Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Website for building your own website?

This is topic Website for building your own website? in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Mike Heenan (Member # 392) on 07-08-2003, 10:37 PM:

Is there a good web site out there that explains everything you need to know about building your own webpage, and all the details about registering domain names, etc, all that stuff? Thanks!

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 07-08-2003, 10:58 PM:

Webmonkey is a pretty good site for all kinds of users from beginners to experts:
http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/

As for actual in-the-app mechanics stuff, some of that will depend on the app you use to develop your web pages. Macromedia Dreamweaver, hands down, is the defacto leader now among web page building applications. I've used FrontPage and Adobe GoLive for years and easily admit Dreamweaver is the better program. One thing that makes it better is the much larger array of online websites that help you learn and use Dreamweaver. Here's some of the better ones out there:
http://www.dwfaq.com/
http://www.projectseven.com/
http://www.thepattysite.com/

And here's a couple other design oriented websites I like to visit for some news and inspiration:
http://www.k10k.net/
http://www.designiskinky.net/
http://www.pixelsurgeon.com
http://www.screamingcactus.com/

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-09-2003, 01:59 AM:

I hate Dreamweaver. I can't figure it out at all. I can't drag and drop and move stuff around on the page by dragging like I should be able to. I feel like I am using Quark and Quark sucks ass. The UI is way overly complicated on Dreamweaver as well. Trust me, it is by far easier to type everything in by hand in an empty text document. Faster, too. My opinion might change if I knew how to use it, but there are so many tabs and buttons in the Dreamweaver app that it is simply not worth my time. I am way too lazy to click on any of the links above. Someone needs to personally show me how to use it... and pay me while they are at it.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-09-2003, 02:06 AM:

Dreamweaver also occasionally writes bad code that good browsers cannot interpret. That alone kills it in my book.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 07-09-2003, 02:52 PM:

That's why you only use vi, right Brad? [evil]

Mike, whoever you are paying to host your site should be able to walk you through the setup. You're going to need someone to run a virtual server along with DNS for it to work. You'll also need to register the domain with any registrar you want. The easiest way (if their prices are on par with others) is to just register it through your hosting provider... that way they can setup DNS for you. For third party registers... I usually register with OpenSRS through Tera-Byte Dot Com.

BTW, if you're just putting up a site as a hobby and don't want to spend too much, you can always use Redirection.net to point your domain at a free (or cheap) webspace that you may have on GeoCities, or included with your internet access package. Redirection.net just puts your free webspace in a frame that is accessed when you navigate to your domain. It also includes email redirection from your domain to any mailboxes you choose. I believe it costs $5 per year.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 07-09-2003, 03:01 PM:

Joe, just steal code from sites you like and change the color. Nobody will know the difference. You could even get people to pay you for it.

Dreamweaver is difficult. I've had to keep toying with it until I get what I want. It is cool that it keeps all your site files and image paths managed when you upload changes.

Posted by Matt Hale (Member # 1518) on 07-09-2003, 06:05 PM:

For an online HTML and javascript reference, I highly recommend Sizzling Jalfrezi I dont know what the name means, but its got me through half a dozen sites over the years with little more than a text editor.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-09-2003, 07:34 PM:

I could steal code (and have, just to see how I can modify it), but I would never charge for it. Back when I got some sort of certification in web developing I didn't need to. But of course there were ZERO jobs out there and I have forgotten more than I have learned, if that's possible. Now I am so bad I'd never consider doing it professionally. It was a great way to waste money, getting that certification.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 07-09-2003, 08:11 PM:

quote:
It was a great way to waste money, getting that certification.

How could you have known? A lot of people did that. Just like the truck-driver training I went through! All the good jobs want you to have 1-2 years experience, but to get that you have to work free, and I ain't goin' there.

(Btw... I wasn't serious about stealing code, guy.) [Wink]

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-09-2003, 09:46 PM:

I know you weren't serious about that. But nonetheless I HAVE taken code off of sites so I can learn.

Posted by Don Bruechert (Member # 1538) on 07-10-2003, 09:33 AM:

I don't like Dreamweaver either. I tried it and it was too much of a pain in the ass so I went looking elsewhere. Frontpage is "OK" but it has its moods too, and there are some webhosts out there that don't want to support it because you have to add a lot of crap to your server configuration. It also makes your site kind of messy if you are trying to edit by hand because it scatters various configuration and control files all over the place. I have used a couple of free ones that I thought were OK. Hotdog is one that comes to mind quickly, and coffee cup software has a nice set of utilities as well. The one I am using now is Netobjects fusion. It works very well for average site construction, although I have found a few annoyances in the way it writes code for stuff like Javascript. The code to implement my webcam streaming video has to be set up a certain way, and I have not yet learned how to do it thru the program. I just download the file after it is published and change it by hand. Two accompanying tools that I really like ar cuteFTP and cuteHTML, which you can at least try for free. The first allows you to transfer files between your computer and your webspace, and the second is an easy to use HTML editor for when you need to make those changes by hand... Of course, "vi" is another favorite editor but I haven't yet got it to run under windows.....

