Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Kick-Ass Car Stereo

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Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 08-17-2003, 04:41 PM:

The below should be read with the full knowledge that I am 41-years-old.

I hate, hate, hate those kids who drive around with their stereos thump, thump, thumping. My assistant manager, Sean is one of those kids and takes his car to loudness competitions and wins sometimes. He tells me that his subs can reach 150 decibels!

I have a 1994 Dodge Caravan with the factory AM/FM radio, and 139,000 miles on the odometer. My car is named Norge because it resembles a refrigerator. I bought it in a fit of desperation after totaling my 1992 Plymouth Colt Vista after moving to California. After having my stereo stolen out of the Colt Vista, I swore that I would never have another aftermarket stereo installed.

FM radio in Northern California sucks much ass, and the reception is poor to boot.

I was looking to buy a new car pending a landscaping bid for my back yard. The landscaping bid came it at twice what I had budgeted for it. So I decided that I would keep Norge for another year. All the better for carrying around plants and mulch, anyway.

Since I am driving it a couple of thousand miles across the desert to Telluride next week, I decided to have a CD player put in so I could listen to music. One of my ex-employees got a job at a local car stereo shop, so I took Norge to him. The speakers would have to be replaced of course, due to the fact that they rattled. Sirius radio was having a promotion that gave you their receiver for free if you signed up for satellite radio for a year. I figured that would be nice for my 35-mile commute. Also the shop was having a buy one; get one free promotion on their subwoofers. It might be nice to have a little bottom fill with my music. (I did tell them to back it off quite a bit as I didn’t want boom, but just a nice bit of bottom end fill.)

So this is what I ended up with:

Kenwood KDC-PM522 head unit (Does CD, AM/FM, Sirius Ready & MP3)
Sirius tuner (under the passenger seat)
Sirius (puck-like) antenna on the roof by the hatch
2 - 6"x9" JVC 3-way speakers in the back hatch
2 - 5 ¼" Kicker coaxial speakers in the dash (I had specified 4" JVC but the holes were bigger and I got the upgrade for free.)
2 Phoenix Gold 10" subs in a non-parallel, carpeted, sub enclosure
1 Phoenix Gold, 150 watt, stereo amp, bridged for the subs (under the driver’s seat)

Holy shit! [Eek!]

This system rocks! My God, you can’t back the bass off enough. At first I was a little bit disappointed by the sound of Sirius radio. The highs a bit bright and tizzy and the bass is a bit pronounced. (Well, in my car anyway) I haven’t had a chance to play around with the EQ yet. But finally I put in Disc two of Rush Chronicles and this system just sounds great. Neal Pert never sounded as good on any system I have ever owned. The bass is tight and doesn’t seem to lose control. The bass notes can be differentiated from each other.

I have to be careful to turn it down when I drive through my neighborhood. Oh my God, I have become one of those people I hate.

I figure that a few of us techno-geeks have pretty good care stereos too.
[Cool]

So, what have you got?
[eyes]

Posted by Ron Lacheur (Member # 1126) on 08-17-2003, 04:53 PM:

Holy shit Ian, PG Subs and you didn't want boom? That's impossible.

Pretty good all around. Just keep an eye on the Kenwood deck. They are known to have faulty face plates that just stop working.

Posted by Ron Lacheur (Member # 1126) on 08-17-2003, 04:54 PM:

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-17-2003, 05:01 PM:

Back many years ago in college a friend of mine put TWO 18" subwoofers in his trunk! He converted the entire trunk to an enclosure, so as one would expect with the trunk open there was no bass to be had at all, but close the trunk and he could crack your skull with the vibrations. He installed a second alternator and the entire system (less the head unit) ran off of AC power via converters. The trunk housed a small rack with 1/3 octave EQs on every channel, a Pro Logic decoder and an insane amount of amplifier power. Did I mention his satellies were 3 way? Indeed it was the most powerful system I have ever seen. I didn't like his choice of midrange drivers, as I felt it destroyed the quality of the sound and he was deaf at the highest frequencies (so they were boosted far too high), but for sheer mammothness, it could not be beat.

