Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: She wants me to move the toilet 6 inches to the RIGHT!

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 05-03-2003, 09:02 AM:

Do you remember when I was talking about fixing up the bathroom in my old house? Well, as we were working we noticed a couple of odd things.

Notable of which is that the commode in the upstairs bathroom is 6 inches too far to the left. The "rider" will have his/her left shoulder practically right up against the wall. It's a nice feature for when you come home drunk, late at night. You don't have to worry about balancing yourself while on the pot but for everyday use, it's a bit annoying.

So, the wife suggests to me that we should MOVE the toidy a little to the right, making it easier for people to use. I'm trying to tell her, "No. You don't REALLY want to DO that."
I tried showing her the cast iron plumbing "stack" that goes up through the walls from the basement but to no avail. Now that she sees the joints in the pipes she thinks they are like "Tinkertoys" that you just snap together in any shape you want. There's no understanding about the fact that these pipes were soldered together with caulking, lead and a blowtorch more than 50 years ago.

I tried to tell her that this little manuver is liable to cost $1,000 or more. I said that it would be "nice" to have the crapper moved 6 inches to the right but it wouldn't be $1,000-nice.

Help me out... PLEASE! [Wink]

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-03-2003, 10:31 AM:

You should do like most theaters that have offset toilets and make it a point to put your toilet paper dispenser also on the left and as low as possible. There's nothing quite as enjoyable as having 2 feet below the roll of paper so you get to bend over at an awkward angle while simultaneously trying to keep the paper off of the floor as you are unrolling it. Extra points go to dispensers that have so much tension that the paper keeps ripping, or alternatively dispensers that appear to have the roll mounted on bearings. [Roll Eyes]

Yeah I know that doesn't really help, but that's an awful big undertaking just to move the toilet. Have you considered moving the offending wall instead? It just might be easier.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 05-03-2003, 10:39 AM:

Think up some local authority health and safety regulation why it can't be done. Pity you're not on this side of the pond - the European Union probably does have a law that stops you from moving a loo! But how about 'sorry dear, the State of Pennsylvania Hygiene Equipment Public Health Ordinance no, 3742 states that a toilet bowl cannot be situated more than X inches from a weight-bearing wall, because of potential contamination issues arising from its use in an open space.'

Best I can do, I'm afraid...

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 05-03-2003, 12:06 PM:

I guess you will just have to move the wall six inches. [Big Grin]

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 05-03-2003, 12:17 PM:

Now she says that I have to move the wall by 6 inches! [Eek!]

Posted by Rachel Gilardi (Member # 1016) on 05-03-2003, 12:52 PM:

Haha, thats why us women have you guys! [Wink]

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 05-03-2003, 05:23 PM:

I wouldn't move anything unless it was ultra-ridiculous like 1 inch or something.

Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 05-03-2003, 07:25 PM:

Moving the toilet 6" is an invitation to totally remodel the bathroom. So ask her to design the bath of her dreams. Then price it out. Have her then make all the compromises to get the cost down to a reasonable level. She might just say 'fuck it, I'll live with the toilet.'

Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 05-03-2003, 08:10 PM:

A bachelor's life is sure easy !

p.

Posted by John Lasher (Member # 968) on 05-03-2003, 09:55 PM:

My mom suggests a corner toilet.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 05-03-2003, 10:16 PM:

John, My suggestion was to twist the toilet about 45 degrees clockwise. If this is done, a corner toilet MAY actually be an option. We're having somebody come over Monday evening to look at the situation and tell us how much this deal is likely to cost. I think that moving or otherwise repositioning the toilet is a good idea but I don't think it's worth the money that's we'd likely have to sink into it!

We'd be literally flusing our money dow-... Oh, never mind... [Wink]

This bathroom probably used to be the closet for the upstairs "spare" bedroom. It's 35 inches wide and 8 feet long. The left side wall (viewed from the doorway) is bent as if the room used to be square but had the corner clipped off. The commode is at the extreme end of the room. There is a sink two feet in front of the sitter.

To me, it's obvious that the house was walled up and the plumbing was roughed in when somebody decided that there should be a bathroom upstairs. (A good thing, actually.) They took the closet space from the bedroom and made it into its own room. I'm sure the soil pipe was put in right about that time. If that bent wall was left straight, the commode would have been smack-dab in the middle of the room. However, if it was left that way the room would only have been, maybe 2-1/2 feet wide. Certainly not wide enough to get MY fat ass in there! The solution was to move the wall a 1/2 foot. BUT... when that was done they found that it would bisect the window opening for the afformentioned bedroom. Thus, the bent wall and the offset commode.

