This is topic I Think Something Is Wrong With Our Schools in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 09-08-2003, 04:39 PM:
 
I was returning home from an inconvenience store with a cup of coffee about 1:45PM today. I observed a school bus dumping off a bunch of brats at that time. They were probably 7-9th graders. With the timing of how long it takes the bus to get out here added to the time it takes for the bus to be loaded at the school, I would guess school let out at about 1:15 PM. OK......

1. What happened to the days where the brats stayed and learned until the 3:15 bell?
2. I don't know about some other states, but we, in Washington State, are producing a bunch of kids that don't know how to read, write, add, subtract, divide, (but they know how to multiply ) and think. In otherwords, their scholastic standing is equivilant to a bunch of morons that don't have enough sense to come in out of the rain.

Here is something I found:

a. A dozen schools in four Skagit County school districts failed to meet federal standards for successful schools and many could face federal penalties if the trend continues.
b. The schools that literally flunked the mandated standards are:

Mount Vernon:
Lincoln Elementary School
Madison Elementary School
La Venture Middle School
Mount Baker Middle School
Mount Vernon High School (They flunked everything.)

Well, if they are not in school learning, how does one expect to produce an educated human being?

I just read this in the news:

LAKE STEVENS, Wash. -- Local teachers have voted to reject a contract offer and walk out in the second teacher strike in the state at the start of the school year. Key issues for the 400 teachers include salaries, health care and workload.

OK, here is another dumb one:

AUSTIN, Minn. -- Two teens accused of searching for a marijuana dealer dialed the ultimate wrong number - they called the Mower County Sheriff's cell phone. A few minutes later, the phone rang again. This time, Amazi let a deputy answer.

The caller again asked for a bag of marijuana, and the deputy - who called himself "Dupe" on the phone - arranged for a meeting at a convenience store an hour later.

"Apparently, they didn't know the meaning of 'Dupe' as in 'duped' either," Amazi said. "It's incredible."

The girls, ages 15 and 17, were arrested at the scene. Police said they found cash for the marijuana and drug paraphernalia on both girls. One was released to her parent and the other was turned over to a probation officer.

"Not only did they do something wrong, but they should have been in school," Amazi said.

My question is: How can someone be so stupid to call the same number twice looking for a bag of grass? They probably got the phone number off a shithouse wall.

Please don't get me wrong....There are many kids who want to learn. Many "good" kids from high school have admitted to me they are concerned about the educational standards. Some admitted to me there are teachers that are not qualified to teach the subject they are supposed to be teaching.

I rest my case.
 

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Posted by Jeff Stricker (Member # 224) on 09-08-2003, 05:09 PM:
 
Paul, the thing that bothers me is these young people are going to be 'running' things someday. I have alot of trepidation about what's going to happen to our standard of living and our ability to invent the new technologies that made the US such a great place. I see the same things here in Indiana and am afraid it isn't a geographical thing related to your area. Lots of lazy kids not wanting to strain themselves.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 09-08-2003, 05:29 PM:
 
The biggest problem is with the PARENTS and not so much the schools. For example, 80% of women incarcerated in Oklahoma are also single mothers (most are in jail over drug-related violations). With such a deplorable example being set, how can anyone expect the kids of these mothers to turn out decent?

I feel sorry for parents who are busting their ass to keep their kids on the straight path. Lazy/bad/absentee parents make shitbird kids, who in turn become very destructive influences on other kids despite efforts in parenting. The underlying problem or lowest common denominator in all of this is the perverted obsession our popular culture has in making bad people seem cool. The bad/tough kids at school always becomes the cool trailblazing ones to follow and emulate. Anyone who insists on getting good grades and staying free of drugs, tattoos, piercings, teenage parenthood and juvenile criminal convictions gets ridiculed as a "nerd" or even gets the hell beaten out of him. I don't condone what those idiots did at that school in Columbine. But I understand what inspired it.

The kids themselves need to be held accountable for any sorry shit they do instead of just getting more rehab or ritalin. Same goes for the parents.