By the way Ian, most of those guys judge the quality of their systems by cranking it up and standing outside of the car. That to me is just stupid. I don't think a goal of a car system should be to broadcast music, but to sound good INSIDE the car with as little bleed through to the outside as possible. Also most car systems cannot handle the real low end very well. This fellow would play pipe organ music with frequencies down to 20hz and it could reproduce them effortlessly. Most of the music you hear in these competitions is 50hz "boom bass", which is easily reproduced.

Taking a cue from him in 1992 I put a single 18" in my 1984 Honda Accord coupled with a fairly high end set of stereo speakers. (I kept them in their boxes.) I didn't bother with pro logic or anything like that, but I did have a 10 band eq on the satellites and a 1/3 octave mono eq on the sub (which I calibrated with an RTA) and a couple of sizable amps in the trunk. The system was effortlessly flat to 20hz. My head unit was only a cassette, but I had a portable "walkman-type" cd player and a direct line level in cable running up to the front of the car. While I'm sure there have and are better systems out there, it still remains the best car system I have personally ever heard. Of course a 16 year old girl in a Ford Escort rammed me on an overpass at an estimated 50mph after I had the system running for only one week. The impact of her car hitting my car pushed mine into the Suburban in front of me so hard the rear tires of the Suburban was inches from my face on the windshield. (Everyone was stopped but her. She was busy painting her nails, so obviously that was ok.) All in all 5 cars were totaled because of her and I never bothered to put in any serious effort on another car system. It's been so long now I'd have to put some thought into it if I wanted to do it again.

The moral of the story is though to put in 18" subwoofers. Anything else is a waste of time. [Big Grin]

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 08-17-2003, 05:11 PM:

I had an old Mercury Montego station wagon at one time, and I put a senserround 18-inch subwoofer (with the cabinet) in the back of the wagon. It took every inch of the space from the front seats to the tailgate. I used an inverter to power a Sansui QR-6500 amplifier. It sure sounded good. I could not put a cup of coffee on the roof of the car. The roof vibrated so bad it just bounced the coffee cup off the top of the car. [Big Grin]

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 08-17-2003, 06:52 PM:

Once upon a time in my yute....

I did the car stereo thing...Alpine and Jensen (this was back in the early '80s)...I had a joy-stick that could fade the sound anywhere around the four corners...separate High and low controls (all right under the dash, next to the parking brake release)...this was in a '65 Dodge Polara.

Then in 1984 I bought a Camaro...I went with Nakamichi Head unit and amps with JBL speakers. It did quite well and the tape player was second to none (auto azimuth and Dolby-C NR)...

Then at got a an '87 Corvette and....got a stock GM AM/FM radio with the anticipation that I would do an end-all system...but that just never happened...I found that I was just as happy with the radio and the stock speakers for the listeneing I do in the car. It also doesn't call attention to itself.

A couple of years ago...the radio died...so I found an AM/FM/Cassette radio on eBay for the '87 Corvette...so it perfectly matched the rest and now I have that and have used the cassette part about 5 times.

I guess you know when you are geezing when you think the factory radio in your car is just fine [Razz]

Steve

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-17-2003, 07:27 PM:

quote:
I guess you know when you are geezing when you think the factory radio in your car is just fine

Yup. Nowadays I listen to talk radio anyway. Nothing beats Russ Martin in the afternoons here in Dallas for driving entertainment. [thumbsup]

Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 08-17-2003, 10:24 PM:

I haven't even listened to the radio in my truck but once in the past two months. I'm in agreement with Ian ... the voices in my head are much more entertaining than the crap that's on the airwaves here in Northern California.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 08-17-2003, 10:46 PM:

I never listen to the radio. I'm not even sure how it works. But it's there if I need it for some reason (built into my in-dash MiniDisc player). Many times I will listen to MiniDiscs (of which I have tons and tons). I took the player out of my old car and put it in my new car just to retain the ability to play MDs. CD-R's didn't cut it for me because I didn't want to spend all the time turning a ton of MD's into CD's just for the car. My system sounds pretty good with decent low end. I don't want to add a subwoofer or anything, because then there would be no room for my bike or dead bodies to fit in the trunk.

