This is topic CD prices coming down soon in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 09-05-2003, 03:58 PM:
 
Before I discuss the recent news about the reduction of CD prices of mainstream titles by Universal Music, I would first like to thank the members who took time to send me an email asking me to reconsider leaving the Film Tech forum. As you can see, I have listened to them and I am back. I now realize it was a wrong decision to announce my resignation from the forum when I had overreacted to a misunderstanding I had with a fellow member. Now that I have a adequate supply of 'chill pills' to control my sensitivity to any future misunderstandings here at Film Tech, on with my topic!

Universal Music has just announced they will price their mainstream titles at $12.98 from a high of $16.98 to $18.99 on October 1st. With the price reduction, retailers are now expected to discount many of these CDs to below $10.00 making music CDs a good value. Now that Universal will reduce their prices, all other labels will have do the same to remain competitive. I have been buying CDs ever since they were first introduced and felt the prices were high but I still bought them because I love the clarity of the sound compared to the long playing records I have been collecting since I was a teenager.

Ever since, DVDs of major motion picture are sold at Costco, Best Buy and Sam's Club for the same price as a full priced CD, I very seldom bought them in stores because of the high prices. The major source for my classical music Cds has been from mail order clubs like BMG which I am a member. With the price break, CDs in stores will soon be very affordable but buying them by mail order will still be cheaper.

-Claude
 

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Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 09-05-2003, 04:49 PM:
 
The major record labels should have done this ten years ago.
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 09-05-2003, 05:49 PM:
 
Oh, good! Piracy is now a thing of the past!!

Everyone who has ever said "I'd buy more CDs if the prices were lower," time to talk with your wallet!
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 09-05-2003, 06:07 PM:
 

quote:

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Everyone who has ever said "I'd buy more CDs if the prices were lower," time to talk with your wallet!

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I'll may start buying again, but an number of things have to happen first.

First, the music companies actually have to distribute something I want to buy in the first place. The music these days is so bland, regurged and derivative that I have no desire buy anything. In spite of having DSL, I'm not downloading squat. I'm not even listening to the radio! Much of the last 3 to 5 years, the only CDs I've been spinning are all my old school music. The music industry has to "grow a pair" and take some commercial risks by signing innovative new talent. It has been around 14 years since the last time the rock genre was upended and cleaned out by bands like Nirvana. The pop, country, r&b and hip-hop genres have remained largely unchanged and prepetually regurged and retreaded since the mid to late 1980's. Again, change is very long overdue. I contend this is the primary cause for dwindling record industry revenues, not the damned internet.

On the price cuts, certain retailers must pass along those price cuts to customers (Sam Goodys, Tower, Musicland, Media Play, etc. often sell discs ABOVE MSRP, with CDs commanding $19 and over $20 levels). Wal-Mart and various other discounters sell censored/edited discs. There's no Best Buy here in town.

I can see buying a music-only CD for $10 or under. That's a reasonable price for uncompressed LPCM 2.0 content (provided if the content is any good). Still, DVD is one hell of a competitor against music CD. I bought the new "Animal House" DVD for only $12.99. The music folks need to learn how to compete against DVD. Otherwise my movie library is going to keep growing and growing while my music library remains unchanged.
 

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Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 09-05-2003, 06:22 PM:
 
Ken & Mike,

I do agree about the reduction of CD prices being ten years late in fact it is far too late for the mucic industry to curb illegal copying of music when it is very easy and cheaper to download them from the internet. It is only due to the tremendous loss of revenue from music downloads that had prompted Universal Music to drop it's CD prices. It is a step in the right direction but much too late to reverse the trand of the people who used to pay foll list for CDs until they found a less expensive way to purchase music,.

When ever I commute on the bus, I have noticed the majority of my fellow passangers who listen to music on portable CD players have been playing discs with music that were dowmloaded rather than original copies like the kind I listen to.

-Claude
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 09-05-2003, 10:08 PM:
 
I agree...it should have happened along time ago. However, I probably won't buy too many (if any) because the music on them is still basically garbage.
 