As far as the education system goes, teachers should not be expected to be parents. Such an expectation is bullshit. Education reform is badly needed, but needed from the aspect of teachers getting paid worth a damn instead of starvation wages. Most any state has an education bureaucracy bloated with middle and upper management. Lots and lots of expensive white collar welfare is happening in that regard.

Right now most politicians have no balls to do anything about this problem. They don't want to fire their good-ol-boy buddies from high paying ghost employee jobs to streamline administration. And they sure as hell don't want to raise any property or ad valorem taxes to pay for any teacher pay raises, much less things like text books or the classroom light bill.

So we'll continue to stand by and watch the situation deteriorate. We're already exporting nearly all our manufacturing out of the country. Soon we'll be exporting many of our high tech white-collar jobs as well. IBM forecasts 3 million high tech industry jobs will leave America over the next 5 years to go to places like China and India.
 

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Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 09-08-2003, 05:54 PM:
 
I have mixed feelings on this subject.

First off, I don't think that the schools are responsible for the "dumbening" of today's kids.

Everything comes back to the parents. So many people have this idea that kids should learn everything from school and that the government is responsible for everything. People don't even raise their own kids anymore, just stick them in front of the TV and go do what you need to do. What do you think will happen to these kids? They are going to be lazy in everything they do. So, you have schools crammed full of these kids that arent interested in anything that isn't on TV or requires any use of imagination, intelligence or willpower.

A good example would be my 14 year old cousin. He came over this weekend while I was reading the FT forums. He looked at the monitor and said "why are you looking at pictures of guys?" It didn't even occur to him to actually READ what was on the page.

The bottom line is that it comes down to parents involvement. Very few kids are self-motivated enough to make straight A's in school. Those that are are constantly distracted by the kids who don't want to learn and are being forced to go.

As far as the schools are concerned, I think the biggest problem is that these slacker kids are being forced to go to school. I don't know of any other country where you are required to go to school until you are 18. Schools to teach the basics to everyone up to a certain age and then let the slackers go out and join the workforce and let the motivated students stay and learn so they can move up in society.

I consider myself educated, but I have very little common sense. I can't add or subtract in my head, but I can do more complicated math and algebra than the average forty year old. I love the saying about these kids are going to be running things someday. It has been around for so long and how many of you remember hearing it as a kid? The reality is that kids are by nature inexperienced and you say oh these dumb kids. My point is, kids don't have the life experience. I don't have the life experience.

My main points here are:

Schools are a valuable asset for those who want to learn.

Kids are lazy because the parents don't want to raise them to be any different and when they do turn out to be hoodlums they blame it on society instead of there own lazy parenting.

You can't blame kids for being inexperienced.

By the way, when I talk to a stupid kid, "I say 60 million years of mammalian evolution wasted."
 

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Posted by Martin Brooks (Member # 1269) on 09-08-2003, 11:53 PM:
 
Those kids aren't going to be running anything someday. Those kids, if they are working at all, will be working in the service economy: in hotels, fast food restaurants, gas stations, etc. However, there is still a large group of kids who care about education, have rich parents, and will go to the best colleges and become the future executives and leaders. It used to be that middle class and lower class parents pushed their kids to succeed where they had not. Frankly, I don 't see this much among Americans anymore. Where I do see it is among certain immigrant groups, like those of Asian and Indian origin.

There is almost no respect in our society for education. Our heroes are movie stars, athletes and the rich. In so many parts of the country, kids see nothing on the vista except gas stations, fast food restaurants and shopping malls. Culture is a reality TV show where people will do absolutely anything to humiliate themselves on television. Success is being a star of Girls Gone Wild. Well-meaning parents think taking their kid to a water park is high culture and that it's perfectly okay to let their 10-year-old dress like Brittany Spears.

I agree with those who believe that most of the fault is with the parents. But I have also been in schools where the teachers are barely literate. If a child doesn't come into first grade with pre-reading skills, which means having been read to, knowing the alphabet, having put crayon and pencil to paper and how to count to ten, that child is already lost and is unlikely to recover.

