Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Went Antique Hunting Today, And This Is What I Came Up With.

This is topic Went Antique Hunting Today, And This Is What I Came Up With. in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=002196

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 06-29-2003, 04:17 PM:

This is what I came up with. It is an old TRF receiver that bears the "Washington" name. First one like this I ever saw.

What made it kind of funny to buy is that a very good friend of mine owned it, and was not too eager to sell it. I waved a $100 bill in his face like someone waving it in Jack Benny's face. The owner of the radio succumbed.... [evil]

Anyway, I don't know how old it is. But for it's age, it is in excellent condition and is a great restoration project. Has anyone seen one of these?

I hope I can find some data on it. Here are some pictures.

The following is a picture of the front end tuning coil.

I wonder what year this thing was made, and what this radio is actually worth. Any ideas?

The pictures show the cover, etc. is warped. It isn't. It was that damned camera of mine.

[ 06-30-2003, 11:48 PM: Message edited by: Paul G. Thompson ]

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-29-2003, 05:05 PM:

Paul,
Check out these links. They may be of some assistance to you. I restore old TV's as you know and they have helped me out with that a few times.
Mark

http://www.allthingsradio.com/

http://classicradiogallery.com/links_coll.html

http://www.nostalgiaair.org/NostalgiaAir/Forums/TechForum/Messages/106/M0022106.htm

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 06-29-2003, 05:52 PM:

Paul, the radio is called "Washington" because it was manufactured by George Washington`s own company. Every true American patriot should have one. It is worth approximately $25.000, if it has the serial sticker on the back which has Washington`s signature on it, you can easily demand twice that much.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-29-2003, 06:54 PM:

Of course...silly me is looking at the Altec speakers right behind the radio...Model 310s?

Steve

PS...for a Washington...you should have only paid a dollar...for a $100...I would have held out for a Franklin! [Wink]

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 06-29-2003, 07:27 PM:

Steve, you can spot an Altec 1 million miles away. [Smile]

And, yes...I did exchange a "Franklin" for a "Washington" [Big Grin]

Just a follow-up...I received some info just a few minutes ago that the "Washington" brand was somehow associated with Crosley Radio Corporation. This radio was typical of the era from about 1920 to 1930. However, my radio has not yet been positively identified.

[ 06-29-2003, 11:34 PM: Message edited by: Paul G. Thompson ]

Posted by Michael West (Member # 428) on 06-30-2003, 12:08 AM:

paul
wow - radio is really nice i am trying to get into restoring old tube radios, i too have an old one (given to me on me 40th birthday). when i find have the time.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 06-30-2003, 12:21 AM:

Michael, got a picture of yours?

Oh, by the way....the ex-owner of my radio has a Western Electric 540-AW speaker. It is damaged, but I saw a link on the internet that someone had a new one, and sold it for $525 bucks! I found one that was restored - for a price of about $325. It looks like a circular hunk of cardboard. Here is a picture of it:

The one my friend has was manufactured on January 18, 1921.

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 06-30-2003, 05:46 AM:

quote:
sold it for $525 bucks

That is exactly the sum dts will give you if you trade in a dts-6! But only if you buy an XD-10. You could invest that money in one of those speakers then.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 06-30-2003, 12:24 PM:

This is probably the best info I can find right now. A gentleman that restores radios sent me this:

This is a home built superheterodyne. Judging from the Oscillator coupling coil which appears to have been manufactured by Remler, I'd say there is probably 4 Remler IF transformers mounted under the subpanel. The tuning condensers, of course, were manufactured by Remler, but they were standard over the counter parts that were used in many different homebrew sets during the mid 20's. Since it has a name on the front panel, it was probably a Remler kit that was put together by a vendor and sold under the Washington name. Probably in about 1926.

The cabinet is one of the nicer types that was sold to home builders. As a general rule, the cabinet maker has their name on it somewhere. I doubt if it was included with the kit, since most were sold without one. Many builders did not buy one, but fortunately yours was preserved in a cabinet.

Posted by Dick Prather (Member # 1136) on 06-30-2003, 03:07 PM:

Paul,
I looked in a couple of books I have which list hundreds of models and found nothing using the Washington name. It does look nice though.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 06-30-2003, 03:35 PM:

Found something: Very similar to mine. [Smile]

Info:

HI-MU Radio Labs, Los Angeles - HI- MU

Many small Los Angeles companies were building and selling radios in the twenties. HI-MU Radio Labs is an unknown company that probably only built a handful of radios. "Built by William Ferringer" is engraved on the front panel but it is unknown what position Ferringer held at HI-MU (maybe he was the only "employee.") This particular HI-MU is serial number 91 but that figure cannot reliably be used as a reference for the quantity actually built. The circuit is unusual in that only four tubes are used in such a physically large radio. An RF Amplifier, a Regenerative Detector and two Audio Amplifiers. The AF Amps use ballast resistors to automatically control filament voltage while the meter can be switched to monitor RF Amp or Detector voltage. Remler tuning condensers are used along with Remler dials. Probably dates from around 1925.

