This is topic ? about slide film developing at home in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 07-22-2003, 11:21 PM:
 
Can it be done? Do they have a "kit" for it and what all would it take? From what I understand slide film is "Positive" in that the film you have in your camera once developed would be placed in your slide.
And finally, is it worth the trouble?
Why, because I would like to experiment with it just for the fun of it, sort of.
 
Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 07-23-2003, 12:18 AM:
 
Kodak has an E-6 processing kit available for their reversal (slide) films. It's available at most pro photo stores. You of course would still need all the "hardware" as the kit only contains the chemicals.

I'm sure John could point you in the right Direction on the Kodak web site. [Big Grin]

>>> Phil
 
Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 07-23-2003, 01:48 AM:
 
Apart from the chemicals you need:

I used to do my own E6 processing, which was quite fun. Getting the first developer and reversal developer to the right temperature was a bit tricky: I found that the best way to do it was to add varying quantities of hot and cold water to the base chemical until you had the right level of dilution and temperature.
Also it's worth buying some re-usable 35mm still camera film cassettes from a photography shop and practising unloading some scrap film into the developing tank a few times before you try it with a real exposed film. This has to be done in complete and utter darkness, so if you don't have a room which completely blacks out (e.g. a cellar) you'll need a changing bag.
Black-and-white negative film can also be developed using the equipment above, but I'm told that C-41 colour negative is a lot more complicated. I guess for amateur photographers who want to use film to originate images and then scan the negatives and do the printing stage through a PC, home developing could be quite a good idea if you get through lots of footage. Specialist photography shops will do negative only developing (i.e. you don't have to buy a set of paper prints as well), but your average chemist or one-hour operator won't.
 
Posted by Don Bruechert (Member # 1538) on 07-23-2003, 09:00 AM:
 
Sam,

I used to have my own darkroom and do a lot of film processing and printing. I was developing and printing both B&W ad Slide film, and I was also rolling my own from 100 foot rolls, which can save you a lot of money if you are really into shooting film.

All of the info provided thus far is excellent. I will say I definately prefer the changing bag to a dark room for loading my film onto reels for two reasons: First is that you can use it anywhere, even in front of the TV while watching the game, and the second is that without spending a lot of time or having a permanent location you can never be sure your room is completely "dark" every time, and film is a lot more sensitive to any amount of light than paper is (for printing). The changing bag seals everything up inside of two dark bags (one inside the other) and has two tight-sealing armholes in it so you can work inside. Once you get used to it you can do everything by feel anyway. Cost - about $18.

Next, we get to the chemistry. I have used the Kodak kit, and like it, but I find it to be more expensive if you are planning to develop a lot of film. On thing you need to know is that the chemicals, once mixed, are only good for about a maximum of 6 weeks (or 6 rolls of slides, whichever comes first). If you don't shoot a lot of film, save up the rolls until you have a bunch of them and try to process them within a few weeks. The longer/more time the chemistry is exposed to the air the weaker it gets - that's why the 6 week time limit. I used to use Jobo chemicals - their kit was called Photocolor E6 and it was a 5 liter kit. You mixed up a batch that was good for 6 rolls (or 6 weeks) as needed and it was cheaper because it was in larger quantities.

Keeping temperatures. Temperatures are critical for proper slide film processing and any slight variation will affect the processing times. If you do this a while (and make mistakes) you will find a proper rhythm that works for you. GET AN EXCELLENT THERMOMETER - Do Not Skimp. Slide processing works best at 100 degF and you are supposed to keep everything at that temp the entire time. FOR ME, I have found that filling a dishpan with 110 deg water and letting EVERYTHING soak in there before starting works best. Use your thermometer and wait until your first developer warms up to 101 deg and then start processing. There will be a sligt temperature loss when you pour them chemicals into the film tank so this helps a bit. Keep your water bath WARMER than your processing temperature so the temps stay up, but not so warm as to raise the temp inside the tank while developing. I found the gradual cool off from 110 deg during the development time worked good for me. Your tank will also lose heat when you remove it from the water bath to agitate the chemicals. The rest of the chemicals are not AS temperature sensitive as the developer stage.

I recommend adding Kodak Photo-Flo to your final rinse per the directions on the bottle. This is a surfactant that will help the film to dry properly.

A couple final things. Start your processing experience with 24 exposure rolls. 12's are too short and waste 1 hit on your chemistry, and you will find 36 exposures tend to drag on the floor when trying to find a place to hang them to dry because they are so long - find a nice, lint and dust free place where the film can hang to dry undisturbed. I recommend Pakon plastic slide mounts - they are quite easy to use, and reusable if necessary. Buy the kit the first time - it comes with a cute little plastic tool you can use to load them.