Making matters worse is the reliance on television and video games, which combined with high-sugar diets, is making our kids hyperactive and fat.

I always laugh when I read about "good schools" because in large measure, the only difference between the good schools and the bad, aside from the cosmetics, is that in the good schools, the kids have come to school better prepared and have parents who have a pretense of understanding and caring. So those kids already know how to read and do well on standardized tests. There's really no difference in the teaching.

It used to be that if you weren't much of a student, you could get a job in manufacturing and earn a decent living, especially if it was unionized. Now that there's little manufacturing left in this country, if you're not well educated, the only job market is minimum wage jobs. I believe that is going to be a very big problem for this country in coming years. IMHO, I believe that we will become more like a third-world country: instead of a large middle class, we'll have an upper class of rich people, a massive lower class and a small middle class.

But hopefully, I'm completely wrong, and just as we had a counter-culture in the 60s that took us out of the complacency of the 50s, they'll be a new counter-culture that once again embraces learning and education and it will once again be 'hip' to be smart.
 

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Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 09-09-2003, 12:19 AM:
 
My two youngest daughters (now 16 & 17) attended probably the best elementary school our local district had. Unfortunately, our junior high schools suck... there's no nicer way to put it. We have 3 of them, and the drug, violence and discipline problems tend to rotate through all 3. There was no way I'd put these kids in there. They'd heard of a local private school, and they both ASKED to go there.

So.... I'm chronically broke, but I've got a couple of well educated, and well-grounded kids. They're pulling nearly 4.0 averages in a no-nonsense school that bills itself as a "college prep" institution.

I've got no gripes... except that I'm still paying for the kooks who seem to think that holding up a community by striking at the last moment is something positive.
 

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Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 09-09-2003, 12:21 AM:
 

 

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Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 09-09-2003, 12:22 AM:
 
The two ends are becoming more extreme. The rich keep getting richer and the poor get poorer.

We were just talking in school about how a college degree is meaning less now because so many people are going to college. Even Phd's are having a hard time finding jobs.

Just like Martin said, we can't all be doctors and lawyers. I think it is more important to be passionate about what you are doing rather than how prestigious it is. Movie exhibition is not considers a prestigous job, but look at the people on here.
 

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Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 09-09-2003, 12:53 AM:
 

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I think it is more important to be passionate about what you are doing rather than how prestigious it is. Movie exhibition is not considers a prestigous job, but look at the people on here.

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I love the saying about these kids are going to be running things someday.

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The underlying problem or lowest common denominator in all of this is the perverted obsession our popular culture has in making bad people seem cool. The bad/tough kids at school always becomes the cool trailblazing ones to follow and emulate.

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It's not popular culture. Popular culture is just presenting all types & cashing in on the type to which the population responds.

This is sophomore psychology stuff: there's an interesting phenomenon concerning discrepancies of what folks believe is attractive *to others*, which starts becoming plain purely with surveys of body silhouettes shown to males & females.

You got your body types which run across a spectrum with these points:
ectomorph: skinny, angular type
mesomorph: middle-ish, toned type
endomorph: burly, tending even to fat type

Now please remember that in statistics things don't DISAPPEAR when they're not found in the densest part of the distribution, and that PERSONAL TASTES WHICH DIFFER ARE LEGITIMATE & STILL EXIST but are out on the tails of the curve.

Silhouettes of these body types along a scale were shown to (heterosexual) members of the opposite sex (silhouettes of males shown to females, silhouettes of females shown to males), & the people surveyed were asked to say which body type was the most attractive.

Then, the silhouettes were shown to members of the same sex (silhouettes of males shown to males, & females shown to females), & the respondents were asked to say which body type THEY THOUGHT THAT THE OPPOSITE SEX FOUND MOST ATTRACTIVE.

There's a huge discrepancy between what they *thought* others found attractive in their gender, & what the others said was attractive!