I realize I will bankrupt the entire music industry for making copies of my music for listening to in the car (or on an MD Walkman). But oh well. They don't deserve to be in business anyway.

Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 08-17-2003, 10:46 PM:

Believe me, FM generally sucks here in North Carolina, too.

OK. Laugh after reading this if you think you need to...

I just re-coned all of the drivers in my factory Delco-Bose system in my 1985 Toronado. Also, re-capped each of the four amplifiers. Wow. Sounds great allover again. Total cost: $117. I removed and installed everything myself. The speakers were done by a local shop. I, too, play pipe organ in the car. The rumbling bass is back, and I can effectively drown out the loud cars around me.

My old truck has a Pioneer system with a matching 150 watt amp driving a home-made 12" woofer cabinet pair with tweeters. It's been in the truck since 1989, and still sounds fine. I've surprised several people at traffic lights with MY volume.

I love a good loud system, but I dont think that power is everything. My GM/Bose system is 25 watts per speaker set. Total is 100 watts. The woofers are all 5 inchers!! I shouldn't forget the chamber that makes it a Bose system. Close the port and the bass dies.

Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 08-17-2003, 11:45 PM:

I get sick and tired of hearing about these punks who think that how much wattage you are cranking out means everything! Fact is that most of these punks are clueless about soundsystem construction and design! Rarely have I heard one of these cheap rice rockets turned "high end Crap..er...Boom box" that is nothing more than an overabundance of uncomprehensible distortion!

Fact is that wattage means nothing with regards to sound quality. I always get a laugh about my friends home audio system. It is a mid-priced system that he put together while stationed in Korea in the 1960's-1970's. He supplied the speakers to which a Korean craftsman designed the cabinets. The cabinets were a mid sized free standing style about (4 * 2)Cranking this system up to a whopping 25 Watts woke up the neighborhood and put out a bottom end that would put these "high end Crap rockets) to shame! And his system put out an absolute minimum distortion to boot! He just had some decent speakers installed into these well made cabinets that were very efficient. And I think his reciever/amp was only rated somewhere between 50-100 Watts.

But for those of you into classic car restoration, CustomAutoSound along with JBL and Pioneer supply modern systems for a wide range of cars that install into the origonal dashboards w/o having to tear them up. These are pretty decent system, with a wide variety of accessories. Check out their web-site.

BTW, speaking of high end automobile systems, what about the Mark Levinson systems designed and installed for Lexus?

Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 08-18-2003, 02:19 AM:

I'm disgusted to learn that Steve Guttag doesn't have A-2's in his car.

Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 08-18-2003, 07:06 AM:

Will hit it on the head! I refuse to cut the radio opening on my Toronado. Most of the audio crap that I see in the stores is covered with gaudy flashing lights, etc, and I dont like that.

I wonder who is designing this stuff. A reject from the Village People staff?

Posted by Ron Lacheur (Member # 1126) on 08-18-2003, 08:57 AM:

Mark Levinson anything is a waste of money. I laugh at all these people that think spending $10,000 on a power amp means the absolute best sound. For that price you most likely could install a whole barrage of QSC and have quite a few bills left over.

Getting back to topic, Focal makes some of the best car audio speakers IMO. I'm for sure installing these in my new car next year.

Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 08-18-2003, 12:02 PM:

Bruce

check out www.custom-autosound.com

They have all kinds of neat goodies for my '65 Ranchero. The origonal dash speaker was mono paper with a tweeter sitting on top of the bass/midrange. Custom-Autosound has a dual stereo speaker set up that mounts in the origonal location w/o any mods. Kenwood upgrades included. Also, the origonal kick-panels in my car were plastic. Over time they warp and crack. Custom-Autosound has reproduction kick panels made out of ABS plastic modified to accept speakers. Between Custom-Autosound and Kenwood, I have about 6 radios to choose from that are made for my origonal dash and not requiring mods to the origonal sheetmetal. Kenwood also has a 10 disc c.d. changer that can be hooked up to some of these radios, as well as a secretaudio system.

