Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Britain's Railways are Shite

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Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 09-16-2003, 10:46 AM:

Here's a story which will encourage you all to leave your cars at home, save the planet and take to public transport. "We cannot end up banning all people from getting on trains because they look as if they have had a drink," said the GNER (train operating company) spokesman. Why the hell not? That is precisely what airlines do, because they realise that rampaging yobbos in an enclosed space is a direct danger to other passengers and crew. That is just as much as an issue on a train (an enclosed space travelling at high speed), IMHO.

And here's another one. That 0700 train from London is one that I sometimes pick up at York en route to Newcastle. Now wouldn't it have been fun if that set of points they cocked up had been on a bit of the track where the train goes at 100mph rather than 10? [evil]

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 09-16-2003, 01:20 PM:

"Chief executive of Network Rail John Armitt said he was "furious" the derailment had overshadowed the opening of new Channel Tunnel rail link."

[Confused]

Furious with who? What has it got to do with the rather unnecessary high speed rail link?

How can a section of line be handed back from a possession without problems like this being noticed?

"Passengers last night told how they considered hiding their children in train toilets after fighting broke out.

Fear of being hit by another train in the darkness forced some to leave the GNER train."

[Confused]

Does this last sentence make any sense to anyone? How is being on a train with a load of drunken yobs going to increase your chance of being hit by another train in total darkness.

National Express coaches do not allow drunken passengers to board, nor do they allow the taking of alcoholic drinks on board. I think it would be a good thing for the railways to do the same. Even the longest train journey in this country only lasts about 12 hours, most are less than four. Anyone who really cannot go this long without drinking alcohol should seek medical help.

I seldom travel by train now, I usually walk or go by bus. Behaviour like this seems to be quite common on night buses at the times when the nightclub type places turn out. I've had two quite nasty experiences in the last couple of years.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 09-16-2003, 04:45 PM:

quote:
Does this last sentence make any sense to anyone? How is being on a train with a load of drunken yobs going to increase your chance of being hit by another train in total darkness.

If you fear that, because the train you're on has stopped for an abnormal reason (i.e. someone pulling the emergency handle), that another one might be baring down on you at 100mph plus without its driver realising that there is a problem, I can see the motivation of people wanting to get off. Personally I'd only do that if I thought I could safely get well clear of the entire track area very quickly. If I'm going to be hit by a several hundred ton object travelling very quickly, I'd prefer that to be from inside a passenger train than standing on (or being anywhere close to) a railway line.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 09-16-2003, 05:44 PM:

From later news, it does indeed seem that the track was handed back to the operators without the pointwork having been restored to its correct state after some form of maintenance was carried out. If this is confirmed it is very bad.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 09-16-2003, 05:45 PM:

From later news, it does indeed seem that the track was handed back to the operators without the pointwork having been restored to its correct state after some form of maintenance was carried out. If this is confirmed it is very bad.

Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 09-16-2003, 09:29 PM:

Hi Leo

Here is another one of my great badventures that you will enjoy! [Big Grin]

During Desert Storm, I was deployed to Upper Heyford RAF. For the duration, we were billeted (housed) at the bed and breakfeast at the Peartree Roundabout in Oxford.

Anyhow, yours truly is both a museum and railroad enthusiast. And so it came that I heard about the Didcot Railroad Museum and made a trip on my day off.

Now this trip included having to walk a great distance from the hotel to the busstop, catching a bus to the train station in Oxford, and then taking the train to the museum.

Didcot is an interesting museum. Several locomotives are owned by individual groups, or so I understand, and they all fall under the museum which serves as an umbrella organization. Several locomotives were undergoing complete ground up restorations, while others were already operating. In fact, Didcot does have steam days for the public.

While there, I began chatting with a crew that was working on a locomotive. Chatting soon gave way to me getting my hands dirty. Before I knew it, a short trip turned into an all day adventure, and I stayed with the crew until way after sundown.

After work was finished for the day, I was invited to join the crew at the pub across from the museum. Not having had anything to eat since early morning, you might say that I downed a few pints on an empty stomache [Big Grin]

Feeling a wee bit happy [beer]

I somehow found my way back home safe and sound in the early hours of the morning without any incident in the exact opposite order that I took to the museum.

Seeing as I always lug my photography equipment around, I have some decent pics of the museum and the crew who I hung out with.

Good memories! [Big Grin]

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 09-16-2003, 09:43 PM:

There are times I wish I could take a train to some destinations instead of driving. In the United States, you pretty much have to live on the Eastern Seaboard between Washington, D.C. and Boston to be able to use rail travel conveniently at all. Driving is almost certain to be your only choice in most other places.

In Japan, you can go pretty much anywhere in the country using a fold-up bicycle and the expansive rail network.

Some people try to campaign to get passenger rail going in America. But the mismanagement of Amtrak and other issues of corruption and mismanagement in many other mass transit systems here pretty much kill it. I think it is something of an embarrasment that the United States has no real high-speed rail system (no, I don't think the Acela trains between D.C. and Boston count either).

It would be nice to be able to get on a train to take a long distance trip without worrying about hitting deer or falling asleep behind the wheel. I just got back from a driving trip to New Mexico and didn't get home until 2:30am. It took a half hour alone to clean the bug juice off just the front of my truck.

Posted by Ron Keillor (Member # 1790) on 09-16-2003, 10:38 PM:

good read, published this year
Marchant, Ian
PARALLEL LINES: Or Journeys on the Railway of Dreams
2003 Bloomsbury Publishing plc
looks at the many faces of rail fandom: the mileage collectors (who actually ride), modellers, restorers, etc. He takes a few trips to visit British rail film settings - The Titfield Thunderbolt, Brief Encounter, The Ladykillers, Trainspotting (! -- he is a smoker). I was tipped to this by the Times Book Club, Amazon.uk or another British source will probably be necessary. (Foyles, maybe if they have a website)

Posted by Dick Vaughan (Member # 540) on 09-17-2003, 02:11 AM:

Stephen said

quote:
Anyone who really cannot go this long without drinking alcohol should seek medical help.

