Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Roy mauled by Tiger

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Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 10-04-2003, 01:22 AM:

Has anyone heard?

The latest here in Vegas is that Roy from the act "Siegfried and Roy" was mauled by one of his tigers this evening. He was at UMC hospital in critical condition - the last I heard.

I am sure it will be in the paper tomorrow.

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 10-04-2003, 01:58 AM:

It is on the internet even today!

Posted by Ron Yost (Member # 1850) on 10-04-2003, 07:54 AM:

Dragged off the stage by the neck! So says the news.

Ron Yost

Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 10-04-2003, 10:55 AM:

It's already on the tv news. That's sad because they are good entertainers. I always wondered when something like this was going to happen, though. When you work with wild animals it's only a matter of time before one mistakes something as an aggressive action and attacks.

Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 10-04-2003, 07:52 PM:

Wild animals should never NEVER perform !

and that's it !

Per

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 10-04-2003, 08:10 PM:

Nah, don't think so. As long as they are treated right and with respect and not abused, they are to be enjoyed with awe.

Most people would never have the chance to see these beautiful animals without such "shows".

>>> Phil

Posted by Roger Katz (Member # 1625) on 10-05-2003, 07:10 PM:

Good for the tiger! It's disgusting the way people manipulate animals for entertainment purposes.

Posted by Bob Maar (Member # 763) on 10-05-2003, 07:39 PM:

If you gave the tigers a Beefeater Gin Martini or twobefore the show the outcome would have been different. [Smile]

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 10-05-2003, 07:57 PM:

Instead of yapping, the unenlightened need to do their research and see how much Siegfried and Roy have contributed to the preservation of the species and the welfare of the animals. These animals are more well off and taken care of than most household dogs and cats and other "pets".

Again, their unbelievable show (and ticket cost) has allowed many people to enjoy and gain respect for these great animals and has allowed them to contribute to the welfare of all animals.

I respect them and their work both on stage and off.

>>> Phil

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 10-05-2003, 09:17 PM:

The sad thing is the future of the Siegfried and Roy show is now in doubt. Of the known white tigers in existence, Siegfried and Roy have something like 25% of the world's population. Every tiger species on the planet is greatly threatened with extinction. Rampant overpopulation in India is dooming the Bengal Tiger. The Siberian Tiger is also in great danger for people consuming tiger habitat and the grossly perverted poaching business which profits off demand from the orient. Weathly businessmen in far east countries still think it is a great thing of status to have a bowl of tiger penis soup. [fu]

As much as some like to make gay jokes about Siegfried and Roy, and just generally put them down, those two fellows do more to keep tigers in the minds of the public and make us care about their preservation.

Many of the cultures in the far east are very backward, under educated and destructively selfish (one of the reasons why AIDS is making such a horrible burn through that area of the world now). Too bad this is where nearly all of the world's wild tigers live. Pretty soon the only living tigers may be captive ones. This is also true of several other big cat species (like the cheetah, which is also now very endangered).

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 10-05-2003, 09:43 PM:

Tiger gives Roy his comeuppance and Rush being investigated for drugs. All in all a pretty good week.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 10-05-2003, 09:49 PM:

Roy can certainly stand on his own with out any "tiger" or media help...

>>> Phil

Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 10-05-2003, 09:49 PM:

There is a vacant apartment in New York.....after a tiger and alligator where evicted......
I have seen the S & R show and they rate among the best of the offerings of Las Vegas.......30 + years without a serious injury proves they have been in the bonus round for a long time. We where going to catch it last year but the person we invited was too scared to see them in an unprotected setting on stage.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 10-05-2003, 09:51 PM:

I saw that Richard... another example of the abuse of animals...

I hope they fry that asshole.

>>> Phil

Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 10-05-2003, 09:58 PM:

Quick reader [Smile]

The guy is still in the hospital with the "dog bite" he said he received........

Posted by Dave Williams (Member # 299) on 10-05-2003, 10:02 PM:

JUST IN...

The Siegfried and Roy show is officially cancelled permanantly, and the entire staff of more than 250 has been laid off.

Roy Horn remains in critical but stable condition. It is not yet known if he will survive.