For laughs, being a vinyl enthusiast, I was looking up high end turntables. Anyone knows that the Techniques 1200 mkII is an excellent machine. Sure, d.j.'s love them because they can "scratch" or what ever that rap-crap is called. But all in all this turntable is mechanicallly excellent and, with a good stylius, is easy on records. So, why do I laugh? Some of the hi-end turntables that I have seen run anywhere from $1500.00 to $100,000 U.S. and no, this is not a typo.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 08-18-2003, 01:06 PM:

I thought Steve wuld have had nothing less than a pair of A4's for his car stereo [Big Grin]

Posted by John Lasher (Member # 968) on 08-18-2003, 02:12 PM:

In DE, a cop can pull you over for having your music up too loud (if it's audible 5 feet or more from your car with the doors closed and the windows up, it's too loud)

I don't drive currently (licensed, not insured), and I don't own a car, but my parents drive a '94 Chevy Suburban and a '91 Dodge Caravan, both with the installed cassette players, my dad listens to NPR or Christian Family Radio (Where one program will often interrupt another, mid-word.)

Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 08-18-2003, 04:20 PM:

quote:
For laughs, being a vinyl enthusiast, I was looking up high end turntables. Anyone knows that the Techniques 1200 mkII is an excellent machine. Sure, d.j.'s love them because they can "scratch" or what ever that rap-crap is called. But all in all this turntable is mechanicallly excellent and, with a good stylius, is easy on records

I wouldn't take anything for my pair of 1200's. I bought them back in the early 90's... because I figured CD's would end up being a fad like so many other things. I worked as a mobile DJ for years, but NEVER scratched anything on my tables. No scratching required for wedding receptions. [Big Grin]

Thing I hate is... my original 30 watt Technics reciever I bought in high school finally crapped out about a year ago. Actually it was just the volume knob, everything else worked fine. Anyway, I bought me one of these "Home Theatre" receivers to replace... and guess what, no place on the rear inputs to hook up a turntable. Turntable signals have to be pre-amped, and this one doesn't have that.

Back to the topic of car stereo's, I drive a '96 Ford F150 with the factory radio/CD player. I took a pair of old drive-in speakers, gutted them and replaced the driver with a 4" 40watt JVC speaker. I put a 10 foot cable on them and placed a 1/4" phono plug on the end. Since my truck has speakers in the corners of the walls behind the seat, I installed a 1/4" "cut-out" jack on the grill of the factory speakers. When we go to the local drive-in, we slide open the rear window, run the cables through and plug them in behind the seat. The movie sound is in stereo, and my wife can listen to her side soft, and I crank mine up the way God intended. [thumbsup]

Posted by Ron Lacheur (Member # 1126) on 08-18-2003, 04:33 PM:

Will,

Don't 1200's retail for about $1300?

Barry,

Most receivers do include a phono input with a ground screw. Up here, I haven't seen a " Technics " brand anything for years. Panasonic ( Their parent company ) has started manufacturing receivers under their name.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 08-18-2003, 05:28 PM:

I used to have a 1990 Volvo station wagon, with the factory radio/tape player. It worked OK. In February, I got a new car (1996 Volvo); the new one also has the factory radio/tape player. Unfortunately, the new one is noticeably inferior to the old one. Radio reception (AM, especially) is worse, and the speakers are way too bassy, with almost no midrange. The plus side is that the radio antenna is now inside one of the windows, instead of being a motorized mast which tended to get damaged or fail for no apparent reason in my old car.

I used to have a portable CD player in the car, until it got stolen and I didn't bother to replace it.

If I could get significantly better radio reception and sound quality (I'm talking about "musical" sound not "one-note-bass" or "blast the neighborhood" sound) for a reasonable price (say, under $200), I'd seriously consider an upgrade. I would also consider satellite radio if the sound quality were decent and if the programming variety were really as great as the advertising claims it to be.

Any suggestions? Or should I just stick with the factory radio? I can live without CD capability if there's a way to upgrade just the speakers to something good.

Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 08-19-2003, 02:13 AM:

You need a car OR a radio.

So this (U.S.) guy decides he wants a Morgan, he orders one, plans a trip to England where he'll pick up his car, drive it around for awhile, then have it delivered to the US.

So he's at the factory & Peter Morgan is showing him around, he's watching them build his car, & he looks & says "Hey, where's the radio?"

Peter Morgan looks at him for about 10 seconds & says, "You listen to the motor."

US guy says, "uh..."

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 08-19-2003, 02:22 AM:

quote:
Don't 1200's retail for about $1300?

Interesting... a couple of years ago, I paid about $600 for my 1210...the Black version... Add the cartridge and stylus for another $500...that's about $1100 for the package.

>>> Phil

Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 08-19-2003, 07:31 AM:

I got to use a 1200 about 2 years ago. Really nice tracking on some really poor discs.

I've got an Audio-Technica cartridge and stylus. Paid about $100 for it in 1984. Bought a replacement styli this year. It alone cost $50. Wow.

I currently use a Kenwood direct-drive turntable from around 1980. Got it for $25 at a yard-sale about 10 years ago. I found a bad solder connection on it, and it has worked perfectly since. I have to clean the speed control pot every year or so.

Back to the topic: I heard a huge system in a Honda Accord last night. Heard it from inside the car, I mean. [Big Grin]

The bass was overwhelming and the highs are scratchy and digital sounding. I got out of the car with a headache, and some temporary hearing loss... ears were ringing when I went to bed last night. The car is owned by the son of a pal of mine. I fear for his ears. And his wallet. He has a fortune sunk into this system.

EDIT: When I say digital sounding, I mean incredibly bright highs, etc. The system was supposedly 'tuned' by an "expert."

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-19-2003, 07:42 AM:

Interesting how this has turned to the subject of turntables. I bought a Garrard GT55 turntable back in 1980 for $30 from Foley's. It was a demo model and had a cracked hinge on the dust cover. This model was the first or one of them to have "linear tracking", but it accomplished it differently than the more recent linear tracking models. It kept the pivoting arm and had an alignment rod to twist the cartridge so that it maintained perfect alignment with the groove to prevent record damage. Later I upgraded to a Shure microridge cartridge and that turntable is still running flawlessly to this day. I have done demonstrations for friends from time to time and the quality always knocks people's socks off, even put up against $1000+ models on an A/B comparison. If anyone is in the market for a turntable and finds one of these, I would highly recommend it.

Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 08-19-2003, 09:39 AM:

You can buy a new 1200 for around $500 - $600. Mine are the Silver models. Like everyone else said though... it's only going to sound as good as the cartridge, headshell and stylus you choose. I have about as much invested in the cartridge, headshell and stylus as I do in the whole table.

I think my new home theatre reciever is either a Technicsor a Sony. Either way, it does not have a place to hook up the turn table. I was, and still am kinda pissed.

Posted by Joe Beres (Member # 678) on 08-19-2003, 10:12 AM:

I drive a '99 Saturn SL-1 with a stock AM/FM Cassette deck in it. I really wish I had a CD player, but I don't want to cut up the dash and risk thievery and put in an aftermarket deck in. I considered getting one when I got the car in 1999, but they wanted $360 for a single disc player upgrade, and over $500 for an armrest mounted 6-disc changer. You would think that manufacturers would keep some of the mark-ups on upgrades lower so that people would be more inclined to add them, but I guess that is asking way too much.

