Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Runaway boxcars in LA?

This is topic Runaway boxcars in LA? in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=002169

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 06-22-2003, 06:53 PM:

Hmmmm. Maybe you railroad buffs can answer that one. I thought that if you dump air pressure on the boxcars, the brakes are supposed to apply. I wonder who screwed up? Triple Valve malfunction maybe? What happened when the brake hose was separated?

In case some of you are wondering what the "Triple Valve" is, it is also known as an AB, ABD, or ABDW valve. Here is their purpose in life:

AB Valve
The operating device used on freight cars for charging, applying, and releasing the brakes. Also called a triple valve.

ABD Valve
An improvement of the AB Valve that features a quick release.

ABDW Valve
An improvement of the ABD Valve. Modifies the Emergency Portion and provides for accelerated buildup of brake cylinder pressure during quick service applications.

Maybe I need to go to school here....but if you dump the pressure in the brakes of a locomotive, the brakes release. If you dump the pressure in the train brakes, the brakes apply. Am I missing something?

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 06-22-2003, 07:35 PM:

There's a big wheel thingy on the cars I've seen, that's either a brake release or a manual brake - and I expect the brake system to be a failsafe "pressurize to release" system.
The cars have to be able to run free, trains are often assembled at a hump yard for example. (A hump yard has a switch tree leading to several sidings, trains for different destinations are assembled on the sidings. The incoming cars are pushed up a small hill (the hump) uncoupled and allowed to roll free down it. The switch tree is set to route each car to the correct siding/train)
maybe someone forgot to set the brakes back on after humping?

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 06-22-2003, 07:39 PM:

Yes, David - I am aware of that brake wheel.

I don't know if there was any humping in this issue. The news report didn't say anything about that. I am more inclined to believe that someone was scratching their butt or their buddy's butt instead of paying attention to insignificant minor details.

Unless it was an actual equipment failure, I'll bet when the investigation is over the conclusion will probably result in someone standing in the unemployment line scratching their butt waiting for a handout. [Big Grin]

Posted by Gordon Bachlund (Member # 124) on 06-22-2003, 07:47 PM:

Paul, a few local pundits have theorized that the crew might have "bottled the air" on the cut of cars to save the time that would have been required to re-charge the brakes if they had "big holed" the cut. The real story will come out of the NTSB investigation, and it will be interesting to see what did happen.

One thing is certain, centralized dispatching saves operating funds, but at the expense of a local dispatcher who might have reacted faster.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 06-22-2003, 07:51 PM:

Gordon:

Ah, shit! Someone will definately walk the unemployment line over this one if it turns out to be true!....and it will probably be some guy or gal that was trying to do his or her job the way it should be done.

I hate this "save time" crap. It leads to stupid senseless tragic accidents in just about any industry that one can imagine.

That's like "bottling a fart" to be used later to stink up a formal gathering, such as church or something like that. Never fart in church. The pews have a good resonant frequency......We did that, then turn around and stare down that "little old lady" behind us.... [evil]

Anyway, I read the "cut" was running at about 70mph when it derailed. That is really, shall I say, moving right along? [Big Grin]

I am glad nobody was seriously hurt in this accident. [Smile]

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 06-22-2003, 08:39 PM:

Apparently these runaway cars would have gone straight to downtown LA if they hadn't been derailed where they were. Oh yeah, if this is someone taking shortcuts, there's gonna be hell to pay when the investigation is over.

Posted by Andrew Duggan (Member # 1302) on 06-22-2003, 08:48 PM:

I've only read one small report on this incident, so I don't know much in the way of details, but I do know that the line in question is fairly popular with train hoppers and modern "hobos". Though I'd like to think anybody hopping a train would be smart enough not to jump into a boxcar filled with lumber, people continue to amaze me in ways like that. Fingers crossed that no "hoppers" met an unpleasant fate out there...

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-22-2003, 08:50 PM:

Ahhhh, and they didn't even try to plop someone on top via a helicoptor to work the wheel brakes..............ars a shame. Really too bad it didn't make it to downtown L.A. as that would've meant some cleanup work, and downtown L.A. can always stand a bit of that.
Mark

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 06-22-2003, 08:56 PM:

Mark, you got that right! Of all the times I was in LA, my opinion has not changed. That city needs an enema - big time!

Also, to plop someone on the cars via a hoppityclopter is something you see only in the movies...They got 2 hours to do that. In real life, they had only 15 minutes...Charlton Heston comes to mind..... [Big Grin]

Posted by Aldo Baez (Member # 790) on 06-22-2003, 10:36 PM:

There was a big article about this in the L.A. Times today, apparently they were in the railyard and took off the brakes since they were moving the cars around to different locations. The front of the train and the back of the train had a miscommunication (or no communication at all) and somehow they just started rolling. There was some charges from the city of not redirecting the cars to Santa Fe Springs, which is a highly industrial area and hardly any people live near the train unlike Commerce where it crashed, but at least the rail company is going to pay for the repairs and rebuilding of the homes.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 06-23-2003, 02:13 AM:

Dave wrote:

quote:

The cars have to be able to run free, trains are often assembled at a hump yard for example

Do you still have hump yards over there? They went out of use here years ago. (About 20?)

We have little freight anyway, the railways are mainly a passenger operation, what there is, apart from containers is virtually all bulk trainloads, oil, stone, power station coal, that sort of thing, so there is very little shunting anyway. Of course, the distances here are much less, so the freight tends to go by road.

We have quite a mixture of brakes; until the grouping, in 1923, most companies used vacuum, but a minority used air, after the grouping the 'big four' (Great Western, Southern, London Midland and Scottish and London and North Eastern) that were formed all opted for vacuum, but a few odd lines, Isle of Wight, and some local services to the North East of London remained air.

At nationalisation in 1948, British Railways decided to stay with vacuuum, but in 1967, as steam was ending, changed their mind, and went for air; It has taken from then until just about now to complete the changeover, I'm not sure if there is any vacuum on the main line now, there was a year or so ago.

Most of the early air brakes were single pipe, but the post 1967 BR ones were two pipe, on passenger and freight, but in more recent times new freight wagons have been built for single pipe, and the main res. pipes have been removed from most of the older ones; I don't know why.

Our 1950s Diesel railcars, the last few vehicles of which will be withdrawn this year, were a two pipe vacuum system, but electric units were air, there have been almost no electric multiple units, of any vintage, with vacuum. From the 1950s new electric units had electro-pneumatic brakes, but retained the air train pipe as a safety system, but since about the mid '70s most new ones have used 'Westcode' type brakes, with all application and release being controlled electrically, and the only air connection being a main res. pipe, which is usually carried by the auto-coupler; there are no hoses to couple.

Most of our air brakes use distributers, which allow a graduated release, rather than triple valves.

Posted by Dick Vaughan (Member # 540) on 06-23-2003, 02:33 AM:

Stephen

Didn't they just change the name of the UK rail freight operation to Connex? [Confused]

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-23-2003, 08:22 AM:

Yea, we still have "hump yards" over here in alot of the freight yards probaby since things are the other way around in the States with freight being king of the rail and passenger service(if ya want to call it that) hanging on by just a thread.

Dick....CONNEX...that sounds like the name of a train line that was used in a famouns John Candy movie.....or are they related to Comcast who is my cable TV supplier?
Mark

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 06-23-2003, 09:35 AM:

About a year ago, Rochester had a runaway train, evidently caused by the conductor's error in not properly setting the brakes:

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/news/extra/csx/0216story.shtml