After you do it a few times you will really like it - it is not really as hard as it seems. HAVE FUN - hope this wasn't too long. [Smile]
 
Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 07-23-2003, 09:37 AM:
 
Here's the Kodak E-6 process:

Kodak E-6 Home Kit

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/service/chemicals/qaE6.shtml

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/service/Zmanuals/z119.shtml

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/j83/j83.jhtml

http://www.adoramacamera.com/Darkroom_PhotoChemicals_E-6Chemistry.html

Lots of fun to do at home, and the suggestions posted by others are good ones.
 
Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 07-23-2003, 10:03 AM:
 
Wow! Thanks for all the great info guys!
I think I would like to try this at least once!
Again, thanks!
 
Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 07-23-2003, 11:02 AM:
 
I do quite a lot of E6, rolls and sheets. It's not difficult, just take care, and follow the instructions exactly. All normal colour slide films, except Kodachrome are now E6 compatible, and have been for years. Fuji call theirs something different, (CR56?) and I think Agfa have a different number, but they're all compatible.

You do need quite a high temperature, most kits use 38C, 100F, I have a thermostatic water bath, which helps.

Make sure you have somewhere dust free for drying.

You generally get more films per unit of chemistry, and save time, if you process several films at once. I use the Tetanal 6 bath kit, make up 1 litre at a time, and that will do four 35mm films at once in a stainless steel tank, or three in a plastic one. One Litre is supposed to be good for 12 rolls (36 exp.), but if I always do a full tank, I find I can do 14 or 15 with no loss of quality (Kodak control strips put through and checked on densitometer).

Make sure bottles for first and colour developers are kept full, add marbles or cover the solution with an inert or reducing gas, available in aerosol cans, for maximum storage life.

Keep everything clean, avoid contaminatination of chemicals, espically colour developer.

Should be obvious, but observe sensible precautions, don't eat, drink or smoke while handling chemicals, keep them away from children etc.

Be careful with the colour developer, I used to be able to soak my arms in the stuff for hours on end when I was doing colour printing, then suddenly, about fifteen years ago, I got alergic to it, and now the shightest splash on my skin will bring me up in a very nasty rash.

The first film I ever processed was colour slides, in the old E2 process, which took absolutely ages! I didn't even have a tank, I used to see-saw the film through dishes of chemicals - how things have changed, in this case for the better. [Smile]
 
Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 07-23-2003, 02:45 PM:
 
Would something like this work?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2941105451&category=15247
 
Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 07-23-2003, 02:59 PM:
 
That's bigger than you need for just loading a small tank, but larger bags can be easier to work in, and will enable you to handle bigger things, like movie camera magazines, if you need to at some time.
 
Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 07-23-2003, 03:02 PM:
 
I figured the bigger the better and also it would make it easier to manage things inside.
Thanks!
 
Posted by Greg Mueller (Member # 17) on 07-23-2003, 03:11 PM:
 
Astrophotographers do it all the time Sam. Mostly because some of the processing for the exotic films used is not done by regular processing places. If it's just regular old E6 or something that your local Costco (etc) will do, don't bother with it. That is unless you just want to monkey around with it. If it's something weird like hypered tech pan, then you have to do it yourself.
 
Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 07-23-2003, 03:32 PM:
 
The biggest reason I wanted to develop slides myself is that I want to be able to make my own Advertising slides and funny stuff for my screening room, things like telling my Son he needs a haricut or my wife that I love her and that kind of stuff. I was planning on making the ads using my printer then placing it in a homemade lightbox and taking a picture of it using a 35mm camera then developing the stuff myself to see what works and what doesn't instead of waiting two weeks for the slides to be printed and returned. I guess though when I get my photo setup right then I wouldn't need to do it myself.

Seems like there was a topic on here somewhere about making your own slides but surely it is possible. I would build a lightbox that you could affix the subject on have a 35mm camera affixed the correct distance away and focused properly for this thing. Anyway just a thought.
 
Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 07-23-2003, 03:32 PM:
 
Ooops, my post doubled.
 
Posted by Greg Mueller (Member # 17) on 07-23-2003, 03:40 PM:
 
They got pretty slick table/platform jiggers that have a vertical (adjustable) leg for your camera to attach to and 4 lights on goose necks pointing down at the table. You lay the subject matter on the table and turn on the lights crank the camera up or down to frame the shot and fire away. Sort of like the way an enlarger works except it takes pictures instead of making them
 
Posted by Jeff Skallan (Member # 891) on 07-23-2003, 05:32 PM:
 
Sam,

I've had pretty amazing results setting up my Minolta SLR on a tripod and taking photos directly from my computer monitor. I used E-6 slide film and found a local photo lab that processed and mounted the slides for only $5 with a 2 hour turn around time. Just remember to turn off your camera's flash and have all other lights off in the room as not to create any reflection or glare from your monitor.
 
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 07-23-2003, 05:45 PM:
 
I don't know if they still make the film, but Polaroid has (had?) an "instant 35mm slides" product. You shoot their special film and then process it in a handcranked light-tight box. The process is a bit clunky, but doesn't require water or temperature control like E6 does. I think the film is (was?) something like $15 per roll for either color or B&W. Picture quality is marginal, but the results have an interesting look nonetheless.

