Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Leni Riefenstahl is dead

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Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 09-09-2003, 07:02 AM:

Leni Riefenstahl (the actress and subsequently director of Nazi propaganda films) has died aged 101. Link to obituary. I hesitate to say 'RIP', because she's sure as hell got some things to answer for, even if you accept her claim that she didn't personally support Hitler and was just doing a job of work (which I don't).

OK, perhaps she's not in the same league as the really nasty Nazi film-makers who consciously made films promoting the mass-extermination programmes (e.g. Veit Harlan, Wolfgang Leibeneiner and Fritz Hippler), but interestingly she's a lot better known than any of them. There was no press coverage in the UK whatsoever when Hippler died last year.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 09-09-2003, 09:59 AM:

It's a shame that her filmmaking talent was put to such terrible use. [Frown]

Yesterday's "The Rest of the Story" radio piece by commentator Paul Harvey featured the friendship that developed between competitors Jesse Owens of the USA and Luz Long of Germany, when Luz helped and encouraged Jesse in his qualifying round for the long jump in the 1936 Olympiad. Hitler was enraged at this public display sportsmanship toward a black man.

AFAIK, Luz Long died in combat during WWII.

http://espn.go.com/sportscentury/features/00016393.html

http://www.terra.com/specials/sportsicons/owens_en.html

Posted by Jeff Taylor (Member # 443) on 09-09-2003, 02:02 PM:

I saw a biographical piece on her some months ago on educational TV. I recall she was doing some kind of photojournalistic work in Africa. With her bleached blonde hair and 90 year old face she had to be one of the most frightening things I've seen in years. Even Hitler wouldn't have had an interest!

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 09-09-2003, 02:27 PM:

It was widely alleged that Hitler did have an interest. My memory of the details is quite vague (this was in a paper in Historical Journal of Film, Radio and Television I read many years ago as a student), but when R visited Hollywood in 1938 in an attempt to secure a US release for her Berlin Olympics film, one of the film industry trade unions (with strong Jewish links) published and circulated a leaflet headlined 'Is this woman Hitler's girlfriend?'. The rationale was that Hitler had promoted R over the head of Goebbels, who disliked non-fiction/documentary in preference for more subtle propaganda messages embedded in feature films, and that Hitler was not in the business of promoting relatively unknown film directors without some more significant motive.

Incidentally, when R visited the US (at the invitation of Avery Brundage of International Olympic Committee fame, who had strong Nazi sympathies), she was totally boycotted by all the major film industry executives but one... Walt Disney, whose anti-Semitic tendencies chimed with Hitler's entirely.

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 09-09-2003, 05:17 PM:

A lot of people claimed afterwards that they were just "doing their job", "not really interested in politics" or "following orders". But the truth is, there were a lot of other people who were not persecuted but still left or refused to cooperate. Those who did were just coward opportunists - like Riefenstahl. She may have been very talented, and the temptation to have all the means to fulfill her artistic dreams was too hard for her to resist.
At the same time, many others were persecuted or left because their convictions were stronger.
Yes, she was talented, but millions other people died in gas chambers and on the battlefield while she went on to live and shrug her shoulders. I hope she burns in hell for all eternity.

Posted by Christian Appelt (Member # 1067) on 09-09-2003, 06:06 PM:

She's dead, and that's all to it.
It's a funny coincidence, but I just finished reading the autobiography of writer/director Curt Siodmak (THE WOLF MAN, DONOVAN'S BRAIN), and if you like sharp and witty books, read this one. Siodmak tells all there is to say about how creative people were driven out of Germany after 1933, and he mentions how many second-rate actors, writers and directors were glad about that exodus - now it was their turn.

To me, Riefenstahl's films are as lifeless and boring as some of early Russian montage experiments. She never had anything to say, it's all surface and nothing below. Besides, she employed some of the the best German cameramen to get fascinating images and never gave them proper credit. What she knew, she learned from the director Arnold Fanck, and that she was a decent editor is nothing special in the history of cinema.
While hundreds of talented women all over the world edited fine films that live on, Ms. Riefenstahl used her talent to glorify Hitler. Since that time, she had been lying about almost anything she did. This has come to an end now. Anybody who claims that Riefenstahl's work of art has to be judged seperately from her political position overlooks the fact that ART always carries some kind of idea, emotion or vision. Riefenstahl's vision of "abstract beauty" has always been D.O.A. - now she is dead, and that is all to it.

