Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Need a New Monitor for the ol' Computer.

This is topic Need a New Monitor for the ol' Computer. in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 05-16-2003, 02:32 AM:

For the longest time I've been using CRT based monitors for my many computing needs. But it is getting old and I need a new monitor. A few weeks ago I purchased a Sony LCD flatscreen monitor. It cost $600. I did not like how the cursor blurred as I moved it around onscreen. Unacceptable. Also the colors were not 100% accurate. Some reds appeared as greens on screens which I knew what they were supposed to look like, despite creating a new color profile. The monitor promply went back and I got a refund.

Can anyone recommend an awesome monitor, CRT or other, for mission critical work? I have a very recent Mac and it has digital out (DVI, I think) and can also do VGA. Motion blur and the potential for dead pixels are unacceptable. I cannot wait for a diode to update. It must be immediate. The colors must also be perfect. Sounds like CRT would probably win out here.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 05-16-2003, 02:56 AM:

NEC makes the best looking LCD displays I have seen. They're not cheap though. Actually, their CRT displays kick too.

http://www.necmitsubishi.com/products/home/nec_index.cfm

My NEC MutliSync LCD display has better colour and sharpness than most any CRT display. Full screen, full motion video looks great. One nice thing about the NEC displays is XtraView 160 degree viewing.

The downside with all LCD displays is that image quality dramatically falls off when you don't run the display at it's native resolution, which is usually 1280x1024.

Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 05-16-2003, 03:41 AM:

I've been quite pleased with the two Viewsonic 19" monitors I've had since 1999. They've both made it through three moves and still perform great. My only complaint is the size and weight, as they're CRTs.

Posted by Ron Lacheur (Member # 1126) on 05-16-2003, 04:05 AM:

I'm with Adam. Viewsonic all the way.

Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 05-16-2003, 07:46 AM:

I highly recomend Samsung LCD monitors. They look better than others costing twice as much.

/Mitchell

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-16-2003, 08:35 AM:

I have a Phillips LCD monitor and have had it for a number of years. Got it at Costco, I believe I paid 349.00 for it. No complaints here about it.....and I do ALOT of photographic work on it and have yet to see any colors reproduced wrong. My favorite old CRT monitor was a NEC Multistink 4fge. Hey, don't you know by now that Sony is just bloney!!!!
Mark

Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 05-16-2003, 09:22 AM:

Mark is right. The only thing good about Sony anymore is that Trinitron tube. Hope they have not found a way to screw it up, too.

Joe, are you looking at images of yourself again? That would explain the color shifts... [Roll Eyes]

The image on the left should look fantastic. If it does not, replace the monitor. Then replace the phone line / cable modem / T-1... [eyes]

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 05-16-2003, 09:25 AM:

OK, you found out why graphics houses don't have LCD monitors!
Viewsonic has a good reputation for CRT displays. The difference is in the electronics, there are very few companies actually making CRTs so in a given price range they'll all be very similar and probably come out the same factory door.
There are 2 types of CRT, shadow mask and "trinitron" wire aperture. Wire aperture types always have a few thin dark horizontal lines visible in bright images but the overall image quality is better than shadow mask IMO. The lines are rarely visible and don't bother me.
I'd suggest getting a used monitor. The market is flooded with them, and by shopping around you can get a top-of-line 19" model for under $200.00 and 21" for not much more. Generally used are rated, "A" is hard to find (case unmarked, looks new) but "B" are excellent, usually they just have some marks and scratches on the case but the electronics and tube are 100% OK. Since almost forever, screen savers etc have reduced tube burn and the larger monitors will not have been used in POS or equivalent tasks where the image is constant and burnt screens common.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 05-16-2003, 09:57 AM:

Who makes Viewsonic? Or is that the actual brand? It sounds like it should be "The fabulous Hitachi Viewsonic" or something. Any recommended online dealers for these things... or locals? I know that Newegg.com does not seem to carry monitors.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-16-2003, 10:46 AM:

Viewsonic monitors:

http://www.superwarehouse.com/cb2.cfm?ViewSonic&crt_monitor&b=281&c=1875

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/browse/-/1071708/104-7600389-9342309

http://www.price.com/computing/drill.html?epg=3011&tci=2971

http://www.monitorwarehouse.com/

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 05-16-2003, 11:16 AM:

I used to think Viewsonic was part of NEC but I'm not positive. Anyway, where I used to work, we tried all different brands of CRT-based monitors. We had a lot of picky graphics artists to please, plus people tended to leave their monitors on 24/7. Viewsonic was the hands-down winner for most bang for the buck and also longevity/reliability.