Females tended to find the most attractive male silhouette near the mesomorphic (middle) even tending slightly toward the ectomorphic (skinny).

But males tended to select that they THOUGHT that females thought the most attractive male silhouette was closest to the endomorphic!

So much for being wrong about what others think!

The interesting question is what made males *think* that burly was more attractive. The likelihood is that they of course had no benchmark themselves, & were using the criteria of THEIR OWN RESPONSES to body types. The response was usually that of intimidation by larger males, & they assumed that the males *they* were intimdated by were more attractive to the opposite sex.

So you'll find that males who are motivated by fear will tend to find hostile types "cool", whether as burly or just hostile. These people who are motivated by fear will tend to be the ones brought up in violent, abusive, and/or authoritarian environments.
 

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Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 09-09-2003, 07:30 AM:
 
My sister went to college to be a special education teacher... Teaching kids with learning difficulties. She seemed so happy as she worked thru the courses... I watched her making all her classroom decorations (by herself) with things that she purchased with her own money. After a few months of teaching, she left the public school system. Why? She couldn't afford to teach and live a normal life at the same time.

My sis is almost as cheap as I am! We dont waste money.

Public school teachers are among the lowest paid professional jobs, at least here in North Carolina. Class sizes are growing and spreading the teacher thin. Budget cuts in the systems are making things harder, too. I have a friend that teaches 6th grade elementary school. We go out now and then and invariably need to stop at Kmart, etc. to get school supplies. She keeps things on hand because some of the students are not prepared for classes. She tells me that one chronically unprepared kid who never had pencils or paper handy comes from a well-to-do family. His parents have been asked to supply the essentials, but do nothing.

So, in short:

Parents need to wake up. The public schools cant do it alone.
Legislators: Stop cutting school budgets.

This is not going political-- This is all I have to say.
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 09-09-2003, 02:40 PM:
 
Rant Mode Engaged.

Bruce, it seems as though there was a couple of 33 million dollar hand-outs over the last several years to "improve" the schools in Mount Vernon. Now they are saying something along the line they are 67 million dollars short and want more! It took several attempts for the levies to get the voter approval. The voters shot them down like flies until they were finally were approved, and they just squeaked by.

About four years ago, the school district wanted a 11 million dollar hand-out to build a new cushy football stadium. The voters responded with a

Then just lately, they wanted to tear down some old classrooms before new ones were built! That really didn't set too well with the voters. With the bonds passed, there has not been any improvements in the scholastic standings. In fact, it seems to be worse than it ever was.

State testing of the teachers was discussed more than once...but the teacher's union shot that idea down. I would guess they were afraid of finding that too many teachers are incompetent to be teaching their subjects. That concern has been said by some students as well.

In short, I think our public schools suck. I have a whole family full of school teachers. One retired as a vice-principal, the other retired as the head of the science department at his high school where he was teaching. He is now teaching at a college in a part-time status.

Alot of my younger brother's children are now school teachers as well and they love their jobs. But yet they all say there is only about 17 to 20% of the kids don't give a shit about learning anything is school. The other 80 to 83% do care, and those are the ones who are expressing alarm at the public school system.

I maintain it is not always the parents. People point their fingers too much and blame others instead of themselves.

I certainly hope this topic does not turn political. But I have this feeling it will.

Rant Mode disengaged.
 

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Posted by Peter Kerchinsky (Member # 1098) on 09-09-2003, 03:31 PM:
 
Paul
One thing I did notice in the news stories relating to the teachers strike in Lake Stevens and Marysville was that since there were no classes there WOULD be practice held for football players etc. That pisses me off. A teacher crosses a picket line just to hold football practice for those bozos. Where are the priorities in these schools? I agree with everyone on this thread that teachers are underpaid and that school districts piss money away on non-essentials now and again. Alot of teachers leave this state, and others, to go where the pay and benefits are better. I also think some of the blame for problems you and others bring up are the responsibility of parents. Are they demanding these kids stay home and do homework or study? Probably not. Why? They both have jobs and are probably not even home when their kids are. The kids are either watching TV (documented many times) or playing video games on their computers or out and about hanging out with their friends. Teachers can only do so much. I know from experience. I learned a hell of alot from an uncle of mine who MADE me study and do my homework 5 nights a week and I know I was a better student because of that.
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 09-10-2003, 01:14 AM:
 
Jeeze, Peter....I thought Mount Vernon High School was bad. Skidrow Wooly (Sedro Woolley) is by far the worst in Skagit County.