P.S. This is the Siodmak book:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0810838702/qid=1063148985/sr=1-7/ref=sr_1_7/002-5308749-7524865?v=glance&s=books

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 09-09-2003, 06:22 PM:

I have very mixed feelings about this; she was a remarkable woman, still at work untill recent times, taking up diving at an age when most of us are retired, if not dead.

She made few films, and we can only speculate as to how her work may have developed if events in 1930s European history had turned out differently. However, I never felt able to accept her claim that she was simply documenting contemporary events.

What history may never forgive her for is not making films for the Nazis in their early days, but rufusing, many years later, to discuss this period in her life, or to express any regret for it.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 09-10-2003, 01:46 AM:

quote:
Siodmak tells all there is to say about how creative people were driven out of Germany after 1933, and he mentions how many second-rate actors, writers and directors were glad about that exodus - now it was their turn...

Off the top of my head I can only think of one prominent film-maker of the Weimar period who also worked in the Nazi film industry: G.W. Pabst. Is there anyone I'm missing?

I do agree with Christian that Riefenstahl has received a disproportionate amount of attention. She only directed three features in her entire career (four if you count Tag der Freiheit), one of which (Tiefland) was unfinished and another intended only for private showings to Nazi party members (Triumph des Willens), and her work was only seen by a very small proportion of the German population.

Compare that with the likes of Harlan and Leibeneiner, who, in implementing Goebbels' rather more subtle propaganda policy, ensured that virtually the entire German public was exposed to ideas such as extermination of anyone with an untreatable illness (Ich Klage an) and mass-murder of Jews (Jüd Suß). Yet those names are unknown to 99.9% of those who would recognise the name of Leni Riefenstahl.

Posted by Gerard S. Cohen (Member # 994) on 09-10-2003, 10:13 AM:

The New York Times obituary gives a much fuller account of her life, including her careers as a dancer in the style if Isadora Duncan, popular movie star in German mountain films, becoming director of such genre films, director of large scale propaganda and documentary films, still photographer of ethnographic themes with considerable travel in Africa, underwater photographer, writer of her autobiography and photographic books, etc.
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/10/obituaries/10RIEF.html

I found her autobiography most interesting, including her struggles as a woman in a male-dominated industry and male-chauvenist Nazi political system, apealing to Hitler to over-rule Goebles' attempts to restrain her actions and to limit her career. Her ability to organize as many as 36 and 52 camera crews to cover the 1936 Olympics and the staged Nazi propaganda films employing thousands of troops, in an era when few women anywhere in the world were permitted to direct, as well as her skill in editing in the Eisenstein manner, must attest to some character strengths.

She turned Nazi racial theories upside down by making photographic safaries to Africa and glorifying tribes in still and motion pictures, tribes whose cultures were even then almost extinct. This after some twenty years of near isolation from the world after being investigated and condemned for her role
as propagandist for Hitler.

She lived to be 101 years old, despite nearly dying in a plane crash. At the age of 71, she claimed to be 20 years younger, in order to qualify for a diver's license. And she was
active in writing, photographing and publishing almost to her final days.

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 09-10-2003, 12:50 PM:

quote:
She turned Nazi racial theories upside down by making photographic safaries to Africa and glorifying tribes in still and motion pictures, tribes whose cultures were even then almost extinct. This after some twenty years of near isolation from the world after being investigated and condemned for her role
as propagandist for Hitler

So what? That doesn`t change anything. It only tells us that she was a hollow opportunist who just did whatever she thought would make her popular at any stage of her life. As I said, think about the many people who were just as much or much more talented and who never had a chance.

Posted by Gerard S. Cohen (Member # 994) on 09-10-2003, 04:07 PM:

For the record, here's a list of Leni Riefenstahl's films and sources of information about her life and works, as found on the IMDb website:

(1950s) (1930s) (1920s)

Tiefland (1954) .... Martha, eine spanische Betteltänzerin
... aka Lowlands (1954) (USA)

S.O.S. Eisberg (1933) .... Ellen Lawrence
... aka S.O.S. Iceberg (1933) (USA)
Blaue Licht, Das (1932) .... Junta
... aka Blue Light, The (1934) (USA)
Weiße Rausch - Neue Wunder des Schneeschuhs, Der (1931) .... Leni
... aka Ski Chase (1938) (USA)
... aka White Flame, The (1931)
... aka White Intoxication, The (1938) (USA: literal English title)
Stürme über dem Mont Blanc (1930) .... Hella Armstrong
... aka Avalanche (1932) (USA)
... aka Storm Over Mont Blanc (1930)

