS Lake Champlain, a Ticonderoga class guided missile cruiser (and the third ship in the Navy's history to carry the name). Its number designation is CG-57. That ship, while very intimidating, is a good bit smaller than an aircraft carrier.

So I guess I'm a little confused about those numbers.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 04-08-2003, 05:30 PM:

Bobby, the hull number has no real meaning for tonnage. I must apologize for the confusion. I didn't read Michael's post carefully enough. The "27" hull numbers Michael pointed out are for different ships designed for a different purpose.

By the way, the picture of the carrier Michael posted is of the USS John C. Stennis (CVN-74) which was named after Senator John Stennis. It is a 1,092-foot long ship, with a beam of 257 feet. The over-all height from the mast to the keel is 244 feet which is equal to a 24-story building. The area of the flight deck is 4.7 acres, and she weighs in at 97,000 tons.

[ 04-08-2003, 08:34 PM: Message edited by: Paul G. Thompson ]

Posted by Jason Burroughs (Member # 68) on 04-08-2003, 08:54 PM:

The Forrestal was infact the first "super-carrier" that today's modern carriers are derived from. No 2 ships, even in the same class are exactly alike. The Forrestal was the first carrier to be designed and built with the angled deck, Other carriers in the Essex and Midway classes had the angled decks added on later.

The Forrestal saw a very long active service life, and its share of mishaps - during the 60's there was a large fire on the flight deck, killing many sailors, and blowing 7 holes in the deck. After this incident it became nick-named the Forrest-fire.

Pictures an histories on just about all the US Navy ships can be found at HazeGray.org

They even have data on the navies of other countries, including pics of one of Australia's newest subs.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 04-08-2003, 09:20 PM:

Speaking of nicknames for the carriers, here are a few:

USS Ticonderoga (CV-14) Tyco Tiger
USS Hancock (CV-19)= <ahem> [Big Grin]

USS Bon Homme Richard (CV-31) = Bonnie Dick
USS Kearsarge (CV-33) = Queer Barge
USS Oriskany (CV-34) = Mighty "O"
USS Shangri-La (CV-38) = Shitty Shang
USS Coral Sea (CV-43) = Coral Maroo
USS Forrestal (CV-59) = Forrest Fire
USS Saratoga (CV-60) = Sarah Mahooch
USS Ranger (CV-61) = USSR
USS Kitty Hawk (CV-63) = Shitty Kitty
USS Constellation (CV-64) = Constipation
USS Enterprize (CV-65) = Tunaprize...Chicken of the Sea

About that time I retired from the navy, so I didn't keep up with the nicknames from that point. [Big Grin]

Posted by Gerard S. Cohen (Member # 994) on 04-08-2003, 10:14 PM:

The USS Oriskany rings a memory bell. Pretty sure I witnessed her launching at the Brooklyn Navy Yard during WW II,
when a schoolmate's father who worked on her construction invited
us to the event.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 04-08-2003, 10:33 PM:

The USS Oriskany (CVA-34) (CV-34) was home to me for three years, 1970 to 1973.

Also, the "O" boat (another nickname) was used in the filming of the movie, "Tora Tora Tora" - the first time in history where civilian aircraft were allowed to fly off and on a military ship, so I have been told.

Also, the "O" Boat was used in the movie, "Bridges over Toko-Ri."

The Oriskany floats in shambles now in Beaumont, Texas. There is talk that it will be towed to Florida and scuttled off the coast as an artificial reef for Scuba divers.

Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 04-08-2003, 10:44 PM:

American WWI thru WWII submarines were numbered SS-### and for the most part were named after fish. There are still many Fleet Type boats around the U.S. as war memorials...COD SS 224 in Cleveland, the Silversides and German U-Boat 505 in Chicago, Batfish, the one in San Franscisco on Fishermans Wharf (which has been used in many films) and the one in Hawaii.

A friend of mine was a guest on the commissioning party for the USS Tucson and was able to be at her helm....

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 04-08-2003, 11:19 PM:

The Submarine at Fisherman's Wharf in San Francisco is the USS Pampanito (SS-383). One of the movies Will speaks of was "Down Persicope."

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 04-09-2003, 12:04 AM:

Super carriers are cool, and underestimated in terms of firepower by some lay persons. During a political science class back in art school, the obviously left-leaning instructor insulted carriers as overpriced sitting ducks. So I raised my hand and asked how he would expect to conduct an attack on one. If you approach from the air, there's all kinds of surface to air missiles and three Phalanx chain guns that can be trained on you. And then you have to consider aircraft carriers are typically accompanied by a carrier task force of Aegis class battle cruisers and destroyers. There's usually an Awacs plane up in the sky someplace. And there may be one or two Ohio class nuclear submarines patrolling the depths.

Supercarriers are not sitting ducks. They are one of the most effective means of power projection seen in military history.

When I lived in New York I would check out the carriers that steamed into the bay for Fleet Week. I was able to visit the USS Forrestal one year and the USS America another year. More eerie was a tour of the USS Iowa battleship less than a year before that terrible gun turret accident (I have some nice photos of the ship traveling under the Verrazano Narrows Bridge with the historic Fort Wadsworth ruins in the foreground).

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 04-09-2003, 06:34 AM:

So the number is unique to every ship of one class but not in the whole Navy? In other words, there may be other ships currently with nr. 74, but there is only one aircraft carrier 74? I had assumed that the number was unique throughout the Navy since I read the series of Hornblower novels, and they had a unique number for every ship which was indicated by flag signals and they could look it up or use the numbers to specifically address one ship.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 04-09-2003, 01:22 PM:

Michael, if I understand your question correctly, the answer is yes. For instance, BB-36 was the Great Battleship Missouri, and CVA-63 is the aircraft carrier Kitty Hawk.