And as for Rush Limbaugh bieng investigated for drugs as a good thing? Lets put that one in the political arena and keep it out of this one.

Dave

Posted by Floyd Justin Newton (Member # 1316) on 10-05-2003, 10:19 PM:

Well said, Dave. [Frown]

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 10-05-2003, 10:32 PM:

I agree Dave. Also, it's a wake-up call to all that think they have a "secure" job. That is too bad not only for Roy, but for all those that took the risk of being a crew member.

>>> Phil

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 10-05-2003, 10:52 PM:

According to what I have read on FoxNews.com, the tiqer in question was a "rookie". Roy was on stage telling the audience that the tiger, "Ceasar" was making his on-stage debut.

As to Roy's condition, I heard on NPR news that Roy is still in critical condition but he is "communicative". Doctors aren't saying whether he is going to make it or not but the way I see it, he's making progress, at least. Cross our fingers. Hope and pray.

Keeping wild animals in captivity is a double-edged sword, IMO.
Yes, they should be allowed to be free whenever possible. There's habitat destruction, poaching, pollution and all those things KILLING animals in the wild. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a way to stop that.

When populations get low a problem arises with "shallow gene pools". There comes a time when there aren't enough animals to provide genetic diversity in the wild. Eventually, inbreeding will kill off the rest of the population. This is exactly what's happening to cheetahs right now. The way it looks right now, we could cordon off huge tracts of land and turn them into "cheeta sancuaries" and it STILL wouldn't help. Even if we could wave a magic wand and remove all human influence, the birth rate of cheetahs in the wild will not be able to sustain the population. Most young cheetahs in the wild die at (or near) birth due to congenital defects brought on by inbreeding. The ONLY way to reverse this is to use the genetic material from cheetahs in captivity to "reseed" the geene pool in the wild. Problem is that they may be too far gone to help. Check out www.cheetah.org

So... Tigers... Let's hope they aren't too far gone. Keeping some tigers MAY be what saves them from going the way of the cheetah. The way I see it, shows like Sigfried & Roy do two things: First, they raise awareness of the problem. If people see animals for real they might think about keeping them around. Second, some of the money raised from the shows could go toward conservation.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 10-06-2003, 01:37 AM:

POST DELETED BY MODERATOR

User failure to follow mandatory FAQ requirements for posting links to news articles.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 10-06-2003, 01:42 AM:

Better yet, according to the caption below the tiger photo, there are "About 20,000 tigers are kept privately in the US".

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 10-06-2003, 01:55 AM:

Don't ya just love the way news gets reported? [Roll Eyes]

First of all, the S&R show is not "permanently" cancelled at this point. For now, all performances through the end of the year have been cancelled "indefinitely." MGM-Mirage is waiting to see Roy's prognosis before deciding what to do with the show, which was just signed to a lifetime contract a couple of years ago. The 250+ cast and crew were told yesterday to consider other employment opportunities, probably good advice given the uncertainty of the situation. The show is going to be down for what looks like quite a while, but it is not permanently cancelled--at least not yet. We should know more in the next few days.

Second, the cat in question is named "Montecore" and has been with the show for several years. The 7-year-old cat was born into the show, and is certainly not a "rookie." In the act Roy does state each night that this is this cat's first time on stage, but that is just a line designed to get an "ooh's and ah's" reaction from the audience. Montecore is one of about 50 cats trained for use in the show--the animals are rotated through the approximately 20 appearance slots in each show.

Here's the latest Las Vegas Review-Journal article: TIGER ATTACK: Roy's Injuries 'Severe'

Magician remains in critical condition after suffering stroke, undergoing second surgery

By MIKE WEATHERFORD
REVIEW-JOURNAL

The official status of superstar magician Roy Horn never changed from "critical but stable" Saturday, one day after he was badly mauled by a white tiger during a performance at The Mirage.

But among his circle of friends and colleagues, the cautious optimism that first emerged late Friday night took a downward turn over the course of the day.

Horn's initial surgery at University Medical Center Trauma Center ended about 11:30 p.m. Friday. A hospital source said Horn had to be resuscitated during that surgery.

Horn, who turned 59 Friday, was moved to another part of the hospital about 12:40 a.m. Saturday.