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Posted by Jason Burroughs (Member # 68) on 09-05-2003, 11:11 PM:
 
I think its too little, too late. Especially with the crap they're putting out these days.
 

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Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 09-05-2003, 11:16 PM:
 
I'd buy CD's at $10 and I can say that for sure because I buy them used all the time at that price.
 

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Posted by Mike Olpin (Member # 1115) on 09-06-2003, 03:23 PM:
 
I buy my music from the Apple Music Store online (coming soon to windows!).

It cost only 99 cents a song, and I can mix and mach them any way I like. I can preview the song with 30 second samples available for every song. Full albums cost 9.99.

Audio is AAC encoding.

Now that CDs may be falling under that price, I may return to buying physical CDs
 

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 09-06-2003, 03:34 PM:
 
Welcome back claude
 

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Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 09-06-2003, 05:44 PM:
 
Thank you, Gordon

-Claude
 

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Posted by Travis Hubrig (Member # 1745) on 09-06-2003, 08:25 PM:
 
I don't buy too many CDs, maybe 15 a year... I buy older music from the 70's or early 80's. I don't agree with anyone that says that music isn't changing. That's like saying movies aren't changing. Music is changing constantly... compare any rap or urban music to the same from ten years ago, It's a totally different type of music. Compare country music today to country music ten years ago, different.
On the other hand we aren't listening to Bill and Ted yet so it hasn't changed that dramatically.

There will always be the popular artists that come and go faster than the magazine covers that they are on, but there are many solid artists with extended careers too. There seems to become a point in life when 'new music' isn't good anymore... usually we say "the crap those kids listen to" Not too many people will enjoy all music that comes out... but I don't think it is hard to find some music and artists that you will enjoy.
 

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Posted by Edward Jurich (Member # 1787) on 09-06-2003, 09:31 PM:
 
-------------------------------------------------------
I have been buying CDs ever since they were
first introduced and felt the prices were high
but I still bought them because I love the
clarity of the sound compared to the long playing
records
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Actually, when CD's first came out, playing an LP and CD of the same recording, doing an A/B comparison showed the CD had some high end distortion the LP didn't. This wasn't just a lack of highs on the LP, in fact the high end on the LP was brighter. Some CD's still sound distorted to me. With analog recording, when you run the levels a little too high, you get a soft distortion. With digital, any level too high results in god awful distortion. I still use LP's and CD's. It's fun hunting around for old LP's finding stuff no longer available.
 

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Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 09-07-2003, 12:59 AM:
 
Edward,

I knew when I said I like CD for it's clarity of sound, I knew someone was going to dispute that statement. I have a good friend in Honolulu that wants nothing to do with CDs because be agrees with you that long playing records are much better when a A/B comparison test was made. The thing that use to drive me crazy with LPs was the click & pops when playing many that had dirty grooves not to mention the hiss and tracking noise. I still have most of my long play records. Some of my precious ones are original recordings by Arturo Toscanini and the NBC Symphony. He was still alive in the mid fifties and made a lot of recordngs when I was still in my teens. The one I cherish the most is all nine of Beethoven symphonies in a box set. This set is the first edition RCA Red Seal recordings and should be worth a lot of money today. Because I knew they were special, I hardly played them. Because I took very good care of them, they still look like new today. I used to skip lunch and with the money I saved, I bought records. Because I was saving lunch money my mother gave me for records, I used to be very thin and looked like a six foot bean pole. So far I have long play records of all of the music Beethoven composed, a lot of Mozart, Haydn, Bach and almost seventy complete operas. On top pd all that, I have a lot of soundtrack LPs

-Claude
 

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Posted by Gracia L. Babbidge (Member # 582) on 09-07-2003, 02:41 AM:
 
mmm... I love vinyl! One of my most prized records is a limited edition, picture vinyl copy of the soundtrack to Rocky Horror Picture Show.
My vinyl collection of albums by Queen is nearly complete too.

...oh so much music that I would like to have at my disposal, though very little of it being 'new'.
(As if much of the newer releases are really anything new anyway!)
 