I know where the stack goes up through the house to get to the second floor. There is where ANOTHER compromise was made. A "pillar" was built out of the corner of the wall in the bathroom downstairs to hide the pipe. As a matter of fact, the DOWNSTAIRS toilet is offset by about 6 inches too! It appears to me that the downstairs commode would have been in the center of the space but for the pipe they had to add in for the one upstairs.

This is where stuff gets really hairy! If that soil pipe has to be moved, we're going to have to tear out the walls in the downstairs bathroom as well as the floor in the upstairs! All I can hope for is that there is enough pipe going horizontally from the top of the stack to the closet flange. If there is, hopefully, all that has to be done is to tear out the floor in the upstairs bathroom, cut off the horizontal pipe and splice-in an extra length of PVC to move the commode.

All of this presupposes that there is no rule about the removal of old cast iron plumbing stacks. Normally, I would think a Neoprene sleeve would be good enough to join the old pipe to the new. However, if there is an ordinance that has something to the effect of a "grandfather clause" we'd be screwed.

Please, God! Let there be an ordinance! [Big Grin]

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 05-03-2003, 11:10 PM:

Forget all the hastle...

Just do as many places in the Far East.... remove the toilet and squat over the pipe. Make sure to supply a garden hose for the "washdown" [Eek!]

>>> Phil

Posted by Peter Berrett (Member # 672) on 05-04-2003, 06:32 AM:

Randy

Phil beat me to it with this idea.

Firstly, install a squat toilet, then leave it disgustingly dirty (I won't describe how).

If your wife is anything like mine, she'll be so disgusted she will go downstairs to the loo and won't care where the upstairs toilet is located.

If your wife asks why you have installed a squat toilet, say that your Doctor advised you to do it for health reasons [Smile]

cheers Peter

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 05-04-2003, 04:54 PM:

Just get a bucket that can be moved. [Big Grin]

When it is full, just wait for a politican walk by and heave it's contents out the window. [evil]

Posted by Lance C. McFetridge (Member # 95) on 05-04-2003, 05:31 PM:

If you really must use a Fernco Coupling, this site may help. If you are going to the expense of a new floor, it may be rather easy to move it 6 inches provided that the floor joist and any beams are not in that area.
http://www.fernco.com/noframes/coupchrt.html
lance

Posted by Gerard S. Cohen (Member # 994) on 05-04-2003, 06:32 PM:

The above suggestions ALL refer to hardware and construction, which can be expensive.

Another approach is to change the habits of the users. This will cost nothing.
There's more than one way to mount a commode. If one sits facing the rear, as on a bidet, you can lean to the opposite side, which will straighten your spine, which may have become bent sideways over time.
Or, one can learn to sit sidesaddle. When she became queen, Elizabeth II learned to ride this way and did so trooping the colors from age 25 to 60--on a horse, that is. [Scares me even thinking of controlling a horse in this position!]
[Squatting atop the board, as some recent arrivals from countries using hole-in-the-floor sanitation, do from long experience, won't help. (Some hoteliers post signs asking patrons not to stand on the board, and not to bathe outside the tub, as NY bathrooms seldom have a drain in the middle of the floor.)]

Posted by Ray Bernardi (Member # 1615) on 05-05-2003, 07:44 AM:

I'd move the loo. Try to remember, you're doing this for people who actually give a [bs]

Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 05-05-2003, 05:53 PM:

Randy:

You may as well give in and either move the toilet or remove the wall.

I got lucky in my house. I was able to move the waste pipe (such nice clean words) 7" to the left and center it perfectly between the wall and the bathtub. I extended it with the neoprene boot and PVC. I also got to REPLACE the entire floor in the bathroom, too. Glad I decided to go ahead and do all of this stuff. If I'd waited much longer, I think someone would have stepped through the floor eventually.
(Vintage 1923 wood house.)

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 05-05-2003, 08:37 PM:

Hey! Thanks, all!

I've got somebody coming over to look at the situation and give an approximate price on the move. I think MY mind's made up... It stays put. However, as you all know, it's still up in the air until somebody ELSE decides. [Wink]

One thing, I would have SWORN there would be more potty jokes... Especially from the likes of Bruce and Paul, et. al.