A hospital source said Horn subsequently suffered a stroke and was returned to surgery about 9:30 a.m. to relieve severe pressure on his brain.

MGM Mirage spokesman Alan Feldman declined to discuss specifics of Horn's condition or treatment. "Updates on an hour-by-hour basis are not going to lead to clarity," he said.

Feldman said Horn, who with his partner Siegfried Fischbacher has performed in Las Vegas for more than three decades, remained in critical but stable condition Saturday.

Feldman acknowledged the injuries were "extremely severe" and involved a lot of blood loss. He said it could be two or three days before doctors know the full impact of the injuries.

"When these things happen, you need to spend some time with the patient to know what the long-term implications will be," Feldman said.

Late Saturday night, Feldman said there was some encouraging news that had begun in the afternoon and continued into the evening. "Roy has been able to have some limited communication," he said.

He cautioned that the performer's condition was subject to change. "We take this hour by hour."

Fischbacher released a written statement Saturday.

"For more than four decades, I have had the great privilege of standing at the side of this remarkable man, and I will continue to do so during this very challenging time.

"We are grateful and overwhelmed with the tremendous support we have received from around the world, and ask for your continued prayers and reflection," he said.

The attack occurred about 45 minutes into the magicians' 7:30 p.m. show before 1,503 people.

Montecore, a 7-year-old white tiger, refused a command to lie down and then clamped his jaws on Horn's right arm.

The native of Germany repeatedly struck the animal in the head with a microphone. The male tiger then lunged at Horn, clamped its jaws around his neck and pulled him out of the audience's view.

"There were a couple of gasps, and people thought it was part of the act, and then it was real quiet," said audience member Paul D'Antonio, who sat about 15 feet from the stage.

About five minutes after the attack, a visibly shaken Fischbacher returned to the stage and told audience members the remainder of the show was canceled.

Emergency crews were dispatched to The Mirage at 8:21 p.m. Paramedics with Southwest Ambulance were on the scene of the attack by 8:25 p.m.

Clark County Fire Department spokesman Bob Leinbach said paramedics found Horn suffering from severe blood loss and labored breathing.

By the time the ambulance arrived at the hospital, paramedics had stopped the massive bleeding and Horn was rushed into surgery.

Friends began flocking to the hospital while Horn underwent surgery. The initial procedure ended about 11:30 p.m. Friday.

Friends and associates were stunned by the injury to the charming, happy-go-lucky performer who seemed to have an uncanny communication with animals.

"Roy is fearless," said Bernie Yuman, the longtime personal manager of Siegfried & Roy. Regardless, "he's always cognizant of the fact that anything can occur."

Lynette Chappell, the duo's longtime leading lady, was among those waiting for news at the Trauma Center on Friday night.

Chappell said she had completed her role in the opening segment of the show and was about to get on a treadmill in her dressing room when she heard the commotion in the backstage hallways.

She said the tiger attack was "not malicious, just an accident."

Just before midnight Friday, she and others welcomed news that Horn was out of surgery and breathing on his own.

"I'll take any positive news I can get," Chappell said.

Fellow magician Lance Burton also was on hand at the hospital.

Burton said he had received eight cell phone messages within minutes of finishing his own show at the Monte Carlo, including one from a magician in Singapore.

Burton noted that Siegfried & Roy opened their landmark revue "Beyond Belief" at the Frontier in November 1981, just six months before he came to town.

"They're the guys who opened the door to magic," he said.

Phil Misiura, the show's general manager, said he found no fault with the first-aid measures taken backstage before paramedics arrived.

The backstage area is equipped with first-aid kits and certain crew members were trained in emergency procedures, but had never rehearsed specific drills for animal attacks, Misiura said.

More than 250 people who work on the show, including cast and stagehands, met with show producers in the showroom Saturday evening.

The affected employees, many of whom have been with the show since it opened Feb. 1, 1990, were told the show will be closed indefinitely.

"We wanted to be as honest as we could," Feldman said. "They may very well need to consider other options in their careers."

MGM Mirage Chairman Terry Lanni released a statement saying Siegfried & Roy are "so much more than the stars of The Mirage, they are the very heart of our resort."