Posted by Josh Jones (Member # 447) on 08-19-2003, 10:59 AM:

I just bought a 1990 Geo Metro, and was quite pissed to find out that it had no speakers in the dash, just holes for them. 55 bucks later, it has speakers, but no deck. I want a head deck with a cd player and line outs. I am even considering getting a bazooka tube for the hatch. By then, I'll have to pull my bumper sticker off for fear of being a hipocryte [Smile]

But this will all have to wait, I'm still saving for my crotch rocket [Big Grin]

Josh

Posted by Matt Hale (Member # 1518) on 08-19-2003, 02:01 PM:

My 83 Chevy Celebrity (a classic if ever there was! [Big Grin]

) sports its original Delco AM/FM radio. I believe it was the first PLL tuner that GM ever offered - but the clock doesn't work. I know it has one, I've seen it maybe 3 times in that last 7 years, but normally when you turn off the radio the display just goes blank. Its probably just a bad solder joint but I can never be bothered to pull the whole dashboard to get to the stupid thing. Anyhow, the sound is really quite good for a factory system. I put a frequency analyzer in it once, just to see, and was able to get quite a flat response using only the bass and treble adjustments. Not a bad sound at all, but I don't like boom.

On the sub-topic of turntables I have an ancient Gray belt-drive model that came out of a CBC studio. Very nice unit, very smooth.

Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 08-19-2003, 02:16 PM:

I wanted Focal or MB Quart loudspeakers installed but they were 4 times more expensive than the speakers I installed. They sounded good but not 4 times better. The thing was that I thought that I just wouldn't be able to hear the difference in my somewhat loud minivan. I've driven around with my SPL meter and recorded 85 db with the windows rolled up. At 60 MPH with the windows rolled down the SPL meter was 99 db.

So after living with my system for a week these are my thoughts; although the sound is good, it's not great. The lower midrange is missing. Male speaking voices are too bassy, the announcer comes with a bit of subwoofer. But all the instruments in the lower midrange are very distant.

I did listen to my home system and was very disappointed with the sound. I guess my spending days are not over yet. I have an early '90s mini system from Kenwood. I'm going to start another thread for recommendations for my new home system.

Posted by Josh Jones (Member # 447) on 08-19-2003, 09:21 PM:

I bit the bullet today and could no longer drive in silence. I got the cheapest CD player with the best tuner I could find. I found a Pioneer DEH-P3500 for 169.99 at best buy after $20 rebate. Since I'm and FM guy, I need a good tuner, and this one will do .7 mV with 30DB SNR. Not too bad for portable audio. I also threw my dual 10" sub from my home system in the back, as this deck is set up to have the rear channels devoted to subs. I still have work to do.

Josh

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 08-19-2003, 09:44 PM:

quote:
I bought a Garrard GT55 turntable...It kept the pivoting arm and had an alignment rod to twist the cartridge so that it maintained perfect alignment...

Brad: Are you sure its a Garrard GT55? The ones I have seen have a 'standard' tonearm. The arm you describe is the one on the Garrard Zero-100 .

Here's the tables on my current DJ rig: On the left is a Technics SL1600, which is very similar to the SL1200, except it is fully automatic (modded to disable part of the automation) and has rotary switches for platter stop-start rather than the big square button. Weighs about the same, too [Roll Eyes]

For DJ use I use a Stanton 500AL 'Pro-Disco' cartridge and stylus; at home (This is my home table as well) I use an Empire 3000A/III. The table on the right is a Sony PS-T3 direct-drive table that handles DJ use very well, but has a thermal problem with its speed control circuitry, requiring it to remain running to keep it 'warmed up' and the speed locked.

Here I am back in 1995, with a Dual ULM series TT with Ortofon cartridge (left) and an 80's belt-drive Technics using the same Stanton AL500 cart.

-Aaron

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-19-2003, 09:45 PM:

Yup, I just looked at the thing to verify it is indeed a GT55.

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 08-19-2003, 09:49 PM:

HMM. Wonder if the 'Zero' arm was an option on other Garrard models, or maybe was a custom job?

-Aaron

Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 08-20-2003, 02:40 AM:

Josh said:

quote:
I got the cheapest CD player with the best tuner I could find. I found a Pioneer DEH-P3500 for 169.99 at best buy after $20 rebate. Since I'm and FM guy, I need a good tuner, and this one will do .7 mV with 30DB SNR. Not too bad for portable audio. I also threw my dual 10" sub from my home system in the back, as this deck is set up to have the rear channels devoted to subs

I don't understand. Do you hang the speakers from the handlebars, & install everything else under the seat?