Weiße Hölle vom Piz Palü, Die (1929) .... Maria Maioni
... aka White Hell of Pitz Palu (1930) (USA)
... aka White Hell of Pitz Palu, The (1929) (UK: literal English title)
Schicksal derer von Habsburg, Das (1928) .... Maria Vetsera
Große Sprung, Der (1927) .... Gita
... aka Big Jump, The (1927) (UK: literal English title)
Wege zu Kraft und Schönheit (1926)
... aka Ways to Strength and Beauty (1926) (International: English title)
Heilige Berg, Der (1926) .... Diotima
... aka Holy Mountain, The (1926)
... aka Sacred Mountain, The (1926)
Tragödie im Hause Habsburg (1924)
... aka Drama von Mayerling, Das (1924)
... aka Tragedy in the House of Hapsburg (1924)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Filmography as: Director,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Director - filmography
(2000s) (1950s) (1930s)

Impressionen unter Wasser (2002)
... aka Underwater Impressions (2002) (International: English title)

Tiefland (1954)
... aka Lowlands (1954) (USA)

Olympia 1. Teil - Fest der Völker (1938)
... aka Olympia 1. Teil - Götter des Stadions (1938)
... aka Olympia Part One: Festival of the Nations (1938)
... aka Olympia: The Film of the XI. Olympic Games Berlin 1936 (1938) (UK)
... aka Olympiad, The (1940) (USA)
Olympia 2. Teil - Fest der Schönheit (1938)
... aka Olympia Part Two: Festival of Beauty (1938)
... aka Olympia: The Film of the XI. Olympic Games, Part II (1938) (UK)
Tag der Freiheit - Unsere Wehrmacht (1935)
... aka Day of Freedom (1935) (USA: video box title)
... aka Nürnberg 1935 (1935) (Germany: subtitle)
Triumph des Willens (1934)
... aka Dokument vom Reichsparteitag 1934, Das (1934) (Germany: subtitle)
... aka Triumph of the Will (1934) (USA)
Sieg des Glaubens, Der (1933)
... aka Victory of the Faith (1933) (International: English title)
Blaue Licht, Das (1932)
... aka Blue Light, The (1934) (USA)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Filmography as: Editor, --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Editor - filmography
(2000s) (1950s) (1930s)

Impressionen unter Wasser (2002)
... aka Underwater Impressions (2002) (International: English title)

Tiefland (1954)
... aka Lowlands (1954) (USA)

Olympia 1. Teil - Fest der Völker (1938)
... aka Olympia 1. Teil - Götter des Stadions (1938)
... aka Olympia Part One: Festival of the Nations (1938)
... aka Olympia: The Film of the XI. Olympic Games Berlin 1936 (1938) (UK)
... aka Olympiad, The (1940) (USA)
Tag der Freiheit - Unsere Wehrmacht (1935)
... aka Day of Freedom (1935) (USA: video box title)
... aka Nürnberg 1935 (1935) (Germany: subtitle)
Triumph des Willens (1934) (uncredited)
... aka Dokument vom Reichsparteitag 1934, Das (1934) (Germany: subtitle)
... aka Triumph of the Will (1934) (USA)
Blaue Licht, Das (1932)
... aka Blue Light, The (1934) (USA)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Filmography as: Producer, --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Producer - filmography
(1950s) (1930s)

Tiefland (1954) (producer)
... aka Lowlands (1954) (USA)

Olympia 1. Teil - Fest der Völker (1938) (producer)
... aka Olympia 1. Teil - Götter des Stadions (1938)
... aka Olympia Part One: Festival of the Nations (1938)
... aka Olympia: The Film of the XI. Olympic Games Berlin 1936 (1938) (UK)
... aka Olympiad, The (1940) (USA)
Olympia 2. Teil - Fest der Schönheit (1938) (producer)
... aka Olympia Part Two: Festival of Beauty (1938)
... aka Olympia: The Film of the XI. Olympic Games, Part II (1938) (UK)
Tag der Freiheit - Unsere Wehrmacht (1935) (producer)
... aka Day of Freedom (1935) (USA: video box title)
... aka Nürnberg 1935 (1935) (Germany: subtitle)
Triumph des Willens (1934) (producer)
... aka Dokument vom Reichsparteitag 1934, Das (1934) (Germany: subtitle)
... aka Triumph of the Will (1934) (USA)
Blaue Licht, Das (1932) (producer)
... aka Blue Light, The (1934) (USA)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Filmography as: Writer, --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Writer - filmography
(1950s) (1930s)