Those who work with tigers and other animals say the plush toys in the gift shop and the gleaming smiles onstage can make people forget an important fact.

"The big cats are always a wild animal, even with all the gentle training and habit-forming techniques," said Dirk Arthur, one of several illusionists who works with exotic cats in a niche of show business that Horn pioneered.

Arthur performs downtown at the Plaza with eight tigers and leopards of his own.

"I often equate it to being a race-car driver," he says. "You know it's dangerous, but you try to make it as safe as you can through layers of safety and rituals of checks and double checks."

Horn is known for being strict with trainers and intolerant of "anything rough or negative," Arthur says.

The attack came during a portion of the show when Roy parades the tiger across the stage on a leash. Though the animals can weigh 500 pounds, Arthur says a skilled trainer needs no more than the leash to restrain them.

"Roy is an expert at using sideways leverage on the front feet," he says.

Arthur echoes Horn's career-long philosophy when he says, "You blame yourself. Never the cat."

Montecore is featured prominently in Siegfried & Roy's photo calendar and the television commercial for the Secret Garden of Siegfried & Roy.

He previously was known as one of the most cooperative animals and "a favorite of most of the handlers," said a source close to the operation.

The tiger is being housed in its usual quarters.

About 50 lions and tigers are housed behind the Secret Garden of Siegfried & Roy public attraction at The Mirage.

That well-scrubbed facility features indoor-outdoor runs, shower stalls for animal grooming and a "maternity ward" to further Horn's cradle-to-grave philosophy of animal handling.

If a person is there at the birth, Horn once explained, both mother and cub accept that person as a surrogate father.

Horn's zenlike empathy with animals is a cultivated theme of the show, which features film footage of him cavorting with tigers in pools at the "Jungle Palace" Siegfried & Roy once shared north of Vegas Drive near Decatur Boulevard.

Fischbacher now lives in Spanish Trail, while Horn divides his time between the Jungle Palace and "Little Bavaria," a larger spread near the Santa Fe.

######

Posted by Steven Privett (Member # 718) on 10-06-2003, 05:21 PM:

Do you think the tiger will be charged with a hate crime?

Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 10-06-2003, 05:29 PM:

You mean, a hatred towards humans, or just trainers?

Posted by Mike Heenan (Member # 392) on 10-06-2003, 05:59 PM:

Here's another spin of the incident, from wftv.com

http://www.wftv.com/news/2533576/detail.html

Roy Horn Of 'Siegfried & Roy' Critical But Improving

POSTED: 6:52 a.m. EDT October 6, 2003
UPDATED: 4:42 p.m. EDT October 6, 2003

LAS VEGAS -- Even as the blood was pouring from his neck, Roy Horn, of Siegfried & Roy, reportedly told paramedics not to kill the tiger that attacked him.

Report On Roy Horn's Medical Condition

Horn remains in critical condition after being mauled by a tiger during Friday night's performance in Las Vegas.

But it could be days before doctors have a prognosis for him.

More details are emerging about the attack occurred halfway through Friday night's performance at The Mirage hotel-casino.

The New York Daily News reports Roy was still conscious when emergency crews arrived.

A family friend says Roy told paramedics "do not kill the cat."

His manager says Roy doesn't blame the tiger. Bernie Yuman says "the last place Roy would place blame would be with the animal."

The white Siberian has been a cooperative cat. But on Friday night, he didn't want to walk in the right direction. So Roy hit him on the cheek with his microphone five times.

After the fifth time, the tiger, which weighs about 600 pounds, attacked. The animal grabbed at Horn's arm, causing the entertainer to stumble.

The tiger then lunged at Horn, who tried to beat the animal away with the microphone. It bit into the left side of Horn's neck and dragged him off stage by the neck. The attack barely missed severing Horn's carotid artery.

The stage crew used fire extinguishers to distract the tiger and free him. He was rushed to a hospital and went into surgery.

Horn's undergone several surgeries since Friday's attack.

Yuman says the tiger is in a holding pen at the hotel. But it's not clear what will ultimately happen to it.

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Hundreds of people gathered Sunday night for a candlelight vigil outside the hospital.