I personally own a Hitachi 19" (CRT) which I've been VERY happy with.

LCD displays keep getting better, but they're still unacceptable for graphics artists (IMHO).

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 05-16-2003, 11:52 AM:

Viewsonic is a privately held company. They've been in business since 1987. There have been a few times in the past where they were using some NEC CRTs because they couldn't keep up with demand.

I've also got a 19" Viewsoinc that looks great.

Mitchell, I also have a 17" Samsung LCD... I use it as a paperweight. Compared to the NEC display it looks like [bs]

Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 05-16-2003, 01:23 PM:

We've got a Viewsonic 17" or maybe a little-bit bigger LCD monitor here at the office. When we first got it, it was great, but we have been noticing that over time the edges of the picture are getting darker and darker. No amount of image adjustment will make it go away.

It's really a great monitor... with the exception of that one flaw.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 05-16-2003, 01:54 PM:

NEC LCD 1830 running 1280x1024 res.

The display card is just as important as the monitor. ASUS 8460 Ultra with the GeForce4 Ultra chipset on the AGP 4X bus. 65Meg of DDR SDRAM.

Both about 2 years old and I love 'em. No screen lag. Great performance on games, DVD movies, Photoshop, and Premier...oh, and text. [Big Grin]

>>> Phil

Posted by Mike Olpin (Member # 1115) on 05-16-2003, 02:21 PM:

How about plunking down a couple grand for the sexy new Apple Cinema Display 23 HD?

[Cool]

Posted by Matt Hale (Member # 1518) on 05-16-2003, 02:31 PM:

If you are looking for a ViewSonic, look for an equivalent Optiquest instead. Optiquest is owned by ViewSonic and is their OEM brand. Same models, same factory, same company, different sticker, lower price. Sometimes it takes a while for the new, very high-end ViewSonics to appear in the Optiquest line, but they all do. I used to sell them in past life, in fact I'm using an Optiquest V95 right now.

edit: woo-hoo! 50th post!

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 05-16-2003, 04:45 PM:

My problem with the Viewsonics is what appears to be a ridiculously low refresh rate. I want to run 1280x1024, but am limited to 66Hz? That, my friends, is absolutely pathetic. The bigger models go higher than that, but they are just too damn big. 17" would be the max I could have... actually it would be perfect.

The one good thing about LCDs is that you can have the refresh rate at 60hz or 600Hz and there will be absolutely no onscreen difference.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 05-16-2003, 05:02 PM:

Joe, My refresh rate is 120Hz. The NEC model I have is no longer available...there is a new version.

My setup is also great for 3D with LCD glasses. [beer]

>>> Phil

Posted by Matt Hale (Member # 1518) on 05-16-2003, 05:35 PM:

I have not seen a 17" monitor of any brand made in the last 10 years that couldnt do 1024x768 @ 75Hz at least, and the vast majority will do 85Hz or better. How old is the video card you are using? If its ancient that could be one explanation, or if its not the driver might not be installed properly, or you are using the wrong driver. 66Hz is pathetic.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 05-16-2003, 05:39 PM:

No I am looking at the specs for the monitors themselves online. They say things like "1280 x 1024 @ 66Hz max resolution" etc. I know the refresh rate would go up if I used 1024 x 768 like I am using now, but I would really appreciate the larger screen real estate. My video card is quite recent. My Mac is less than 6 months old.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 05-16-2003, 05:45 PM:

Do NOT go with the Optiquest brand. Not if you are doing "mission critical" work where color is important. The Optiquest line is comparable to Viewsonic's lower end series of "value" monitors. You're not getting any representation of the Professional series of CRTs.