Only 40% of the 10th graders at MVHS can pass the reading tests, where as at the State Street High School in Sedro Woolley it is only 27%.

Math for MVHS is 26%, and in State Street High School is only 8%.
MVHS has a graduation rate of 81.6%, compared to a state average of 78.3%. The drop-out rate is 8.3%.

Now here is something that will make you puke:

The State Street High School in Sedro Woolley has a graduation rate of only 16.5%, compared to a state average of 78.3%. The dropout rate at State Street High School is 50.3%, compared to a statewide average of 5.0%.

Just wonderful.....

7 miles away form the State Street High School in Sedro Woolley is the Sedro Woolley High school. Much much better. Sedro Woolley High School has a graduation rate of 92.4%, compared to a state average of 78.3%. The dropout rate at this school is 3.6%, compared to a statewide average of 5.0%.

51% can read meet or exceed state averages in reading and 36% can perform math that will meet or exceed state averages.
...........................................

I did a research on Josh's high school in West Fargo, North Dakota. Theirs is based on the national average of 50%. Looks like a very good school to go to.

Language/Arts: 67%
Math: 69%
Reading: 65%
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I checked mine in Manitowoc, Wisconsin. (State Average)

Language/arts - 69%.
Math - 46%
Reading - 65%
20 students per teacher.

It was a very good school to attend when I was a teen-ager. We learned something. We were very proud of our teachers, administrators, and our school.
 

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Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 09-10-2003, 02:06 AM:
 
You all are right: are schools and education system in general is falling apart. I graduated from a private school in 2000, but even then I could see where things were going. Not only were students just out of control, but the teachers just didn't know what they were doing. Luckily, many veteran teachers were still there and knew how to teach and control a class. Unfortunately, some of those teachers are nearing retirement.

In Indiana, high school students need to also pass an exam to graduate. I found it sad that several students had a tough time passing. It was part of our standardized ISTEP test, and I found it pretty simple. I just couldn't believe so many had such a hard time.

This problem is not just the schools' fault however, but also the parents. Parents have become apathetic to the lives of their children. Goodness, just turn on TV early in the morning or in the afternoon and see the shows on. All these "out of control kids" or "my daughter is pregnant at 14" specials are just absurd. Why does stuff like this happen? Where are the parents.

Bottom line, teachers, administrators, and parents need to grow some backbone and show these kids who the boss is (no, not Tony Danza)! And of course, we need to elect good politicians to represent us in government. Heck, we just all need to VOTE in general. I find it hilarious my friends will talk bad about politicians and why things suck. However, I ask if they vote and they say, "No." For God's sake, VOTE!!!!

We're too busy watching American Idol, fighting some "war", and making fun of Bennifer! Instead, read the news, vote for good candidates, and care about the lives of our children. Heck, just start caring again. A thread on this topic is terrific because it shows just how much some of us still care.

AJG
 

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Posted by Gracia L. Babbidge (Member # 582) on 09-10-2003, 10:29 AM:
 
This morning, after getting my little brother on the bus to go to kindergarten (yes, huge age gap there), I was perusing one of yesterday's local newspapers. Apparently the state of Maine has one of the lowest percentages in the nation of high school seniors that attend college after graduation. National percentage was indicated to be 68%, state of Maine's listed as 55%.
A statistic that wasn't mentioned that I'm mildly curious about, is of that remaining 45% that don't bother with college - how many of them attended one of the regional vocational schools as part of their high school education? At my former high school (Mt. Ararat in Topsham), the trend was if you didn't intend to go to college, you spent half the day at 'Voc 10'. Interestingly enough, most of the students that took that option were male. The most popular classes offered there were ones dealing with automotive repair and restoration.