Realistically, though, I'd recommend finding a local lab that can do same-day E6 processing. I normally pay $8.50 or so per roll for processing and mounting; this seems very reasonable and I have a hard time imagining that home processing would be any cheaper. If I had a house or larger apartment, I'd love to have a B&W darkroom, though.

Another option to consider is a professional service which will take computer files and make slides using a digital film recorder. This can get expensive, but the quality is usually quite good.
 
Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 07-23-2003, 09:17 PM:
 
Polaroid Instant Slidefilm and Processor

I had very good luck with this product. We made slides for before each showing and they lasted over 10 years in an ORC 500 slide projector.

We had a few "Special Events" where we photographed the celebrities coming into the theatre and projected the images in the preshow. That was very impressive to all in the audience.

I ran a custom lab in my basement for many years and found that the most consistent results with reversal color films were obtained by using a thermostatically controlled water source (mixer valve) with a micro-particle filter and developed in stainless steel tanks. The final rinse ended with Kodak Photo=flo 2000 added to prevent water marks during drying.

You can have a lot of fun doing chemicals and watching the results. You will spend much time and money in learning the process. I believe that the most useful piece of my lab gear was "the wastebasket". Perfection commands a price.

KEN
 
Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 07-23-2003, 09:53 PM:
 
Jeff wrote:

quote:
Just remember to turn off your camera's flash and have all other lights off in the room as not to create any reflection or glare from your monitor
And be sure to use a long enough exposure time so you don't get a "band" in the image from the fast moving focal plane shutter interacting with the monitor display refresh rate. Probably 1/15 second or longer should work.
 
Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 07-24-2003, 02:07 AM:
 
processing your own is probably not a good idea if tou only want to do the odd roll occasionally. A typical plastic tank needs about 300ml of solution to cover a 35mm film, so this is the minimum quantity you could make up. There are slight variations between different kits, but this is probably going to be able to process three or four 36 exposure films. Once made up, the developers have a life of about two to three weeks, the other solutions rather longer, so to get the maximum use from the chemicals you either need to be shooting about two films per week, or wait until you have a batch of films ready before making up the solutions. The concentrates in the kit will keep for about a year, so you need to use the whole kit in this time.

I usully buy a 5 litre kit, I make it up in one litre batches, each of which will process 12-14 films, therefore I can get 60-70 films from one kit. I process film for myself, and for one other person, and this is just about the amount we get through in a year. The cost of the kit is just over fifty pounds, so that works out at something under a pound per roll, unmounted.

Buying smaller kits is more expensive, and discarding chemicals before they are fully used even more so.

To keep John happy, I will also point out that using chemicals to less than their capacity is not good from an environmental point of view. [Smile]

If you do decide to do it, I would recommend either the Kodak or Tetanal, distributed in the USA by Jobo I think, chemicals. Both will give excellent results, I use the Tetanal six bath version for reasons of kit sizes and availability in my area.
 
Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 07-24-2003, 03:21 AM:
 
I think the bottom line is that home-processing is only worth doing if (i) you want to, and (ii) you click your way through feet and frames in the sort of quantities Stephen describes.

That having been said my experience is that chemists and even specialist photography shops (e.g. Jessops) either don't do it at all, take a long time, are very expensive, don't deliver very good results or a combination of all three. The last time I took any E-6 slides was when Boots were out of Kodachrome and I needed to do some to show before a special film screening. The only place that would develop the film in anything under 28 days shop imaginatively named Snappy Snaps (at £12 for one roll) and when it came back (unmounted - I had to do that myself) it was full of stains and chemical blotches. I had to rewash it myself in the shower!

Given that I only take slides two or three times a year now I'm happy just to get Kodachrome, which is process-paid. Furthermore I think it looks better than E-6 slides (with the possible exception of the Fuji 50 ASA stuff, which to my mind has a nicer colour balance than Kodachrome 200) too.

If I ever started doing serious photography again I'd certainly consider a combination of home processing followed by PC-based printing, though.
 
Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 07-24-2003, 06:01 AM:
 
I would say that you need to process about about three runs within two to three weeks, once you have mixed the solutions, the larger the volume you make up the more films you can process, both in each run, and in total. If you make up 300ml, which is about the minimum for a plastic tank, you're talking about needing to do an average of about one film per week during the 2-3 week life of the chemicals. Of course, you can save up your films, and only mix the chemicals when you have enough to make it worthwhile, but then you lose the advantage of seeing your pictures quickly.

If you are doing less than this then it probably isn't worth doing it yourself unless there are special circumstances, e.g. you need the pictures in a hurry, and there isn't a lab nearby.

Over the year, I process the equivilent of slightly more than one film per week, but these tend to be in batches of about 10-14 over a couple of days every few weeks. About one third of these are my own, the rest for the other person.
 




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