Many of the more than 200 people who went to the vigil were show employees who came to support Roy.

Those who attended chanted, "We love you Roy," and signed a giant get-well card.

MGM Mirage officials also delivered some good news at the vigil.

Roy was able to move his hands and feet Sunday, a sign that his condition is improving.

That's something officials haven't been able to say since he was mauled by the tiger Friday night.

But many of the employees were also upset about losing their jobs. MGM Mirage officials have promised to help them find new employment.

The Future Of 'Siegfried & Roy'

If you haven't already caught "Siegfried & Roy" in Las Vegas, most likely, you'll never get the chance again.

Shortly after his partner was dragged behind the stage by that tiger Friday night, Siegfried Fischbacher came onto the stage and told the packed house the performance was canceled.

Later, officials at the Mirage Hotel said the show's canceled indefinitely.

Siegfried and Roy signed a lifetime contract with The Mirage two years ago. They perform six shows a week, 44 weeks out of the year. They've been onstage in Las Vegas for more than 35 years, starting at the Tropicana.

Siegfried and Roy met in 1957, when both were entertaining on a cruise ship.

--------------------

Notice how in this article, it is said the tiger didn't walk in the right direction, so he hit it 5 times with the microphone, then it attacked. In other versions, it's the tiger attacked, then he hit it.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-06-2003, 06:13 PM:

Paul, I think Steven meant "Hate Crime" since it is widely assumed (or known?) that Roy is gay. I have no idea if he is or not, don't really care.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 10-06-2003, 06:26 PM:

What will become of the tiger? Will it be destroyed?

I'm asking because in some cultures there is a concern that the animal has acquired "a taste for human blood" and should thus be destroyed to eliminate the threat to humans.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-06-2003, 06:44 PM:

Wouldn't it be illegal to destroy it since it is endangered? Anyway, I hope they don't destroy it and I imagine that Roy wouldn't want it destroyed either. But they really should take some precautions with that one.

Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 10-06-2003, 06:53 PM:

From what I understand the first words out of Roy's mouth in the ambulance was "Please don't kill the cat, it wasn't his fault".

The tiger is currently being held at the Mirage (away from the other cats).

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 10-06-2003, 07:41 PM:

quote:
Notice how in this article, it is said the tiger didn't walk in the right direction, so he hit it 5 times with the microphone, then it attacked. In other versions, it's the tiger attacked, then he hit it.

Actually the article says that he hit the animal before AND after. The first time I'm sure wasn't anything close to hitting, but more like tapping.

Posted by Mike Heenan (Member # 392) on 10-06-2003, 07:47 PM:

True, but it's interesting to see in the other stories, the "before" tapping, or hitting, hasn't been reported. I wonder if this really happened or not.

Posted by Martin Brooks (Member # 1269) on 10-06-2003, 10:22 PM:

While we're on the topic of endangered species, it was reported last week that Orangoutangs will be extinct in the wild within the next 10 to 15 years.

I think it's incredible that the Siegfried & Roy show employed 250 people. That probably means a salary roll of well over $7.5 million. Although I also read that the show was incredibly profitable for the Mirage.

Personally, I'm more inclined to support zoos than shows such as this. I think in the case of zoos, especially those that attempt to display animals in natural habitats, the trade-off of keeping some animals in confinement is worth the interest it generates in protecting animals in the wild.

I feel less good about animal "shows", which are completely artificial in nature. As well as the animals might be treated and fed, it is a completely artificial environment, even if the animals are not tortured to perform.

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 10-06-2003, 10:45 PM:

I want to see the video of the event.

Posted by Pravin Ratnam (Member # 1417) on 10-06-2003, 10:53 PM:

I wonder if this is just a ruse to give Roy an excuse to get more plastic surgery. Sometimes I wonder if Michael Jackson faked that hair burning thing to get straight hair implants.

Just kidding. Seriously, I feel bad for the guy. While it was fun making jokes about em, they havent done anything to deserve this. Hope he recovers.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 10-06-2003, 10:58 PM:

Ummm Martin, not to burst your bubble or anything...but Zoos are an "artificial" environment as well. Duh!