[Big Grin]

Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 05-05-2003, 10:42 PM:

Better start swearing. I couldn't think of a thing to say here.

We all know WHO will make this big decision. You'd better get your plumbing tools ready. [evil]

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 05-05-2003, 10:49 PM:

Randy, Just keep the following in mind and you will NEVER go wrong....

>>> Phil

Posted by Rachel Gilardi (Member # 1016) on 05-06-2003, 10:17 AM:

Phils got it right! [Smile]

Posted by Gracia L. Babbidge (Member # 582) on 05-06-2003, 01:13 PM:

Heels are fun once in a while [evil]

- but not all the time! [Wink]

I myself am a fiend for birkensotcks! [Big Grin]

So comfortable...

...Well, my toes don't like being squished! [Razz]

Posted by Rachel Gilardi (Member # 1016) on 05-06-2003, 05:08 PM:

You don't understand Gracia. Those heels are an imprint of Phil's shoes... [evil]

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 05-06-2003, 05:30 PM:

True Rach... but ONLY every-other Thursday evening ...During Lent. [Razz]

>>> Phil

Posted by Bob Maar (Member # 763) on 05-06-2003, 08:55 PM:

So Randy...in the interest of "peace" if that what she wants
.....Then that's what you do. Believe me it is worth a GRANDand consider yourself ahaead of the game. What the hell, it's only money.

Tell her you will do it. Tell her you love her, Buy her flowers and your life will be transformed

Oh Yes...smile..

Posted by Rachel Gilardi (Member # 1016) on 05-06-2003, 09:49 PM:

Damn, Bob's wife is lucky!

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 05-07-2003, 09:45 AM:

quote:

Bob Maar: Tell her you love her, Buy her flowers and your life will be transformed.

Bob,

I believe the word for that is, "Drachefutter".

[Big Grin]

[ 05-07-2003, 12:17 PM: Message edited by: Randy Stankey ]

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 05-08-2003, 03:18 AM:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bob Maar: Tell her you love her, Buy her flowers and your life will be transformed.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. Maar: Pardon me while I go thow-up! That is sooooo sappy that I want to BARF!

It sounds like you are paying a tribute to your pet dog!

Geeeze! Show some respect for the "other" sex! It's all about power! (AND who's on top!)

OBTW: You are behind 2 months in my support payments...Please send me your check for $12,000.00 ...Thanks Dad!

>>> Phil

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 05-08-2003, 03:24 AM:

quote:
I believe the word for that is, "Drachefutter".

Actually more correctly "Drachenfutter" = dragon fodder. Except for maybe if it is an Yiddish expression. German and Yiddish are very similar, but there are some differences in grammer and spelling.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-08-2003, 03:27 AM:

Randy, have you tried taking away your wife's binkie? The binkie or the toilet moved 6 inches, one or the other but not both. I'll bet if Rachel was in that position she would go with the binkie! [Razz]

Posted by Don Bruechert (Member # 1538) on 05-08-2003, 08:33 AM:

Hmmmm.... Depends on the exact position Rachel is in, and what the binkie looks like I would imagine!! We were just at the binkie store the other night, and you would be amazed at the selection!

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 05-08-2003, 08:43 AM:

I think you're right, Michael. It's a slang word that means, "Something you give your wife so she won't get mad."

For instance, if you come home late for dinner and you know she's going to yell, "I slaved over a hot stove...", so you make a quick detour to the florist shop and bring your wife some flowers.

My understanding of the literal translation is, "Food for the dragon", so when you say, "Dragon fodder" it sounds like we're on the same track. The person who told me what "Drachenfutter" means was an elder relative. (Uncle) It may very well be a Yiddish word.

Brad, She doesn't have a binky but she does have a shotgun! [Big Grin]

Posted by Rachel Gilardi (Member # 1016) on 05-08-2003, 11:17 AM:

Don: Are you referring to the porn shop? [Big Grin]

Brad: !!! GET RID OF THE DARN BINKIE!

Randy: If she has a shotgun...I think that makes your decision THAT much easier--a woman and a shotgun don't equal anything good.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 05-08-2003, 11:19 AM:

Brad: Leave the Binkie... I like it. [Razz]

>>> Phil

Posted by Don Bruechert (Member # 1538) on 05-08-2003, 11:19 AM:

Well... there WERE lots of things there you could use as a binkie, right?? [Smile]

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-08-2003, 01:41 PM:

Has anyone else noticed Rachel seems to be having trouble getting air with the binkie? Her arms look ok, but she seems to be losing oxygen from her head.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 05-08-2003, 01:43 PM:

...and what are those "bubbles" from... gas?