Some of the industries in Maine that employ large chunks of the population are ones that don't necessarily require anything above a junior high school level education, i.e. lumber/forrestry/paper production, fishing ('lobstering' in particular), potato farming - in essence a whole lot of serious manual labor. A lot of people native to the state grow up knowing they will really have to work to earn a living.
It's those people 'from away' that I wonder about!

[ 09-10-2003, 03:17 PM: Message edited by: Gracia L. Babbidge ]
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 09-10-2003, 05:59 PM:
 

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Popular culture is just presenting all types & cashing in on the type to which the population responds

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The interesting question is what made males *think* that burly was more attractive. The likelihood is that they of course had no benchmark themselves, & were using the criteria of THEIR OWN RESPONSES to body types. The response was usually that of intimidation by larger males, & they assumed that the males *they* were intimdated by were more attractive to the opposite sex.

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Our media dictates to us what is attractive. And it is built on who they make into heroes. Americans typically have to have winners and losers in just about every part of our lives. It is a somewhat unique aspect of our culture.

It is an American pasttime to place certain people high on pedestals. We have our billionaire athletes, sexy supermodels, movie stars, rock stars, corporate tycoons --we make heros out of them all. Our culture teaches us to ignore others who don't measure up to these ideals. And then we have to have others to treat like shit. I'm pretty sure words like geek, nerd, wimp, four-eyes, etc. are all American inventions. Many kids grow up knowing they'll never snag that carrot on a stick the media holds in front of all of us. Without proper grounding, they lose their way and lose hope. And then that's when you get all the bad grades, teenage crime and other terrible shit happening. Oh, of course, you have that bully factor too. Since there always has to be a "winner" somewhere, the tough kids in school usually take some perverse joy in humiliating and beating the shit out of the not-so-tough.

For those who are "disenfranchised" like the inner-city poor, well we really treat them like shit and blame just about all of our society's problems on them. If we took a step back and really looked at things carefully, the public might realize they lose much more to white collar crime than any of the violence stuff shown on the average TV newscast. Instead of buying an ADT alarm system for your house, there ought to be alarms on your checkbook for the businessmen looking to rob you blind. Renew any health insurance premiums lately?

"COPS" is a popular show. Michael Moore made the case the media doesn't know how to sell a "Corporate Cops" show. I don't think that's true. The media lives and dies by advertising dollars. They're not going to make shows about the crooks who pay their ad bills! In other words, the media won't bite the hand that feeds it.

The American public has its collective head up its ass. But to be positive about it, this is a problem we can change. One of the fundamental steps we have to take is having more compassion for other people.
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 09-17-2003, 11:51 PM:
 
HAH! I just read a Manhattan Institute study which was commissioned by Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation.

Indeed, Washington State schools are producing students dumber than a box of rocks. The graduation rate for public school students in Washington State ranks 39th amoung the 50 states.

According to the study released today by the Manhattan Institute, 66 percent of Washington students who entered high school as freshmen in the class of 2001 earned a high school diploma within the traditional four-year period. The nationwide rate was 70 percent.

The state with the highest graduation rate was North Dakota, with 89 percent. The lowest was Florida, with 56 percent.

Rates were highest in the Midwest (77 percent), followed by the Northeast (73 percent), the West (69 percent) and the South (65 percent).

As I stated before, something is wrong with out public schools up here.

According to the report, The institute also calculated the "college readiness" of the graduates by factoring in high school courses completed and scores on a national reading test. Nationwide, 32 percent of students in the class of 2001 left high school qualified to attend a four-year college, the institute said; in Washington State, the rate was 24 percent.

At least, we are not the dumbest.

Here is a list by states (in aphabetical order)
http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cr_baeo_t1.htm
 

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Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 09-18-2003, 12:21 AM:
 

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The lowest was Florida, with 56 percent.