>>> Phil

Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 10-07-2003, 09:53 AM:

quote:
Although I also read that the show was incredibly profitable for the Mirage.

Here's just how profitable. From the Los Angeles Times. (registration required to view this site).

Closure of Siegfried & Roy Show to Hurt MGM Mirage's Profit
From Bloomberg News

October 7, 2003

MGM Mirage's annual profit may be cut as much as 10 cents a share because the company closed its Siegfried & Roy show after magician Roy Horn was attacked by a tiger Friday, Deutsche Bank analyst Marc Falcone said.

But the company's stock held up relatively well Monday: It eased 35 cents, or 1%, to $36.48 on the New York Stock Exchange.

Horn, 59, was bitten in the neck by a 600-pound white tiger during a performance at the Mirage hotel and casino in Las Vegas. Horn remains in critical condition, said Cheryl Persinger, a spokeswoman for University Medical Center in Las Vegas.

The show, featuring illusions with tigers and other animals, has been canceled indefinitely, MGM spokesman Alan Feldman said.

Siegfried & Roy's six weekly shows always sold out at the Mirage's 1,504-seat theater, Feldman has said.

Analysts estimated that MGM Mirage got less than half the revenue from the sale of the $110.50 show tickets. But the Mirage will lose restaurant, casino and retail revenue from guests who would have seen the show, Falcone said.

"It's been an outstanding and very successful show," Falcone said. He estimated that the loss of the show would cut the company's annual profit by 5 cents to 10 cents a share.

MGM Mirage had been forecast to post a profit of $1.49 a share in 2003 and $1.77 in 2004, based on the consensus estimates of analysts in a Thomson First Call survey.

The company gets two-thirds of its profit from its Las Vegas casinos, including the Mirage, Bellagio and MGM Grand.

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 10-07-2003, 05:33 PM:

They just can`t afford to close the show down! Here`s your chance to get into show business - "Siegfried and Paul"!!!!

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 10-08-2003, 01:44 AM:

I've been out here in Vegas the last few days and according to the local news Roy suffered tremendous blood loss form the accident.... enough too incur serious brain damage. They also said tonight that there is evedence he suffered a stroke as well.
Mark @ CLACO

Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 10-08-2003, 01:57 AM:

Huh. When I was your age, they didn't even HAVE orangoutangs. You'd go to most zoos, & they'd have a cage with an open door in the back cinder block wall, no orangoutang. The tour guides would say, "Oh, he must be asleep!" or "I guess he just doesn't want to come out today, but he was out playing all day yesterday!" in that irritating story-lady talking to kindergarteners voice. If you went to a zoo in the big city, they would have chimpanzees with their hair bleached out so that it was orange, put in these scaled-down habitats with tiny bushes, rocks, etc., and they kept the visitors farther back to mess with the scale by putting a stretch of land, a ditch, & a fence between. Sometimes they'd have a morbidly obese chimpanzee, & that would get closer to the correct proportions, but you could still tell. Especially when some guy would smuggle in a banana & throw it over into the habitat; the monkey would pick it up and the banana would be bigger than the monkey's head. Everybody knew it was a scam.

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 10-08-2003, 08:54 PM:

White tigers are not a species.
They're the result of a recessive gene in normal tigers. White tigers are effectively unknown in nature; because of their colour - and lack of camouflage - they can't hunt effectively and the occasional wild born individual would almost certainly die before maturity.
I have nothing against stage shows using animals, and S&R put on a good show. Their "we're saving this endangered species" shtick is just part of the show. Don't take it seriously. They breed and maintain the animals because they need them for their show, period.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 10-08-2003, 09:11 PM:

Sorry, but I don't believe that crap for a 1/2 a second. I've worked with them B4 on some show planning issues and implementations in Vegas and have seen their professional shows, facilities, and their philanthropic work towards ALL animals. True they need the animals for their show, and make/made mega-bucks, but their sincerely and honor for the welfare of all animals is beyond reproach.

Anyone who thinks different needs to do their research and become enlightened and/or should have work with them.