I've been using the same Viewsonic P815 21" monitor for my home system for about five years now and it still runs great. The monitor is one heavy SOB though! It weighs nearly 80 pounds! I had to buy a $700 AnthroCart desk 36" deep to hold it and a 12" X 12" graphics tablet. The monitor has the previously mentioned wire aperture type screen and a top resolution of 1800 X 1440. The monitor's refresh rate at 1600 X 1200 is 91Hz. Of course, I paid over $1300 for this thing when it was new. Unlike newer CRTs, this monitor features two series of ports. You have the standard computer port. But then Port B is a series of five separate component jacks (separate jacks for Red, Green, Blue, H-Sync and V-Sync; along with a jack that looks like an ethernet port). Viewsonic models that have replaced the P815 feature screen resolutions up to 2048 X 1536.

LCD screens are still slow and not fully accurate for color sensitive work. If I were working for a photo archiving company or some other place where color control was absolutely critical, I would probably spend extra for a higher end monitor from Barco, Radius or Lacie. Many top end CRT monitors will come with a colorimeter included to adjust gamma and make Colorsync and/or ICC profiles. Sony makes a really cool 24" 16X9 widescreen CRT. I think you can buy that one for under $2,000.

Speaking of monitors that have dropped under the $2,000 level, Apple's Studio Cinema Display (a 23" LCD flat screen with 1920 X 1200 rez) is available for $1,999. That's $1,500 less that what it cost just a few months ago.

If cost is no object, you could spend $8,000 for that 9.2 megapixel LCD monitor offered by Viewsonic. [evil]

Still, LCD screens are primarily good for solving desk space problems. For industrial level computing (graphics, CAD, video, photo retouching, etc.), you're better off with a CRT.

Posted by Matt Hale (Member # 1518) on 05-16-2003, 05:49 PM:

Oops. I read that wrong. I thought you said "1024 x 768 @ 66Hz" not 1280 x 1024. Most of your cheaper 17" monitors will only do 66Hz at that res.
My Optiquest V95 is currently doing 1280x1024 @ 85Hz and yes, its on a Mac, but I think its a 19". I remember last year LG was making some nice little 17" units that could do up to 120Hz refresh. They were a Flatron flat-faced tube, which is not quite a trinitron but is very close and a heckuva lot less dough. LGs are not nearly as crappy as they used to be either.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-16-2003, 08:43 PM:

No Thanks! Every Apple has a worm in it!
Mark

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-16-2003, 11:20 PM:

Coming soon from Kodak and its partners, Organic Light Emitting Diode (OLED) displays:

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/corp/display/index.jhtml

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/corp/display/cbitChip2003.jhtml

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/corp/display/kodakAndOEL.jhtml

OLED Color and Luminance

Coming soon to a monitor near you. [Cool]

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 05-16-2003, 11:30 PM:

While the OLED appears to be a good idea on the surface, time will tell how it performs over time.

I AWAYS get a little nervous when I see the word "Organic". That implies a finite life much shorter than is useful.

>>> Phil

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 05-16-2003, 11:46 PM:

I am sitting in front of a Samsung Syncmaster 700p right now. It will stay behind when I move to the New World (too heavy, 230VAC). I have always been very happy with Samsung monitors. They also have a good warranty standard. I assume that it will be the same in the US as here. They pick up defect monitors at your home and provide you with another one.
I had never fail one on me though. But a friend of mine had, and he was very happy with their service. I think the warranty is 3 years.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 05-17-2003, 02:29 AM:

Michael...WE don't care....

>>> Phil

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 05-17-2003, 02:31 AM:

Michael is moving to the US? Crap. I'm moving to Germany.

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 05-17-2003, 07:05 AM:

I forgot to mention that in addition to the good service, Samsung monitors also have a very good image quality and can easily be run at high referesh rates.

Yes Joe, I am moving to San Diego next week. Sorry. Maybe I should open a new topic to warn people that I am coming next week. That would give them at least a fair chance.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-17-2003, 02:09 PM:

Texas and other states are going to get awful crowded over the next few months! [Razz]

Michael, will you be coming to our little gathering the first of next month?

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 05-17-2003, 09:09 PM:

I would like to come and drink all the booze like last time. But maybe I won`t have time since I will be very busy after I have arrived. But maybe I will come for 1-2 days. Although it is not very likely - that means all the members who want to come shouldn`t cancel their trips yet.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-19-2003, 09:36 AM:

quote:
I AWAYS get a little nervous when I see the word "Organic". That implies a finite life much shorter than is useful.

Organic compounds can have very long life. Life testing is certainly part of the Kodak OLED development program:

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/corp/researchDevelopment/technologyFeatures/display.shtml