>>> Phil

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-08-2003, 02:50 PM:

quote:
...and what are those "bubbles" from... gas?

http://www.mybonbon.com/bubbles_forever.htm

Posted by Rachel Gilardi (Member # 1016) on 05-08-2003, 07:04 PM:

Do I HAVE to be the butt of all the jokes? DAMN! [sex]

you all! In a thread about a toilet no less... [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-08-2003, 07:09 PM:

You are the one using the word "butt" on the toilet thread!

Posted by Rachel Gilardi (Member # 1016) on 05-08-2003, 11:07 PM:

Like that wasn't intended...DUR! [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Gracia L. Babbidge (Member # 582) on 05-08-2003, 11:35 PM:

[Roll Eyes]

So much silliness...

[Big Grin]

Posted by Don Bruechert (Member # 1538) on 05-09-2003, 12:04 AM:

So little time!

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 05-09-2003, 12:54 AM:

So Rachel, how 'bout them bubbles, huh?

>>> Phil

Posted by Rachel Gilardi (Member # 1016) on 05-09-2003, 11:03 AM:

Ask Don, its his fault! [Wink]

Posted by Don Bruechert (Member # 1538) on 05-09-2003, 11:35 AM:

You wouldn't know about the bubbles... you haven't been in a tub with me ... yet...

Posted by Rachel Gilardi (Member # 1016) on 05-09-2003, 11:37 AM:

OMG, you are NOT going there!

Posted by Don Bruechert (Member # 1538) on 05-09-2003, 11:40 AM:

Actually, that's true... you are coming here!!

bubble bubble toil and trouble.....

Actually, I was thinking of naming my binkie "bubbles"... then I could go around asking people if they would like to blow bubbles....

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 05-09-2003, 12:06 PM:

Yes, Randy Drache=dragon, Futter=fodder. I found the word very interesting since it is very clear from the words and the spelling that it comes from German, but I have never heard someone use it. I have never met anybody who spoke authentic Yiddish, but I have seen some very interesting old movies in the language.
These were American productions from the 30s made for Jewish immigrants from Eastern Europe. They preserve some of the old "shtetl" world which has been destroyed by the anti-semitic excesses of that time.
Still, there are many Yiddish words and expressions in modern German, especially in the Berlin dialect. For instance, Schlamassel, Kittchen, Ganove, kaputt.

Posted by Don Bruechert (Member # 1538) on 05-09-2003, 01:11 PM:

Kaputt... I know that word... I think it describes my brain at times... (but only when I'm not with Rachel).

By the way... Everyone should be sure to get their cheese orders into Rachel early, so she can keep up with the demand!!

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 05-10-2003, 10:26 AM:

Well, then, there we have it... Because the same person who told me about drachenfutter also told me about "schlamassel" and of course the opposite of schlamassel, "schlameil".

There is also the ever popular "schmuck" which does NOT mean simply, "a stupid, disagreeable person". It actually has a very colorful, yet truly VILE meaning!

From there, I would put it together and make the assumption that drachenfutter is more a Yiddish word than a German word. Owing to the fact that there were many people who were German who also spoke Yiddish I can imagine where it would be easy to confuse the two languages.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 05-13-2003, 05:19 AM:

So Randy, what's the verdict on the crapper?

>>> Phil

Posted by Don Bruechert (Member # 1538) on 05-13-2003, 08:24 AM:

Yeah! Did you decide to shit, or get off the pot??

Posted by Gerard S. Cohen (Member # 994) on 05-13-2003, 07:57 PM:

For Randy, Michael et al:

As they used to say in the garment industry,
"DRESS BRITISH and SPEAK YIDDISH."

Here's a way to keep your terms straight:
The waiter who spills the soup on a patron, is a SHLEMIEL.
The diner who gets drenched is a SHLIMAZEL.
The idiot busboy who just stands and laughs is a SHMENDRICK.

[shlimazel=dark (bad)+ luck]
"shmuck" is from German and originally meand "jewel" or "little decoration", but when used for the male member is a strong pejorative, very insulting to the person being described.