>>> Phil

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 10-10-2003, 08:50 AM:

Fair argument. Roy's interest in animals is well known, and he only entered the magic business after joining Sigfried after meeting him on a cruise featuring Sigfried's show. I don't doubt that the general philanthropy towards animal welfare from S&R has done a great deal of good.
The white tigers are another thing completely. These are a show prop, and regardless of how much Roy loves them they're still just a show prop. Inbreeding freak mutant tigers does NOTHING to help the continued survival of the endangered species, either the Bengal tiger (the S&R white tigers) or the Siberian tiger.

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 10-14-2003, 01:09 AM:

Well, now it's official. As of last Friday, one week after Roy was injured, the entire S&R crew has been terminated. Although MGM-Mirage says they will attempt to place these people, the reality is there isn't much out there to jump to right now. Steve Wynn has invited them all to apply at his new place (he is the one that originally hired them for the Mirage) but the new place won't open until mid-2004. Cirque de Soleil is advertising for crew for its new show at the MGM--maybe many of these people will end up over there (same employer). But that show isn't scheduled to start drag-in until February 2004. So it may be a cold winter for these folks--a rather unfortunate and abrupt ending to a wonderful 13-year run.

Roy is responsive, but remains in critical but stable condition.

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 03-31-2004, 11:25 AM:

Well as I type this, the Siegfried and Roy marquee is coming down after a 14 year run as a 'Vegas landmark in front of the Mirage. Can't see what's going to take its place yet--probably new artwork for Danny Gans, the Mirage's other headliner.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 04-01-2004, 11:03 AM:

quote:
Ticket Price $100.

My GHAWD! There's NO show I'd pay $100 to see -- not even if I could take a showgirl home with me afterwards (okay... maybe then)!

Posted by Brad Allen (Member # 470) on 04-01-2004, 02:23 PM:

A few years ago, my wife and I at her urging, saw the S&R show.
We were both very disappointed. The arrogance of the two made my skin crawl. And the "illusions"? Give me a break, who couldn't pull them off performing in a custom made venue.

Now, watching Copperfield performing on a concrete slab and pulling off his stunts is impressive.

Posted by Jeff Taylor (Member # 443) on 04-01-2004, 03:45 PM:

FWIW, I always take my crew out to Vegas for the Shopping Center leasing convention in May, and we try to entertain clients with dinner and a show at least twice--total of maybe 30 people. Forget about the cost, but there is virtually NOTHING worth seeing anymore. We've done Celine, the Blue Men suck, everyone's seen Wayne, etc, etc. This year we settled on two blocks of the underwater Cirque de Soleil at Bellagio, but it was by no means unanimous with the deciding factor being decent restaurants in the hotel. Where are all the old time headliners? Right, dead.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 04-01-2004, 03:56 PM:

I would like to have seen Sinatra, Martin, and Davis.

Posted by Dick Vaughan (Member # 540) on 04-01-2004, 04:02 PM:

Nancy,Steve and Bette ? [Confused]

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 04-01-2004, 05:00 PM:

Uh Dick, that would be Frank, Dean, and Sammy. [Big Grin]

How I wish I could work those acts again. Sadly the days of the star policy showroom with a big name headliner every two weeks are now largely over here. Accountants run the joints now, and entertainment is given relatively low priority and budget compared to the days when "the boys" ran things.

FWIW The Orleans still books those big name acts that are still performing. Of course it's not the same--they have aged to various degrees and the accountants dictate that the old 20-40 piece hotel orchestras be replaced by a couple of guys playing synthesizers and a drum machine. But hey, it's cheaper, and the marks, er, I mean customers seem to be just as satisfied. [Smile]

S&R were largely a hometown and home grown act--they hit it big here after years of performing as a specialty act within the older 'Vegas review shows like Lido de Paris at the Stardust, finally getting their own show first at the Frontier. In that tradition we now have home grown "headliners" like Clint Holmes, Danny Gans, and The Scintas. No one outside of 'Vegas has ever heard of these people. [Roll Eyes]

[ 04-01-2004, 08:18 PM: Message edited by: Paul Mayer ]

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-01-2004, 06:10 PM:

OT: Last time I was in Vegas (1995) we could not decide between Siegfried & Roy, and Cirque Du Soleil ("Mystere"). So we asked an employee at a Mirage gift shop to make a recommendation, and she said they were both really good shows, but CdS is "just amazing" and would be the better bet. We took the advice and were not disappointed.