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Posted by Edward Jurich (Member # 1787) on 09-08-2003, 12:44 PM:
 
There used to be an intermodulation distortion spec for equipment back in the analog days. This spec is no longer used. Intermodulation was usually measured by mixing more than one tone together, then measuring the distortion of each tone at the output of the equipment. Someone once told me that there would be no intermodulation distortion if the harmonic distortion is .05%. Well, it's easy to get .05% harmonic distortion on a signal if run through a filter and if you enjoy listening to a tone it's great. But if you are sampling bits of a complex wave (audio) then there is lost information and results in some form of distortion. The most common is caused by using low sampling rates resulting in a cymbal or crescendo sounding like shattering glass on a wall. I would like to see some form of intermodulation test on digital audio equipment to see what it's really doing. I know that burst tests were made on some "compressed digital" microwave systems used for audio transmission that resulted in ringing.
I enjoy listening to CD's. But, I enjoy listening to analog records as much if not more for the quality of sound. I can put up with some surface noise to enjoy good audio. It'll be great not having to pay as much for CD's, I might even buy more.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 09-08-2003, 05:15 PM:
 
The Apple store and other pay-per-download sites are mainly selling convenience rather than quality. Sure, Apple's "I-Tunes" may feature AAC encoding, but at a mere 128kb/s data rate it should not make the claim of "CD Quality".

That's also why I think it is kind of laughable the RIAA has put up such a fuss about the whole music downloading thing anyway. Most MP3 files found on the 'net are of significantly lesser quality than that of LCPM 2.0 on CD. Many sound like crap or at least no better than what you hear on radio. I can often get a better result attaching an MD player to my Yamaha receiver and recording stuff off the music only satellite channels of my DSS dish. If the music is something I really like I'll go and buy the CD. But the music industry just hasn't been putting much out there worth buying lately.

Suing downloaders and other nonsense like that is only going to make matters worse for the music industry. They have to hit it from a positive end and make the CDs attractive to buy. They have to compete in the marketplace. Right now they are largely not doing it.

The music industry must embrace new formats like SACD 5.1 and DVD-A's MLP process. They have to bundle goodies in with the discs. Remember vinyl LPs in the 1970's? They often came with big posters and decals. Not so these days. There's a lot the industry can do to make CDs more cool to buy. But they're trying to stay conservative and status quo with the current business model. And that 20 year old business model is no longer relevant. They can either change/adapt or go out of business. The Internet and who they sue will make little difference on that outcome.
 

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Posted by Mike Olpin (Member # 1115) on 09-08-2003, 06:15 PM:
 
Thats true. But I never said they were CD quality. I know they're nowhere near that. BUT I don't make enough money to go out and buy the whole John Mayer album when I only like one of his songs on it. Apple does a great job encoding these. They arent being encodied by a 14 year old who wouldnt know how to read a Frequency Responce chart. I know i'm getting lower quality, But the convienence is worth it.

Also, if its an artist I really like, I buy the CD. If I really really like 'em i'll buy the DVD. (You guys gotta check out the BNL compalation DVD,It's awsome).

I agree that cds should have more extras. I especially love the ones that come with bonus DVDs on them. Ben Folds Live has a great DVD bundled with the first few thousand copies.
 

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Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 09-08-2003, 06:47 PM:
 
Last month the Virgin Mega-store here in Times Square had a great sale on CDs and DVDs. They had some great titles on sale for $10.00 each. With music going at $19 dollars plus, I hardly bought albums. During this sale I bought about 19 albums.
 

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Posted by Tim Turner (Member # 1109) on 09-08-2003, 06:48 PM:
 
Those songs a iTunes...can they be burned onto CDRs to make audio CDs?
 

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Posted by Martin Brooks (Member # 1269) on 09-08-2003, 11:26 PM:
 
There are tons of CD titles (mainly midline product) that have been available for some time at $8 to $10. If you can't find this locally, order by mail. J&R Music World has tons of titles in this price range, including great classic recordings like "Kind of Blue" by Miles Davis at $8, which is the best-selling jazz title of all time.

Since newly remastered versions of the Dylan catalog are coming out next week, they have all the older versions at cheap prices also.