Posted by Dick Prather (Member # 1136) on 06-30-2003, 08:29 PM:

Paul,
I read the book "This Island Earth" years ago and part of the story took place in a radio assembly plant in Los Angeles. Their motto was "If It Picks Up KFI, Ship It". Just struck me funny.

Posted by Chris Markiewicz (Member # 1415) on 06-30-2003, 09:38 PM:

I was given this a number of years ago by a friend who had no room for it...

Physically it's in good shape, but it needs work to operate again. Mark, thanks for the antique radio links; I was able to find a schematic and with luck will be able to get this beauty working again.
Chris

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 06-30-2003, 10:14 PM:

Holy smokes, Chris....that old Atwater-Kent is a real beauty! Be proud of that one. Back in those days, "Quality goes in before the name goes on." Atwater-Kent has been notorius for superior quality and workmanship. That radio will probably fetch a very good price should you decide to "let 'er go" [Smile]

I bought an old Spartan today, too. Gotta pick it up tomorrow..It is a console, Spartan Model No. 127. It was manufactured somewhere between the years of 1931-1937. The cabinet is in almost perfect shape, but I don't know if it works or not. The power cord was quite rottin', so I elected NOT to plug it in.

But that's minor...I can fix that. [Smile]

When I get it home, I'll take a picture of it and post it. Also ran into an old Atwater-Kent Model #60 still in the optional floor mounted cabinet. Price is negotable, but it looks like the cabinet needs alot of work. I think I can get it for around 200 bucks.

Well, since I went ape shit today on antique hunts, here's something I also picked up. It is a model G500 Zenith Trans-Oceanic. It works! Was playing it a little while ago. Don't know if I got skunked or not, but I donated $130 of my coffee money. [Smile]

Here is a picture.

It is a 1948 model, and they were in production for three years. Zenith only built 88,000 of them. They are getting rare. Mine is in very good condition, with no "skinning" to speak of on the case, except for two real small spots. [Smile]

[ 06-30-2003, 11:53 PM: Message edited by: Paul G. Thompson ]

Posted by Josh Jones (Member # 447) on 07-01-2003, 12:40 AM:

Also notice that crazy neon green plasma disc in all your pictures [Wink]

I have yet to get around to rounding up the parts for my receiver project. I'm getting a new tuning knob and some cloth wire for the innards that have cracked. Beside an alignment, I think that will get it running again.

Also in my travels, We put a brand new studio on the air today. Made the cutover during a Minnesota Twins baseball game. We only lost about 4 seconds of audio.

Josh

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 07-01-2003, 01:10 AM:

Like I said on the phone, Josh....if for some reason you can't get to that project running before Christmas, we'll make it work somehow during that season. [Smile]

Congratulations on the changover. Four seconds is not bad at all. Usually, I jumper the old feed over the new, and then "punch it down" and remove the jumpers.

Minnesota Twins eat [bs]

...Go Mariners. Our motto is "Refuse To Win." [beer]

(actually, we have had a good season so far....) [Smile]

[ 07-01-2003, 10:46 PM: Message edited by: Paul G. Thompson ]

Posted by Chris Markiewicz (Member # 1415) on 07-01-2003, 02:15 PM:

Thanks, Paul. The Atwater-Kent's tubes still have the original paper warranty stickers on them, dated 1932!

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 07-01-2003, 04:23 PM:

I got my old Sparton 1271 home. As soon as I took it out of the back of my truck, I took a picture of it. I am quite proud of this one... [Smile]

It appears to be a 1939 model. I'm going to get a good quality furniture polish and polish this baby up. There is no restoration needed of any kind with the cabinet. [Smile]

I also picked up that old Atwater-Kent. I paid $125.00 for it, it was just too good a deal to pass up. The orginal price he wanted for it was $475.00, but it was in rough shape. I'll take some pictures of it later and post them. By looking at the chassis, I think this thing will run when I power it up. Electrically, it appears to be in excellent condition, including the speaker. No tears or rips in the cone!

Posted by Chris Markiewicz (Member # 1415) on 07-02-2003, 02:47 PM:

Here's my 1951 H500 Trans-Oceanic. The case is in poor condition, but it works perfectly. I did replace the power cord. It has all the original manuals, schematics and the adapters for the Wave Magnet AM antenna.

Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 07-02-2003, 05:20 PM:

I used to have a 600 series Trans-Oceanic in the mid 1970's. Sure wish I still had it! It was a great radio. Antique Electronics in Tempe, Arizona and a few individuals on the internet are reproducing some T-O parts now.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 07-02-2003, 06:13 PM:

Well, there was great success with the Sparton. I changed the rottin' power cord and fired 'er up. Immediate indications were the filters were shot. I replaced the filters, fixed a loose rubber grommet on the dial drive, changed out the light bulbs, and fired 'er up again. She runs like a top!

When I pulled the chassis out and looked it over, it still has most of the orginal "Sparton" trade-name tubes. As I looked over at the solder connections throughout the entire chassis, there has never been any repairs made to the radio that I can determine. Everything was orginal!

The only problem is the electric eye is dead. I'll just get another one.

The radio has not been powered up in years. It is running now, and I'll let 'er run and let the old parts stabilize.

Now I can listen to the Seattle Mariners on the radio while I am dorking around on the computer.

The short wave band even works.

Next project: The old Atwater-Kent TRF....

Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 07-02-2003, 06:44 PM:

Hey gang...

I am radio hunting also. I desperately want to get my hands on a 1938 RCA 816K. This was the top of the line RCA reciever for that year and had a hefty price tag. It had 16 tubes and 7 bands (.540 MHz - 22 MHz on 3 general coverage bands and 4 spread bands 19, 25, 31, 49 meters). Had electronic tuning w/presets, the "Majic Tuning Eye" a 12" dynamic speaker and butiful cabinet with burl-wood finish.

There was one at a local antique radio store that another collector got before I could, and a few I saw on E-Bay that winning bidder had to go and pick up.

Anyhow, if anyone knows of one for sale, please help me out! I want it...even if it is in bad condition...anything is restorable!

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 07-07-2003, 02:32 PM:

Just started working on my Atwater Kent. Aside from a No. 27 tube being dead, it has two burned out resistors. The maroon one and the yellow one. Back in those days, they color coded the resistors, but the color code has nothing to do with the electrical value. Weird.

See the pretty blue one on the right hand side? [Big Grin]

The maroon one and the yellow one are now white. You can spot them very easily near the bottom 2/3 the way across.

There is really nothing much to these old TRF radios. Lots of specialized parts...must be the "brother-in-law" effect.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 07-08-2003, 10:22 PM:

Got this AW-60 big fat sow working. One bad tube, two burned out resistors, and one shorted capacitor, and a "mis-wire" of the damn speaker field/voice coil. (oops) Is presently playing, waiting for a big cloud of smoke... [Smile]

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 07-08-2003, 10:50 PM:

Interesting Paul,
I couldn't help but notice your service aid: (See pic)

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 07-08-2003, 11:00 PM:

Sam, you can bet your butt on the service aid. It helps (shall I say) the "insanity" issue? [Big Grin]

...but you didn't notice my clock in the upper right hand corner of the picture. [Frown]

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 07-08-2003, 11:20 PM:

I think you need to take it to a clock smith [Wink]

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 07-08-2003, 11:22 PM:

But Sam, that's my pride and joy. Made it myself. It is "industrial strength." [Razz]

But I have to admit, it got dropped once to often. [Big Grin]

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 07-11-2003, 12:43 AM:

Here is one I picked up today south of Sunnyside, Washington. It is a Western Air Patrol. Never heard of that brand. Anyway, it works like a new one, but the cabinet is kinda gross. Looks like it might have gotten rained on.

Here is a close-up of the dial.

Here is a table model of that thing. Western Air Patrom Model 76

I have not really found any information on the company, but I did find they built a bunch of different models. The model I have is 276, Serial No. 23562X.

[ 07-11-2003, 01:52 AM: Message edited by: Paul G. Thompson ]

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 07-11-2003, 01:33 AM:

Paul: Sam beat me to the comment on the "mist"... I was going to ask how the hell can you drink that BUSCH crap!??? I could understand a BUD, but that sh!t! Whew! [bs]

I think you need to have ANOTHER Beer-Sampling session so as to pick a GOOD beer for consumption! [beer]

BTW: Is that an old TS-543(?) VOM I see in the background? Used MANY of those while in the military! [Big Grin]

Sam: What Program did you use to edit Paul's pic?

>>> Phil

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 07-11-2003, 01:49 AM:

Phil, the "mist" is just weak Budweiser. Much cheaper, too. 99 cents for a 24 oz'er. Budweiser is too expensive, and I am "cheap" [Big Grin]

That meter (I think) was the navy's version of the TS-352B/U. I think it is the same as the TS-543 you mentioned, but I could be wrong. The navy loved those meters...they were one of the most accurate analog meters of their day. I paid 10 bucks for it, and it works.

The smaller meter in the background is the TS-297/U. US Army surplus, but it is a 1000-ohm per volt job on both the AC and DC scales. It is kinda accurate, and it is a good meter to "see if you have something there" - but that's about it. You don't want to use something like that for calibrating a power supply that has "no balls."

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 07-11-2003, 02:26 AM:

Yes! It was the 352 I was thinking of....I must have been smokin' some of Brad's Rockwall I-30 stuff! [Big Grin]

I still use my 20-year-old Triplett 630 NS for my main analog meter... CAN NOT be beat!

>>> Phil

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 07-11-2003, 09:40 AM:

Windows Paint. I was lazy and couldn't think of a better way to do it.

Posted by Chris Markiewicz (Member # 1415) on 07-12-2003, 05:22 PM:

Triplett 630s ROCK! [thumbsup]

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 07-14-2003, 12:25 AM:

Chris, the Triplett is a damn good meter. The navy had some, but it gave way to the TS-352. Why, I don't know. I could only guess because the Triplett was not too easily identified as being military property as it traveled through the gate in the trunk of a car. The TS-352 stuck out like a sore thumb, like the TV-7B/U (which was manufactured by Hickock), AN/USM-24C Oscilloscope, and other universal test equipment.

Phil probably remembers the 24C quite well. It had a 3-inch CRT, and if you didn't open the back door all the way, the 24C would heat up hotter than a firecracker. True, the back door was interlocked, but the navy had plenty of numb-nuts that just opened the door far enough to close the interlock. [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 09-26-2003, 01:23 AM:

Added another Philco radio to my collection Tuesday. This one has a built-in 78RPM phonograph.

You flop the speaker loover down and the phonograph pops out. (kinda like the old secretary desks that had a hide-away typewriter) [Smile]

Posted by Hillary Charles (Member # 769) on 09-26-2003, 07:35 AM:

Paul,

I have one of these also. When I was checking out the high end on the AM band (further than I had seen on modern receivers), I started hearing neighbors telephone calls, presumably on cordless phones. The dial says "Police Band" or something like that...not anymore.

Hillary

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 09-26-2003, 12:26 PM:

Hillary, I would presume it was the older cordless telephones that found its way through. The older radios were very sensitive. The antenna signal is booseted by one or more RF amplifiers. Not today. The antenna signal is just dumped right into the converter. Works fine...as long as you are sitting on the transmitter.

In the police band, you might have been picking up a harmonic of the telephone's RF signal.

You would be surprised on what you can pick up in those old radios that are up to snuff. Several times while I was playing around with them, I connected an RF signal generator to the radio and "beat" its output with an incoming RF signal. The difference between the two signals gets through the RF amplifier, gets processed through the radio and out of the speaker comes some foreign language from a distant country.

In the converter stage's output, you will have four signals: the two orginals (the local oscillator and the station you are tuned to) and the sum and difference of those two frequencies. The Intermediate Frequency cans in the radios is tuned to receive the difference of the two signals, and that is called the Intermediate Frequency. It is then detected by the detector, the RF is filtered out, and all you have left is audio.

It yours is in good condition (working or not) hold on to it. I paid $129.00 for mine. Given it's condition, I think I got a good deal.

The value of these old radios depends on the eye of the beholder.

Posted by Jeff Stricker (Member # 224) on 09-26-2003, 03:02 PM:

Paul, that's a sharp radio. The cabinetry looks like the day it left the factory.

Hillary, years ago the police band was right about the AM broadcast band. More recently, cheap wireless phones used this area of spectrum. Of course the AM band is now expanded to 1700 kHz. There's not much between 1700 and 1800 (some cordless phones that haven't yet been tossed out) The 160 meter Amateur band is 1800 - 2000 kHz. If you can tune there in the evening hours you will hear some hams using AM, which your old radio will pick up (Single sideband will sound like Donald Duck on a receiver that that picks up AM). There's a group of hams on 160 meters that run old converted AM broadcast transmitters. That's heavy metal!

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 10-03-2003, 12:52 PM:

Here is a picture of the Philco 40-215 chassis in work. This thing is a real bear!! Hopefully, it'll be far enough along by tomorrow to power it up.

Orginally in 1940, this radio featured a Wireless Remote Control. Unfortunately, someone removed the stepper relay from the radio. The motorized volume control is still intact but the bull gear has a broken tooth. Although it works, I have to be careful about how far I let it ramp up with the motor. I think I can repair the gear but I'll worry about that later.

I am still optimistic about getting it in operation. There is a possibility I might be able to find a stepper relay for it. If I can, I'll get that in operation, too.

The actual remote control consisted of a No. 30 tube, a 45-volt battery and a filament supply. Naturally, it had some oscillator coils in it, too. I should be able to build one if I can't find one.

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 10-03-2003, 01:03 PM:

I see you switched brews there Paul [beer]