Tiefland (1954)
... aka Lowlands (1954) (USA)

Olympia 1. Teil - Fest der Völker (1938)
... aka Olympia 1. Teil - Götter des Stadions (1938)
... aka Olympia Part One: Festival of the Nations (1938)
... aka Olympia: The Film of the XI. Olympic Games Berlin 1936 (1938) (UK)
... aka Olympiad, The (1940) (USA)
Olympia 2. Teil - Fest der Schönheit (1938)
... aka Olympia Part Two: Festival of Beauty (1938)
... aka Olympia: The Film of the XI. Olympic Games, Part II (1938) (UK)
Triumph des Willens (1934)
... aka Dokument vom Reichsparteitag 1934, Das (1934) (Germany: subtitle)
... aka Triumph of the Will (1934) (USA)
Blaue Licht, Das (1932) (story)
... aka Blue Light, The (1934) (USA)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Filmography as: Cinematographer,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cinematographer - filmography
(2000s) (1950s)

Impressionen unter Wasser (2002)
... aka Underwater Impressions (2002) (International: English title)

Tiefland (1954) (director of photography)
... aka Lowlands (1954) (USA)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Filmography as: Miscellaneous Crew,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Miscellaneous Crew - filmography

Last Days, The (1998) (archive source)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Filmography as: Herself
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Herself - filmography
(2000s) (1990s) (1970s) (1930s)

Impressionen unter Wasser (2002) (uncredited)
... aka Underwater Impressions (2002) (International: English title)
Hitler war ihr Schicksal - Leni Riefenstahl (2002) (TV) .... Herself
Ich wollte nie so alt werden - Eine persönliche Begegnung mit Leni Riefenstahl (2002) (TV) .... Herself
... aka Ich wollte nie so alt werden (2002) (TV) (Germany: short title)
Sandra Maischberger trifft Leni Riefenstahl (2002) (TV) .... Herself
... aka Maßlosigkeit, die in mir ist, Die (2002) (TV) (Germany)
Vom Hirschkäfer zum Hakenkreuz (2002)
... aka From Stag Beetle to Swastika (2002) (Europe: English title)
"Hitlers Frauen" (2001) (mini) TV Series .... Herself
... aka "Hitler's Women" (2001) (mini) (Australia)
Kino kolossal - Herkules, Maciste & Co (2000) (TV) (archive footage) .... Herself
Leni Riefenstahl im Sudan (2000) .... Herself

Nacht der Regisseure, Die (1995) (uncredited) .... Herself
... aka Night of the Filmmakers, The (1995)
Macht der Bilder: Leni Riefenstahl, Die (1993) .... Herself
... aka Power of the Image: Leni Riefenstahl, The (1993)
... aka Wonderful, Horrible Life of Leni Riefenstahl, The (1993)

Jeux de la XXIème olympiade (1977) .... Herself (spectator)
... aka Games of the XXI Olympiad (1977) (Canada: English title)
... aka Games of the XXI Olympiad Montreal 1976 (1977) (USA)

Olympia 1. Teil - Fest der Völker (1938) (uncredited) .... Nude dancer (prologue)
... aka Olympia 1. Teil - Götter des Stadions (1938)
... aka Olympia Part One: Festival of the Nations (1938)
... aka Olympia: The Film of the XI. Olympic Games Berlin 1936 (1938) (UK)
... aka Olympiad, The (1940) (USA)

[ 09-10-2003, 05:12 PM: Message edited by: Gerard S. Cohen ]

Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 09-11-2003, 12:55 AM:

Thank you Michael Schaffer for your replies! They are just! Hope the bitch rots in hell!

Posted by Ron Keillor (Member # 1790) on 09-11-2003, 02:58 AM:

Leo: Paul Wegener is the only other one with some importance that I can think of to add.

Posted by Gerard S. Cohen (Member # 994) on 09-11-2003, 06:37 PM:

Leni Riefenstahl directing Olympia, with cameraman Walter Frentz

Leni editing 400.000meters of film of the Olympic games in 18 months.

One of many still cameras photos of athletics by Leni.