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When I lived in Florida, I remember that the thing its residents had the most pride in about their state was the fact that it had NO state income tax. They'd boast about it all the time.

Then, they voted to begin a state lottery, from which all of the proceeds would go to education. That was because they had low test scores, high dropout rates, & underfunded education systems. That seems to have been engineered into a nice salvage yard-wide tire fire.
 

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Posted by Gracia L. Babbidge (Member # 582) on 09-18-2003, 10:30 AM:
 
Woohoo! 78% for Maine.
 

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Posted by Martin Brooks (Member # 1269) on 09-18-2003, 02:07 PM:
 
First of all, don't trust those graduation rates. To boost their rates, many school systems force poor students out of the schools, then don't count those students when they calculate their rates. Or, they made grading so easy that everyone graduates.

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I maintain it is not always the parents. People point their fingers too much and blame others instead of themselves.

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Martin, I think those figures I posted are not too far off the mark.

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If everyone points their finger at the parents, can you explain to me why certain areas have much lower stats? Surely, all parents cannot be "rottin' and unconcerned" in those areas.

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For the most part, I don't think it is the parent's fault.

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I still think public schools are a joke. By the looks of things, so do the parents. The same kids from the same block of the same city excel in the academic field in private schools much better than their counterparts in public schools.

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As I mentioned before, many parents think the public schools are a big joke, but yet they can't do anything about it.

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I agree - there are also thousands of mis-guided kids. That will always be and will never change. It only takes one rottin' apple to spoil the whole bushel. In this case, 20% of the brats and their rottin' parents out there make it look bad for the 80% of good kids and parents that are interested in a good school that provides a good education.

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There are public schools in my area and other parts of the country that flatly not capable to provide a good education. The public schools have incompetent teachers, and those theachers should be removed.

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As a graduate form a high school in the mid-west, I see a big difference in academic standards as compared to where I am now.

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For the most part, I don't think it is the parent's fault. There are millions of kids that are concerned about the quality of the education they receive in all parts of the country.

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I still think public schools are a joke. By the looks of things, so do the parents. The same kids from the same block of the same city excel in the academic field in private schools much better than their counterparts in public schools.

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Traditionally for many years the kids in the mid-west have always had a better scholastic standing than those in other parts of the country for the most part.

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Up here some schools do much better - even if they are 5 miles apart from one another. Same brats - different city. But they go to the same shopping mall, probably live in the nice parts of the city, go to the same movies at the same theatre and do the same things normal kids do - together. Their parents may even work together in a business somewhere.

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I think further investigation would show that there are substantial differences in the makeup of that student body. If not, then someone needs to figure out what the better school is doing right.
 

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Posted by Gracia L. Babbidge (Member # 582) on 09-21-2003, 03:04 AM:
 

I've encountered people that attended / graduated from one of the private, Catholic high schools in the area, who could either qualify as 'number than a box of rocks' or just plain ignorant.

I'm highly tempted to go on a rant here with my own observations and speculations, but I doubt that my trash-talking organized religions would go over well.
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 09-21-2003, 03:23 AM:
 
Some time ago, some parents who were very concerned about the quality (or lack of) the academic education in an area high school.

Holy smokes!!!!! The protest of the teacher's union, the teachers and administrators was almost impossible to comprehend.

I wonder what they have to hide?
 

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Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 09-21-2003, 09:05 AM:
 
If marijuana wasn't illegal, then the girls wouldn't have to call strangers for it and this whole mess could have been avoided.

When I was in high school, they started some sort of silly program called "Professional Development Days" where they would let us out of school as early as 11:30AM so that the teachers have the rest of the day to "plan their curriculum for the coming month". One of these would happen roughly every 5 weeks.

To compensate for the time lost in class because of this, they had the brilliant idea to add 7 minutes to the end of each school day. YAY! That REALLY gives us FOUR HOURS of instruction time back over the course of the month.