Posted by Evans A Criswell (Member # 381) on 07-10-2003, 09:54 AM:

I've always written my HTML from scratch using "vi" if on a UNIX system or "Notepad" on a Windows box, or have written programs to take data and spit it out in HTML. I've never been happy with applications I've tried to design WWW sites by just laying things out and having it generate HTML. The HTML generated by such apps tends to be far more complex than if you'd just coded the page by hand. Once you use such an app, then you tend to be stuck with doing all your developement and future modifications with it.

Just start by learning HTML and learning the basics, like common HTML tags for paragraphs, tables, images, etc. It's a shame that so many web sites are judged so much on apperance rather than content.

I like my hsvmovies.com website. It is all content with no ads and is mostly text so that it loads quickly even for people with phone modems. The reason it looks like it was done in 1998 is, well, it WAS done in 1998. Ha! I did my first WWW site in 1995 and back then you could get away with having subpages that were plain text documents and nobody would complain. Now there are lots of WWW sites out there that are pretty that contain very little actual content or information.

Posted by Joe Beres (Member # 678) on 07-10-2003, 10:00 AM:

Granted, Dreamweaver has a somewhat steep learning curve, but once you get past it, it is a powerful tool. It has its quirks, but saved me a lot of time when I was building a large website.

Posted by Hugh McCullough (Member # 1542) on 07-11-2003, 07:49 AM:

I tried quite a few site building programmes, but found most of them to be either too complicated, too expensive,or just rubbish.
Then I came across Cute Sitebuilder, and it even has a built in FTP prog.
www.globalscape.com
Costs about $40, but you can try it for 30 days for $9.

Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 07-11-2003, 10:53 AM:

Depending on any program to generate code for you is going to produce haphazard results at best. Programs like FrontPage will produce HTML that will look just like you saw it in FrontPage; as long as you view it in Internet Explorer. Try looking at it in Netscape, Mozilla, Safari, or Opera, and you'll be surprised that it's the same page. FrontPage generated sites also scream "FrontPage" since they tend to look very similar to each other, lacking any kind of originality or imagination.

Programs that do all the work for you are giving you a tradeoff: ease of use vs. quality results. Nothing will replace knowing what you're doing and why something is done the way it is. The best way to learn this is the same way you learn how to swim; you get in the water and figure it out, learning as you go.

The O'Reilly series of books are usually pretty good at explaining the details of the particular subject they cover, but they can get pretty detailed pretty quickly.

If you can find some HTML tutorial sites and books, that will help. A quick search on Google and Amazon will net you plenty of examples that should fit your comfort level.

As far as learning about registering domain names, the easiest thing to do is find a provider that has a price and features that you like, and follow the steps they require to set up the web hosting service, domain name, etc. Any place that wants your money badly enough will help you through the process, just don't expect that level of service from the lower-priced services, since they are working on low margins to serve people who don't need a high level of hand-holding.

All that said, unless you're doing this for a hobby and/or you really want to spend hundreds of hours learning how to do everything, you might be better off hiring a professional if you're looking for professional results.

Anyone can create a web page, there are millions of examples of that. But to get professional results, hire a professional. You'll have something that you're happy with, done in a reasonable amount of time, and something that represents you well.

Disclaimer: I'm a web designer by profession, so my opinions are very biased -- but also the result of almost 9 years of experience in the field.

Good luck!

Posted by Don Bruechert (Member # 1538) on 07-12-2003, 12:26 AM:

If you are looking for someone to register your domain cheap, and host your site if needed, try www.homepageuniverse.com they only charge $17.00 US a year to register your domain, and can host your site for you if you wish at a reasonable price. I have my own servers so I just use them to register domains, but I have recommended them to friends who have used their hosting with good results.

I do agree with Scott though. Unless it is just a hobby I would probably just pay someone to at least set up the site and then maybe you can edit some of the content yourself later to save money. I use a web design program to do my stuff, but I still have hundreds of hours in processing photos and creating text and other creative content. A professional can ask you what you want and whip it all out pretty fast for you. I basically started the whole tbecause I wanted to prove to Myself that if kids can create websites than I can too... Over the years though I have spent time trying to understand what goes on behind the scenes, and I am somewhat capable of editing some of my own stuff if I don't like what the program is doing (or if I publish a change to a website and there is a major error in what I did, and then I am getting screamed at while I am at work, I Can just download the file, edit it quick to fix the error on the web, and then fix it for real when I get home)

I do find it enjoyable and creative....