By the way....the Pampanito's engines were not run in the movie "Down Persicope." On the Pampanito's website, there is a picture of her sailing under the GG Bridge. Actually, she was being towed on a submerged towing bridle.

Posted by Chris Markiewicz (Member # 1415) on 04-09-2003, 03:33 PM:

The WW2 submarine on display at Pearl Harbor is the USS Bowfin.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 04-09-2003, 03:46 PM:

There is also a submarine in Manitowoc, WI. I forgot the name of it. Don from manitowoc might chime in and cite the name.

My grandfather worked at the Manitowoc Shipbuilding Company. They built many subs for WWII. I remember watching some of the launches when I was a small boy. One of his brother-in-laws was the bridge tender on 8th street which crosses the Manitowoc River. Don's Theatre is about 2 or 3 blacks away from that river.

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 04-09-2003, 04:09 PM:

I have to admit that I am a ship buff and I am fascinated by those big ships and the submarines especially. The technical aspects of these ships are very interesting. Submarines are like spaceships. So I want to research which ships I saw. There was a guide who explained a lot about the ships we were passing, but I can`t remember all of it. Especially the names I have mostly forgotten.

Posted by Bernard Tonks (Member # 809) on 04-10-2003, 05:07 AM:

I visited San Diego about a month before Michael, during the week before the annual naval and air display weekend. The vast number and sizes of shipping was just awesome!

Here is a poor still from 8mm video of one of the largest hospital ships ever constructed.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 04-10-2003, 04:06 PM:

Bernard, what are the specs on that thing?

Posted by Bernard Tonks (Member # 809) on 04-10-2003, 07:42 PM:

Sorry Paul, I’m unable to give you any specs. At a rough guess I could have been a quarter to half a mile away, but as you will appreciate being a navy person, when you are at sea it is deceiving. I can only compare the hospital ship being at least the length of the largest oil tanker. I was made to realise what a mighty powerful nation America is, I felt in safe hands. I was very impressed with the security, there were sea and helicopter patrols around the bay.

I go to Southampton weekly to do the food shopping, and stop off at a place called Netley which is still a village preserved in appearance from the 1950s, it even had it’s own cinema called the Abbey built in 1937 which had a short lifespan of just 20 years, only recently demolished after bingo and storage use. Netley is off the Southampton waters where the ill-fated Titanic sailed on her maiden voyage. As for deception of distance at sea, I have often seen the QE2 sail, and it always seems small to me. The new massive Queen Mary 2 will be sailing from Southampton. I will try and take some pictures of shipping, problem is on that side it is mostly against the sun. The other side of the waters are all the large oil refineries.

Posted by Mike Fitzgerald (Member # 1304) on 04-10-2003, 09:15 PM:

The Battlship North Carolina is berthed here in Wilmington NC.

I am restoring the Devry projectors that they have purchased so we can show movies down in the galley during the living history that they do onboard.We are looking for lamphouses for the Devrys if any knows where we can locate a couple

[ 04-10-2003, 10:57 PM: Message edited by: Mike Fitzgerald ]

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 04-10-2003, 10:23 PM:

Here's what is left of the USS Oriskany (CVA-34) which was my happy home from 1970 to 1973. Very sad, indeed.

Posted by Mike Fitzgerald (Member # 1304) on 04-10-2003, 10:56 PM:

Where was the picture of the Oriskany taken. Where I used to live is near Oriskany New York and I think they have the anchor and a plane form her Bob Throop would know better.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 04-11-2003, 12:30 AM:

Mike, that picture was taken in Beaumont, Texas when she was towed there for scrapping. And yes...you are correct about the anchor. I don't know about the aircraft, though.

It kind of has the title "The ship that refuses to die"...

There is a story that it is haunted by those who lost their lives during the tragic fire at sea on October 26, 1966.

I also understand Japan wanted to buy the ship and use it as a floating museum since it is the only Essex class carrier that never saw World War II action. Supposedly a big flap pursued about who would get the contract to make her seaworthy for the towing to Japan. After so much bickkering and bitching, Japan said "Screw it".

There were several attempts to scrap it, although the actual scrapping started a long time ago. When it was towed out of Bremerton, WA, I think it went to Astoria, Ore. where the scrapping started. For some reason or another, they could not continue to scrap it there and the ship was repossessed by the navy. So, they towed it to Mare Island shipbreakers, which went bankrupt. Once again, the ship was repossessed, and towed around South America to Beaumont, Texas. There she sits now.

The navy spent millions of dollars hauling it around. It would have been far more cost effective if they would just have hauled it out to sea and scuttled.

As I mentioned before, plans are in the mill to scuttle it off the coast of Florida as an artifical reef for Scuba divers.

Anyway, as of this day, it is still afloat - in Beaumont, Texas. I understand the Oriskany was named after the Battle of Oriskany in upstate New York.

Above are the stories I have heard. They could be true, and maybe not-so-true, as I never verified those stories. But one thing I do believe, and that thing is definately haunted. I lived on that damned thing for three years. Somewhere in one of my old posts on FT, the haunting of the "0" boat was discussed.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 04-11-2003, 08:29 AM:

My brother served as a weapons specialist on the USS Independence (CVA-62) in the early 1960's. Based in Norfolk VA, with several tours of the Mediterranean:

http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/62.htm

http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/carriers/cva62.htm

http://www.navsource.org/archives/02idx.htm