Everyone hated these. Parents, teachers, administrators, and even some students... because what is there to do at 11:30 in the morning? Why the hell did I even wake up and go to school? I don't know if they're still doing this, but last I heard, they were. Except everyone calls them Half Days and not "PDD".

They even had an idea that was shot down (thankfully!) where school would take place year-round, but with much shorter days like 3 or 4 hours, and start in the afternoon. I wonder who actually gathered up the courage to suggest that one!

=TMP=
 

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Posted by Geoffrey Weiss (Member # 882) on 09-21-2003, 11:57 AM:
 
Hi:

I taught high school for a while in a rural public high school in Kentucky. The classes were overcrowded (thirty students in some cases), many of the kids didn't want to be there and the administration (and teachers) had no power to FORCE kids to do anything because of the fear of lawsuits.

I actually had a kid refer to a successful lawsuit (from dubious injuries sustained during a field trip) as a "pay day." You can't track the kids and have classes full of motivated kids because of various legislative acts (including No Child Left Behind (bullshit))--again for fear of lawsuits.

Yet the teachers I worked with were some of the most professional people I've ever worked with in thirteen years of teaching--mostly at the college level.

Sure the unions protect their members in sometimes ridiculous ways because teachers are convenient targets for parents, legislators and the media who refuse to examine their own roles in the breakdown of public education.

I finally quit because they didn't need someone with a PhD in content. They needed someone with a grasp of the psychological manipulation strategies educators have had to come up with to manipulate students into learning when the parents don't send kids with a desire to learn and society doesn't value education.

It's a complex situation with no easy answers, unfortunately.
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 09-21-2003, 02:12 PM:
 
I forgot to add a sentence in my last post. The sentence I accidentally left out was supposed to say that when the parents wanted to attend a class to see what the hell is going on in a classroom, that's when the school board really flipped their cork.

Garcia pointed out one private school that did a miserable job in producing good educated kids. I would like to say it just proves that it is how the school is run....

Geoffrey pointed out a class size of 30 students. Those classes are much too large. When I was in school in the '50's, our class size was about 20.

I still think the computer issue has something to do with it. 100% of the classrooms are equipped with those things. I sometimes wonder if the teachers let the computers baby-sit the kids.

Please understand this... Just because a kid shows a poor academic performance does not mean he is a rotten' kid that comes from a rotten' set of parents. It could be just the other way around.

The high school I came from had special education classes that were basically run like private schools. The teachers were dedicated to the point where they would spend all the time that was necessary to help that student succeed.

In the high school I attended, a majority of teachers would give up their own personal time to help a student after school hours - on a one-to-one basis. Been there - more than once. Especially math! Math, English and American History were my worst subjects then.

Today, the teachers beat the kids out the door when the final bell rings. Maybe it is out of frustration for putting up with the crap they have to put up with. That should encompass everything.

We didn't have administrators that "padded" the student's grades so graduation was possible for them like the Seattle School board did. Those who do sleazy things like that should be booted out of the education system immediately without being placed on paid administrative leave.

Just because a person has a master's degree does not mean he/she is qualified to be a teacher. Seen that, too - especially this day and age.

Teachers and administrators bitch about their pay. Maybe it is justified, maybe not. They should be happy they have a job to begin with. As far as teacher's Strikes is concerned it can be devastating to the students who want to learn. In some parent’s eyes, it also damages the credibility of the schools and the teachers as well.
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 10-03-2003, 12:39 PM:
 
I just read an aticle in the Seattle PI today. Seems as though grade tampering was more wide-spread in Seattle Public High Schools than orginally thought.

This does not surprise me at all! Just look at what is graduationg and it wouldn't surprise you either.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/142393_franklin03.html

OK....My eyebrow was raised about 3 or 4 years ago when I read an article about dumb kids that still graduated from Mount Vernon High School. The administrators considered "lowering the standards" so more kids would graduate.

I wonder how the colleges fare on this? Ever listen to an interview of a football or basketball player on radio or TV? Many sound like a moron with an IQ of 80 or less.....
 

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