Leni began her underwater photographing career at age 72 and published several books of diving photos.

Leni with Mick Jagger.

There are many websites devoted to Leni Riefenstahl. The most popular, with many photographs and information on her life and work, is probably
www.//leni-riefenstahl.de/eng/index.html

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 09-12-2003, 07:51 AM:

Leni wasn`t the only one who enjoyed travelling. Her good friend Adolf made sure that others also had the opportunity to visit exotic places, like Stalingrad. The guy on the left may have been a talented photographer too - but we will never know.

Posted by Christian Appelt (Member # 1067) on 09-13-2003, 12:15 PM:

I talked with two film students last night, and you wouldn`t believe how brainwashed some people can get.

They had swallowed all the lies about being "unpolitical", just wanting to "live for art`s sake" and whatever the Nazi propaganda artists used as excuses after the war.

"Leni Riefenstahl was no real Nazi", one of the students said, "otherwise they wouldn`t admire her in the United States and Japan".

The whole Nazi movement was fueled by fanaticism and distilled negative emotions. Look at the Reichsparteitag film (Triumph des Willens), and remember that this is the poison of chauvinism, hysteria and xenophobia that made possible what happened later.

Riefenstahl certainly was not dumb, and she knew very well what she was doing. She didn`t commit murder, but she was important in mixing the poisonous brew that Hitler and Goebbels fed to the German people.

I do not believe in capital punisment in times of peace, but if you ask me what I would have considered just, Riefenstahl should have had to answer at the Nuremberg trials. It did not happen, so instead of being hanged for constructing such "beautiful" propaganda, using gypsies from the concentration camp as extras for her film "Tiefland", Ms. Riefenstahl lived a long life and was ultimately free to practise her craft.

Back to these two film students: they didn`t like the idea of personal guilt, so they changed the theme: "Riefenstahl was one of the first important woman filmmakers", so she should be honored.

When I told them that most great film editors and many screenwriters were women before Ms. Riefenstahl even knew how to heil the Fuehrer, they said this was typical, a case of successful-woman-bashing.
"She always was a pariah while Veit Harlan went almost unharmed", was their next argument.
Well, director Veit Harlan DID "Jud Suess", but at least he tried after the war to take the responsibility, he didn`t blame dead Nazis.
I saw that the discussion went nowhere because these people didn`t like the idea of guilt and they did not know the facts.

Some people have fallen in love with the idea of an "unpolitical, naive woman filmmaker with great visual talent", and nothing, be it fact or moral question, can penetrate that protective image which Ms. Reiefnstahl spent creating during the last half century.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 09-13-2003, 01:54 PM:

I don't believe in mixing politics and film history togather as it gets far to convoluted. To flip the tables if Germany had one they probably then should have tried Frank Capra for his "Why we fight" propaganda films

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 09-13-2003, 02:12 PM:

Indeed there should be no mixup of politics and art. But in extreme situations like in dictatorships there is no way to avoid that. Everybody understood that very well during the NS period. It wasn`t like "oh, uh, yes, there happened to be racial laws and deportations and lots of other repressive measures, and a world war, and now that you mention it, I should have noticed really, but I somewhow didn`t" - everybody could see what was going on, at least to a certain extent.
During that period, it was practically impossible to be unpolitic, especially for people in the public light.

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 09-13-2003, 03:08 PM:

Huh? She made a film of goosestepping Nazis and for that she should be tried, maybe executed? Did I miss something, some other crime? Imprison or execute someone for a film about a bunch of bozos marching with flags? Oh wait...it's because it might promote war or hatred, right? Well good thing John Wayne is already in the ground or he'd be awaiting trial in The Hague, right? No? Oh right...propaganda like The Green Berets is okay because...well...because he's on our side and we are making the rules.

I guess the principles of free speech extend only to Americans or to those who promote images you agree with. This sort of thinking is just as disgusting as anything Leni did.

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 09-14-2003, 04:07 AM:

A lot of people left Germany because there was no freedom of speech anymore during the NS period while less talented people made big careers supporting the regime.
It plays no role if her films were actively promoting hatred or just showing blond girls at athletics. We are not talking about content but the fact that she was an active supporter of the dictatorship and gained a lot from her support and then after the war refused to reflect on her role.
That is actually the worst kind of character. Some of the Nazis at least stuck with their convictions and took the consequences. Others actually reflected on what had happened and what their role had been, like Albert Speer.