There are Yiddish glossaries on the Internet. The books of the late Leo Rosten, beginning with "The Joys of Yiddish" are enjoyable introductions to this most colorful language, which infuses the speech of all New Yorkers, because of the influence of the garment trade, Catskill and TV standup commedians, and newspaper columnists.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 05-13-2003, 10:34 PM:

If you are a boy and you are Jewish, eight days after you are born, a Moehl will come and perform a Bris on you. The piece that's left over is the schmuck.

If you don't have a bris, you might get schmegme. If you don't wash your schwantz to get rid of the schmegme, you might get a putz.

That's about the least disgusting way I can say it.

[Eek!]

Now, about that toilet...

Last Friday evening, my stepfather (a general contractor for 30 years) came over to the house to give his opinion. As I said, the soil stack comes up from the basement to the second floor. With the help of my stepfather, we discovered that it comes up into the attic about 4 feet outside the bathroom. It comes up between the joists in the attic and hits a 90 deg. elbow then heads horizontally toward the bathroom. It runs orthogonally to the joists, under the bathroom wall then over to the toilet. Directly under the toilet, it takes another 90 deg. bend and comes out at the floor flange.

Theoretically, one might be able to cut the cast iron pipe off under the floorboards, use a Neoprene sleeve to add on a piece of PVC pipe and extend the reach of the soil pipe. NOPE! Can't do that. Since the pipe comes into the room at an angle, extending it would move the commode toward the back wall as well as moving it to the side.

If you wanted to do this project, the soil pipe would have to be cut off in the basement and a new pipe would have to be put in, all the way up to the second floor. THEN every single joist between the vertical section and the floor flange would have to be cut to make a "notch" for the pipe to go through, under the floor.

That didn't really impress her very much. For some reason she didn't get the idea what a difficult and "ICKY" job this would be. I talked her into letting me take the toilet off the floor and looking at the soil pipe from that view. I disconnected the water line, bailed out the water and took the toilet out.

This is where the beautiful part happens!...

She came into the bathroom, took one look down the "shit hole" and suddenly her whole attitude about the project changed. There's nothing that'll change your wife's mind faster than looking down a stinky, filthy sewer so that she can realize what a stinky, filthy and EXPENSIVE job it would be to move the toilet.

Long story short... The bathroom is finally just about finished! I overlaid the old (asbestos?) floor tiles with a sheet of 1/4 inch "BC" grade plywood and used drywall screws to fasten it down every six inches. (Every three inches at the edges and near the seams.) We sealed the plywood with a liquid latex floor sealer and put down some nice self-adhesve vinyl tiles. (Faux green malachite pattern.) All we need to do now is put some cove molding down around the edges. I'm advocating 1/4 round. She's "thinking about it". [Wink]

We do this, touch up the scuffs in the paint I made when putting the plywood down and we're DONE! [beer]

About that asbestos...
Yes, I think the old tiles are asbestos. I'm not going to spend the time or the trouble to find out for sure. Some things it's better not to know. 90% of the tiles are still in place and are undisturbed. There were a few of them that were loose. Those we discarded by taking them to an asbestos approved landfill. [Wink]

Then we put some latex floor leveling compound over the spots where the tiles were missing to fill in the gaps and to seal any other loose ones down (that we didn't catch). The plywood went down over the top of that.

As long as the tiles underneath the plywood stay intact and remain undisturbed they can remain there, virtually forever, without posing a hazard. The REAL hazard comes when you try to remove the tiles! This way, they are hermetically sealed in there forever... or at least until the house is gone, at which point those tiles will probably STILL be there! [Big Grin]

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 05-13-2003, 10:41 PM:

That's all very interesting... BUT the bottom-line question is "Did you move the toilet"?

>>> Phil

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 05-14-2003, 01:43 AM:

Randy said:

quote:
As I said, the soil stack comes up...

Randy, I presume the "soil stack" is the same as the "shitter pipe".....?

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 05-14-2003, 08:39 AM:

"soil stack" = shit pipe

The toilet stayed put. [Smile]

Posted by John Schulien (Member # 215) on 05-16-2003, 04:03 PM:

So in other words, the solution was for her to imagine where she wanted to sit, then move her butt six inches to the left. [Big Grin]

Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 05-16-2003, 07:52 PM:

Wasn't it Mel Gibson, who had some toilet trouble once ?
Bummmm, it said [Big Grin]