My wife and I have since seen the Cirque show at Disney World ("La Nouba") twice and it's really good as well.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 04-01-2004, 07:44 PM:

It took me 2 weeks to figure out "Dark" was not a rock-group playing all over town. Whew! What a schedule those boy's had!

>>> Phil

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 04-01-2004, 08:01 PM:

Entertainer Clint Holmes went to my high school, Lake Shore Central in Angola, New York, graduating in 1964. I graduated in 1966. He often sang at school functions. Singer Marlene Ricci is from my home town too. [Cool]

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2002/Feb-22-Fri-2002/weekly/18131118.html

quote:
If her old-Vegas pedigree sounds similar to that of Harrah's Las Vegas headliner Clint Holmes, it's a small-world coincidence that a young Marlene Ricci took voice lessons from Holmes' opera-trained mother, Audrey, when she was growing up in Angola, N.Y.

http://www.lasvegas-nv.com/et/no013102.htm

quote:
Marlene sang her first song in public at the age of five when she went with her dad, Nick, to a local Moose Lodge in her hometown of Angola, New York. "My dad, who passed away in 1986, worked in a local steel mill and we (the family) would go to the lodge every week," she explained. Later she entered a talent contest singing "I don't Know How to Love Him," where she won $200.00 "That was it. I was determined to become a professional entertainer."

Guess who her mother, Bianca, hired to be her first vocal coach when she was 10 years of age? Audrey Helene Holmes. That's right the mother of another great entertainer who has his own room at Harrah's on the strip, Clint Holmes! "She was my only vocal coach until I was 16, when I decided to go for broke and begin a professional career."

Willis Carrier, the inventor of air-conditioning, also went to my high school.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 04-02-2004, 01:22 AM:

quote:
How I wish I could work those acts again.

Paul, you were on Sinatra's show?! Wow, how fantastic that must have been! I envy you.

This is one of my favorite pictures. It captures so well an era and a state of being; these guys were the embodiment of cool. I don't think anyone can hold a candle to them today, they were the acme.

Posted by Jeff Taylor (Member # 443) on 04-02-2004, 08:25 AM:

Paul: You mentioned the Scintas. I did catch them last year, and they were fine, but the funny thing is that they came from Buffalo and make a big deal out of it in their act. Unfortunately I now spend a lot of time there (rebulding a major mall with a 3-screen art cinema). I've asked around and NOBODY in Buffalo will admit to knowing them! Tim: As bad a film as it is, I think I've watched Ocean's 11 100 times (that print gets lots of Film-Guard!). It cracks me up to see the sets of the hotel lounges with the Home Depot paneling and cheap finishes, and how about those supposed main switchgear panels Richard Conte is supposedly hot wiring so the cage doors will open on blackout...they look like 30 amp residential panels! I've been in the mechanical spaces of the LV Hilton, and as old as it is you'd think you were in the boiler room of the Queen Mary.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 04-02-2004, 12:11 PM:

Jeff, I was going to mention Ocean's 11. I actually like that show - an over-the-top caper. [Big Grin]

Posted by Jeff Taylor (Member # 443) on 04-02-2004, 04:01 PM:

Yea, Tim, that shot you posted was right off the film--at the end when they all scatter after the money is "cremated". As Dino would say, "How lucky can one guy be, I kissed her and she kissed me, as the fellow once said, ain't love a kick in the head".

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 04-02-2004, 04:26 PM:

"...the room was completely black; I hugged her and she hugged back. Like the sailor said, quote, ain't that a hole in the boat!"

Yes, I thought it was a production still. You can see vans in the background. I like that, they walk past the Sands and you see their names on the marquee. I thought that was cool.

That you mention it, movies had more class back then. In accordance with the Production Code, they weren't allowed to get away with the scam; but in the remake with Clooney, they succeed. Two different movies. Although I like the new one tremendously, I prefer the original.

Posted by Jeff Taylor (Member # 443) on 04-05-2004, 09:01 AM:

...E-O Eleven!