Check the following (although there's much more in the store than on the website): $8 CDs from JandR

But I do agree with those who state that industry is still putting out mainly junk. I don 't think this is totally the fault of the major labels, since the independent labels actually put out the majority of releases (even though they have the minority of sales) and they're not really putting out anything all that interesting either. I think it's a reflection of the times in which we live and the influence of MTV and rap.
 

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Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 09-09-2003, 01:16 AM:
 

quote:

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Suing downloaders and other nonsense like that is only going to make matters worse for the music industry. They have to hit it from a positive end and make the CDs attractive to buy. They have to compete in the marketplace. Right now they are largely not doing it.

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Thats true. But I never said they were CD quality

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Those songs a iTunes...can they be burned onto CDRs to make audio CDs?

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if the music industry would start releasing 5.1 mixes, I would most definitely turn my interests back more into music. With the crap on the market right now, it's a waste

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quote: Edward Jurich

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I could be wrong but, shopping at Walmart for Christmas, it looks like CD's cost more than ever.

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quote: Edward Jurich

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And a recent purchase of a CD I found will not play in my computer.

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Yeah, the music industry has been getting a lot more aggressive and savvy about copy protection schemes on standard "Red Book" CDs. A growing number of them (mainly lots of rap CDs) won't load at all in a standard PC. Others have nice little gotchas that happen when you try to copy them. For example, I tried to dub a copy of my Velvet Revolver CD for a friend, but the dubbed CD wound up with audio scrambled up in a very random manner.

Still, copy protection or not, the CDs have to at least be worth a listen much less a purchase. I bought the Velvet Revolver CD, but the friend who wanted a dub decided she could live without it. Most of my music purchases tend to happen on DVD now anyway. The latest: Peter Gabriel's music video collection --in DD 5.1 and DTS 5.1/24-96 no less (and with more songs than were featured on the "Shaking The Tree" greatest hits CD).
 

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Posted by Barry Martin (Member # 1376) on 12-30-2004, 01:31 AM:
 
I've always been told it is acceptable to make a copy for "backup" purposes, thus is it legal to not allow copying? And what about straight CD burners such as you would have installed in a Home Theater setup rather than a PC? Very stupid
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 12-30-2004, 08:10 AM:
 
A few points:

A "red book" CD cannot be copy protected. Copy-protected disks are just that--round, shiny disks which contain recorded music and which happen to play in most CD players. That doesn't make them CDs, and they cannot carry the "Compact Disc" trademark. So says Phillips (who owns the trademark rights). Most computer CD drives, older CD players, and some car CD players cannot play these "copy protected" disks. If anyone buys one of these, I _strongly_ recommend returning it to the store as defective (it is), unless there is some notation about the "copy protection" on the outer packaging. Note that these can still be copied (digitally, even) by using a CD player with an AES/EBU digital output (which doesn't pass SCMS information) and a CD burner with an AES/EBU digital input. The burned copy can then be copied at will and will also play in all types of CD players (as long as they play CD-Rs).

While it _is_ legal in the US to make copies of copyrighted material under certain circumstances (e.g. "fair use" and the provisions outlined in the "Audio Home Recording Act"), it is illegal (under the Digital Millenium Copyright Act--a truly horrible piece of legislation) to defeat most copy-protection schemes in attempt to excercise one's legal rights to copy the material. (side note: according to the wording in the DMCA, it is technically illegal to listen to FM stereo broadcasts!)

Disclaimer: I'm _not_ a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. I do not advocate piracy of any type, but I also don't consider burning copies of one's own CDs (or vinyl) for playback in a car or portable player to be piracy. Nor do I understand why the RIAA and friends think it's a crime to copy one's own recordings to digital playback devices or to make compilation CDs of one's favorite songs.

I should also point out that, historically, copy-protection schemes have only been effective against "casual" piracy, but are not effective at all against large-scale commercial pirates (which are what actually do cause lost sales).
 

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Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 12-30-2004, 10:27 AM:
 

quote:

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I've always been told it is acceptable to make a copy for "backup" purposes, thus is it legal to not allow copying? And what about straight CD burners such as you would have installed in a Home Theater setup rather than a PC? Very stupid [thumbsdown]

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