NURSE !!!! [scream]

Back in 99 when I was travelling by train between Bradford and`London at least 3 times a week for endless meetings the ability to relax with a beer or two on the way back after a 12 hour day was very very welcome.

Posted by Thomas Hauerslev (Member # 566) on 09-17-2003, 02:19 AM:

I vote for the train, beer AND the nurse, provided she's good looking of course.

Cheers, Thomas [beer]

Posted by David Rigby (Member # 1301) on 09-17-2003, 05:12 AM:

From later news, it does indeed seem that the track was handed back to the operators without the pointwork having been restored to its correct state after some form of maintenance was carried out. If this is confirmed it is very bad.

But of course, the Potter's Bar rail crash was the result of vandalism!! Those Jarvis jokers should be going to prison for corporate manslaughter.

David

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 09-17-2003, 08:03 AM:

quote:
Some people try to campaign to get passenger rail going in America. But the mismanagement of Amtrak and other issues of corruption and mismanagement in many other mass transit systems here pretty much kill it.

And also I guess that the distances involved are just so much bigger than in any European country that for passenger transport, air is a better bet on virtually every count except environmental (and even then, I gather that aero engines are getting more fuel-efficient with every passing generation).

Didn't Amtrak come within a hair's breadth of going bust quite recently?

quote:
good read, published this year
Marchant, Ian
PARALLEL LINES: Or Journeys on the Railway of Dreams

Or, if your sense of humour is as sick as mine, this book is just the ticket if you've got a long journey ahead of you! They were even selling off copies for £1.99 at the newsagents on my local station a few weeks ago!

quote:
...the ability to relax with a beer or two on the way back after a 12 hour day was very very welcome.

Of course 99% of people who have a beer or two are never going to cause any harm to anyone, but the rogue 1% can make life really hell for the rest of us. If there were an absolute alcohol ban on trains I would miss having a beer on the way home from London meetings too, but if that's the price to pay for a zero tolerance approach to the yobs then I'd be willing to pay it. But the real solution would be to not let the yobs get on in the first place and if any do slip through the net, come down on them like a ton of bricks if they cause the slightest trouble. As Giuliani and Mallon have shown, 'zero tolerance' does work.

quote:
From later news, it does indeed seem that the track was handed back to the operators without the pointwork having been restored to its correct state after some form of maintenance was carried out. If this is confirmed it is very bad.

Absolutely! As it was the train hit the faulty points when it was crawling out of a station at walking pace - it probably wasn't even in second gear (if trains have second gears). But if those points had been a few miles up the line (e.g. at Hatfield), there could have been carnage. And what's more that 0700 train is usually very full, too: there is often standing room only by the time it gets to York.

Edit: Here is another gory train book, about the first person to die in a rail accident. And here is one about railways in early film - most of it is quite academic and not very well written, but it includes a nice chapter on The General.

[ 09-17-2003, 10:44 AM: Message edited by: Leo Enticknap ]

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 09-17-2003, 03:59 PM:

Leo, there have been quite a few books on the subject, the best known probably being 'Red for Danger' by L.T.C. Rolt, first published sometime in the '50s, I think.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 09-18-2003, 06:33 AM:

This gets worse and worse. According to yesterday's Telegraph the derailment wasn't just a case of 'the pointwork not being restored to its correct state' after the maintenance procedure - Jarvis didn't replace the rail at all!

quote:
Tony Blair's efforts to inspire rail passengers fell apart yesterday when the launch of Britain's first high-speed line was overshadowed by a derailment because maintenance contractors had failed to replace a section of track. A GNER express came off the tracks because a five-foot length of rail was missing after overnight repairs. [...] The 7am Glasgow-bound express was leaving the station when the driver noticed that a section of rail was missing. He braked immediately, but could not prevent the locomotive and leading coach coming off the track at about 10mph.

No doubt Jarvis will say that the rail was stolen... [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 09-18-2003, 07:10 AM:

Leo wrote:

quote:
Britain's Railways are Shite

Yep, that's a fair assessment.

The Chiltern service from Marylebone to Birmingham Snow hill, which I use several times each year is pretty good.

I seldom use any other Inter City type services because they are far too expensive.

I refuse to use Virgin under any circumstances.

The local services are mostly, as you say, shite.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 09-18-2003, 07:58 AM:

Actually I think Virgin is about the only apspect of British railways which has steadily improved over the last few years. When I started commuting (usually two days per week, sometimes three) from York to Newcastle GNER was more or less OK and Virgin was a bad joke. About the only time I ever went on one was when it turned up several hours late, which just happened to be when I was walking onto the platform. And the trains themselves were something out of Eastern Europe in the 1970s - threadbare, dirty, cold in winter, an oven in summer, and with locomotives which spewed out noxious Diesel smoke so dense that your clothes would smell of it until several close encounters with the washing machine later.

The trains have now been replaced with ones that are a lot faster and reliable: they are clean, bright and air conditioned inside, and the only thing I'd say against them is that the legroom is not exactly generous. They are also more or less on time more often than not. GNER, on the other hand, has gone steadily downhill both in terms of reliability and conditions on the trains themselves. Both companies offer advance-purchase tickets which, if you can be organised to book them and can accept the inflexibility of going on a specific train, work out at about the same cost as driving (£18). The 'turn up and go' ticket (£26) is around 50% more.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 09-18-2003, 02:56 PM: